Is this the most well-designed card in Magic?
>>43502841
>Slidshocking Krow
>U
>Tromple, Montainspalk
>4/3
>3 cmc
>dies to bolt
That would be Goyf, JtMS or Yawgmoth's Will.
>>43503164
I see you there Doran. Hiding behind your Abzan. And I approve.
>>43503136
"Dies to removal" isn't a valid argument against using a creature and you know it.
>>43502841
Its probably a little too strong desu, Certainly a great card, and there's very few reasons not to love it.
>>43503286
also what the fuck is up with the censors. japanmoot can fuck himself.
>>43503212
not to removal but to bolt, could be casting better and more resilient spells at 3. what current format is he worth using in?
>>43503337
Shitposting was correctly identified and amusingly filtered. All is a little better in the world as a result.
>>43503337
Don't be a kek, senpai.
>>43503136
more like
>1BB: counter target removal spell
>>43503419
wow good card
>>43502841
It's one of the best cards to have as a blocker
>>43502841
It certainly shows the NWO power creep in creatures.
>>43503419
more like
>1BB: gain 2 life and opponent lose 2 life next turn and then maybe counter target bomb creature or maybe counter target removal spell next turn. Also stop posting your stupid interpretation of cards.
>>43503852
mad
>>43503171
>goyf
Fuck Goyf and it's Jank shit.
>>43503286
>Its probably a little too strong
Is it even played in any good decks?
>>43503760
Stop being dumb.
>>43504872
You and I know it isn't.
>>43504939
I'll take that as a no then.
>>43503650
id bretty grud brah
black + green confirmed min / maxed
>>43504954
Yes, generally 'no' can be taken as a 'no'.
>>43502841
Cabal Therapy is the best designed card in magic
Post OP creatures please.
>>43504963
beat my casual deck mudder fawkerz
>>43505023
>Cabal Therapy
revised / remix
>>43505023
plus Despise
Counterspell for best designed minimalist card.
Rescue From the Underworld for best top-down design.
Progenitus/Platinum Angel for best 'flashy' design.
Honorable Mentions to Boldwyr Intimidator, Murder, Dark Depths, Pain's Reward and the Hunted cycle.
>>43505447
good card knowledge
but many of those fuck up the deck
![Image[1].ashx_multiverseid=247186&type=card.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ytPKuZl.jpg "Image[1].ashx_multiverseid=247186&type=card.jpg")
>>43502841
I'm a big fan of cards like this that make the opponent make a decision upon casting.
Shout outs to Vexing Devil too, very cool card
>>43503164
okay so i have got ya in there brah
>>43505951
assholes never let me madcap my vexing devils
>>43505734
Exactly one of the cards I listed was 'broken', and that still doesn't stop it from being a well designed card.
>>43502893
Tromple breaks every card it's on and you know it.
>>43506383
it is well designed for sure, but it could have gone the way of
Slumbering dragon
>>43506575
i am obviously bored
>>43503337
Upset that Jackie 4chan messed with your thought-terminating shitposting? Aw, so sad. Poor baby is going to have to learn to mimic some other stupid bullfuck instead of creating his own sentences.
Why do people confuse "well-designed" with "powerful"? Power is decided by Development, not Design.
>>43503650
a personal fav
>>43506877
Pic related is one of my favorite cards and fits the topic of the thread as well.
Personal fav, guy's being in my goblin deck for 12 years and he's not leaving anytime soon.
>>43506512
Tromple is renown that does not t urn off like what a lot of the innistrad vampires had.
I love this card too much.
Fear me, and know my wrath is that of the divine
I think that force of will is a fantastically well designed card,
>>43504963
Ah yes, the green doom blade
I can't believe no one has posted the original answer to cluttered board-states. Wraths are a lynchpin of design in that they stop "flooding the board" from being the only long term strategy.
>>43507395
It has a keyworded ability that is very rarely relevant with those stats.
>>43507648
The gall
>>43507676
You're the one who brought up the wrath of the divine.
>>43507312
It's great flavor, but it doesn't only affect your own creatures, so the devs would nix it.
>>43503353
>could be casting better and more resilient spells at 3
Wat.
Clear winner.
>>43502841
So I have to ask with this cards Deathtouch+Lifelink.
Do you get the points of the attacking monsters toughness/life or do you get the Nighthawks 2 attack?
Pic related is also has a perfect synergy of effects and attributes.
>>43508628
I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of deathtouch. It does two damage, so you gain two life. Doesn't matter how big whatever it's hitting is, but any creatures will be destroyed
>>43508936
Ah cool, that's what I figured. Just wanted to make sure. Thanks!
>>43503397
>>43503171
Well designed != strong
>>43503171
Those are the opposite of well designed you spike piece of shit.
No judge thread so following up on the silly question here...
>>43508628
>>43508936
>>43509051
With something I had wondered about.
If an 8/8 creature with deathtouch and trample is blocked by a 1/5 creature, can it choose to assign 1 damage to the blocker ("enough to destroy it," as trample would find it) and then 7 to the defending player. or must it do 5 and 3 despite its deathtouch?
What do you mean well-designed? If we're talking about fairness then it's probably Sign in Blood or Storm Crow/ Mist Intruder. If we're talking bustedness then it's probably one of the power nine or something.
>>43510238
No you're right. With deathtouch, 1 is enough to kill it. 7 gets in unless they're double blocking or something.
>>43510612
And I changed my mind. The most broken card has to be Island.
>Taps for Blue
What were they thinking!?
>>43507648
The entire purpose of 1/1s with Trample is to get pumped the fuck up in Limited
>>43509239
Wait, This is one the list? That's a tad nonsensical
>>43504872
Have you ever drafted a format this thing was in?
>>43512443
the word 'this' is not on the list, no, they just wanted the whole phrase in the picture since they can't type it out.
>>43506512
u no can stop mai dmg
>>43507293
>>43512647
This was confirmed by GA a while back. I don't think he compared Innistrad but he said it was renown that happened every time instead of once.
>>43508044
for the same cost you could be playing better cards that will net you more value, like liliana or pic and don't die to bolt. I asked in what format he is worth using in as I can't think of a format where you would consider running him instead of other cards. all this assuming we are sticking to black and not counting 3 cost creatures in general
>>43502841
Too many keywords for an uncommon.
>>43507648
>not posting the superior version
What really sets this one above and beyond for me is the angry god face.
>>43506676
I had a Gruul countergain deck once with three Slumbering Dragons in it. I thought that if I had shit to ramp up the counters, I'd have them become 8/8's in no time.
Problem was, it sold myself short. I'd focus so much on those bastards that I'd have to sell out on the rest. In the end, I feel Slumbering Dragon is a cool concept, but way to iffy to use.
>I'm not here to babysit a single card all game long
>>43516535
There's 12 whole cards in standard that have or grant regenerate, and I don't think any of them are seeing play. Whether WoG or DoJ got reprinted it wouldn't make much difference.
>>43516610
There's also the fact that they want to try to get people to use wraths other than the default wrath/DoJ, which...doesn't happen unless you don't PRINT Wrath/DoJ at all.
>>43516632
Mfw in a couple of years the the new standard cmc for unconditional wraths is six and doj is considered op.
>>43516680
Well, technically they consider DoJ exactly right in casting cost. Which is the problem - if it's printed, everyone just runs DoJ and everything higher costed gets called garbage, or they powercreep DoJ which isn't a good idea to begin with, or they print multiple 4 mana wraths and we get Wrath the Wrathening and nobody can stick a creature.
So they decided that, while the text 'Destroy All Creatures' does indeed cost 2WW on a sorcery, that in order to try to get other stuff to be played ever, they'd just...not print that and instead print 5 mana wraths with upsides
![doomed-traveler[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/xmtGZDL.jpg "doomed-traveler[1].jpg")
Move aside, best designed card coming through. It's got the flavour, the power, yet isn't big or splashy enough that anyone considers it overpowered.
That's no Baleful Strix
>>43517987
Yeah, that's probably the best card. You get a card just for playing it, and the opponent will lose a card one way or another getting rid of it.
>>43518039
We're talking about best designed cards, not best cards. Anything considered strong in legacy can't be considered because legacy is Magic's hall of shame for design fuck ups.
Literal perfection
>>43518146
Lacks flavour.
>>43503760
NWO?
>>43516351
Admit it, you only like it because of the dead guy's ass that's nearly front and center.
I really like this one
>>43518162
It's written right there in the flavourtext
>>43518763
Yeah, that's a fun card
>>43518162
>anything from kamigawa
>lacks flavor
are you retarded?
>>43518850
Kamigawa flavor is so generic
>>43518356
New World Order, has to do with the shift to creatures and making things more newbie friendly.
>>43519181
But what does a conspiracy theory have to do with the change in mtg card design?
>>43518940
>Generic
>Kamigawa
U fockin wot. One of the biggest criticisms about the set was how alien everything was
>>43502841
>3cmc, needing two of the same color
>dies to bolt
>>43507395
infinitely better
>>43516721
Completely agree, it's well balanced, interesting, flavorful and at common level! I feel it would more defining of what commons should be, but it had to share the Innistrad block with pic related, not that I am complaining.
Innistrad seems better and better in retrospect.
Noot noot.
>>43519383
I agree, if >>43507395 was a "Creature - Beast" then they would be at least comparable but still >>43519383 would be better. "Creature - Badger" is garbage though, I can't think of anything that synergies with creature type badger.
>inb4 Adaptive Automaton, Xenograft, etc.
>>43519308
They want more people to be preoccupied with card games so that they don't notice the lizardmen using chemtrails (From UFOs) to dump mind control drugs into the reservoirs.
Or they think that a constant influx of new players > retaining players for any amount of time
>>43519314
Kamigawa is just your generic fantasy asian setting with rat people, fox people, ninjas, samurai, onis and such. There's nothing special about it.
>>43519391
Young Wolf is a bit weird from the flavor perspective though. The flavor text says you either hunt or get killed, but when young wolf dies it... comes back? What is the undying representing exactly?
>>43519482
Fantastic card, is on the edge between strong and overpowered, but remains in the strong side. When times are lean I use Master Transmuter to bounce this to my hand and then back to the field to draw a card.
9/10
>>43519391
Frustrate your opponents, either they ignore it and are pinged damage every turn,block it and it comes back stronger, or they waste a kill spell on a one drop. also makes for a great chump blocker.
9/10
>>43519383
way too strong.
elf/10
>>43518839
great commander, I dislike commander specific abilities though, just my opinion.
5/10
>>43518763
Top tier, I had a interesting W/U artifact flyer deck that was about throwing out cheap artifact flyers (Ornithopter, Vault Skirge, Hovermyr), then buffing them with tempered steel and favorable winds. (Speaking of tempered steel, it's a fantastic card, nothing wrong with it, pic related.)
9/10
>>43518146
Call me a racist, but I think the Orochi are dumb, good card though.
6/10
>>43516721
What every one drop common should aspire to be.
10/10
>>43516351
>>43507648
Iconic card.
8/10
>>43508628
>Pic related is also has a perfect synergy of effects and attributes.
Agreed, Solid card, but not outstanding.
6/10
>>43508081
Morph deck standard?/10
>>43507726
Like wrath of god but in an off color. they will never reprint. :(
9/10
>>43507514
being good is a blue attribute/10
>>43507395
not as good as >>43519383
4/10
>>43507105
same problem as >>43519383
Goblin/10
>>43506926
4/10
>>43506877
Not Doran colors, good for draft though.
5/10
>>43506676
great cards, both comboable, Sulmbering Dragon is a bit weaker/combo intensive but has great flavor.
Both 8/10
>>43506575
Not Vapor Snag, but then again, if you need to bounce your own creature, it's not Vapor Snag.
8/10
>>43505951
8/10
>>43505335
alpha/10
>>43504963
Deadlybrah indeed.
8/10
>>43503164
EDH was made for him and Zur.
10/10
>>43502841
Skub card in my group.
Skub/10
>>43519870
>Top tier, I had a interesting W/U artifact flyer deck that was about throwing out cheap artifact flyers (Ornithopter, Vault Skirge, Hovermyr)
You have the list for it?
>>43519742
I remember reading an article about undying, they were originally planning on calling it relentless and described it flavor wise as the scene in horror movies where the protagonists think they have killed the monster, only for it to come back stronger than ever. Flavor-wise I don't view it as dieing, but appearing to die then coming back stronger/angrier/older/more experienced.
>>43516721
This
>>43504872
It was played in legacy for a quite a while.
Power creep is a bitch anon.
>>43519945
... I don't... it was my standard deck for a while and my view on standard is that I never want to copy an online deck, a good portion of the fun in magic for me is figuring out decks in my spare time. I don't post decks online either. Here is what I remember... I think.
Cretures:
4x Ornithopter
4x Hovermyr
4x Vault Skirge
4x Glint Hawk Idol
4x Spined Thopter
4x Moltensteel Dragon
Enchantments:
4x Tempered steel
4x Favorable winds
Instants:
4x Dispatch
4x Vapor snag
Lands:
4x Inkmoth Nexus
4x Seachrome Coast
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Island
4x Plains
With my highest mana cost being 4 I think I only ran 20 lands... My list seems off, this is from memory when scars and Innistrad were standard. Sorry I couldn't be more help anon.
>>43502841
It was fun using that last time it was in standard. It blocked aggressively and worked well with all the vampire tribal stuff from Innistrad. It was a fun standard format overall if it wasn't for all the people using Thragtusk.
>>43520586
I seem to remember it also working well with the vampire tribal from zendikar.
One of my favorite, compare with Farbog Boneflinger, better in every way except for the BB in it's manacost.
>>43520615
It worked well with tribal without being reliant on it
>>43520667
>Skinrender kills himself if played on an empty battlefield
I like things like that. Fuck those "you may" clauses, I love threats that can potentially backfire.
>>43505447
>Progenitus
>well designed.
It isn't well designed, it's just big. There is no fun to be had with the card, it just wins or it doesn't.
>>43520706
I love it when people don't realise it isn't may. I once saw that happen with a consecrated sphinx and a notion thief. They kept activating the sphinx' effect by choice, and the opponent had to keep drawing.
>>43520450
Thanks a lot!
>>43520795
Still better than most cards designed by humans in custom cards generals.
>>43506926
Transmute was ridiculously well designed.
A pity they decided to kill combo decks around the same time they found out how to make them fun.
![239[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/D8UOIgM.jpg "239[1].jpg")
It's so perfect. Do you have any idea how hard it is to use landwalk well?
>>43520919
>Urborg
Yeah, must be rough.
>>43520873
>always put Muddle the Mixture in any blue EDH deck I build
>sometimes realize I didn't have any good options to transmute for after the fact
This is what Mythics should be about. Difficult to use and complexish rules, but oh so very powerful.
>>43520850
Nothing will ever beat this.
>>43520932
I meant from a design perspective.
>>43520850
MEGA MORPHING FLYING WALLS
>>43520706
Fuck the recent idiot-proofing, I want cards that can backfire for those sweet sweet corner cases where you want them to.
>>43520939
Alara had the first mythics, but also the best ones.
I think Magic Origins did a good job to try to recapture what a mythic should be. I don't think they knew Jace was going to blow up like that.
>>43519622
>rat people
That's a thing in Asian setting fantasy? What?
>>43520850
What's funny is it's absolutely true.
>>43521035
>counter spell sorcery in green
I don't like it. It's not right
>>43521035
My sides are in orbit. I've always thought they should make a counterspell for U that is a sorcery, it makes you depend on cards like quicken or hypersonic dragon.
>>43520946
Shit man that's an amazing design. I, no jokes, absolutely love it, that's fucking beautiful.
>>43520946
>>43521133 is right, that is the greatest custom designed card I have ever seen.
>>43521094
Way too good.
Let's make it only counter creatures for 1U.
>>43521321
I honestly wish they never errata'd this one.
>>43521341
There's two others identical to it, except in name. Also another that can also hits sorceries for 1UU. All were errata'd to be instants.
>>43521321
really? a sorcery counter is too good? but you would HAVE to combo it. how would you break it?
>>43521408
even 0 mana would be horrible. 2 for 1 yourself for a cheaper counterspell.. yes really good
>>43521408
By this point, I'm expecting that you finally decided to look at the picture and it's just starting to click what a dunce you are.
>>43521454
ya got me.
>>43521341
Portal didn't have instants, just sorceries that could be played at instant speed.
>>43502841
Why would this be the most well designed card in Magic?
>>43521685
It's a very versatile creature for either attacking or blocking at a good cost for its stats
>>43505447
>Rescue From the Underworld
What does top-down mean exactly?
>>43521756
designed from a flavor perspective rather than from a mechanics perspective
>>43521756
Think of something. An event or story or whatever. Top-down design is using that as a starting point, and then abusing the mechanics of the game like a cheap whore in order to get the card to work.
It's fucking terrible and there has never been a good top-down block. We always end up with stupid shit like Rescue from the Underworld.
>>43506190
Can't newer walls not attack because of the defender rule?
>>43507514
+1 for best designed card. Not only does the flavor of it actually give me chills how perfect it is it also single-handedly balances Legacy so it's actually playable without banning too many cards.
>>43521969
Yes, they decided not to give creature types extra baggage, so they took away the walls can't attack clause and gave them all the defender keyword.
>>43521969
>Rolling Stones
>Enchantment, 1W (2)
>Wall creatures can attack as though they didn't have defender.
>>43521715
That does not qualify it as the most well designed card in Magic.. Rofl
>>43522017
Daily reminder that FoW was originally supposed to be a red card.
>>43522060
>FoW
>Time Walk
>Snapcaster
Red had a hard life.
No.
>>43522060
If it was a red card that would be dumb, but since it's not, in the end I believe it's the best designed card. Fitting only the blue mage can muster that kind of mental energy.
>>43522060
>Daily reminder that FoW was originally supposed to be a red card.
You mean that the artist thought it was a red card? It counters a spell and is part of a cycle.
>>43502841
It's a fairly well designed card, yes. But I think the most well designed cards utilize their part of the color pie the best, while still being good, and flavorful.
While their is nothing wrong with flying and lifelink on a black card, I think the best cards design wise don't stray too far from aspects of their color.
For example, I think Dark Confidant is a very well designed card. Drawing cards for life, while not being optional is very black. In addition the flavor of being a worm tongue type advisor helping you out but slowly killing you is great.
>>43522265
>Only Blue can be smart
Hell, it's not even intelligence, it's force of WILLPOWER. When did blue absorb that as well?
>>43523915
Like Blue would leave any other color with a will unbroken.
>>43523915
Prophecy, maybe before?
>>43516721
Agreed
>>43524917
To be fair, you side out force in every fair matchup. As a death and taxes player, I love it when people force me.
>>43520946
Literally the only good custom card design I've ever seen.
And it's really, really good.
>>43502841
It is classic stupid powercreep.
>>43525474
>To be fair, you side out force in every fair matchup.
I hate this myth. It's never the best card in your deck for a fair matchup, but it is often still kept in.
And it was fucking insane in block constructed/standard/extended.
>>43520850
I hate this meme. There have been whole cohesive sets put together with a lot of really well-designed cards. The fact that a lot of shitty cards are made shouldn't detract from the cool ones that are made.
>>43525583
Mirri is my comparison. (I agree)
so this hits for 10 poison counters right ? ? ?
Everyone step back. Top tier design coming through.
>>43528173
No. Damage always has a source. Fling is dealing the damage here, not glistener elf.
>>43528173
Fling doesn't have infect.
>>43528236
shit... i hate running 3 colors
>>43528296
Ditch the red.
>>43528296
Just run UG man. Groundswell and Might of old Krosa are better than Titan's Strength and if you run blue, you get Blighted Agent and Distortion Strike.
The core set survivor is a good contender for best-designed.
>>43528173
No because fling deals damage, not the creature.
![Image[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/UsNUxOv.jpg "Image[1].jpg")
Giant Growth is the most perfect magic card ever designed.
>>43528380
thnkz
any more hints
>>43520946
part of me wants it to be again UU and AGAIN! RR for reasons
>>43528518
Look up some GU Infect lists.
I think this card is perfect but it's also my favourite card so I'm a bit biased.
>>43528583
well i was thinking how about 3 cards of each, with 2 lands of the corosponding color and for the arts they get 2 dual lands and maybe 2 other bonus lands like wolfs runny ? ? ?
>>43528856
ah shit gotta change the elf in there...
>>43528173
No, because Fling does not target the elf, plus Fling specifies that Fling is the source of damage. Since Fling does not have Infect, Fling is 7 regular damage max.
>>43528840
Maro thinks it's abomination that should be burned
>>43528518
glistener elf+blessings of nature+assault strobe for turn 2 kill
>>43529162
Maro has a twisted view of perfection.
>>43529215
i love top decking Blessings
its the bEsssst
>>43528180
>banned in modern
>top tier
>>43529215
HAX HAX
>>43525583
>>43526740
so either vampy nighties get reprint as legendary
or
Mirri gets reprint as nonlegendary
I don't know why I like this card so much
>>43502841
It's just a bunch of keywords on a shock-proof body.
Flying gives it evasion, which makes Deathtouch pointless because it doesn't have synergy.
Lifelink is pointless with its low power and toughness, since it's built to trade once.
It's just an awkward blocker, and its rules don't synergize.
>>43530153
I think it's the "Let's roll homey" pose the front twin's got.
>>43503760
NWO is about complexity at common, not about how powerful cards are. Stuff like no X spells at common.
>>43507648
If wraths are such a lynchpin to design why dont they print them at common or uncommon?
>>43531955
Because limited is generally primarily creature decks?
I don't really know if I agree with the necessity of wraths but your comment is pretty stupid nonetheless.
>>43531955
how many "wipes" are there?
>world fire
>>43531955
As usual, Limited is the reason for most rarity decisions. But also >>43532198
>>43518763
Easily my favorite card for budget constructed decks, you can virtually shove him in any deck you want
