Myriad Edition
>To make cards, download MSE for free from here
http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/
>Mechanics doc (For the making of color pie appropriate cards)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgaKCOzyqM48dFdKRXpxTDRJelRGWVZabFhUU0RMcEE
>Formatting FAQ
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Jn1J1Mj-EvxMxca8aSRBDj766rSN8oSQgLMOXs10BUM
>Q: Can there be a sixth color?
A: http://pastebin.com/kNAgwj7i
>Q: What's the difference between multicolor and hybrid?
A: http://pastebin.com/yBnGki1C
>Art sources.
http://digital-art-gallery.com/
http://www.artstation.com/
http://drawcrowd.com/
http://fantasygallery.net/
http://grognard.booru.org/
http://fantasy-art-engine.tumblr.com/
>Stitch cards together with
http://www.photojoiner.net/
>/ccg/ sets (completed and in development)
http://pastebin.com/hsVAbnMj
Old thread's this way: >>43420342
Nephilim are hard.
Black because graveyard shenanigans. Blue because artifacts. White because enchantments. Green because creatures, but not really?
>>43468446
Black and blue definitely, and at a stretch green and white. Slap on land abilities and it definitely becomes green. There will be edge cases where it not being an artifact or enchantment could cause some rule kerfuffles.
I like it because it's clearly not red while still reasonably each of its other colors. Good job.
>>43468426
You missed the goat
>>43468426
Deathouch on the archer is a bit much but i like the card a lot.
>>43468426
I've seen a couple variations of this card, it's pretty cool. I think the name should have a comma in it though: Adventurers, Assemble!
>>43469696
If the top card is a Planeswalker, that guy would go to the graveyard for not having any loyalty counters on him, right?
>>43475269
Technically, yes, per CR 306.9/704.5i.
Can you guys rate my Planeswalkers? Based on this snowflake
>>43475522
First
>>43475541
Second
>>43475541
The first ability should be "Put two +1/+1 counters on up to one target creature."
"Target creature of your choice" is redundant, and "up to one" is necessary so that it can be plussed if you control no creatures.
>>43475541
>>43475560
Both of the ultimates seem underwhelming.
>>43475541
The +1 needs to be usable on a blank board.
>Put two +1/+1 counters on up to one target creature.
Otherwise, seems fine. A very typical Ajani effect, a sort of Proteus Staff/Polymorph effect, and Vorel. If anything, his ult is rather underwhelming.
>>43475560
For clarity's sake, I'd make the token something besides a Saproling, simply because 1/1 Saprolings are everywhere and keeping track of which ones have lifelink could be a pain.
>>43475656
thx
>Both of the ultimates seem underwhelming.
Any suggestions to beef them up? I rather they be underpowered than over but i suppose they could use a boost.
>>43475667
>If anything, his ult is rather underwhelming.
>I'd make the token something besides a Saproling
Suggestions?
>>43475740
Fixed, how do they look?
>>43475522
>Aio
>Aio
>Aio
>Aio
>Aio
muh pronouns
>>43476299
I believe that for the -2 on the Simic one, since "Sacrifice a creature" is part of the effect and not the cost, it could be used when the player has no creatures and they would still get to put one on the battlefield. If that's not what you were aiming for, you could add the words "If you do," to the beginning of the second sentence.
>>43475269
Aside from the Planeswalker issue (you could ditch haste and add some wording to deal with that), this is a really, really cool card.
What would drugs be like in mtg?
>>43485746
whatever
>>43485746
Something like this, I imagine.
>>43485746
>>43487056
I have a fairly different idea about this.
>>43475269
This actually makes sense as per the fluff. Creatures you control are compelled to serve you, but Planeswalkers you control only do so because you have bought their loyalty. If a summoned creature suddenly got the ability to Planeswalk it would almost certainly use that ability to break its shackles and fuck off to someplace else, someplace where some dickbag wasn't trying to get him to punch rhinos in the face.
>>43485746
Here is a green version.
>>43487751
That is a UB card.
>>43490844
>B
That effect has some precedence on blue, but not black.
>>43491445
Praetor's Grasp is one
>>43491544
Praetor's Grasp is black because it tutors. Not only that, but you can cast it whenever you want instead of until end of turn.
>>43491445
Doesn't change the fact that it has none in red.
>>43487751
>>43490844
>>43491445
I do think it should be blue based on precedence, but that effect is really red(impulsive and short-sighted) and blue kind of does everything.
>>43491650
I am not the one who made the card.
>>43491597
Its also on a bunch of U/B cards
>>43491296
Neat
>>43491657
I wonder if I'm the only card maker here that likes blue, and at the same time tends to nerf the shit out of it in my sets, because I agree. It needs a more defined slice of the pie. The underlying issue is that its slice is "changes the game to suit itself" which means you can literally justify it doing anything, which is stupid. The direction MtG is taking in becoming creature-centric is also not helping because blue is supposed to be bad at creatures. I guess they'll just have to compensate by making it bad at Power, decent at Toughness, and good at ETB/activated abilities, with the ETB having to be second to white, since white is all about that shit.
>>43491763
The biggest issue is Maro not seeing his hypocricy. Red and green can't get certain things based on flavor alone. It needs to be within their mechanical sphere.
And yet, blue gets tons of things that really shouldn't be in it's mechanical sphere, just because of flavor.
>>43491696
I could only find a few cards with a similar effect, but not a black card. Knacksaw Clique, Ornate Kanzashi, Daxos of Meletis. All other had some kind of restriction like instant of sorcery only, or it was different in some way like cast without paying its mana cost.
Here's some blue.
>>43491881
That's not OP at all.
Should change it to 'Prevent any damage that would reduce you to 0 life or less and discard that many cards instead. If you can't discard a card, you lose the game.' Except format it correctly.
>>43491855
Oh yeah, the UB version is "cast w/o paying its mana cost". I forgot that bit. You'd find a lot more examples with that addendum. Still, not really a red card.
>>43491881
>>43491908
I like it the way he has it better, frankly. It's more interesting. It does need to have the power level adjusted though. Adding a "skip your draw step" would help so you have to rely on external draw sources.
>>43491763
>>43491836
Maro is known for its double standards, he wants to give red reach, because it hates fliers, but it is the exact opposite when you look at the cards, red actually hates when things don't fly.
>>43491908
Perhaps
>If a source would deal damage to a player, you may discard X cards. If you do, prevent X of that damage.
Based off the wording from Battletide Alchemist.
>>43492076
That'd be an awful card though
>>43492013
You're right, I hadn't considered that the draw step draw you get each turn would make it really annoying.
>>43492076
This kind of loses the spirit of the card though and starts to feel more white. I'd sooner make it more expensive to cast.
>>43492128
Yeah, probably needs to scale better. Like "Prevent 3 damage for each card discarded this way."
>>43487751
I see that my card has made quite a discussion about what each color should do. I had in mind Ornate Kanzashi + Lantern of Insight combo, and thought that effect would be red now.
>>43492296
Even that is pretty poor
>>43492317
I think it's very much Red Black.
On a development note, probably should cost more.
>>43491763
I have a distaste for blue and go from "Overly cautious" attitude towards blue to "Make it all shit" depending on how bad maro's asspull of the week is
Also, blue shouldn't be good with ETB shit either, since that's a large portion of why creatures are so good now
>>43492029
MaRo's a bit of a hack and needs to be replaced.
PReferably by someone with an opposite bias.
>>43492673
Ehhh, I don't completely agree with that. Firstly, it really does seem like he's the only one pushing for the color pie being as strong as it is. Despite his biases, that's much better than what I notice in products he doesn't work on, like the commander products or some core sets. There you can definitely see that the ulterior motive is more "let's pimp out my deck" with the color warping commander cards or things like hornet queen showing up because it's powerful and people like power no matter what. Remember, most players don't care about the color pie or anything. And secondly, even if someone new took up the mantle of enforcing the idea of the color pie, I'd prefer them to be as unbiased as possible rather than just swinging it the other direction from maro's personal biases.
>>43492817
Sixed is a word?
>>43492842
>deep-six
>verb NORTH AMERICAN informal
>past tense: deep-sixed; past participle: deep-sixed
>destroy or dispose of (something) irretrievably.
>"someone had deliberately deep-sixed evidence"
Technically no because it's informal, but it's a phrase
>>43492963
What part of the US/canada do they say that in?
>>43492987
Literally anywhere with a CSI show.
>>43492987
Honestly, the only time I ever remember hearing it out loud is from some of Three Dog's radio dialogue from the game Fallout 3
>>43493028
>>43493045
Well it's dumb and i hate it so change it
Or if you want a better argument, the mere fact that you had to explain it to someone who LIVES in the US (and the fact that it appears to be archaic slang) is probably a good sign to not go for it
>>43493115
Nah
>>43493115
>14 year old gets mad because he's an uncultured swine
Don't worry, you'll mature eventually.
>>43493180
Really, for a lot of my cards I'm not too attached to the flavor because they aren't made for a set or anything, so it's all transient. Like, if I were to actually make a set and include some of them, the flavor would probably end up being changed anyways to fit with the set.
I just try and pretty them up for posting since that helps with getting comments on the cards.
>>43493190
It's like you didn't even read the second line and/or don't understand the concept of humor
>>43493115
To be fair, Magic cards often use archaic (Jokulhaups, Fylgja, Acquisitor) or made up (Rhystic, Transreliquat) words in their names.
Although digging for those made me realize how the vast majority of Magic cards are pretty well named, with any nonstandard words typically being proper nouns (Vedalken) or evocative compounds (Rotworm, Dragonlord, Aethermage).
>>43492591
This sounds like the kind of flavor text that should be a quote.
>>43493356
Jokulhaups is pretty easy to understand what it means by the art/effect, and like flygja it's old as shit and from a set that they admitted they were trying to get nordic sounding words (Lhyrgoyf anyone?) As for acquisitor, that's EASY to understand what it means if you've heard the word "acquisition" or "Acquire"
"Deep-sixed" is sorta nonsensical in it's meaning
>>43493424
Probably. Thinking of fantasy names is hard tho.
>>43493479
I understood deep sixed pretty easily as a sort of six feet under thing
>>43493523
Fnerb Dankhallow
>>43493558
I literally just got that after I sent my message, but still, it's a bit more of a jump than acquisitor, especially since it requires you know ANOTHER slang term to get it.
Also, like I said, context clues go a long way, the acquisitor card's effect involves stealing things and the art even shows the character doing such, jokulhaups' art speaks for itself, as does the effect and flavor text
>>43493566
thnx bby
>>43493627
Isn't there already a battle elemental? Or was it something similar like war elemental?
Also, Dat hundred handed one
>>43493624
Well that card gives you a reward when it gets removed from the graveyard, which is usually going to be exile, and even if not has flavor of the dead body being gotten rid of.
>>43493644
War Elemental is what you're thinking of, yeah.
>>43493479
I feel like if there's a good complaint, it's that it's overly slangy for standard Magic naming, but that's a set by set thing. After all, we did get the split cards, which are all paired phrases, and stuff like Kaboom!.
Not to mention the vast array of fae names from Llorwyn, like "merrow" and "lammastide". Throw in other classics like "porphyry", "samite", "phthisis" and "moraine" and you've got the beginnings of a vocabulary test from hell.
Even as slangy as it is, it's a lot more understandable than "Terminal Moraine" or "Porphyry Nodes".
>>43490565
>Whenever a creature you control attacks alone, you may pay 1G. If you do, that creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
>>43492963
>"someone had deliberately deep-sixed evidence"
That is a terrible fucking example. I have never heard "deep-sixed" refer to anything other than a body (six feet under).
>>43493787
Ok, I'm POSITIVE stone elemental's already a card
>>43493889
Nope
>>43493889
According to gatherer it is not.
>>43493840
Pretty sure dead bodies can be evidence.
>>43493889
Coal stoker but it's pretty close.
>>43493925
Saying "evidence" when referring to a body is being purposely obtuse.
I have an idea for a card, but no clue for a name.
1R
Enchantment
Discard 2 cards; draw a card. ~ deals 1 damage to you.
Thoughts?
>>43494458
I find myself asking this question a lot, but why? Madness deck?
>>43494723
Red is all about the immediate effects of what's happening right now. Turfing 2 cards that aren't useful right now for the chance to have something that is, is probably going to be useful. Also for decks with pyromancer's ascension, easier triggers for that. Or madness. There's probably a few other decks that could use it too.
>>43494972
Needs some black in it for that first ability, unless you change it to -1/-0
>>43495066
Why is Battlefield Artificer a wizard and not an artificer
>>43495375
Forgot that was a creature type
feedback? I wanted to do something with grandeur
>>43495697
Removing poison counters is white since it's a form of healing
>>43495704
What if his grandeur ability gave you poison counters?
>>43495747
that'd work
>>43495704
I'm gonna be the asshole that points out there's literally one card in the entire game that does this. Yes, it's white, but it's still not much precedent.
Also you shouldn't remove poison counters, otherwise poison just becomes a second life total.
>>43495697
A) Beyond weak for a mythic rare. This is junk rare at best.
B) Corner case card/mythic rare
C) It's grandeur is probably the weakest ability in the game.
D) There would never be a time I would want to put more than 1 of these in my deck. If even sideboard bait.
E) This is more of a pet peeve than feedback but the "green, blue, and black" ability is "ok yeah, I see the card is GUB for the sake of being a GUB card". There's a term for this but I don't know what it's called. Yes, I understand a lot of new cards are very "bleh" with this.
More feedback: I'd have the lich give YOU poison counters as an activated ability in exchange for BETTER abilities and his Grandeur could still remove them from you so the card AT LEAST does something rather than nothing 95% of the time.
It would also go with the flavor text more.
>>43492591
You could probably cost this at UB and be MORE than ok.
But this is pretty cool. It feels like a classic card. Reminds me of something from The Dark.
>>43495843
White is also the color removing poison counters should be in though, ignoring their permanence.
Just because there's only one card as precedent, doesn't mean it's wrong. Removing poison really would be white.
This would be printed in a standard format without fetches (Modern could handle it).
>>43496742
>>43468446
What happened to the options for having set name and rarity on the bottom of the card? I've downloaded MSE 2.0 on a new computer and they simply aren't there.
>>43496694
That +2 comes off as strange, but I don't necessarily hate it. The emblem is very nice for a commander.
>>43496722
It needs to specify who controls the land that it's grabbing. People might complain that it should grab basics only, but you addressed that already.
>>43496730
Hm. It could probably tap for 1 too, since it does nothing on its own.
>>43496773
I know reach is tertiary in white, but it feels strange, since white's anti-flying is its own flying/archer effects. Still, it works I suppose. Ironically the reach removes any offensive capabilities it might have.
>>43496868
Would it make more sense if it were a Hedron creature type instead of Elemental?
>>43496876
This feels like it should be UB, though it'd be more flavorful as Sultai colors I think.
>>43496897
A Hedron creature? How odd. But yeah, that'd be really neat, actually. Your edict seems a bit cheap on the front end at first, but Innocent Blood is a thing so I suppose not. The rest seems fine to me.
>>43496694
Why does this Nahiri have nothing to do with Equipments, and why is she even caring about lands?
>>43496722
See Restore for wording and costing.
>>43496868
I think it would be a cleaner design if it was just R: Target Elemental gains haste until eot.
>>43496897
Note that Innocent Blood is a very strong card, so be careful when making strictly betters.
>>43496985
I like. Feels more white than black though.
Once again, I am stuck on making a UG mechanic. I love the color combo, but I can't for the life of me come up with good mechanics for it. I feel like it should be an ability word though, if I can manage it. I thought about making it revolve around drawing, like "Whenever you draw a card anytime besides your draw step, <do thing>." Wording isn't airtight but it conveys the concept well enough. GU loves self-improvement and G is the secondary with black in draw so I think it could work.
>>43497206
>Artist
Well, I wanted her to give it to herself too, so it does come across as a bit wonky. I guess I could just include it in her casting cost and give her haste permanently, then do as you're suggesting.
>Chains
Thanks. Yeah, it does feel white, but I think it manages to stay black since the attack isn't a condition for the destroy, it's a condition for the draw. It's still a Murder+ effect, and not a Chastise effect in that way I think.
>>43496985
This is pretty cool since the way of working for the card draw is interesting.
Honestly, this seems more like a mono black card to me.
>>43497236
Ability on card draw would probably work well enough.
The card you posted there needs to be RR I think. It's a tough position because making it 2R, which is more in line with what it should be, ends up making it more powerful on the Recall. But I seriously don't think it can get away with 1R, so RR might be better.
Another one of those creature type affecting things.
Dunno if I'm going anywhere with it or just making a handful of cards.
>>43497608
No. No. No no no no no.
>>43497476
Well, I wouldn't be comfortable with costing it the same as Murder, so I think at the very least it's comfortable being a bit tougher to cast given the added effect. And the additional mana being blue with the additional effect being blue doesn't hurt the flavor.
>Hydra
I really like the simplicity of this. Very nice.
>>43497500
Yeah, Recall is strange because it's worse on cheaper spells, and better on more expensive ones, and it means that you have to be aware what your expensive spells do as a result to avoid giving them too much value. I can see making it RR. Pic related is what I came up with for the draw mechanic, by the way. I have a few other ideas for it if it doesn't work out.
>>43497608
This would be very strong in Limited. It'd be a beast in my set since every creature is a Wizard. I think it's "Human creatures you control are..." but I can find evidence for both ways so I'm not sure. I'd have to look more closely at it. Balance-wise, considering Azure Mage just straight gives you card draw for the same activation cost... it's close, but since you get evasion out of this one and the draw is conditional, I think maybe it should be a touch harder to use, since you will likely get the draw and the rest is gravy.
>>43497692
Oops, supposed to be a 1/3.
>>43497702
>>43497692
In that case, on the chains, I'd sooner side with another anon and recommend a price of 1WB or WBB.
Oracle seems fine. Surprised it's not a 2/2.
>>43475429
Seems really strong. Maybe make sacrificing sorcery speed?
>>43497776
I know this is going to sound very strange, but there is no WB faction in this set, so I can't do that even if I wanted to unfortunately.
If I can make the Oracle a 2/2, hell, sure I will. I was going off Omenspeaker; that one is a guaranteed Scry bu I erred on the side of caution since you can trigger this one repeatedly and gave it the same body.
>Library
I take it this is meant to work with self-mill and such? I mean, you can pay the life, but you're not always going to want to. Also, the cost seems a fair bit low for how strong this is.
>>43497858
Well omenspeaker is also monocolored.
The library does work with self mill a bit, as well as shuffling effects, but that wasn't the main intent. It was more that I was trying to make a correctly colored Sylvan Library. That's also why I have it at two mana, although that might not be correct. It's hard for me to puzzle out, since this version isn't just all upside, as to draw just one card a turn you're still paying 2 life.
>>43497912
Well, you're paying less total life to keep all the cards than you are with Sylvan Library, which is why I think it feels a bit too good. You do have a point about needing to pay two life to even keep the normal one card you'd get every turn, but getting all three for less total life is some concerning power creep. It is harder to cast, but I think given how much more library manipulation UB has, it might be more comfortable at 1UB?
I think this card might be too good, but it's hard to tell.
which one?
>>43497939
I would like this a lot more if it didn't tap to activate the ability, but instead used blue mana. This would make it more difficult to use both abilities in the same turn.
>>43497955
Like a guildmage? I could do that. Though of the two, I wanted the siren ability to be the limited one. I'm not too sure how to cost it in that case, since it seems like the additional utility would force both abilities to be pricier as a result.
>cards
I think #1 is better. It's more concise, and easier to track. It's a weak card (compared to things like Soul's Attendant) but it's still useful. Also, I like it because it's similar to an ability word in my set.
>>43497964
I was thinking something along the lines of 2U, but perhaps it could be 1U, T?
Honestly, a big part of why I prefer that, which I forgot to mention, is that I think the real gem of the card is the black activated ability. So making the blue one cost mana means it's less of a no-brainer to activate. Which means the black ability gets more time to shine, because then there are cases where you would only activate the black ability by itself. And that's pretty cool I think.
>>43497955
I wish I could make a full set with art like this
>>43497973
Them both being 2C would be nice and symmetrical, I suppose. I'll change it and see what people think of it later on. I might give it some power to let it swing though, in that case.
>imp
"draw a number of cards equal to the difference. You lose that much life." I think? It might be right as is, kinda tired so hard to brain right now.
>>43497992
This is hilarious. Under the right circumstances, this would be infuriating to be forced to do.
pushin the envelope
>>43499662
This is basically just a green Pacifism.
With Flash at 2G would make it more fun
>>43495697
>>43495843
>>43495889
I have to agree with the whiteness of the grandeur. Is there any reason this needs to be sultai? It would have perfect coloration as abzan, BG is strong enough at card draw that the blue is completely superfluous if you don't want it for faction identity or something like that (maybe it's colored that way for EDH?)
Just touching on the rarity a bit, this is exactly what mythic rares should be. That orange icon shouldn't mean "this card was way too powerful to put anywhere else" it should mean "this card pushes the boundaries of the game, possibly in a way that appears useless unless built around." Mythic should be for timmy and johnny in other words, not spike.
>>43496868
Very cool. Giving the 2/1 haste almost seems too expensive but I get that it's mostly there to enable future attacks and appreciate the option when it shows up in the late game.
>>43497236
Card looks fine, possible weak in the environment without knowing what 1 cmc instants you have in the set but in a vacuum it's solid.
>ug mechanic
This might be too weird for you but what about "whenever a card enters your hand without being drawn/from a zone other than your library/whatever wording is cleanest"? Both colors can bounce their own permanents, green pulls things from the graveyard and blue has enough precedent for things like buyback and flashback to fit a couple enablers there at uncommon and rare.
>>43497608
>>43497624
Love the flavor of this. Not sure if the Azami issue has any real weight to it, wizards are almost as common as humans anyway and both options require casting all of the dudes so it's not really any more efficient.
>>43506515
Should cost 1UU since it's not a major downside, especially if you're only splashing blue.
![3fordtheriver[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/gr59nSU.png "3fordtheriver[1].png")
>>43506327
> River Crossing
That just gave me an idea: Oregon Trail themed set.
Just an interesting general design note, the other day I had an exchange about whether a strictly better Jace's Ingenuity was too good but based on the confluence cycle it does indeed appear that that is what we should be striving for in terms of official power level. I also think Mystic Confluence goes too far with it but it is something worth noting, everyone remember to tag decent upsides on your 5 mana draw 3 spells going forward.
>>43506758
It depends on what format you're aiming for. Mystic Confluence might be too strong to be printed for Modern or Standard.
>>43506758
Commander sets are significantly more powerful than standard level sets. 5 mana instant speed draw 3 is almost certainly the norm and abides by the vertical cycle magic has maintained for decades.
>divination/counsel, concentration, tidings
>inspiration, JI, Ingenuity
I see 0 reason to buff JI at all, if anything I'd buff divination/inspiration, but I don't think that's necessary either.
>>43506758
Mystic Confluence is made for a casual set and can also be played on eternal formats. Cards printed in commander does not take the power level of the cards printed for standard.
Jace's ingenuity is still base for a draw 3 with no drawbacks.
>>43506758
While it's already been pointed out that mystic confluence is going a bit nuts there, as those commander products are want to do, I do partially agree with this. In general, a pretty good safe bet is if you take a "basic" core set card, you can add a tiny oomph to it based on your set's theme.
Thinking about White
>>43507209
This is pretty awful compared to sign in blood
My latest dilemma - whether to use real names or terrible made up names.
>>43507201
Use shift+enter so that you don't get that extra space between lines. The two modes feel too disparate, such that it's a rare deck that wants both options. Though here it's not that big a deal since you're not paying an option tax for either choice.
>>43507209
Why would I want this over Read the Bones?
>>43507680
>If you would draw a card, you may instead EFFECT.
It shouldn't be able to hit lands.
>>43507783
I feel like at 5 mana it should be able to hit lands. You're saying just straight up banishing light still?
>>43507827
White doesn't really do targeted land removal
>>43504048
>artist
Yeah, I got someone saying it needs to be simplified a bit and now you like it as it is. Hm. As I stated before, based on the first feedback, I could possibly just give the Artist hard-coded haste, and make the Elemental enabler cheaper, but I am with you in that I kinda like how it works at the moment. It feels more like a late game play that you can fudge early if you need to, which is what I wanted since Red is always lacking for solid late game, cheap stuff.
>Repetition
Hm. Now this is a pickle. The other anon claims it's too good as-is, saying RR would be better, but now I have you saying it's a touch weak. I suppose I have to stew over it then. Maybe the answer will feel more apparent once I get more cards made.
>ug mechanic
>>43497692 is what I came up with.
>>43509109
For repetition, it probably depends largely on what one mana things are in the set. Unless you also want to balance around eternal formats, in which case 1 mana spells are some of the most powerful.
>>43509474
Yeah I do kind of prefer to balance my sets as though they were going to be included in the regular game, so there's that to consider. I just feel, personally, that it's a fair challenge for myself, and makes my efforts feel more legitimate to a degree.
>bees
BEES. I'd rather have had this than Hornet Queen and all that crap.
>>43509556
Cuz in that case, what you've got there is a two mana burn 2 that draws you the card Lightning Bolt.
That's pretty savage.
>>43509672
Indeed, it can be. But is it broken in eternal formats? I suppose I could make it a Sorcery but that, more than most spells, would really nerf the hell out of it I think.
>>43509728
I'm not sure. It's some extreme recursion that's pretty tough to balance, especially when you include all of magic's mistakes. But yeah, making it sorcery probably isn't much better than scrapping it.
>>43509938
Are you implying recall is a bad idea for a keyword in general then? It'd be a shame to have to scrap it but the set is early in development so i guess it isn't a huge loss. Because the more expensive recall spells can obviously grab lighting bolt too.
>>43510342
The big issue with recall is that it's more akin to Retrace or Buyback than Flashback or Rebound. With flashback and rebound you get the double dip, but then it's going to be done. Here though, with recall, you can potentially keep grabbing the same spell over and over with all your recall cards.
I dunno if that makes it not worth doing at all, but it is a strike against it.
>>43506835
>>43506969
>>43506979
As I said, Mystic Confluence goes way too far with it. I do think there is merit in strictly better ingenuities though, does anyone here actually consider that a strong card?
>>43507209
This seems both overcomplicated and kind of terrible. Maybe you have some specific deck in mind where this would be great but as it stands you need to be close to death for it to be worth casting and then it doesn't seem to justify pushing you even closer to death. Normally when blacks spends all of its life on something it's doing it to win that turn. The multiple modes make it a somewhat interesting design but that's the only positive thing I can say about the card, not a fan of any part of this.
>>43507680
Neat. This is a good example of a design that seems to throw a lot of disparate elements together but makes them all work towards the same purpose. Pretty neutral on the lands thing, it is a bit bleed-y but it's so bad if used for that that it really doesn't matter.
>>43507783
Both. Making up dinosaurs makes it easier to create a fantasy setting that translates to an interesting card game but familiarity is also great and it makes finding art easier if that's your thing.
>>43509109
That's bland but it works. Every mechanic doesn't have to be mind-blowing.
>>43509556
>>43509672
Yeah, but a two mana shock is pretty terrible in those formats. "Gets back a top-tier card" is a great upside but why aren't you just putting four more top-tier burn spells in your deck instead? It might see play but it's far from a format-warper so as long as it works in the environment it's actually introduced in everything should be fine as-is.
>war
It's... ok? It's a one-sided wipe but costs 7 in three colors. You basically win if they don't have removal or a non-combat wincon though, even if it's acceptable I'm not big on such extreme cards. What if it also forced blocking? That's even more war-like and gives them the out of swinging for 7.
>>43510381
>>43510446
What if i did it like an impulse flashback?
"Recall (As this spell resolves, you may exile a card that shares a type with it from your graveyard. Until end of turn, you may cast that card. If you do, exile out as it resolves.)"
Something like this?
>>43510621
Err, that last bit should probably be worded differently but you get the idea. Probably too close to Flashback though.
>>43510446
>about mystic confluence
It is not about being strong, it is about being power reference.
For example Elite Vanguard, a 1cmc 2/1 vanilla. Weaker than that, and they will have plus abilities, stronger than that, it will have minus abilities.
>>43510621
>>43510668
Yeah that sounds more like a nested keyword going on there.
I mean, looking at it another way, what's the goal of this mechanic? Like, not what the mechanic is, but instead what space it's taking up, why you have it like it is, and what you want it to accomplish in the set.
>>43510847
Except at this point there are TONS of better elite vanguards.
Those kind of basic cards are great for core sets, but expert expansions often expand on those types of things instead of just leaving them be.
>>43468409
>Myriad Edition
I feel like Myriad was wasted on this set, I really hope for a Conspiracy 2 draft with Myriad
>>43510866
You can argue that wizards is bad at balancing, but there isn't any card that is a straight up better version of elite vangaurd.
>>43510446
>does anyone here actually consider that a strong card?
It's strong enough. It has been playable in pretty much every standard that it has been in.
Honestly I think powerful instant speed draw for blue is bad game design in general (nothing even against draw-go decks I just prefer them with more 'go' and less 'draw') so I don't get why you're so adamant about making a better version of an arguably poorly designed card.
Can you safely make a better version of JI? Sure. Should you? I doubt it.
>>43510850
The set is basically Ravnica meets Hogwarts. Many more noncreature spells than in a typical mtg set. So things like evoke make an appearance. I wanted a new recursion mechanic but flashback might just be easier for the UR faction. Still In early development of course. Also many creatures will have activated abilities to convey that "wizards" feel.
>>43510935
Dragon Hunter, Dryad Militant (technically arguable, but not really), Mardu Woe-Reaper, Soldier of the Pantheon
And if you go "muh human soldier tribal" I will not take you seriously.
>>43510962
Hm, I worry about your goal and evoke. Because, if anything, evoke makes it so that you want MORE creatures, because it pretty much necessitates that creatures take up design that spells could be doing. Like, having both giant growth, the creature, and giant growth, the instant, is kinda awkward.
If you have both more spells AND evoke creatures, it seems like things will be kinda crowded.
That's just my first analysis of it though, I might be off.
So, UR is (I imagine, instant/sorcery) recusion, hm? The trick here is that, not-soulshift is a lot different on nonpermanents because they trigger it immediately on resolution. Maybe some way to fight that by delaying it?
Like,
Rehearse 4 (Exile this card and four other cards from your graveyard to cast a spell from your graveyard that shares a type with it with CMC 4 or less)
There's a lot of fiddly bits there to mess with and change, but something about wiping things out of the grave to use what's left? That makes it so you can't overload on the mechanic and go recursion chaining crazy, but still encourages lots of nonpermanents because those fill up the grave faster. Also, blue gets self mill and draw/discard, and red still PROBABLY can have looting or tooling. Also, at higher rarities probably some cute things about being able to cast the cards you exile as part of that until end of turn or something.
>>43510986
And they are all strong cards. If you want your set to have a higher power level, go for it, but if you want to keep it on common grounds, you shouldn't take them as reference.
>>43511198
>but there isn't any card that is a straight up better version of elite vangaurd.
I was replying to these words
>>43511166
Well when i say many more i sort of include evoke in that, so between the noncreature stuff and evoke you will be looking at around 50% of your cards being spells or spell like, give or take. Again, early stages so well see how it's shakes up.
I'll keep your thoughts on that mechanic in mind when considering what to do. Yard interaction will be a thing so we'll see what i can come up with when u get the chance to work on this later tonight.
Blegh. I wanna experience making a set again but my favorite magic is Core Set Platonic Ideal of Magic so it's hard to come up with anything actually original that I'm a fan of.
>>43511365
Cool. I like the set stuff you come up withassuming I'm not wrong about which anonymous poster you are.
>>43511438
Ah, the delayed narcolepsy. Making it cost more and cantrip is an interesting solution.
Glad you like my stuff assuming i am who you think i am. I think you should get a set symbol too.
>>43468409
Anybody make a spider legendary yet?
>>43510951
>so adamant
I'm not. I've had a suspicion that there is room to add upsides to cards of this type, WotC confirmed those suspicions (to a debatable degree) and I mentioned it for discussion. People replied, I responded. It's not really something I'm very invested in, just something that seems interesting to note for people making sets since big blue draw spells tend to be a staple.
For what it's worth this is the card from the other thread that started the discussion. So when I say upsides I'm talking about very minor upsides.
>>43511365
What are your mechanics? Recall, evoke (colors?), UG drawing thing... what are the other two? I don't know that it makes much of a difference but I'm still curious.
>>43511761
Ahem...
>>43511524
>I think you should get a set symbol too.
Mmmmaybe, that's a lot of accountability haha. And I'd wanna actually puzzle out a set to work on.
>>43511591
I got this. Amusingly, almost every single spider legend I see is something like this. Spiders are pretty evocative I guess.
>>43511761
>>43511777
Here's another example from a different project with manifest as a mechanic.
>>43511805
That thing is terrifying with self mill. I guess it just creates a super efficient wall though, you can do worse with six mana. You're right about legendary spiders too, a lot of them seem to do things very similar to this.
>>43511853
I like this more than the Einar one because the bonus is smaller. I think being able to scale the scrying to your liking is a bit much on that.
>>43491296
Cost might be a bit too low, I would recommend maybe one or two additional neutral mana
>>43511761
>>43511777
Yeah, I saw the card last thread, it's printable but I don't see the point of printing it.
That upside is almost worth a mana on its own but whatever.
>>43511853
I just don't get why you want to do this... at all. In the context of a set it could make sense, but there isn't any context so it just doesn't.
>>43511911
Too expensive and it becomes worthless. If I made it more expensive I'd need to give something like meance
>>43511902
>cooldown
First off that is the name of a troll's mechanic from a long time ago, you can still use it but it's somewhat funny.
The wording should be something like "When you tap this card it doesn't untap during your next untap step" currently it does nothing.
Your card is also super terrible, it's basically Teferi's Isle except way way worse.
I also don't know if I like cooldown in general, seems like a lot of board complication for comparatively little interesting gameplay.
>>43511761
>mechanics
I can post them when i get home in an hour or so.
too good or fine?
>>43513252
Why not just give him 2 +1/+1 counters?
>>43513483
Easier this way for the creature type change. I don't see why not have it this way either???
>>43513543
Not him, but is there any special reason for the human turn into a bear?
If you followed his suggestion, it would cut down a couple lines and make it easier to play as you won't need to keep 4/4 bear tokens.
Original Art Do Not Steal
>>43513614
I imagine there would be if it were a set.
I'm really not bothered by the "need a token thing" since you don't actually need official tokens anyways. It's not really that big of a deal, is it?
>>43497964
I'd shorten it to "Opportunist" And I assume this is going to primarily be RB?
>>43511805
Spiders have a very clearly defined mechanical identity by this point, I guess. I always forget that one RG Spider that makes insect tokes isn't legendary though.
>>43513752
Having tokens is not a big deal if you have proper token cards, if you are using dices or paper, it starts being a mess if there are too many different tokens to be represented.
>>43514503
Well this card only ever makes one single token and it's an "existing" one, as the 4/4 bear token from Khans so
>>43511591
>>43513835
Yes, it is. Good eye. Also yeah, shortened is probably better.
>>43511761
Okay, mechanics:
Evoke (all colors)
Recall (UR) (tentatively)
Seal (WGu)
Opportunist (BRu)
Sift (UB)
Epiphany (UG)
The reason for the lower-case letters is that U will only get access to those keywords if the casting cost or activation cost on the card contains that color of mana. So any card that has W or G on it can have Seal, if it also has U on it, and W and G will have it by themselves as well. A UG creature that has Seal on it as an activated ability, for example, would have to have the ability cost G. So that's why the lower-case representation for that. Same with Opportunist.
Pic related has all of them so you can read the reminder texts and whatnot. Recall is subject to change and I have an idea what to do with it. The rest seem to be less controversial so are probably set to go. Sift has had a bit of a facelift; it is now a crappier "Fategest" more than it was, which was the point of it.
>>43514726
"It" should be CARDNAME so it's clear which creature the ability affects.
>>43476299
where are the arts from, anon? I can't find em on Google and I think they're eminently adorable
>>43514945
And here's the proposed mechanic to replace Recall. Resonant is basically (hopefully) the non-parasitic replacement for Splice onto Arcane.
>>43515216
Flip them clauses around.
>Whenever you cast a spell that shares a type with ~, you may exile ~ from your graveyard. If you do, [effect].
>>43515284
That's expensive for how niche it is
>>43515326
I wasn't sure how to cost it based on decks that would use... oh hey, the only card you can use with it for shenanigans is Magnetic Theft. I thought there were more.
>>43515284
Seems incredibly niche, given that you can only steal creatures with Magnetic Theft.
>>43515386
You could use it with act of treason as well but it still doesn't warrant being that expensive
>>43515429
That is true.
>>43515386
Feels like it should only fire off on your turn, since it gets way too good in a creatureless control shell. Or change one of the colors to green, a color that will want to have creatures around.
>>43515386
Whoops forgot a "When there are no creatures on the battlefield, sacrifice ~."
>>43515326
>>43515396
>>43515429
>>43515466
So how does 1 CMC/2 equip sound?
>>43515490
That'd be fine but it should probably do something else as well, as its not really worth the combo
>>43513252
On the upper end of fine.
>>43514726
Haste tribal is always neat. Slightly undercosted, a 4/2 with haste usually either costs more or just dashes for 3. Also like >>43515020 said you should clarify what "it" refers to, especially since unlike them I interpreted it as the creature triggering the effect getting the bonus. Clearly it's unclear.
>>43514945
I've seen opportunistic but must have missed the set symbol, good to finally make that connection. Any reason your colors are all over the place? I'm all for mixed enemy and ally groupings but white is shafted here while blue gets loads of love (even being tertiary in the two abilities it doesn't fully get). Is this going to be like a blue Torment or what?
One easy fix to both problems would be to drop recall/resonant entirely and put in a RW mechanic in its place. It could even have a similar function, like you recur the card whenever a creature you control deals a certain amount of combat damage or something. Or you could go another direction, storm based off number of attacking creatures could be a fun RW mechanic for a spell-centric set.
>>43515284
So basically this is for red to slap on things you hit with Act of Treason type stuff, to make it stick? That kind of thing?
Also, do I really need to ~ that often in the ability text? Its so damn wordy. I wonder if there is a better way to do it. Maybe keyword the Resonant action then say what happens when the card gets exiled? I dunno. Something like:
"Resonant (Whenever you cast a spell that shares a type with this, you may exile this from your graveyard.)
Whenever ~ becomes exiled, it deals 1 damage to target creature or player."
I dunno if that'd really save space though, to be honest.
>>43515386
I don't think this is worded correctly but I'd have to do some serious digging to find out. Interesting effect.
>>43515396
This is a very very round-about way to make a 4/4 for 2W that also gives you an artifact you can sac for things. Yeah, you need another creature to attach the shackles to to use this, but white will have tokens out the ass more often than not. It's an interesting idea, but could be replicated with Echo I feel.
>>43515582
Yeah, control shenanigans are my jam.
>>43515515
Now it gives +1/+1 and vigilance because... it's hard to sleep with all the whispering, or something.
>>43515555
There is a reason the color distribution looks so strange... I'm not sure I want to spoil it just yet. I will if I have to though.
What do you think of >>43515216 (worded properly, of course) as a replacement for Recall?
>>43515466
This feels like a reprint. Or close to one. I feel like I have seen this before.
>>43515490
>>43515629
Hm.CYCLES?
The sac ability is pretty strong. The red ramp one... eh. Blue mill one is terrible unless you're running Madness or Delve or something, and the black discard one is the same, though I get the feeling that's the point, so maybe they're okay. That said, I feel like the altars themselves could be CMC3 maybe.
>>43515020
>>43515555
Fair enough. The intent was for the triggering creature to get the bonus the turn it enters, as it's a smushed together Ambuscade Shaman and Minotaur Skullcleaver. An alternate body was 2R for base 2/1.
>>43515632
Not them, but I think resonant should have a mana cost attached to it. Probably not a variable, so more like extort.
>>43515711CYCLES?u fuckin' know it bitch
>>43515748
The idea is the cost is included in the casting cost of the spell. You pay it up front, then get to utilize the extra effect when you cast another spell that shares a type with it.
>>43515760
This one is way better. That white one is fucking STRONG. The blue one is too, but DAT WHITE ABILITY HORY SHET.
>>43515773
Hm, this should actually probably be 3UR, not 2UR. It's a touch cheap this way. Or maybe UURR.
>>43515711
>This feels like a reprint. Or close to one. I feel like I have seen this before.
There are a couple of white creatures with a similar ETB, but they only allow you to attach Equipment you control to creatures you control. There's one red creature that steals and attaches an equipment to itself when he enters, and one attaches all equipment to itself when it enters. Other than that, it's just Magnetic Theft. I originally named it Magus of the Magnetic, but it didn't fit with existing magi (and I didn't want to make a cycle).
>>43515711
Knocked 'em all down to 3.
>>43515773
>The idea is the cost is included in the casting cost of the spell.
The issue is that there's a lot of ways to get cards in your yard without having to cast them. R&D forgets this all the time, which is how broken graveyard mechanics arise.
>>43515632
I still think recall is fine. That is also fine in a very different way. You have much more control over the power level, players get much more consistency out of the cards. This is open to a different sort of abuse in the form of self-mill so you kind of have to pick your poison there.
>>43515773
This seems way too good but again depends on what you put into the environment, it basically limits what sort of expensive instants you can afford to "print."
>>43515845
Good point. Hm. Yeah, I can do the mana cost thing. More words though... fuck. I really need to figure out a way to pare it down or something.
>>43515818
This is pretty cool, actually. Might be strong though, since that can make quite a few equipments VERY powerful.
>>43515831
This one seems fine, actually.
>>43515870
Okay. Now, I think adding a cost to the Resonant ability is a good idea, so this is where I'm at with that right now. I get the feeling this is gonna be a wordswordswords nightmare, and part of the reason I am pushing for Resonant over Recall is that Recall is going to be much more of a pain to balance, and I've actually wanted to make a "better Splice" for a long time, so the notion that I might have found one tickles me.
I really hope I can pare this down to a workable level of wording. Without the setcode it goes down to 7 lines, so that's fine, but still.
I'm so autismo that it's going to bother me that WU, UB, and GW have their symmetric effects in the trailing ally color and BR and RG have them in the leading ally color.
>>43515988
Actually... fuck. I'm basically right back at Flashback now with this, aren't I?
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFU-
>>43515989
The life payments feel really out of color in green. Less so in red because of it's association with black.
>>43516020actually you've just made a really specific version of kicker somehow probably
>>43516078
That I'd be okay with but it really does feel too much like Flashback as it is right now.
>>43515988
Maybs something like
>Resonate (When you cast an instant or sorcery, you may exile this card from your graveyard(or hand?)
>When ~ resonates, [lesser effect]
Criticism welcome.
The working flavor behind this is that Izunak is a benevolent necromancer born on Innistrad, who becomes a planeswalker and ends up on Theros (centuries before Elspeth and stuff) searching for more knowledge about life and death. As he enters the underworld, he is struck by the power and magic of Athreos. As Athreos silently fulfills his role as the bridge between the living and the dead, Izunak remains for over a century, basking in his aura and learning from the heroes passing through. When he finally leaves, he leaves as a planeswalker transformed.
>>43516096
>>43516020
ACTUALLY, the even bigger problem I am seeing right now is that, as it is, if you pitch it to FoW you get its effect for free. That's a huge issue.
BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD.
>>43516125
Nevermind I didn't read it right and that's like the same thing you have
>>43516067
Well I was running out of some kind of extra cost to use. You are kinda "giving your blood" to one of your creatures, which sounds a little greenish at least.
>>43516138
Yeah, this is frustrating me pretty hardcore right now. I might go back to Recall at this rate; at least it was closer to working. Hate it when you have an idea and you buy into it wholesale, then it turns out to not be viable.
>>43516138
Using "When ~ resonates," is good for making sure the rules-text doesn't get overly long.
>>43516160
Return a land to your hand?
>>43516020
You could always reuse flashback, or a similar mechanic like retrace.
>>43516239
One of the effects needs to be symmetric with the cost to fit into the cycle. "Return target land to its owner's hand" is a blue effect.
>>43516129
I uh, I think there might be a miswording on his +1, as it stands you can just exile creatures for free
>>43516132
If you use the "When ~ resonates" wording it'll only activate when you activate its resonate ability, instead of whenever it gets exiled. Kind of like Exploit not triggering on all sacrifices.
>>43516260
Yeah, that should probably read "You may sacrifice a creature. If you do, blah blah blah"
>>43516204
The problem isn't the wording so much as that, as another anon stated, you can self-mill, then seed the yard and get a bunch of free Resonate effects. That's a problem.
>>43516239
Yeah... I kinda feel like I might get trapped doing that. I don't want to though.
>>43516299
If you're trying to do something splice-y, why not just get rid of the graveyard stuff and have it work from the hand?
>>43516129
I kind of expected him to be a transformwalker, honestly. Disappoint. His Legend form is problematic against token decks, because you can grant all their tokens Persist when they die, then get free cards when they still cease to exist due to the SBA that happens when they hit the yard.
The +1 was already addressed. The PW mixing +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters is typically a design no-no.
>>43516129
>benevolent necromancer born on Innistrad
That doesn't sound very Innistrady. Maybe Zendikar or Dominaria, like Liliana.
>>43516308
Because I wanted a "use it again" thing going on for UR, so it played interestingly with the yard hate that will be smattered into G, B, and W. I am trying to nail down the flavor of "different wizarding factions competing with each other supervised by largely amoral staff" so the idea that mechanics play off each other at least a little would be nice. Though I suppose it's not necessary. I need a working set more than slightly more appealing fluff.
>>43516364
Do you have anything against using flashback?
>>43516400
I have a boner for creating my own mechanics, so irrationally, yes. I already have Evoke in all five colors so I didn't want to pirate another non-evergreen.
>>43516260
>>43516273
>>43516327
>>43516348
Thanks for your input. I honestly just wanted to throw him out there and see how he stood. Making him a sparkwalker would honestly be a cooler design space, and if I keep his +1 I'll fix it.
Bleh, just gonna take a break. I was all stoked to make cards tonight but this UR thing has me too frustrated to enjoy it.
>>43516444
I think he would be more interesting on a spark template, yes. I dunno what mechanic you'll use to transform him though, to fit with his fluff.
