Why the fuck aren't there any 40k general threads when I get on Edition
>Rules databases
https://mega.co.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ
https://kat.cr/warhammer-40k-pdf-library-t9575373.html
>FAQs
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rules-Errata
>40k 7th edition quick reference sheet(s)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef_V6.pdf
>Forgeworld Book index
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index
I haven't played as GK before, but I'm considering trying it. I worked out a list that's not quite 1750 points, but workable at that level. Is something like the following playable?
HQ (either brother-captain or libby), soul glaive
2x 5 man PAGK squads, razorbacks w/lascannons - 370
5 man interceptor squad, hammer, 3 swords, incinerator, teleport homer - 179
5 man interceptor squad, hammer, 3 swords, incinerator, teleport homer - 179
2x Dreadknights, teleporter, sword/fist, heavy psycannon - 410
Something like 5 paladins, apothecary, 2 halberds, 1 hammer, 1 psycannon/halberd - 333
Thinking about something like keeping the paladins in reserve, rushing the interceptors and dreadknights up the board, then deep striking them in near the interceptors.
>>44348746
What type of scrath-built terrain do you guys use?
Our group has made a small redoubt with plasticard trenches and four fighting pits with swap-able Heavy Bolter, TL Heavy Stubber, and Autocannon turrets, and a Quad-Gun on top of the central bunker itself.
Mighty Bulwark, AV14 all around, central bunker can hold 20 models, and fighting pits can hold roughly four dudes + turret and model firing it.
I'd post pics, but it's at the store and used as a centerpiece for many games.
When are the thousand sons coming to HH?
Where can I go to find release dates other than /tg?
>>44349269
>When are the thousand sons coming to HH?
Sometime next year, after the one in Feb.
She needs quite a bit of green stuff work, especially since she doesn't have a neck right now, but my Keeper of Secrets is done as far as plastic goes.
>>44349332
Alt angle.
>>44349332
Too Xenomorph looking for me.
>>44349637
Yeah, it turned out more that way than I initially intended.
Turns out Wraithlords are very Geigerish in a way I didn't notice until the glue was setting.
Still, she looks pretty cool. My biggest regret is the lower claws aren't as well executed as I was aiming for.
I know I asked for some help in the last thread, but I didn't get much. What should I purchase/look into next based on what we've got so far, also, I'm kind of stuck on list building with the new formations.
I split the army with my 2 friends, one has some older units, Kroot, 2 Ethereals and a Gunship/Devilfish, while between my other friend and I we have: 1 Commander, 1 Ethereal, 1 Stormsurge(Still building, Chinamen Resin is a slight challenge to work with), 1 Ghostkeel(Still WIP), 1 Stealth team, 10 Pathfinders(I have 10 more on the way), 1 Riptide(1 more on the way), 1 Hammerhead, 9 Crisis suits(3 of those are the new ones, not built yet), a Broadside(Other friend has an old Broadside) and like 20 or so Fire Warriors.
>>44349061
aaaaanyone want to throw some advice my way? Seems a bit dead tonight.
>>44349061
Use the special detachment in the codex. Maybe drop the transport on one of the PAGK squads, increase the number of marines in it, and have it deep strike.
Or just drop on PAGK squad, and add another interceptor squad to grab objectives. Now you have 1 razorback squad to stay back and hold your deployment squad, 3 interceptor squads jumping around, and 2 dreadknights in your opponents face
>>44349061
Libby is best GK HQ, level 3 psyker is a must, add a storm bolter since he's the only guy without a shooting attack. If you go for sanctic, take the book for almost all the powers.
>razorbacks
they arent that great, every single army that isnt useless bases itself around S7 shooting, whether they realise it or not. Just go with stock rhinos
Interceptors look good, but take a ten man squad and combat squad them
ALWAYS take two guns on dreadknights, you're wasting their potential otherwise
Paladins are giant distracting point sinks. Troop termies are more useful. Avoid, unless you play against kids who shoot everything at an expensive target who is little better than stock termies and costs twice as much for 3/5s of the models
Consider a flyer-at that point level they're common, and otherwise you'll get butt-devestated by anyone running them
But as it is, it looks workable. Add another gun to the baby carriers, take rhinos instead
>>44350433
I dunno about you but everything I've seen in the months after the tau codex indicate players are leaving 40k in droves. Either for 30k or other systems. My whole gaming group disbanded because 40k was getting so ridiculous.
>>44350824
I think yours may be the outlier. Where I'm at we're only getting more people.
>>44350824
>>44351037
It depends on the make up of your meta. Super casual people like my group are fine with the changes. We just house rule around them, like updating Blood Angels to match the Vannila Dex, changing the Wraith Guard Eldar weapons to their old stats etc.
Hey guys I'm wanting to put together a 500 point force to represent a rogue traders private army.
What would require the least ammount of infantry models. IG or Inquisition? For IG It's two 10 man vet squads and a 5 man command right?
Not exactly sure how Inquisitor squads work. Would each individual cost more points in general compared to an IG vet?
I'm kind of just kitbashing the guys together out of my bits box and was just wondering how to arm them. I have enough parts on me to do about 10 guys like pic related and I'm planning on picking up more sets to bulk the army out and make it legal/playable.
Also got a hard on for Sentinels but I don't think that the Inquisitor codex has them or anything I can run them as a count as for.
>>44350814
Ok thanks. Just out of curiosity, why take a 10 man interceptor squad and CS them? Cheaper overall?
I'm thinking with taking terminator troops, dropping a PAGK squad, and some other adjustments I should be able to fit in a storm raven. Would give me some anti tank and anti air as well as another option to transport the terminators in.
>>44352362
you don't have to pay another 10 points for the second sergeant. it also gives you more options. Everyone in 1 squad, two 5 man squads with the 2 incinerators in one and the teleport homer in the other, etc.
Terminators are better troops normal PAGK are too expensive for what they do. Might as well pay the extra 5 PPM for purifiers combat squadded in a rhino or ally drop pod
This thread has now been raided!
For Commorragh!
Oh fuck, they got bolters! RETREAT!
>>44352472
Ah gotcha. Main reason I was considering 2 squads was to maximize the amount of teleport homers for insurance. Can GK get away with just terminator troop squads?
Actually, if I'm taking the strike force detachment I only need one troop anyway.
>>44352594
the main appeal of GK terminatos is relentless psycannons. Now that psycannons are salvo, you want to take them on terminators, not PAGK, to capitalize on the relentless
>>44349799
The long oblong-ish shape of wraith heads will inevitably lend itself to looking very xenomorphish.
That said, some simple green stuff modeling, like say adding some tentacle-like shapes to the back of the head (maybe raised and curved like a scorpion's tail) will help diminish how round and smooth the wraithlord's head is.
Even so, really cool model. Wraithlords always seem to lend themselves to cool conversions, and since it was the mini that led me into the hobby, I always like seeing people do cool stuff to them (no matter how heretical).
Is Commander Coldstar the Tau's best flyer? Hear me out
He fills an HQ slot, or your second required Commander if you want to bring an Ethereal. With a shield Generator he's 170, which puts him above both flyers, but makes him insanely more durable than the 11/10/10 AV. He has 4 wounds to 3 HP and a 4++ so he never needs to jink. He has a twin linked burst cannon which has the ability to pen most flyers and a missile pod which will easily pen most flyers.
Now the Sunshark bomber has a missile pod (5 pts for twin linked) and the vaunted Interceptor Drones, who honestly just have a twin linked ion Cannon at BS5. Technically the same amount of Dakka as Cold Star but good luck getting all that to land on target. Now the Sunshark has a ML and with the new Hunter contingent everyone can share it, but it's fired at BS3. The drones also have interceptor so you've probably already fired them in a desperate bid to protect your flying piece of glass.
Now the Razorshark has a burst cannon and a quad ion turret. Which is an impressive amount of dakka at 8 shots. However these are all at BS3 with no marker lights. Again good luck getting it all to hit.
To be continued...
Let's take the following from the context of the Hunter Contingent RESTRICTIONS: He is prone to just fucking dying from a stray bolter due to grounding tests, you could add FNP to bring him up to 185 and then you're asking yourself why you didn't bring Shadowsun for 135. However you can't bring an Ageis and the vaulted Quad Gun and Skyfire is expensive at 25 points, and you get barely any markerlight help if you've fit it on a low BS unit like a Riptide or an XV88. There's always the Sky Ray Gunship at 115 with its BS4 and Seeker Missile and TWO networked markerlights. Bring 3 for BS5. It's 13/12/10 with jink as well, only need 15 more points for a nasty 3+ jink. However keep in mind Coldstar fulfills the two Commander requirements and an anti air roll. A single Skyray and a naked Commander is 200 points which is more expensive than a FNP Coldstar.
So if you want to use the Hunter Contingent, bring an Ethereal and have an anti air unit Coldstar is the man. He's the best "flyer" the Tau has. However Tau flyers are garbage so he basically won the special Olympics, so congratulations
>>44352362
10 man squad into two 5 man squads gives you two level 1 brotherhood of psykers-you get double WC, as well as a lot more versatility on the tabletop
>>44349061
Drop the razorbacks and the interceptors, replace with rhinos and purifier squads.
>>44353219
Also, paladins are flat out a waste of points, I wouldn't bother.
>>44353285
>mfw my mass Fusion and Riptide large blast IDs Paladins
:^)
>>44353342
Drunk people don't even type like this. 1/10
>>44350824
We have more players for malifaux, infinity and warmahordes than 40k since the ttau book hit.
I cant even get excited about kill team.
>>44348746
Excuse me /tg/. Does the Hatred (and by relation, the Zealot) special rule grant the whole unit re-rolls to hit in the first round of combat or just the model that has it? Is it the same for Preferred Enemy?
>>44353494
Zealot gives it to the unit I know that.
>>44353494
preferred enemy, shrouded, fearless and zealot all apply to the entire unit
>>44353342
Are you okay anon
Do you need a doctor
>>44353494
Please just stop. It's embarrassing to watch.
>>44353550
Fearless does?
>>44353620
yeah if you have, for example, a chaos lord attached to a squad of cultists, you don't have to worry about morale on that unit as long as the Lord is attached to that unit. Also works with zealot.
>>44353620
Yes.
>>44350824
>>44351037
The flgs I play at has been slowly losing 40k players for the past couple years. A big exodus happened when flyers became part of the game. Escalation killed a bunch more. 7th edition brought about half of them back, but then the Necron and Eldar codexes killed what was left of the playerbase.
Now there are maybe half a dozen guys that still play regularly, down from 30+ a four or five years ago when I started playing. Some of the guys still come up to play WM/Hordes and X-Wing mostly. A little bit of Infinity on saturdays..
40k is just dying here as a pick up game.
I hope GW improves the quality of the game so people will come back. I cant even play anymore except once every few months in a pre-arranged game. The few guys still playing are Tau x2, Eldar, Mechanicum, Nids, and a couple more Eldar guys. Its all super competitive and only a couple armies are even painted.
>>44353494
hated doesn't, but zealot does.
>>44353488
kill meme is just mordheim but shittier
and look at how mordheim ended up
>>44353737
To sum up your post
>It's dying here, you're going to have to trust me on this, and therefore it's dying everywhere as well, thus the game sucks, objectively
Does anyone have a full version of Visions of Heresy? The torrents are gone and I can only find a pdf of the first book.
>>44353798
You mean the specialist game getting a new release next year?
Wow, things are looking good for Kill Team.
>>44353494
>>44353550
also stealth, slow and purposeful, stubborn, skilled rider, move through cover, night vision, and some others too
>>44353801
That guy never said that the game was dying anywhere other than in his area. Fuck off, shitposter.
>>44353737
Well, near me its picking up for the first time in years, so its almost like natural changes in the playerbase are occuring
>>44353737
I got into the hobby exactly 1 week before 7th edition came out, and now the state of the game really saddens me. There's exactly 3 40k players in my area. Normally I would say 4, but the Eldar player behaves exactly like an eldar fucking would in real life, so he doesn't count.
I've been playing against the same 3 people for a whole year. Of course a month ago I found out that there's like 20 other 40k gamers near NASJAX. BUT THEY ONLY SHOW UP FOR TOURNAMENTS. Which means I only ever get to see them once a year.
I feel your pain man. Jacksonville is fucking dead for 40k
>>44353835
Actually...
>I hope GW improves the quality of the game so people will come back.
This does not imply his area, it also implies that the game is so bad that it needs to be improved so much to improve the situation.
Sorry my view doesn't match yours, doesn't make me a shitposter.
>>44353835
the guy literally say "improve the quality", which is an objective statement, he then goes "for people to come back", therefore, my default, it isn't just about his area.
had he gone "make changes that my group agree with, they might come back", that'd be fine, but he's implying that the "quality" (a relative and stupid term for a GW product) is so bad that players are dropping everywhere, not just where he is
thus he is implying that improves need to be made in order to stop the leaks of players, when this is anecdotal evidence at best and a lie at worst.
>>44352539
It's incredibly sad how that last statement is so truth.
>>44353817
It's strange that AoS stats would be great for killteam and necromunda stile games, but ofcurse without the pre determined hit stats.
>>44354035
Since GW is bringing back all the old specialist games, we'll see.
AoS system is great if you want a game, but it just isn't balanced, yes, it can be more balanced than 40k and WHFB ever was, but that takes effort or agreeing to use some communities point system.
I'm hoping for Necromunda mostly.
I've recently grabbed a box space yiff to start playing. My friends and I are going to start playing with 800pts and expend from there. Mostly I,m looking for advice from /tg/. I should be facing primarily Tau, my friends are big anime fans.
Warriors of the Fang
>Combined Arms Detachment
800pts
=HQ=
Wolf lord
>Runic armour
>Jump pack
>Two wolf claws
170pts
=Troops=
Grey hunters x5
>WGPL, combi-plasma
>plasmagun
>CCWx5
115pts
Grey hunters x5
>WGPL, combi-plasma
>plasmagun
>CCWx5
115pts
Grey hunters x5
>WGPL, combi-melta, melta bombs
>meltagun
>CCWx5
>drop pod
150pts
=Fast attack=
Skyclaws x5
>WGPL, storm shield, melta bombs
110pts
=Heavy support=
Long fangs x5
>missile launcher x3
>lascannon
140pts
Plan is to old obj with plasma squads, Threaten the big suits with melta. Counter assault ds suits with jump packs or tie up range. I'm choosing to pay for CCW to get add that versatility that will allow them to tie up shooty units in cc or get those extra wounds against choppy ones. Good idea? bad? why? how to improve?
>>44354089
I'll wait for 3-4th edition of AoS to see if their rules become decent and not a shopping fest.
>>44353145
I need pictures of battle reports anon, talk is cheap. Cold hard facts and models on tables.
>>44353145
>it looks cool
Main reason.
>>44354313
At 800 points, objective games are less important, since it's possible to just grab anything on your side and sit on them. This leads to getting shot to shit-against Tau, you're fucked. Against Assaulty armies like orks, you'd have a slightly better chance, but Tau outshoot everything. I don't know what kinda stuff is in the Yiff box, but i do know that some variety of cavalry is your best hope against most varieties of Tau-get some furballs up and in their face, tie up their support units, and try to either psyker or just plain smash face against the big suits. I think you have some HQ variety that can yiff its way up the board on wolfback, try that to smack about some broadsides. It'll be better than a jump pack. Also, learn to format your lists, my eyes are crying
>>44354331
Aye, I'm sure they'll add points at a later date. They did for WHFB.
>>44354606
If they add point values and generally make the game playable without house ruling then I would actually probably pick it up. Some of the Chaos stuff looks fukkin sweet.
>>44354313
>assault against tau
>7ed
You lose.
>>44354417
I'll be sure to record my findings. I'll be using him a lot in my semi diverse meta.
>>44354454
It does look amazing. I'm sure many people will play it Counts As.
>>44354651
Let the boy dream.
>>44354565
>I don't know what kinda stuff is in the Yiff box
1 wolf lord
5 sky claws
5 long fangs
20 blood claws/grey hunters/wolf guard
I got a box of vanilla tactical squad to kitbash more guys and get special weapon bits (wolf packs only have the plasma)
>Also, learn to format your lists, my eyes are crying
what would be a better formatting? you makes me feel like I don't lurk enough
>>44354651
>Anything against Tau
You lose.
>>44354651
Dirge Casters solve this problem wonderfully.
>>44354757
OK, you're gonna get fucked dry by the blue fishface pulse fire almost as bad as by tricksy elfdar D. Get some more mobility, don't try shooting them just get stuck in. As soon as possible get some critters, either wolves or Wolf Cavalry. You will get punished by overwatch, so expect heavy losses-you won't manage to win on objectives unless your friends are drooling retards, Tau are really good atm. Get stuck in ASAP, get some warm, furry bodies on the field, read up on how cavalry works.
>>44354820
Its 7th ed anon, overwatch is the least of your problems.
>>44354820
>implying chaos can get anywhere near Tau these days
You're adorable.
>>44354632
The Khorne stuff are great Zerker stand ins. The others are cool Khorne Cultists.
The new Varangard seem to be the closest to an Undivided unit I've seen.
It's a fun PUG, but it has no balance. The fact I can wipe the floor with every army bar one with Nagash as Seraphon/Lizardmen by abusing certain units makes it silly.
>mfw the damn tau beat my cqc army with ws3 flailing around
>>44354965
Immanuel Kant would have a field day with the 40K setting.
I think it'll be fine against wolfs.
Tau Empire (800/800pt.)
Primary Detachment
Retaliation Cadre
Commander (137pt.)
Crisis battlesuit; Twin-linked missile pod; Drone controller; Marker Drone (x2);
XV8 Crisis Battlesuits (156pt.)
3x - Shas'ui (52pt.); Crisis battlesuit; Plasma rifle (x2);
XV8 Crisis Battlesuits (156pt.)
3x - Shas'ui (52pt.); Crisis battlesuit; Plasma rifle (x2);
XV8 Crisis Battlesuits (66pt.)
1x - Shas'ui (66pt.); Crisis battlesuit; Twin-linked missile pod; Marker Drone (x2);
XV88 Broadside Battlesuits (65pt.)
1x - Broadside Shas'ui (65pt.); Broadside battlesuit; Twin-linked high-yield missile pod; Twin-linked smart missile system;
XV104 Riptide battlesuits (220pt.)
1x - Riptide Shas'vre (220pt.); Riptide battlesuit; Nova reactor; Riptide shield generator; Ion accelerator; Twin-linked plasma rifle; Stimulant injector
>>44354838
So TWC, what about dread with shield? Cav can't be the only good unit in the codex
>>44354946
Tau player could be clinically retarded.
You know, just standing still, forgetting Supporting Fire and other rules...?
>>44354993
His moral stuff would be interesting. Morality of the Imperium especially.
Also, I used to know shit loads about theologians, philosphers and stuff, but head injury made me forget it all. I can't really learn or retain information if it isn't critical.
I remember doing exams without knowing about this long standing brain damage and I was writing shit about morality or something, ended up quoting a line from Father fucking Ted.
>>44355003
Tau excel at popping anything with AV. Leave Bjorn at home.
>>44355003
what >>44355064 said, dreadnoughts are alright but Tau are good against vehicles. Play what you have models for and enjoy it, but be prepared to lose a lot. Wolves will be good to tie up random units and stop them from filling you full of holes until you can get close enough to beat their face in
>>44355003
Dread with Shield is great, it's a Distration Carnifex, but a lot harder to kill. It forces people out of position to kill you.
Long Fangs are great as always.
Their Tacticals are better melee troops in general (+1A even if they're charged due to Counter-Attack +1A base anyway, so 3A when charged each is great, only Blood Angels beat them and that's only if they charge and use a formation, so not great....).
Termy Sergeants for squads.
Their flyers are the best in the game in my eyes. Literally have a S8 weapon which can instant kill MC's and below iirc.
Do you anons have any idea what the 40K scene is like in Albuquerque?
Are space wolves still a decent army?
>>44355180
They're currently Marines+ at this point. Imagine Codex: Space Marines, but played right are 3x as powerful in melee, while still remaining rock solid at shooting.
>>44355180
with TWC spam, they're ok
>>44355180
Better than marines in basic, but no good formations to abuse like marines/crons/tau. Basically, stronger in casual games, weaker in tournies
>>44349182
my flgs has this awesome, modular orky fort
>>44354946
Scout, Noise Marines in Rhinos, and massed cultists are a surprisingly effective thing if you're not playing on a completely open tabletop or you're not an idiot.
For the record, the Tau player isn't an idiot, but he's not great either. He keeps forgetting to watch his flanks and prioritize the targets that are headed right for him instead of the biggest target on the field (which would be my Defiler) and he consistently lets my Cultists get close because "they're not that dangerous."
>>44352289
hey Anon! I am working on a similar project, actually pretty much the same: a small rogue-trader warband. I decided to take base the army on codex:inquisition, because it's very flexible regarding the individual models.
you can do "naked" acolytes at 4pts/model - up to 64pts/model pseudo-space marines in power armor, storm shield and power-fist... an IG-Vet equivalent (carapace armour + hotshot lasgun) comes at 13 pts/model. In addition, you have access to all those specialists, just take a look at the codex.
>>44349182
>>44355231
and this is a kitchen table game with my terrain, a decent amount of aquarium scenery is the right scale and a brown/green wash to the fake plants works wonders
>>44355195
That's good I just bought 5 boxes of twc
>>44355098
>Long Fangs are great as always.
Yeah they look great, I'm hoping the load out isn't too retard.
>Termy Sergeants for squads.
I can't wait to get my hand on a bax of terminator to upgrade the list.
Why the fuck is this thread dead.
>>44355538
because it's 2AM on christmas eve?
>>44355613
What the fuck does Christmas eve have to do with anything.
>>44355636
People visiting family with no easy access to /tg/? Going into food comas from all the ham/turkey/fruitcake/stuffing/etc.?
>>44355677
I'll give you the first one, however I doubt we are the only two people with wifi/data in the entire US considering its fucking everywhere. And that doesn't explain the lack of our buddies across the pond.
Who eats that shit the day before Christmas Eve
>>44355729
It's just not time for "talking bout plastic men" on the internet, it's "come sit with granny and talk to her about work/whatever". Watching TV and shit.
Not me thou. ;_;
>>44355729
Man, I've got 3 different Christmas things to attend. I did one tonight, one Christmas Day early, and one Christmas Day late. Extended family makes the holidays a chore. But I did get a Betrayal at Calth box set so I'm still peachy.
>>44355770
>extended family
Uhg don't remind me. Mine make the Primarchs look sane.
>>44355763
It's OK anon. You have us.
>>44355830
Thanks anon :3
I have people, it's just... difficult being a bed ridden fuck who has to live in as cold as room as possible to stop me overheating.. and lots of other sheeeet.
Either way, talking bout plastic men will be all the better when you open your prezzies to see a brand new whatever.
Also, isn't Corax suppose to be out tomorrow?
>>44355843
It seems Nurgle has blessed you.
I'm either getting Farsight or The Swarmlord and maybe some other filler units.
>>44349182
Rest of picture
>>44355867
Nurgle can suck a dick, he favours myself and my mother too much. Mother has had so much bad shit happen to her I'm actually worried Nurgle does exist.
Swarmlord is boss, shame he's meh. Still kills Mephy in CQC.
>giving your Chief Librarian no Iron Halo and no Terminator Armour
Still makes me cry.
This is the thing, we all know it's Corax, looks like it won't be out till like... 27?
>>44355935
I preferred the original when it went
>My penis destroys everything I love
>>44355937
Oh new Primarchs. My Blood Angels friend is going to be ass mad.
The Swarmlord is good, but he needs his expensive ass Tyrant Guard and you'll kit them out with crushing claws and all.
Farsight can pretty much act on his own. Give him a whipping boy and Brightsword and he becomes a rape train. And if he dies Oh well, he's only a 165 point model.
>>44356008
Why would he be ass mad? Sanguinius will get his rules and model soon enough. Next book will give Blood Angels special units (which, if I remember, use the same unique weaponry as Salamanders, THANKS FORGEWORLD!) and rules, but no unique characters.
That'll be at a later date. Sanguinius will be out for Signus Prime, which... err.... Is that before or after Burning of Prospero? I assume it'll be the start of the 3rd trilogy of books, or in there somewhere.
You know what he'll be, WS8 with some shitty sword and all his points wasted on making him flying like Corax. If he doesn't have ML2 I'm going to rage.
Are the 6 Ork clans the only clans in existence?
By this I mean, are they the equivalent of the Legions or can I make my own?
I like fluff, I guess.
>>44356081
>Next book will give Blood Angels special units
No, only legion rules/RoW
>(which, if I remember, use the same unique weaponry as Salamanders, THANKS FORGEWORLD!)
What? This is b8 right? You got me you stupid faggot, gr8/b8.
>>44356081
>Sanguinius will get his rules and model soon enough
>implying he wont just be the base for an updated horus model
>>44355937
Corax? Why not Sanguinus?
>>44356173
those aren't angel wings
>>44356164
Too soon, heretic. Too soon.
>>44356099
There are tons of different ork clans, those are just the biggest and/or most well known. Fluff away
>>44356190
Thanks, boss.
>>44356173
Because he has a Raven Guard symbol on his armor and mechanical wings you fucking DIPSHIT I'LL FUCKING KILL YOU
Will we ever see another Xenos faction?
Rak'Gol?
Hrud?
Not-shitty dwarven adaptions?
>>44356099
Yes, they're the only clans that the orks have. If you want to do something unique you can go the freeboota route, which lets you do pretty much anything you want, or go into a clans "subclans" which pop in up in the fluff and in homebrews a lot.
For example you could have a speed freakz warboss with no legs after his warbike blew up on him when he fed it some dodgy fuel and now no longer trusts meks, so he cuts about on a giant boar and forces his followers to do the same. Or search up ard biters on the archive, they're death skull lootas that dress up as arbites and konfiskate stuff from the other gitz in their camp.
>>44356248
The resin wing tips are from mechanical wings? Well, if you say so.
>>44356277
They don't even have feathers you moron, they're literally metal blades arranged in a wing pattern.
![post-58475-Morgan-Freeman-hes-right-you-k-9kKd[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Zb9VXLS.jpg "post-58475-Morgan-Freeman-hes-right-you-k-9kKd[1].jpg")
>>44356277
>>44356307
>>by taking a librarius white scars detatchment and adding it to dark angels or thunderwolves these lists become 10x buillshittier.
Why the fuck is this allowed. IoM combinations are getting rediculus?
>>44356379
Gotta keep up with the meta, son :^) otherwise those filthy xenos will win :^) not geedubses fault if you need to buy three whole armies to be competitive :^)
So I can slot in cool detachments like that? Like taking a knights baron court and adding in the raven guard scouts and vanguard deep-strike-the-turn-they-show-up formation? Because if so....That's gorgeous.
>>44356379
>>44356628
Sure, its gorgeous, but unless you play against people who also use those detachments, you will quickly find games becoming rarer and rarer
>>44356379
Honestly, IoM needs an updated allies matrix is all. Dangles shouldn't be above Allies of Convenience with anyone but other Dangles.
>>44356672
Not only does that not fix any of the issues when it comes to imperial allies, but it doesn't even make sense fluff wise. DA are always fighting alongside other marines, guardsmen and SoB at least once (3rd war for armageddon). The codex does not represent the other unforgiven well enough to warrant including those in the discussion either.
The chapters that do have difficulties with other marines have that represented in their rules anyway.
>>44356354
Nah man it's clearly Sanguinius!
>>44356750
Generally considered a melee combatant, and yet is now the 2nd Primarch to actually be using a gun
>>44356750
That fucking Fulgrim hair is back.
>>44356786
>>44356789
At least the dynamic entry pose is cool.
>>44356838
Yeah, I do like that, especially the detail with the crumbling ground under his feet.
With B@C, Corax, and Mor Deythan released looks like I can finally do 30k, just need Dark Shrikes now
>>44352539
>tau city in the background
>captives onboard are blonde bombshells
>>44354965
what army do you play?
>>44356786
What's wrong with a melee unit having some sort of a firearm?
I like his claws. Don't get why more models don't have regular sides hands with their lighting claws. The power fist sized things seem a bit of a waste on most. On something like cataphractii and chaos terminator/raptor style finger claws the larger hands are fine, but if you can have the claws the wrist, then just an enlarged vambrace should do fine.
>>44356883
>he doesnt know archons bring slaves with them on raids to maintain a perpetual atmosphere of being a bad motherfucker
>>44356883
That's clearly capsule corp city.
>>44356883
Since they have Tau and Kroot heads on the pikes, maybe they attacked the city and kidnapped the gue'la residents
>>44354765
haughtyfemaleeldarlaughingintothebackofherhand.jpg
>>44356909
>>44356903
both likely
>>44356750
Pistols aren't specialist weapons, dumbass. You face up rout second tinge ing closing for not g.
>>44357161
The fuck you say about our face up rout?
>HQ
Dakka Flyrant with dual brainleech devourers
Walkrant with Lash&Sword+brainleech devourers in a Tyrannocyte
>Troops
2x min Genestealers with Broodlords
Warriors with Venom cannon
30 Hormagaunts
>Elite
2 Zoanthropes
>Heavy
Carnifex with Crushing Claws
1250 points
This is a list im making for what models i have available, i just ordered the Tyrannocytes and Flyrant. Thoughts for a first-time list?
>>44356164
>Implying Horus and Sanguinius won't be the base for a big E model
>>44357300
>9999 points
>Psyker level 99
>S:D
>T:10
>W:1
>>44357300
>All stats 10
>psyker level 10
>knows all powers from Core rule book
>burning blade
>2+/3++
>Primarch rule
>18'': PE, hatred, rage, rampage, counter attack, FnP, outflank, acute senses, hit and run, adamantium will, relentless, fearless bubble
>some other stuff because fuck your im the emperor
>>44357331
>>44357397
>people thinking da emp will have stats that will make him unbeatable when in reality he was nearly killed by Horus
>>44357435
>horus with all four chaos gods using him as a conduit/puppet
unless black library changed that too since i last checked
Are all the members of a Hive Fleet the same color? I mean does can I fluff myfutureTyranids with my color scheme as members of a known fleet or I have to invent a new one?
>>44352539
Bolters? They have a flamer!
Eagle down, bail out!
>>44357627
You could always fluff them as a splinter fleet from one of the main fleets that changed colouring to adapt in some way.
>>44357627
Can't remember specifically, but in either their 4th or 5th edition codex the painting section contained numerous variant schemes for each of the big 3 hive fleets.
Plus the Nid's whole shtick is hyper-adaptability, so it's pretty easy to think of reasons why they'd be a different color scheme.
>>44357627
>>44357784
4th Ed Codex iirc, had 2 variants for the 3 main Hive Fleets.
3rd Ed Codex had a whole heap of other colour schemes as well, including things like camo colours, purple + green, bright colours, dark colours, all sorts of things.
Could probably take a photo if anyone wants.
>>44358056
Sure, thanks
![[Club music].gif](https://i.imgur.com/G6BbK6q.gif "[Club music].gif")
So, what are the official codex rankings? I know Necrons, Eldar, and Tau are the top dogs, and Orks, CSM, and Nids are at the bottom, but I dunno about the in-between.
>>44358215
That pretty much is the power rankings, high tier, mid tier and low tier. People argue about this and that trying to rate them based on this and that but no one can agree on anything.
>>44358215
Could someone explain to me why CSM are so awful?
Every time I read the codex, I see really good units like all their HQs, Cultists, Plague marines, Noise Marines, Helturkeys, Nurgle Bikers, Chaos Spawn, etc.
I know they don't have a gimmick like orders for IG or Chapter tactics for SM, but does that take them to the bottom of the list?
>>44358215
Top:
Eldar, Necrons, Tau, Space Marines, Ravenwing, WarConvo, 5 Knights, Summoning Spam
Mid: Tyranids, Dark Angels, SkitMech, Space Wolves, KDK, Daemons, IG
Bottom: CSM, Dark Eldar, Blood Angels, SoB, Orks, Grey Knights
>>44358462
Way overcosted units is a big part of it. Paying more but getting less than what Space Marines get.
No Grav
No Centurions
No formations
No tactics
No ATSKNF
No internal or external balance.
Terrible. Heldrakes, Spawn, Cultists, Lords, and Sorcerers are the only units in that book that arent straight up bad, overcosted, or both.
>>44358462
Their stat line isn't actually bad the problem is they pay like double the points for things that other armies get with free add-ons.
>>44358469
>Tyranids mid tier
>>44357435
He couldn't bring his full force on Horus because he still loved Horus.
>>44358511
>flyrant spam
Otherwise they would be low tier.
How bad is the Space Hulk videogame from Steam?
>>44358118
>>44358537
>>44358530
It's stat-for-stat the tabletop game. If you like that you'll like the game. Spess wolf missions are pretty cool as well, you can pretty much take on a genestealer and have a 50/50 chance of winning.
>>44358492
It's not like they could ever get Centurions, from a fluff perspective. Kinda the same thing for Grav.
>>44358551
Pictures are pretty large because I took photos straight off my phone, and I'm only just realising now that I have Mantic Points in 1 photo in a GW thread lol
>>44358563
>What are renegade chapters
If a founding chapter died out, would a successor take on the name?
>>44358590
For Renegades you'd use the Marine codex, not CSM.
>>44358597
Yes, according to "I am slaughter".
>>44358537
>>44358551
Thank you very much, will definitely use it as an help while choosing my scheme
>>44358602
>What are Crimson Slaughter
>What are marks and mutation
>What are battle bros Daemon allies
Ork psychic powers y/n?
>>44358562
Well, right now it's less then 3€ (even with the SW DLC), so I suppose I may try it anyway.
Thanks
>>44358611
No worries. Just shows why I decided to keep this 12 year old Codex, just for these pages alone basically
>>44358616
But none of that is Renegades. Daemons and Marks are Chaos. You can't have it both ways.
>>44358215
Heres a tierlist from September.
1. Eldar – All strong choices, most access to D weapons, excellent formations & psychics.
2. Daemons – Free unit generation, strong psychics, 2++ saves without psychics!
3. Crons – Super durable, excellent formations.
4. DA/SM – Gladius formation is very strong, many free units, grav & psychers are potent.
5. SW/Codex Thunder Wolf – Thunderwolves and Runepriests make deathstars happen.
6. IK – Very strong counters to other top armies + stomp Stomp STOMP!
7. KDK – MSU (many small units) combines with unstoppable free units, Blood Tithe is potent.
8. Tau – Can still draw excellent matchups with very powerful shooting. Markerlights are still a thing.
9. Nids – Heavy flyrant builds are still difficult for many armies to deal with – but sadly hamstrung by weak troops.
10. Skitarri/Mechanicus – Strong initial army core is hampered by need for allies to provide mobility. War Convocation formation can bump then up to top 5.
11. AM – Lots of bodies can’t make up for lack of formations and slightly overcosted units.
12. BA/GK – The Blood Angels are outdated Marines without any of the grav and recent updates. Grey Knights are overcosted and need allies to excel.
13. SoB– Ignore cover IS good, but the lady’s hand me down codex can’t cut the mustard versus the modern plastic armies.
14. Harlies/DEldar – No longer(DE) or never(Harleys) viable as stand alone armies – both of these now exist to ally with their Craftworld cousins.
15. Orks – Mob checks are now hampering the already brittle unreliable army that will routinely run off the table. Morkanaut need an overhaul.
16. CSM – When a codex is taken solely for acess to allies, FW and the absolute cheapest token troops, you have serious problems.
>>44358602
>>44358616
>Units from the CSM codex can choose to use the chapter tactics from the SM codex to represent the founding chapters of the renegade chapters
Y/N?
>>44358642
Army Tier Notes:
1-3 Top Tier: All these armies come to the table with all their tools in their own codex. Any Ally adds more to them but they don’t need them.
4-6 2nd Tier: These armies have tools all in their own books – but get much stronger with Allies/Formations/Friends.
7-9 3rd Tier: These armies need to use their own books or a close ally/formations. They can beat the top ones but have issues with other lists. Still strong for an event and can win.
10-14 – 4th Tier: These armies either NEED to have allies or some kind of combo formation. They find it a lot harder to win as their tools within their codex are either not as good or they need specific ally tools to win (drop pods etc).
15-16 – 5th Tier: These unfortunate books needs to get rebuilt, they either don’t have enough tools to compete versus everything or face too many hard counters.
>>44358640
You're not very smart, are you?
There are chaos chapters who went renegade after the inital legions.
>>44358617
As a psyker fanatic I would give them a solid 5/10
They fulfill their purpose adequately without being exceptional but are marked down for having a completely useless power you could end up rolling.
If you have a weird boy it may be better to go sanctic daemonology for cheesy combos.
>>44358660
This is indeed true, I hadn't thought of that. So would the recent/old difference be a rules thing, or just leave it up to the players?
"Well lads, we're going heretic. Pack up all the drop pods, land speeders, whirlwinds, grav weapons and scouts and sent them back to our progenitor chapter, because we won't be needing them."
>>44358694
well the fluff reason is it's easier to use old legion equipment (not that 30k stuff silly) because newer equipment needs more to maintain and marines are already using scraps of everything in hell. they're kinda like orks in that respect but instead of rust and checker patterns everywhere it's spiky bits, daemons, and 8 pointed stars
>>44358694
Don't forget the apothecaries.
>>44358717
No, Chaos are allowed one Apothecary. If you can beat Fabulous Bill in single combat, you can be the Apothecary.
>>44358492
Noise Marines and Plague Marines are pretty good, too.
>>44358527
You put 5 Knights in top tier, put flyrant spam in "mid" and tyranids codex where it belongs lol
>>44354035
There is nothing wrong in pre determined hit stats. They simply shifted defense from being half from being hard to hit/wound and half from being durable to entirely based on being durable.
And before "skaven can wound dragons on a 3+" yes but if the dragon has a fuckload of wounds, they can easily hurt him but they do way less damage than before.
>>44358694
>be a chaos marine
>gotta go to the iron warriors planet to repair my trust bolter and equipment
>have to brave the fields of iron
>the trenches of paper work
>lose and arm to a daemon
>finally get to the weapons department
>have to beat the clerk marine by armed combat with wrenches
>have to file the paperwork in triplicate
>finally get new bolter
>it's chipped
>>44358837
Easier to just kill a loyalist.
>>44358469
>People still think Sisters are a bottom tier army
>People still judge Sisters without actually having experienced them
>People think Exorcists are the only good unit they have
>mfw people play my Sisters for the first time and expect an easy victory
>>44358469
>tau
>most units bs3
>most units t3/4
>5/5 rifles
>no good flyers
>no psykers
>no sD
>no cc units
>no mass high ap shooting
>top-tier
>>44350230
This guy or a Y'havara Riptide
>>44353737
That's probably why GW are starting 'Battle Brothers'
Introduce a new player and get some money
>>44358893
Here's your reply.
>>44358715
Horus and the primachs didn't think their hersey through did they...
>>44358857
They are decent.
They are just starved of long range capability, plasma equivalents and air-control.
>>44358969
Horus thought he was stronk enough to win, and he was pretty stronk and love was holding Emps back. If it wasn't for the Custode that was also an Imperial Fist terminator and Imperial Army troop, Emps wouldn't have killed Horus.
>>44358893
>No cc units
I thought Crisis suits could take lightsabers?
Now this is a story all about how my life got flip turned upside down, and if you'd like to take a minute just sit down there, I'll tell you how I became the God Emperor of Mankind.
>>44358563
Grav exists in 30k, traitors can take it. Why did that change in 40k?
>>44359041
It's a relic that takes the place of two fusion blasters and risks burning out loosing both ranged and melee profiles for the game.
>>44358893
never gets old huh?
>>44359070
Supply likely.
Same reason they use the low maintenance easily replaced autocannons over assault cannons.
>>44359101
Dark Mechanicum, raiding a Forge world, etc, etc, etc....
It could just as easily be explained how they got Grav, as it is to explain why they dont have Grav. Just another example of GW pissing on CSM.
>>44359070
The Eye of Terror. Living in the Eye, hating each other, daemons wanting you to suffer because making people suffer is fun, and poor maintenance.
>>44359118
Would be if grav was atound when the csm dex was released
>>44359118
chaos isn't getting grav any time soon, but i could see ectoplasma with longer range and s8 ap1 becoming a thing
>>44359125
>grasping at fluff straws to explain GW's shortcomings in design + balance
I get it. "x" is why they dont have Grav.
Could they perhaps get a weapon that fills that role then?
I don't see why it matters they don't get grav. Just play Apoc and throw some spikey bits on an Imperial Devistator squad.
>>44359316
You would think if the dark mechanicum is pushing the boundaries of science.
I bet they're too busy giving their daemon waifus robot bodies.
>>44359125
So you're saying Obliterators should get them, since upkeep doesn't mean SHIT to them?
>>44359351
Because 4chan hates Apoc and anything involving 'make it work'.
>>44359392
Admittedly, it's wishy-washy and stability and clarity is always preferred... But damn man, stop being a bitch nigga.
>>44359378
Oblits need all range weapons and can fire two, three if it didn't move.
R8 MUH Skitarii plz 650
I'm not really used to the puny imperium's method of war let alone mars worshipping weirdos.
Here's my current List:
Skitarii Maniple:
10 Skitarii Vanguard: 3x Plasma Carbines, Taser Goad, Omnispex
10 Skitarii Vanguard: 3x Arc Rifles, Omnispex
10 Skitarii Rangers: 3x Transuranic arquebus
1 Ironstrider Ballistarii: Twing Linked Lascannon
Plan is, Hunker down in terrains until enemies come for me, then, DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA everything.
thoughts?
>>44359592
Personally I'd stick with the Cognis Autocannon over the Lascannon on the Ballistarii. Being able to Snap Fire at BS2 twin-linked gives you a small amount of AA if you run into anyone who brought a Flyer or FMC to such a small game. It's also slightly cheaper, so you can drop another Omnispex into the Rangers. That leaves you with another 10 points, which you can put into making your Warlord (I assume it's the Alpha in the Plasma Cavalier squad) a bit nastier. Grab a Phosphor Blast pistol and replace the Taser Goad with a Power Sword.
So for Christmas tomorrow I am preparing for a paddling against my cousins IG tank list. He runes a Pask Punisher and two executioners, twenty Vets in Chimeras, two artillery (wyvern or basilisk?) some scions in a Taurox Prime.
I have Orks....
I don't play much these days but since he has a fresh army and a table near his place we thought we would get a game in.
I have a green tide (with 10 PK nobs and big boss warboss) and a normal CAD of a painboy, two gretchin, and two small units of Lootas.
This is how I usually run my Orks at 1500 (or trukk boyz) but I am gonna throw out a list of unused models and someone tell me if I should swap stuff out:
KFF Big Mek
2 Weird Boy
2 Battle Wagon
7 Warbikers
9 Deff Koptas
3 Kans
8 Tank Bustas
25 Burnas
6 Trukks
3 Mek Gun
20 StormBoyz and Vulcha
BurnaBomba
9 MegaNobs
As I said we are playing at 1500, he is definitely expecting a Green Tide.
>>44359704
Well I'd go as mekanized as possible if he's expecting a horde. Both battlewagons are going to be really useful when he has very few things (for guard anyway) that can touch their front armour. Outlflanking deffkoptaz will be useful as well for back armour harassment or tying up vet squads.
>>44359704
>Ork Player
>"Well I have all the good ork units at my disposal, or I can ensure each movement phase lasts an hour"
>>44359704
Get everyone inside something, and pray he gets the most unlucky Wyvern rolling in history
>>44359734
So minimal boy squads in trukk, the meganobs in the wagon with the cannon and the bustas in the other?
Wouldn't the bikes be better for flanking then Koptas? or just because rokkits?
Still run my Warboss as HQ or switch to KFF Big Mek and have him ride with my Megas and give KFF to the wagon?
I guess that the Plasma Rifle is the only real choice for secondary Riptide weapon then?
Single shot at a longer range than the fusion blaster, better overwatch if that ever comes up, and there's no way I want to get within 9 inches of something intentionally.
>>44359744
Because measuring the front 10-20 guys then quickly placing all the others behind them takes an hour
>>44359316
Yeah damn GW for not using their secret time machine to add grav the codex in the past.
>>44359704
Sounds like you need to bring ranged anti-armor. That Pask Punisher + double executioner will absolutely destroy a Green Tide if it isnt dealt with swiftly.
If he's also running 2 Wyverns on top of that, he is pretty much running a rock hard counter to you.
>>44359780
Keep the Warboss the HQ for Waaagh, if you can fit it I like Ghaz for running with the Meganobz. I might try keeping the KFF as close to the vehicles but outside of them (I hate wasting the inv bubble)
>>44359784
Yeah, you shouldn't be shooting anything 5/5 helps with, so take your occasional single S6 potshot and like it.
>>44359780
Footslogging won't work at all against wyverns or the BRRRT russ so trukks are near mandatory. Yeah, rokkitz and possibly a power klaw or two if you have the points will work wonders or force him to drag back the vets to protect them. Win/win.
KFF shouldn't be necessary just to give a battlewagon a 5++. A warboss will be more killy for cheaper.
Why is the small one the Wraithlord and the huge one the Wraithknight?
Lords outrank Knights.
>>44359812
Snark on Christmas eve? Anon....
I understand the timeline of CSM codex, and Grav being introduced. I also understand that there have been 2 CSM supplements and half a dozen dataslates for CSM since Grav came out. If GW wanted CSM to be playable they could have shoehorned something (formation)in until they update the book.
Now it appears the CSM codex isnt even getting updated until 2017 or later. If 100% accuracy rating rumor mongers are to be believed.
Oh well, 40k is not about Chaos vs. the Imperium anymore. Its about Xenos.
>>44359704
Honestly wish I could give better advice but I get smashed by guard everytime I play. That punisher is going to eat your trukks alive, so you're kinda fucked either way if it is Wyverns
Why the hell don't Orks have Roks as drop pods, or any reliable deep striking, at all
>>44359784
Riptide is far more mobile than one would think, and being close to vehicles isn't a problem, so fusion is a real option.
Is it good idea to run airborne scions formation and 1 imperial knight at 1500pts ?
>>44350824
Butthurt WAAC faggots who are sad that they picked a wrong faction, and can't reroll without wasting a ton of money.
That is the only kind of players I've seen go. We still get new people in, and we have fun playing games. I am sorry if you and your local group is full of NO-FUN-ALLOWED tournament faggots who are sad that their army can't auto-stomp casuals, but this game is not intended for tournament play, and those who do, houserules it so heavily that you can't really claim to be playing the actual game anymore. Warhammer fantasy was the same deal pre-AoS, and I am honestly of the belief that the horrific change in the rules was to hammer home that point. This is not a try-hard game. Enjoy the models, enjoy the fluff, and have some fun battles with your friends, and stop being this autistic about "muh competitive scene"
>>44358694
Why would CSM have Scouts? It's not like they could give them the Black Carapace.
>>44360009
Leftover organisation and tactical approaches from going renegade.
>>44360030
I dunno, I feel that most Chapters would just cut the dead weight. Scouts are Space Marines in training, they're no use of they can't become full Marines.
>>44360113
>Almost Space Marine
>Dead weight
>no use
I disagree with the entire premise of your assertion.
>>44359820
So I should keep my Lootas, right? I have Twenty.
I know he doesn't run two of the same. They are different artillery .
>a rock hard counter to you.
Yeah found that out when I faced him at 1250 two weeks ago. He took 60 orks in a turn and I conceded.
>>44359823
I have a Ghaz but I never use him, so little so that I forgot to list him in my available models.
Maybe I should put a KFF big mek with my Lootas to keep a save for them?
>>44359833
Thank you.
>>44359920
>That punisher is going to eat your trukks alive
Yeah thats why I gave up on trukk boyz and tried the greentide last time we played. Neither have worked.
>>44360146
Well, they could just take some actual Marines, and make them go full cheeki breeki, a la Night Lords/Raven Guard.
They get Sam Fisher, and they don't have to drag around a bunch of Scouts. But, this is just my opinion about the fictional organization of a fictional group.
>>44360161
>trukk boyz
if they are all in trukks then he can only pop so much at a time. it relay has to be all or nothing, and all trukk seams to go better from what I've seen.
>>44360161
>Your face when your cousin surprises you with an IG tide and Valkyrie spam
>>44360178
>Well, they could just take some actual Marines
limited resources, if they had access to unlimited free marines then yeah you'd be all of the right, but I see no reason to discard perfectly good super-soldiers.
>>44360223
Eh, fair enough, I guess. Wouldn't Power Armor-less marines be a liability in the Warp?
>>44360237
cultists are hardier then we give them credit
>>44360237
Couldn't you just give them power armor?
>>44360313
yes, they just wouldn't be good scouts without a black carapace installed.
>>44360313
They need the Black Carapace, an implant that lets them interface with the armor. And stuff like that is a bit beyond most Warbands.
>>44360261
Cultists die in droves, Chaos Marines just keep several closets full of them.
>>44356709
>Not only does that not fix any of the issues when it comes to imperial allies
It does though, dumbass. Transport, deployment, and OEO changes would fix most Imp ally shenanagins. It also totally makes sense fluffwise, read the fucking Dark Angels codex.
>>44360343
shh anon, we can't be letting the cannon fodder know they're cannon fodder
>>44360161
Same thing happened to me last weekend 800 points on turn 1 before I even moved, I conceded since 400 of the other 1k was in reserve, I think guard are just one of those hard counter armies for us
>>44360374
Cannon fodder? I think you mean the noble warriors of Chaos, hand picked by the Dark Gods themselves.
