>there are people on this very board, right now, who'd rather keep their weak and obsolete flesh than have even a part of themselves cybernetically augmented
>There are people in the world, right now and in the future, who would rather trade in their loving, warm flesh for cold steel.
>These people would literally rather have an unfeeling machine made from man imbedded in them as opposed to their synchronized, amazingly complex and connected system of organs and cells several billions of years in the making
>>34071261
One word. NANOMACHINES!
>>34071261
>trying to justify your choice to remain a powerless fleshling
>>34071117
Go back to Mars!
>>34071261
>Implying that amazingly complex system isn't needlessly so, and horribly inefficient and ineffective
I would volunteer to test out cyber-eyes, considering I will likely go full-blind in the next 10-20 years anyways getting cyber-eyes would be the shit.
I would actually go full-cyborg if GiTs style androids ever become a thing in my life time.
The only place I draw the line is getting a cyber-brain. Something about fucking with the brain scares me.
There are people who argue that simply since I was born with this flesh I should keep it till the day I die. It broke. It aches, it cracks, and there will be decades before I am done with it.
Metal will make what was broken whole. Metal will ensure that what broke once won't break again.
And since this is how these threads often go:
I am a cripple who firmly believes in the goals of transhumanism, ask me anything.
>>34071117
>>34071826
Direct neural stimulation has limbs functioning again in 10 of 10 human testing anon, does this give you hope, or you you looking for the first Sleeve out?
>>34071821
I agree, my brain is the one bit that makes me me, even if it is a steaming pile of shit, and augmenting it with the computing power of a potato would improve it ten fold.
>>34071821
Replace one neuron with a synthetic neuron. It acts the same way as you old one. Replace another neuron... and another and another... Tell me, when do you stop being you?
>>34071821
I'll download my brain when they can successfully reproduce emotion. life's pretty boring without 'em
then I can begin my cyber-conquest and become the ubermensch
>>34071994
That's exactly what I mean though.
How do I know that my cyber-brain "self" is the same entity as my real brain "self."
Not to mention most other body parts make sense to me, I understand how they mostly work, and the science behind the cyber upgrade of any given part could probably be easily explained to me.
Brains? Hell no, way too complex for me to even begin to grasp. The science behind a functioning cyber-brain is too complicated for me to even fathom.
I think it would be safe to say that I wouldn't fuck with my brain unless someone could tell me exactly how I would still be "me."
In a GiTS scenario that's actually not a problem, mind you, what with the ghosts and all. But who knows how consciousness works irl.
>>34072258
Honestly as long as I can retain my sense of self it wouldn't matter to me one way or the other if my brain is squishy or made of sythetic handwavium.
I think. There for I am. Even if my arm is made of fancy plastic I can reach out with it because it's my arm and I am the one commanding it to move.
>>34071994
Do you think that process could happen without changing you at all?
What if a virus slowly replaced your cells with something alien and parasitic, turning you into something out of "species"? When does it stop being you and start being the alien?
>>34072408
Most DNA in humans WERE put there by viruses, anon.
>>34072792
Not most, no. But viruses did change us over time. So when did we become human?
>>34072850
the whole idea of quantifying the concept of self is impossible
it isn't even an actual thing, so there isn't anything to ruin
worst case scenario, you die. that's it
moral of the story is; stop worrying and learn to love the bomb
>>34072850
What is human?
>>34073004
A miserable little pile of secrets?
Shit, I'd go full-convert cyborg in a synthetic heartbeat! Peak fitness, fully customizeable exo-skeleton, and numerous other bells and whistles? Sign me the fuck up!
>>34071117
>implying
IRON WITHIN IRON WITHOUT
>>34071117
Doesn't this really depend on the setting. I wouldn't want be an early 21st century cyborg or a Warforged, but I'd love to be an Eclipse Phase transhuman.
Yeah, replacing bits of my body with some planned obsolescence DRM-laden bullshit that Apple comes up with, having to sign a "license" to use my own body, THAT sounds fucking great.
Transhumanists are the thickest group of utopian futurists out there. They live in a fantasy world where technology is magically produced by some non-corporate entity for general consumption, and not designed, engineered and integrated as PART of consumerist culture with the express purpose of fleecing people out of their wealth.
The age of cybernetic transhumanism is going to be the age of the greatest wealth gap in human history. I guarantee you it is going to suck shit.
>>34075381
That's what you get for buying apple. Should have put together your own augs.
>>34072258
what is that gif from?
>>34075381
>>34075522
Only scrubs would by pre-built setups. Get aftermarket parts, install them yourself, andinstall gentoo.
>>34071994
>>34072258
And that's why if teleportation is invented I'm staying way the fuck away.
>>34071821
I'd be fine with genetic modification or adding hardware to the brain but not subtraction.
>>34075663
Batou no Pico
>>34071315
already got my blood thanks.
>>34078013
But do you have nanomachines that harden in response to physical trauma so that anyone named Jack can't hurt you?
I already have a pacemaker at the age of 26. Ive got titanium in my jaw and foot. Just a matter of time now. Cant wait for my artificial heart.
>>34078083
well, you wouldn't believe the boner I have right now.
I would only get strength augs and cyber eyes, and even then I want them to be hidden and discreet
>>34071117
You'll shred your essence like that bro.
>>34071752
The brain generally takes only enough power to turn on an oven light.
athiest: 1
god: 0
She's got some nice augmentations.
>>34078159
reposting that tech-priestess eh?
>>34071117
>Using Cybernetics rather than glorious gene mods
Weak
>>34071117
"What happened to Al?"
"Oh, his arms got hacked, apparently there was a firmware vulnerability, someone just made him punch himself in the dick over and over again"
Seriously, when I don't need anti-virus software, an ad-blocker and a local firewall to look at cat pictures safely, then, maybe, I'll consider replacing bits of myself with cybernetics.
>>34078234
Why would you need to hook up your arm to the internet?
>>34071117
Answer me if you will /tg/, a question. Are those of you reluctant to change your physical form in full control of it? Do you suffer from cerebral palsy, alzheimers, or schizophrenia? If a cybernetic brain would alleviate you of those things would you not take it? What about the smaller things? Anxiety, addiction, melancholy. Little things that separate you from you fellow human beings. Would you trade your flesh and blood for something mechanical if those things that ail you could be cured? I wonder because it seems to me that the brain is just hardware. If it malfunctions, it should be replaced.
>>34071994
This is exactly what happens to you during cell regeneration in a natural way. So every 12 years or so your whole body including gets completely replaced.
That's why some people theorize that humans 'die' several times in their lifes and get replaced with a replica of them with the same memories etc.
>>34078264
Ask the writers of 5th edition Shadowrun.
>>34072368
You're missing the point. It's very possible that you get 'killed' during this procedure, but no one notices because you get replaced with a perfect synthetic copy.
>>34076302
Moving shit one atom at a time is too inefficient. A better ay would be to simply lump the area of, and just around, what you want to teleport, and switch those two areas of space between teleportation pads. Bam, no deconstructing/reconstructing bullshit, no messing with atom-by-atom shit, just raw ctrl+C/ctrl+V with the fabric of space-time.
>>34078290
So bad writing?
>>34078264
Same reasons you'd enable internet connectivity on a pacemaker, insulin pump, refrigerator, and same reasons a company would require always on internet for a locally installed single player game, word processor, or movie.
>>34078336
So stargates?
>>34078159
good thing she has a lock on those panties, heaven knows what could happen if it wasn't there!! dear me!
>>34078264
Same reason the baddies in Watchdogs had wifi enabled grenades hooked up to the city network. Because people are stupid
>>34078384
Still you would be able to disable it. These are outlaws after all.
>>34078270
My point is that you won't have full control over it. Unless you're skilled enough to make it yourself you'll have full control over your cybernetics the same way you have full control over your cellphone.
>>34078384
You mean bullshit DRM? The only real reason you would have wireless functionality is for the reasons outlined in 4th edition Shadowrun. To download firmware updates(which you would never do on anything but your' secure home network)and so your cyberdoc doesn't have to cut you open to check the status of internal implants. At all other times if you have wireless capability in your implants your' going to have it turned off because that shit's not safe.
>>34078421
"You violated the DRM on your cybernetic implant? You know they can brick your device remotely according to the TOS right? "
And that's just assuming you don't just do something stupid and fuck up. Or whoever you're trusting to mod a part of your brain doesn't fuck up.
Not such a big deal with a phone. Pretty big deal if it's an eyeball or your motor cortex.
>>34078435
I suffer from GAD & Schizoaffective disorder. I DO have as much control over my mind as I do over my phone. Probably less. At least I can jailbreak my phone. Getting into a place where I can do something similar to my mind requires meditation, medication, therapy, & a fuckton of willpower.
>>34078457
http://www.google.com/patents/US20080091175
Or it's a neat idea with the best of intentions, but the actual code was outsourced to a third party, they didn't implement the full spec, and left a security hole that allows wifi to be remotely enabled.
Or hell, maybe it was implemented perfectly, and the standard had a hole no-one knew about. Heartbleed just happened for example, or there was that vulnerability in protected WiFi set up.
>>34078541
Fair enough. I'm honestly being a little didactic here by saying 'you' rather than being clear it's my reasoning and I understand that someone might have a different risk/reward calculation.
>>34078544
>remotely enabled
Good luck remotely enabling things that have no power going to them.
>>34071117
That makes sense. After all, if your cybernetics break down, you're dependent on a single company to fix them; if your body breaks down, you may have many more options. (For small damages, it may even repair itself.) And you're dependent on an external infrastructure - what happens if your heart's low on charge and there's a disaster blackout?
Also, we currently lack the ability to safely interface with the brain (current electrodes can cause scarring and necrosis), our batteries are bulky and pitiful compared to human fat or blood sugar, and existing actuators are actually really shit compared to human muscle.
If I were offered the option to be cyborged right now, I'd say no. (Well, maybe I'd get an under-skull EEG array. Those are pretty non-invasive and have a lot of interface possibility. And maybe stereo implanted bone-conduction speakers and microphones, if they didn't have the constant-open-wound problem due to sticking through the skin. And maybe an electrode grid in some patch of skin, to feed in additional data. But those are all minor.)
>>34071117
But anon, pump enough nanomachines into a Human and he's stronger than any robot or Cyborg!
>>34078941
But only if you go to UT, play football while your there, and join the navy afterwards.
>>34078922
>you're dependent on a single company to fix them
Nah. You can get your computer, car and phone fixed many different places.
>>34078922
Solar power. That or take the energy from the body to power it.
>>34078941
Cybernetics could be made to have nano machines in them. We already have self healing metal.
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/168382-mit-self-healing-metal-fixes-tiny-flaws
No I wanna direct a satirical dystopian anime about cyber augmentation corporatism.
One of the main players will be a mega corp called cherry (logo is a cherry with a single bitemark in it , being fixed by cybercherry parts) which has cult like, religous undertones.
>>34079065
Medical prosthetics are infinitely more tricky than a phone, and far more dependent on manufacturer-specific custom parts.
Also, there really is something to be said for a body made of hyperefficient self-repairing nanotechnology that only requires air, water, and carbon compounds harvested from other nanoassemblers that cover much of the planet to run.
>>34079065
>Cybernetics could be made to have nano machines in them
We already have self-repairing nanobots. They're called "cells."
We won't see artificial nanobots not based on DNA and amino acids until after your children's lifetimes.
weak metal can't regenarate,can't adapt withour help,van't go beyond it's program,can't breed,can't feel itc.
inb4 nanomachince becouse"remeber ,kids, whenever you have no arguments left use nanotechnology:metal can't regenerate?use nanomachine!psychic powers for robots?nanomachine!zebra and lion can't breed?nanomachine!Nanomachine-it's a fucking panacea!" even considering that using this nanotech on miltifunction flesh is more productiv then only beginig to evolve metal.
also fuck warwhores
>>34078336
I don't like that ctrl-C. More like ctrl-X? I'd prefer right-click rotate with both points selected.
I know that I would never want to use a teleporter, though I would probably be okay with the stranger forms of faster then light travel that basically teleport you. I wonder how I would feel about my friends/family using a teleporter though. Especially the deconstruct/reconstruct kind.
>>34079147
>Medical prosthetics are infinitely more tricky than a phone, and far more dependent on manufacturer-specific custom parts.
In the future maybe. Not currently. Also as the demand goes up the more places will work on cybernetics.
>>34079241
How the fuck do you manufacture and mass-produce nanomachines anyway? With a microscopic soldering iron?
>>34078284
>Similarly, neurons in the cerebral cortex – the brain's outside layer that governs memory, thought, language, attention and consciousness – stay with us from birth to death.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/cellular-microscopic/does-body-really-replace-seven-years2.htm
>>34079827
Technically an engineered virus would fit the description of a nanomachine. So you would breed them.
>>34079724
Actually modern prosthetics can get pretty damn expensive if you're looking for anything complex, which is one of the main reasons for the existence of things like the Open-hand project.
As the level of complexity of prosthesis increases, so will the price, sure it will also be driven down by more efficient/wider manufacturing but that doesn't mean a proper replacement prosthesis will be cheap, they'll still be a large investment for people.
If you can't afford a decent hand? You make do with the basic claw-ones that lot's of people are forced to use nowadays because they're priced out of more modern versions.
>>34079827
They reproduce on their own, judging by the last 3 billion years of nanotech design.
That's the thing about invoking advanced nanotech - we're already built out of advanced nanotech, honed over 3 billion years of optimization. The idea that it will be simple to build nanomachinery from scratch that outclasses it by miles borders on laughable.
>>34079971
>an engineered virus
Fuck it. That shit is more unstable than all radioactive material and mother nature combined
>>34079980
Apologies Then. As I only seen the more basic ones. Got a link to the more recent ones?
>3d printing
That really is the future.
why not have both?
actually wait no... that's a terrible idea
>>34080124
>3d printing
>the future
CNC machining is the future, and it has been around for years.
>>34080219
If it's been around for years? How can it be the future?
>>34080124
You have to contact most companies to get an actual quote, since they require custom fitting and then training programs to learn to use them properly.
IIRC the I-Limb was estimated at like $100k including custom fitting etc a few years ago.
>>34078627
IRespect the fact that you make different value judgements than me
>>34079993
I still don't belive in those
can robots be wizards?
>>34080029
>more unstable then nature
>viruses with a single role
oh boy
>>34080398
If they have brain and soul, I think they can.
>>34080398
Depends on how magic works in the setting in question.
>>34080398
In my setting, yes. Magic also absolutely ceases to break any technology actually part of a being with a soul, regardless of whether it's implemented in neurons or silicon.
>>34080398
If you can maintain >tfwnocyborgf for 30 years, sure.
>>34080416
>viruses with a single role
Yes and they role is to reproduce by fucking up everything near them. And you have to remember that the viruses mutates in every births. And you cannot control it.
>>34080398
Not sure about wizards but they can be Green Lanterns.
>>34078135
Wait, isn't this a good thing? Doesn't this mean our brains are extraordinarily energy efficient?
>>34080432
>>34080435
I think wizards need trinkets like coins or the wooden star of David where they use it like a conduit and if you take it from them the wizard cries. Also more fermented it is the better. Also A feculent thaumaturge could be good. Like a filth wizard that will spray you with stomach acid or suffocate you with animated flesh
>>34080514
I'd definitely be a little worried if my brain require more power than an oven light. Think about how much more food I'd have to eat.
>>34080514
Yeah. The brain uses only 17.watts; with an estimated 100 teraflops for a software equivalent* , then an equivalent computer with top-of-the-line energy efficiency would require 31 kilowatts.
Human brains are slow (only around 100 Hz), but astoundingly efficient and incredibly parallel.
*http://www.transhumanist.com/volume1/moravec.htm
>>34080534
Think about how much more food you could eat
Eh I'm waiting for biology to become our bitch. Don't want to replace too much when that will only sate part of my deviancy.
However if both are available at the same time, I'll probably become a cyborg herm and probably get addicted to modding myself until I get stuck in a loony bin or something.
>>34071117
Eh, I'll just keep what I got till it needs replacing.
>>34071994
RIght around the time you fuck up the placement of a single synthetic neuron.
The Brain is a complex and interwoven net. Data A isn't written to Neuron A.
It's more like Data ABCD is written to Neuron A, B, C, E, -F.
I'd have no problem replacing limbs with prosthesis if there were no downsides but I draw the line at the brain unless my braindeath is in the direct future.
The human body may be part of a process that has taken a long fucking time to get to its current point but keep in mind that there is a lot of shit left in that process. In order for human DNA to be expressed segments of it need to be cut out since they are useless Junk DNA that is unusable, comes from retro viruses or whatever.
>>34079993
Nobody smart was making that 3 billion year old nanotech however.
>>34080984
A lot of "junk" dna from retroviruses has been shown to be monumentally essential. Even the deactivation creates something that is distinctly human, and not having it there at all causes problems.
A human being is nothing more than a pattern with increasing entropy. Maintain the pattern and you maintain the person.
>>34080912
Same here. Or at least wait something like a month so I know for sure what the dangers'll be.
The flesh is weak.
>>34081625
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ecvLRxb3MU
I protect
>>34071261
>Implying that artificial nerves aren't going to happen
Once we get the central nervous system down, tacking on some temperature/pressure/etc sensors isn't going to be much of a leap.
>>34071821
Isn't a cyber brain just a box for your regular brain, so it can be easily transplanted and let you do the neural communication thing?
If I recall correctly, you need a cyber brain to go full prosthetic in GITS anyway.
Have fun when the rich people are flying around with flamethrower eyes you fucking dipshits.
I would only aug if I had an injury or something of the sort
Then I would aug everything else
>>34071821
cyber-eyes exist but are a longer way off being better than normal eyes, though who knows where it will be in the next 10+ years
currently the bionic eye project boasts an eye with a resolution of a handful of pixels and is not in full colour
Now there's something you didn't ask for Jenson
>>34071994
See, this post, right here, is part of why I think materialism is problematic, particularly when it gets down to the business of morals and ethics. If personhood is fundamentally illusory (which seems to be a conclusion we can draw from materialistic models of the world), then it stands to reason that any form of morality which says "do good to others" is nonsense simply because there is no such thing as "an other", at all. A human being has no more value than a rock.
There is a zen koan that operates along these lines, talking of a man who wishes to enter a port, but cannot because another boat is blocking entrance to the port. This eventually results in his boat sinking and him drowning, curing the captain of the other vessle - but as he drowns, he suddenly sees the other boat has no crew. But, see the issue? If there is no one else, there is no one to hate -but there is no one to love, either.
Materialism's most fundamental conclusion about human beings is that personhood and consciousness is a lie which does not exist in and of itself, but that arises as a accident of biological processes. That is, we are "beings that labor under the illusion of self". (pic related.) This has a number of implications about how the world might work, but one of the implications I think which would be hard to argue with is the notion that on the whole, it is better to be dead than alive in a world which ultimately A: does not care about us at all and which B: gives us far more suffering than joy.
However, if human consciousness is intangible - that is, some form of dualist personhood is true - one possible reason for this state of affairs that avoids self-contradiction (such as the homunculus paradox) is because there is a first cause, which my personhood depends on for it's existence. We usually refer to this first cause in the west, generally, as God.
>>34071978
>>34071994
>>34072258
>>34072368
>>34078135
>>34078270
>>34078284
>>34080613
>>34083503
>this thread
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M68GeL8PafE
>>34083853
you can have a physicalist non physical mind, it's known as supervenience theory
hardcore physicalists try to reject it
an issue with what you said is the is/ought fallacy
you say it's problematic because it poses a problem to morality (I disagree) but something being unappealing does not bear on it's truth or falsity
And personhood has not, in philosophy, been based simply upon conscious homo sapiens for a long time; Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep illustrates some common thoughts on this matter but it is worth noting corporate entities and the functionally retarded can count as persons legally.
Finally not all prosocial moral systems require a concept of other (phenomonology and affect is real enough and suffering is the among the simplest things one could ascribe negative value to) but if it did there is no reason why otherness could not be defined for instance as an emergent property of discrete phenomenologies
>>34083853
Humans are patterns. You can technically say humans and personhood are illusory, but it'd be roughly as true as saying weather is illusory, or lakes. Both of which are also ambiguously-defined patterns of subatomic particles not inherently encoded in the laws of physics.
I mean, there is a point of view where the fact that love, justice, good, evil, consciousness, and magenta are all products of meat somehow makes them not real. I just think it's a wrong and stupid position. Like claiming software is an illusion.
>>34084180
Amen, brother.
>>34071117
>implying I would turn down all augs just because I would turn down augs complex and connective enough to be hackable without a physical connection
>>34072850
50% percent.
>>34084436
>50% Percent
Five star post. Let me remember my personal PIN number so I can head down to the ATM machine and send you money through my personal PC.
>wanting to be robots
>not achieving lichdom
newfags, pls
Enjoy some random schmuck with a phone deciding your software desperately needs to allow him to throw your body into traffic.
>>34084544
This man speaks the truth.
I don't have anything against other people getting cybernetically augmented, but personally I'd rather go for genetic and otherwise biological augmentation.
>There are people on this very board, right now, who would rather be anything other than a skeleton
>These people do not realize the ultimate truth in that everything is a skeleton
>>34079188
Likely ever. Nanotechnology outside of modifying biological cells is purely the realm of magic.
>>34084025
That's what happens when transhumanists act like they know a damn thing about neurology. The cringe factor is huge.
>>34078435
For the most part it's a matter of looking up instructions and ordering the parts. I don't need to be an expert in aerodynamics and electrical engineering to build an RC plane.
>>34086228
Everybody knows that skeletons ain't real, anon.
>>34071315
It would be easier all around to use regular machines and scale up the rest of the body to accomodate them. Modern composites are strong enough to support a building-size robot.
>>34078264
Depends on what you want your arm to do.
I mean if you just want a functional replacement for the arm that is simply more efficient then the original without gimmicky bullshit reasoning, then really there'd be little to no reason. But corporations like having control over all their products so you're likely to see the "Golden Handcuffs" be thrown onto aug's for no apparent reason. Shit like this already happens, always online DRM for otherwise singleplayer games, Subscription based service, additional tools/functionality in exchange for personal information, etc. and even then they still strive to make more and more profit by selling ad space in-game or with subscription based services.
That and augmentations wont just be an accessory to some and more of a necessity to be competitive in the workforce.
not only that but say an individual gets multiple augmentations from the same company, they can then effectively sell their ENTIRE medical history that's constantly updating by the second.
Didn't upgrade to the latest version of Medware OS.
They know it.
Does your artificial liver detect resent alcohol consumption.
They know it.
They could effectively use this information to force you to either pay them for privacy, for updates, etc. in order to prevent yourself from becoming a liability to the company you work for.
That of course only becomes a reality if we don't keep these companies in check legally which is looking like less of a possibility with every passing day.
So if you'll excuse me, I need to collect some tin foil and duct tape from the dumpster outside. Need to protect myself from the illuminati mind control rays.
>>34078159
o please we all know they are storage for her extra power supplys and to off set her balance for her back rigging.
>>34077945
For a second I thought the ear implant was an augmented jew nose.
>>34088347
Mind control rays are horrifically inefficient. Government control dollars streamline the process wonderfully.
>>34086228
>implying I haven't already embraced my inner spooky skellytom
>>34071994
Never, see this guy>>34084180
"You" aren't meat, you are a thing meat does.
>>34086448
Not only are skeletons real, they comprise all of reality.
The universe is the skeleton of a quantum instabilitiy. A star is the skeleton of a nebula. An infant is the skeleton of a pregnancy. Our bodies are made from the skeletons of stars, and when we die our bodies will become skeletons once more. The dirt will be the skeleton of our skeletons, which will feed the plants that are dirt skeletons.
You see, life and death revolve around skeletons. Skeletons we have always been, skeletons we are, and skeletons we will be.
>>34086228
But what about invertebrates!?
>>34088347
>resent
At least you could get yourself an onboard semanticweb 3.0 spellchecker. It's recent. I've seen this a few times recently and I hope it's not becoming another of those commonly-accepted misspellings like 'loose' for 'lose'.
>>34090149
Why do you think we fear them? They are skeletons that force poor insects and crustaceans to move for them, and try to poison us and shit.
>>34071821
Hate to tell you this but disembodiment of a brain will still rob you of some of your personality. A great deal of what affects your mood and regulates your general state of being comes from feedback loops from your body.
A brain transplanted into a robotic shell is going to either need whole sections of it lanced and replaced with cybernetic versions that can artificially stimulate the same sensations, or a whole stock of chemicals to regulate those feelings. Either way, though, some AI inside your new shiny robot body is regulating most things that affect your mood. Your libido, your ability to feel happy or sad or angry... All that would be on hard disk.
>>34083853
>business of morals and ethics
Already pointed out, but materialism being correct or incorrect doesn't rest on whether we find it palatable or not. I don't feel this is the case, though, because...
>personhood is fundamentally illusory
Why does materialism say personhood is fundamentally illusory? It says a person is a result of a complex series of physical interactions. The outcome of those interactions is what we call a person, just as the outcome of the interactions of a series of dyes smeared on a canvas is what we call a painting.
A person is real. They're just physical. This seems self-evident to me. Similarly...
>no such thing as "an other"
See above. Other people exist just as paintings exist. They're features of reality that we interact with and, in the case of people, hopefully feel compassion for.
>A human being has no more value than a rock
Value is subjective anyway. If you deny that a material entity can hold subjective opinions, this is a moot point. If we hold materialism true, though, clearly they can.
Again, there's no reason to call the existence of a being illusory because clearly we perceive it; that's what consciousness is. It's simply that selfhood arises from a series of complicated processes, rather than some ineffable substance.
Short version: Bullshit.
The rest of your babble, I can't comment on because it's all opinion.
>>34071117
Yey, transhumanism wankery...hooray!
>>34071117
>There are people on this very board, that are so obsolete in their quest for physical failures that they don't seek the great pure accession to multidimensional, sentient pillars of salt.
>>34078264
Would the people who make the cyber arms even let you NOT?
Seriously?
>>34079914
Fine, replace everything else. Then just stick that bit in preservatives so it doesn't decompose, and boom, you're immortal.
>>34078314
There's only one part of your brain that isn't "killed" yearly, and that part could be simply left unharmed as all the other neurons are replaced, so that they remain compatible with your new body parts.
>>34091500
>>34092006
No, I type entirely in gooblegak.
Sorry it tickled your autism.
You've undoubtedly heard over and over again about what an absurdly complex entity the human brain is. But a new breakthrough by Japanese and German scientists might finally drive the point home. Taking advantage of the almost 83,000 processors of one of the world's most powerful supercomputers, the team was able to mimic just one percent of one second's worth of human brain activity—and even that took 40 minutes.
>http://gizmodo.com/an-83-000-processor-supercomputer-only-matched-one-perc-1045026757
>>34092217
One day you will pass that English class.
>>34092363
>"If petascale computers like the K computer are capable of representing 1 percent of the network of a human brain today, then we know that simulating the whole brain at the level of the individual nerve cell and its synapses will be possible with exascale computers hopefully available within the next decade," Markus Diesmann of the Institute of Neuroscience and Medicine at Germany's Forschungszentrum Julich said in the release.
>>34092363
In related news. Ibm is coming out with a brain-like chip.
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/187612-ibm-cracks-open-a-new-era-of-computing-with-brain-like-chip-4096-cores-1-million-neurons-5-4-billion-transistors
>>34092774
calling it now; IBM is gonna cause cyberpunk to become reality first
and sure i wouldn't mind being a complete robot, wife and kids are dead. not like my superiors are gonna let me go back to being dead after killing myself. apparently i'm more needed then i thought.
sad but hell if that isn't a character
Anyone else want a gundick?
>>34071261
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REuNQvcN8tg
>>34097345
If it's IBM or any other megacorp precursor, it's not gonna be the punk part. The punk part comes about through millions of dissatisfied youths hacking crazy shit onto themselves and fucking over the status quo. thisiswhatpunksactuallybelieve.png
>>34071994
The point at which reverting or removing the changed portions becomes fatal.
>>34098811
ohh, i see now
I'm 100% down with prosthetics, cyborgs, and full-on Transies, up unto the ones that think they can live forever by uploading their memories/though patterns/etc into a robot; the ones that don't understand that that would just make a copy of them and that they're still going to die in their flesh-brain.
Why is it people always go on about how the machine is so much better than the organic?
Sure, the machine does some cool things, but organics do some cool things too. It's best to have machines do the things they specialize on, and let organics do the things THEY specialize on.
In short: Cyborgization is just one step of an effective creature creation. It needs to be bio-augmented as well.
And if it can't make more of itself, well, then just throw that right out. All my things need full self production abilities and microfoundries.
>>34099103
I want biotech for two things only; sensory augmentation and integrated electronic interface. I don't care about roboarms that could lift a car or an enhanced liver that let's me drink by the keg. I just want enhanced vision and the ability to carry and play my music collection hands free from a chip in my head.
>>34071117
Can I be a sexy robot with D-cups of justice?
>>34099103
>All my things need full self production abilities and microfoundries.
Is that your fetish?
>>34099399
I just want myself some nice regeneration. Which cybernetics does NOTHING for.
I've got so many chronic illnesses, getting a cybernetic who's primary flaw is "needs to be repaired if damaged" is just asking for more chronic problems.
>>34099504
>>34099504
I'm sorry anon, but things that can make more of themselves are just the most attractive possible.
I am not even bothering with a race that is the "one true pinnacle" if it can't make more of itself.
>>34099542
Self healing metal.
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/168382-mit-self-healing-metal-fixes-tiny-flaws
>>34099662
Yeah, that's more of a self-binding material, not something that actively repairs itself.
>>34099606
Thing is you don't need bio matter to replicate.
>>34099688
Yes but It shows it's not from the realm of possibility to have machines that repair themselves one day.
>>34099707
Nah, but you don't NOT need bio matter either. And it's already got fully functional micro-foundries we can hijack.
Really, if you can make people who's wombs also cyber augment babies, it'd be ideal.
>>34099730
And it's within the realm of possibility for organics and machines to be goddamn indistinguishable by the time that happens, rendering the point moot.
NOW, though, there's serious weight to the "use both!" school.
>>34099755
>rendering the point moot.
Well if organics and machines were goddamn indistinguishable, It would mean cybernetics had regeneration properties.
>>34099886
Yeah. Eventually nanites or whatever science fiction bullshit you want to pull out give robots regeneration, and organics super strength and modularity. Hence the moot point part.
>>34099886
>>34099911
Wait are you talking about the organic vs non organic war?
>>34099977
It's monkey.
>>34100002
no? just comparative design advantages.
In the shot term, biological things have the advantage over mechanical things in regeneration and general flexibility, wheras mechanical have the benefit in strength and modularity.
In the distant future who cares about the difference, since everyone's made of a mix of nanites, metal, meat, and bacterial chemistry forges.
>>34099911
I prefer science fiction monkeyshit.
![2-artificial-limbs-flex-foot-carbon-660[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/IPxViqp.jpg "2-artificial-limbs-flex-foot-carbon-660[1].jpg")
To everyone arguing in favor of cybernetic augmentation:
There already exist prosthetic limbs that can outperform the "real thing".
Image related have been banned from track and field events for that very reason.
Why haven't you cut off your legs so you can replace them with "superior" metal?
>>34078342
Kind of sad when Rifts seems more practical.
Maybe they were trying to ape eclipse phase.
I don't actually have anything to contribute to this thread except for this picture.
>>34100603
Those are only good for running forward in a straight line on a regular field. Lacks all the flexibility of a real leg and foot.
>>34100603
Because they're only "superior" for one specific thing - distance or speed running. They aren't superior for day to day life, for balance, they don't (yet) provide any sensation (though that technology exists, and is awesome).
In order for it to be "Superior" to my current part, it must give me all of the benefits, and fewer or less severe drawbacks.
>>34099755
Hell, we have self-repairing plastics already - entirely a chemical process, no guidance; when the inner area is exposed to oxygen, it forms its own repairing seal.
>>34101073
Most advertised "self repairing" things are actually just high in durability, as if they sustain enough damage they stop self repairing.
There's no actual REPLENISHMENT system there to replace and reform things that were lost.
You lose prime ki generation real estate if you remove even a little bit of it.
>>34101104
>as if they sustain enough damage they stop self repairing
Shit, man, so do I. :P
That being said, true. I'm just pointing to one interesting technology that was moving in the direction in which we're talking.
I'd exchange my eyes first thing.
Then a hand or arm. Legs are unnecessary. Torsos and heads get convoluted. Voice change is tempting. What the hell do i need the cybernetic lips for anyways?
>>34101200
>Shit, man, so do I. :P
Pull out a finger-nail right now. Down to the quick.
It'll soon grow back in the original shape that it was
You removed the entire node of the keratinous substance from your finger and yet it's back from complete removal/destruction.
That is an entirely different function and form beyond what "Self-healing" metals and plastics are achieving or even aiming towards.
Plus self-healing wires and other materials take up so much additional mass and are extremely fragile in other ways, being mostly comprised out of fluid metals and soft polymers that are much less durable then even skin, flesh, and bone. It would be comparable to getting a large gouge down your arm then bleeding out half of your nervous system.
>>34101438
Hell while we're at it, cut off your entire arm too.
>>34101473
Nobody ever said humans have perfect self regeneration.
Just that they actually HAVE a healing and replenishment mechanism, wheras "self-repairing" materials do not.
You're damn right I'd rather keep my body than upgrade to super death jesus 40k.
My Mk. 1 arm's had hundreds of thousands of years of R&D, and the cells that make it up millions. It can't be pushed so hard it breaks intentionally, and if I do manage to break it it'll fix itself as long as I set it properly and give it time to heal. My arm doesn't pop a vein in day to day operation and then have to go into the shop to the tune of money out of my pocket and a rising insurance premium.
My arm is also my own, completely, and was created by the most free, open and non-biased development method there is. My arm doesn't have any ticking time bombs built into it to keep me toeing the line; no security backdoors that would let anybody with a mind for it and training or a wad of cash punch me in the face or strangle me.
My arm self improves all on its own, with just plain old exercise. No expensive labor and replacement parts, and no calibration for the new power range. My arm doesn't glitch out, and takes a literal lifespan (if that) to suffer from degrading neural contacts - and at that point I have bigger problems.
My arm isn't a solid mass of metal and ceramics that transmits any existing external cold straight into my core.
My arm will never run out of batteries, fuel, or require painful anchor points to be attached to my bones.
>>34101665
You've got gangrene, Dalton. I'm sorry - we're going to have to amputate.
>>34101665
>my arm doesn't glitch out
Fuck you, human arms glitch out all the damn time.
Mine is CURRENTLY building bone spikes that are jabbing into my nerves rendering my right arm inoperable over time due to a bug in the bone construction subroutines.
>>34101518
Parts of us can heal.
Vital organs, nerves, and muscle tissue don't readily grow back and need intense medical care when they are damaged.
The human body is nice but your milage varies.
>>34101665
You just listed a bunch of contradictions.
>>34101742
Hence why my #1 upgrade desire is "refurbished healing systems".
>>34101665
>Can't break his own arms.
You got pussy arms.
>>34101665
Your arms have a need for fuel though. You need water every day, and food every thirty, and that's at the least. also you have a third fuel you need. air. dumbass. and you need a new full tank of that every three minutes. and thats stretching it.
>>34101665
>no anchor points
you can get painful steel nails in them if your wonder arms ever brake though
>>34102013
Hey now, it may be restrictive, but our air-based fueling system is fucking awesome.
We generate SO much fucking energy out of some gas that's free as cheap over most of the planet. It's a fucking amazing utility.
So would you still have a human shape or something different?
>>34102658
Anything like that will require years for your brain to adjust. I mean, just look at people who have hand transplants after a length of time without them your brain reallocates those neurons and requires time to readjust. That's just with a hand, and the only reason that works is because it's falling back on what you have there by default.
Any massive bodily change would have lots of unknown effects on your brain and who knows if you'll ever fully adjust to have the fine motor control you'd need to perform delicate tasks with it?
>>34102798
That wouldn't stop people. Myself I probably stay humanoid.
I'd be alright with cybernetics that don't alter my arms/upper torso/face bits, as well as cybernetic organs to the extent that they can act as perfect replicas. Everything else I'm too attached to. I take a certain joy in feeling things with my own biological meat mitts and appreciating sensory input with my fleshy face organs, flawed as they might be.
>>34088347
They put DRM in things that the user could easily copy. DRM in a cyborg arm makes about as much sense as DRM in a microwave oven.
I love all the assumptions doomsayerfags are making.
>B-but what if?!?
As if it's not optional. If it isn't optional, then it having security vulnerabilities is the least of your worries and not liking it won't stop it from happening to you.
The only rational option is to embrace it or be indifferent. Fearing it is absolute stupidity.
>>34102069
Change the arm, gotta change the shoulder.
Cange the shoulder, change the back and spine.
Change the back and spine, change the legs, the other arm.
This is retarded. Enhance what is already there, sure.
Change everything just for no reason? Nope.
>>34103193
Depends on the weight* of the materials.
>>34102658
so if you are now an octopus robot with a human brain inside it what would you do for fun? You cant partake in human activities because you are an octopus
>>34103439
You could manage as long as you were roughly human sized and you had something resembling hands. It's when you start going for the jet propelled dragon bodies that you would start to have problems.
>>34102658
I wouldn't mind an octopus form. But I don't really care what form I have.
My chief concern is my final form. Essentially my mind would be uploaded to multiple machines at once, interspersed in the universe at regular spacial intervals so information travels between each individual terminal relatively quickly. Sure, across a large enough distance there will be behavioral 'lag' But given enough time all the information will be more or less synchronized, and by extension, all of them are 'me'. This also conveniently makes me really hard to kill as if you destroy one then the other 'me's will know and attempt to build another terminal in it's place. The only danger I can currently conceive of is a 'virus' going through my network. But that is partially solved by developing my own software and hardware with my increased intelligence and knowledge.
I do not want a hivemind, I want this setup to be my conscious and only my conscious. I do not mind sharing space with others though.
What is the 'point' of all of that? I don't know, what is the 'point' of being alive in the first place?
>>34103591
At the end there I thought you were going to say so you could have sex with yourself.
>>34101518
>>34101473
>>34101438
Christ, guys, you missed the part where I said "That being said, true." I ceded the point. You already won.
>>34103591
Perfect. I could finally accomplish my dream of playing an RPG with myself as the GM and all the players.
>>34104078
A self repairing machine doesn't need to be built from self repairing materials anyway. If the materials can be repaired using a set of external tools, then the machine only needs to know how to use the tools.
>>34078270
I am a completely normal person with no physical or mental problems.
I only fear the passage of time and the decay of my beloved vessel of flesh and bone. Once I am done enjoying this form I would gladly set it aside for a cybernetic one.
