Assuming he's not faking it, what's the friendliest a demon could be towards mortals, while still being Chaotic Evil?
And please let's not bring out the usual redeemed succubus discussion
>>44518170
Rape-bros.
Demons be like "Yo' dawg, I'll fuck her in the ass while you beat up the pussy!"
That's about as good as it gets with demons.
>>44518170
Depends on who's portraying the demon, what demon, and how. People interpret both regular alignments and outsiders differently. Too broad a spectrum to answer that question simply.
>>44518170
Are you saying you want to play a chaotic evil demon without pissing the other players off?
Because then you shouldn't play chaotic evil.
I think the answer depends on the power of the demon, but overall: being a good friend towards particular humans, stating loudly that the humans are no exceptions to the demon and he could hurt hem any minute.
But, still being a good friend, helping them, protecting them, give them the feeling that they actually are your friendbefore turning and fucking them up when they least expect it
>>44518170
Depends
On
The
Setting
>>44518226
>>44518212
I don't want to play it (forever DM here), it's merely for the sake of a mental exercise, mostly because DnD/PF demons are always portrayed with a "static" mindset, despite being chaotic
For the sake of discussion let's assume the demon in question is one of the high-tier ones
Being nice to anyone if it serves the end of greater evil.
Alignment is more of a general goal and outlook decider rather than a mandate to act like a cunt all the fucking time.
I think they could be battle-buddies with a mortal. Not exactly "companion" or "friend", since that might suggest them being equals, but I think a demon and a mortal could work towards a similar goal as long as neither of them pissed the other off and used their strengths for the other's benefit. A wizard strong enough to buff the demon but not bind it to the wizard's will, for instance. Maybe not trusted unconditionally, but as long as it is benefitial for them to cooperate, or at the least the mortal is a tool the demon can use with little chance of it backfiring, then it should be alright.
>>44518170
As a GM, my standard course of action when anything involves demons, it is a matter of who the demon is, and what the players have done for it.
Some demons fall into the category of "irredeemable asshole" and will backstab you at the first opportunity they get.
Others are more malleable. While they are undoubtedly evil, they aren't just trying to make everyone hate them for no reason. Some might fake a friendship of sorts, while others might genuinely become friends with the pcs. They will never turn alignment, but then, they are unlikely to become friends in the first place if the pcs can't accept that they are dealing with an evil entity.
My players have made several long standing and recurring friends like that.
>>44518170
>what's the friendliest a demon could be towards mortals, while still being Chaotic Evil?
Sexual Friendliness
>>44518170
Honestly, if "chaotic evil" has any chance of existing in a world of mortals in any statistically significant numbers, rather than the occasional arrogant wizard who genuinely thinks he's badass enough to rule in hell, or the spurned lover genuinely willing to suffer eternal torment for revenge, demons NEEEED to be FUCKING CHARISMATIC, and downright personable in a way that's genuinely tempting.
Bear in mind that, if we're talking about the standard D&D great-wheel setting, then it's not like our world. You don't have to rely on context and judgement (or faith that your code/book really is right) in order to determine what's right and what's wrong. It is as measurable as temperature, and the same goes for the immortality of the soul and the afterlife as a reward/punishment system aligned with this 5th physical force of morality. Evil, in such a world, chaotic or no, is a fundamentally irrational choice, reserved exclusively for the mentally ill or thoroughly deceived/manipulated. Demons HAVE to be extremely convincint, even if they're trying to get people to rebel in a evil way instead of manipulate the rules in an evil way.
If anything, direct demonic intervention is the only explanation for evil remaining alive and well in the mortal soul in such a world.
>>44518298
>DOTS
Is this the new acronym we pushing?
Why can't the demon be friendly to a specific individual, but stay super evil to everyone else?
Like the killer in Scary Movie chilling with Shorty and the other black guys.
>>44518438
>Why can't the demon be friendly to a specific individual, but stay super evil to everyone else?
Look here >>44518298
>>44518170
Pretty damn friendly, most are so long as the contract stands
>>44518170
Appreciated easy prey.
>>44518170
Why shouldn't they be friendly when it suits their purposes? They're Chaotic Evil, not Chaotic Stupid. Surely they should be able to judge that sometimes they just enjoy the presence of a mortal and keep him around because they like him. There's no real reason to kill him as it does not benefit them, and his existence brings them some degree of pleasure and probably utility. They won't ever inconvenience themselves for his benefit, but as long as the going is good I don't see why Demons shouldn't be able to derive amusement from the presence of certain mortals who have proven themselves awesome in some way, and maybe toss him a bone every now and then.
>>44518170
I remember a story where a pit fiend actually doted on his (good aligned) tifling granddaughter. He was proud enough of her accomplishments that he was willing to overlook the company she kept. If i'm' remembering it right, that she refused to take anything from him, or trust him actually made him even more proud of her.
Well, there was this book set in forgotten realms, from the war of the spider queen, where a Glabrezu started drooling over a drow priestess, because said priestess implied he might score some later for his cooperation.
Does it count as friendly?
When the party left the wizard made him bite off his own legs i think, and there was no sex in the next encounter either.
>>44518372
Thing is, most D&D commoners (hell, a lot of wizards and scholars even) don't know that much about the afterlife. We have books full of factual info, but in-setting the fiends generally try to keep a lid on things and don't tolerate people popping into their planes for a look if they can help it.
The average bandit might have heard bad shit will happen when he dies, but doesn't care about it any more than he cares about all the mundane bad shit that usually happens to bandits. A scholar digging for info on hell may find out they turn mortal souls into devils, but never learn the process completely wipes away the original identity. A lot of the evil-by-default races don't have to worry about the standard evil afterlives at all, because they go to their god's realms instead.
>>44518170
He likes you. Just you. Want some cookies? You bet your ass he'll bring you some fresh from the oven. You can also bet your ass he stole them from a grandmothers oven on a different plane.
He sees some drunk asshat take a swing at you. You bet your ass he'll take him down to protect your soft pasty flesh. You can also bet your ass he'll take out the drunks family and dog as well.
>>44519384
>A lot of the evil-by-default races don't have to worry about the standard evil afterlives at all, because they go to their god's realms instead.
most of what you said is debatable but this ones a very good point.
i also like that you said evil by default seems like the best way to describe such races that keeps out the waagh good orcs/drow/kobolds/whatever dont exist crowd i think i will start using that one.
>>44518170
For me the best demon has always been Pazuzu.
He is everything a Paladin could wish for in a friend.
Multiple impossible situations have been overcome with his help and all that is subtle and slow corruption usually leads to is an easy excuse to go black blackguard into death knight.
I obviously don't role playing in such trivial terms, instead of making an interesting story out of it with plenty of pathos and drama for the GM and other PCs to enjoy.
I even had a party compliment the clever way I back stabbed them. But even better option is to bring them to the dark side along with you.
>>44518170
Mortals are hilarious!
They believe in things like truth, justice, and honour, and claim that the universe has more meaning than just an impermanent blip in the greater formless nothingness!
So it's worth hanging around, to see all the pattern they ascribe things. "Oh, it's wrong to hurt children, but not wrong to kill bandits" when there's only a few decades difference!
There's nothing like a paladin for a laugh, so you can always promise not to kill anyone they don't want you to, just so you can see a few funny things.
>>44518170
As friendly as they want too be, chaotic evil doesn't mean impossible to get along with.
There would be a point at which anyone who is friends with a demon would stop being so if they were too friendly though. People need space, especially assholes.
My favorite is something like demonic weapons who just want to be murder bros.
>>44521325
>too friendly
But that's just a case of not being too clingy, something that would turn off even good aligned people.
What people need to remember, even with D&Ds contrived alignment system, is that they all cover a broad, and most importantly, ideological point of view.
This means chaotic evil isn't a rampant murderer who cannot interact with people without stabbing them with whatever sharp object they have at hand. Likewise, even lawful good isn't all unicorns and fluffy bunnies. There are shades to everything, and especially in the alignment system. I remember reading about a well liked necromancer who ruled a semi-large city. Guy is an irredeemable asshole, but despite being a complete psychopath with no remorse for destroying the soul of beloved people of his city, being lawful evil means he still knows how to rule well, and have established a system that just works. And whenever another faction attacks his city, he tells his citizens to hide in their homes, while he raises every single dead body in the city, and then uses the former citizens and dead attackers to fuck up the invaders. This makes him extremely well liked, because even if they hate and despise him as a person, they are unlikely to find a better ruler, and if the players seek to remove him by force, the townspeople WILL come to his aid, and they will die to protect him.
>>44518170
A really smart demon could treat a human with nothing but warmth and kindness if he knew that it would indirectly lead to disaster for others. For example, they could make sure that a pretender to a throne is raised very well and knows how to win supporters, to make sure that the civil war he starts is as long and bloody as possible. And if he wins, he'll avow that demons are completely misunderstood and can actually be very nice, lifting any ban on summoning demons or opening portals to the Abyss. Thus an act of kindness can be much worse than any act of cruelty.
>>44518667
>Why shouldn't they be friendly when it suits their purposes? They're Chaotic Evil, not Chaotic Stupid
I mean, the few who have Int scores of 20 and above have to account for something. They just have really really poor impulse control
>>44518372
A lot of interpretations of the Great Wheel do not treat the Lower planes as places of punishment in the same way as the Christian hell. An evil soul will not be free from the threat of suffering in the lower planes, but the upper planes would be even more painful for him because in the upper planes there is no chance for advancement or victory over your peers. The afterlife in Celestia is an eternity of numb servitude where selfishness and ambition are forbidden.
The Shadow demon I met during an adventure gave me its true name and offered to work for me via planar binding in exchange for letting it possess the cleric bbeg whenever it visited the material plane.
Suffice to say, it gave as good as it got and was quite fair. It gave good advice, introduced me to more demon contacts to bind, took unnecessary risks for me and even helped stabilize me when it could have couped me. The defining moment of our partnership was when it pulled me out of a near tpk and plane shifted the two of us back to its native plane where it had no reason not to turn on me as soon as we got there and helped me settle in while I prepared to return back to the material plane.
Obviously it would occasionally ask for a boon which I would agree to do(gotta get dat extra exp) and the fact that I wasn't sent on self destructive suicide missions was good enough for me.
I suppose it was partially because I sank a feat into making it my cohort but I still like to look back on the experience and think it went better than expected.
>>44518373
DID YOU SAY DOTS? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yKqKg6DfTY
>>44518170
Neither being either evil or chaotic preclude one from having friends.
An evil person can still care about others. They just always care a lot more about themselves. They can still do nice things for other people as long as it doesn't really cost them anything. When the chips are down they''ll look out for number one, absolutely, but that doesn't mean they can't have emotional attachments, people they hold dear.
>>44518372
Most CE people think they're either never going to die in the first place, or they're the one-in-a-million exception who's going to jump straight to mid-tier demon (or if they're really full of themselves, high-tier demon).
I imagine racial gods like Gruumsh and whichever demon lord rules the gnolls make exceptions for their patroned race to ensure that orcs or gnolls or whathaveyou don't all end up suffering eternally in the Abyss for loyally following their primary god's tenets.
>>44522998
They do. Gruumsh isn't even in the Abyss, he lives in Acheron and lets his followers enjoy the eternal battles there.
>>44522998
But it's the same way in the upper planes. Good people think that the good they do matters, but they end up as eternally groveling petitioners, in a way even lower than lemures or manes. Maybe they aren't actively feeling pain, but they have a much smaller range of things they're allowed to do and feel.
>>44522923
>When the chips are down they''ll look out for number one
Not necessarily, actually. It is for the same reason that certified sociopaths can sometimes have "fooled" everyone around them because they actually, honestly cared a whole lot more for someone other than themselves.
And depending on who you ask, we are all technically only into any kind of social bonds because of the benefits we gain from it. Even if it is as basic as "someone to talk to" or "someone who admires me a whole lot". It is the same reason some sociopaths values a spouse or child a lot higher than themselves.
It is not common, granted, but it does happen, and there is no reason a chaotic evil individual can't go as far as sacrificing himself for someone else.
Chaotic evil is not homicidal maniac. Hell, you don't even need to want people to die. It is a point of view, not a compulsion to cause as much death and destruction as possible.
They're the asshole you like, rather than the asshole you don't. They're the thing you know is bad for you, but you do it anyways because it's too interesting or enticing to pass up. They're also only your friend or friendly to you as long as it amuses them and they're getting something they want out of it.
