I have seen a lot of hate for D&D/PF with good reason. I am kind of sick of the ivory tower design and lack of real playtesting myself.
However haven't seen much in the way of other systems being recommended. Are there any high fantasy RPGs with lots of character creation options and optional rules that would be a good replacement? Preferably with an easily referentiable database that I can use to look things up.
I wouldn't call it "fantasy" but Mutants and Masterminds makes a lot of character concepts that would be unplayable in DnD suddenly usable. Would take a little tweaking to fit a fantasy-based campaign but otherwise works. It even has an online database (d20heroSRD.com) with all of the rules, like you want.
Three main things to warn against ahead of time, in case these would turn you off:
First, wounds and damage work differently than the "Hit Point" rules of DnD and similar games. Instead characters get "wounds" and "bruises" for failing their saves versus damage, which means combat is a little more flavorful, but it also means that anyone can be knocked out with a single bad roll. Some people like that, some people don't.
Second, it doesn't have the goal of character progression that DnD/Pathfinder has. Characters start at Power Level 10 (usually), and they typically stay at that level for the campaign, with XP only letting them buy more options for their character to 'spread out', stat-wise, instead of 'level up'. Again, some people like that design choice, some dislike.
Third, it allows for some pretty balls-to-the-walls shenanigans with powers right off the bat, like running at the speed of sound, or phasing through electrical sockets, or just about any power you can imagine. This is obviously intended to fit a superhero campaign, but it's not far off to make it high, HIGH fantasy instead; just be aware of exactly what your players are capable of before you start planning encounters.
All in all I'd at least give it a thought if you haven't already. Or don't, I'm not your mom.
>>443476634e has no ivory tower, 5e has far less than 3.pfFantasy Craft is OGL I think, I hear that's not badDungeon World kind of bores me, but that's a thing tooThere's always GURPSWHFRP isn't balanced, but it's at least different
>>44348493
M&M feels more like a supers themed generic system with most of the flavor actually coming from descriptors.
>>44348611
"There's Always GURPS" should just be their slogan at this point.
>>44347663
>D&D/Pathfinder being ivory tower
>Lack of 'real' play testing
You huge faggot. The only ivory tower I see is on threads like this where people are shit on for using "lesser" systems by "hardcore" players.
FFS a day doesn't go by without someone saying D&D is shit. And justified or not it's not the D&D players with the "better than thou" attitude.
And play testing? Which game was play tested by tens of thousands of players? Oh wait! It was D&D 5e!
Fucking autists.
>>44347663
13th Age.
>>44349222
It's okay to be retarded, Anon. Just accept it and make peace with it.
>>44349404
Let's leave the retard talk out man. I seen a video of a retard on youtube a few years ago so I have perspective on the retard condition. And another thing, retards don't like being called retarded.
>>44347663
Earthdawn 3rd ed fits most of that, except for the easily-referenced database. The setting is magical post-apocalyptic fantasy. It has a steps table that's confusing as hell at first, but when you really look at the bell curves the dice involved produce, it makes a lot more sense.
>>44347663
GURPS dungeon fantasy is a pretty good option. Lacks the referential database, but has the character and rules options in droves. It's also generally pretty balanced, and despite the memes it's not actually that complicated unless you're trying to use all of the optional rules at once, all the time
>>44348611
>What people hate about Ivory Tower Design
Design clearly making better options and better class than others
>3e has ivory tower
There are clearly better options and better classes than others
>4e has no ivory tower
There are clearly better options and better classes than others
Does this not upset anyone else? Because it was suppose to be the promise land but ended up being the exact same fucking problem. Just packaged differently.
>>44350322
But 4e's "strictly better" isn't usually intentional, or is done to replace something that ended up being shittier than other options (thus, balanced replacement is strictly better than original option).
>>44350369
I see and understand that. But it still results in people picking the wrong (or in this case sometimes Older) options. Then raging about it later because they didn't know at the time.
Try Strike! RPG.
>>44350484
And yet, even the worse options aren't usually bad, just not as good as the newer, better options.
You don't end up with"the wrong kind of game ;^)"situations.
I'm willing to forgive unintentional imbalance.
How good is savage worlds for fantasy? I was thinking of running my next game with it.
>>44350484
Imbalances in 4e were accidental. Imbalances in 3.PF were intentional.
>>44350582
It's okay. Depends on what sort of fantasy you want to do
>>44348611
>Fantasy Craft is OGL I think, I hear that's not bad
You mean it's based on the d20 SRD; OGL is just the content license d20 System is under (but that's mostly just nitpicking).
Fantasy Craft does some interesting things with spellcasting and how it builds up each class' niche. I enjoy it.
Legend's also derived from the d20 System, but is quite divorced from 3.X.
Fantasy Craft is more like D&D in how it's put together than Legend, and Legend's designed for PCs to grow into more mythic characters and the rules assume a setting that has a intertwined mix of magic and technology--sort of like a Final Fantasy setting.
I recommend checking them both out and see how you like the lay of either. Legend's free, but also not feature complete right now. Version 1's on the Rule of Cool website, but 1.1 is stickied on their forums (alongside the revised character sheet).
I would post it, but it's more than 8 MB.
>>44347663
I like high fantasy with RuneQuest 6, and as much as people say it is only for low to mid magic fantasy with gritty realism - if you just run the bonus skill point phase of character creation twice and roll 4d6 drop lowest you have steamrollers that stand heads and shoulders above anything else - but still can get crushed if caught off guard.
Not only that, if they invest in magic it has basically no upper limit - especially animism where you can have 300% in a skill and control elements the size of small mountains. They even talk about how to make sorcery rituals take extra time or people to create magical effects that spread across miles. It's really a setting driven thing.
Even better your PCs play a critical cog in the machine to save the world, and are not just fighting their way through the next level of enemies to grind their way to a capstone level and BBEG. It's a better system for a sandbox and saving the world should be a campaign that takes years in the game world and not days or weeks.
Hell if you want high HP, just allow people to sum their HP for all locations into a single pool. You still have to roll locations when injured and for special effects, but you can take a few blows from a giant and still love to tell the tale.
>>44350961
Fairly standard fantasy, but with flintlock firearms. Simply because having plate armour means that's the tech level.
>>44347663
You literally want 4e with the offline builder.
>>44347663
I hear good things about Iron Kingdoms and 13th Age, but this is completely secondhand.
>>44347663
>However haven't seen much in the way of other systems being recommended.
Have you not been on /tg/ for the past several months?
We get this exact same thread every time.
>>44350843
Originally good intentionally do not fixed final results.
>>44349222
I would agree if casters weren't incredibly overpowered while same classes flail around on the ground
Sure PF and 5E might have had a lot of people playtesting them before they were fully released, but that doesn't eliminate inherent balance issues
>>44351894
Na. I'm with OP.
I see tons of complaints, and no recommendations. WITH the exception of the 40k role playing thread,
>Were you aware TG likes 40k!?
which is in fact a good option, IMO. And mentions of gurps. Which IMO is not that great. And not much else gets mentioned. On occasional sure, but not regularly.
>>44351153
Oh damn, Legend has come along VERY nicely since I first heard of it a couple years ago.
>>44352195
I've only stumbled upon it recently, but I've heard that a few times now.
And 1.1 only came out this month. It's good to see that they're still updating it.
>>44352446
1.1 came out 19 months ago.
Where'd you get the idea it was this month?
