ARMS AND ARMOUR THREAD
BAAARBARIAN EDITIOOON!!!
No civilization allowed!
>>43580523
>>43580544
>>43580446
>>43580575
>>43580721
>>43580817
>>43581073
That's one sci-fi looking helmet he's wearing.
>>43581281
are you saying visgoths were from space?
MAKES SENSE!!!new season of ancient aliens spawns
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/c3bswmt3eo863/Osprey
Atleast link the Osprey scans.
Knock knock
>Who's there?
CIVILISATION, MOTHERFVCKER.
>>43580543
This... doesn't seem right at all. I mean i know the vikings traveled quite far east but.. that looks more like a mongol who found a varangian helmet
Does anybody have any Polish Swords, Daggers, or other specifically Polish weapons?
>>43585158
This one's a Polish saber iirc
>>43585158
This one has a really good polish.
>>43580525
>>43580700
I love these books, don't know the name of them or where to buy them though.
We Tengri now.
>>43580523
I refuse to believe that a time travelling conquistador didn't introduce these to the celts/celtiberians.
>>43585450
Osprey Publishing. Does military history from east to west, Ancient to Vietnam. Historical Wargaming General has mediafires filled with pdfs of them.
>>43585319
>American education
YOU WANT MIRRION DORRAH? HAVE HORSE! FUCK YOU!
>came in expecting barbarians of the Conan variety
>get actual historical barbarians
o-okay then
>>43586812
Hey man, we can do both.
/tg always swings both ways.
>>43580446
>BAAARBARIAN EDITIOOON!!!
...why are there no images of Romans ITT then?
>>43588651
because you didnt look through the thread.
No civilization allowed? Well then I guess you can't have anything more advanced than this.
>>43589597
This is relevant to my interests. Care to post find place, date, context etc? Or atleast point me in the right direction of the publication.
wellp, I'm rock hard now
>>43589652
IIRC I grabbed it off of http://mis.historiska.se/mis/sok/sok.asp
Dated to "iron age", which I think in this case means up to the end of the Viking age. Dunno if they specified where it had been found, but Sweden seems somewhat likely, as it's the Swedish Historical Museums collections.
I'm failing to find the bloody thing again now though (and as glacial as the search result pages load for me, I'm not to tempted to keep looking), but here's one which wasn't too far off in general shape: http://mis.historiska.se/mis/sok/bild.asp?uid=74124
Found in Piteå parish in Norrbotten, only dating given is "medieval", which in Swedish history means 1066-1521. Given the similarities with the previous one I'm guessing we're looking at a style from around the late Viking age and a while forward from that.
>>43589795
Ah well, thanks anyway.
A friend and fellow re-enactor asked me to find examples of decorated Viking Age hand axes.
I was of course aware of the Mammen Axe (pictured here), and the Trelleborg axe although some sources seem to indicate this may have been a two-handed weapon. Most other decorated axes I have seen also appear to be broad-axes, though I have yet to see an illustration of the Rosenlund axe.
It seems like an under-researched topic considering the popular perception of vikings and axes.
>>43589954
Possibly related, there's this one. Don't really know anything about it though.
And this is supposedly the Rosenlund one, can't see any decorations though, but maybe something's in the (Norwegian) text.
http://www.mediafire.com/view/5r44enmq3ytvs2c/Nabo_fjende_og_forbillede_-_Danernes_for.pdf
>>43592335
Cheers KM, atleast its a lead I can cross-out.
Have a picture of a cross-axe head.
Interestingly this style of broad-axe head does not appear to be exclusively used by Christian scandinavians. Atleast one was found in a Pagan burial mound.
A trophy or perhaps just a good weapon, symbolism be damned, and you can imagine how nimble such an axehead would be when swung with two hands.
>>43592770
If it works. Plus, no first commandment to worry about.
So, with the context of being armed with a 1handed weapon and a shield, what was generally the most effective?
Sword and shield?
Axe and shield?
Mace and shield?
Spear and shield?
Also, why do people keep drawing halberd-users as wielding them 1handed, with a shield? You can't exactly do that, even if you were hypothetically strong enough to swing the polearm around with a single hand, it would be awkward as fuck, since the weapon isn't balanced for it
>>43593942
Depends on situation. Sword is good in general, spears have reach, mace is effective against armor, axe is effective against trees.
>>43593982
I've seen many videos of re-enactors fighting Sword&Board vs. Spear&Board, with the Sword guy using his shield to successfully bully the Spear guy, and get into his range -- the Spear guy couldn't easily choke his grip, since he didn't have 2 hands on the weapon. Is this more of an issue with shit re-enactors, or is this a consistently viable thing to do?
I mean, the Romans did a lot of work with shortsword+shield, but then again they had their javelins to take out the enemy's shields beforehand
>>43593942
Spears are a main battle weapon. Spear and shield is the most effective of all listed in group formation fighting, and most spears remain versatile and effective without the shield; there's evidence that scandinavian fighters in the viking age had a habit of shouldering their shields and taking their spears in both hands once formations broke. Of course, there's a lot of different lengths of spear, and each is going to contextualize differently.
The other three, between them, will largely be a matter of personal preference and the armor habits of the enemy. For pairing with shields specifically, however, I'd favor swords- they seem to have the best ability to fight around and make best use of the shield.
>>43594092
>they would shoulder their shields
source?
Swapping between 1handing and 2handing your spear on the fly sounds pretty awkward -- either the strap that's holding the shield is loose enough so that you can quickly throw it over your shoulder and get at it again (in which case it'd be thumping your back and legs), or it's so tight that you can't actually use the shield when it's not on your back
>>43593942
>>43593982
>>43594092
Sorry, should have specified. I'm creating a solo adventurer, so it's not like I have a dozen dudes to either side of me in a phalanx. Does this change anything?
>>43594008
The major problem with sword vs. spear in a re-enactment context is that the majority of combat systems to not allow to strike the head and sometimes not even the whole shoulder area.
It is no coincidence that many skeletons excavated from battlefields have extensive injuries to the face and neck. It is a large target zone, unprotected by a shield, where injury can be easily fatal or disabling.
Meanwhile in the modern world the swordsman can hug his shield to cover his body and deny a "legal" hit to the spearman, all the time leaving his head exposed.
That said, I am a member of Society that is (in)famous when it comes to using spears to great effect. They are a viable weapon in a duel against swords and of course are supremely suited to large battles.
>>43594092
Evidence for the use of slung shields and using spears two-handed is patchy at best. We know that it did happen but it is dwarfed by the usage of shield and single-handed spear. To say that any fighters made a habit of the practice on a regular basis is unfounded unless you have some textual evidence to back that up.
>>43594008
My experiences from more free medieval-weapon fighting also suggests that spear and shield isn't that good in 1v1. So i guess spear&shield was used for the formation fighting and some sort of sidearm was more preferred for the more individual styled combat?
>>43593942
>what was generally the most effective?
Odds are it'll be the one you feel the most confident with, as the morale boost may very well overpower whatever practical differences there are.
The scenario probably changes things up too, and on top of that we must remember that there's a loot of differences between different swords, etc. So sword A might work just as well as axe A, with both of them being superior to sword B and axe B. Then all of that changes as we change what other gear is used, what kind of shields are used, what enemy you ace, how many friends you have, etc.
And even past what someone thinks is the best, what objectively does work the best can differ from person to person too.
Long story short, "which weapon is the best" isn't really a question that can be given a straight up answer, even if fuzzied up a bit to "generally the most effective".
As for the halberd, artists seldom do a terrible lot of research into these things. Or even think very much about what they're doing. Know that "rhomboid tip" we see every now and then in fantasy illustrations? Thought about what it'd actually mean in 3D? I've tried drawing it here (as you can probably tell, I'm not a graphical designer by trade), with a diamond cross section you get a tip like that by simply doing a diagonal cut across, resulting in a rather asymmetric blade and an off-centre tip.
>>43594228
>>43594280
who is right?
>>43594228
This is also very true, not allowing to hit some locations of the body will greatly mess up testing or re-enacting. You mentioned using spears with great effect, were you talking about using the spears twohandedly or with a shield, singlehandedly? How long were the spears? Just a curious fighterfellow here.
>>43594164
Well, what kind of adventuring, and what kind of foes?
I wouldn't bring a polearm spelunking, but I wouldn't go up against a troll with just a short mace to batter his shins with.
On that matter, what system?
>>43594357
but what happens if you find a troll WHILE spelunking? Keep some spells handy to nuke it?
>>43594357
>implying that battering it's shins and arms wouldn't be a good tactic
it can't hit you if it's got broken elbows and kneecaps
>>43594402
Don't fight a powerful enemy in terrain that favours it if you want an easy fight.
>>43594457
If
>>43594348
Both, and many lengths. Spears of about 2.7 meters used with two hands and a shield slung on your back. These are more suited for battles than duels but can still be devastating in the right hands.
You also have spears of about 2.1 metres used one-handed with the shields held by the centre grip. These are great at both duels and battles, and are we believe the norm for actual historical combat in the period we cover.
However you can mix it up. Sometimes I like to use a 2.1 metre spear with both hands. These still outrange swords and axes but are more wieldy than the longer spears most associate with two handed use.
But then I do favour a number of unconventional tactics. My best trick is using a dagger (sometimes with a shield) to take out swords and spears by myself.
Pick your weapon, train hard and work as a team.
>>43594228
>>43594138
>shield shouldering
Little more to back me than vikingboos and the icelandic sagas, but they're sagas, so take that with as much salt as you may.
To the rest, I hold my point. I'd rather a spear than the other options, with one of personal preference as a sidearm. (Then the obligatory dagger, and knife.) Dismounted, a proper spear, mounted, a lance.
>>43594402
Knowing when and how to run the fuck away is a valuable skill to develop.
>>43594457
Maybe as a group tactic, but it's reach and strength are greater than mine, so getting cozy enough (only to hope that my first blow shocks the creature at all) would be insanely dangerous. He did say solo-adventurer.
I'd rather a halberd to cut the ankle/knee and then stab the throat from a more comfortable reach.
Well now I'm imagining what weapons would evolve if people had to frequently combat large humanoids.
Pikes with a barbed hook, so that a squad of men might all spear then tug on the same limb and drag the beast to heel?
>>43594164
It really depends on the system. For instance, in DnD 3.5 I'm a big fan of morningstar with a dagger for backup. That way, you can get all 3 major types of damage, all without needing any martial weapon proficiency. But that's a call based on game mechanics, which may not apply to you. So, whats the system?
>>43594664
I'll respect any man who understands the power of a spear and a knife.
As I said, slung shields did happen, just fairly rarely. It does work though. Better with round shields than kites, especially the deeply curved flat-top style ones.
Good thread, have a Thracian.
>>43594664
>Well now I'm imagining what weapons would evolve if people had to frequently combat large humanoids.
Ballistae.
>>43594664
They do exist, they're called guns.
Unless your reality allows you to level up STR and DEX to superhuman levels, going in melee against giant creatures is pretty suicidal
