Solutions Edition
Previous Thread: >>43332824
Reposting from the last thread to the guy who wanted to play a Little Sister, just play a Big Sister and you can do the same thing but also do actual character stuff as well.
>>43453962
>[Wild gesturing and whale noises intensifies.]
>>43454137
>[Non-sensical retort by a Lead Head Splicer talking about keeping the business open for the New Years celebration.]
>>43453962
wasn't really saying I wanted to play one, just that one could be a valuable teammate/resource
I do see your point though
>>43453962
could do a Little Sister/Big Daddy combo, Little Sister handles the talking cause she can at least partially understand her Big Daddy's moods, even if it gets interpreted through her ADAM fueled hallucinations and childish perspective, of course not all Big Daddies need an interpreter, some of the ones with slightly more intact minds(Subject Delta, some of the other surviving prototypes, and some of the last run made before production halted) are perfectly capable of communicating, even if not vocally(instead using a mix of writing, morse code, and sign language as needed, and dependent on what the Big Daddy can recollect how to do)
Some combat related rules before bed.
Starting a new run on infinite, any suggestions for a fun build?
Also, for the people that have it, is the dlc worth buying the season pass? I've already watched a playthrough of burial at seathe pick made me cringe
Did anyone else feel bad for the baby jane and rosebud splicers?
>>43458452
Man, all the splicers got the short end of the stick.
>>43458485
Yeah, those ones just got me in particular
What's a portion of the city you could imagine that wasn't shown in the games?
Some niche of the economy or industry filled, some structure(s) that would be important to the function of the city but wasn't dealt with.
You know, Savage Worlds would actually be a great fit for a bioshock system.
>>43457206
Six resistances? That's just excessive. Especially when clearly only two of those resistances are worth prioritising. Keep it simple, stupid. If you really must use this have Elemental and Physical resistances only and make it hard to improve them.
>>43459839
>Savage Worlds would actually be a great fit for a bioshock system.
Why is that? Not too familiar with Savage Worlds.
>>43460287
Very easily customisable, ranged combat and magic is handled extremely well and it's easy to see how the rules could be extended for Bioshock. Probably one of the best fits in fact.
I advise checking out the core rules to see what I mean, it's quite often used for homebrew with the foremost one I can think of a rather decent Elder Scrolls conversion.
>>43460397
Do the core rules have super powers and stuff?
>>43460408
Yes
>>43457206
>>43459839
I agree, reducing resistances is probably for the best. Physical and Melee especially could be combined, since I'm not sure what exactly is left for physical when you remove Bullets and Melee.
Personally I'd go even further and mix Bullet, Melee and Physical into one.
>>43459839
Well, there were at least five in the game. Each of the elements had a resistance to it, and there was gun resistance and melee resistance. Physical resistance wasn't really a thing in the games originally, but physical damage was separate from melee, which is the reason for the count.
>>43460456
>since I'm not sure what exactly is left for physical when you remove Bullets and Melee.
Plasmids and Thrown weapons were the idea. Having Insect Swarm and other things like it do either Bullet or Melee damage seemed silly.
Each of the elemental types should be Resistible, so I'll keep them as they are. What do folks think I should do with the rest then?
>>43462400
I don't see why physical, melee, and bullet have to be seperate. If it's really important, just give guns a small amount of resistance-piercing or something.
>>43462400
Combining Physical and Melee makes the most sense. No reason throwing a chair with Telekinesis should need different armor from someone just hitting you with it normally.
You could also possibly condense the elemental resistances down to just one, though that means having that resistance makes it very easy to block a lot of different attacks.
>>43463145
Piercing/Gun/Bullet damage had its own special resistance in games, found most notably in Leadhead Splicers, which was why I added it as it's own thing.
I do think I should probably just combine Melee and Physical into just Physical in the end, I'm still unsure if I should just roll bullets into it though. It feels thematic to have most guns do a different sort of damage from just punching a guy in the face.
>>43463707
I think you should only separate damage resistances out when it allows for meaningful decision making.
For example, having Bullets separate from other Physical attacks means you have to decide between stopping the more deadly ranged option, or the more common melee option. In this case, extra plasmids or other sources of physical damage are mostly a bonus to make Physical resistance more worthwhile. The two work as a good pair to have players choose between prioritizing.
Compare that to Fire/Cold/Shock. Those will only really come into play against certain Plasmids or Environmental hazards, which are vastly more subject to the GMs whims. Thus, you wouldnt really see players prioritize this over Bullet/Physical damage, as it will almost always be less common. This makes them more secondary.
Using this, you can set it up where Bullet and physical are the main Two resistances, with the elemental ones being more of a side thing that's easy to overlap with one of the main two. Armor that gives 2 Physical and 1 cold resistance, as an example.
Explosive resistance should just be a yes/no quality on heavier armor, which may have other benefits of its own.
>>43463894
So keeping Bullets and Physical apart from each other on the resistance scale is fine as long as enemies have proper means to overcome both, never making it a good idea to focus on just one?
>>43464174
Yeah. While there might be the occasional eny that gets stonewalled due to a lucky combination, having them separate allows for more potential counterplay.
Ideally, they'll only be able to get one of the primary and one of the elemental resistances up fairly high, leaving them more vulnerable to the rest.
>>43464277
This was the general plan, so nice to know I was on the right track.
Basic Enemies would likely be more along the lines of Fall of Rapture splicers, having both melee and ranged options in a single sitting, with a common level Plasmid or two thrown in to diversify. But their power would be pretty ground level in line with or below players own abilities.
Specialist type enemies would probably be stronger on their focus so that diverse Resistances are less reliable mitigations. An Electro Splicer should be making players wish they had Electric Skin on even with a good Physical or Bullet resistance.
>>43464439
Do you plan on making crossbows Bullet or Physical?
>>43464505
Here's one of the Bolt using weapons as an example.
>>43465884
Maybe something describing how a percent of the time, the bolts can be recovered from whatever they hit?
>>43466091
I really REALLY ruminated hard on this one. Bolt breakage chance was my favorite thing about using the Crossbow, but I couldn't really see to it fitting the PnP due to how Ammo is handled on a per fight basis instead of a per shot basis.
Sadly, I don't see it being a good idea.
>>43466319
Maybe have that be a more 'action' ruleset for keeping track of ammo to give an easy way for groups who don't like to micromanage, and then a survivalist option for those who want to be scrounging and making sure every shot counts?
>>43466405
The per battle ammo count was intended to be the scrounger system actually. Only getting a 1 or 2 bullets from fallen enemies, if even, was suppose to make fights playable, but make you consider if it's a good idea to use a firearm to begin with. You're not going to have very much ammo generally without finding a ton of cash to use an Ammo Bandito, and then it might be better to save that for buying gear, weapon upgrades or healing items instead.
That said, I will add it to the list of post alpha ideas. I can respect folks wanting to count every bullet for maximum grittyness.
>>43466319
>>43466700
I'm not exactly a very crunchy person but this system of 'per battle' ammo seems really ripe for abuse.
Like someone just spending the entire combat bullet-hosing with a tommy gun or rotary machinegun because if you only use one weapon it only deducts one point of ammo.
>>43467600
It's also a bit odd if you only end up taking one shot.
The idea of only tracking individual clips or magazines is a decent idea to keep things simple, but I'm not sure how well it will work in practice.
>>43467600
It depends on how much ammo they get in the wild. Machine Gun ammo from an Ammo Bandito is going to be roughly 1 fight's worth for $15/$12, so it's going to be fairly hard to keep enough to go apeshit with one type of ammo every fight.
But it's also an issue of character Actions/turn, weapon Fire Rate, and weapon's current shots remaining before reload is needed.
I doubt it will be as easy as it seems at a glance, but even if it is at first, that's what playtesting is for, right?
>>43468205
If you're accounting for reloading, then you're already tracking individual bullets anyway.
>>43468345
Hmmm... A fair point... Would tracking clips be a better idea do folks think? Firing any shots from a clip will detract 1 clip from your ammo supply, as will reloading?
>>43471661
That could work, but personally I think the easiest way is to just track individual rounds that you have. Yes it's annoying sometimes but anything more abstract will cause problems in my opinion. People will try to game the system, or you'll have people who go into fights with half-loaded weapons because they want to fire every last shot to get maximum worth out of it.
There's really no way to cheat or exploit if you're counting all the ammo and it also rewards players for being clever and using less ammo. Finishing a fight firing only a few shots rather than knowing you'll be equally well off firing the whole magazine.
>>43471661
Personally, I think tracking your ammo should be bullets in the clip/total bullets, with the clip only determining the amount of bullets the gun can store
It might end up a bit heavy on ammo management, but it would be more accurate
Hmm... Perhaps I should post the whole of gun play rules as they are currently so folks know what to expect going into the system. There's a lot of details that makes tracking individual shots a bit of an excessive when measured against the system imo.
>>43472809
Well, to use the revolver as an example, you'll fire 6 shots before you have to reload. That means that you're counting bullets anyway to know when to reload, but at the end of the fight it doesn't matter how many you fired, since you just use 1 box.
That leads to weird parts where you fired two dozen shots in a particularly drawn out battle but somehow only used one box, or segments where you only fired 3 bullets and mostly relied on plasmids, yet still used effectively the same number.
It's particularly noticeable for a revolver, since a revolver uses single bullets rather than a clip or anything.
I'm not usually one to argue for extra book-keeping, but the system you've laid out seems odd to me.
Thread saved.
Somehow I love this rare type of thread. Anons, Homebrew guy, you are all awesome.
>>43473104
Yeah, this.
It sounds easier on paper but it seems like it would be a needless complication in practice. We're already counting ammo so what's the point in adding an abstraction on top of it if we already have to count our shots?
>>43473104
>That leads to weird parts where you fired two dozen shots in a particularly drawn out battle but somehow only used one box
The proposed change in >>43471661 would actually track each time you reload against your box count though.
>>43473675
The intent was risk vs reward. You see here in the Tommy Gun that some weapons may never even fire off a whole clip in a fight. While some folks are concerned that counting it per box makes it easier, it's actually the opposite. You'll always be hunting down more ammo stacks because even a firing a few shots is draining to supplies.
I dunno, I felt the grit to this method to be much more of an interesting approach, but if everyone would rather count each shot as the contents of an ammo pool, I'm willing to change it.
>>43473901
Well, if you fire 2 burst from the tommygun and are counting by box, you still have 32 shots.
If you count by battle, you've just wasted 32 bullets.
I feel like that's just going to lead to frustration.
>>43473901
The Tommy gun was historically a very good gun. heavy as all get out, but the recoil was not really as bad as it was shown in the game.
>>43474074
I suppose can see how it might be a bit of an ambitious concept.
Well, I can do one of two things in the end that really work...
1) Have Ammo Count be a per rounds fired value instead, to make the abstraction of ammo work better overall, since you're now counting the rounds you're shooting before reloading instead leaving total shots fired a bit more open. Ammo stock only be reduced if you reload instead. The Tommy Gun might be 4 rounds before reload, for instance, so firing for 2 rounds in one fight would not force you to deduct ammo from your cache until you fire for 2 more rounds/choose to reload. Less book keeping, but a bit grittier in the end.
2) Count by shots and let folks manage ammo on a more realistic level, but not allow folks to reload a weapon until it's clip runs out. More book keeping, but a bit easier to manage from shot to shot.
>>43474955
Maybe have a 'cinematic' mode where you have the ammo box system where its deducted after each fight, but you ignore reloading entirely. Basically makes it so that while gathering ammo is a concern, you don't have to keep track of the individual bullets.
>>43475235
Perhaps. Reloading mid fight seems a bit of a tactical point that I'd like to keep though.
I suppose it really depends on what folks would prefer from me on this though. I can do it all in the beginning, so I want to settle on one system to use for the first wave of testing.
>>43475702
Personally, I like the idea of keeping track individually, but that's just because of how focused Bioshock was on the survivalist aspect sometimes. It's the sort of system that can make players fret and worry about every bullet they fire.
Having a separate option like >>43475235 suggested for Ammo being more plentiful could give an option for those who want larger more dynamic gunfights without having to worry about wasting ammo during a fight.
Overall, this seems like the sort of thing to set up a strawpoll for or look to other systems for ideas on how to do it.
http://strawpoll.me/5924560
Here's the poll. Thought of another way to do it that might interest folks. We'll see what everyone decides I guess.
>>43476432
I do like the dice idea, since it does inherently remind players to subtract ammo when they roll, although it's a bit meta since if you never miss, you never need to reload.
>>43478096
Well, it's on a per die rate more than a per attack rate. Most folks will roll 6 or more dice out the gate, so some misses are bound to be in there more often than not.
Plus, I kind of like it that way. It rewards accuracy by letting you finish a fight in less shots. Nothing quite beats the feeling of nailing the perfect headshot on a splicer and saving your ammo after all.
Assuming you had to choose from existing templates, would you rather play a spider, houdini, or brute?
>>43478751
I mean I'd rather play as a normal person. But if I had to choose, brute probably.
>>43478998
The brute is actually pretty funny.
In multiplayer a lot of his comments are very homophobic, to rather suspect degrees.
However if you hypnotize one in the campaign and just stand around, he'll start saying somewhat homoerotic dialogue to the point where it seems like he's trying to hit on you a bit.
Strikes me as one of those 'this will prove I'm 110% super not gay' types.
>>43479085
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecC2_gz_MoQ
>>43478751
Does anyone else think houdinis should've gotten their own model in 2?
>>43479163
I get the feeling he's trying to tell us something
>>43479524
I don't remember the houdinis in 2.
>>43480134
From the third area onwards
>>43480183
I mean I don't remember what they were like/what they looked like.
>>43480233
Standard splicer models with houdini abilities
What was Siren's Alley originally called?
>>43476432
Encounter ammo and round reloading it is! I'll get to work adjusting things, post some previews for folks in a bit.
>>43480545
No real name is known, but it was a mason's quarter to house various firms that serviced Rapture during it's construction. To this, I have to wonder if the Pink Pearl was named as such before it became the red light district. If so, that's just lewd...
>>43480911
You should probably wait at least 24 hours before deciding on anything using that poll, to take into account voters being in different time zones.
>>43481088
Good point. Alright, voting closes at 8 pm EST tonight.Just got done making a few minor adjustments too... Ah well, I'll save it to a different file for now.
For one moment, we are perfect
What's the strangest result of combining standard plasmids or tonics you can think of?
Rise
How do you feel about big daddy busters?covering an object with proximity mines and throwing it with telekinesis
>>43487425
Pretty clever.
Always a good idea to take out a life insurance policy in Rapture...
>>43487425
Spectacular in 2, not so much in 1 until you could get Prox mines in enough quantity. But even then it was only for Arcadia/Farmers Market. Electric Gel's the easier route afterwards I found.
>>43487727
Think this is a bad idea, since it removes the importance of Vita-Chambers.
>>43487849
I think it's fine. Unless there's something I'm missing, it's a one-time use revival.
>>43487849
>Vita Chamber
...Got some bad news for ya...
>>43487895
There shouldn't be an any revival.
>>43488045
I'll leave that to each individual GM to decide. The option is there should folks want it.
>>43488045
I think it would work better if it was a 1 use automatic-stabilization instead. Not enough to get you back in the fight, but enough to let you eventually recover if you would ordinarily just die.
>>43488188
It was never in the games though, and specifically goes against the setting lore.
If the DM wants to do it, whether or not it's in the rules isn't going to stop them.
>>43488193
This already makes more sense.
>>43488581
>It was never in the games though
Actually...
http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Resurrection
>>43488642
>BS2 Multiplayer
>>43488714
Hey, content is content man. Doesn't matter if the multiplayer was shit or not, it still gives options to work with.
>>43488750
Still, it's the sort of thing that works better as a way to barely keep you alive rather than fully getting you back into the fight, barring extra methods of healing.
>>43488846
Maybe. Then again, 500 Adam is pretty damn expensive for a 1 time revive. It costs less to max out a single Plasmid currently.
I'll leave it be for now just to see what it does during testing. I can always adjust later if it proves too good even at as steep a cost as it has.
>>43488846
Or like as a false death.
>Nearly get killed, plasmid fakes your death
>Recover barely conscious a little while later
So, poll's closed?
>>43491471due to AIDS
>>43491471
Yes, poll's closed. I've been gaming with bros for a bit.
Bullets wins the poll
Adjusted Ammo and Reloading rules for individual bullets.
Since there seemed to be enough interest in some of them, I might add some of the other ammo management modes later in beta, but we'll use this as the base system.
>>43496618
Yeah. You can always add more systems as options for different tones, but for now it's good to just make sure the rest of the gunplay works.
Dual pistols or dual hand crossbows?
>>43498003
Dual drills.
>>43498074
[angry whale noises]
>>43498003
Dual Hand Cannons?
>>43499551
>clip
The place where rounds are stored in a revolver is called the cylinder, just FYI.
Don't let any /k/ommandos see this.
>>43499562
Whoops, my bad. It's still early and coffee isn't kicking in yet. Fixed
>>43499611
Never crunch before coffee, that's a lesson I learned painfully.
>>43499551
Okay, definitely dual wielding those
>>43499611
>>43499551
>>43496618
Hows the progress on the Bioshock system going and how much is done of it?
>>43503894
Smoothly enough. I'd say about... 57% ready? Maybe more? There are a few little things here and there that needed refined before I could put everything back to the grind stone, but we should be good for now.
I'm not going to give a tame frame of "when it will be finished", but I'm trying hard to make sure everything looks good before I put it to paper for a full testing, so as long as I've got ideas coming and fingers typing, shouldn't bee too much longer before it's ready. Hope you don't mind sticking with me for a bit till then.
>>43504066
Honestly that sounds fine, plus if you ever need any help just ask, it really interests me
Keep it alive for a bit folks. Busy day so not too much time to sit down and work on it beyond what I did this morning. Probably won't be anything new from me till tonight.
Well, I guess to get some discussion going, what are some ideas for environments or political systems to use for their city? Are most people just planning on using Rapture, or making their own?
>>43506891
I could only see people I know playing something like this for one game, since if left to their own devices they would exclusively play Pathfinder game after game, year after year. Given the one chance, I feel it would only work if Rapture was used.
One of the most interesting ideas i had lately was a way of implamenting becoming a big daddy into a system.
Take Delta or Sigma for example or even the bouncers or rosies. Make it possible for anyone to be converted wether forcefully or wan-tingly
Also has anyone come up with stats on big daddys?
>>43509303
Well, they definitely need a lot of health and armor. They shouldn't be easy to take down, even for a group.
Rise
>>43509303
The problem is whether they retain their sentience.
I'll take one(1) qt splicer waifu please.
Rise
>>43517428
Do those exist?
>>43520425
With a mask, she can be as qt as you please.
>>43517428
Pics?
>>43522422
Someone draw one because I don't know of any.
Actually someone draw a female Brute splicer.
ACTUALLY SOMEONE DRAW A BIG MOMMY.
>>43522447
>[Feminine whale noises]
More basic rules. I think this should cover any pertinent status ailments.
>splicer becomes interested in (player character) for whatever reason
>she tries to be cute and flirt, but her appearance is still off-putting
What do?
>>43526000
Dick so hard, whoever pulled me out would be crowned King of Rapture.
>>43526112
>rapture
>king
>>43526000
Work with her assuming she isn't hostile. Help her get the ADAM she needs, since I'd avoid splicing.
At the most basic level she's a potential willing, and capable ally. At the best level she could be a future waifu.
>>43527930
>try to perfect tennenbaum's cure
>get qt former splicer
>>43530156
As long as she gets ADAM, does she need a cure?
>>43530195
Well, assuming it has a similar effect to the little sisters, it'd repair some of the cell damage and improve her overall mental health
>>43530855
I was going off people pre-civil war, where with enough ADAM they appear to be completely normal, functioning people.
Can't say for sure, but I believe the lore supports that with enough ADAM they'd return to normal eventually.
Rise!
Cross-species splicing.
Shark man/woman or any other fish or aquatic life for that matter.
Hmm... you know, for all their toughness you never really see a Big Daddy do anything besides their appointed role. Subject Delta is the obvious exception, but what I'm thinking is that what if you used the methods of making them but reconfigured into making ones more suited for warfare?
Imagine if you will a more upright model Big Daddy, covered in thick, overlapping steel armor mounted over the diving suit. Armed with an M2 Browning or something, and just sort of stomping forward in relentless fury
>>43536731
The Rumbler is pretty combat oriented.
As for outside of their role, you see them wandering about fixing the city up.
As for other roles, Big Daddy private security/bodyguards? Big Daddy looting services, sending them into flooded or sunken parts of the city to collect valuables or whatever, even bodies for proper return and burial.
>>43536834
Well yeah, but I was thinking more of a war-oriented model.
They would make for some pretty freaking scary private security, yeah. Doesn't need to eat, drink or sleep. Always vigilant, always ready.
