What kind of magical punishments would a fantasy kingdom inflict on criminals?
>Instead of prison, criminals can be sentenced to a length of time petrified as a statue.
>Cheating at gambling earns you a curse of misfortune.
>Blasphemy is punished with being forbidden from receiving magical healing, from priests of any god.
>Outlaws convicted of stealing farmers' livestock are polymorphed into replacement animals and forced to work on the farm until rehabilitated.
>Those who use magic to commit crimes must wear special bracelets locked to their wrists that prevent spellcasting.
>The man who tried to assassinate the halfling merchant-prince is reincarnated as a halfling himself.
>Disobeying the king's officials means time under mental domination serving the kingdom.
>Regicide is punished by death and reanimation as a terrible undead creature bound to guard the royal bloodline.
What plot hooks flow from them?
>Thieves have robbed the tomb of the last king to be murdered, potentially unleashing his murderer into the city. Unfortunately even the court wizard doesn't know what will arise should he need to perform the ritual to execute a regicide.
>One statue in the museum-prison was petrified centuries ago, for crimes that must have been horrific but at the same time are unrecorded. But the sentence is nearly over and the petrification will wear off soon...
>>43491627
Which crime would get punished by being genderbent?
How would robbing the King's tomb unleash his murderer on the city? I don't see the connection.
>>43491840
Public lewdness, probably.
>>43491627
So, what about financial debts that go unpaid? Or kidnappings? Or slander?
>>43491840
Crossdressing in public? Fuck knows.
>>43491869
Oops, that refers to the last of the punishments. A king was killed a century ago, his assassin was turned into an undead and left to guard the tomb, now tombrobbers break in and the monster is missing, and nobody even remembers what it is, beyond the clues the wizard, who would have the job of animating another one if the need arises, can deduce from the scroll for creating it.
>>43491922
But if the monster is bound to guard the royal bloodline, why is that a problem? Or do the PCs not know that?
>>43491840
Probably rape. Then they lock you in the stocks.
>>43491840kekoldingsomeone who loves you
>>43492004
woah i didn't know that was wordfiltered
a lot of things suddenly make sense
>>43491627Really really magical realm but I remember talking with another anon who really liked that one laser tits story and who loved the idea of getting polymorphed/assimilated into a body part like tits, ass, pussy, or cock as a form of punishmentnot really good except for full on magical realm settings but shit like polymorph means you can get really creative with punishments
>>43491951
Bound to guard the tomb, if it's not in the tomb what happened?
It needs more amputations, human experimentation, and hybridization.
>>43496793
>>43491951
>>43491922
>>43491869
>the king committed suicide
>he is his own killer so he must protect his bloodline/treasures
>but he is still a king so re-killing him results in the same punishment
>>43491840
In the event a member of a man's heram should be raped or assualted by a man the accused, if found guilty, will be sentenced to losing their gender and becoming a member of said man's harem albeit with non of the protections afforded to the women proper
>>43496813
I was thinking more temporary punishments, and more magical ones, but I could see limbs being removed via teleportation/bag of holding like effect, being "volunteered" for polymorphing experiments, or being forced to serve someone in a polymorphed form respectively to cover those things.
You got other ideas?
When it comes to punishments, one has to remember that punishments were not made equal until the invention of the Guillotine, which made killing people faster, less messy and more efficient. Until then, your class or money determined the prison/punishment. An executioner had to be skilled with the axe/sword, else he might just broke your column and leave you into a painful death.
Also in some time periods/places, you had to pay for your stance in prison, and sometimes you were allowed to beg on the streets just to pay your imprisonment. The dungeon was for the penniless, while a rich man may pay for a luxurious prison.
Tatto to the face.
Cut off the nose.
Foot amputation.
Removal of the kneecap.
Fine.
Turn into an eunuch.
Boiled alive.
Dismembered.
Lashes, many lashes.
Penal servitude.
Exile.
>>43491840
the crime of daring to enter a magical realm
for actual content, necrotic_cyst_city.txt
http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/51112/whats-a-good-item-or-spell-for-creating-a-magical-surveillance-state/51145#51145
>>43491840
All crimes significantly motivated by Gender-Hate.
For killing deer in the Royal forest, removal the eyes and genitals.
>>43497211
That's not very magical. That's just the regular kind of tyrannical.
There were no prisons as we understand them today before the 19th-century. Prisons (privately owned) were only there just to hold people during the trial (rather than as a form of punishment), else people would rather become outlaw (criminal no longer protected by the law) rather than face trial.
Physical punishments, fines, and public shamming were more common. Things like amputation, tattoos, and branding allows one to quickly identify criminals.
>>43491840
Tear off the flesh until reaching the bones to show that genderbending is retarded because we are the same 'deep inside'
>>43491627
>magical
>punishments
Why not mindrape the "criminal" into what is considered not criminal by the current regiment instead of spending resources on "punishment" that only multiplies hate?
>>43498021
mindrape is unethical bro
>>43497974
That's a bit more brutal than what we're looking for here
>>43499565
A punishment is a punishment but I get your point.
Then just use magic to transform his/her/its body into a genderless one. Sounds like a non-lethal-yet-effective punishment for a genderbent sickminded fool.
>>43499721
It sound like you just hate the idea of gender swapping, looking back your reply didn't even answer the first anon's question
>>43496793
It would walk back to the tomb? Even if it fought anyone who tried to stop it, I don't see why they couldn't just stay out of its way, then seal the tomb back up once it's inside.
>>43500894
>It sound like you just hate the idea of gender swapping
It sounds like you are one those retards that assumes a negative comment about a minority equals to hating that minority.
>>43501189
Well it was more you answered the question of "what crime would be punished with gender swapping?" with "Tear off the flesh until reaching the bones to show that genderbending is retarded because we are the same 'deep inside'" which is at best a non sequitur
>>43501295
Yeah I misunderstood the initial post.
I fail to understand how that has anything to do with me pointing out a punishment in a thread about punishments and how that makes me hate the idea of genderbending.
>>43491627
Send them to a pocket dimension where they live in non-existence for hundreds of years and then port them back to their own plane. The twist? This lasts about 5 seconds in the plane from where he was sent from.
>>43501485
It was a very brutal reply to what seemed to be the idea of gender swapping and again, not what he asked, seemed like you were just going on a barely provoked rant about the subject
>>43491627
>Instead of prison, criminals can be sentenced to a length of time petrified as a statue
This is an amazing physical punishment.
Just say that in your world the spell Flesh to Stone keeps you mind intact. This will make you keep your thoughts while turned into a statue, but since you are made of stone, you are receiving no stimulus. Sensory deprivation wrecks the mind so hard. A single year could wreck your mind hard. More than that you could get some awful things to your mind. Plus side is you don't need to feed your statues. You could also exhibit them to your people to show how evil doers are punished. I assume this society would only use this punishment for crimes that are heinous (unless this society is Lawful Evil). Stealing food and other petty crimes shouldn't be punished like this. Armed robbery, rape, murder, misuse of magic to cause harm to property or to lives, destruction of property, heinous crimes against the kingdom, high burglary (stealing from rich people). The time spend as a statue depends on the crime. Eternity as a statue is only reserved to incredibly vile people, like a Necromancer that tried to turn the kingdom into a skeleton spoopy army.
>>43491627
What sort of magical punishments could one expect from things like
>Adultery
>Stealing something expensive like a noblewoman's fancy dress
>Stealing something minor like food from a merchant
>Forgery/lying under oath
>>43502908
>>Adultery
Mind controlled to obey spouse
>>Stealing something expensive like a noblewoman's fancy dress
Polymorphed into replacement
>>Stealing something minor like food from a merchant
Hands bound and forced to work it off without use of them
>>Forgery/lying under oath
I got nothing for the former but the latter could be cursed to only speak the truth
>>43502948
>Stealing something expensive like a noblewoman's thong
>Polymorphed into replacement
>Get all records of your existence destroyed once she realizes you're the most comfortable pair she's ever had
>>43491840
bound around the neck with a choker that emits a constant Anti-Lewdness Field. Leading to the rise of Chaotic Lewd freedom fighters.
>>43502948
Adultery: Magically remove the convict's ability to feel love, pleasure or happiness
>Stealing something expensive like a noblewoman's fancy dress
Your hand's are replace with the copy of the item(s) you stole
>Stealing something minor like food from a merchant
Magical spanking for 5 mintutes for the most minor theft (orphan stealing an apple) and up to 20 hours for more major stuff (stealing a whole loaf of bread from a merchant because you can't be bothered to return to your home for your own bread)
>Forgery/lying under oath
Curse the convict so that if he lies he will bite his tongue so hard it will draw blood and leave a permanent mark and any forgeries will burn onto his skin when he tries to use them (the item will slap onto his skin from any distance and even through walls to burn onto the convict)
>>43491840
In some not-Christian/Muslim/Whathaveyou religious regions that despise sexuality (masturbation, homosexuality etc.) or being a little bitch in the manliest of regions.
>>43502908
>Adultery
Magical chastity belt.
>Stealing something expensive like a noblewoman's fancy dress
Some kind of maximum obedience of laws an rules curse.
>Stealing something minor like food from a merchant
Spell that disables the use of your hands
>Forgery/lying under oath
Become a mute and inability to draw and write.
>>43492035
>a lot of things suddenly make sense
I laughed. Last week has been pretty crazy, right?
>>43503190
>Your hand's are replace with the copy of the item(s) you stole
I'm having trouble seeing this work with the given example (a dress) or things like a statue, if you include TF in the punishment something like >>43502948 makes more sense or if no TF >>43503257
>>43491627
I think for some range of offenses, agonizing pain that does not actually cause tissue damage would be highly popular. All the trauma and nightmares of being flogged, but without actually potentially killing you or otherwise making you unavailable to produce for society.
It's not like it won't damage you, but at least you can nominally work. I'm fairly certain people with some kinds of medieval attitudes wouldn't much balk at "agony spell that causes pain like being bitten by a bullet ant, or less if appropriate" either. They didn't balk at actually flogging people or such, so simply the level of cruelty associated with inflicting that kind of pain without actual permanent physical damage would probably be just fine.
You could also liberally apply magic items or spells that inflicted similar pain and/or mortal dread and fear in slaves or criminals at will. They act up or do something they aren't supposed to do, they wish they had never been born. Would it mess people up? Yes. Yes it would. But then, some societies would not care about this or would feel it was justifiable to inflict such suffering on really bad criminals or mere slaves.
You might have lighter hands with a skilled slave, but someone you were going to work into the ground in a salt mine anyway?
No chance.
The mules you used to haul the salt would have it better.
>>43503674
Try to steal when your hand is a piece from an expensive undergarment set and how would one try to hide the fact that he is a thief when the evidence is something the size of his head from the wrist and forwards
>>43503837
>Undergarment
Honestly I'm having trouble envisioning how something like this is attached, though I also think it's kinda funny if someone tried to wear it
>>43504162
The idea is humiliating the convict. If it's something expensive, they know you are a dirty thief not to be trusted. If it's a pair of knickers, people will know you are a common panty raider
>>43491627
What if my barbarian is caught sexually harrasing the busty bar maid?
>>43504288
Belt of genderswap and you have to help her serve the drinks
Also she gets your tips
>>43504288
Your voice would become squeeky, your arms flappy and noodle like, you would get a full brazillian and your weapons turn into inflatable hammers.
>>43491627
>For insubordination charges related to unnecessary violence, soldier's are placed under a powerful geas and locked in enchanted armors that turn them into mindless berserkers, when their body atrophies away, their soul gets added to the armor's power along with all others before them
>For minor misconduct violations in the army, a soldier will be cursed into being a level 1 peasant who serves only to peel potatoes, shine armor, and carry overweight pigs
>For cons involving snake oils, the offender will be sentenced to have his teeth magicallt extracted by nervous interns
>Billiard sharps are sentenced to play in dungeons on untrue cloth, with twisted cues, and elliptical billiard balls.
>"May your crimes weigh heavy on your spirit as well as your body."
Sentenced to wear a cursed amulet for the duration of their sentence.
>-2 str, -2 con, encumbered 20 lbs.
Worse crimes get higher encumberaces.
Repeat offenders eventually get sentenced to permanently wear cursed rings that provide wisdom, because they are obviously lacking insight if they keep doing crime/get caught.
Each ring:
>-1 str, -1 dex, -1con, +1wis
This could lead to an underworld where some fuckhuge ox of a brute went through the system repeatedly and became a crime boss.
Dude collects 10 rings, ends up with effectively 5 str/con/dex, but a huge wisdom score.
>>43491627
True polymorph: snail
Get fucked, criminal scum.
>>43491840
And it only took one post to go into magical realm territory. Good job.
>>43497155
Holy shit. I haven't read that before, that's incredible.
>>43491627
>Disobeying the king's officials means time under mental domination serving the kingdom.
Why not just have the king's men under mental domination 24/7?
Never worry about treason again!
>>43502948
>cursed to only speak the truth
...why not just use a temporary curse like this on anyone who testifies under oath?
I mean if this kind of thing were possible why wouldn't people use it anytime lying would be seriously harmful? After all, anyone who would object to it clearly must be lying about something.
>>43507221
That's actually a good point, I'd assume such things would be in a court of law at least, may be a bit too expensive for every contract though, which may be where cursed to speak the truth part comes in
>>43501509
DS9: Hard Time
Another of the "O'brien must suffer" episodes
>>43503047
Why would you want to be stuck as a thong for all eternity?
>>43508388
>Staying wrapped around her hips, pressed right up against her pussy, and tucked between her ass cheeks
It's kinda hot you gotta admit
>>43508388
Never, ever question a fetish.
Just accept that this gets some people off for some fucking reason.
>>43491840
rape
>>43491627
>what plot hooks flow from them.
Most of the suggested punishments sound incredibly cruel for my tastes so how about this
>head judge is a friend of the king and his chief advisor for all things relating to the law
>he's secretly trying to subvert the justice system by introducing more and more draconian punishments (removing the legs of trespassers, minor criminals are transformed in to half animal mutants and exiled to the woods)
>he's doing this because his father was taken away from him for something petty and turned in to a forgotten statue somewhere in the dungeon
>he's successfully provoking a violent insurgency and social unrest
>he's planned for his own demised such that when he dies the authorities will start a purge that will lead to a brutal civil war
>if you remove the insurgents you doom the kingdom to remain a magical Orwellian hell
>if the freakish insurgents will they will exterminate the upperclass and anyone who refused to help them
>as a group of strangers you will not be able to talk to the king let alone present evidence to him.
So what does your party do to solve this mess? Alsothe leader the the insurgency is a QT monster girl
>>43507221
>...why not just use a temporary curse like this on anyone who testifies under oath?
Most cultures acknowledge some rights for an individual, even if violating them would be easier/more convenient. So why wouldn't they always do the curse thing? They aren't evil cunts.
>>43509017
You literally do not have a right to lie under oath. It is a crime, called perjury.
I'm not talking about a permanent curse, just instead of
>Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, under penalty of perjury?
it's
>Do you submit to a spell to ensure that your statements are truthful?
>>43507221
Maybe the curse doesn't work 100% or is possible to trick with your own magic, so it's not considered reliable in a courtroom. Maybe it's a safeguard against the court wizard (accidentally or deliberately) failing to cast the spell properly, or even casting a different spell to force the accused to confess when s/he's innocent.
>>43509043
Actually, this is a good comparison: you're not required to speak in many situations in court and not required to incriminate yourself. Maybe magic comes under a similar school of thought: using magic to force answers out of someone is inadmissible as evidence, like information gained from torture.Or maybe the simplest option: yup, truth magic prevents lying in court. Wrongful convictions only happen when there's genuine misunderstandings, where the issue isn't a factual one (i.e. not "did he do it" but "was doing it manslaughter or murder" or "do his actions technically fall under the law") or the rare times trickery or corruption is employed to flaunt the magic.
>>43491953
Why would anyone be a rapist if you can just fuck the girls in the stocks?
>>43510781
If nobody rapes anyone since they're all waiting on a rapist to be put in the stocks, the law is working.
>>43510781
If no one raped, then there wouldn't be anyone in the stocks. It probably goes in cycles, with the rape rate dropping to zero when someone gets caught and going back up to normal when they get let go.
>>43510781
Rape is the deadliest game.
It's why /tg/ talks about it so much.and why we hate elves so much
What would happen to me if I broke into a noble lady's house and ruined her tea gathering?
>>43512386
Mentally commanded to be a polite and obedient servant at all of her future tea gatherings for a duration dependent on the damages caused.
>>43512386
Turned into a tea set
>>43511150
You could break the cycle by putting girls in the stocks for other crimes too.
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/owZla3j.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
Not counting any magical realm shenanigans, I would probably implement something like the Indigo Power Ring.
>>43502302
Fuck niggers and trannies.
>>43513769
>even touching niggers and trannies, much less wanting to fuck them
degenerate race traitor
>>43508455
>yfw said noblewoman got old, crusty
>>43514156
Be enchanted lingerie, so you get passed down the family or sold to a hot adventuress.
That will keep you from spending too much time in a draw too.
>>43491627
I once had a dream I went to hell
and hell was a prison beneath the ocean
all who resided in hell were nothing more than skeletons lying at the bottom of the sea
I gazed at the ceiling, feeling the cold water that engulfed me bite into my very bones, it was a constant and sharp pain like frost bite in it's final stages.
if you do not move, you will be left alone, but if you dare move even a hairs breadth, the demon and satan himself, all in the form sof hideous underwater creatures like something out of a hp lovecraft story, bang and clash and swim and appear in your cell faster than you can blink and torture and rape you for weeks
for you see in hell everyone must pay off their debt to satan
and the only way to earn money is to lie still and not to move
but moving spends your money, and if you go bankrupt, the demons will torture you until you have earned enough form pain to cause them to leave you alone again, which can take along time
Everyone in hell is trying to pay their way out so they can be free and wake up form the nightmare.
but if you fail too many times satan declares your soul lacking in discipline and condemns you
and you must return to the waking world until your parole comes due again
>>43510781
There probably isn't one girl in the stocks 24/7. Plus there's probably a demand from anyone shameless enough to fuck her there, so you might have to wait in line. Or just, you know, risk being seen doing it - and even if it's not a crime, good luck explaining it to your wife. And adultery might be a crime.
>>43514156
>>43514187
>Get caught on a panty raid against a noblewoman sorceress
>She turns you into an enchanted set of silky panties
>She seems to take a perverse thrill in your fate, wearing you every chance she gets and often taunting you about your fate while she pleasures herself
>Spend several years adoring her magically perfect body as she uses her transmutation magic to punish people for more and more vague "crimes"
>Eventually sorceress is over thrown by adventurers due to her polymorphing half the town
>While looting her manor one of the adventures, a ladyknight, claims you for herself
>Not knowing your real nature and assuming the sorceress simply enchanted you for comfort as you quickly come to be her favorite pair
>She likes you so much she eventually has you enchanted with various protective and cleaning enchantments so she can forgo normal armor and strut her stuff whenever she wears you and little else
>When she retires she ends up passing you off to her squire when she follows in her mentor's footsteps
>End up getting passed down, looted, and sold between adventurer after adventurer, passing through history wrapped around the muscular hips of various ladyknights, amazons, and sorceresses
>>43507043
>Why not just have the king's men under mental domination 24/7?
Why not just have everyone in the world under mental domination instead?
We might be onto something people.No.
>>43507221
>why not just use a temporary curse like this on anyone who testifies under oath?
For the same reason we don't use a polygraph with every person testifying in the real world.
>>43515167
Fucking please. If polygraphs were 100% effective - that is, if they worked like hollywood thinks they work - you bet your sweet fucking ass we'd use them all the time.
>>43515173
>if they worked like hollywood thinks they work - you bet your sweet fucking ass we'd use them all the time
Then why sometimes they are used and sometimes they are not?
And for the record, polygraphs are quite accurate (definitely more accurate than people) unless the person knows how to manipulate the outcome or is naturally capable of not being affected by it like psychopaths.
>>43515203
>Then why sometimes they are used and sometimes they are not?
Polys are not universally admissible in court.
All they do is measure physiological response. They can be accurate in some people, but they don't work like CSI showed you where it gets this large spike that might as well say HE LIED GUYS. All those things show is quickening heartrate or BP activity, which is caused by stress. The theory is that lying is more stressful than telling the truth, but the reality is that some questions are just naturally stressful, and moreso, everbody's physiological response varies.
It takes a very skilled interrogator to question someone with a polygraph. It is very easy to inadvertently confound the results, especially when they're asking about sensitive things like sins and crimes. Even things like caffeine intake or natural anxiety can confound results.
Polys are not useless - they can guess lies at a rate above that of random chance - but also at a rate well below perfection.
Polygraphy is not a legitimate science because its results are not consistent. Even among polygraph experts they can form different opinions of the readouts. This is different from, say, fingerprinting or ballistics or DNA analysis, which are robust sciences with repeatable results. Even the Supreme Court ruled in 1998 that "...theree is simply no consensus that polygraph evidence is reliable."
tl;dr: Fuck polygraphs. If they were as reliable as a 100% consistent spell that prohibited lying, we'd use them all the time.
>>43515167
Why don't we use a polygraph all the time? I'm not completely sure. Some say it's because it's completely unreliable, some argue that it's because it's laughably easy to defeat. The jury's still out.
>>43515203
>why are they used and sometimes they are not?
Because people are stupid sometimes. They aren't even all that widespread, being used primarily in the US (and it's not even admissible in many states) and a few other countries.
They actually aren't all that accurate. Some people say 90% accuracy, but most studies show around 70%, which is hardly good enough for a court of law. Also, "knowing how to manipulate the outcome" is pretty easy, it's basically "use mental imagery" or "hide a thumbtack in your shoe and step on it during the control questions."
The question shouldn't be "why are they sometimes used," it should be "why are they not used in the overwhelming majority of jurisdictions," which is a question that almost answers itself.
>When polygraphs are used as a screening tool (in national security matters and for law enforcement agencies for example) the level of accuracy drops to such a level that "Its accuracy in distinguishing actual or potential security violators from innocent test takers is insufficient to justify reliance on its use in employee security screening in federal agencies." In fact, the NAS extrapolated that if the test were sensitive enough to detect 80% of spies (a level of accuracy which it did not assume), this would hardly be sufficient anyway. Let us take for example a hypothetical polygraph screening of a body of 10,000 employees among which are 10 spies. With an 80% success rate, the polygraph test would show that 8 spies and 1,992 non-spies fail the test. Thus, roughly 99.6 percent of positives (those failing the test) would be false positives. The NAS concluded that the polygraph "...may have some utility"[13] but that there is "little basis for the expectation that a polygraph test could have extremely high accuracy.".[13]:212
Polyfaggotry BTFO.I'm bitter because I didn't get a sweet crypto internship at the NSA because a poly test came back inconclusive because being hooked up to a crazy machine and having a pissed off dude in shades ask you if you're a communist is stressful as fuck.
>>43515304
>>43515331
Whatever, the point of the post was not about the polygraph anyways.
In a supposed world where you can cast some curse/spell on a guy and make sure he behaves in a specific way there's no reason to cast spells of truth in court when you could cast spells to control behavior on everyone to begin. The thing is that forcing people to do things is (or should be) immoral because it is the bane of free will.
There's also other things to consider like spells that manipulate a person mind making the 'truth' not true at all or illusion spells fogging the truth. All those things put truth spells on polygraph-tier.
>>43515358
>pissed off dude in shades ask you if you're a communist
I chuckled
>>43515669
Casting a limited, temporary truth spell on someone who vowed to tell the truth under oath is different from dominating the minds of absolutely everyone at all times. That's a hell of a slippery slope.
>>43515669
Except if they're under an illusion or mind control spell, they would say the same thing anyway. All the truth spell does is prevent people on the stand from deliberately lying, which is a very good benefit.
The alternative is you don't cast it on them, which means any particular witness might be telling the truth, lying, be telling the truth about false memories, or lying about false memories
>>43492035
along with baka, desu, and senpai.that's s\mh, t\bh, and f\am respectively
>>43516222
>that's s\mh, t\bh, and f\am respectively
Oh, that's why I haven't seen those in a few days
Thanks newmoot that shit was annoying
>>43515701
Don't justify using the spell because 'nah but he swore to tell the truth so it's okay' when you are systematically using the spell on everyone stepping in court. It doesn't matter that he swore to tell the truth to begin with.
And I'm not comparing controlling the population via magic with casting a truth spell on someone I'm just saying that any form of undeserved forced control is inherently unethical.
>>43515787
>Except if they're under an illusion or mind control spell, they would say the same thing anyway.
I'm not talking about being mind controlled or under a illusion while in court. Which means that people can lie while in court. Being able to mindcontrol someone in court only makes it even worse for the Truth Spell.
>Guard gets manipulated mentally to think he killed Noble
>in court he tells 'the truth' and gets executed/imprisoned
>otherwise he could have lied to avoid consequences leading to a more exhaustive investigation that could have shown he was innocent
or
>Guard on watch sees Peasant killing Noble
>little he knows it's an illusion
>he tells 'the truth' , the Peasant is not even Truthspell-asked, gets executed
or
>Peasant is Truthspell-asked and says the truth clashing with what the Guard said making this no different than any 'non magic' court
are two examples of why Truth Spells are flawed and should be taken with a grain of salt
>The alternative is you don't cast it on them, which means any particular witness might be telling the truth, lying, be telling the truth about false memories, or lying about false memories
Compared to
>truth
>'lie'
>mental distorted truth
>not being able to lie (read: defend yourself) from mental distorded truth
How is your alternative better, again?
>>43516429
>in court he tells 'the truth' and gets executed
A truth spell doesn't compel you to answer questions, nor testify yourself. He could just as easily lie by omission to force a deeper investigation
>Guard on watch sees Peasant killing Noble
>little he knows it's an illusion
So what, the real murderer killed the noble separately? Did the court not cross check where the body was found with where the guard said the murder happened? Did the peasant not have an alibi?
>making this no different than any 'non magic' court
Meaning there's no downside to using it. If the only flaw in your court system is that powerful illusionists and mental mages can mess with witness testimony, you have a great system. That's also assuming there's no way to detect if an illusion was cast somewhere or if someone's mind has been controlled or altered.
>>43516336
>that shit was annoying
And baka, desu, and senpai aren't?
Then again, those things are more widely considered to be annoying, so people are more likely to avoid saying them accidentally. Then again again, that's what they said about "weeaboo".
>>43496921
Pretty sure I fapped to a series of captions on /d/ with this story.
>>43516598
Baka, desu, and senpai are not things you really see on /tg/ unless it's intended as a joke or mocking, the other stuff just makes them sound like idiots
>>43514271
I'm taking this.
>>43516501
>A truth spell doesn't compel you to answer questions, nor testify yourself
>Did you kill Noble?
>Yes I did
Sounds like something that would happen under the effect of a Truth Spell.
>So what, the real murderer killed the noble separately?
>Did the court not cross check where the body was found with where the guard said the murder happened?
The murder happened there and was real, the illusion was that the actual murderer looked like the Peasant but was someone else.
>Did the peasant not have an alibi?
He did, he didn't. Doesn't matter.
In the first example he didn't get asked if he did because Guard was telling 'the truth' so, no point.
In the second example he did get asked and since their truths are clashing the spells have no relevance.
>Meaning there's no downside to using it.
Removing the possibility of a person lying about a lie (in this context telling the truth) is a downside.
>If the only flaw in your court system is that powerful illusionists and mental mages can mess with witness testimony, you have a great system.
A system that allows (and in a way encourages) some people to wreck havoc and get away with it doesn't sound that great to me. And if that people also happen to be powerful (Mages, alchemists, etc) sounds even less great.
Truth Spells look as unreliable as polygraphs but in a fantasy setting, honestly.
>>43516741
>Truth Spells look as unreliable as polygraphs but in a fantasy setting
Let me put it this way. A polygraph can be fooled by someone who knows how to lie, someone being in the wrong mood, the interrogator misreading the information, or the witness being mistaken in what they think they saw.
A truth spell can be fooled by the witness being mistaken in what they think they saw, or the witness being magically made to mistake what they think they saw.
Truth spells still have no downsides. You wouldn't just accept that the witness has 100% photographic memory in a normal court case even if they were perfectly honest. Why would that be different here?
>>43516779
>Truth spells still have no downsides
Removing the possibility of a person lying about a lie (in this context telling the truth) is a downside (ditto)
>You wouldn't just accept that the witness has 100% photographic memory in a normal court case even if they were perfectly honest. Why would that be different here?
Unlike in a normal court, a witness under the effect of the Truth Spell the person MUST say the truth.
If the witness says "Yes, he is the murderer" it means that he is indubitably the murderer.
If the witness doesn't know if that person is the murderer he simply can't "Yes, he is" because it's not true.
>>43516916
>Unlike in a normal court, a witness under the effect of the Truth Spell the person MUST say the truth.
A) Just because it compels them to tell the trust, doesn't mean they're compelled to answer
B) Based on the above, removing the possibility of lying about a lie (which isn't necessarily the truth) doesn't matter, as if they still want to maintain their innocence, they can refuse to be questioned, or otherwise prompt further investigation.
C) Someone innocent believing they committed the crime, but also wanting to lie about it, means they wouldn't step forward as a suspect. This means that the guards would be forced to come to the conclusion that they were the one responsible absent of other evidence.
D) If the truth spell compels them to be 100% factual, then they would be forced to say 'I BELIEVE he is the murderer'. If it doesn't, then the court merely has to infer the possibility that the person's senses were fooled, the same as in a normal court if someone wears a disguise.
>>43516968
>A)
Your point being? Because this can happen in all courts and if anything proves how useless Truth Spells are.
>(which isn't necessarily the truth)
In the context given it is. If the person knows "I killed her" but says "I didn't kill her" he/she is telling the truth because he didn't do it even he knows he did it.
>Someone innocent believing they committed the crime, but also wanting to lie about it, means they wouldn't step forward as a suspect
But someone innocent believing he committed the crime could be considered a suspect. Suspect gets sent for questioning, spell is used, he admits culpability even though he didn't do it.
>If the truth spell compels them to be 100% factual, then they would be forced to say 'I BELIEVE he is the murderer'
Huh? If I walk in the Tavern and see a peasant stabbing the maid I don't BELIEVE he's the murderer, I know.
>>43517077
>Your point being?
That someone can't be forced to testify against themselves, but witnesses can undergo the spell to help ensure their credibility and remove some doubt. Unless literally everyone is an illusionist, that will help out in many cases.
>In the context given it is.
If you lie about a lie, that doesn't mean you told the truth. If someone brainwashed you into thinking the Russians landed on the moon instead of the U.S., and you lie and say nobody landed on the moon, that doesn't mean you've told the truth. Allowing people to lie about a lie doesn't necessarily get you closer to the truth.
>could be considered a suspect
How do they find out he believes this?
>Suspect gets sent for questioning, spell is used
Except this is discussing using it in place of the oath in courts, which is different than interrogations.
>he admits culpability even though he didn't do it.
Again, he can just not say anything.
>I know.
Exactly. You know, based on the information you perceived and had access to. Did you miss the second part of that sentence though? I was presenting to options. Either it compels you to be vague due to the inherent unreliability of human perception, or it allows you to make assumptions, which the court would be aware of.
If you say 'I know 100% for a fact he is the murderer' while under the truth spell, the court can still only consider that as the fact that you aren't lying based on what you know. They can't assume you are omniscient or have all the facts.
>>43517149
>witnesses can undergo the spell to help ensure their credibility
And that would ensure nothing since the credibility of the people under the spell effect has been in scrutiny for many posts now.
>If you lie about a lie, that doesn't mean you told the truth.
I this context, it does. Not going over this again.
>How do they find out he believes this?
They don't find he believes anything. They investigate and for some reason he comes up as a suspect.
>Except this is discussing using it in place of the oath in courts, which is different than interrogations.
And in court people get questioned. Don't they?
And how is interrogation questioning different than in court questioning?
>Again, he can just not say anything.
*sigh*
>They can't assume you are omniscient or have all the facts.
You don't need to be omniscient to know that someone stabbing the life out of someone else is a murderer. And the fact that you saw it happening is the only fact needed for you to know it.
So, why even use Truth Spells, again?
You can choose to not say anything under its effect.
You can't trust what is said under its effect because it can be true, false, half true, true in your point of view, false in your point of view, none of the above, all of the above.
I fail to see the benefits of this.
>>43491840
Male homosexuality, like in Iran. Maybe make it a preventive curse, when penis touches the butt of male, it turns the penis owner into woman.
>>43517389
Most cultures saw the act of penetrating as masculine, even if it was penetrating another man
>>43517780
So taking it from a guy gets you turned into a girl?
>>43503047
>thong
boyshorts is where it's at.
>>43491627
>Instead of prison, criminals can be sentenced to a length of time petrified as a statue.
I like it, its a good back story, a wizzard forget you stoned and a century later another one accidentally rescued you
>>43517345
>And that would ensure nothing
If they're under the control of a wizard? How many criminal wizards murdering people do you think there are?
>I this context, it does.
No, it really doesn't. You're arguing that without the truth spell, a witness would lie to protect their guilt, which in the case of them having false memories, means they would tell the truth. They don't know what the truth is though. Their new lie could just as easily be completely wrong.
>They investigate and for some reason he comes up as a suspect.
So, completely arbitrarily? Despite the fact that there would be little evidence linking them to the scene, and they'd probably be going out of their way to not get caught if they think they did it.
That's also rather lucky of the wizard that some random peasant he chose to disguise himself as just happened to get picked out of a lineup.
>And how is interrogation questioning different than in court questioning?
Do you not understand what a court is for? The entire discussion was based around the idea that instead of the oath (Do you swear to tell the whole truth, etc., etc.) would be replaced by a truth spell.
>*sigh*
What part of a truth spell says they have to speak? Why do you assume that's part of how truth spells work?
>And the fact that you saw it happening is the only fact needed for you to know it.
And...as I have said...if that's true and it's how the truth spell works, then the people in the courtroom would now that there's a possibility you've been fooled by magic.
>So, why even use Truth Spells, again?
Because the only situations its easy to fool are in cases where a wizard is involved and there are very few witnesses. If they suspect has people who can give him an alibi, you can make sure they're not lying. If there is a wizard and some mental control going on, yes, it will be difficult to solve. It would be difficult to solve without the truth spell anyway, In literally every other situation its objectively better
>>43520827
Sounds like PC backstory material!
>>43520698
You don't see many sorceresses wearing those though
Execution followed by being raised as a zombie to serve the person you have offended.
Mind control magic that makes you just think long and hard about what you did and feel remorse.
Your blood/life-force is drawn out to fuel magic.
Test subject for experimental alchemy.
Imprisonment in an alternate dimension.
>>43515100
>Looting the underwear off of a dead enemy and claiming them as your own.
That's some top-tier murderhobo right there
>>43523534
In all fairness it was probably a very nice thong, one worth at least a few silver
>>43523039
Indeed, far too few. I just need to find a game for my tomboy sorceress to finally see some action...
>>43525454
I could see a musclesorceress wearing them
Possibly a more modernish amazon shaman or something
>>43526154
>Amazon Shaman Sorceress
I never realized how much I wanted this until now
>>43491627
>Instead of prison, criminals can be sentenced to a length of time petrified as a statue.
I don't see how this is a bad thing for someone who could be an extreme misanthrope, or otherwise uncaring of being preserved so.
It should be indefinite, or that they retain sentience throughout the time being petrified.
The deterring factor in Prison is not only being excluded from society, but having to live in a separate one consciously.
>>43525454
>>43526154
>>43526188
>Tall, muscular amazon spell caster who loves to show off both her magical might and her well maintained body
>She's not quite as big as the rest of the tribe but still /fit/ enough to keep up and overpower most men
>Specializes in buffing to increase her and her fellow amazon's power and transformation curses
>Usually wears only body paint, beads,and the occasional set of form fitting boyshorts who used to be a lucky adventurer
>>43526154
I was thinking of a flat, boyish little thing.
>>43527953
So a /fit/ amazon as opposed to a curvy and muscular one?
Still hot
>>43491627
Instead of prison, prisoners are petrified as a statue, the statue is then animated as a golem and used as slave labor for a set term.
>>43491627
I was playing around with the idea a while back for a story where any crime with a life/death sentence gave the opportunity to the prisoner to "Start Over" and erase their crimes and past...
Essentially they are mind wiped completely and remade to fit a certain role (Spy, Concubine, Bodyguard, And most commonly fearless cannon fodder soldier.) Called "Forgotten" They are emotionless (unless made otherwise, and even then the emotion is merely fake and they feel nothing emotionally), and have the skill and muscle memory to fit the task they are remolded for.
Nobody liked the forgotten, And more often then not they ended up with a bullet to the back of the head or left to die without medical attention or even being fed most of the time~
>>43528258
I wasn't thinking amazon, but a lithe and athletic rogue-sorceress works too.
>>43530869
>lithe and athletic rogue-sorceress
You know?
I can't think of any time I've really seen this
>>43531156
I've feel like I've seen at least a few tomboyish spellthieves, but those usually focus more on the thief part rather than the spell part.
>>43531205
I'll have to brainstorm a spell ninja character and then look for a game for her.
>>43528970
Being remade into a concubine is hot, but identity death kills it.
>>43533679
It's a death sentence, what did you expect?
Although it would probably be more fun if the criminal was imprisoned in their own mind, a backseat observer as the "forgotten" them performed all the duties of their new life, suffering all of the injuries, abuses, and rapes that their new life does as a result of the discrimination against Forgotten.
>>43533762
Having them be a prisoner in their own mind could work, since it's similar to a normal prison term, although it might be a bit horrifying to think about.
>>43503533
Rape!
>>43533762
>>43534565
Is it odd I find that disturbing but the idea of the same thing happening with inanimate TF or better yet assimilation/body part TF hot as fuck?
I like how being a halfling is seen as punishment
>>43534601
Not really. Being stuck as an inanimate object and only being able to observe is one thing. Only being able to observe as you're forced to take actions you would never do yourself is much worse, as it's harder to distance yourself from what's happening.
>>43491627
Wraith: The Oblivion has plenty of terrifying punishments. There's an Arcanoi called 'Moliate' which allows you to manipulate soulstuff. And since Wraith takes place in the afterlife and everyone is a ghost, the punishment for serious offenses is to spend the rest of your life as a brick, a length of chain, or an ashtray.
A light punishment is having your face ripped off, which you can survive because you're dead. One piece of art shows a wraith having all his features ripped off by...I don't even know how to describe it. The best words I have are "Wasps with hypodermic needles for stingers."
>>43534625But I also like to imagine they're hyper sensitive, seeing, feeling, hearing, smelling, and even tasting everything that happens to them depending on what they become
>>43534607
I'm going to admit, it feels half assed as punishments go, but it was only a halfling he killed after all
>>43491627
You get your mind magically bound to obey the law.
And then you get back to work the next day.
>>43534600
It's so fucking sad that this poster ever had to be made in the first place.
>>43538962
It didn't.
>>43533762
>It's a death sentence, what did you expect?
Something fetishy, desu.
Being trapped in their own mind is just torture. Being mindbroken into loving and accepting their new role is something else.
It's also more moral than enslaving a blank slate.
>>43493747
An undying council of nobles rules, and they select from fit criminals to polymorph them into a fresh internal organ to continue to sustain themselves.
Normal organ transplants require surgery, and only add a bit of life force from the organ itself, while the polymorph lets them drain the life force of the offender.
>>43541982
Honestly I'd prefer just generic assimilation than polymorphing someone into an organ for transplant, solves both the issue of a dispell fucking them over and the question of what to do when the brain starts failing
>>43497155
>the crime of daring to enter a magical realm
>for actual content
why not both?
Wouldn't all of these fall under cruel and unusual?
>>43546783
It's hot though
>>43546783
Was it implied that this was a GOOD kingdom?
>>43546783
I think magical punishments are going to be categorically "unusual."
In any case, that standard is a relatively modern one, at least our formulation of it. Remember that hanging for petty theft was common in England for centuries, and that at the start of the 1800's children were treated the same as adults.
