>TV Shows
Already been done, was crap.

>books
Already been done, generally crap.

>video games
Actually pretty good track record with Bloodlines and those fun little HtR beat'em ups.

>>43566584
Though there was that one book with the hardcore necrophilia erotica. I emptied a few to that one.

Fresh from rpg.net

DaveB: Raising Wisdom in 2e is particularly (evil) thematic - you have to spend at least one story with "Increase my Wisdom" as one of your Obsessions, and then buy it with Arcane Experiences.

Which means trying to increase it actively slows your magical development.

>>43566584
>Actually pretty good track record with Bloodlines and those fun little HtR beat'em ups.

That Redemption is so often forgotten makes me sad. I really liked it.

>>43566543
>Something that's not just "GTA with vampires".

Another Deus-Exian RPG would be cool, but I would really like a management or strategy game.

For instance, something "Prince of the City" style. You are the Prince of the domain's vampires, recently come into Praxis. You have to assign the various positions in the city, determine Elysium, influence mortals to keep unlife good for your Kindred, placate the different Covenants/Clans and so on. You lose the game when you lose Praxis. Your Prince also has Character Traits (negative and positive) that influence gameplay. New ones can be "earned" during play.

>>43566665

I really do want a VtM Grand Strategy game that covers the entire timeline. That would be the best.

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>>43566665
>For instance, something "Prince of the City" style. You are the Prince of the domain's vampires, recently come into Praxis. You have to assign the various positions in the city, determine Elysium, influence mortals to keep unlife good for your Kindred, placate the different Covenants/Clans and so on. You lose the game when you lose Praxis. Your Prince also has Character Traits (negative and positive) that influence gameplay. New ones can be "earned" during play.

Your childer is disappointed you haven't given them a domain yet!

>I did promise her...
>If you can't carve your own place in the city then I won't hand over territory to a weak-willed lick, banishment!

http://theonyxpath.com/just-need-a-kick-to-get-started-monday-meeting-notes/
>Mage: the Awakening Second – Just waiting on a couple of stragglers and art is done.
>Promethean: the Created Second – Sketches and finals continue to roll in.
Glad to see Mage is pulling ahead again. I expect them to come out at roughly the same time, at this rate, anyways.
>NWoD 2 – At Paradox for approval.
Well, that's something.

>>43566584
>It's been done and I didn't like it so it can't be done again
And?

>>43566609
What's evil about it? Also, one STORY or one CHAPTER? Because I've played games where a story was all there was.

>>43566893
Do you seriously think a television showed based on Vampire: The Masquerade (and it would be cWoD for sure) would work?

>>43566893
>Also, one STORY or one CHAPTER
It's story, but there's no reason for that beyond Obsession mechanics so an ST could bump that down without really hurting the mechanics.

>>43566893
>I've played games where a story was all there was.
You've played games with a shit ST, then. A Story should last three or four sessions/chapters, roughly, and end the moment you achieve any kind of major goal.

EG, in my Werewolf game, we've had a few stories so far. The first was handling the Azlu infesting a nature locus in our territory, and then a whole story I missed out on involving a nature-death magath that looked like a giant deer or something like that. Now, we're arguably in the middle of a series of stories where we're dealing with the Hounds of the Field, and the first story in it ended last session when we took out a giant bee spirit abducting released patients from a mental hospital with a madness locus in it and found a book that seems like it's full of info about Lycaon-Ur.

So, how/why is it that each of the VtR clans get their own book, yet all the WtF tribes get crammed into one? Doesn't seem all that fair, though, granted, like 80% of the clan books was just random fluff. Still, I don't really feel the same sort of attachment to the tribes since almost their entire characterization all revolves around how they fight shit and how they think they're so tough. I don't suppose it gets any better in 2e? Or should I perhaps stick to W20 if I want werewolves with personality?

>>43567096
>Doesn't seem all that fair
The more bucks you pull in, the more attention you get.

>>43567096
>I don't suppose it gets any better in 2e?

WtF 2e was a major improvement all around, including Auspice and Tribe characterisation.

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>>43566935
>Supernatural
>Vampire Diaries
>iZombie
>Beauty & the Beast
>Flash
>Arrow
On CW? Yeah, I think so.

And let's not forget:
>Teen Wolf
>Lost Girl
>Orphan Black
>True Blood
>True Detective
>Sleep Hollow
>Gotham
>Lookinglass
>Lucifer
>The X-Files. Yes: The X-Files is back.
>Daredevil
>Jessica Jones
>Constantine (even if it was on the wrong network)
>Heroes Reborn
>Grimm
>The Blindspot
>Once Upon a Time
>Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.
>The Librarians
>Wayward Pines
>Twin Peaks return
>Penny Dreadful
>American Horror Story
>The Walking Dead
>Humans
>Haven
>Bitten
>Sense8
>From Dusk Til Dawn

So, yes, I think that a television series would work incredibly well. These are all current, upcoming, or recently ended shows that are either supernatural in nature or modern with a speculative fiction twist. That kind of thing is really hot right now. And this isn't even the only things out there, just the ones I found. I know there's a show with Jon Hamm and Daniel Radcliff that's Frankenstein related, for instance.

>>43567012
"Story" is "one complete narrative arc".
Most of my games are just that. For instance, a Hunter game might be "there's a Slasher, stop them" and that'd be the whole game.

Although the games I've been in that got THAT far have been few and far between.

>>43567096
>Or should I perhaps stick to W20 if I want werewolves with personality?
But that personality is also bad and just how they fight stuff and think they're so tough.

>>43567425
>Most of my games are just that. For instance, a Hunter game might be "there's a Slasher, stop them" and that'd be the whole game.
Well, there's also the fact that if the game is a single story, if you need/want to bump up your wisdom at all, you can just talk with the ST about shortening the time to a chapter or w/e so it's actually achievable within the scope of your game.

>>43567425
>But that personality is also bad and just how they fight stuff and think they're so tough.

Not to mention that most of the WtA tribes are transparently racist/sexist stereotypes of the cultures they come from, and often had drastically conflicting goals (which was kinda the point). It would be quite the laid-back game if, for example, a Black Fury and Fenrir, or Wendigo and just-about-any-other-tribe worked together without eventually coming to blows. Not to mention the Red Talons which were pretty much always blacklisted in groups, which leads me to wonder why WW never bothered to make them at least a little more palatable.
tl;dr: oWoD ain't that much better.

>>43567398

If anything, your post has proven that the market for these kinds of shows are too full. There's nothing that a World of Darkness serious could provide that any of those could not. A WoD TV show in this day and age would have to stand out from the pack, and I doubt, given the current state of TV, that it could.

>>43567579
To be fair, if one only runs a single Story instead of an extended Chronicle... would you ever buy up your Integrity stat for those few sessions?

>>43567660
Your Stories are usually only a few sessions?

>>43567605
>If anything, your post has proven that the market for these kinds of shows are too full.
Not really how it works.
Also, WoD stands from the pack in many ways. For one thing it's the driving inspiration for many of those shows, and beyond that it's got an incredibly deep and dense world to explore. It can do several things that those can't, because unlike all of those it's got more than just a single type of 'thing'. It's not "our world, but vampires" or "our world, but superpowers". It's "our world but there are wizards, vampires, changelings, werewolves battling evil entities, and stranger things besides."

The closest that comes to matching WoD is actually the Marvel shows, and maybe the DC ones.

All those successful shows prove that people are interested in urban fantasy. It's a hot commodity.

>>43567589
I don't mind conflict, but man, WtA is right up there with Vampire in terms of dickishness. And, like you said, groups like Red Talons, who might as well be villains.
This is why the Pure are the Garou Nation.

>>43567684
Stories are usually intended to be like 3-5 sessions or so, yeah.

>>43567605
Most of these recent shows portray monsters like vampires as misunderstood superhero sex gods or something. WoD might be able to provide a more traditional horror take on its series; vampires, werewolves, etc as the horrific monstrosities they're supposed to be, with few redeeming values, but enough that they aren't just set up to be monster hunter fodder. Although I do agree that the current market as it is is too oversaturated with supernatural series.

>>43567750
To be fair, WoD would probably have their main character a sexy vampire or something. Plus we all know oWoD vampires are superheroes

But the real difference is like I said. Those other shows don't have settings that are nearly as dense. WoD has political groups and supernatural alliances and things like that. What makes it a good RPG--the rich social groups and diverse setting--is also what would make it a good television series.

Especially if they do a Vampire series, a Werewolf series, and a Mage series that occasionally crossover.

>NWoD 2 – At Paradox for approval.
Soooo close. Guess we will see how quick Paradox approves.

>>43567722
> It can do several things that those can't,
Likely literally, seeing as how White Wolf sued the makers of the Underworld movie for being "vampires vs werewolves" which they claimed was totally their thing.

>I don't mind conflict, but man, WtA is right up there with Vampire in terms of dickishness. And, like you said, groups like Red Talons, who might as well be villains.This is why the Pure are the Garou Nation.
Well, given that the entire premise of WtA was that the world was fucked specifically because werewolves were such dicks, it isn't surprising. Neither is the fact that OPP rebranded Red Talons as outright villains for WtF. Though for the life of me, I can't think of which WtA tribe the Fire-Touched are based on.

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>>43567886
>Likely literally, seeing as how White Wolf sued the makers of the Underworld movie for being "vampires vs werewolves" which they claimed was totally their thing.
I know, it's hilarious. And now I have an excuse to post this again.

Also, that the world is fucked because Werewolves are dicks and they're ALL STILL DICKS is too frustrating for me. The Garou way of life is "it's broke, let's NOT do anything to fix it, let's just murder things until it all goes to Hell"

>>43567838
I can't really see Paradox/White Wolf supporting nWoD in the long term, even though I'm such a fan of it. oWoD is simply the bigger brand, which'll pull in bigger bucks, especially in the video game market. I wouldn't mind One World of Darkness at all, though, if it was simply oWoD fluff with nWoD crunch. That I could definitely live with.

>>43567976
You make it out like they couldn't bring up nWoD and make it just as popular. Also, honestly, I think nWoD is more popular for everything except Vampire. Maybe Apocalypse. Everything else? nWoD seems to have more fans.

>>43567817

No that's mages. There were sons of ether as pulp heros and marauders who went full capeshit insane.

>>43568014
I think all nWoD needs is some mass exposure.

>>43568028

now i want to see a marauder as a mahou shoujo

>>43567946
I didn't see it much that way. To me, it wasn't that the Garou didn't want to fix anything, so much as they're painfully aware that their predecessors fucked up way too much and it's too late to stop what's coming. So you have the Garou who do nothing or whatever they feel like out of resignation, and those who are FIGHTFIGHTFIGHT because there isn't enough time for Vampire-level subterfuge.

>>43567722

>For one thing it's the driving inspiration for many of those shows

And risks coming off as derivative in a time where so much of WoD's strengths have been borrowed or perhaps even perfected on television.

>and beyond that it's got an incredibly deep and dense world to explore.

That, in the fickle world of TV, the show many not even get a chance to dip into. For all those shows you've listed, twice as many or more urban fantasy/SF/Horror shows have gone DOA.

>It can do several things that those can't, because unlike all of those it's got more than just a single type of 'thing'. It's not "our world, but vampires" or "our world, but superpowers". It's "our world but there are wizards, vampires, changelings, werewolves battling evil entities, and stranger things besides."

Have you actually watched any of the shows you listed? Of your list alone, Vampire Diaries (and its spinoff, The Originals), True Blood, and Penny Dreadful show off a world just like WoD, with multiple kinds of creatures in a world like our own. "There's a bigger world than you expected" is a plot point in even more of those shows.

I'm not saying that a WoD TV show would instantly die. After all, Kindred: The Embraced was only cancelled after the tragic death of its star. There was a significant possibility that that show would have been huge, especially since it arrived in the early, hungry days of Fox. But that was 1996. Here we are, nineteen years later, in a very large television market. Anyone who takes on a project like this has to understand that, and know that it's a difficult task.

Assuming that you can just crib from the RPG doesn't work, because that's a budget and a length of time that you're not going to get unless you've got someone like Gale Anne Hurd on your executive producer credit.

All this said, I'd love to see them try to make one. No matter what, I'm in for at least the first three episodes.

So beasts only lose satiety through spending it to power up avitisms and nightmares right? So can a beast just stay at any given level for as long as they want?

>>43566935
There was a VtM TV show already. It was good.

>>43568028
You've never heard the term "Vampions"?

>>43568063
I didn't read much of Apocalypse, but I got the feeling that the Garou were incredibly myopic. The ultraviolence and bioterrorism is probably the least effective way to fight the force that feeds on chaos and destruction, but that's their go-to tactic. Groups like the Lodge of Garm and Children of Gaia and the Glasswalkers, who *don't* RIP AND TEAR are looked at with suspicion or treated like cowards.

>>43568108
>And risks coming off as derivative in a time where so much of WoD's strengths have been borrowed or perhaps even perfected on television.
Except that none of them are really borrowing WoD's strengths. In fact, they likely can't, because >>43567886

And it's not just cribbing from the RPG. in fact, doing that for a video game would be just as bad. I'm saying *build a chronicle*. Your TV show or video game should show off what it's like to PLAY WoD.

>>43568142
I think so. Might be a few things that force you to lose it.

>>43568014
>You make it out like they couldn't bring up nWoD and make it just as popular.
The problem with that is that OPP are the ones manning the wheel of nWoD, which goes against White Wolf's interests if they want more direct, proactive control over their IP. From a business standpoint, they stand to make less money the more they promote nWoD over their own version.

>Also, honestly, I think nWoD is more popular for everything except Vampire. Maybe Apocalypse. Everything else? nWoD seems to have more fans.
That's the case because virtually nobody ever actually PLAYED any of the non-Vampire/Werewolf/Mage games back in oWoD, and they had far fewer books to them than the Big Three to go on. So of course, naturally, they'll get more attention when they're given shiny, not-totally-shitty new editions after years of neglect.

>>43568191
>From a business standpoint, they stand to make less money the more they promote nWoD over their own version.
No? what?

>>43568108
The other big problem with WoD on TV is the fact that they'd have to do SOMETHING that jibes with their modern brand. And Masquerade would then have to jibe with post-Gehenna 4th Edition. And that'll be hard to do without maybe a season of 'here is a lot of historical events, oh look here's Gehenna, and now here we go'. It seems like it might be almost TOO much depth to put into a TV show. Besides, I wouldn't expect to see it on anything but a premium network or online like Netflix.

>>43568180

Oh no, it's just there were marauders who literally believed themselves superheros which informed all their actions.

>>43568266
>And Masquerade would then have to jibe with post-Gehenna 4th Edition.
Not really. There's a possibility that under Paradox they might go a different route. But I say that even while wanting nWoD to be left alone. I do wonder if they'll go in more of a V20 direction, though.

Post-Gehenna isn't really newcomer friendly, but then again I guess oWoD never was. Although they could always just set it as "it turns out the world ended. Only it didn't. So us vampires have been kicking the dirt and shuffling or feet going 'now what?'"

>>43568237
Uh, yes? What's not to understand about not making as much (note that I didn't say 'any') money when you let another company make their products using your IP? Sure, you get a cut of the profits, but you don't get the whole thing, now do you?

>>43566884
>NWoD 2 – At Paradox for approval.


Thank fuck. Its been so fucking long.

Anyone wonder what VtM4 being at Midwinter Con means? The implications there are pretty staggering. It meants that OPP is confident that they will be handling VtM4 and possibly that their version of the post-gehenna setting will stick even with Dracula's new vision of cWoD.

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>>43568165

brah only the first episode was any good.

>>43568345
Except if they want to have this brand-wide exposure of all kinds of media, everything needs to be recognizable to each other. And honestly, it would work, but it needs to be accessible.

I have seen a huge upswing in WoD games, both LARP and TT, locally because of stuff like Underworld, Twilight, Vampire Diaries and The Originals. And if something set directly in that world were out there, it would have to jibe with what the current setting is to make that cross-collaboration work. And that's going to be difficult.

Everything that OPP already has funding and kickstarters and approvals for is continuing on as normal, last I heard. Plus AFAIK, Rich met with Paradox and things seem to be going forward as normal, just with Paradox approvals instead of CCP.

>>43568448
You get quite a it of it. That's one of the reasons that people farm out IPs. That's why until recently Marvel was farming out their IP for movies and games and books and TV shows. Because licensing out your product instead of doing it yourself is good business. You only want to do it yourself when you're big and capable.

>>43568485
I meant "not really" as in "they might ditch the post-Gehenna idea".

Also, what you're saying is also reason why I'm still kind of worried about the state of nWoD, and what "One World of Darkness" means for it.

>>43568448

Paradox owns both oWoD and nWoD. They could take nWoD away from OPP or let OPP keep oWoD. Its not like one is their version and the other is OPP's and I really doubt that they'll split the properties between two companies. Either they both go to WW or they both stay with OPP or OPP gets bought out by Paradox, which I can see happening since Rich has no leg to stand on and is redundant in the new dynamic.

>>43568508
That and like two more upcoming kickstarters were announced in the blog post.

>>43568508

"Everything is normal until it's not" is pretty much the official word so far.

>>43568180
>The ultraviolence and bioterrorism is probably the least effective way to fight the force that feeds on chaos and destruction, but that's their go-to tactic. Groups like the Lodge of Garm and Children of Gaia and the Glasswalkers, who *don't* RIP AND TEAR are looked at with suspicion or treated like cowards.
That's the point. Werewolves were only ever supposed to be one cog in the greater shapeshifter community. Werewolves were the warrior caste, while the others (werebears, wererats, weresharks, etc) filled other roles that were better suited at tackling Gaia's problems in other ways. Werewolves are all RIP AND TEAR even if it's not the best idea because they were designed to tackle threats head-on, which explicitly works against them in WtA, because Pentex and the Wyrm are so insidious and underhanded. That's the kind of narrative brilliance I love about Werewolf, even if at the end of the day, it's pretty much another murderhobo rpg.

>>43568542
If they're going ahead with V4 as planned they likely will still be going post-Gehenna. It's also not something they can't NOT do, unless they are mandated to make something prior to the Gehenna books. Which would be a step backwards, IMO. That shit has been tread so much. Let's have something advancing.

>>43568634

Given the existence of Project Invictus, just how butthurt would the Garou be if it was the Technocracy that brought down Pentex without their help?

>>43568634
But it's not brilliance. It's stupid. "Well, guess everyone else is dead so we should keep on doing what we're doing even though we're not helping at best and fucking things up at worst"

And the thing is that the Werewolves aren't even FORCED to only be rip and tear. Several tribes aren't. But they get harassed and mistreated for being level headed and reasonable and trying alternate methods. Werewolves know that what they're doing is ineffective but they do it anyway and then go on and on jerking off about how they're trying to save the world or at least keep it alive for longer. That's like a fucking pyromaniac talking about how he's keeping the city from burning down while he plays with matches and gasoline.

I can't fucking stand that kind of narrative myopia.

>>43568549
>>43568508
Honestly, I feel that a lot of this fear and confusion might be solved if Paradox simply bought OPP wholesale, staff and all. At least then I wouldn't have to worry so much about Paradox/WW ruining or doing away with the "vision" for WoD that OPP has/had.

>>43568714
But even if they bought them wholesale they could still say "we want this to be different".

>>43568698
It would likely be a blow to their pride and all, but at the end of the day, Pentex is just one instrument in the Wyrm's arsenal, and even if some werewolves did hold a grudge against the Technocracy, I'm pretty sure the more experienced ones would know that fucking with mages is way more trouble than it's worth.

>>43567096
WtF 1e didn't sell that well. Not enough to warrant five separate books for auspice and tribe.

2e is a massive improvement.

Maybe we can hassle Paradox until they get rid of Geist and replace it with something better.

>>43568802
It's such a shame too, since the auspices and tribes, even after 2e, could use some serious fleshing out. Granted, 2e was a big step in the right direction, but they still don't have nearly as much flavor as the clans and covenants. And given this Paradox deal, I don't see that changing anytime soon.

>>43568906
>I don't see that changing anytime soon.
They've already got Secrets of the Tribes planned out, just like vampire has Secrets of the Covenants.

>>43568882
Maybe I can hassle you until you suck my dick.

>>43568957
There's not a microscope powerful enough to get that done.

>>43568455

Eddy Webb might actually have a very basic version of VtM4 for play, or most likely he'll be hosting a panel about it.

>>43568798

I know werewolves are really really really fucking stupid, but i never imagined they'd actually go against people who killed an enemy. I just cant help but wonder how many would collapse into Harano when they realized their own obsolescence

>>43568882

are you even trying to shitpost properly?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg29TuWo0Yo

Demiurge or Mage, /wodg/?

>>43564497
>Redheads, the original changeling.
I could have sworn I've seen you before: Aren't you that guy who wears the satyr horns and calfskin vest while playing on a set of panpipes?

Trying to stat out a 4th generation Mokole abomination. What's a good amount of experience to represent how shit-old and powerful this monstrosity is?

And yes, before anyone mentions, I know Mokole can't be embraced. This one is an exception, resulting from antediluvian bullshit.

>>43571399
8-9 dots in all physical disciplines.

>>43571399

actually they can but the results go berserk until put down iirc

>>43571540
More or less. They go on a berserk rampage until dawn, whereupon they immediately die regardless of circumstance. My point was that a Mokole abomination would not be "possible" in lore, except in this one instance.

Set severed this particular dragon's connection to Helios, allowing him to be embraced the same as a Garou.

>>43568142
I believe they lose 1 a week naturally.

>>43566665
>>43566767
I tried to make a game like this with RPGmaker in the style of Kings of Dragon's pass, with a rep from each of the 5 major factions serving on the player's board of advisors.

I only had one event before I quit:
Lancea et Sanctum was pushing to make it an offense to feed at a church.
Circle of the Crone opposed, but were fine with the player extending it to ALL religious grounds, including theirs.
Carthians were in favor, as few vampires fed within sacred grounds.
Invictus didn't care for the idea because of the manpower required to enforce it.
Ordo Dracul was largely disinterested, but marginally opposed because they thought the whole thing was stupid.

>>43571941

Depends on Lair level:

1-3, it's Weekly, 4-6 it's every three days, 7-9, Every two days, and at Lair 10 it's daily. You also lose Satiety if you spend it to heal (you can only do this in your Lair, when you've fused with your Horror), or when you add a new Chamber to your Lair or decided to rearrange the Burrows in your Lair.

The time method is recommended for players who aren't around a lot or just for NPC Beasts. For full time PC Beasts, it's suggested that the character loses points when the ST offers for it to drop. In exchange, the character takes a Beat. If that brings you down to a new level of Hunger, you get two Beats: one for agreeing to lower your Satiety, and one for the new condition the Beast is taking on. The player can initiate this, if they like, but the ST is not obligated to agree.

>>43572024
Was it the design of Beast that it basically turn into the Peanut Butter for ever other supplement's Jam?

I mean, cooperatively feeding when your "brothers" do their thing is a great way to stay satiated without turning society against you, and the abilities you get through connecting with these fellows are pretty incredible.

>>43572196
Yeah, it's pretty great. The beast in my mixed campaign will never need to feed off humans.

>>43571992
Requiem meets Kings of Dragon's Pass would be amazing.

>>43572459
I'd contribute to a corpus of writing and algorithms, but I'm weak on the coding
You'd just have to have a clear scope/premise

>>43571992
>Ordo Dracul was largely disinterested, but marginally opposed because they thought the whole thing was stupid.

As they are with almost every political thing.

>>43566543
>What would you do with a WoD video game?

A roguelike where you take a motley of Changelings into the hedge.

>>43566543
>What would you do with a WoD video game?
You are a vampire. An angel is trying to kill you. Survive.

>>43566543
>What would you do with a WoD video game?
First person Changeling RPG.
Fresh from the Hedge, and with few memories of your previous life or durance.
Pretty "VtMB"-ish, but with much less combat focus due to less ability to just heal everything.
Initial antagonist is your Fetch, with the ultimate decision of whether to kill it or not. Evidence will accrue as you continue that it's not merely some monster, but possibly that it has genuine feelings and reasons for what it has done. Depending on actions, they might help or hinder you later, if you let them live.
Encounter your keeper, you get to choose which Court to ally yourself with (or even go Courtless).
Final antagonist isn't your keeper, but your have the option to try and kill them while they're out of the Hedge and weak. Fucking hard fight though.
Goblin Markets section is goddamn crazy.
NPC relations you can forge, people you can Ensorcell, ways they'll react.
Little bit of interaction with hunters, one Mage encounter, you meet a Promethian.

>>43568699
Again, that's the point. They're wolves. They're hardwired to think that the only sensible thing is tear everything down, and to deride the few groups among that realize that's foolish. They're an example of what happens when you take the proud warrior race and extrapolate them into a world that's dying and has no need for proud warrior races. It's supposed to be like your pyromaniac example: someone with a pathological need to burn things down justifies it to himself as "for the greater good" while calling the other latent arsonists idiots for deciding to become firemen instead. It's incredibly nihilistic, but that's the world of WtA. It's not like they didn't give you options to try and change that, just expect to have to drag them kicking and screaming.

>>43567589
>WtA tribes are transparently racist/sexist stereotype
And what's so bad about it?

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Was realizing this would be the perfect inspiration for a Mage game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt9HkO-cGGo

>>43572247

You know, with how much easier and safer it is to feed with a supernatural buddy, I wonder if one supernatural faction in a city somewhere "assigns" a Beast or two to a group to help keep the peace.

>>43569733
>First indication of the joke is a dying child
This is going to go happy places.

>>43573445
>They're wolves.
They're also people. That's the problem. The characters are in many ways cognizant rational beings. Many of them even know that what they're doing is unhelpful, but choose not to try different tactics (like the Get). "It's our way of life" stops being relevant and true when you've had millennia to stop being an idiot. And yet there are still Garou who call for another Impergium, an action that would no doubt make the Corruptor Wyrm and the Destroyer Wyrm fat and happy.

You have tribes like the Stargazers leaving the Garou Nation over actions like this, and the War of Fera. That was several lifetimes before the start of the game. Prehistoric, even. And yet the Garou *still* act like fucking idiots. Even after their proudest tribe dances the Black Spiral, every other Werewolf seems to want to do the same damned thing.

And I've said this before when it comes to why I don't like the Cainite Heresy in Hunter the Vigil, but I don't like playing characters who are fucking idiots. I don't like playing characters so stupid that they can't put two and two together. It's like some people's excuses for why they don't like Promethean or Vampire. "I don't want to play a character where it would be better for the world if they had shotgun mouthwash"

>>43573477
Some of us are adults and find it cringeworthy to play Jim Crow and the Straw Feminist.

>>43569733
An Unmada with Automata.

Probably a Hoffnung.

Has DaveB, Rich or anyone else at OPP released any samples of new art from Mage 2e?

Although I was a big fan of Mage 1e, and am very much looking forward to 2e, I always thought the art (and layout and font choices) in 1e were both terrible and lacked thematic oomph.

I've never gotten over the fact that my favorite Path, the Obrimos, the Mighty with strong religious overtones, was not only represented by freckled girl and a unicycle, but she was a signature character.

>>43574526
>was not only represented by freckled girl and a unicycle, but she was a signature character.
I don't really see the problem with this. I mean, she looks like someone who's pure of heart and courageous, even if she isn't physically strong. And the Obrimos are not the physically strong, they're the spiritually strong. She looks cherubic and virtuous, and has her symbol of power lifted up in triumph and dominance, like a Cleric raising their Holy Symbol against a horde of zombies, or a Christian raising the cross against nonbelievers, rallying allies and routing the unjust.

It's never struck me as bad or unfitting, no more so than any of the other really weird ass art for Mage. If anything it was one of the more fitting ones, although that's not saying much. My only real problem is that she looks like she's from some jRPG or a weird sci-fi RPG taking place in a world of crystal spires and togas.

I have a Beast related Question; Do Androids dream of Electric Sheep?

>>43574526
>>43574578
The biggest "this doesn't fit the fluff/style at all" art for me was the Silver Ladder guy.

>>43574578

I have no objection to using non-tradition representations for signature characters or NPC's, but the Gloriana art was both of poor quality and not evocative. She looked like she belonged in the circus, and I expected images of her juggling with a bear in a tutu, rather than commanding the primal forces of the universe by her will alone. I sensed P.T. Barnum, not the power of the Aether.

The rest of the art was no better, and Gloriana was just one notable example.

>>43574631
I still cannot for the life of me figure out who could have thought that up as a good SL representation.

>>43574714
I think he, more than anything else in the books has fucked with everyone's initial perceptions of the Ladder and made them into the classic "manipulative, untrustworthy politician assholes" in the vein of the Invictus, or Camarilla.

Rather than the wise Sorcerer-priests who lead for the good of all that they're supposed to be.

>>43574682
Iunno, like I said, Glorianna doesn't stand out to me. The personality is at least right. Silver Ladder and Free Council on the other hand? And the Moros looks like an oil baron and has a chin strap.

There's some good Mage art out there, it's just not that. The art for the Tremere in Left Handed Path is pretty good. The precession of zombies is good. Some of the Forces art looks like it would BE good if it was coloured...

>>43574766
Nah, the fact that they're Magical Republicans is my problem with them. They're too conservative for my tastes. "The past is great! Even though we fucked everything up!"

>>43574792

As we agree that the SL, FC and much of the other art was not very good in 1e, we can certainly amicably agree to disagree about Gloriana.

The art does set the tone and feeling of a book, and I really hope it improves in Mage 2e.

Dave indicated that at least some of the art will be in color. That's certainly encouraging.

>>43574792

Gloriana a cute. But "cute" doesn't really do it for Obrimos. The Moros looks like a Gay Cowboy, the Mastigos looks like a Tool, the Guardian looks like a young Hilary Clinton, the Free Council guy looks like an inbred weasel, and then there's frog boy. None of the art jumped out at me and said "i want to play this." Hopefully they'll take the art style in a different direction in 2e, one more evocative of barely controlled power

>>43574871
I would argue the Mastigos fits, as does the Thyrsus.

Guardian also gets the point across with the knife (hue hue hue), Arrow is all right too.

>>43574578
>>43574682
>>43574792
>>43574829

I wish WW used Khonsu or Potestas as the Obrimos signature character in Mage 1e, rather than Gloriana. However, given the artistic choices in the 1e corebook, they still probably would have portrayed them riding a unicycle.

I would very much like to know what a unicycle has to do with the Aether, magic, forces, prime, or anything else other than the circus.

I just hope they change the art direction, because the current one really doesn't work.

>>43573628
>he just realized that awakening is based off of the Matrix and Dark City

wow

Also, both Ascension and Awakening would make bad video games because you can't replicate creative thaumaturgy outside of something like a roguelike.

>>43574682

I didn't know that the Obrimos art was supposed to be Gloriana but once I did I just just couldn't take the fiction seriously. All this grim stuff with Angrboda is happening while he's tooting along on her unicycle.

>>43575117
I actually thought about this recently. No, replicating the 10 Arcana accurately would not work, but focusing on 2 could.

For instance, you play an Obrimos. Forces? Quite a lot of stuff to do, but essentially you just need an extended physics sandbox.

Prime? It is relatively straightforward in what it can do.

Of course, even doing just Prime and Forces justice would take a lot of work, but I would say it is almost in the realm of the possible.

>>43575199

That isn't really a mage game anymore. That is just elemental wizard physics sandbox. And even then, you'd be playing an extremely dumbed down version of it.

>>43574871
>Obrimos
>barely-controlled power
Inb4 the 2e Obrimos art is just Harry Dresden

>>43575284
Nah, it's Khonsu casting a spell. The art notes for the preview said so.

>>43575284
To quote the aforementioned wizard
>"Fuck subtle!"

>>43573628
That is why it's listed as one of the inspirational media for 2e, yes.
>Of the two gnostic films that came out at the same time (and even shared some sets!) Dark City is more Awakening than The Matrix, if only because the hero has to stay in the prison of the real even after seeing through the Lie he’s been kept in. The Matrix has more flash and catharsis, while Dark City has more heart.
I have a film-nerd friend who got mad when people described Awakening as "The Matrix" when Dark City A) fit better and B) is a better movie.

>>43575342
>B) is a better movie

Debatable. The psychic kamehameha battle at the end took me out of it. And lets not forget that the theatrical version spoiled the twist for everyone in the opening narration. I feel like people saying Dark City is a better movie is just a hipster knee jerk response to look cool for liking the less popular film.

I demand more women on unicycles and flamboyant cowboys in my Mage art. We should be reminded daily that Mages are just huge nerds, and look the part to boot.

>>43575342

The machines make for a better analogue for the Exarchs than the psychic aliums do, as does the setting of the Matrix over the Dark City. In the Matrix, the lie is used to keep humanity complacent and happy while their masters exploit them whereas in Dark City the whole thing is a playground for their masters to shift around as they please in order to understand humans or someshit.

You could also argue that the Matrix's ending is more fitting for Mage because it ends with Neo having all these powers and using them to fight against the Machines inside the Matrix, like how Mages use their trip to the Supernal to wage war against the Exarchs within the Fallen World. Dark City kind of ends with not-Joaquin-Phoenix accepting his fate/winning against the aliums.

Both movies fit in different ways. I wouldn't say one is closer to Awakening's setting than the other.

>>43575402
Oh, yes, the theatrical release is garbage. A "what is reality?" mystery isn't much of a mystery when you answer the question before it's even been asked.

It might also help that Dark City didn't get two sequels that did their damnedest to retroactively ruin the original film.

>>43575410

I hope they leave the special Brokeback Mountain or Ringling Brothers Circus editions of Mage 2e for a Kickstarter, and provide us regular customers with more appropriate, thematic and evocative art in the new basic core.

>>43575556

I thought cowboy mage was fine. Would have been perfect if not for those silly goggles.

>>43575480
So, I never got what people find so upsetting about the two sequels. To be fair, I did not find the original to be mind-blowing either, so that might have something to do with it. Three okay movies about cyber-gnosticism.

Care to explain?

I recall reading one of the vampire bloodlines as being composed of Wolf-Blooded who were embraced before their First Change. I thought being a werewolf was an entirely inherited trait, and that Wolf-Blooded were people who were born from werewolves, but weren't lucky enough to become Uratha, or people who survived an encounter with a werewolf and developed wolf-like traits. Does that mean that it actually is possible for people to become a werewolf the traditional way (cursed bite)? If so, why haven't the Forsaken or Pure done so more often to bolster their numbers faster, instead of taking years to breed and raise Uratha?

>>43575588

But the goggles were there, just like the damn unicycle. Also, why did they choose a cowboy or all things to represent the Moros?

How was most of the Mage 1e art ever approved, and what exactly was feel they were trying to achieve?

I liked Mage 1e, but the art felt like a images of rejects from a bad Halloween party.

>>43575695

u sayin cowboys can't awaken you bigot?

>>43575640
They are bad movies, plain and simple. There are a lot of complaints but it boils down to them just not being very good.

>>43575651
Nascent werewolves are indistinguishable from garden-variety wolfbloods. Whether you are or aren't a werewolf is decided by the time you're born, but there's no way to tell, and it can be interrupted by becoming a different major splat before the First Change.

A wolfblooded who was supposed to be a werewolf could Awaken if they had a strong enough revelation about the nature of reality, or be stolen away by the Fae (although from what I remember the Fae prefer completely untemplated mortals for that), or be Embraced by a Vampire, or die and be offered the Bargain by a Geist, etc. etc.

About the only thing they couldn't become is a Beast, because both Beast and Werewolf operate on mutually exclusive "You were always an X".

Could use some advice for my M:tAwakening game. I'm trying to get my group to realize that Mages aren't the "good guys".

Other than having the local consilium burn down an orphanage I could use ideas for the morally grey world mages live in.

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>>43575937

>>43575883
That explains things a bit better, but what I meant is instances like that mentioned in the White Wolf wiki:
>There are even incidents when a strong exposure to the supernatural world of the Forsaken, like Lunacy, possession, sexually transmitted pseudo-lycanthropy, and sometimes a severe reaction to the bite of a werewolf resulted in the creation of a new Wolf-Blooded.
Maybe the wording is to blame for being unclear, but from that, it implies that there are people who didn't have any potential for lycanthropy whatsoever, and then suddenly develop the trait after surviving an encounter.

>>43576123
You can spontaneously be turned into one of those "would never have been a werewolf anyway" wolf-bloods, yeah. Hell, that's a possible response to Lunacy in 2e.

>>43576149
Right, exactly; what I'm asking is if those Lunacy-begotten wolf-bloods could also experience a First Change, or if the First Change is reserved exclusively for Uratha and inherited wolf-bloods. What I read implies uncertainly that the former might be the case.

>>43576210
It's entirely possible, in 2e at least.
Luna is a fickle mother, and it's entirely possible for someone who isn't even a wolf-blooded to suddenly start experiencing the taletell signs of an impending first change.

Of course, these poor souls end up believing themselves to have gone insane, unless they find a pack shortly after their First Change, because they have no idea what's going on.

>>43572749
I'd play that...
but building the setting city with enough detail would be a BEAST of a thing to do...

>>43575976
Damn son. Thank you. That gives me plenty of Ideas for the next couple of sessions.

>>43575695
I'd like to thing a Moros Cowboy would be something like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

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So when are we going to get the update that explains how Heroes are also hunted down by Hunters because they're complete douchebags strawman of a generic type everyone hates not just the tumblrinas Beast is aimed at?

>>43576479
I just want to see what the different Hunter Groups actually would say about Heroes, mostly because there has to be at least one group that would go "He's mad, kill him." I know Cheiron would have you up on a chopping block in no time flat.

>>43576479
Aren't Heroes supposed to be megalomaniacal assholes who deliberately try to get people who help them killed so they can kill the beast with their own two hands?

In general, Hunters would respond to both Heroes and Beasts with "yup, that needs to die".

>>43576664
>In general, Hunters would respond to both Heroes and Beasts with "yup, that needs to die".
Hunters compare a Heroes actions to those of a Slasher, so there's that.

>>43576210
>Right, exactly; what I'm asking is if those Lunacy-begotten wolf-bloods could also experience a First Change,

They can, yes.

Uratha have very, very little control over any form of actively cultivating new werewolves. Wolf-Blooded in 2e are not breeding stock. An area with no Uratha in it at all may well start spitting out new werewolves from the human population, and equally there's no concrete guarantee that a family that has historically produced a lot of Wolf-Blooded and Uratha will produce any at all in the current generation.

>>43576706

Chris, has The Pack been confirmed despite the Paradox purchase of WW, or might it end-up as vaporware?

>>43576724
Well the 2nd draft deadline is coming up and no-one has yet told me to *stop* writing so... :)

>>43576748

I'll take that as good news.

I assume that most, if not all, freelancers are equally in the dark about the effect of the Paradox acquisition as the rest of us.

>>43576664
Heroes, just from what I've read in my sources, are a bunch of douchebag fedora-lord/extremist conservative parodies EVIL 4CHAREDDITANS REPUBLICANS that are always wrong and dumb but people like them for some reason- despite all their lingo to hide the fact they're slasher villains is basically fucking PUA lingo. Also they get powers or something from the Beasts they slay? Seems like a recipe for fuck ups that need Task Force Valkyrie to swoop in and just nuke neighborhoods.

>>43576522
Since one of the tactics is apparently being mean on the internet, I'm sure Network Zero will counter troll them a lot.

>>43576664
>In general, Hunters would respond to any supernatural with "yup, that needs to die".

Fix'd

halp changeling rulebooks

lost a mediafire link that had all of them complete full wod collection, anybody has?

>>43576819

Heroes are dangerous because they soft mind control people into becoming a murderous mob, have clearly non-human powers, and tend to have inferiority complexes that lead them to act out in hideous violence. When we consider this, and the general overall rarity of WoD creatures, a Hero might actually be mistaken for a Promethean variant.

>>43576788

The rule of thumb I'm using is "if it's on the schedule, it's happening."

>>43576841
Union pls go. Don't you have some machines to smash or something?
>>43576664
Supposed to, but there seems to be very little actual evidence beyond that. Then again, downloading the file seems to have killed my machine so I can't check right now to make sure.
>>43576896
Promethean? Hmm... interesting.
>>43576522
Lucifuge would probably like them, same with Loyalists of Thule.

>>43576896
Well either way, Hunters whose job is to HIDE the supernatural to keep shit like mobs from happening will probably drop in and fuck these guys up before they worry about Beasts.

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>>43576129

I much prefer the manipulative mastermind acanthus to flighty ditzy fae acanthus.

>>43576916
I feel like Loyalists of Thule are too smart to side with Heroes. They might want to research how their powers happen but aside from that...

>>43576896
>The rule of thumb I'm using is "if it's on the schedule, it's happening."

I think that very optimistic.

OPP has announced a LOT of products, but only a handful are well into production.

I expect to see the release of all current and past Kickstarter material, and probably anything that's near release or mostly written, such as Mage 2e, Promethean 2e, the new nWOD corebook, The Pack, Signs of Sorcery, etc.

However, projects like Deviant, which is so far out that we don't yet even know the full name of he book, are probably in a lot more precarious situation.

>>43576945
They're the closest thing to the Technocracy (no Cheiron is far too Not!Pentex to see supernatural shit as anything beyond a means to an end) nWoD has this side of the GM itself so they'd by no means "side" with them so much as "approve of" and "use" them. Should have been clearer.

>>43576970

Tome of the Pentacle is on the schedule but it aint happening bro.

>>43576929
I like to think of Acanthus as superpowered Livejournal/Myspace/ whatever else is the current FOTM art & self-expression community at the moment people, i.e kinda meddling and twatty without truly meaning to.

>>43576916

It's true. Heroes will being people under their Sway, but it's very clear from the get go that they do this for cannon fodder. Heroes don't get new powers unless they alone make the killing blow on the Beast.

Heroes actually become a lot more palatable when you realize that they're actually suffering from a literal addiction to power.

I wish they had gone further with that, actually. Heroes are intitally people frustrated with their lot in life and have a bad reaction to brushing against the Primordial Dream, right? What if killing a Beast didn't just give you a new Hero power, but also literally made their lives better in selfish ways? Kill a Beast, your boss suddenly falls ill and you have a promotion in your dead end job, AND you can lift trucks or whatever. You could become king shit of the world, but it must be built on the corpses of Beasts. A Hero's building their own Legend, after all. Heroes become a lot more threatening when they're slowly transforming into amoral modern day god-kings as opposed to staying a dork with a body count.

>>43576929
>tfw John Hurt has pancreatic cancer and will be dead by years end

>>43576970

OPP is going to get all of their contracted stuff done and out of the way before Paradox quietly discontinues nWoD and takes V4 for themselves.

>>43577018
>beast sux and could have been better
tell me something i dont know

>>43577018
>I wish they had gone further with that, actually. Heroes are intitally people frustrated with their lot in life and have a bad reaction to brushing against the Primordial Dream, right? What if killing a Beast didn't just give you a new Hero power, but also literally made their lives better in selfish ways? Kill a Beast, your boss suddenly falls ill and you have a promotion in your dead end job, AND you can lift trucks or whatever. You could become king shit of the world, but it must be built on the corpses of Beasts. A Hero's building their own Legend, after all. Heroes become a lot more threatening when they're slowly transforming into amoral modern day god-kings as opposed to staying a dork with a body count.
Huh, now it sounds like a mix of Madoka, [C] and Accel World with a seasoning of Darksiders.

And even more appealing to play from the Hero side.

>>43577018
>Heroes become a lot more threatening when they're slowly transforming into amoral modern day god-kings as opposed to staying a dork with a body count.
They're still gonna come a cropper against something tougher than them, like Caine.

>>43577021
>OPP is going to get all of their contracted stuff done and out of the way before Paradox quietly discontinues nWoD and takes V4 for themselves.

That's certainly a realistic possibility. However, they might very well cancel contracted projects that are very far out like Deviant.

Further, Paradox has final approval on all WW releases. While CCP was basically a rubber stamp, Paradox might demand very large and specific changes to even contracted projects to ensure their vision of the WOD is maintained. Based upon a few of the interviews, it looks like the nWOD might not be "edgy" or dark enough for our new friends in Sweden.

>>43577068
>Heroes
>cWoD
Though to be fair >>43577018 this makes a lot more sense in a world that actually has the Consensus.

ALSO would something not-shit come from tying the Beast, the Strix and the Mother of Monsters together?

>>43576114
That's actually pretty good.

>>43576896
>a Hero might actually be mistaken for a Promethean variant.
>mistaking anything for a Promethean
I'd be surprised if anyone knew what a Promethean IS without being a Demiurge or Promethean themselves, let alone jumping to that as the default explanation for anything.

>>43577279

Mages can tell because they get BTFO by the divine fire.

>>43577303
>Mages can tell because they get BTFO by the divine fire.
Not his point. Their number is measured in hundreds.

>>43577303
Even most Mages wouldn't know what Prometheans are, because there are less than a gross of the damn things on the entire planet. There'd probably be a compiled group of suspiciously-similar accounts in the Mysterium's archives, but the only people who tend to actually know shit in Promethean are Qashmallim, and they don't tend to talk to non-Prometheans. They might not even register Mages' existence.

>>43575479
>>43575479
I think this is the crucial step is what I miss from Mage: The Awakenings setting, which is why it seems more like an urban fantasy than gnostic horror to me.

Of course you have the Seers, Exarchs, Scelesti and the very real threat of the abyss and paradox. But all of these things are incredibly open-ended, much in the same way that kindred aren't really interested in the gospels of Longinus, precisely because it is a myth that has yet to be substantiated in any meaningful way.

Personally, I don't see the Seers any differently than I do the Guardians of the Vale save for that they might play nicer with the orders of the consilium.

>>43577329
>>43577327
>>43577303
Actually, wait. Demons probably know because the Divine Fire, Arcadia and Realms Supernal are the only places the GM is - most likely - not (yet) in.

>>43577279

Well, it wouldn't be straight up "Ah yes, clearly this man with a trench coat and Katana is Prometheus Disquietus, strain A_GAMER" but something more like "hey there's things that rabble rouse in similar ways, let's lump 'em all together, all them 'provacateurs' or something".

>>43577119

>implying Caine ISN'T in nWoD

Why didn't you Ask The Question?

>>43577039

True, true. Even after the revision, Beast is still pretty "meh". It could have a great second edition in the right hands, though. I mean, the chances of that happening anytime soon is zero, but still.

>>43577329
Considering how rare Prometheans are, how the effects they tend o produce don't tend to tie directly back to them until the latest stages of Disquiet, and how often they move around, the sort of person who's going to correctly tie down the source of weird small-scale social changes and environmental disturbances to a wandering half-finished being is going to necessarily be some sort of obsessed conspiracy theorist seeing connections no-one else does.

Of course, that also tends to describe a fair number of Mages.

And Geniuses, but those guys aren't canon.

>>43577345
>Demons know about something because the God-Machine doesn't know about it
>something that is necessarily not in their pre-Fall memory banks
How the hell do you figure?

>>43577345
>Divine Fire
>a place

It is The Principle.

>>43577343
The Exarchs are simultaneously beings, concepts, and principles. Whether or not they're also once-human god-kings is irrelevant when they're actively working to alter the world to better fit the concept they represent, especially when every single one is "make the world shittier in this specific way". Cultists of the Eye want to turn as many places as possible into surveillance states, which in turn strengthens the concepts the Eye represents, which in turn strengthens the Eye.

The Guardians don't have anything like that.

>>43577390
Thing, yes. I didn't put that well.
>>43577385
Err, not per se know the specifics of but know as part of their assignments. The GM most likely invests more resources into investigating shit it cannot control than shit it kinda already controls.

>>43577116
I would be seriously disappointed if that were the case. I feel that nWoD is a different, and some might argue better perspective on horror than oWoD. In the latter, the monsters were far stronger than mortals and subtly lorded over them, sure, but at the same time, individual vampires, werewolves, mages, etc were just small pieces in a much larger global scheme; and for all that horrific power, they were all just as helpless in preventing their own downfall and that of the world around them. The players themselves, at least from my experience, didn't really get into the actual horror tone since the splats were so damn powerful that they just gallivanted around like invincible superheroes.

nWoD takes on a far more personal level of horror chiefly by doing away with the global scale, focusing on local events around the players, being vague and ambiguous, and, by depowering the splats, upped the ante for players and gave them more reason to dread. Plus, like >>43568014 said, the limited series are much, much better and more interesting now, ESPECIALLY Changeling. I think out of all WoD, Changeling the Lost captures the feeling of personal horror better than any other game.

I also worry about Paradox/WW's One World of Darkness idea, since merging the two lore-wise is difficult, if not outright unfeasible for some splats, and embracing oWoD wholesale would just disappoint and possibly disenfranchise all nWoD fans, who by now likely make up half the total fanbase. However, I could come around to the idea somewhat if it turns out like >>43567976 suggests.

>>43577417
>The GM most likely invests more resources into investigating shit it cannot control than shit it kinda already controls.
The GM most likely keeps Angels the hell away from things it can't control, because an Angel calling the G-M for information and getting "FILE NOT FOUND" is a really fucking good way to get a Demon.

>>43577447

I'm still placing my bets on "Dracula's gonna smash the toys together". Not only because it'd lead to the biggest flame war since 2004, but because I'd be honestly interested in seeing what a totally fused setting looks like.

>>43577407
How powerful is the resonance of the Eye? Is it at the point of control that the Technocracy possesses in owod Mage? Are the Seers given tremendous advantages over Pentacle mages? Or are they simply a radical alternative to the Atlantean Diamond?

>>43577485
>The GM most likely keeps Angels the hell away from things it can't control, because an Angel calling the G-M for information and getting "FILE NOT FOUND" is a really fucking good way to get a Demon.
That's hilarious to me somehow, and I can't quite say why. Good point though. Still, knowing things is their thing and unlike Hunters they're not kinda bad at it due to being mortals so despite the - as you explained - low chances said chances are still modestly better than for other splats.

Also, how known do you guys make the Cheiron Group?

Like Abstergo (HUUUGE but unknown by norms for plot reasons) or more like an "actual" company with a hidden branch?

>>43577018
Man, I like that concept.

>>43577506
Read the Seers book.

The Eye is, as an Ascended being, a fundamental truth of existence. The more accurately the World Below reflects this truth, the stronger the Eye becomes, so its servants actively work to change the world to better reflect their god.

And there are ten such Iron Seals, each with (possibly multiple) Ministries.

How much control the Ministries actually have is up to the ST, and the book discusses several alternative options. In general the primary reason they haven't crushed the Pentacle is that they spend as much time fighting each other for supremacy as they do each other, and that the single largest Pentacle Order (the Free Council) is specifically dedicated to fucking up Seers as one of its core, founding tenets. That and the Exarchs have pretty much ALREADY won, so most of the Seers' job is maintaining the status quo and preventing the Pentacle from making the world less shitty.

>>43577516
>Also, how known do you guys make the Cheiron Group?

Actual company, secret dealings. I mean, they're a massive medical tech company with diversified holdings around the world and dozens of partner/child/she'll companies. You can buy stock in them. You might WORK for them and not realize because your company is three times removed from Cheiron.

>>43576664

>be a hunter

>kill humanlike monsters indiscriminately

Yeah, you're gonna have a real short career

>>43577018

Do hero powers only work on beasts, though?

Also, i kinda keked at the aegis kai doru going "hercules is da first hero." Gilgamesh much?

And how would you portray a "Gilgamesh," as a Hero who slew beasts but experienced something that changed their focus?

I lost track, has project beast been released and if so can anyone post pdf(s)?

>>43577516
The Cheiron Group mostly operates via its subsidiary companies, not unlike oWoD Pentex, so it's a lot bigger than it actually appears. Cheiron proper mostly just appears to be a largeish pharmaceuticals company.

>>43577516

In my setting, Cheiron is a publically traded multinational pharmaceutical company, contemporaries with other large corporations in the medical field, like GlaxoSmithKline, Merck, Pifzer, Novartis, Last Dynasty International, Sanofi, Magadon, and Hoffman-La Roche. Cheiron mostly focuses on pharmaceuticals and medical tools for hospitals and organizations, so they're not as well known for their over the counter medications. In addition, the parts of Cheiron we know and love are considered "the embarrassing division" by middle level management, who only know that R&D produces over 70 failed projects for every successful one. Anyone who looks into why the current R&D team is still around gets "promoted" to R&D very quickly.

>>43577593
The "Backers, please look this over and do our proofreading for us" copy is out, yes.

I don't have a download link on hand, though.

>>43577329

nice headcanon

>>43577587

Hero powers are mostly just general buffs aside from being able to charm people into doing their bidding and throwing down Anathema.

>>43577758

It's not less than a gross but it's pretty tiny. About a hundred worldwide.

Does anyone here believe that all the problems with Beast, OPP"s last nWOD release, might have a negative impact on any decision by Paradox whether to cancel the nWOD or institute major creative and administrative changes, particularly with new, untested properties.

I really hope that Deviant and DaveB don't get shafted because Matt designed a game that was little more than a tween Gamergate revenge fantasy, ignored playtesters when they told him something was wrong, and possibly screwed-up a Kickstarer.

>>43577777
>one gross is 12 squared
>144
>"about a hundred" is not less than 144

And Qashmallim completely ignore anything irrelevant to their missions.

>>43577587
>>be a hunter
>>kill humanlike monsters indiscriminately
>Yeah, you're gonna have a real short career
>implying that most monsters that Hunters hunt aren't humanlike
>implying there aren't three different hunter books dedicated to hunting humanlike monsters in Vampires, Werewolves and Mages

>>43577777

I'm talking about how sure you are that mages do or don't know about them. Nothing in the books says either way.

>>43577784

No, because Beast still made 116,383 dollars, came out in the year it was KSed, and enhances the narrative of "Onyx Path listens to fans", even we're not super happy with the revision. In the world of the Kickstarter, especially the RPG Kickstarter, that's a fucking miracle.

One bad game is not going to change anything, and that's still the truth in a post Paradox world. If Deviant doesn't end up happening, it's because Paradox had a different vision for what WoD splats should be, not because of Beast.

>>43577846
Again, there's 100 of them on a planet of 7 billion, and their effects on the world can't really be directly traced back to them unless you're actively looking to do so. Most crossover material regarding Prometheans is written from the assumption that if your group encounters one, it's going to be one of the first times this has happened.

Hence "there might be some stuff in the Mysterium's archives", because they obsessively catalogue everything.

>>43574526
As the release schedule says, Mike's waiting on a couple of last pieces to come in before building the book, which is when I'll get to see it. I know some of the artists working on Awakening 2, and I know what I asked for in my art notes. Seven signature characters (5 Paths, one Legacy, one Proximus dynasty) and not a Unicycle among them.

Mike might put an art preview up at some point.

>>43577962
>not a Unicycle among them

Any gay cowboys?

More seriously, is Khonsu the Obrimos signature character. He's a badass, and wouldn't be caught dead on a unicycle.

Is it also true that the new core will be in full color?

>>43578087

Who are you to assume that Khonsu wouldn't be seen on a unicycle?

>>43577962
>No Order Iconics
So no Silver Ladder Morlock this time around, then?

>>43577962
>I know what I asked for in my art notes.
>Artists
>Paying attention to what's in the art notes
Tell that to the Exalted devs and their book full of inexplicably-white Southerners.

>>43578133

I'm going to miss Biking and Skyping Libertine.

>>43578087
he got this one in a previous thread actually
it will be partial colour in the same vein as Vampire and Werewolf 2E

>>43578326

I don't know if any color pieces in Mage will ever top Werewolves Fighting a Construction Machine Spirit, but I'm looking forward to the Mage art.

>>43578360
>Werewolves Fighting a Construction Machine Spirit
I'm sorry, I just thought of this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jSxzM0-c2k

>>43576970
>OPP has announced a LOT of products, but only a handful are well into production.
The vast majority of them are in production. Using a qualifier like "well into" is limiting things for no reason.

It's the oWoD stuff that isn't selling anymore. You can get a lot for a core kickstarter (increasingly less, especially when the next one is fucking Changling) but the supplements are barely breaking stretch goals.

>>43578610

There are a ton of oChangeling fans for some reason, who'll probably drop a shitload of money. Then again, most of them live in Europe, so shipping costs might be a hamper.

>>43578610
>You can get a lot for a core kickstarter (increasingly less
people are going to probably back them less now that they know they'll be made redundant with 4e

>>43578360
>Construction Machine Spirit
What would that even look like? Also I'm picturing Devastator as some sort of Magath, or something, but that;s just me.

>>43578649

My bets are that any plans for 20th Anniversary books from here on out just become Third/Fourth editions.

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>>43578702

What Splat would best for a Dark Era set during the Vietnam War?

>>43578747
Set where?

>>43578731
Noice, so a Magath of a lot of those would be kinda like Big Devs then?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WvLNYpB2L0

>>43578761
Well I was thinking In the 'Nam itself.

>>43578731

Ah, there you are, Best Art Piece in All the Second Edition Books. I hope I can buy a poster of you someday.

>>43578764
You could just have one that would be like it. Or a Hive-Claimed. You wouldn't need a bunch, spirits are sort of unlimited when it comes to size

>>43575342
But in The Matrix the hero does have to stay in the Lie even after it's been revealed to him. In fact it's not even until Revolutions that there's an "escape", and even then there's strong indication that it was just creating another, nicer Lie. Even Zion is possibly nothing but a Lie.

Actually, if anything The Matrix is a bad inspiration for 2e because The Supernal is another layer of the Lie. It seems like the ultimate truth, but it's only there to keep you from looking deeper and realizing that it, too, is as much a falsehood as the 'real' world.

>>43575695
>why did they choose a cowboy or all things to represent the Moros?
Oil baron, I guess. The Moros are associated with gemstones and wealth that comes from underground. Although that's probably giving too much credit.

>>43578808
Fairy nuff.

>>43575695
>I liked Mage 1e, but the art felt like a images of rejects from a bad Halloween party.
>one fat guy in the whole book
>seer of the throne

>>43578934

The representation of the earthly representation of terrifying concept-gods: The local country club head and anime antagonist woman #12. Thanks, 1e core.

>>43578874
>The Supernal is another layer of the Lie. It seems like the ultimate truth, but it's only there to keep you from looking deeper and realizing that it, too, is as much a falsehood as the 'real' world.
I get the feeling you don't understand Mage's metaphysics very well.

>>43576479
Pretty sure it mentions that in the corebook. Also, it says that not all Heroes are evil and some dedicate themselves to healing the Primordial Dream, they just don't tend to come across Beasts because they aren't looking to murder them.

>>43576819
>Heroes, just from what I've read in my sources,
Go read the actual update. Heroes are less like that now. They also changed "Internet Arguments" to "Arguments".

>>43576706
Do Werewolf/Werewolf pairings not give birth to Wolfblooded?

>>43578979
There were pictures of Seers in the corebook?

>>43577119
>would something not-shit come from tying the Beast, the Strix and the Mother of Monsters together?
My reasoning is already that the Dark Mother is The Crone.

>>43577354
This is actually a good point. "We've gone up against something like this before. This one seems to have more control over it's power; instead of the mob going after him, he's got control of it. We're still not sure if he's aware he's doing it, but either way he's trouble."

Also, I've said it before, I'll say it again: Beast is Geist 2.0. Potential missed.

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>>43579257
When Carlton Banks grows up.

A few things.

> WOD TV show
The show was picked up by Cinemax, was prepped and principle photography was about to start when the lead star was killed in a motorcycle accident. An entire second season that went into a lot more detail-such as introducing Tremere and the Sabbat-were in the works. The quality was about Vampire Diaries level. Not great, but good.

> Underworld copyright infringement
White Wolf had a novel out that reflected the storyline of Underworld pretty closely. The author of said novel has, to my knowledge maintained that the producers stole her novel's story. It isn't only that, however. The male lead literally becomes an abomination, something detailed in the books and matching the details described in the books: they usually go insane and they retain their Werewolf gifts from Gaia.

> oWOD not selling as well
Source, plz. Kickstarter isn't a preorder service, mang. Look on DriveThru RPG for sales figures. KS is far, FAR from the whole story. The core books largely do waaaay better than side books in KS as well. Werewolf did phenomenally well, after all.

> Paradox approvals
That is awesome. Also, it's really soon to be making judgement, but I am cautiously optimistic. I've been seeing some doom seer stuff where I usually hang but I'm not about to buy into either the positive or negative hype. It's EXTREMELY premature. Remember, folks. It's not nice to leave your partner unsatisfied when you blow your load early. Take a chill pill and watch Night Stalkers followed by Hellsing TV then Trinity Blood and Hellsing OVA.

> WOD20 being "made redundant"
Bitch, plz. They do COMPLETELY different things. It's apples to oranges. Smoke a fat blunt and chill.

For video games, I want an ARPG kinda like classic SNES Shadowrun. We almost had that as a Werewolf game, even! There's a prototype out there, even. That would be kinda cool. I love me some Shadowrun Returns, but it's not quite the SNES Shadowrun style.

>>43577488
Read the Translation Guides.

>>43576981
What makes you say that?

>>43579290

My favorite part of the signature character art in Mage 1e is that it HAS to have a close up of their face in the corner. It made the Silver Ladder signature even more hilarious.

>>43579325

I have! The only one that bothers to truly approach uniting the settings is Demon. There's piece meal suggestions on how to being a part of one setting into the other in previous ones, but no actual full on fusion attempts. Besides, I assume Dracula's gonna pull something bigger than those and the response is going to be amazing.

>>43577516
>>43577485
There are several things that get "FILE NOT FOUND". That's what Analysts are for in the first place. To find the file. You make it out like the second there's any sort of doubt that the G-M doesn't know what it's doing the Angel Falls. Except that the God-Machine doesn't know what it's doing and may not even have a will in the first place. It's an ant colony. It doesn't have a brain, it has thousands of individual parts that work in sequence in a way that looks like controlled intelligence.

Even then, the God-Machine isn't going to want to avoid FINDING information in the first place. The senseless machine of bureaucracy is going to want to catalogue what it can. The issue, if any, is that it has trouble controlling and communicating with any agents that it sends out to parts unknown. Think of it like a probe sent through a Stargate. There's no way to communicate with it because it's far too outside of your reach.

>>43577617
>>43577516
>Also, how known do you guys make the Cheiron Group?
Monsanto for medicine. I also don't have them as just murderously seeing cartoonish dollar signs all the time. Murdering something is actually a really bad way to study it. Mostly at this point I just find the "Cheiron will cut any supernatural apart no matter what" meme really annoying.

>>43579179
The real lie, IMO, is the idea that the supernal and fallen are supposed to be seperate

>>43579434
Cheiron actually has some supernaturals on payroll, canonically, I believe. Semi-reliable sources of hedge fruit, summoned beings, relics, etc are worth more to them than another vampire corpse.

>>43567886
Actually, i'd say they all represent aspects of multiple tribes.

The ivory claws represent the dickish elitists, whether black fury, shadow lords, wendigo, or silver talons, or any elitist group in another tribe.

The predator kings represent the "FUCK DA HUMIES" which is the red talons signature, but most of the tribes had an undercurrent of that.

The Fire-touched represent the omnipresent dogmatism and "rabid" behavior of OWoD wolves, found in any tribe.

Very few of the old tribes would find homes among the forsaken, though Glass Walkers, Bone Gnawers, Silent Striders, and Children of Gaia might.

>>43579759
>Glass Walkers
Muh Iron Master niggas

>>43578326
But Vampire was full colour.

>>43579852
Iron Masters are more about change and civilization than Technology.

>>43578779
Saigon? Or just the entire country?

>>43578747
I'd do Hunter, you could do an awesome TFV version of Apocalypse Now. Rogue hunter teams up with spirit-claimed natives and wages a secret war against vampires within the S. Vietnamese regime, but ends up looking like an insane renegade killing US allies.

>>43579954
The entire country really.

>>43578610
>You can get a lot for a core kickstarter (increasingly less, especially when the next one is fucking Changling) but the supplements are barely breaking stretch goals.
I don't particularly like oWoD, but what makes you say that? Is there any hard evidence? It's not like OPP publishes their marketing data. Even the DrivethruRPG information is just "here's where they are in a list".

>>43579179
I get the feeling you don't understands that I was making an analogy to The Matrix. The Supernal equivalent isn't the last layer; Zion is likely just as false as The Matrix.

>>43579294
>White Wolf had a novel out that reflected the storyline of Underworld pretty closely.
No closer than "Werewolf-Vampire Romeo and Juliet". All the beats are things that come naturally to such a story.
For one thing, the male lead becomes a perfected being (who still needs his girlfriend to do everything in the sequel while he "What is going on?!"s)

>Watching Trinity Blood
But it's bad.

Where is this Werewolf RPG prototype?

>>43579852
>>43579759
Glasswalkers and Lupus are two of the only neat ideas in Apocalypse.

>>43579900
Yeah, but technology comes out of that. They're the ones most likely to be using credit cards and hacking. Not to say others won't as well, but it's within their purview to do that.

>>43580001
You could really go with almost any splat.

Vampire have old school Colonial French Invictus fighting to keep their puppets in control of the South while Carthian firebrands stoke the flames and help the Vietcong infiltrate and destroy, all the while working their way into the high positions of Ho Chi Minh's revolutionary inner circle, assuring their dominance over the country postwar.

>>43580012
>I don't particularly like oWoD, but what makes you say that? Is there any hard evidence?
The Kickstarters for supplements. Shattered Dreams, basically Dark Eras for Werewolf the Apocalypse, is sitting at 48k of 40k with 10 days left. The other supplements Anarchs Unbound and Hunters Hunted both barely manage to get over the KS goal.

>>43580049
>but it's within their purview to do that.
That's Apocalypse talk. Anyone can do that shit. And the idea of Change is pretty much as far away from Weaver-followers as it gets.

>>43580076
I would like to see how you could do something with Promethean during the 'Nam war.

>>43566584
>>TV Shows
>Already been done, was crap.
Considering the popularity of shows like Game of Thrones with it's emphasis on politics and backstabbing and a vague, impending apocalypse, it seems like a WoD/VtM show would be a pretty easy fit.

>>43580129
You could easily base a series just on the concept of the VtR clanbooks.

>someone is forcing you to get information about your clan, holding your friends/family/life/information hostage
>mystery and conspiracy abound! danger around every corner! occasional hot sex!

>>43579885
all I recall is it will have full colour pieces and monoscale ones, like werewolf. I'm remembering reddish monoscale vampire art pieces but hey, maybe they were in blood and strix or 1e or something.

>>43580012
>The Supernal equivalent isn't the last layer; Zion is likely just as false as The Matrix.
Except there's nothing false about the Supernal. According to Imperial Mysteries, the "Fallen World" isn't a "fake reality" either.

Where should one start in checking out WoD?

I read the NWoD core book a few years ago, as well as VtR after having played the Vampire Bloodlines game.

Now I actually have a gaming group and might be able to try it things seem to have changed a bit.

>>43580345
What game are you interested in?

>>43580161

>occasional hot sex!

>an entire generation of TV watchers getting into the concept of Vampire sex

Good god. We have to stop this future.

>>43580366
Yes cause it's not like Dracula, Buffy, Angel, the Vampire Diaries and True Blood happened yet.