So, the Kickstarter for Shinobigami started recently, what are your expectation for this game?
Well I can't offhand recall another game where a character is intended to be played for a single evening, one adventure only. But I can see how it can be used to blast through an entire dramatic arc in one go and likely have bretty good time while at it. They tell next to nothing about the system however, so I'm not quite willing to put any money in.
>>43567138
Andy never releasing any of the reskins he promises
>>43567138
They should have used someone on the kikestart vid who actually know how to narrate. AND has a voice suited to it. Yeah yeah, good VAs cost money.
>>43567522
Plenty of Japanese systems are designed around very short campaigns.
>>43567138
>what are your expectation for this game?
Never being able to find players
So they're with a page order of replay first, rules next. That's pretty silly. I guess I'll just do as usual when example-of-play is first in any book. I check the TOC where rules proper begins and start reading there, and after I've finished with the rules I read the example - maybe.
Here though the replay is 2/3rds of the book. I'm not sure if I want to pay for so much wasted space.
>>43569159
That was the same thing I was thinking upon reading that--how is this okay? Why would I want to buy that?
>>43569273
Yeah, at best you're getting the rules twice. First in some play example format that won't really explain what the rules are, and then the same thing again, this time in proper rules format.
>>43567554
I would have preferred more Replay books translated instead......
>>43569156
Also this.
>>43567138
I'm expecting a system that manages PVP in such a way the players don't hate each other at the end.
>>43569273
That's how the game is sold in moon. They're just translating it as closely as is.
>>43570417
Make it as crunchy as possible? That should do the trick.
>>43569159
>>43571423
Yep, almost all TRPG books have a Replay with the rules.
So what are the most popular Japanese TTRPGs?
I got Double Cross 3.0 and Sword World 2.0. Any other interesting ones?
>>43571520
What are Double Cross and Sword World like in comparison to other kinds of systems? Is it worth playing them?
>>43571520
Also Ryuutama is pretty nice.
>>43571531
I haven't had a chance to play them. They both seem very gamey, kind of like playing a console JRPG. I guess no more so than D&D though. Like I said though that's just from a read through not play experience.
I got them at Akihabara to see what the language and style of Japanese RPGs is like. So I'm slogging through them in Japanese and the tiny print doesn't help. It is nice that they only cost like 8 bucks a pop though.
>>43571539
Cheers. Will give it a look.
>>43571602
Just like D&D huh? Well, I guess it probably does have some other niches to make it more interesting.
>>43571700
Sword World seems a bit meh kind of pen and paper Final Fantasy tactics, but Double Cross is a lot more interesting. It's not just like D&D, but powers are quite defined in what they do, much like spells in D&D. Though it doesn't need a grid or map, it seems to rely more on timing and combos than positioning in combat.
I haven't read the whole thing (because of moon runes) but I heard the English translation is a bit of a mess of errata.
Anon who did those GuP scans a couple of weeks ago here, my graphics card blew the hell up (okay, I -think- it was the graphics card), so I won't be able to get the rest of the scans in for another 2 or 3 weeks at a guess.
The back of the map actually has what appears to be printed rules, so I don't know what the other stuff I scanned was..
Anyway, I'll try and post some scans once things are up and running again.
>>43571531
Double Cross is basically "Do you like battle manga?" the game.
It runs toward the dark side of the Sugar/Edge spectrum, but it's well designed for it's mission.
>>43571989
The Chimera strain seems like Prototype the RPG.
>>43572010
No it doesn't, you're thinking of Exile. Chimera is Bloody Roar the RPG.
>>43571763
Double Cross isn't being supported anymore, either; the person responsible for publishing it in English said something about health problems.
>>43571899
Thanks brah.
>>43571539
Seconding Ryuutama; it's a much simpler game that's actually pretty reminiscent of early Dragon Quest vidya, what with "How do I get from point a to point b safely if I can only carry so many things?"
>>43572022
Oops got them mixed up.
>>43572010
the entire thing is Prototype the RPG, except they use Prototype as a backstory for the XMen
>>43569377
Actually the replay part does explain the rules in a pretty straightforward way (there actually isn't much to them; the game's framework is really light, and most of the crunch comes in the form of individual character abilities rather than "and this is how you resolve this really specific situation").
Thinking of the replays in the Saikoro Fiction books as just an "example of play" is selling them short, though. It's a full game session, and the point is that it's just a straight up entertaining read. There's a point in the second book's replay that actually made me tear up when I got to it. If you like storytimes or actual play podcasts then it's the kind of thing that will appeal to you.
>>43572254
Replays make about as much sense as watching Let's Plays on youtube. Which is, not a whole lot.
>>43572293
Hey, I like replays. The difference between a replay and a Let's Play is that the Let's Play is for a game that never changes. With replays, the story is unique for every session and group. That, plus I love reading a good narrative.
>>43572293
I used to feel the same way, but save for the script format, it's not really all that different than reading any other books.
I was scrolling through Japanese fans' reactions when the English version was announced, and most of the comments weren't, "Now the rest of the world gets to play Shinobigami!" but instead "Now the rest of the world gets to know about Genzou!" one of the characters who appears in the replays played by SF and fantasy author Miyazawa Iori.
I understand that it's not everybody's cup of tea, but I'd expect that for people who are curious about Japanese gaming culture in general, it's going to be pretty neat to actually see translated replays.
>>43567138
That I can still, with the correct setup, be the cause of every good and/or horrible thing that has ever happened to a character in their entire life.
>>43572450
What translated replays are out there, for any game?
I'd definitely play the meme-JTTRPGs, like MAID, Nechronica, and Magical Burst. They sound extremely fun.
>>43567522
>I can't offhand recall another game where a character is intended to be played for a single evening, one adventure only.
Tenra Bansho Zero. Also translated by Kotodama Heavy Industries.
>>43569156
So, so true.
>>43572293
They both make sense. Proper replays even more so than Let's Plays.
It's one thing to read through a rulebook and another thing entirely to use the rules at the table.
Now, if you're an experienced GM you might find that entirely unnecessary, but if you're not, these things let you see what the system looks like in action. Replays let you skip all the inaction and banter of a Let's Play, which makes it less of a time investment.
>>43572533
One of the Call of Cthulhu replays is fan translated. That's it until Shinobigami comes out.
>>43572527
I've been trying to put together a character build in this vein. There are a lot of "that's a real dick move" abilities in the game, since that's part of what the game is about. It's certainly possible to screw people over pretty hard, if that's your thing, but it's just as likely to come back and bite you in the ass if you aren't careful. You have to pick your fights carefully.
>>43572539
I'd play Maid. Why the fuck not.
Played a decent chunk of Magical Burst in my time. It's not a very good game. There are some interesting concepts in some of the editions, but overall the execution is poor. Also it isn't Japanese.
Never paid much attention to Nechronia.
Also I'm not a huge fan of Double Cross for various reasons, but not so bad that I wouldn't take another shot at playing it. I wouldn't want to run it though.
>>43572583
Works best if you're every good thing that's ever happened to them yeah, but just endlessly reusing the retcon power to do that is just too hilarious to NOT do.
>>43572583
There is an epub/pdf version of the Replay? I've tried to make it in the past, but the i've only made a mess......
>>43572546
>Now, if you're an experienced GM you might find that entirely unnecessary, but if you're not, these things let you see what the system looks like in action
In Shinobigami's case, I think this is particularly true, and not just for GMs, but for players as well. The game is incredibly GM-light, and most of the narrative agency is on the players themselves. The GMs job is primarily to create the framework for an adventure, and then pretty much kick back and watch the players go to down on it however they like once the game itself starts.
Most people pick up on it pretty quickly, but for gamers who are used to being fed the game almost entirely through the GM (i.e. the GM describes where I am, the GM tells me what to roll and when), it can be somewhat jarring at first.
>>43571763
>but I heard the English translation is a bit of a mess of errata.
>>43572038
>Double Cross isn't being supported anymore
So, as someone vaguely interested in Shinobigami: should I be worried about this happening to Shinobigami?
>>43572293
Let's plays makes sense in that it's always fun to see someone skilled play games. Also, there are times when the game is unavailable to you but still interests you.
>>43572822
I wouldn't worry too much about it. Tenra and Ryuutama are both pretty top notch, and Andy and Matt seem pretty dedicated to stepping back and doing more in promoting and supporting all three of them once Shinobigami goes to print.
>>43572675
How do you encourage players to create their own adventure?
>>43572990
Encourage characters with strong pathos, I suppose. You need characters who are naturally driven towards their own goals.
>>43572990
When prepping a Shinobigami scenario, the GM basically has to come up with a general outline or backstory, a Prize which is central to the scenario, and secret mission for each PC.
Ostensibly, usually everybody is out to get the prize, but their secret missions might be something different, like actually destroying the prize, defeating another character, forming a specific emotional bond with another character, etc... A secret might also reveal that the Prize isn't really what anybody thought it was, that another character is carrying the real Prize, or stuff like that.
Play works in a series of short scenes, each player getting their own in turn where they decide what they want to do, primarily investigating other characters to learn their secrets or forming emotional bonds with them. During your scene you choose who you want to go after, where it takes place, and just the overall content of what's happening. So as you slowly learn who the other characters are and what they're really after, you slowly piece together the truth of what is really going on.
But since you never know who the players are going to focus on or what information they're going to learn and in what order, even the same scenario can play out very differently depending on what choices the players make, or on their character builds.
It gets compared to Werewolf (the party game, not the White Wolf RPG) a lot, because part of the game is about having to guess who's doing what and why, and depending on your guesses the outcome of the game could be totally different; you might find out that the person you thought was an ally was actually out to get you, or vice versa, for example. And then maybe, by the time you think you really do have everything figured out, it might be too late to do anything about it.
So how is the combat system?
>>43573176
Tight and crunchy.
At the beginning of each round, each character secretly chooses their initiative score (from 1-6); the higher the number you choose, the faster you go, but that number also becomes your threshold for a crit fail (on 2D6).
There are a bunch of different attack abilities you can take, from the simple to the kind of outlandish. Each one has a Range (which is determined by the number of spaces on the battle sheet, i.e. the difference in your initiative scores) and a Cost. More powerful or more versatile attacks usually have a higher cost, and the total cost of all abilities (offensive and defensive) used in a round can't be higher than the initiative score you chose.
So you basically have to make all these tradeoffs and choices; do I want to go first, but risk a crit fail? What number will my opponent choose, so that I can actually hit them with my attack? And if someone has a powerful attack with a really high cost that you want to avoid, you might want to choose a low number, just to stay out of range, but then you end up going last in combat as well, so it's a risk you have to take.
>>43572533
The usual Anon translator came by and dropped off "Monotone Museum"'s translation including the Replay recently so there's one more to add to the list.
He should really gain some sort of identity on the web somewhere because I think most people would miss his stuff if they don't check /tg/ daily.
>>43572822
Shinobigami is done by different people who have so far been consistent with their work, if a little slow.
Now, Meikyuu Kingdom...
>>43572822
>So, as someone vaguely interested in Shinobigami: should I be worried about this happening to Shinobigami?
Naw, Kotodama Heavy Industries is pretty on point with errata; they actually held a contest for Ryuutama. The Kickstarter backers for it were given an advance copy of it on .pdf, and told to go nuts finding errors. I can't remember what the winner got, though
Ver. Blue Amusement was a bit more reserved when interacting with their community.
>>43573120
Does this mean that a typical scenario in Shinobigami is all about trying to grab the Prize?
>>43574016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO2Oi6GQzWM
>>43567138
It's KotoHI, so I expect it to take a year longer than expected to actually come out, but for translation quality to be top notch. Also, KotoHI's two for two on picking good games to translate, so Shinobigami should be pretty fun.
>>43572665
Super dirty HTML -> PDF conversion. Sorry, probably looks like shit.
Any japanese systems that do interesting things with Experience points? I was reading Double Cross and I like the idea of having xp tied to the player and if a character dies you just roll up a new one using the points you got from your last one.
>>43575487
I've always been fond of how Meikyuu Kingdom directly addresses the old issue of "What level do new characters start at?" by making it explicit that, no, if you want to start at the average level of the party, you need to build a facility specifically to let you do that. As well as having facilities that let you make new characters out of captured monsters or stuff like that. I'd love to find a bunch of people to do a big West Marches style campaign using it.
Since Shinobigami can be PvP, it has variable experience based on what you managed to accomplish per session, as well as "each player chooses one other character who impacted them the most and they get an extra XP for each person that chooses them." So you might still pile on the XP even if your character failed, if the rest of the players thought you did some really exceptional roleplaying or whatever.
It's pretty refreshing to see games that still embrace disparate leveling, but maybe that's just because I grew up on games with variable XP tables and individual rewards.
>>43575849
>because I grew up on games with variable XP tables and individual rewards.
Got some names?
>>43572539
Nearly finished with a year, maybe two year-long campaign of Nechronica, though delays probably lengthened it.The system is pretty damn solid, only one or two arguments over rules in the entire campaign.
>>43573500
>Monotone Museum
Here's the download link: http://www.mediafire.com/download/di0czycni93lr0b/Monotone_Museum.zip
>>43575174
Thanks, it will do.
>>43577413
For al that Nechronica has a solid system, I feel it should ALWAYS be mentioned that the Horn and Meat Snake parts should frankly just not be allowed on the same character. Those endless attack chains, holy shit.Also worth treating with caution: builds using Gauntlet with 2 AP melee/unarmed parts, Dance of Death on gunners, and anyone running Wire Reel who knows how Rapids work.
>>43578705
Excuse me, sirs, but I seem to have mistyped slightly.Dance of Death is just a basic once-per-round free reroll, and it's fine. It's Drama of Death that you need to watch out for, since a gunner with that and Lullaby can get crazy AP efficiency as long as they put in the effort to always attack on a count when a teammate does.
>>43572539
I've played all of those other then burst. I also GMed a Nechronica for a few months before leading to the players near the end telling me I freaked them the fuck out forever now after those games.
>>43579605
What kind of campaign did you make to have them react like that?
>>43579743
Seconding this. That's a storytime you should be telling.
>>43579743
They asked me for a freaky game. I basically started watching Hellraiser while sleep depraved and making up the plot points in that state.
It's amazing the mileage you can get out of Savants man. Along with just the necromancer concept in general.
>>43573500
Has there been any activity at all from Laternworks Unlimited?
As far as I'm aware, they just made the announcement at Spiel Essen and then vanished off the face of the earth.
>>43580249
Kind of makes me interested in Shinobigami now that I think on it. I love paranoia in paper and pen games. You can get people to do a lot of crazy things with just the mood of the scene and a little odd action.
>>43572293
Let's Plays are for people like me who enjoy seeing other people playing, but don't really like gaming themselves. Maybe it's weird but it seems usual enough forwomen.
>>43567138
How many charts should I expect from Shinobigami?
>>43582335
The main resolution mechanic has all of your skills arranged in a big chart.
The scene chart you roll on at the beginning of each drama scene as a location prompt. Likewise, battle scenes have a battlefield chart to determine the conditions of battle.
When you form an emotional bond, you roll on a chart to determine what type.
If you deal damage to a character in the form of a status effect, there's a chart for that too, though I think you usually get to just choose.
Those are the ones that actually get used in play. There are also charts for random names for characters, as well as one for picking random names for your ohgi, or secret technique.
It's not Meikyuu Kingdom levels of charts, but I do think that the fact that, I'll say again, the main resolution mechanic is one big chart, makes up for some of that.
Threads like this make me sad because they remind me that whenever I want to play a JTTRPG that looks pretty sweets, it's usually never translated and great, half-translated then abandoned or fully translated and shit
>>43582885
Which games fall into what categories, out of curiosity?
>>43583027
Log Horizon will never be finished
>>43582885
>wow, these Japanese RPGs look pretty cool, maybe we could give one of these a shot after our next campaign!
>o-oh, everybody already knows how to play D&D so they don't want to learn something new?
Every single time.
>>43583027
Well, Nechronica got abandoned which kinda sucked as, way back when, I finally got my playgroup to buy into it and convince them it wasn't magical realm. I know it's passable and functional right now, but I'd like to see it finished one day. Double Cross apparently has been dropped as well, though I'm pretty sure someone else has already said that. Maid is, honestly, pretty fucking shit in my book.
>>43583176
>Not liking maid.
>>43583114
This.
>>43572539
I'd back the fuck out of a Nechronica translation.
>>43583520
>liking Maids.
This is why we can't have nice things, anon.
>>43572989
Will Kotodama release supplementary books for Ryuutama? It's the only thing preventing me from buying the core
>>43583713
>Decide to look up if there had been any progress on Nechronica after a year
>This thread is the most recent mention of it at all
>Not a bit of progress, shit's still been dropped all together
Fuckin disappointing. How much cash do I need to throw at an indiegogo or something for this shit?
>>43583795
Maybe we could beg the guys at Kotodama who did Ryuutama to do it?
>>43583804
Anything's worth a shot at this point.
>>43583804
Even if they actually wanted to do it, which I don't think they have much if any interest in, it would be years before you ever saw anything of it. Tenra took around a decade to actually get out, their Ryuutama translation was around for probably at least 5 years before the book ever came out, and they've been working on Shinobigami for at least the past 3.
>People actully thinking there is a publisher with enough balls to translate "Zombie lolis are murdered while necromancers laugh." The game.
>>43581346
Dead silence.
Off the record, he showed up on forums to go "We're still working on it... really slowly!"
In practice, guess it's gonna be like a decade or so IF it ever happens.
>>43577256
Like every pre-3.0 edition of D&D?
I gave a look to this blog: >http://d66roc.wordpress.com/
about TRPG, unfortunately is no longer updated.
I liked in particular this article:
>https://d66roc.wordpress.com/2011/05/16/saikoro-fiction-the-japanese-world-of-darkness/
The idea of a WOD type japanese TRPG universe is very nice (Shinobigami is part of it btw).
>>43586384
Kind of a shame many of these "JTRPG" blogs are dormant but then again, usually it's because their creators are the ones actually bringing them to English now.
>>43568656
I heard japanese roleplayers are huge dorks and play exclusively with random groups at conventions
>>43583073
The 7-Sided Workshop guys announced a second book they're putting out for Log Horizon TRPG, which'll contain info for CR11+ PCs and challenges worthy of them. Even gave a preview of brand new class skills for each class. Slightly disappointing because they appear to be re-printing some Celdesia Gazette material, but there WAS new content, so perhaps there will be renewed interest.
>>43587881
Never heard that one.
Shinobigami sounds kind of cool. Does anyone have the pdf in Japanese? It's probably rubbish for practice since it sounds like the kind of thing that would have all kinds of convoluted kanji plays but I'm curious to try anyway.
>>43588036
The only actually complex kanji you'll find are in the ninpo names; a lot of them can be really flowery and abstract, or refer to martial arts technique names with long histories (and those all have furigana so they're easy to look up anyway). I find that game rules actually make pretty decent practice for a beginner-intermediate learner, since they're very repetitive and self-referential, and much more straightforwardly written.
>>43587881
RPGs in Japan being played primarily at conventions is true, but it has nothing to do with whether some of them might be dorks or not.
The main issue here is that visiting someone else's home in Japan is quite a big deal compared to the West, so just getting together for a regular game isn't that easy.
>>43588036
There are no pdfs of Japanese TRPGs.
Or at least they're exceedingly rare, because publishers are stuck in the past/scared shitless of pdf piracy.
>>43588115
>There are no pdfs of Japanese TRPGs.
There are plenty.
>>43588206
I need some evidence on that.
In the form of pdfs, of course.
>>43588115
>visiting someone else's home in Japan is quite a big deal compared to the West
Are you sure? Because the entryway seems to be treated like a public space, neighbours and mailmen will just step right in and holler for you if it isn't locked.
>>43578705
I can't help but feel oddly proud at myself for having noticed the broken potential of Gauntlet shenanigans when building a character. Romanesque with One's Many Charms, Gauntlets and Assassin's Blade for 1 AP 3 dmg + chain 1 rapid attacks. I was really curious to see if this would work like I think it would.Also, a 2 AP 3 dmg chainsaw
Sigh, I really wanted to play Nechronica,. but my group has got me stuck DMing D&D 3.5 for like the past five years and I swear I can't convince them to play anything else. The best I could do was a one-shot of Cthulhu, once (at least they liked it and are willing to try it again, but just one-shots). Are there any good online games of it?
Just out of curiosity, how do they play RPGS in Japan? I've heard stuff like Call of Cthulhu being extremely popular and that they tend to favour premade, one shot games and characters to long term development.
>>43588115
Well, does anyone have a scan, then?
I came up empty myself, so I'm quite prepared for the answer to be no, but it can't hurt to beg.
>>43588521
Just old unsupported games that no longer have official owners, basically.
Ryuutama is the big one, only because the company that published it didn't care anymore, and the author wanted to share it:
http://www.mangaz.com/book/detail/43101
If you search that site for "TRPG", you can find some other games, but again they're pretty much all old games no one plays or (money-wise) cares about. There are some gems in there, though:
http://www.mangaz.com/title/?query=TRPG&submit=
Like the old version of Metalhead (SF RPG), the original Tenra Bansho (not Tenra Bansho Zero, that has all different rules; but there's lots of art to steal in those books), Piyopu RPG manga, etc. I thought I saw more there earlier, maybe a few were taken down. But the rest all share a few things in common:
Uploaded by author
No longer possible to make money off them/these versions (ex the companies that published them collapsed or reformed)
Mostly really old. Ryuutama's the only one from the last decade there, I think.
>>43588635
Ah well. Thanks anyway, anon. Maybe I'll find something nice there.
>>43588635
Oh wait I might be full of shit. I just did another simple google for "TRPG PDF" in J-Goog, and found some new info.
1) A website that lists all the RPGs with electronic versions... often just a simple TXT/HTML file, sometimes PDF, but mostly indie games. Like, 20 "published" games, and about 100 indie games. Still, it's something.
http://jinriki.tumblr.com/post/60355051949/%E7%84%A1%E6%96%99%E9%85%8D%E5%B8%83%E3%81%95%E3%82%8C%E3%81%A6%E3%81%84%E3%82%8Btrpg%E3%83%AB%E3%83%BC%E3%83%AB%E3%83%96%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%81%AE%E4%B8%80%E8%A6%A7
And here is a FIRST! An actual electronic PDF version of a Japanese RPG for sale, while the book is available. It's for the Japanese version of Paranoia, and can be yours for the low cost of $45 USD. Aka, "this is why we can't have nice things"
http://fanblogs.jp/paranoiabuy/archive/44/0
>>43588115
>>43588206
If I'm not wrong - these TRPGs have scans floating around the web, albeit not legal ones...
Meikyuu Kingdom (both Core books)
Sword World
Log Horizon
Arianrhod 2E
Grancrest (though this one has a fan translation that you might as well use)
Metallic Guardian (Incomplete)
>>43588115
why not buy them from bookwalker? you pretty much can rip them into epub and convert to pdf if you want:
http://bookwalker.jp/tag/515/TRPG/
I played a session of Shinobigami last weekend, and had a question for any anons who may speak the moon tongue or have actually played more than one session.
How does character advancement work? Ours were all premades, so I never got a chance to check the character generation/advancement rules.
>>43588823
>scans floating around the web, albeit not legal ones
And that is exactly the issue I was referring to.
In most cases, those aren't even good scans.
>>43588851
I have yet to spot a single RPG in there. All of the books I checked are just replays.
>>43589030
Okay, one, the game specifically allows you to "re-spec" between sessions; you can change your skills, your ninpo, and your ohgi to whatever you want. Natch, since, as I'm sure you can guess after having played, if you play the same characters and your game is PvP heavy, you won't WANT the other players knowing exactly what stats you have.
Second, XP rewards:
1 XP for sticking to your clan's objective
1 XP for surviving until the end
1 XP for "roleplaying," namely sticking to your conviction (alignment, basically) and your emotional bonds throughout the game
1 XP if you end the session with a Prize
1 XP for each player who votes you as having the most impact on them (I mentioned this earlier in this thread, I think)
3 XP for completing your mission
You level up at 10/20/50/100 XP
At each of those you get one additional ninpo
At 20 and 100 you get both one additional skill and one additional ohgi
There are also lists of edges and flaws with varying costs that you could spend your XP on (or conversely, get extra XP from taking in the case of flaws).
>>43571520
TBZ
>>43571520
Tenra Bansho Zero, yo.
>>43589240
Huh, I really need to update when I've left a window open for so long.
Hive mind?
>>43589143
Ok, another question for you oh wise anon. What's the fucking point of secrets versus missions? The way it was set up for us either they were basically the same thing, or they directly conflicted. In addition, the game got to the point where everyone had an emotional bond with someone, so when one character learned a secret suddenly everyone knew it. That can't be how the rules work, right?
>>43575487
In TBZ if you acquire too much XP your turn into a crazed demon monster NPC.
>>43589718
Information sharing doesn't chain. If someone learns a secret and you have a bond with them, you learn it too, but it DOESN'T bounce to people that have bonds with you. Only those who have a bond directly with the person who uncovered it learn it.
As to your first question, I'm not sure I get what you're asking. Not every secret has to be a Big Freaking Deal, and sometimes your secret might be that you don't really have a secret, that everything you were doing was up front and straightforward (but not everybody else is going to know that). The point is either to keep people guessing, or to create tension for your character personally; for example, you might be cursed, and someone else's secret might tell the way to heal you, so you can say fuck it to the overt goal of the scenario and you're just trying to remove your curse. Maybe if it doesn't get healed in time, you have to kill another character, but they won't know that, or why you're suddenly against them at the end, if they don't know your secret.
I will say though, I don't think that's a great explanation either to what you're probably asking. If there's one thing I struggle with with Shinobigami, it's coming up with good scenarios and secrets for them. When I see them work well, I get it, but I'm not very good at letting that carry over to coming up with ideas on my own.
>>43588115
Don't they also play at game stores? I remember a thread about some guy visit a game store in Japan and IIRC they had karaoke style booths for groups to use.
>>43589837
Thanks for clarifying on the information chain, that explains a lot. That does resolve part of my consternation with secrets versus missions.
I guess another way to ask is between a Secret and a Mission, is there a given priority between the two, or does the player choose?
Captcha, I dunno if macaroons count as cookies.
>>43590152
If your secret lists your "true mission" (or if it lists a condition under which it might change, or something like that) then it should supersede the public one.
Alternatively, of course, you don't have to always play Shinobigami to win. I almost hesitate to bring this up, but I think that, because of the typically adversarial and episodic nature of many Shinobigami sessions, it's actually a game where "But it's what my character would do" can be a pretty acceptable way to play (as long as you aren't just doing it every time because you're actually some kind of anti-social contrarian asshole who thinks it's funny to try to ruin games), assuming that it would actually make for a better story. Since many scenarios don't have the typical "party cohesion" factor that makes this a problem in other games, it's not really all that disruptive.
>>43590275
Ok, so then one last question. You mentioned a public mission, but when we played we had the secret which could be learned by forming a bond, and then the mission which we didn't reveal until after the game. Was that the correct way to do that?
And thanks again for your help. I really enjoyed the session I played, it was just a bit confusing.
>>43590339
You should have a public mission, one that everybody gets to hear during your introduction and which is the ostensible goal of the scenario, at least at the start.
For example, in one of the sample scenarios on the Japanese website, someone is about to launch a nuclear missile at Japan, and everybody's mission is to stop the launch; that's the premise with which the game starts, just as everybody gets kicked out the back of an airplane to HALO drop into the ICBM base.
But then the character's secrets are all things like (and these spoilers are because I imagine this scenario might show up in English at some point, so they're real actual spoilers),"Find this renegade ninja and defeat them,""Recover the missile's special warhead,""Make sure that the missile launch actually succeeds,"and stuff like that.
So a character's true mission, if it's different than the one that everyone gets to hear during the introduction, would be part of their secret.
>>43590463
Oh and of course, there's no one right way to play any game, I'm just speaking from my experience with the game. So if you have fun playing some way, great. If you half have fun, then change the half you didn't to something you think will be fun. This is what roleplaying games are supposed to be about, in the end.
And while everybody tends to make a big deal out of the PvP, adversarial, one-shot nature of Shinobigami, you can play as a coherent, allied party, as part of a campaign, too. I would almost like to try to run a game like the early episodes of Naruto, with 3 ninjas in training and one instructor, for example. Your secrets don't necessarily have to be things that put you at odds or not trust other characters; it might be that you have a crush on another character, and you want to make them like you. Or to earn the praise of your instructor, who thinks that you're a slacker or useless. So you could all play out some other traditional adventuring party story, but your personal goals are all about changing what types of bonds you have with each other. I'd actually like to hear more stories of games like this, once the book actually gets into people's hands.
>>43590463
>>43590542
Ok, right on. Thanks for the detailed answers and for putting up with my ignorance.
>>43591137
>ignorance
It's not like there are very many (English-speaking) people who know all that much about the game yet. And I think it's a super peachy game, so I enjoy talking about it anyway.
Also, other games like Hunter's Moon (http://www.bouken.jp/pd/hm/) seems pretty fun.
The most recent from Saikoro Fiction, DeathKillBusiness (http://www.bouken.jp/pd/kd/) looks insane.
I'm gonna check some replay on nico douga.
>>43592605
>the most recent
The most recent Saikoro Fiction game is Beginning Idol, and Kancolle before that. KDB is several years old at this point.
Speaking of things looking insane, I'm really curious about Insane, a "Multi-genre Horror RPG." Surely we don't need more horror RPGs, but it also uses a secret mechanic like Shinobigami, and a SAN mechanic, so I feel like it could be the kind of game where your PC snaps and ends up trying to kill everyone else, or something like that.
>>43592605
>Hunter's Moon
Same system as Shinobigami? Because what seems like skill section looks the exact same.
>Beginning Idol
I've had no idea -.-'
>Insane
Just found this replay: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25303594
>>43592828
Yep, All the Saikoro Fiction games have a similar system.
BTW, looks like they've made a crossover game between Hunter's Moon and Blood Crusade (http://www.bouken.jp/pd/bc/ - Hunters vs Vampires) called Blood Moon (http://www.bouken.jp/pd/bm/) .
>>43592828
All the Saikoro Fiction games share the same resolution system and the scene structure, but beyond that the games themselves can differ pretty radically. The skills themselves differ between all the games; whereas Shinobigami is about ninja abilities, for example, Card Ranker's skills are all different "card types" in the fictional collectible card game around which the game is focused. Kancolle uses a mix of personality traits, hobbies, interests, and naval skills. One whole category of Beginning Idol's skills is, seriously, character height.
>>43593002
I'm curious, in what manner of action rolls does character height come up in?
>>43593002
Does Card Ranker involve playing deadly serious Children's Card Games while making up (in game) rules on the fly?
>>43593409
>deadly serious Children's Card Games
On motorcycles, yes.
>>43593409
The official replay adds motorcycles, I hear.
>>43593466
>>43593474
but is Bullshitting a skill?
Can I break flotation rings and destroy moons?
>>43593551
Bullshitting is a valuable PLAYER skill in most Saikoro Fiction games. You don't need to roll anything to bullshit, that's the whole point of the games, coming up with the craziest and most entertaining shit you can think of.
>>43593625
>Bullshitting is a valuable PLAYER skill
Truer words were never written on /tg/
>>43592605
>>43592791
What are the chances of seeing these in English? They seem really interesting.
>>43594448
Pretty much zero, unless someone gets to work on a fan translation.
Kotodama HI is tied up in Shinobigami, Ewen works on his own stuff, Laternworks Unlimited is allegedly working on MYK at a glacial pace and VBA is completely out of the picture.
>>43594687
Ver. Blue had such promise, then they upped and died. Shame.
>>43594884
I wouldn't exactly call horrible layout, spotty translation, no proofreading and inconsistent errata "promising".
>>43592791
>uses a secret mechanic like Shinobigami, and a SAN mechanic, so I feel like it could be the kind of game where your PC snaps and ends up trying to kill everyone else, or something like that
Can you say "The Thing"?
>>43595179
Honestly part of me just wants to buy it now, hack its sanity mechanic into Shinobigami, paint a little bit of L5R on top of it using the Sengoku-era rules, and run a Shadowlands survival horror game.
>>43595179
God I love that movie. I'd pop such a raging sadism boner as a GM for that game.
>>43595016
No, but at least they were actually doing shit.
>>43570022
Also a Ninja Slayer setting wouldn't be too bad to see.
>>43598512
You'd barely even need to change anything.
>>43595743
Emphasis on "shit".
I know I'm probably fairly alone with this opinion, but I'd rather wait a few years extra if it means someone competent works on it.
If someone who fails at the basics ties up the rights to a system, what good does it do?
>>43588823
Tenra Bansho Zero, Double Cross...
>>43583520
Maid is a nice idea, but mechanically it's the sort of system that you have fun in spire of, not because of.
>>43572038
The hell it's not! There's been no announcement saying the line is dead.
>>43604048
Well, VBA certainly is.
And I don't see anyone picking up where they left off.
>>43603269
Ryuutama.
>>43604048
Fine, indefinite hiatus.
In name it's different, but when due to failing health, it's pretty much death sentence.
>>43604094
Best we have is the G+ community picking up the slack for VBA, and...well, there's only so much rag-tag fans of an english release can do.
>>43604614
So the line is effectively dead, regardless of announcement.
I think I want to run a Guilty Gear game using Shinobigami. It's pretty much the perfect system for it; crazy character builds, lots of combat-focused powers, and even the structure of the game with its brief character interactions interspersed with fight scenes feels like playing the game in story mode.
>>43594687
I don't know any Japanese, but I do have money sometimes. If anybody here can drum up translation support for anything, I can try to provide scans.
>>43606327
But how will you recreate the awesome music?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBUWLMbuTgo
>>43606688
Scans are the least of our problems.
So, if I understood it right, during the main phase one primarily choose between either combat or drama scenes. While combat scenes are obvious, in drama scenes one further has to choose between certain actions, like trying to figure out someone's secret, trying to create an emotional bond, and probably a few others. So the GM does not ask "what do you want to do?" but instead "your actions are A, B, C and D. Choose one."
>>43608590
Yeah, pretty much, the GM doesn't even really need to ask you anything. You say, "Okay, it's my scene, I'm doing X." After designing the scenario, the GM's job is mostly to control significant NPCs to some extent, and to insert "master scenes" at various points between the players' scenes. These might be a simple expository cutscene, maybe a fight with an NPC. Sometimes they're simply something like, "You each get to make a roll and if you succeed, you learn one character's location," so the players have a chance to learn them without spending one of their own drama scenes on it.
And also, the other options for a drama scene are to heal (still requires a check), or to learn someone's location (in order to start a combat scene, you need to know the target's location, so you can "get the jump on them" essentially).
>>43608844
Ok, now I'm starting to understand how the game manages to keep the story within the focused action it requires. Because when the stated goal is a four-hour complete story arc with five scenes a character (intro + 3 mains + climax) I think there pretty much needs to be a framework in place so the whole thing doesn't spiral out of control.
>>43609032
Also, I gather the rest of the Saikoro Fiction series plays in the same manner, with actions suited to the story?
>>43609032
Yeah. From an underlying mechanical standpoint, that part of the game gets driven forward as you fill in those boxes in the lower left-hand side of the character sheet, and you have a limited number of turns to do so (ideally, not everyone will have a bond with every other character and know every other character's secret, but the hope is that they will learn enough to help them move towards their own personal goal). That part of the game is very board gamey, with its time limits, its notions of collecting resources, etc...
On top of that, of course, is the thematics of what's going on; who are these people, what are they after, how do I feel about them, and all that stuff that makes it a game about ninjas with secrets instead of high schoolers with secrets. Because of the way it's structured, it's not like a D&D dungeon crawl where each scene progresses linearly into the next one, one challenge after the other; it's more about, "There's an underlying story of what's going on that's already there, and as we play, the different pieces that make it up become clearer one by one."
What makes Shinobigami so interesting (at least in my opinion) for an RPG is that the resources you are managing are what you know about the story. Unlike a lot of other narrative RPGs, where you might have a limited ability to control the direction of the story directly, here some things are more set in stone, and you use your limited number of actions to choose which pieces you want to be able to see.
In other SF games like Card Ranker or Kancolle, your resources are more tangible and character-based; in some ways they are like really developed versions of random lifepath character generation systems, like in Traveller or Mechwarrior 3E, where you have these risk/reward decisions to make with each new roll. And then culminating in a big battle at the end to see how well you did.
>>43609737
> Strategy: Cooking
Kinda curious what kind of scene would call for this.
It sounds like this could be turned into a Cold War spycraft game with little effort, replacing ninja clans with CIA, KGB, MI6, Mossad et al.
>>43609849
Any scene where you can think to use it.
>>43610723
Can't think of anything but the ninjas deciding to iron chef their duel.
>>43610804
>Ninja Iron Chef
God yes.
>>43611163
> ninja arts that exclusively deal with cooking
one inch meat tenderizer punch
How does the system work in more cooperative versions like that monster hunter one? I guess stuff like secrets are out as they'd serve no point in cooperative action?
>>43612801
Yep, i don't think there secrets like Shinobigami in that one.
