>Fulgrim: "I am scared to fail."
I could have sworn I've read something similar or exact to this in one of the Horus Heresy books.
Is it true, /tg/? Did Fulgrim possess the most mortal flaw out of all the Primarchs?
>>43472977
Nah. Dorn was a stubborn ass. Perturabo was jealous and butthurt. Lorgar was a faithfag who'd worship a turnip if it was the only other thing left in the universe.
>>43472977
He was a sissy, overproud ass.
I mean, before he got fucked up by that Laer Sword he was a pretty cool dude, but...that sword. Fucked him.
>>43473061
well desu a good chunk of the primarchs suffered from "daddy doesn't love me" syndrome
>magnus: magick
>lorgar: worship
>mortarion: trying to be independent but failing
>angron: sacrificing yourself for your beliefs but being told no by daddy
>horus: no matter what i do daddy won't flat out tell me he thinks I'm sexy
>alpharius my tactix are too sneaky
>guilleman i suck my own cock too much
>corax i really should stop messing around with dads tools
>>43472977
I would say Lorgar was the most flawed, that need for faith did not end well for him. Although Curze might top him what with him being a madman who can see the future and having a love for scalping people.
Objectively Vulkan is the best primarch, being practically immortal and generally a cool guy.
>>43473260
> Vulkan: based as fuck.
>>43473327
YEA MAH NOCTURNE BRETHREN
>>43473260
To be fair, if you got separated from your dad, whispered to by eldrich gods during sleep, then after growing up reunited with said dad and immediately thrust in charge of a huge fighting force and told to go finish the shit he started while he pissed around at home you'd probably be pretty fucked up too.
I'm not sympathising with Guilleman though, fuck that guy.
>>43473327
If we're going by crazytown anon's listmaking rules
>vulkan: daddy pls hold my hand
Vullk was just not very good at the whole "waging war" thing, which for a custom-built super general is a pretty fucking glaring flaw.
the quote i am afraid of failure i think came from dorn in the hh novel about the iron warriors
>>43473377
>I'm not sympathising with Guilleman though, fuck that guy.
Yeah, he was an asshole.
>>43473260
Lion
>I don't trust a single one of you fuckers...
>>43473260
wft? why would new moot censor to be honest? desu
>>43473500
Because of stupid fucks who spam stupid shit in their every post where it has less than no merit.
>>43473500
desu I think the new desu is really great, desu.
>>43473396
Actually his main flaw was that he often put his own men and overall battle successes in peril because he wanted to save civilians.
On more than one occasion he got into fights with his brothers because he would get Space Marines killed in order to minimize collateral.
Of course, his excuse was always "They should be tough enough to do both. They're Space Marines."
>>43474756
book that that quotes from plz? sounds cool
>>43473302
>Lorgar was the most flawed, that need for faith did not end well for him.
>First-class Daemon Prince
>Beholden to the gods he worships purely by his own faith in them, not the fact that any of them has any power over him
>Rules daemon worlds and an intact legion wholly unopposed
>Imperium became a galaxy-wide church worshiping his dad, just like he always wanted
>loyal space marines are blindly fearless through faith, and shepherded by chaplains, just like he always thought space marines should be
>Irony more delicious than the Alpha Legion could ever dream of
The guy was wildly successful beyond even his own wildest dreams - and those are pretty wild. No primarch, nor even the Emperor, ended up better off than him.
>>43475722
It's not a direct quote. He's all about being tough and surviving through shear grit and physical endurance.
On plenty of occasions he's told people to just fucking tough it out.
>>43473260
Every Primarch besides Curze (bat shit crazy from growing up in urban hellhole/constant prophecies of doom) and Alpharius (who just didn't fucking care) had daddy issues
>>43473302
>Sevatar walks into Curze's private chambers
>Skinned bisected corpses hanging from the ceiling
>Curze's aid just walks up and says "please don't touch those, he talks to them"
What the fuck was the Emprah on when he made this guy
>>43477106
To add: Horus, Fulgrim, Magnus, and Perturabo had the biggest daddy issues
>>43472977
looks like a drow
>>43473327
vulkan was too nice and died all the time.
>>43476651
Fuckin'-A, I never thought of it that way
>>43476651
holy fuck, I never thought about this kinda stuff because Lorgar never did anything
but that's because he doesn't have to, he's literally already won
>>43477129
Whatever also made recruit Terran Night Lords from children born in pitch black underground prisons.
>>43477148
>>43477106
Can you blame them?
They got the worst dad in the Galaxy.
Lorgar even got two, and the other wasn't that great too.
>>43476682
Easy talk for a immortal.
>>43478926
He watched riddik?
Fulgrim was a pretty cool guy. I dislike that they turned his fall into "daemon sword now you're Chaos". Like, what's the point? It's supposed to be a tragic fall from grace. Instead several Primarchs fell because daemon magic through no fault of their own.
>>43477129
Considering the dude basically went OH GOD THE VISIONS WHY THE FUCK IS THIS HAPPENING and then tried to gouge his eyes out when he first saw the Emprah, it makes you question the judgment in putting him in charge of an army.
It gets even worse with Angron, who openly hated the Emperor and had fucking hate-spikes that would only let him feel joy when killing people in his brain.
>>43480947
He hadn't died yet at that point.
>>43481200
>Considering the dude basically went OH GOD THE VISIONS WHY THE FUCK IS THIS HAPPENING
Isn't that only the super sensitive who can see The Emperor's true nature? That's got to be as small if not smaller a slice of the population as blanks
>>43481537
Curze got a future vision of his death at the hands of the Emperor so intense he tried to blind himself when he first met him. That was partially responsible for his fall, particularly since Fulgrim was kind of a dick and told Dorn about it, who in turn was an even bigger dick and more or less attacked Curze because he dared imply the Emperor would harm a Primarch.
>>43481179
I think the issue is that it was supposed to be a gradual slip into hedonism, a bit of a Dorian Grey case, but to properly depict that and keep in line with the action and adventure expected of the books they had to leap frog straight to different levels of his going wrong instead of really drawing out the insidious nature of the daemon and the slow fall.
That said, if Eldrad hadn't been such a dick when they met it might have done a better job in setting it up too.
I always felt like Mortarion was the most tragic. Dude was loyal to a fault, did extremely shitty jobs, and unlike Perturabo he never expected any glory or thanks. Angron and Curze got raw deals, but they just felt like they were fucked from the get-go, which makes it hard to feel bad for them. Mortarion got a ton of shit heaped on him, but he didn't feel quite as broken and unsalvageable.
How would Perturabo benefit Imperium in 40 000k if he stayed loyal? He seemed quite adept at keeping total war rolling. Didn't he make an industrial military complex - like mini empire at some point?
>>43481834
As long as he got constant praise and adoration he'd certainly be useful. Especially since he considered himself a builder and kind of resented only being sent to tear shit down, so he would probably be ecstatic in the post-Great Crusade Imperium, being told to reinforce against encroaching xenos/Chaos incursions rather than constantly retake fallen worlds.
Perturabo is probably the only guy in the universe who could use a sycophant.
In my humble opinion Emprah should lab-grow 20 perfect dads before starting the primarch project.
>>43476651
Holy shit.
Logar is the only person besides the Orks to hold the achievement of "Won 40k".
He is playing both sides of the game so overtly that nobody notices.
He set up the Imperial Church and the deification of the Emperor to unite humanity. And it has.
Now he has created a devil for them to be united against.
He is doing what the Alpha Legion is always claiming it does. And has been doing it longer and better.
I change my opinion on the Word Bearers.
Move the fuck over Black Legion, Word Bearers are best Legion.
>>43482080
Or just not create the Primarchs.
As more lost knowledge is recovered from Mars and other AoS survivor outposts and just keep refining the Thunder Warriors.
Don't make any deals with Chaos, don't steal from them in any way, don't betray your underlings and don't go full fedora.
Heresy averted.
>>43482808
SM were supposed to be easier to mass produce than thunder warriors if I remember correctly and he need loads of soldiers to conquer galaxy
Creation of primarchs promoted warlordism. Guess Emprah didn't pay attention to fall of roman republic after marian reforms. Then again, it was a long time ago.
>>43482808
Or, you know, do what he did with the Thunder Warriors and keep the useful ones around while phasing out the unstable ones. Also, as someone already said, warlordism has almost always eventually led to a military coup. At the very least keep rotating Primarchs, don't put them in charge of recruiting, training, and deciding tactical doctrine on their own, and make sure Legions are loyal to the Imperium rather than their own Primarch. After all, the first thing that happened once Horus went traitor was him drawing up plans to get rid of the old guard. Obviously this would indicate that a lot of the dudes pre-Primarchs worked as intended. Letting the military do whatever the fuck they want with no oversight and nobody to answer to has never been a good idea.
>>43477129
Was that an actual scene?
>>43482678
I don't think he intented any of that to happen. Yes, Imperium in 40k is pretty much how he wanted it to be (a theocracy that worships the Emperor as a god), but he's probably mostly bitter about them doing it now when back when he suggested it he was branded a traitor. He's found new gods that are much better than the Emperor, anyway.
>>43483681
Also, seeing as how his thing was a genuine belief in the divine, realizing the Emperor wasn't actually a god really pissed him off. I'm sure he's fucking furious they started viewing his work as precious holy texts after he'd already disproved them.
But yeah, Lorgar more or less got what he wanted. Then again, so did Curze, even if he just wanted to die on his own terms.
>>43481682
so why did Morty turn to Horus again?
>>43484076
Because he got sick of everyone telling him to go home and take a bath already
>>43484152
Morty always seemed cool to me, Perturabo, Angron and Magnus are obviously shit tier
>>43484076
Dude hated Tyrants, no-one but Horus (and maybe Curze I think) really liked him, and Horus basically said "hey, have you noticed the Emperor being really tyrannical lately?"
As reasons go it's one of the better ones, but it's not great
So he joined, but didn't turn to chaos - he absolutely loathed pyskers
Unfortunately the guy he trusted as 1st Captain was a psyker and an asshole who betrayed him and put the Death Guard fleet in a no-win situation where their toughness meant they were alive but in unbearable pain, stuck in the warp, with Chaos as the only way out - did I mention Typhus is an asshole?
>>43484336
Angron felt the only thing worth fighting for was freedom, so with that and his head-spikes I can't really fault him too much
>>43484076
He resisted for the longest time, and probably would have remained a loyalist if Horus hadn't exploited his other daddy-issues. Mortarion was raised by a weird xenos lich/necromancer who treated humans like cattle. This left Mortarion really negative towards both tyrants and psykers. As time went on, the Emperor came off as more and more of a power-mad and oppressive despot, and he was a psyker to boot. So Horus got Mortarion to increasingly view the Emperor as a manipulative sorcerer.
Which comes off as a pretty sensible conclusion after the Black Library turned the Emperor into an unlikeable douchebag. I probably would've suspected he used Warp-magic to force people to obey him too.
