Last thread >>43486853Useful links now here:http://pastebin.com/JtFH682qLink for the Trove:https://mega.co.nz/#F!3FcAQaTZ!BkCA0bzsQGmA2GNRUZlxzg
>>43531687
/tg/ gets shit done.
Help TroveGuy make our OSR Zine!
Email address for submitting to the zine:
[email protected]
>>43531687
Logo of the fanzine.
>>43531809
Transparent background version.
>>43527566
The 10 minute move turn includes exploring the area, noticing all obvious features, mapping the region, talking, etc. It's purposely left with a good deal of wiggle room for "what goes on" so as to reduce the tracking overhead for the DM.
Players want to argue about stuff? Cram it into the move turn.
And as for sneaking, anyone who wasn't clanking around with chain mail and a big sack full of metal objects could move quietly, and monsters would have a 1-in-6 chance of hearing them. The thief who moved silently gave them a 0-in-6 chance, and if he failed his roll, it would be the regular 1-in-6.
Gygax just didn't explain adequately that a failure on the Thief skills shouldn't be "you got caught, you suck at thief stuff lol!"
Sup /osrg/. Let's talk about clerics. How do you like to handle them in your game? Are they part of church hierarchy or lone saints? Do you do anything to differentiate clerics of different gods/religions/whatever from each other?
>>43532242
I prefer to think of them as armored divine spellcasters. Whereas a paladin would represent a martial aspect of divinity, clerics represent the more scholarly path.
I would think that anyone devoted to their god would be represented differently. In my campaigns, paladins and clerics start to reflect aspects of their gods, especially when casting spells or doing a heroic deed in their god's name.
>>43532475
>paladins and clerics start to reflect aspects of their gods, especially when casting spells or doing a heroic deed in their god's name.
Interesting. Tell me more.
>>43532242
One of the faiths of my world is dualistic, influenced by various Gnostic sects including Manichaeism, and is likewise considered a heresy by the more "orthodox" groups. To reflect their adherence to the light, they can only cast spells during the day, among other small thematic limitations. However, they are renowned spearmen (and often make use of serpentine decorations) and I'd allow a PC cleric of this faith specialize in spear. Like many Gnostic sects, the organization of this faith is relatively horizontal in comparison to their more orthodox counterparts, although their rise to power in some parts of the world has lead to the development to a more hierarchical institution than was seen with Gnostic groups in the real world.
>>43532549
>>43532549
Vokujin is the goddess of fire and civilization in my campaign. When her followers cast a spell and do it well enough to warrant Vokujin's attention, they take on a fiery countenance. A cleric who lays his hands on a friend and has an especially good roll will have their hair transformed into languid tongues of (harmless) fire.
When a paladin of Arkituthus (oceans and knowledge) invokes Turn Undead and gets an especially good roll, their skin may become radiant scales until the end of the battle.
>>43532854
So it's mainly just cosmetic stuff?
I personally don't like clerics being very combat focused or armored, especially in games where paladins are a thing. Maybe a little buffer then Wizards but I don't know.
Personally I like Clerics that kind of actually feel like they are invoking their gods for something, not just like new spell lists. I fluffed it as people who try to justify entities in the spirit realm as Gods by attributing things to them. Oh that bird just fell out of the sky dead? That must be the work of the Reaching One! Etc.
The other priests are more traditional and worship the planets.
>>43532889
Yes, until their followers start getting into the high priest circles. NPCs who have spent their lives in devotion gain additional powers. I guess these could be seen as additional spells or monstrous abilities, but for right now they're all DM fiat. For instance, the high cleric of the deity representing twilight and diplomacy can understand any language, even long-forgotten ones. Her presence also has a sphere of influence which dims all light around her.
Arkituthus's priests have water breathing and bioluminescence. This has allowed them to store their most precious works safely in underwater caverns, carved into special tablets of shells taken from monstrous tortoises.
So far none of the players have reached this stage on their spiritual journey yet; the traits are mostly used as a sign that the gods have a direct interest and influence on human events, even if their agents never visit the mortal plane.
>>43531962
>And as for sneaking, anyone who wasn't clanking around with chain mail and a big sack full of metal objects could move quietly, and monsters would have a 1-in-6 chance of hearing them.
Do you have a page cite for this in OD&D or whatever? Greyharp's fine, but not a retroclone.
>>43532242
>Let's talk about clerics. How do you like to handle them in your game?
I just use them as belligerent, Odoesque bishops and friars. I see the OD&D setting as a combination of Robin Hood and Dark Ages Europe in terms of the human culture, that's what makes sense to me. The cleric clearly isn't some holy hermit or cenobitic scribe.
(Read some contemporary chronicles, like the History of the Franks. Plenty of priests who don't believe in sedentary and pacifism)
So how do you handle things like weapon proficeinces or masteries in old school? Are there just no mechanics for it or do you just kind of abstract it?
>>43534358
BECMI has weapon mastery rules that are pretty good (but a little complicated.)
>>43534358
>So how do you handle things like weapon proficeinces or masteries in old school? Are there just no mechanics for it or do you just kind of abstract it?
In very strict old school thought weapon proficiencies are limiters on weapon use no matter how you do them (e.g. even giving +2 with slings effectively locks you into slings), thus they're only used to regulate combat ability between classes. Fighter types can use all weapons, magic-users only a few. In OD&D that's the only weapon proficiency system.
Holy fuck /OSRG/, thank you for the trove. I'm going to get my DM a nice flash drive and put a lot of the material (particularly the GM resources) on there for him. He's always looking for new material to chew on, and I think he would appreciate it. Also, he's recruited me as alternate/future DM, so I've been reading the GM resources religiously for the last few days.
Does anybody here actually use set settings? How many use or prefer homebrew settings?
I feel like half the fun of DMing is campaign creation and world building, it just boggles my mind people would prefer to use somebody's else's material that they will never fully be able to understand or emulate.
>>43536141
For me, settings exist to plunder for ideas. It works. The only setting I might consider running is the Doomed Slayers one.
So does anybody in OSR actually get games together?
Also; Would anybody actually want to play a game with homebrewed mechanics/magic or do people just want the classic stuff with little to no modification?
>>43536641
I play a B/X game twice a month in which we stick pretty close to the rules as written. I tend not to introduce house rules very easily, but I do realize the ability to modify is probably one of the strengths of OSR games.
>>43536141
most of the settings for OSR games I've contemplated using are either homebrew settings(like one for ACKS I've been tinkering with for months based on this map, among several other ones I fiddle with), or are pre-made settings that are aren't super in-depth in nature(like the implied setting for OD&D), with pretty much only two exceptions, Mystara/Known World/Hollow World(cause in many respects it's the best setting TSR ever came up with), and Pellinore(TSR's house setting for it's UK imprint that is quite brilliant)
>>43536296
Isn't Doomed Slayers more fit as a paradigm applied to your own world?
>>43536641
I occasionally run OSR games with my online group. I've been toying with running an irregular online B/X game where we run through old TSR modules, mostly because I've never really run modules like that and it could be fun to run a string of them.
But I'm usually either tired from work on the weekdays or else hanging out with people on the weekends, so I've got to make time for it to happen. I'll keep everybody here posted though, if it does happen.
>>43537155
Thats a great map, any more?
>stealing this for my game.
The Official AD&D Coloring Album by Greg Irons & Gary Gygax
I can't post the link because 4chan thinks its spam
>>43538706
It's from dominions, the vidya, IIRC. It's a fan mod map, the official ones are kinda lame.
>>43531687
Not sure if this is old news, haven't checked in for a while, but what happened to the mediafire trove?
>>43539162
Anon! I must have this! Could you take a screen shot of the link and post the image!
I'll be your best friend!
>>43539236
Just type in "official AD&D coloring book" in Google.
>>43539162
>>43539236
>>43539292
>>43539292
Oh, I thought that you were talking about a PDF link.
>I guess I'll be your friend anyway.
>>43539162
>>43539236
>>43539292
>>43539326
Only in 1979 was there a Coloring book like this!
AD&D Coloring Book Page 7
My favorite part is on the next page Gygax gives a synopsis of the scene in game terms.
>>43539330
The whole book is there in high rez jpeg. You could easily turn it into a pdf.
>>43539370
Already been done.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/3ryrgiy96ye42ll/D%26D+Coloring+book.pdf
>>43539382
>Achievement Unlocked: Friendship
before I cut up my copy for scanning does any one have this British Oddity from the Golden age of gaming (1980)
Fantasy Wargaming: The Highest Level of All by Bruce Galloway
>>43539382
How do I submit this to the trove?
Hope I don't damage the kids psyches by printing this out for them to color. Lol they are 7 and 9.
>>43536641
I run an online game every Saturday - though admittedly, the last few weeks we've missed more than not. The system is fairly home brew. It started as B/x with some AD&D bolted on. When our all-Orc raider campaign went on hiatus, we switched to LotFP and then started adding a few house rules here and there as needed/desired.
Honestly, half of the OSR scene seems to be about hacking the system. Even with the classics, there isn't a lot of dogmatic "but the rules say!" simply because a lot of editions really needed the DM to make judgement calls, and most people seemed to wind up customizing things to their needs and taste overall.
>>43536141
I tend to play almost exclusively in homebrew settings. I will go through other settings for ideas to take, but my OSR games tend to be exploration sandboxes, so making them from scratch is generally more useful to me.
>>43539198
The original media fire trove died several months ago, victim of a takedown request we must assume. I had copied much of it (one file at a time - I didn't even know there was software floating around) so when it went down I uploaded my personal collection to mega.
>>43539382
... Printing this.
>>43539500
Upload something here or link to a file host. I try to follow these fairly closely and add anything that gets submitted.
>>43531750
>>43531781
Speaking of submission - HOW ARE THE ARTICLES COMING?
>>43539484
I've been looking for a PDF of this
>You know, for when you need the stat blocks for the Virgin Mary.
Does anyone have this? I might have missed it, but I couldn't see it in the Trove anywhere.
>>43539910
>I uploaded my personal collection to mega.
Well, I'm grateful for that. I've never used it before though, do you need an account to download, like 4shared, or do you just need to click the download links?
>>43539910
>Speaking of submission - HOW ARE THE ARTICLES COMING?
>Peculiar Portals: Door and gateways of unusual passage
>Selachii: Describes a possible encounter between a shark knight and her pilot fish handmaidens
>Garden of Rao-Jan: A puzzle room located in the god of gardening's temple.
I will also provide an illustration for each, though they will probably be submitted at the eleventh hour depending on various factors.
>>43540065
Mega needs you to make an account. Not sure about others, but it's simple enough to make a burner email.
>>43540065
>>43540517
I don't have a Mega account and I can download just fine. It's fast and has no stupid click-throughs or countdowns.
Although I did notice using the website on a mobile device requires an app. That feels pretty backwards to me.
>>43540065
mega doesn't
on mobile I think it does so just use a desktop or laptop and you should be in business
>>43540065
>>43540612
>>43540629
>>43540517
Sorry, I misread that as "upload" for some reason. You're absolutely right. Anyone can download from mega. You need an account to host files.
Not the other guy, but on the subject. Whenever I've tried to download a mega file, it just says its been added to a "transfer queue" and nothing happens, is that just really slow and I never waited long enough?
>>43541211
Mega does some interesting shenanigans with its download system. If you look at the bottom left corner on most versions of its UI, there's a little circle that fills in as a progress bar. If you click on it, it should show you the transfers in progress.
In theory though, yeah. It should do its thing if you wait long enough.
>>43539910
MAD SURGERY is WiP, coming in soon.
I might whack some stuff from my GM's book at you, it seems zineable.
Should I get the core rulebooks (PHB, DMG, MM) of AD&D 2e for $44 each?
I think it's the black revised edition.
Is it worth it?
>>43541514
I say do it.
>>43541540
They also have all three for OD&D for around $33 total, but I think I'd enjoy AD&D better
>>43541514
If you're playing 2e, it's a good deal. I'd like to have some just for having in my library.
I'd love to get reprints of all of the stuff, really. The OD&D books, AD&D reprints, and AD&D2e reprints.
>>43541602
They also have 1e reprints out there that are pretty good.
>>43541672
No, I'd be new to both AD&D 2e and OD&D
>>43541704
There is a lot to be said for either edition. This is one of those topics that gets discussed at length, because while they mechanically seem fairly similar, AD&D2e takes some different directions in its focus and design.
What kind of gaming do you want to do?
>>43531750
Are poetry or short stories acceptable submission content?
>>43541919
Not him but when people talk about AD&D versus D&D (or OD&D), what versions, specifically, are they comparing?
I've read through both versions of Basic D&D and skimmed AD&D 1E and 2E. I actually looked up some comparisons earlier, but they were mostly simple opinions ("X is much better!") or an exhaustive list of differences (there was even an official TSR one, republished on a blog).
I really like the feel of Basic (especially B/X) but it does feel lacking with a few things, particularly dice checks for activities outside of combat, forcing down doors, etc. Although, there is a paragraph in the DM section that recommends rolling a d20 under your relevant ability score (maybe with some modifier) and I thought that was a great way of handling it.
But on the flip side, AD&D seems like it gets bogged down with too many tables and non-combat proficiencies.
>>43539910
I have the rules and stats for the Dwarf Elder done, I just need help putting the three tables together.
>>43542122
Your general lexicon can go as follows:
> OD&D
Refers specifically to the white box pamphlets and the stuff that came out as supplements. This was the whole of D&D until the first Basic and Advanced games came out.
> Basic D&D
There are a few versions of this. Holmes comes out in 1977. Moldvay Basic (B/x) comes out in '81. Mentzer's BECMI comes out in '83. In 1991, the BECMI series is condensed into the single volume Rules Cyclopedia. Holmes is the least popular of these, seemingly meant less as a stand-alone and more as an introduction to AD&D. B/x seems to be the most well-regarded for simplicity. Most clones seem based on this as well. BECMI/RC has a lot of fans though, and adds in some extra stuff like Weapon Specialization/mastery. Either one of these will serve you well as the basis for a game.
> AD&D
AD&D breaks down into two editions. 1e comes out in 77, opposite the holmes basic book. It was written by Gygax and contains his signature prose style. Among the OSR crowd, its usually the favorite. 2e comes out in 89. Gygax and his prose are gone (from the company, in fact). The book has some good rules revisions in many places, but changes in tone and focus, leading to a mixed reception for a lot of people. This is explained further in pic related.
> D&D
I have to assume when people (at least in this thread) refer to D&D, it's referring to the family of mechanics as a whole. This is relatively easy to do, as from OD&D to AD&D2e (and even the majority of modern OSR games) the mechanics are largely cross-compatible.
>>43537764
There's a brief setting overview included as an example of ways different societies might use slayers.
What does /tg/ think of Stars Without Number?
I just read through it and it's pretty exciting. But it's pretty heavy and definitely not a "one-shot" kind of game. Plus I've never ran or played in a sandbox-style campaign before.
Any experiences with it?
>>43542635
I've read the book. I like the idea of it, and there's some great material in the book. I just don't know if I like the skill system that's been bolted on. Never had the chance to play it though. It might work well in practice.
>>43542635
Yeah it's my main game right now.
We kind of homebrewed the setting a little to make it work better for us, to facilitate sandbox play earlier and to make it easier to add or remove players.
>>43542730
The skill system is great, no complaints. It's got the most streamlined yet customizable skillsets I've seen since BoL
>>43539910
Do you have specific dimensions in mind for the PDF pages?
>>43542730
Yep, the skill system is the one thing that bothers me. But it often makes the point that it's optional.
It gives some guidance for using the game without skills, but I think I'd prefer it if there was still a system for skills, just without skill checks. So you can become a level 2 in Vehicle/Space, but you don't roll 2d6. You're just more capable than someone without that training. Maybe there's still a difficulty number, so that a level 1 might fail whereas a level 2 succeeds.
>>43542635
I like it for the most part, but I think it's misleading to associate it with OSR, don't think it really suited to dungeon crawling in particular. My group feels more Star Trek-y with extra killing.
>>43543015
Well it uses the standard ability scores, saving throws, etc. You could run nothing but science-fiction dungeon crawls with it. But obviously that's not its purpose, so I'm wondering if it's just an interesting experiment or a genuinely good game. It's more meaty than I'm used to (something like 250 pages, including an assumed setting).
>>43543015
Our group is like Star Trek + Firefly, but it's taking a big shift now into I dont know what.
Basically our game is set like 100 years before the normal campaign setting
>>43542122
>forcing down doors
Moldvay Basic p.21
>NORMAL DOORS: Doors in a dungeon are usually closed, and are often stuck or locked. A lock must usually be picked by a thief. An unlocked door must be forced open to pass through it. To force open a door, roll 1d6; a result of 1 or 2 (on 1d6) means that the door is forced open. The roll should be adjusted by a character's Strength score adjustment. The number needed to open a door can never be less than 1 nor greater than 1-5.
>Once a door is opened, it will usually swing shut when released unless it is spiked or wedged open. Doors will usually open automatically for monsters, unless the door is held, spiked, or closed with magical spells.
Mentzer Basic D16 has similar rules, except flipping it so that you need to roll 5-6 and add the strength modifier to the roll.
By the way, Mentzer's better if you're a first-time roleplayer who wants to learn how to play roleplaying games but pretty bad if you're an experienced roleplayer who wants to use the books as reference books. You'll need the Rules Cyclopedia for that, probably. Or just B/X.
There's a bunch of rules differences between B/X and BECMI, but in just BE I don't know of too many. (Companion onwards screwed the Thief somewhat terribly, for example.)
>>43543074
It's genuinely a good game, maybe the best space opera game on the market right now (OSR or no.)
My chief issue with og D&D stuff is how utterly random most rolls are, given that you've got like -1s and +2s, at most, for 90% of any given campaign. As such, 3d6s seem like an easy fix, has anyone tried this?
>>43543015
You could dungeon crawl through abandoned space stations or settlements.
>>43543201
I like to use 2d10 myself since 3d6 is a little too much of a bell curve.
I find it slightly increases player power level actually as a +2 bonus means they'll consistently roll in the 12-14 range.
The small bonuses seem to matter more since instead of rolling between 3 and 22 with a 5% chance of any of those numbers, an increase in a score moves to average rolls up.
>>43543173
My bad, I meant activities outside of combat and forcing down doors, which it specifically has rules for. Yet there are no rules for something like a non-thief climbing a difficult surface, besides some guidance in the DM section.
>>43543325
Basically the way b/x works is on an assumption of competence on the part of the PCs. Take what you're saying about climbing for example. The early editions don't explain this well, but the idea is that a Thief's Climb Walls roll means specifically sheer surfaces with no obvious handholds-- basically, a thief is more or less Spider-Man. But if there are handholds or holes or a rope to climb on, there's no point in rolling because your characters are adventurers and should be assumed to be good at climbing. When you're not sure if it's something they should be competent at, you can use the ability check rule if it's something that it makes sense for their natural talents to be relevant to, or use a 1-2 on 1d6 roll if it seems like it's mostly down to circumstance-- this isn't spelled out, but the precedent for it is set by things like Elves noticing secret doors and the like.
Or you can stick a simple skill system in, like for instance LOTFP does.
Which do people like more; Copper standard, silver standard, or gold standard?
>>43543581
I kinda go back and forth. Gold standard is good because it's familiar and accessible, but silver standard has the advantage of making gold feel more like treasure... I don't feel like there's much point in a copper standard though.
>>43542730
The SWN skill system is pretty much the Traveller skill system, which is great.
>>43543282
How significant the difference between 1d20 and 2d10, generally speaking? I like the idea of every mod being truly significant, but you'd have to work a game from the ground up if you wanted +1s to be the equivalent of +3s w/out breaking it.
>>43543173
>By the way, Mentzer's better if you're a first-time roleplayer who wants to learn how to play roleplaying games
I'm skeptical of this. Maybe if you have no clue at all what role-playing is, but that's exceedingly rare these days, and if you're already hanging /tg/, you're good. I didn't learn with Mentzer, so this is all conjecture, but I really think that the attempt to baby you through the process actually makes things harder. It's like reading those old World of Darkness books, where information is buried inside story text and I got increasingly frustrated because I just wanted to get to the damn rules of the game. You get information bit by bit in Mentzer, and if you want to figure out context for the stuff you just got, or see how it works with the rest of the system, then good luck. Maybe different people learn in different ways, but if you just give me a piece, it doesn't do me much good. It's like looking at few pixels of picture and trying to understand them by themselves. You need the bigger picture to make sense of things. And the whole babying-you-through-the-processes thing just gets in the damn way of you learning the systems. Or at least that's my take.
>Companion onwards screwed the Thief somewhat terribly, for example.
The thief progression got slowed from the beginning. Mentzer does standardize the cleric spell progression, however, which is nice.
>>43543626
Silver, by far. It's closer to how things were historically (if that means anything for you) and that helps me a lot in verisimilitude. I tend to play low(er) fantasy settings, so it always bugs me that peasants routinely are walking around with gold coins.
Making silver your standard also means you'll get more life out of copper coins (which are now only one order removed from the primary currency) AND make gold more valuable, because it makes larger sums of wealth portable.
>>43544312
>Maybe if you have no clue at all what role-playing
That would be the author's intent, yes. It's less useful these days, of course, especially if you're the type that would actually track down a copy of Basic.
Personally I prefer Moldvay since it's got MUCH better organization, but Mentzer's solo adventures are pretty good at easing you into things.
They just suck for future reference.
>The thief progression got slowed from the beginning.
Mentzer's Basic/Expert thieves have +5%/level until level 5 when some split into +10%/level and level 12ish where they slow down to fit the rest of the 99%-max progression under level 14.
Mentzer's Companion set, though, changes it so that they have ~70% at level 15 and reach 90-99 at level 25.
Master then has a revised 1-36 table, where they get +5%/level until level 9 when it slows down to +4%/level, which (using Open Locks as an example) turns into +3%/level at level 13, and +2%/level at level 19.
A 14th-level Thief in Mentzer's Expert has the skills of a 16th-35th-level Thief in Master (depending on the skill in question.)
Hell, Mentzer's Expert is still using a d6 for Hear Noise.
>>43544750
Yeah, exactly.
Paladins. Do you have them in your games? How do you deal with them?
A lot is said about OSR games traditionally being more about dungeon crawling. It's very conan-esq. Get in, get loot, get out. Avoid fights when you can, maximize profits. In OD&D, Basic, and AD&D1e the primary source of XP was gold.
How do paladins fit into this? It's a class largely defined by going out and fighting evil, and in most incarnations has vows that run contrary to the idea that (like most adventurers) their motivation is getting in, getting loot, and getting out.
They seem to stick out like a sore thumb, all things considered.
>>43545770
I love paladins, but they kind of step on the toes of the cleric, so they really aren't necessary.
>>43544312
This: >>43544798
>That would be the author's intent, yes. It's less useful these days, of course, especially if you're the type that would actually track down a copy of Basic.
You have to remember that Mentzer was made for the fad days of D&D, 1983-1990 or so, and they printed literal millions of those boxes, to go out to kids who didn't know shit about gaming. For those kids it was an absolutely necessary, tested change. For a grown-ass nerd who understands the principles of games, on the other hand, yeah, it might well make it harder. They certainly recognized that the series of box sets made for a bad reference; the RC was explicitly produced for that reason. And that's why people always recommend it for /tg/ types who want to play Mentzer.
>>43545967
I always liked the archetype, but that was always the more AD&D "they are champions of good" thing with their own inherent powers than "they are divine champions" which is definitely more cleric-like. Either way, it does stick out as strange compared to other classes in early editions.
So, my ACKS campaign is going fucking brilliantly and I've now been converted thoroughly to OSR.
And it's all your fault, you bunch of faggots. Give yourselves a clap on the collective back.
>>43548121
What level? My favorite aspect of ACK is the stronghold building/world building at higher levels.
Do the GM resources in the trove help you put together a world in the spirit of OSR specifically? My DM has recruited me to run an alternate campaign since we have too many people interested, and I'd like to do it in the spirit of old-school D&D. We generally play 2e.
>>43548403
They're about halfway through second level (apart from the elves). I'm mostly loving the lethality and the fear in my players eyes every single second.
>>43548684
Keep em on edge, anon!
So I'm trying to wrap my head around this.
In OSR materials, there are a lot if bullshit things like save or die effects, how are these not cheap? Or is that the point?
>>43550214
It's not "bullshit" because the whole point is having to avoid save or die in the first place. You just have to play smart and you'll never have to roll in the first place.
>>43550214
Totally different play style. Your stats are not your primary defense. Player-skill is the primary defense. If you're rolling a save, something has already gone wrong.
>>43542039
asking again
>>43550845
Try invoking Troveguy by name.
>>43550874
Someone say TroveGuy?
>>43550845
>>43542039
> Are poetry or short stories acceptable submission content?
I actually don't have a problem with it. It wasn't what I originally had in mind, but it's cool by me. Are either of the other troll god editors online and want to weigh in?
>>43542635
personally I find it to be incredibly bland and lacking in usable content, it's probably the only OSR product I regret buying a physical copy of
>>43545770
depends on the system I use, generally though it isn't too hard to conceptually get a Paladin to fit in, just have to motivate them in a way that appeals to their mission, slaying monsters, and gaining tribute to the Church is usually enough in my opinion, at least for low level Paladins
>>43550214
part of the idea behind OSR stuff is that lower level characters can die very easily if they screw up(which is part of the reason to have as many henchmen and mercenaries as possible with you, both to use as meat shields/guinea pigs, and as potential replacement characters), and even high level characters should have common sense, although the DM should know when to fudge rolls and when not to as well, there's a reason DM screens exist after all
>>43550389
>>43550485
Alright, you SAY player skill is the first line of defense, but what if just opening the door triggers the trap? Or a wizard cursed his spell book with a death spell if you open it? How are you supposed to see or prevent these things from happening?
And seriously if every single room is a monotonous crawl of checking every object and floor tile, casting detect magic every hour, all that kind of shit seems very irritating and not fun. Dungeon crawling with danger sounds fun, but this just sounds like tiring boring nonsense.
>>43551981
GM is supposed to give you hints in the description that things are dangerous. Careful inspection is de rigeur in a dungeon crawl, which is one of the reasons the dungeon move rate is so slow. (like 120 feet in 10 minutes)
You pay close attention to what the DM says, and when you catch something that sounds fishy, you inspect THAT more closely, not everything in the entire dungeon.
>>43551981
>Or a wizard cursed his spell book with a death spell if you open it?
Well maybe you shouldn't go around opening wizard's spell books just because they're there. This isn't a video game where you're supposed to run up to everything you can and press the A button.
>>43551981
> but what if just opening the door triggers the trap? Or a wizard cursed his spell book with a death spell if you open it?
If you are my DM, and you mention there is a wizard's spell book? .. I sure as hell am assuming that there is some kind of trap involved.
Your default assumption has to be that anything worth taking is either guarded or trapped, often both. After all, if not why hasn't it been taken already?
>>43534144
(Oops, I missed your post earlier)
I don't have a page number, but I remember in Basic D&D, the elven boots specifically switched your chance to be heard by monsters from a d6 to a d10.
>>43551981
you're thinking about it the wrong way.
a saving throw is an extra chance to avoid instant death.
its dm generosity.
a character should be dead from having fucked up to begin with
>>43552160
TroveGuy, do you have an idea of what dimensions the published.pdf will be? I ask because I'd like to know for artwork submissions.
>>43552727
We haven't set a judgement down or anything, but I've been assuming it would be 8.5"x11" as a default. I'm open to someone making a compelling argument to the contrary though.
In general though, if in doubt, bigger is better and I can always down-scale something if I need to. I've got photoshop, InDesign, and illustrator on my machine so I can do whatever needs done.
>>43544798
You're looking at an early version of Mentzer Basic, which just cut and pasted the Moldvay/Cook stats, as far as I can tell. I think they went back and revised Expert to make it compatible with the Companion set (maybe even before Companion was released?). The stats in the image are from the Mentzer Expert rules, and are, I believe, the ones the game had through the vast majority of its run. They're also the ones the Rules Cyclopedia uses.
But I'm now seeing that I was at least a little bit wrong in what I was saying before. Mentzer and Moldvay thief skill levels are the same to begin with and don't start to diverge until after 5th level (though Mentzer splits Find/Remove Traps into two different skills, and changes Hear Noise from a d6 skill to a percentile skill).
>>43552219
>>43534144
This was the only thing I could find, and it deals with the characters listening for monsters, but it makes sense it would work like that the other way around too.
>>43554046
That's if we're talking Basic, of course. Not sure about OD&D.
>>43554078
that's damn near the same thing
Are there any OSR games that use insanity rules or anything?
I want to make some magic that is more flexible then normal DnD spells, but how flexible is TOO flexible?
>>43555652
I use the following houserules: WIS handles sanity, CHA mental domination. Minor attacks of either sort may cause a few points of temporary damage. For nastier stuff, you make a save, and if you fail, you roll a d6, and lose 1-5 temporary points, on a 6 you lose 5 temporary and 1 permanent point of stat damage.
Characters that drop below 3 WIS lose it and wind up gibbering in the corner or running off screaming in compass direction d8; ones that drop below 3 CHA get their minds hollowed out and are ridden around by outside forces for a while until their stats recover. (1 point a day)
It also helps that my custom save setup ties WIS and CHA to the anti-magic "Refusal" save, so damage to either of those stats leaves you at greater risk, but as long as you've got one stat, it can help shore up the other.
>>43555725
D&D magic is already pretty damn flexible, and close to OP. Good luck trying, but that's a tough nut to crack, as countless homebrewers have discovered since D&D came out.
>>43555652
The AD&D 1e DMG had some, but I couldn't tell you off-hand what they were.
>>43555772
>DnD magic is already pretty flexible
PFAFF HAHAHA
ok, seriously.
>>43555931
Once you get up to about level 6 or so and expanded your spell list, you can start to do all kinds of crazy shit.
Anybody know of any good wounding mechanics? Something like roll a percentile with high rolls being a horrible injury but very unlikely and low rolls being simple things like a leg wound that halves speed until you patch it up by making a check of some kind. Kind of want combat to be a bit more grisly.
>>43556379
I've seen some pretty in-depth critical tables floating around somewhere. For my group, we did something a bit different though. We're playing LotFP and we don't have any kind of resurrection in play. When you die, you're dead. On the other hand, we play with the notion that HP is kind of a narrative combination of exhaustion, luck, and so on and narrate damage as being a lot of near-misses, scratches, bruises and so on. When you hit zero, your luck runs out. The DM rolls on a chart that has different results from outright death to losing digits, limbs, an eye.. being horribly scarred or taking a debilitating wound that permanently reduces your HP/an ability score/etc.
It simultaneously lets the DM be a bit more brutal in fights while avoiding the "death is temporary" thing that sometimes happens in games like this.
and the like - right until you run out of HP. At zero, we roll on a chart which has results ranging from death
>>43556379
Well, it all really depends on how detailed you want it to be. Do you just want a generalized rule on handling injuries, a 1dX table of "critical hit" effects, a 1dX table of "critical hit" effects for each and every hit location, ditto but separated by blunt/edged/piercing/fire/ice/etc.?
Also, when do you want it to trigger? Do you want it to be the whole "roll a 20, roll on the table" thing? If you do, remember that the monsters will roll a whole lot of those dice towards the PCs - and the PCs might be expected to survive past the current fight, in some systems. Also, permanent debuffs mean that the player may very well have preferred their character dying and being replaced by a new one.
There's other options, of course. You can have it trigger on every hit, you can have it replace the current HP mechanic (because really, what's the point of having both), you could have it be an alternate thing that happens when you reach 0HP rather than dying, you could have the character be allowed to stay at 1HP rather than falling to 0 in exchange for rolling on the table, and so on and so forth.
It really depends on what exactly you want, and what kind of game you want to play. Do you want high-level characters to risk death with every attack roll they face? Do you want the maiming to be the end of the fight, or just the beginning? What kind of effects do you want on the roll - how horrible is the horrible injury? What's the best case scenario for a PC, and what's the worst?
Also, do you want a save vs. Death Ray or something to mitigate it?
>>43555931
One of the basic things that's emphasized in most rulebooks is that magic users can and indeed should create their own unique spells.
Does anyone have a good cover to use on a Greyharp printing?
>>43550925
>>43542039
Got here late, but yeah, I think those are totally acceptable.
If this ends up being some sort of catalogue, an assortment of ideas plucked and selected from /tg/ - which is kinda the point anyway -, then poetry/prose will not stand out negatively as long as its fiction, in my opinion.
On the other hand, if you write a piece, almost journalistic, about the OSR community in /tg/, as an example, then I would have a problem with it (or it would have to be really really really good) because it's so different from everything else in form, content, nature, intention, etc, etc...
In this case, fiction poetry, prose, is always, even in a stretch, gameable. I can put those words on a bard in my setting. So even if that's not your intention, that's what makes it as great as anything else for the zine.
Sorry for the long text, had to think about it as I wrote about it.
>>43556989
>>43557316
Hmm, what about roll for a minor wound on becoming half or a quarter hp and a major wound on being knocked out?
>>43558122
Could work out, I suppose, although you'll probably want to rejigger hit points a bit if you want low-level characters to pick up minor wounds.
Would "major wound" include a chance of instant death, or are you thinking of some kind of "bleeding out" system like D&D 3E et.al.?
What kind of system are you using, anyway? It helps to know what mechanics are relevant.
>>43558377
LotFP.
>>43558122
What about something like this?
>>43556989
>On the other hand, we play with the notion that HP is kind of a narrative combination of exhaustion, luck, and so on and narrate damage as being a lot of near-misses, scratches, bruises and so on. When you hit zero, your luck runs out. The DM rolls on a chart that has different results from outright death to losing digits, limbs, an eye.. being horribly scarred or taking a debilitating wound that permanently reduces your HP/an ability score/etc.
This is very, very similar to the WHFRP wounds/crits mechanic. And first edition WHFRP is one of the most OSR games there is that don't use D&D rules.
>>43555931
I never understand what guys like this mean, or want. Is it just code for "doesn't use mana"? Or do they actually think that a system where a spell can be literally anything as long as it's in the right ballpark for power isn't flexible? I don't get it. And I wish I did, because then I might be able to help.
>>43558122
I use this one for my LotFP campaign.
So far it's worked great, we have a legless fighter, scarred thief and the elf got her innards obliterated by a fireball.
>>43560253
Forgot PDF...
>>43560233
It means they lack imagination
>>43560233
D&D magic is pre-packaged. There isn't much in the way of improvisation there. Each spell has a very specific, preset effect. Sure, you can research and create new spells, but saying that makes D&D magic flexible is kind of like saying that a game with 3 classes has countless class options because you're free to invent more.
>>43560295
Individual spells may be pre-packaged, but their effects can often be used in a variety of ways, and if you use them as building blocks and put two or three together you can pull off some crazy stuff.
It's not the most flexible of systems, but with the sheer variety of spells in D&D, their prepackaged nature is not a huge hindrance after the early levels. By high levels the combinations you'll likely have begins to approach Batman levels of situational utility. The one caveat being that you need to have the right spells prepared, so you need to think ahead like Batman, whereas most of the "more flexible" systems I've seen mean you don't even need to do that, you just become the guy with the solution to every problem, escorted by his flunkies.
>>43560402
I'm not saying that D&D is bad for the way it does its spells; I'm just saying that it certainly isn't on the flexible end. Something like WoD Mage the Whatever is far, far more flexible. And ungrounded. And kind of vague, and kind of hard to regulate. But it's definitely more flexible.
>>43560801
Oh, I agree. I just think D&D magic can be more flexible than it gets credit for, especially if you allow all the various spells that have been published.
>>43560295
we once built a bridge out of wall of ice and web. spells in D&D are super flexible
>>43561804
What about inventive ways of killing enemies with magic items?
>Fighting dragon
>Dwarf has spider climb cast on him, walks up wall to ceiling
>Jumps once over the dragon
>Everyone thinks he is going to jump onto the dragon
>Activates Daern's Instant Fortress
>Fortress crushes dragon, Dwarf is safe since the door must always opens towards it's owner (just falls into the fortress)
>DMs face when it happened.
What should I read/watch to get into a Stars Without Number game?
I don't want to be that one guy who doesn't understand how make-believe future spaceships are supposed to work.
>>43562857
Star Trek, Star Wars, Firefly, Andromeda (the show), etc.
>>43562954
I'm sure this is a can of worms in itself, but how do I get into Star Trek? I've seen a lot of TOS and some TNG. Should I watch the whole thing? What about the animated series, later spin-offs, movies, etc.?
>>43563343
>Should I watch the whole thing?
Nope! Jesus no. Just TOS, the rest is a waste of time and mind.
>>43563343
Watch what you like
>>43563343
Each thing is kind of its own thing. For the most part, the shows are pretty episodic (with TOS and TNG being the most so, and DS9 and Enterprise being the least so), so seeing a random smattering of it isn't bad. Early TNG is pretty bad and it's pretty common for people to recommend skipping the 1st season, at least. If you don't have a million hours to spend watching something like 27 seasons of Star Trek, I'm sure you find viewing guides / recommendations for good episodes. More than a lot of shows, I think this is perfectly viable with Star Trek.
As far as the movies go, I found most of the ones with the original crew to be disappointing. TOS lost a lot of its charm and energy when transferred to the big screen. The Wrath of Khan stands out as the best of the bunch, though most of the others are okay if you aren't expecting a whole lot, with the possible exceptions of 1 (really slow and boring, or at least that's what I thought when I was young--maybe I'd appreciate it more now) and 5 (which is just *bad*).
>>43563561But only Enterprise sucks...
>>43563343
TNG had a horrible first season and then started to become good and then GOAT.
>/stg/
>>43563630
As far as the TNG movies go, Generations was okay if for nothing else than seeing TNG get translated to a movie for the first time. First Contact is probably significantly better if you can get past the flaws of the Borg (who I've never cared for), and especially the stupid Borg Queen concept. After that, the movies start feeling to me like television movies or something (albeit with higher budgets), as if they kind of lost their way.
>>43563343
Honestly, Star Trek has aged very poorly, and even the most continuity heavy entries are pretty episodic. If you want, you can find essential viewing guides pretty easily.
>>43562954
I'd go for Babylon 5 way before Andromeda.
>>43557586
Source?
I feel like asking this question is a rite of passage or something.
How exactly do you use THAC0? I'm looking at AD&D 2e.
By my understanding, it's simply given to you on a table, and you subtract your opponents AC, and the resulting number is the number you have to beat.
Then you roll, and add your bonuses to that roll.
Is that correct?
>>43565483
I like to copy out a to hit chart on my character sheet.
>>43558922
> This is very, very similar to the WHFRP wounds/crits mechanic. And first edition WHFRP is one of the most OSR games there is that don't use D&D rules.
I've never bothered to look at it, but that makes sense. GW had the exclusive license to distribute a whole bunch of shit in the 70s and that basically built their business. By the 80s they were hemoraging licenses left and right. WHFRP was a response to friction with TSR over AD&D distribution/licenses.
WHFRP basically exists as GH's attempt to replace D&D in their country.
>>43565734
Is my understanding right though?
>>43560233
I suspect it has more to do with the fact that despite having a ridiculous quantity of -possible- spells, those spells and their effects are all pre-set, and require you to choose which ones you can use ahead of time. If you pitch me a system that is "flexible" im going to assume that means flexibility in application. Having an exacting number of spell slots per day per level that requires me to lock those spells in ahead of time is the opposite of flexibility. I have a lot of versatility in choice of spells (if I have those spells), but I have zero flexibility in application of them.
>>43566602
>WHFRP was a response to friction with TSR over AD&D distribution/licenses.
>WHFRP basically exists as GH's attempt to replace D&D in their country.
I think the nature of Warhammer also plays a part. 1E was clearly written with the intention of letting you field your characters in an army (itself a highly Paleo-D&D idea), and Warhammer is a hyper-gritty setting well suited to the high-lethality D&D playstyle the writers must have been used to. In fact, WHFRP seems designed to keep its characters in that low-level "sweet" spot of grave and constant danger, rather than let them level out of it.
>>43566680
generally, but i will typically add the enemy AC to the roll myself since i don't typically reveal it to them (though they may experimentallly figure it out).
>>43566992
>>43558922
Who wants to assemble a WHFRPG folder for the Trove? 1e is the focus, but if someone also has the complete materials for 2e we can load them both.
Any tips for a level 7-8 mini dungeon for a party of 5 using Basic Fantasy RPG? They went way of the tracks and I need to 'ground them' again while I try to get them back to the main plot.
>>43567829
Bump?
>>43567829
Im not sure about Basic Fantasy, as I've not played it. In my experience though, it usually amounts to figuring out what the party actually cares about and then dangling it in front of them. What do they want? The challenge becomes "why can't they have it?" and if you want to guide them back to a main plot, then the "why can't they have it?" should be related to the stuff you want them to look at.
>>43567252
Fuck, that would be awesome. Sadly I'm not in possession of those books anymore
>>43570657
>>43567252
I've got some stuff, but I'm not sure what I have vs what I'm missing. It's also not organized in any way.
Old School Bundle: https://bundleofholding.com/presents/OSR2015
>>43567829
I think you'd best head on to the BFRPG forums. You'll probably get a better answer there. The community is pretty active from what I understand.
>>43567829
This anon pretty much has the right of it. >>43570646
In any system the trick is just to have a hook that the players want to go after.
Second, it is important to practice non-attachment to outcomes. No matter how lovingly crafted, no plan survives contact with the PCs-- use that to your advantage, instead of letting it be a liability. If you can't get them invested, if they want to go do something else, let them. If their inaction has logical consequences that their actions could have prevented, then let those consequences take effect.
>>43572743
(And if you don't have something prepared, that's okay too, just let them know what you have ready and next time try and prep something in the direction they do want to go.)
>>43556379
ACKS has a 'death and dismemberment' table you roll on when you hit 0hp. It's pretty boss.
I was thinking about setting up a sandbox recently, and starting to look stuff up. I'd heard hexcrawls were the popular thing, so that was the direction I began to research.
First thing - how detailed do you guys set up your hexes? I ran into the 'a hex is about a day's travel' rule at one point, then the six-mile hex.. then I ran into one setup where it was broken down into six-mile hexes with smaller hexes inside of it, each of which have their own hex information. How detailed do you guys actually go? Do you wind up with a witcher 3 type map when you're done?
Second - how do you come up with content to fill that much stuff? Even with random generators, wouldn't they get repetitive after a while? "It's another burial mound full of undead, no doubt.."
Sincerely,
Anonymously Overwhelmed
>>43574401
Dear Anonover,
I think a practical example would help you. Try reading Wilderlands of High Fantasy, which should be in the trove.
Yours,
Mr. Anon
(More concretely if you do check it out you'll find that a lot of the hex entries just make for a geographically distributed encounter table, and this is one classic way of doing a hexcrawl -- in this conception of things what's "in" any given hex isn't as immediately important as the dominant terrain and what you'd bump into if you rolled an encounter in that hex -- in short, the traveling stuff. Of course it matters where cities, roads, and so on are but those form the exceptions. Then later if you need to put a monastery or something somewhere, just pick a hex. "But we traveled through there!" doesn't matter, because a five-mile hex is a huge swath of terrain and having walked across it doesn't mean you know all of what's in it.)
>>43567252
>Who wants to assemble a WHFRPG folder for the Trove?
Btw, what happened to Tunnes & Trolls? IIRC they were to be added to the Trove.
>>43574401
>hexcrawls
Personally, I'm working out a system of using big hexes and going "pointcrawl" with the inner locations.
>>43574534
I've got a 146mb rar that has a bunch of stuff in a single folder. Im not sure if I got it off of one of these threads and forgot to upload it, or I acquired it elsewhere. Either way, it slipped my mind. I'll get it uploaded when I'm home, if no one's posted a superior copy before I get there.
>>43574555
Interesting. How do you arrange the points within the hexagon?
>>43574661
I don't. That's the whole point. Quantum uncertainty all the way.
If you want to get from the Hermit Hut to the Pyramid you can either walk the standard "14 hour walk" or (if you suspect gnolls got an ambush there) try to find an alternate route trough the bogs on your own (+2d6x10% time, reduced by 10% for each point of your Wilderness skill).
If you are leaving the hex, it is assumed you need to get to the "entrance" location (going NW or N? - "road to Elmore Hills"). Then you are hexcrawling. If you want to investigate some specific hex while hexcrawling - you arrive at one of the "entrance" or "open" locations of pointcrawl.
Something that constantly delights me about most OSR rules is how fast a character can be generated and ready for play. There have been many games from the 90s and onward where our group would spend the entire first session creating characters and flipping back and forth between books to make sure that we had the math right.
>>43575014
It's interesting to look at these from a historical perspective within the hobby, because the first games were literally just meant for dungeon crawling. That was the purpose, and they did it well. Over time, you see people wanting to tell different kinds of stories, and do different kinds of things.. and for each application, RPGs strived to be broader and more inclusive in scope..and thus more complex in both rules and character creation. Now that we have so many options to play with though, what we find when we're looking to play a dungeon crawl? .. That original format still works best.
Post sandbox resources?
>>43576355
One of the worst parts about running a old school game in my mind is the shopping and money management. Is there a better way to do a simplified items? Something like Adventuring Items from DW might be a bit too simple, but I'm not a fan of keeping track of X feet per gold , etc.
Also; I heard some people say it is better to run a game where people get XP per gold SPENT instead of when it is picked up so that players don't have the issue with hoarding a billion million gold pieces?
>>43576470
>>43576470
>simplified items
Like this?
There are also Wealth rating systems. And you can homerule stuff like Deep Pockets from PF Chronicler.
>>43576470
>XP per gold SPENT
That's great if you want a more sword and sorcery flavor, otherwise just give xp per gold returned to civilization.
>>43576866
This is pretty much how I run it.
>>43576470
Vornheim had a good system for shopping in a city. Too lazy to find the page, but I can summarize it here:
"Penny Items"
All the items a commoner would buy in a day (simple meals, beer, a torch, etc.) total 1 sp.
"Nickel"
Basic survival and camping equipment (lantern, rope, pole, spikes, etc.) is 5 sp/syllable.
"Dime"
Specialised equipment (thieves tools, navigator’s tools, cello, etc.) or things a commoner might only need once (chair, table, etc.) are 10 sp/syllable.
"Quarter"
Luxury goods (string of pearls, fancy shoes, men’s clothes, etc.) are 25 sp/syllable.
"Dollar"
Things that are dangerous all by themselves (drugs, poisons, dangerous animals, gunpowder, etc.) are 100 sp/syllable.
Syllables are remarkably good for a rule of thumb. Like, "silk rope" is more than "rope".
>>43577396
>El-E-PHANT is 30 gold
>Lion is 10 gold
You know what? This is really cool. Of course, kinda hard to do syllables on an online game but I'll try it out.
>>43577396
Does this assume the LotFP silver standard?
>>43577396
>>43577566
This reminds me, recently I was thinking of a (probably unoriginal and very stupid) idea for encumbrance and carrying capacity:
You can only carry what you can physically write in the "Equipment"/"Inventory"/"Gear" box on your character sheet. Writing small but legibly represents efficient packing. If you run out of space in the box, your pack is full or you're encumbered.
Certain items that are heavier or bigger have to be written in larger handwriting, e.g. they have to be written twice as big or use up two lines (if the character sheet is lined).
You could even adjust the size of the box by shading the inside edges, if you only have a sack instead of a backpack or something like that.
>>43577660
I like the concept, but it makes weird stuff happen like a "silver necklace" takes up more space then a club.
>>43577566
>>Lion is 10 gold
IIRC it's silver standard and gold is something like 20 silver (or was it 50?).
>>43576554
One of the reasons I like Moldvay Basic. No compare that arms and armor list to this abomination. (Mind you, I actually like Castles & Crusades overall, but this list is just stupid.)
>>43577652
Yeah, it's an LotFP splatbook.
>>43577566
How the heck do you pronounce lye-uhn that makes you think it's only one syllable?
>>43577834
Or that a lion is either "specialized equipment or something a commoner would need only once?"
I would think a lion is either a luxury item, or more likely, "something that is dangerous all by itself."
>>43577396
It may be heresy, but I don't bother with "pocket change". Folks can buy a meal, have a few drinks and so forth, and I don't bother marking shit off people's character sheets. Another way of looking at it is that there is a small amount of ghost money that I don't bother ever telling the players that their characters have. It's just not worth doing inventory for the little shit. Now, if the party just loafs about town for an extended period of time, I'll start marking off X money per day or something, but otherwise I don't sweat it.
>>43577868
He treated lion as "dangerous animal" with 1 syllable (100 sp) and then converted silver to gold.
>>43577773
This is about the worst thing I've ever seen, as far as D&D goes. Why the fuck is POLISH HUSSAR armor its own entry?! Who would ever think something that narrow needed specific detailing?
>>43577928
>Who would ever think something that narrow needed specific detailing?
10-foot Pole.
>>43577773
That's so silly.
Although I do like having the price of mundane items. But it should be in its own section or something. It's nice when you're building some kind of stronghold and you realize you need a bed frame, mattress, wardrobe, etc. It's like The Sims with graph paper.
>>43577969
>>43565483
It's actually stupidly simple.
THAC0 was intended to be a simplification of 1e's massive to-hit matrices.
But, basically: To Hit Armor Class 0 is the number you need to roll on a d20 to hit an AC of 0 (with the extreme ends of the AC spectrum being 10, the worst, and -10, the best*).
Lower THAC0 is better. You'll see why in a moment.
If you have THAC0 of 15, and your opponent has an AC of 8, you need to roll a 7 or better on the die to hit them (15-8; you subtract positive AC values from THAC0. I know, it sounds retarded but it isn't. It's just math).
If your opponent has an AC of -2, you'd need to roll a 17 or better (15+2; obviously, you add better/negative AC values to your THAC0 in order to figure out what you need to roll. If you want, you can think of it as 15-(-2) instead if that helps).
*Some monsters, such as great wyrm dragons can have ACs as low as -12, and there are modifiers in the combat chapter that can lower AC even more. But, basically, it's just adding and subtracting. Or just subtracting, honestly.
>>43577928
The equipment list in the quickstart rules is actually much more reasonable, though I will admit that I'm a fan of Basic D&D's super-streamlined approach (leather armor, chainmail, platemail, shield and you're done).
I'm trying to spice up a pseudo-retroclone I'm making by giving warrior-types interesting passive abilities which don't limit what players can and cannot do via improvisation. One ability I'm having doubts about is the one below.
Gratuitous Violence
A Barbarian of 5th level executes his foes so brutally that the grisly display demoralizes his foes. Whenever he kills a flesh-and-blood enemy all enemies within 10 feet of that enemy with less hit dice than the Barbarian must check morale or suffer a -1 penalty to hit for 1 round.
Do you feel this ability is too videogamey and breaks your immersion?
>>43578384
As long as you keep the number of these things low, it should be okay. I do, however, have other objections to that power. If all enemies within 10 feet have to save every time he kills somebody, that could get very tedious, especially if he's fighting a bunch of weaker creatures. Also, the penalty they get is small enough that it's not really worth the trouble. I don't generally bother with any effects less than +/-2 unless they are either instantaneous, or all battle long.
So if I were going to do something like what you suggest, I'd probably limit it to once per battle (the barbarian chooses whether or not to invoke it after each kill), and make it an automatic -2 to all enemies of lesser hit dice within 20' (no save). But that's just my opinion, man.
>>43578384
Depends on your group. These abilities don't have to be codified. You could create some guidelines for yourself and let that be an aid to storytelling and setting the scene for the players.
I never enforce critical fumbles on my players, but NPCs? Especially mooks? Heck yeah. Sometimes funny, sometimes advantageous to the players.
Either way, a good time.
>>43578384
>>43578537
It does sound a bit gamey to me. Honestly, if I were doing it? I'd take advantage of the existing morale rules.
As it stands, enemies should already roll morale at some point during the fight to see if they flee, and that morale test is already taken by the group - not each monster individually. At least in the versions ive read/remember.
I'd personally just make the rule "if the person gets a crit, they kill someone in a spectacularly awful way. The enemy must make a morale roll (with X penalty) or they all break and run"
Replace the specifics as you want, but it basically boils down to "this person got murdered so hard that we're taking a morale test early"
So there's an OSR Bundle of Holding
ACKS
S&W
LOTFP
So I know some people like Vancian magic and some don't, but what if your problem with Vancian magic is the spells?
>>43578704
What's wrong with Burning Hands?
>>43578704
>but what if your problem with Vancian magic is the spells?
You lost me. What the hell do you mean?
>>43579225
The spells are simultaneously too strong and too weak.
Floating Disk, for example, is written in such a way that removes many of the fun and creative aspects, where as fly and teleportation can bypass almost any puzzle to name a few.
>>43576470
>>43576866
>>43577380
Personally I think it's really cool to make money spent = xp, because as players get higher level they might just start throwing their money at luxuries to spend their huge fortunes; golden armor, tapestries, better and better food. I think it's perfect.
>>43579739
Also taxes
>>43579681
>Floating Disk, for example, is written in such a way that removes many of the fun and creative aspects, where as fly and teleportation can bypass almost any puzzle to name a few.
Ah. I understand now. Yes, there is a bit of a problem.
Well, change the spells, obviously.
For example, take a look at cleric's Create Food&Water spell - it destroys the resource management. You can either limit it (LL had only 3 portions per day, IIRC) or remove it completely (LotFP).
Now that I think about it, LotFP had removed quite a few spells (all resurrections, for example).
>>43579825
How does a government even enforce a adventuring tax?
>>43579825
Man, I hated the idea ("Hurr, I buy a thousand quarts of wine!") but you just made me love it.
>>43579886
There are some things you can't buy without legitimacy. Titles, lands, etc. Yes, you could conquer lands/invent your own titles, but in most retroclones, PCs aren't that much more powerful than NPCs, and more than that, every noble will see you as a filthy barbarian grasping for the things of his betters.
They might not be able to kill you, but you might not have any children to leave your kingdom to, if you catch my drift.
>>43579901
Also tithes, transport costs, bribes, paying henchmen/cohorts/minions, investment into business/lands, tolls for road use, research costs for spells/equipment, etc.
>>43580318
It's certainly all experience.
>>43580318
But if you can invest and make businesses does money gained and spent from that count as experience?
>>43544282
>How significant the difference between 1d20 and 2d10, generally speaking
2D10 is biased toward an average of 11 on a given roll, while 1D20 has an equal chance of every outcome from 1 to 20 on a given roll
Over an infinite number of rolls the expected value is the same
>>43581101
>expected value is the same
No, it's not.
1d20 is 10.5
2d10 is 11.0 (5.5+5.5)
>>43581101
2d10 has a very... what to say, aesthetically pleasing curve, since all probabillities are "whole" percents. Here's the roll-under probabillities:
2 - 1%
3 - 3%
4 - 6%
5 - 10%
6 - 15%
7 - 21%
8 - 28%
9 - 36%
10 - 45%
11 - 55%
12 - 64%
13 - 72%
14 - 79%
15 - 85%
16 - 90%
17 - 94%
18 - 97%
19 - 99%
20 - 100%
>>43578537
>>43578614
Just throwing my hat into the ring to say I agree with these guys. >>43578614's rule's much smoother and quicker to use - elegant.
>>43577652
I did, but Vornheim actually uses a GP standard.
>>43544282
Graphically
>>43577773
>>43576554
>>43576665
>>43578162
This may be heresy in the OSR thread but I like to use the item list from the5e basic rules.
A lot of wonky weird stuff there that's fun to mess around with, plus the example "packs" they give are easy to give to new players and watch them figure out how to use ball bearings in a dungeon.
>>43584542
While I love OSR, 5e is actually starting to edge forward in my favorite play spot.
>>43584542
I actually liked some of the early 5e playtest stuff. I thought it was a strong step in the right direction. They just kept adding to it though and it kind of got a bit fiddly for my purposes.
Honestly, I'm tempted to take a look at the 5e basic setup and then start hacking it to work/run like moldvay.
>>43576665
Where's this from?
>>43584980
LotFP
>>43585034
Oh... Huh. Guess I never paid attention to the equipment list in it until now.
>>43552906
You don't want to make the zine the tried and true landscape fold in half booklet?
>>43578074
>>43565483
Alternatively
THAC0 - roll <= AC you hit.
Very fucking simple.
People who complain about it being complicated confuse me. How did they get past first grade?
>>43585775
to be fair, part of it may be that I've heard a half-dozen or so variations on "the best way to calculate THAC0." But I agree, the complexity is exaggerated
>>43585881
Yeah. I get all high and mighty and then remember that the book was pretty bad at explaining it (IIRC that is). But that is the math put into the simplest form that does not require the DM to give the player the enemy's AC.
Otherwise it's simple algebra to change it to THAC0 - AC <= Roll.
>>43585775
Yeah, it's really not that hard. Hell, my fiancee gets it and she isn't exactly math-savvy
So tell me;
>Specific, Hermeatic, Vancian style spells
>Extremely broad spells-as-schools of magic
>Middle of the road?
Which one should I go for?
>>43552906
I assume most would be downloading this and viewing digitally. Is there a format that is best for a computer monitor?
>>43587966
I'd go for middle of the road. Spells that are flexible, but not open-ended.
>>43587966
Definitely middle of the road
What was recommended font size for the zine? Or was there one?
>>43577834
Laaaaaaahn. He's clearly from Jesustan.
Good point. A format more in line with wider monitors may be pretty good.
How many emcounters do you usually put to last a session? One of my groups only need an average of 5 to keep themselves entertained for the evening, but the other seem to breeze through them, and 25 fell short the last time. How are your numbers?
>>43594464
Combat encounters or just things you run into in a hex or dungeon? 7ish seems about right for who I play with. 4 or so combat, 3 or so mostly rp/puzzle sort of things.
What are you playing/how long are you playing for at a time where 25 encounters is even a thing?
Anyone got a DL link for Sinister Stone of Sakkara? It's not in the Trove yet.
>>43594570
I usually run for 4 hours, but that session was 8 hours long due to special circumstances.
They didn't actually complete 25 encounters, they just...encountered most of them. As soon as something appeared remotely dangerous they would back down and go to another room. I guess I need less possible paths and more combat random encounters (a good half of them were just clues to things happening) if I want them to go through things.
Or play workers & wives if they hate risk so much.
>>43592578
I'd imagine that everything is getting resized and formatted by the editors anyway.
>>43579901
I ran a White Box game with XP for gold spent. A player threw what amounts to a tribute for himself, food & drink for the town, entertainment, the construction of a thunderdome. Totally worth it.
>>43594464
>How many emcounters do you usually put to last a session?
I don't, and I think this is true of OSR referees generally. I build the dungeon and let the players fill the session as they like. Helps to run a megadungeon, I guess; it's not like they're liable to run out of stuff to do.
Specifically regarding this: >>43595050 I would very much hesitate to force them into some other playstyle, especially since caution is wise in OSR games. What I will ask is if you did the time management by the book? If the players start running into wandering monsters and out of torches they might begin to reconsider their operations in terms of expedition profitability and take more risks on that account.
(As these threads often return to, the original versions of D&D are *surprisingly* tightly designed. Time management is one of the most frequently disregarded parts of the system, but its presence is very, very motivated.)
