Remember, back in the 80's, when D&D actually taught you how to summon demons so you could use magic in real life?
When did rpgs become so casual?
>>44561432
>shooting yourself when it's not your turn
How casual can you get.
>>44561432
Started with GURPS.
D&D was clear cut man. Draw the sigils, make a pact with an ancient being, and BAM! mind control and fireballs at your finger tips. True it drove some people to commit suicide because they couldn't handle being amazing (its not for everybody), but the thrill was amazing.
Then GURPS came along and it disrupted the balance needed for demonic rites and rituals.
I still have fond memories of sucking the teat of a decapitated she-goat to summon a succubus so I could learn how to cast Light in exchange for her drinking a load of my jizz.
Back in the 80's, being able to summon up light on anything was a pussy magnet, man. True, I cast it on my dick more than once and fucked an epileptic chick in total darkness to get her to have a seizure on dick, but just the utility of being able to have a light source no matter what was super handy back in the pre-cell phone days when flashlights were complete pieces of shit or the size of a medium dog.
>>44561432
Fantasy in general became casual when Warcraft got big and Lord of the Rings made it popular.
If you mean when did RPGs stop being a favored target for scaremongers like Jack Chick, that's a lot more closely related to that era's religious right being ridiculously embarrassed by scandals. Jim Bakker's affair, Jimmy Swaggart's soliciting and Oral Roberts' shameless money grab set the Religious Right back so far, they weren't even politically significant within the Republican party for a couple of decades. Besides, the next trendy thing to be scared of was environmental concerns, along with new-age hippie bullshit. The American public always has to have something to be scared of.
>>44561432
when we stopped the blood sacrifices
>>44561432
When we stopped having Thai cuisine.
>>44561507
I just became a grognard.
>>44561432
Finally just noticed the guy with the wolf scalp has a shirt that reads as "LYCANTROPHE the rapist"
>>44561432
When Thai cuisine became less popular and casuals brought in ramen and Japanese food.
>>44561432
DH still has rules for real demon pacts. Fuck satan, enbrace slaanesh.
>>44562114
>>44562767
Fuck you thai has been adopted by my group as the go to take out
>>44562114
>>44562767
>this
>>44561432
Was this actually a thing in the Americas? The more I read up on it the more I think I'm missing the punch line to a big joke.
If it were like Kazakhstan or Zimbabwe or some such place I could understand it but the US put a man on the moon.
>>44562901
It was a very limited hysteria by a few soccer moms because some kid offed himself, and then hollywood made a movie about it.
Never amounted to anything really.
>>44562901
True, but America also has large areas filled with superstitious morons who accept whatever they are told as long as the person saying it invokes religion and wears a suit while doing so.
This also explains American politics.
>1970's
D&D is EVIL, give me your money!
>1980's
Metal music is EVIL, give me your money!
>1990's
Video Games are EVIL, give me your money!
>2000's
>I honestly don't remember what the moral panic of this decade was. Muslims?
>2010
Video Games with attractive women are EVIL, give me your money!
>>44562976
>2000's
>I honestly don't remember what the moral panic of this decade was. Muslims?
Video games with guns.
>>44563047
I think we've stopped listening.
>>44563047
nope, it was the internet. the internet is evil
>>44562976
Don't forget
>1950's
Comics are EVIL and CORRUPTING the YOUTH, Give me your money!
>>44563095
nope, that came towards the end of the decade. when high-speed internet, so readily available porn came to be very popular.
>>44563095
Remember when we exploded vans? That were the good times
>>44563112
>>44563095
>>44563047
All true.
There will always be some Moral Police to try and curb whatever they don't understand and enjoy. More realistically, people will only censor such things if there's profit to be made from taxing them or whatnot.
With that in mind, do you think gaming has got more liberal with it's wider audience, or shrunk due to current political climates?
I think back to the games and books of the 90's which were more edgy than a bladed fedora. A lot of stuff back then went out of it's way to be as offensive as possible, but it was still entertaining.
Nowadays, we've got a much broader medium as well as means to play with others, but in doing so there's a much bigger and noisier audience of screaming wrongbadfuns to try and shout you down.
>>44562901
Keep in mind Harry Potter books are also accused of Satanism and is considered forbidden reading by US evangelicals.
D&D isn't singled out.
>>44563161
The 90s were deliciously edgy in every media. If you see someone complaining about edgy, be sure it is a millenial disregarding it as an old silly thing.
>>44563161
Isn't it both.
Theres more casual gaming with the rise of board game cafe and bars.
But there's still hardcore spikey niche magical realm shit with an audience.
>>44562742
Nah, I'm pretty sure it reads "Lycanthrope the Rapper".
>>44563161
I'm thinking there will be a huge backlash against "bandwrongfun" types, and we'll see a another decade of offensiveness for it's own sake pretty soon.
>>44563161
The liberalization of gaming is due in part due to the liberalization of counter culture. In the 90s the hip and accepted counter culture pushed by the media was dark and edgy, just like how in the 70s it was hippies. The 80s was popped collar punk rock and commercialism. 00s was LEL so fanny random wacky shit and anime. 2010s brought us the tumblerina, social awareness, etc. It's all just the hip, establishment way to be anti establishment. Children of every generation find ways to be ineffectively rebellious because they're upset and confused.
>>44562943
>Hollywood made a movie about it
I demand source in the name of Bad Movie Night.
>>44563095
>Implying its not
>>44563311
Not that anon but the movie was Mazes and Monsters. It's p bad but it does have young Tom Hanks.
>>44561590
Literally all of my D&D group is some variant of right-wing Christian. Granted, we're mostly libertarian-leaning, but I've yet to encounter the "D&D is Satanist" meme unironically despite hanging out with Southern Baptists in rural North Carolina.
>>44563311
"Mazes and Monsters" is a far-out game.
>>44563371
Thats because it died out in the 90's when soccer moms switched over to rap music and metal as the villain dujour. Before that it was Rock and Roll and hippies
>>44563396
Wow, the past must look really strange to millennials.
Rock n Roll : 50s
Hippies: 60s
Metal: 70s
Rap: 80s
And there's never just one villain.
>>44563357
>>44563384
Thanks anons.
>>44563295
Kids have every right to be confused and upset. Life is incredibly shitty, pointless and confusing after all. In fact, to be mad about it is pretty much the only sane reaction one can have.
>>44563371
That's because the "right-wing Christians are trying to censor everyone because they're so ignorant" is itself a caricature perpetuated by left-wingers, and as ignorant in its own way as thinking D&D is Satanic.
Everyone needs their bogeyman to feel better about themselves.
>>44563424
>Rap
>80s
As far as I'm aware rap reached its maximum mainstream popularity in the late 90s, first half of 00s
>>44563396
To be entirely fair, both rap music and hippies are enemies of civilized society - or, more specifically, the cultures that promote and embrace them are. Hippies in particular are the worst. They go on and on about how they love nature, but nobody leaves more trash laying around in the wilderness than hippies do. Even rednecks with the piles of beer bottles can't hold a candle to them.
>>44563454
This is true, though a remarkably small amount of youth who get angry about culture really have the drive to carry that through to adulthood and try changing things, it would seem, since mainstream culture remains pretty fixed in spite of countless counterculture movements rising and falling.
I guess the stakes of trying to change things is too high once you're not in college and you need a job to survive, since being counterculture is counterproductive to that.
I just wanted to post this, because its sort of like ops pic, before this entire thread gets into /pol/.
>>44563466
Yep, living in Britain its incredibly weird to see so many people over hear against stereotyping people saying the entire south are backwards hillbillies against everything.
Many people don't do their research or think critically.
>>44563371
>Literally all of my D&D group is some variant of right-wing Christian.
Pffg, Gygax himself was a devout christian.
Which made it really awkward and weird for him when people were accusing him of promoting satanism.
>>44563424
>Wow, the past must look really strange to millennials.
Not really.
Those genres had some really "untraditional" habits in their prime, if you ask me.
Especially the hippies.
>>44563466
Oh, I know it's a caricature, it's just that I keep hearing stories to this day of people with religious friends who think D&D is evil. Yet, I live in rural North Carolina, where everyone is either Methodist or Southern Baptist, and I have -never- encountered this.
Are you... are you telling me that some people just go on the Internet and tell lies?
>>44563371
I'll never understand how Evangelicals have managed to incorporate libertarianism without their heads exploding.
Ayn Rand was an atheist! The Church is collectivist!
>>44563466
Raised in a Presbyterian family in MD here. Family genuinely thought mtg and d-d were cultish, but weren't super hardcore about it. When I simply explained to them it wasn't, they just said 'eh, ok'. But this is because I had a healthy and mutually respectful relationship with my parents.
>>44563577
Libertarianism is in relation to the Government, not the church.
>>44563577
The Reps of the time HATTEEDDD Rand, but she sort of got turned into a later date saint by necessity. The hardcore libertarianism is more of a neocon /pol/ thing though. The problem is that's who dominates the media, because they're.more sensational
>>44563555
i've seen some people like this.
But they are usually middle aged people that have never seen stuff actual D&D/Harry Potter/whatever, just repeat what some amateur preacher or someone wrote on the internet, itself stolen copied some other conspiracy theorist.
>>44563577
That's just because demagogues incorporate whatever works for their period in office. Many have been getting quite old, and their imagery does no longer hold up. But instead of realizing the fallacy of their judgment, people just turn to the next demagogue.
>>44563577
Ayn Rand was not a Libertarian, she was an Objectivist, which is to Libertarians what ISIS is to the guy who fills your slurpee at 7-11.
And the chief reason is that we have separation of church and state, thus a church is an opt-in collective, whereas you cannot opt out of the government fucking you in the ass.
>>44563577
Anon, most libertarians hate Ayn Rand.
A church is a voluntary organization apart from the state, and part of our libertarianism comes from the fact that we'd rather keep it that way. Church and state being one is bad for everyone, including the church.
WE /pol/ NAO!
>>44563659
>we have separation of church and state
Just you wait...
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_SCALIA_RELIGION_SPEECH?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-01-02-15-30-00
>>44563424
No, the 90s was Rap (and also videogames). The 80s was imaginary Satanists and Communism.
>>44563706
>1982
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Message_%28Grandmaster_Flash_and_the_Furious_Five_album%29
>1993
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege
>>44563577
french revolution had an anti-religious left-right vs a conservative religious right wing. That translated to most modern democracies.
America has a lot of additional legacies.
a) enforced two party system makes policies drift farther towards more far-left or far-right;
b) american protestants and founding fathers were totally against a state religion, which eventually morphed into "keep the gov away from everything i do"
And it's not even simple atheism. LeVay(guy that founded modern satanism) considered his philosophy to be applied objectivism. The notorious fedora star trek also had a big influence from Rand in it's worldview.
>>44563631
note to self: 4chan's small textbox isn't the greatest tool for editing when you keep changing your mind over how you want your reply to be worded.
>>44563706
In the 90s, people were mostly on about pokemon and harry potter being satan. My grandmother seriously believed that Harry Potter was satanic, despite both myself and my nerd girl cousin actively attempting to show her that it wasn't anything more than a dumb story for dumb kids. She also thought that Reefer Madness was a serious documentary.
>>44562901
>If it were like Kazakhstan or Zimbabwe or some such place I could understand it but the US put a man on the moon.
And today between 6-20% of Americans think that was faked.
>>44562976
Remember the "Playstation Porno" scare?
>Sony is marketing a device to YOUR CHILDREN that will allow them to watch HARD-CORE PORNOGRAPHY at any time of day or night!I love how the media always uses the descriptor "hard-core" when talking abot porn.
>>44563555
Deep South East Georgia here.
Plenty of folks have accused me and my friends of being devil worshipers and said we were going to hell for playing MtG and D&D.
Amazingly enough, the biggest defender of our hobby was one of the groups mother who lost her shit on a group of shit talkers at a church function.
>My son and his friends sit on our back porch and flip a few cards over or roll some dice while laughing and joking with each other then go home without bothering anyone. YOUR son is here every Sunday stoned to the gills and has five different babies in five different women right now. I think I will let my boy continue what he is doing.
To be fair, she is starting to hate her church more and more though because it is nothing but gossip these days from what I understand.
I don't go to church personally, but I did manage to talk a preacher into giving a month long sermon about donning spiritual armor and converting his church's inside into a quasi-castle dungeon interior during said month. He liked the visual of it. We used it for good atmosphere during D&D sessions.
>>44563747
To be honest I'm really not sure what your point is. There was no moral panic against Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five if that's what you're implying, and IIRC the Waco Siege wasn't just a matter of blind Satanic Panic.
>>44563768
lol yeah I remember that. Good times.
>>44563690
>WE /pol/ NAO!
The discourse seems amicable so far, really. The only times political talk on /tg/ turns to /pol/ is when people intentionally start stirring the pot, in my experience. People ranting about Jews and liberals and niggers isn't the default starting position.
>>44563690
> Scalia antics
Sweet lord, how I hate that man.
>>44563815
Interesting. I'd imagine that it's less that they think it's actually evil and more that they were desperate to make someone else "worse" to draw everyone's attention away from their own problems.
...Huh. I wonder if that's the big source of EBIL D&D PLAYERS nonsense? I know more than a few churches (especially well-established ones) tend to have issues with gossip and generally overlooking blatant hypocrisy.
It is kind of funny, of all possible hobbies /tg/ ones seem to be the most objectively harmless. But they're "weird," so I guess that makes them a target.
>>44563895
Well here in Spain we had a little rol scare due to some folks killing a trucker and saying it was for the game. Doesn't help Vampire the Masquerade was the main game here.
>>44563838
>People ranting about Jews and liberals and niggers isn't the default starting position.
it is on 4chan, and it should remain that way.
>>44563949
Agreed, but so far i haven't seen outside of media comment sections people really afraid about the matter.
>>44563949
I could actually see how some of the WoD games could upset people, given the more overtly evil themes, but they're pretty niche in the U.S. What do you mean by "rol," though?
Also, you're reminding me that I need to visit Spain someday to express my appreciation for their removal of kebab.
>>44563895
Most of the Evangelicals protesting things like D&D and Harry Potter know that they don't contain actual magic. However, they DO believe in actual magic, and that it's all Satanic and sinful.
Which is why thou shalt not fuck around with fake magic, because this shit be serious.
>>44564022
Rol is Role in spanish, an abbreviation for Role Playing Games or Roleplay in general.
By the way, don't go to Granada unless you want to meet people that want to ban the celebration of the end of the Reconquista
>>44564077
The problem is that D&D/Harry Potter magic is not even remotely comparable to magic prohibited by the Bible. "Fantasy" magic is innate abilities or manipulating the physical world through not!science, Bible magic is using demons to manipulate the world.
>>44563894
scalia is easy to understand at the end of the day, he's an autist who worships the constitution as written. To him, it's his bible. Because the constitution invokes God, in his mind, it therefore has a place for God
>>44564197
But the entire point of the Constitution is to establish rules for governance, is it not? If you change the meaning to suit the times, you've completely deprived the Constitution of any and all meaning.
If you want to change it, you amend it. The process is in there for a reason.
>>44564278
Legitimate, but there's a difference between providing meaning and worshiping it as an infallible and unmoving document penned by God and the founding Saints
Scalia doesn't care about context, morality, or spirit of the law. He cares about Letter.
>>44564278
No piece of paper will protect you from tyranny.
England is currently violating the first principle of the Magna Carta, and they never used to shut up about that rag.
>>44564278
One amendment at a time and eventually the resulting document will bear little resemblance to what it was.
Just like the Magna Carta.
The hope is that installs a culture where the spirit of the document is maintained.
>>44564310
Yeah, you have to factor in the spirit of the law as well, but that involves going back to the original authors.
Just to give an example. "Regulate interstate commerce" as it was written in Ye Olden Days, meant to keep commerce regular among the several States. It prohibited states from raising tariffs against each other and shenanigans like that, basically establishing that free trade among the states was the rule of the day.
However, its meaning has been twisted to mean "regulate" in the sense of "make rules about," and that's been taken to insane extremes such as arguing that ANYTHING can be regulated if it affects interstate commerce. Such as the amount of wheat a farmer grows on his own land for his own use.
Basically what I'm saying is that you kind of have to start with "What did the Founders mean?" to get any real use out of the Constitution, otherwise it's a dead document that means whatever the government wants it to mean.
>>44564136
>Bible magic is using demons to manipulate the world
So is fantasy magic, the demons just are just better at hiding their presence, according to fundies.
>>44564197
>Because the constitution invokes God, in his mind, it therefore has a place for God
Where do you think the Constitution invokes God? I think you are thinking of the Declaration of Independence.
>>44564310
Scalia cares about the Republican Party platform. He's a judicial activist whenever it suits his politics.
>>44564516
Same difference.
>>44564578
No, the Declaration of Independence has no legal authority. There's a *reason* why God is never mentioned in the Constitution.
>>44564658
I find it ironic the right holds up the FF's as their icons when they were, for their time, fedora tipping liberal humanists.
Jefferson literally wrote his own version of the bible. It was more like a magazine, and had all the magic and shit cut out of it.
>>44562901
>Kazakhstan
I know a girl whose family emigrated from Kazakhstan several decades ago.
She is a math student and she seems to take her studies very seriously.
> crosses her notes and crib sheets
> prayers and complicated rituals before every exam
> frequent use of holy water
I've seen her sprinkle her laptop's skreen with holy water and pray for some C++ code.
I'd like to play Dark Heresy with her but she thinks that roleplaying games are incredibly stupid and evil.
>>44564707
>when they were, for their time, fedora tipping liberal humanists
...Not the majority of them, not. Jefferson was rather odd in that regard, and I don't think Thomas Paine counts as a Founding Father.
>>44564893
what was that I can't hear you over all these French Whores i'm fucking with Ben Franklin
>>44564965
>Ben Franklin
Okay, definitely granted. Forgot about him.
Though I have to give credit where credit is due, ol' Ben seems like he was a pretty cool guy.
>>44564882
Like, she prays for code to litetally appear on her machine in times of need? ...Does that work...?
>>44565134
She makes a thing and then prays for it to work.
>Does that work...?
Kinda? It doesn't really work but it surely catches attention of people who can help her and they usually do help her.
>>44564882
Have you told her she is already acting as an IC techpriest?
>>44563895
I found out that a guy I know from university is into tabletop when he started telling me about a Star Wars tabletop game he's a part of. When I mentioned that he should come play D&D some time he freaked out and said that because of his Christian beliefs he completely refuses to play any tabletop system involving magic or made up gods.
Not sure how he justifies the whole Force powers thing to himself, but I wasn't about to point it out and spoil his day.
>>44565413
No, it's a wonderful thing and I don't want to ruin it.
Admech is one of my favourite things about WH40k and I secretly enjoy her behaviour.She isn't even the only girl I know who acts like a techpriest irl..
Life is good.
>>44562901
in Denmark in 2005, kids with religious parents were basically forbidden from being friends with me because I played d&d. When we made a school club for tabletop gaming, there were concerns that we would hurt and/or kill each other. We had to prove to the principle that we didn't bring real axes and swords onto school grounds when we were playing.
>>44564471
>Basically what I'm saying is that you kind of have to start with "What did the author mean?" to get any real use out of the text, otherwise it's a dead document that means whatever the loonies wants it to mean.
Fixed it to apply to everything since the dawn of writing.
Bump.
>>44566291
In Denmark in 2005 we had Roleplaying, LARP and TT wargaming at the after-school club, we ended up having to split two of the evenings because there were so many participant we didn't have the room.
Club was run by several guys from a highly devout evangelist family, the sort that' usually spend Saturday night shaming people going to town, heck their free-church was right across the road.
>>44565254
>with holy water and pray for some C++ code.
>Kinda? It doesn't really work but it surely catches attention of people who can help her and they usually do help her.
The Omnissiah is pleased.
>>44561432
I used the bondage spell on my fath... waaaait a minute.
>>44563521
I can attest to the liberal blinders. I grew up believing the army was bad, and conservatives were all a bunch of backwards morons, on about hating gays and watching nascar.
Then my husband turned me around, I still don't like nascar or football, but I can appreciate them, and I don't look down on their fans any more.
It makes my skin crawl song people so judgemental and wrapped up in their own mores well into their 40-50s and beyond.
>>44563799
in fairness i dont watch softcore, its boring.
>>44564321
>Magna Carta
I. FIRST, We have granted to God, and by this our present Charter have confirmed, for Us and our Heirs for ever, that the Church of England shall be free, and shall have all her whole Rights and Liberties inviolable. We have granted also, and given to all the Freemen of our Realm, for Us and our Heirs for ever, these Liberties under-written, to have and to hold to them and their Heirs, of Us and our Heirs for ever.
yeah no that isnt defending the people thats propping up an institiution, booooo
>>44561432
>Thai cuisine
Every time.
>>44561432
>Evil books about satanism, witchcraft, werewolves and
>Thai cuisine
>>44564471
>Such as the amount of wheat a farmer grows on his own land for his own use
Wickard v. Filburn, 317 U.S. 111 (1942)
fellow lawfag detected?
>>44563577
>The Church
I assume you are referring to the Roman Catholic Church? If so, i understand where this is going. Trust me, i have seen the Evangelical propaganda firsthand
>>44561507
This is gold
