The party in my Pathfinder campaign is fighting a Gargantuan size spider with Kraken stats. I planned for it to be a chase but the party decided to fight it instead. They're level 6. Should I continue and just give them the TPK, or should I railroad them into starting a chase sequence to escape?
>>34353408
if they want to fuck up, let them fuck up
>>34353408
Have them cut off a part of it, then it regrows. Describe in detail that it is healing everything they put on it. They can see that it is trying to put itself between them and the exit.
Rule number one of being a DM (though it also applies to any kind of GM, it's particularly relevant in D&D because it's both a high action game and the typical entry game for video gamers - a kind of people who love resorting to violence) is that you shouldn't show someone or something to your players unless you're ok with them trying to kill or take (in all meanings of the word) it/them.
That said, it's hard to advise since we don't know what kind of playstyle you want, what kind of playstyle they want, how experienced they are, how well you got across the danger of this monster, narrative reasons, etc. There's a lot to consider here. I will consider expanding on this reply as I eat my dinner. It's a delicious cheeseburger soaked in ghost pepper chili oil. I have mashed potatoes and green beans as a side.
Pic unrelated.
>>34353422
The problem with that is that they seem to want to delay the inevitable for as long as possible. They know the spider's AC is at least 32 and the only way they can hit it is with crits and touch attacks and the only way it can miss is with a Nat 1 but they insist on staying and fighting. Also the oracle cursed the spider so it has a 50% chance to not do anything but even with that they want to stay and try to kill it rather than run.
>>34353744
This is what the Law Enforcement industry calls "Suicide by Giant Spider"
>>34353780
Isn't that right next to the book as "Death by cannibal family" or is that just here in Florida?
>>34353744
>the oracle
>playing solely an oracle
>playing a class designed pretty much entirely around improving other classes abilities as your major class
I think this guy deserves to die
>>34353780
Law enforcement... Industry?
In my experience players will surprise you with their tenacity, resourcefulness, and dumb luck. Nearly all the times I thought my players were running into a TPK or hard battle they survived.
>>34353885
Wait 32 AC? Hahaha bring extra character sheets
>>34353408
>playing asocietycampaign
>DM tells us a minotaur saunters out of the forest and is super peeved at us for some reason
>rest of level 2 party is like oh fuck we should run
>nah, i grease it
>party proceeds to bully/slut shame this minotaur for wandering near us too close by glitterdusting and literally kicking it while it flails around in a puddle of gross
let it happen, something fun might come out of it
>>34353705
This, OP.
>>34353408
Spiders like to let their prey stew for a while, so even if they lose you can always do an escape from the parlour sequence
>>34353899
I threw a kraken at a level 4 party once. It was intended to destroy the ship they were on and strand them on a nearby island.
However the party consisted of gunslingers and wizards, and with a touch AC of 5, the poor bastard didn't stand a chance.
>>34353869
Welcome to America.
>>34354158
This.
>>34353838
What the fuck are you even talking about.
>>34353838
The oracle is actually in 2nd place in total damage dealt very close behind the paladin.
>>34353408
Kill one and describe, in intense detail, the consumption and destruction of that person's corpse so the rest of them get the idea.
If they do not, continue the slaughter. If they're too stupid to run, they should die.
>>34353744
Your players sound kinda fucking stupid. Just let nature run its course.
>>34354158
Yeah this sounds like a good idea
>spider beats them senseless
>paralysis in its poison
>ties them up in web cocoons
>"you wake several hours later, no spider in sight but walls made from webs make it clear you're deep within its lair."
>they free themselves
>they either escape or search for the spider for round two
>spider is literally unable to be found
>have some neat treats like mostly dead other captives telling them to gtfo before it comes back
>if they try to free the captive have the inside of the captive's cocoon filled with lots of baby spiders eating him alive that render him otherwise useless
>>34353838
B-but I like playing the support character and bards a shit
>>34355253
Don't be a pussy. Punish stupidity.
>>34355283
Fine, have their precious armour broken.
>>34355283
Well they don't find out later that they're also carrying spider eggs. Better get that shit removed pronto.
Reveal that it is half-spider, half-rust monster, and then have it eat their armour and weapons.
That should make the fuckers run.
>>34355283
Player mistakes shouldn't completely halt the game. The GM-player relationship is not competitive.
>>34355283
I don't know, what about all the ideas the GM might have to use on the party? Why should he be punished by having to revolve another campaign around their next players just because they all decided to go off and kill themselves?
Only a stupid fucking beginner DM would send a monster way too powerful to defeat after the players and TPK them.
A Kraken, against level 6?
Really you fucking idiot?
>>34356258
Autist, introducing a big bad apocolyptic monster is a staple in many games. You set it up that better npcs then you, ones with far more strength then you get one shot. If they rush into it's gullet, you give them what they are asking for.
Giving them macguffins to kill it or anything else is just pandering.
>>34353967
>Minotaur saunters out of woods.
>Grease it
>Have hot Minotaur dickings inna woods
>Slut shame it afterwards with glitterdust
Sounds like a Friday night in Vegas.
>>34356258
The plan was for them to run away from it. Being mad at that is like being mad at giant boulders.
>>34356295
What the fuck ...
I don't understand how fucking dropping a literal Dragon in front of the PCs and chasing them down with it is a staple.
>>34356329
Wait, did I say dragon?
No, I did not. I said you send it against npcs. NPC's you have some how shown the party that they are superior. Which takes time, story telling, and character development if you're not an autist. (Sorry)
THEN.
If they choose to seek out death, you deal it. I never said you send it on them. You put it in the vicinity and show 'the better men' running.
Seriously. Put down the dice. This kind of game is not for you.
>>34356295
No you don't. You let them play with it for a while until megaspider gets bored and wanders off. As a gargantuan creature, it might not even notice them if they can't break the AC.
>>34356329
Yeah, he's doing it wrong and being stupid. You can have an encounter with a Beholder at level 3-but it isn't there to fight. And if you choose to fight it, eye rays.
>>34356397
You're right. A Kraken is actually more powerful than a lot of ages of Dragons.
>>34356329
Did you even read his post, nigger?
>>34356421
>I DROPPED A SPIDER WITH THE SAME STATS AS THE KRAKEN AND MY PLAYERS ARE FIGHTING IT NOT RUNNING!!!!
Is what I read.
>>34356329
Because it teaches players that they aren't the biggest, baddest fuckers out there and that mortality is a thing.
>>34356449
No it doesn't. It's just fucking lazy. What teaches players humility is fucking them up and leaving them to die. Not just TPK them with a mindless fucking spider that's CR 18.
>>34356415
Your balance is terrible. Either the fight doesn't take place as the dragon or kraken retreats, or the dragon wins.
Why on Apsu's green earth would a dragon EVER get close enough for the kraken to do ANYTHING.
Sure, when facing a party having the dragon doing max range flybys is a bitch and a dick GM move, but if you're comparing monster to monster, don't put them toe to toe.
Minotaur Barbarian + Succubus, who would win? Well toe to toe that succubus is swiss cheese, initiative is too low so random chance there, and that DR won't stop shit. But would you EVER picture a succubus dying that way, going toe to toe with the beefstick?
No.
>>34356488
What the fuck am I even reading
>>34356462
It was supposed to be a chase scene dude. Have you never seen a chase scene involving running from giant monsters before?
>>34356522
Not in Pathfinder, no. Especially considering a GARGANTUAN FUCKING SPIDER CAN'T BE OUTRUN.
THERE IS NO FUCKING CHASE AGAINST THAT.
IT'S JUST DM BULLSHIT.
>>34356536
That's true, a Gargantuan creature would easily overtake them.
>>34356462
Who the fuck let all these people get the mentality that everything is supposed to be killable?
I mean, I'm not saying doing the 'BLACKSMITH YOU ROBBED IS SECRETLY A PLATINUM DRAGON AND SMITES YOU' but I'll dose a town with middle aged / old retired adventurers who could put you to pasture. And if you fuck around in their squares, yes, they will fuck you up in their own way.
High fantasy is one thing but the kind of games letting the players always be blindly stupid... you're playing He-man. Not Lord of the Rings. Not Game of Thrones. Fucking saturday morning cartoons. The good guys win, lets all go fuck a potato.
>>34356555
This is exactly why I said this is a stupid fucking beginner DM in the first place.
Any player with even a minor understanding of the movement rules would realize why a fucking chase scene against a CR 18 giant fucking spider is ridiculous and absurd.
What kind of lazy dumbass DM would do something like this
>>34356536
>Spider attacking town
>Mindless Int 0
>Formulates plan to chase outlying difficult prey when cowering prey is still available
Go watch a spider. See if it chases ANYTHING. Tarantula sure, maybe, but not that far.
>>34356536
How do you know it couldn't be outrun? He clearly intended them to outrun it in the first place so he probably dicked with the stats a bit or he gives the spider penalties because its really cramped in the dungeon or something.
>>34356329
Putting an unconquerable monster in front of them and expecting them to run? Yeah, that's a staple. I've literally used it twice in my Warhammer RP 2nd ed game. The party is being hunted by a Varghulf (pic extremely related) and twice now there's been a chase sequence when they had to pry the thing off their boat or cart and deal enough damage to dissuade it from the immediate chase.
It may come to you as a shock that not everything in the game world was specifically designed for masturbatory power fantasies. Something are actually TOO HARD FOR THE PARTY TO KILL. Shocking, I know.
>>34356591
>Pot
>Meet Kettle
>Oh so black.
>>34356593
Kraken stats, including int.
>>34356601
>How do you know it blah blah blah? LOL? XD
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts/kraken
He's using the Kraken's stats.
Speed 10 ft., swim 40 ft., jet 280 ft.
Assuming the 10 ft speed is meaningless, it's land speed is 40.
It's run action therefore means it moves at 160 feet per round.
>>34356610
I've done the wandering zombie horde ala Walking Dead in a random part of Urstalav, when my carrion crown group TPK'd, as another group adventured.
It was a ton, but being a melee heavy party they could have fought them all and won.
They decided to hide and let them pass.
Now, call me a bad DM, but if I made that encounter and planned for them to fight it, and instead they let it pass through on the thought it was too dangerous to fight, why does putting a mega-monster in the picture become inconceivable that they should NOT fight it?
>>34356634
If he planned for there to be a chase scene why would he make it so that they couldn't outrun the spider ever? The fact that he expected them to run indicates that he had some way for them to outrun the thing.
>>34356669
I see you there Satan.
>>34356698
Are you really saying
>It's DM magic, he can make up shit
Right now?
I'm a DM.
I consider this kind of play highly lazy and close to just making shit up.
Here is a crazy dig.
How about OP posts what they intended to do for a chase scene, was it established this thing had the speed of Hermes or was it sluggish? Was it targeting the party specifically and was going to pursue like a t-1000?
If so, then yes, you are incredibly wrong. As their only choice without a rescue or some escape vehicle to run to, is to fight.
>>34356732
Incredibly lazy? You piece of shit, improv is needed in almost every facet of the game. I bet your game has more rails then the B&O Railroad.
Bet you play rules as written 100% eh? Because nothing bad ever comes from that.
>>34356732
Or maybe they had rooms and shit they could book it through. Moats to jump, rope bridges to cross, gates to drop, tiny crevices to squeeze through. Not that hard to think up things to put in its way when you planed it ahead of time.
>>34356765
You don't really seem to understand that plopping down a giant spider with the stats of a Kraken around level 6 characters makes no sense.
Realistically speaking, I've put down a single powerful monster or two near my group of players if they are mid level, but never anything that would just instantly and easily TPK them. There's a possibility one member could die, but never the whole party.
>>34356628
>>34356634
Oh, okay, so lets slave it to that.
>Oh wait, it is using every single kraken stat. Kraken is aquatic without amphibious, and this spider is attacking on land! Problem solved.
Either the GM is allowed to pick and choose, or you're wrong.
>>34356794
It all depends on settings. In the plane of Final Destination, an open field with nothing to be done but run in one direction or fight. Sure, you could be right there.
The situation is so undefined, I've stuck a banshee leashed to a room near players. But if they walked in knowing she was there, I would kill them for the trespass. Common sense.
>>34356794
I like how justified you think you are, and how incredibly off base you are.
If you ever wonder why you can't find rpg groups, you may very well be the reason people won't group with you.
>>34356794
TPK? Even an intelligent spider would stop with one and consume and prepare them unless they were an imminent threat to the spider or their meal.
It would yield one death, which falls into your category of acceptable.
>>34356906
>>34356941
You can samefag all you want.
I have DM'd many of the same people for over 10 years and we go strong.
Enough of this Giant Spider Kraken nonsense.
>>34356941
>Even an intelligent spider would stop with one and consume and prepare them
What the fuck are you talking about? How do you fucking know what a spider with Kraken stats would do? Mine would mercilessly hunt down the adventurers, killing them all.
>>34357035
But spiders eat things alive.
>>34357013
>>34357035
You can samefag all you want.
I have DM'd many of the same people for over 10 years and we go strong.
Enough of this Giant Spider Kraken nonsense.
>>34357064
It's fucking super intelligent and is killing them to kill them, not eat them, moron. If it's that big it probably feeds on dragons, especially since this DM said it has the stats of a Kraken.
>>34357035
Like you know what my spider was going to do.
>>34357013
>10 years of gaming
>In my day we had to roll our dice uphill, in the snow!
>We rolled 3d6 for every stat, and those were the baddies! We all got to flip coins for d2's and subtract 1 from each stat. We didn't complain, we thanked the DM for his generosity!
>I'm not spouting utter bullshit, 10 years! 10 years of not utter bullshit!
>>34357088
How do you know its not going to eat them? Are you the DM? Maybe its hungry. I cant live off cookies but that doesn't stop me eating them.
Also still assuming it uses all of the kraken stats.
>>34353408
begin an epic monster battle. Have the ground beneath them collapse into ancient ruins filled with rubble that will allow them to move where it can't directly attack, but disjoint it such that they must expose themselves to move between spots.
Upgrade it's web such that it can completely block off an empty square until they burn the webbing away.
Instead of one spider unit, use 8 leg pieces with the head floating above. Allow them to destroy the legs one by one and cripple the beast.
There needs to be at least three giant boulders they can drop on it.
And be ruthless in the combat.
>>34357088
>It doesn't have kids to feed
>Spiders are CE wasteful murderhoboes
Yeah no, if you've been DMing with the same group for ten years, I feel so sorry for them knowing that there was a much better way to spend all of that time.
>>34357088
By your own argument, then why would it be after the adventurers again? Why not hunting dragons?
Also, shit, forgot my picture! >>34357127
>>34357147
>>34357159
Two rugrats pictures. Less then post timer between the two.
>How glorious.
>>34357147
>>34357159
>Condescending_Rugratsmind
>I love railroading my campaigns by putting giant spiders with Kraken stats behind my PC's that they can't kill, they just have to run
>It's fun and teaches mortality
Okay.
>>34357193
Than.
>>34357146
would you play with me /tg/?
>>34357236
How about it sets up a monster who can be killed as a sign of progression for the party, as opposed to the treadmill of exp and new monsters and exp and new monsters, all of whom you have never met?
Pleb.
>>34357272
Why would I want to stop a giant spider? They rarely have any treasure.
>>34356669
Because you made an encounter that they had a hard time judging the power level of?
Granted, I prefer systems that don't give you XP for just killing shit, but rather for overcoming obstacles. In WHFRP? Letting the zombie horde pass is a perfectly legitimate response if all you're trying to do is get past them to reach whatever your original objective was. There's no reward for just trying to kill everything in sight, so my players tend to think of clever solutions to problems.
>>34357312
Their web or hole would.
>Dead people have no need for goods, spider has no need for them either
>Dead dragon? Sweet. Scry who he was, find his hoard.
Get the point?
>>34357326
Oh you're right, I should have put level markers above their heads next to the hit point bars.
My bad.
In all seriousness I never said I was disappointed with their reaction. It made sense, and I did give them the experience. (Hint, even the systems who use kill-exp don't have to! If you don't step on a trap I still give you exp for it when you leave the dungeon, it was a danger).
I was merely pointing out that if a possibly dangerous situation could be considered for not fighting it for self preservation, a CLEARLY dangerous one should be allowed as well. A fairly simple point but I hope this clears it up for you.
>>34357312
Well apparently using kraken stats means you have to include intelligence so maybe it has a horde? Alternatively its a wizards guard dog.
>>34357405
A horde you say?
>>34356634
>some guy says that the DM probably altered the stats to make it outrunnable
>your counter-argument (the SRD page) relies on the assumption that said DM is using the unaltered stats from the SRD
>you then proceed to ignore the creature's listed land speed and substitute its swim speed in
Holy fuck, you're retarded.
>>34357435
>raid giant spider nest because you hear it has a huge horde
>defeat giant spider and check out the nest
>discover its "horde" was 100 belligerent orks tied up in webs
>>34357509
What the fuck are you talking about?
>>34353408
>The party in my Pathfinder campaign is fighting a Gargantuan size spider with Kraken stats.
>>34353408
If it's a chase, it's not a monster, it's a set piece. If you want something killed, you stat it. You don't stat set pieces. If they fight it, they should get captured, not killed, and stuck in sacs they need to escape. They need to escape quickly because babbies who are killable are coming to feed, and the one guy also alive beyond your party is screaming at you to run as tiny spiders erupt from his mouth.
Your players now have the imminent need to escape, and a direction to go. They need to purge the spider eggs from their body or they will die being eaten alive from the inside.
>>34357272
It can't be a sign of progression if it causes a TPK, Pleb.
>>34357565
So much this
>>34357565
>implying parasitoids leave their hosts entirely conscious and able
>implying spiders are parasitoids
Congratulations, you've managed to fail miserably twice over.
>>34357387
As the GM, it's your role to introduce monsters and encounters appropriately to the group. That means being able to give the group some sort of vague clue as how powerful the enemy is.
That being said, that's not even the case here. If OP had plopped a spider down without giving the party any idea that fighting it meant a TPK, it'd be one thing. But in this case?
>>34353744
>Know they can only hit it with crits and touch
>Know it only can miss them on a 1
>Manage to get a 50% chance to stun it, which doesn't even the fight but does give them a chance to escape
>Still decide to fight
The "Party is captured and must escape" option is a good one if the campaign has been ongoing and OP doesn't want to start over, but if this was session 1? I'd gladly let them all die and laugh at them for being morons.
>>34357565
Thank you for actually being rational, instead of that guy who keeps repeating over and over it's perfectly acceptable to make a gargantuan spider fight your level 6s because "he meant it to be a CHASE"
>>34357614
It's a kraken spider, and there are cases of spiders injecting eggs into human bodies. Also rule of cool. A guy screaming at you to run as spiders eat him alive is hell of a lot more of an onus then. "You wake up wrapped in shit, wat do."
>>34357539
Your failure of logic is so astounding that I'm having trouble breaking it down.
OP wanted the characters to outrun this spider - it was intended as a chase scene.
You start going on about how there's no way they could outrun this thing.
Anon points out that if OP intended the players to outrun it, then he probably altered its movement stats somewhat in order to make it do-able.
You seemingly ignore that point, maybe thinking that nobody would ever change the published stats of a creature. You post a link to the Kraken's stats in order to 'prove' that they couldn't outrun it. Except the very link that you posted says that the Kraken's land speed is 10ft. Not precisely difficult to outpace for level 6 adventurers.
But that's not good enough for you. So, ignoring the previous basis for your argument ('you must go by RAW and not alter anything'), you mandate that OP's kraken-spider must use its swim speed instead of its land speed, for some goddamn reason.
You see the flaw in reasoning here? OP isn't allowed to alter stats to make it possible to outrun, but you're allowed to alter stats to make it impossible.
Not to mention that OP's players probably aren't encountering this thing on the Plane of Plains, and will almost certainly have ways of outmanoeuvring it via skill checks.
>>34357644
What bullshit
>>34357678
Okay, stop.
First of all, the main issue I have with this entire "encounter" is this
>Anon points out that if OP intended the players to outrun it, then he probably altered its movement stats somewhat in order to make it do-able.
This is called DM bullshit. As I stated previously. It's like pretend. It's not real rules. It's a DM taking something that would normally be unlivable and being lazy about it and just saying
>Well it can't do its full and normal stuff because reasons.
Which is, in an of itself, lazy and bullshit set/encounter design.
Changing the "published" stats after specifically stating you put down a giant unstoppable spider is whatever. It's the fact you can't think of a clever way to challenge the NPCs in a proper chase other than just putting down a god. In fact, OP fucked up so much and is so lazy, he can't even think of something around a TPK scenario. And people were saying
>TEACH THEM A LESSON
>STUPIDITY MUST BE PUNISHED
As if the players are in the wrong for trying to fight off a giant monster in a fantasy game.
If you have to alter the stats of a monster, it's not a game anymore. It's just kind of "DM fun"
>>34357674
There aren't cases of spiders injecting eggs into ANYTHING. What there ARE, are spiders hiding egg-cases in a human's orifices by accident.
Plus, actively having the players be loaded with eggs means that you've now sent the story off in a different direction, as now the game is based around magically finding a way to get several dozen fist-sized spiders out of you rather than whatever was first planned.
Plus, a guy literally vomiting spiders as he tells people to run is so over the top as to be grimly hilarious. It's on par with a guy falling off a building and comically flipping around on impact.
>>34357565
>If you want something killed, you stat it.
Eh. I like to stat things out, because then it's just fucking GM fiat. "Oh, you try to fight the spider? You're all captured. Automagically." I'd much rather the spider legitimately be just so powerful that the party doesn't have a chance without a really solid plan. Which isn't impossible, what if they manage to fell a bunch of trees on it? Or cause a rockslide that buries it, or aggro chain the Tarrasque on over. If the entirely of their plan is just hit it until it falls over, let them pay the price of stupidity.
>>34357734
>Automagically
Except that a gargantuan spiders webbing WOULD capture them all. And it's "automagic" that they are somehow running and surviving this thing.
>>34357729
What, so a DM has to find the one monster with stats that fit the situation, and only use that, even if there's another one which is more appropriate flavour-wise?
Jesus Christ.
>>34357663
>perfectly acceptable to make a gargantuan spider fight your level 6s
He's not making his players fight it.
THEY are making themselves fight it.
Because they are morons who can't conceive of a monster that might actually be too difficult for them to kill at that exact moment.
>>34357729
>It's like pretend
God forbid you play pretend in the middle of your game of pretend. Not like there has been a little thing called "houserules" floating around for a while either.
>Synthesist summoner
>Harness of eidolon harnessing
>20 charisma
>All at level 3
DM mad as fuck I managed to steal the thing.
>>34357782
They even know its stats.
>>34357752
So then use the goddamn stats that are there to make it happen. I can see adjusting them to make it more viable for the spider to capture rather than kill the party, but make the goddamn rolls for it, don't just make it a piece of railroading bullshit.
>>34357799
>Houserules
Haha, I can tell you're a great DM.
>>34357730
>There aren't cases of spiders injecting eggs into ANYTHING. What there ARE, are spiders hiding egg-cases in a human's orifices by accident.
Again, rule of cool. Why you'd ever allow reality to get in the way of awesome fantasy is beyond me.
>Plus, actively having the players be loaded with eggs means that you've now sent the story off in a different direction, as now the game is based around magically finding a way to get several dozen fist-sized spiders out of you rather than whatever was first planned.
It's a short term and more immediate goal and threat. Depending on how they're removed it can lead to being indebted to the people that removed them, That's expansion of story.
> Plus, a guy literally vomiting spiders as he tells people to run is so over the top as to be grimly hilarious. It's on par with a guy falling off a building and comically flipping around on impact.
If you were really immersed, you wouldn't find it funny at all. Listening to a man slowly die screaming as his body is engulfed in tiny spiders erupting from his orifices. That should fucking terrify you, it should scar you mentally. If you laugh, you're a sociopath, or a desensitized thing that could barely be called a person from the shit you've seen.
>>34357850
I am not a DM. I can still see when messing with stats might be applicable on occasion. So what if he lowers its movement? Hes already given it the stats of an ocean dwelling cephalopod.
>>34353967
>DM sicks an ogre onto our level 2 party
>I trip it
>entire party wails on it
>dies before it even has a chance to swing
>DM magically makes a group of orcs jump out of the bushes, because he's upset we killed his ogre so fast
>>34357850
Yes, every system is 100% flawless. There is never, ever anything that needs to be fixed, tweaked, or outright scrapped. Most certainly not in GLORIOUS DnD.
>>34357850
>Houserules are a sign of a shit GM
No the sign of a shit GM is one who doesn't adhere to Rule 0. Rules are subject to change if they interfere with a cool story
>>34357146
This. If they want a fight, then give it to them, but give them a small chance of victory even without miracle rolls so long as they fight smart. If they want to keep being fucking retarded, then go with >>34355253 unless you're okay with killing then off... And even then, maybe; getting eaten alive by spider hatchlings or some kind of larval scavengers that sample the spider's larder is a great bad end.
>>34357956
>I make up stats for a giant spider god that can TPK the party if they dont just perpetually run from it until they escape
>It's my house ruled spider
>>34357974
>I'm the DM I can make up random monsters with imaginary stats
>This is a shield monster, it has a special ability called reflect, it reflects all damage. You just have to run from it or you will die.
>I am good because I houserule and know the system would have flaws without my houserules.
>>34358054
Nice ad hominem. Keep on trollin.
>>34358029
>>34358054
All this autism over the suggestion that a DM made a spider slower.
>>34357601
>Progression from life into death
>Not a sign of progression
How do you even breathe?
>>34358095
But the kicker is
>HE DIDN'T
A kraken's land speed, where this spider was attacking from, is 10 feet.
Even a lame cursed oracle gnome/halfling could outrun it just fine. And he is going Spurg-burgers over nothing at all.
>>34358095
No one said the DM made a spider slower.
The OP said he gave the giant spider the stats of a Kraken, which has a land speed of 10 because it's native to water. It's native water speed is 40.
Logically speaking, the spiders native land speed should be 40, since it's not a fucking squid.
But yeah. House rules, yo. My Psionic Terrasque is better than yours.
>>34358149
Maybe its a giant water spider.
>>34358127
You're a funny guy,
That isn't progression, that's stagnation. Progression requires growth or accomplishment.
So if you think accomplishing dying is progression? That's kinda depressing in a way.
>>34357974
This, pretty much. There's a reason Rule 0 is in every gaming system, and that's because developers know they can't make up perfect rules that fit all the things, all the time. Hence, houserules.
Of course, if you have to houserule a system five ways into Sunday to make it workable, then it's shit. But creating a custom monster is pretty standard for non-autists.
>>34358029
>>34358054
laughingdevelopers.png
>>34358190
>But creating a custom monster is pretty standard for non-autists.
The argument was more about the fact he designed an encounter that can only be dealt with in one very limited and linear way.
Run or the entire party dies.
>>34358149
>THE STATS MUST BE IDENTICAL
>CHANGING ANYTHING IS A SIGN OF SHIT GM.
>NO HOUSERULING ANYTHING, DESPITE WHAT LOGIC MIGHT TELL YOU YOU CANNOT CHANGE A THING
Well, seeing the native speed is 40 then logically you must change it so the spider's base land speed is 40....
>THAT IS A HOUSE RULING DIPSHIT
>Boy you turned me into a teenage girl I can't even so hard.
>>34358149
You know what's funny? Don't even need to do that, if you want the spider to be slower, you put shit in it's way, and small tunnels it can't get to that open back into larger ones it can. this gives dynamic shit to hide behind and move through while being pursued.
>>34358214
And we've given him alternatives to TPK. They run, or they fight, get captured, and need to escape without the big spider around, but the circumstances are much more dire.
>>34358224
He didn't say he changed anything.
>>34358183
Everything dies. It's inevitable, and happens to every living thing at some time or another. Therefore, dying is progression, as it's the thing that normally comes after being alive. Logic.
>>34358274
With this form of dumbass logic, not being born is progression. We've been dead twice. Before birth and then after birth.
This is how dumb you sound right now.
>>34358264
>Logically speaking, the spiders native land speed should be 40, since it's not a fucking squid.
I'm sorry, you were saying how retarded you are?
>>34358214
Thats what it started with but then it turned into
>hurr durr houserules is bad. Only shit DMs change stats
>>34358228
I suggested that basically earlier and got >>34356634 as a response. I gave better examples then but that was apparently ignored.
>>34358214
There's nothing wrong with designing an encounter that's you're meant to run from, any more than it's wrong to design an encounter that you're meant to fight.
Both are valid, especially if the DM is flexible and allows alternate solutions from clever players like talking what was meant to be the final boss encounter into surrendering, or dropping an avalanche onto the unbeatable kraken spider.
>>34358214
And I see no problem with that. Some monsters can't be killed if the party is too low level. It would be an issue if the spider was specifically out to skullfuck the party to the exclusion of all else, but it sounds like it's just a hungry monster spider doing hungry monster spider stuff, so get the fuck out the way and it'll leave you alone.
Although I will say that unless this particular spider has some known plot significance ("this is Shelob, queen bitch of giant spiders and a way bigger shit-kicker than regular giant spiders") then it's kinda bizarre that it has way better stats than normal giant spiders of equivalent size, which the party could have mistaken it for (a normal gargantuan spider in PF is only AC21). But aside from that there isn't anything inherently wrong with the party brushing up against something they can't kill and having to look for alternate means of survival besides killmaimburn.
>>34357861
>Universal_Brotherhood.jpg
>>34358214
How is that different from the standard encounter of "Fight the monster or everybody dies?" Most monsters have such high movement speed, not to mention a slew of of movement related special abilities an immunities to various methods of non lethal combat that the players have no choice but to fight. Nearly every situation a party encounters in a game has an extremely limited number of options, you merely reject this situation cause the option isn't the one you expect.
>>34358385
Exactly. Somewhere along the line people got the idea that murderhoboing their way through every encounter is the One True Way and anything else is just silly talk.
>>34358295
One is not dead before one is born, one merely does not exist. Unless one believes in reincarnation, in which case existence is an endless progression of birth, life, death, and rebirth. Which then would be the natural progression of things. A glacier forming, moving, and then melting is progression. A candle melting till it can no longer burn is progression. A living being dying and decaying is progression. It fits the very definition of progression. Somewhere along the line, modern people have gotten the idea in their heads that "progress" means "good." It does not. It means things are changing, that one state is being exchanged for another. The new state may well be undesirable compared to the old state. But it's still progress.
>>34353722
Funny, I had a burger as well on some kinda bakery fresh bread, bleu cheese was involved. Quite tasty.
Also, is it wrong to, once in a while, just completely screw with your players as payback for them always doing retard levels of murderhobo shit? Like the things no reasonable person could expect them to keep getting away with.
Also, for trying to invoke the word rape in every single enemy encounter if there are female PCs. This one as payback against previous DMs.
>>34357510
hey, it's free XP. they're all helpless. I'd take it. you just walk by and coup de grace.
>>34357565
but what if I want to give the heroes a chance to somehow shenanigans it dead?
I'd need stats for that.
So you give it stats you only use if they start trying to shenanigan.
>>34357729
>implying DMs can't every deviate from the released product or it's somehow "wrong"
>implying it stops being a game if a custom monster exists
Son, I don't think DnD is meant for you. Have you tried chess? Chess sounds more your type of game.
>>34357832
DM is stupid to ever let a synthesist in his game, much less you.
Never seen one yet that wasn't an insufferable powergamer and a prick.
>>34357850
>and I can /certainly/ tell that you are one.geez, this guy has to be trolling, right? nobody's this bad?
>>34361159
To maintain my sanity I won't accept that such an autist exists.
>>34353838
>playing a class designed pretty much entirely around improving other classes abilities as your major class
>my nigga
I splashed oracle to my wizard so his cold spells would slow
>Impossible to kill monster which players have to run from
Not even one of my DMs did this thing right, yeah, we realize, is impossible to kill, sure, we start running, but they it turns out the monster outrans us like a lot...so we die anyway.
>Oh, something went wrong, here, didn't expect for you being so slow...only 30 ft speed?
Fuck you
>>34361179
are you him criticizing me while calling yourself autistic?
Or are you someone else that agrees with me but are criticizing me for leaving an extra jab at him in spoiler text?
>>34361224
you have a bad DM who just wants to railroad you into a TPK. Powertripping probably. Or revenge. Did you eat something in his fridge you weren't suppose to?
>>34361148
>DM is stupid to ever let a synth in his game
You meant a summoner, any summoner actually, because synth is only the derpy brother of summoners.
>>34361224
>2 headed T-Rex that shoots eye beams
>We start runing
>"So, DM, that creature runs faster than us, is anything near for us to hide or some shit? like a cave, dense forest, etc?"
>"No, I already told you, this is a plain, big ass plain"
>ofw
OP your first problem was presenting something...anything at all (ever) and expecting your PCs to get the gist of it without throwing an enormous wrench into it. Never. Ever ever ever EVER (ever) put your game on rails. TPK. apologize and promise to be a better GM.
>>34357312
Because a giant spider setting up camp near my home town is bad
Because my group isn't a band of viscous murder hobos who don't fight unless they can also pillage
Because I'm a Paladin and I cannot let this monstrosity terrorize the country side
Because I'm a druid and a spider of this size is obviously augmented and therefore an affront to the natural order of things
etc etc
>>34353744
Assuming they're in some old ass ruins or something, you could have them roll knowledge to use the environment around them, maybe suggest that if they run now and hide in the smaller tunnels it won't be able to reach them.
They could find some old cannons, or ballistae bolts. Give them a chance to ambush it.
OOC warn them that they aren't gonna kill it, but they can certainly wound it to the point where it'll retreat into the darkness for a few centuries.
>>34357644
>Party is captured and must escape
That's a pretty good one. Have the spider paralyze them and wrap them up in web before leaving to do something. Party gets a chance to run before the spider comes back.
>>34356514
He's saying a dragon is smart enough to kick a kraken's ass.
>>34357435
He meant a successful horde though.
>>34361317
Don't blame the GM for your incompetence.
>>34361371
Why does a spider that size have to be an aberration / mage experiment? It's possible the fucking thing is just GAR enough to survive several millenia and NOT get eaten by it's siblings / things higher on the food chain.
What now, druid man?
>>34357601
Are you being serious?
>Run away from Giant fucking Spider NOW because you are too fucking weak to do shit to it
>Encounter same fucking Spider later on
>Kill or wound the fucking thing, because you are stronger than you were.
>You have progressed
>>34357614
Why can't Giant God Damn Spiders in a God Damn Magical World be parasitic when born?
Hell, it even makes sense.
>Giant god damn spider obviously produces large god damn eggs
>Such large off-spring won't be able to catch prey so soon after being born because their colors haven't set in, and giant volleyballs are not stealthy enough to catch birds / small mammals for their first food
>Put the eggs INSIDE their first food! So they have a source of nourishment that will last a handful of them as their colors come in and the eggs, the GIANT VOLLEY-BALL SIZED EGGS are kept hidden from anything lesser.
ITT /tg/ keeps replying to the same power baiting shitlord.
OP here. Sorry for not really clarifying but I thought I made it clear I would be using chase mechanics. I'm doing the campaign on Roll20 and when I took the party to the new page, their tokens were bunched up on a 2x2 black square with START in pink text and to the left of the square was the spider. The spider was chasing them because they fell on its eggs. They'd be able to outrun the spider because the tunnel they're in is too narrow for it to maneuver properly. I hope that clears things up.
>>34361317
Two-headed T-rex? Empty a jar of peas on the ground. It'll have to count them, but won't be able to because it has tiny arms, giving you ample time to escape.
>>34353744
>gargantuan spider
>the only way they can hit it is with crits
How exactly do you miss an enemy the size of an office building?
>>34362864
He also said that touch attacks made it.
So its just that the Chitin is -THAT- dense.
>>34362864
It has a touch AC of 6.
>Gargantuan Spider
>Dex: 13
>Touch AC: Shit
Just hit it with Ray of Clumsiness and then 1 Coup de Gras will be enough.
>>34362957
Wait, disregard that, Pathfinder don't have RoC.
Hahaha. holy shit, what's wrong with this guy? He can't accept fudging the stats of monsters?
I've heard about autism, but this is just too much
>>34357729
Fuck your stupid
>>34357013
Someone needs to draw the Spider Kraken.
>>34363172
You play too much video games. Not every fight has to be winnable.
>>34363673
You're going to fuck his stupid?
I don't even know how you'd go about that.
I do believe you may have meant: Fuck, you're stupid!
>>34353408
SO everyone is thinking of 2-d for a solution. Mine is that you let them fight the spider for two to three turns, spider some how hits the floor near them. When that happens the floor crumbles away and the players fall down to a lower cavern/river.
Now you can have the spider stay up in the room or fall down with them. if the spider falls with them have it be a river down there. The players and spider get washed away. Along the way the black out, then wake up later finding that they are some were on a shore line, injured and not knowing were they are.
>>34364551
Or maybe the spider can shoot string out its butt and lift itself to the ceiling and start shitting on the PCs until they go away.
Not every fight should be level scaled to your party. If they want to punch the empires greatest champion at level 1, let them, but dont lower him to their standards.
Same with the spider. The world does NOT revolve around them, they just live in it. They want to be big shots? Make them earn it. They fucked with the wrong spider.
That being said though, did they initiate it? Or did you plop it down?If they walked into the lair, on many warnings and signs that this shit isnt easy, then they deserve it. If you threw it at them and said "Nah, they will surely do what I have planned in my own head", then I suggest giving a way out. i.e, have a second spider come out, and then have old man Jenkins pop out of a sewer grate and say "quick this way!".
>>34361317
i had a DM once send a T-rex after me alone in a open field because i left the group.
>>34364942
>I roll to seduce!
>>34364942
My GM did that.
I was playing an Elan Soulknife/Psion. It ate me, and I tore my way out and killed it.
That was the first time something ate me alive. It happened four more times. I killed the creature every time.
So he banned soulknives.
Shit GM, yes.
>>34358149
This reminds me. How many iterations of the Tarrasque have there been? I know there's been one in every edition of D&D, plus Pathfinder, and there was an official Savage Species companion article on the Wizards site for applying the multiheaded template to it to make a 40-headed Tarrasque.
Have there been any other canon or pseudo-canon appearances?
>>34365041
>Banned the soulknives
>>34361520
Are you being dumb? I said IF. IF they don't run, people were suggesting TPK. That isn't progression.
>>34365326
So what you're saying is, "Never let the party TPK because isn't not progression"? Yeah, fuck THAT. If the players fuck up, they can and will be killed. That tension is the underlying fun of the whole game. Otherwise it's just a circle-jerk power fantasy.
>>34365379
*because that isn't progression, goddamn
>Using published monster stats for a reason other than inspiring your own
ISHYGDDT
>>34353408
this.
Players should know the time when its about to run.
>>34358054
>Shield monster
>Reflects all damage
>Trying to fight it
>Not having sex with it
Don't the imaginary players in this hypothetical scenario read Oglaf? ._.
ITT: Players who want to kill everything vs GMs and their precious story
>>34365421
Creating your own monsters violates the common point of reference a group uses. Everyone understands what's in the core books, but the moment you use homebrew or houserule something, you're no longer playing the system, but "The DM's Homebrew," and some players simply lose a common focus.
>>34353408
Let them do what they want if their lack of expereince means they realize too late they should have run like fucking hell thats natural and healthy for a game of dnd. If they manage to over come it somehow thats fine too, let them make their own choices and dont be afraid to kill a bitch off.
>>34364942
I know that feel. My DM sent a luck dragon after me.
>>34354288
Move along chummer. People who stand around here too long have a habit of turning up dead. Wouldn't want you to end up as one of them.
>>34353408
Your only mistake was overestimating your players. If I threw a colossal spider at my players when they were level 6, no way in hell they would fight it unless their characters legitimately had suicidal tendencies.
>>34356669
I've had my players unexpectedly opt to run when faced with hordes of giant ants, or large numbers of trained soldiers. Players won't blink twice when faced with some gargantuan beast of doom, but for some reason large hordes of enemies send them into hiding.
I guess it's the sense of impossibly high numbers that come with a large horde of foes. A single foe can be quantified. However big it may be, there's always a way to kill it. Hordes, on the other hand, have what seem to be countless numbers. The party can't picture a simple method to kill the horde. They expect the enemies to just keep coming, so they run.
