Lorgar in Dembski's First Heretic:
>Thoughtful
>Insightful
>Faithful
>Humble (even when he is in his duel with Corax and Curze saves him)
>Serious
>Idealistic
>Passionate
>Paternal to his sons
Lorgar in Abnett's Know No Fear:
>Volatile in a childish way
>Moustache twirling
>Snarky
>Passive-aggressive
>Selfish sounding
>His lines are capeshit tier to contrast and big up equally as capeshitty goody girlyman's dialogue
What was Abnett thinking?
>>44275208
He wasn't. It's poor Abnett. GW has him tied up in their cellar and they whip him whenever he nods off writing his backlog of ten novels.
>>44275208
Fulgrim in Fulgrim:
>Charismatic
>An excellent strategist and leader
>Near Perfection
>Epic bromance with Ferrus
>Cares for sons deeply
>Spreads culture and art across the worlds he brings into compliance
Fulgrim in Fulgrim:
>Reclusive crackhead
>Terrible negotiator with Ferrus
>Listens to evil Daemon Swords
>Wears more make up than a transvestite whore
>Gives no fucks about Marines and civilians alike
>BUT LOOK AT MY PAINTING, BRAH
Chaos is a hell of a drug.
Abnett where is the next bequin book it was due already Abnett.
Abnett
Hey Abnett can you hear me
>>44275208
Lorgar isn't based though. Your picture is a lie. A LIE.
As for Abnett he was thinking they will buy it anyway.
>>44275208
Whats wrong with his face?
>>44275208
>ADB writes heretics as gud boys
>Abnett writes heretics as assholes
is there a problem?
HH doesn't have a consistent tone or narrative? Whoah, stop the presses.
>>44275390
Abnett's currently busy having cancer IIRC.
i adored how lorgar is so humble and priestly, people spit on him and he bottles it up until he finally cracks and goes on a galactic school shooting, truly the beta uprising resistance fighter killing chad primarchs we can idolize
>>44275452
Source?
>>44275503
>killng chad primarchs
Except like the true beta he is, he never killed any of them.He did get his ass saved from an epic Raven Guard beat down by the loner goth kid that no one likes because "He could tell they were both outsiders."
>>44275668
in all seriousness however he is literally the best primarch there is and the most non-edgy
>>44275767
He literally worships chaos and makes dark rituals how is that the lest edgy.
>>44275503
lorgar gets his ass kicked by every primarch he fights (guilliman kicks the shit out of him in betrayer and thats AFTER getting his power lvl boosted by chaos) and literally cannot open his mouth without getting btfo by whoever he is talking to
>sees ferrus crafting weapons that are literal works of art
>autistically attempts banter
>"i wonder if you are capable of creating something not used for killing, ferrus"
> "i wonder if you are capable of creating anything at all, lorgar"
no wonder he was so into faith he had literally nothing else going for him
>>44275767
Bruh, I'm a heretic and I still know Sanguinius is the best primarch.
>>44275966
What kind of a come-back is that? That's NO U tier shit.
How about he created the Imperial Faith that has kept the Imperium together for 10 millennia.
Ferrus got his head chopped off day 1 of the Heresy and his shitty legion still hasn't done anything 10,000 years later.
They don't even have a named character in the 40k book.
>>44276161
Nah he's a sue.
>>44275767
Are you retarded. At least half of them are less edgy than him. Less obsessive over bullshit, less awkward, etc. The guy fucking takes down half his brothers and the whole imperium because he got scolded by his dad. Prototypical edgelord emo goth spoiled brat.
>>44275208
>>Thoughtful
>>Insightful
>>Faithful
>>Humble
He's literally none of this. He's a blinkered arrogant psychopath who doesn't take no for an answer from anyone and fails to understand his brothers even before turning to chaos. There's even a flashback where he can't hold a two-line conversation with Ferrus without trying to diss him and instantly getting face-melted.
>"One wonders if you are capable of creating anything that is not destructive."
>"One wonders if YOU are capable of creating anything worthwhile at all."
>>44276198
Name one primarch who isn't an edge lord. That's right, you can't.
>>44276262
Russ.
>>44276168
>>44276168
>Ferrus got his head chopped off day 1 of the Heresy and his shitty legion still hasn't done anything 10,000 years later.
and lorgar becomes a demon and "meditates" for 10000 years. probably STILL trying to get over the asshurt of being btfo so often
>>44276161
Guilliman was the best, not even an ultrafag.
>>44276161
Sanguinius was beaten by a literally a third rate greater daemon.
Was going to sell himself to Chaos to save his sons (like Magnus).
He did not trust the Emperor
He was willing to work with Xenos.
No Sanguinius is not the best primarch.
>>44276168
The whole point of the Imperial Creed was to beat Chaos, not by punching it, but by starving it out. Without the belief in the supernatural, without the old stories, the hope was that people would just forget Chaos existed, that daemons were even possible.
But what about the warp? Well, Emps was working on that too - if humans had mastered the webway, they could ditch the warp in the same way the Eldar have.
But what about psykers? Emps didn't much like them either, remember. Without the need for navigators to go through the warp, without the need for astropaths to communicate, eventually psykers could have been bred completely out (possibly?) Or maybe it wasn't really possible, but you can't blame the big E for not thinking big.
Ultimately his plan required his own forces not to know about the power and potential of Chaos - if the primarch and the legions believed in it, not as "well, sometimes the warp be weird, man" but rather as sentient beings who were the enemy - then that would more or less guarantee it would never "go away". The very knowledge of its existence anchors it INTO existence.
Was a bad gamble, really. Might not have mattered if the Emperor was kind of shit at parenting and governing as well; you don't leave the crown prince alone at the front with all the troops while you go back to the capital and shut yourself in your room, no matter HOW important working on your throne might be.
>>44276447
The emperor has been shown as someone you can't trust.
>>44276447
ALSO WHATS THE DEAL WITH THE RED ANGEL
he's hyped up as the bane of the Blood Angels and then all he does is lose to everything.
Meros must be the shittiest host ever or soemthing.
>Lorgar addressing other legions' marines as 'nephew'
Anyone in any BL work:
>Shit
>>44276548
>WHATS THE DEAL WITH THE RED ANGEL
>But Horus, I'm the Red Angel already. People have been calling me that for over two hundred years. Horus? Hooorrrruuuussss!
>Oh shut up already Angron, there's no law that says I can't have two Red Angels on my team. You can both be the Red Angel.
>/whisper I'm gonna fuck you up so bad once I've settle my score with Emps.
>>44275208
it's Abnett
you expecting something that isn't crap from him?
he should only be allowed to write IG and Inquisition
all he does is fuck up when he comes anyway near SMs
fucking perpetuals, turning Imperial Fists into retards with shitty nicknames
>>44276473
Emperor actually seems to be incredibly pro-psyker, the 7th Edition lore book even further reinforces this.
>>44278277
>Perpetuals
Absolutely nothing wrong with them as a concept.
>>44275208
Abnett is overrated, news at 11:00.
>>44278277
But mainly this. He can't write Space Marines for ahit. Much as I like Gaunt's Ghosts and Eisenhorn, Brothers of the Iron Snake and Horus Rising are the most boring 40k books I've read yet.
>>44275366
Went from perfect to perfect.
>>44275208
>>Thoughtful
>>Insightful
>>Faithful
>>Humble
Lorgar?
Lorgar Primarch of the Word Bearers?
We're talking about the same Lorgar?
Because the Lorgar I know is none of those things.
>>44276262
Russ.
>>44276262
Khan
Russ
Sangy
Guilliman
Horus pre-fall
Vulkan
Im sesing a trend here...
>>44276262
Russ
>>44275442
Abnett wrote Horus as a great guy though.
>>44276262
Russ
>>44276315
Lorgar got a pretty sweat deal. He gets to be immortal, and just hang around in his home, jacking off and reading. All those other idiots fight pointless wars and get themselves killed.
>>44276262
Khan
Vulkan
Magnus (to a degree)
Roboute
Sanguinus (to a degree)
Ferrus Manus
Dorn
Corax
Also arguments could be made for the bro-ness of:
Russ
Lion
Mortarion
Perturabo
>>44279261
Same with Perturabo.
Gets to just sit in his tower building stuff all day, the bitter, autistic fuck.
>>44279271
>Pertu ''muh decimation'' rabo
>Not edgy
Aside from that not so much
>>44278277
Who remembers Ultramarines?
Good god that was a shitty movie.
>>44279271
>Corax
>Dorn
>Lion
>Pert
>Morty
?????????
>>44276262
Russ
>>44275208
>worships Chaos
Purge him every day of the week.
>>44275208
He was thinking he would write Lorgar far more accurately than Dembski.
Dembski is far too busy trying to make every chaos marine sympathetic when they're supposed to be collossal arseholes. Lorgar was a fucking twat and that's how he should be portrayed.
>>44280203
Lorgar is an asshole. A sympathetic asshole when he's written well, but still an asshole.
Protip: "evil" doesn't equal "cartoonish supervillain".
>>44276262
Russ.
>>44280203
Christ anon, did you read the same books I did? Because it's not so much about making them sympathetic. It's not like CSM just go have a couple of drinks with their serf friends every other day. It's about nuance and makes them something less retarded than hurrr durr chaos skulls for the skull throne/fapping with barbed wire.
>>44276262
Vulkan. Khan.
>>44276262
Ferrus Manus
He is just, sort of Angry
>>44276262
Almost all of them except Konrad Curze, who is edge personified.
>>44276473
The Emperors plan was basically the only way he could think of to kill the Chaos gods without wiping out humanity.
It was a bad gamble, but there's only one alternative.
His plan for psykers was, after the Chaos gods have starved to nothing, to again reforge humanity into a species that could master the warp like the Old Ones before them.
>>44275208
Lorgar is a fucking red-headed stepchild. No, seriously: NO ONE LIKES LORGAR.
Think about it. Even Magnus gets sick of Lorgar's shit. Kor Phaeron and Erebus despise him, on a certain level. All of The First Heretic is about finding himself.
More, Lorgar hates Guilliman. He really, really loathed him. Until Roboute began to hate him back.
>>44275668
The best part is, Corax has never had a good record. Like, what did we know about Corax before that? He's the guy who cracked open Genetic Engineering For Dummies, and fucked up, before running off crying into the Warp. He's the bookworm of the group.
Then he beats Lorgar's ass. He beat him like a rented mule you'd ride to an ass-whupping. Kurze shows up just to go "Lorgar, you fucking suck."
>>44275390
He's too busy with Marvel's Secret Worlds/Battleworld.
>>44280763
I think Angron gets a bit of respect for him after he bitchslaps Erebus, in a "you're kind of a cunt but you're not all bad" way.
>>44278726
>Absolutely nothing wrong with them as a concept.
And absolutely everything wrong with sticking them in 40k
>>44275208
>BL HH is actually shit with no continuity whatsoever
More news at 11
>you will never be under Argel Tal's command
>you will never share your material shell with the neverborn in holy primordial synergy
>you will never take great pleasure in finally slaughtering ultrasmurf cunts who humiliated your brethren and levelled your father's life work
>you will never see the Urizen's compassionate paternal, yet wearied smile, sensing the universe on his shoulders and the struggle to uncover the secrets of divinity suppressed by the Emperor nestled deep in his heart
>>44275966
Lorgar was specifically told by Fateweaver that he could easily beat Guilliman, but if he did, the Heresy would pretty much end within a few years.
>>44275208
Abnett is a hack, What else is new?
>>44283336
The Heresy ended in a few years when he didn't beat him, too.
>>44283515
But the war hasn't, that was the point. Lorgar was straight up told "You can kill Roboute, and win the respect of your brothers, but it will rally the forces of the emperor and chaos will lose permanently, or you can let him beat you and this war will continue to feed chaos for eternity"
Lorgar was given the chance to play the long game, even at the cost of his personal pride, or win a temporary victory and cause chaos to starve.
>>44275429
Chaos. Not even once.
>>44279235
He wrote him more like a passive-aggressive douche. McNeil made him out to be more of a cool guy, pre-fall.
should i paint Lorgar's armor grey or red?
>>44284647
yes
>>44284647
Both.
Srsly though, I like red version more.
>>44284647
Don't bother, his mini is garbage.
>>44276168
Go home Lorgar, nobody likes you.
Not even Erebus.
Love him or hate him you really gotta respect Lorgar. He went from being the laziest, weakest primarch to orchestrating one of the worst wars the galaxy has ever seen, murderfucking one of the greatest Bloodthirsters, and becoming a serious 1v1 threat. Motherfucker's personal growth is unmatched by any primarch.
>>44275208
>>44275366
>>44275442
>>44275503
>>44276253
>>44276473
>Caring this much about 40k novels.
Any amount of thought put into it is too much, and time you'll never get back. The only point to 40k fiction is to jerk off to the setting some more, if you're not doing that you should be reading real books.
>>44279795
Yeah. The story was shit. Ironically the studio making the movie had pretty good actors and they even made some decent movies beforeI was curious so, before ordering the film I watched something else of their's - the Bionicle film, which to my surprise was actually pretty decent.
I think if GW had given them some money instead of just whoring out their IP to them, they would have actually gotten the greatest way to market their IP to new customers yet.
>>44285568
Or if they had hired a competent writer instead of Abnett.
They could have made it as pretty as they wanted; what made it a terrible movie was the plot.
>>44285460
>if you're not doing that you should be reading real books.
SUCH AS?
>>44285708
>They could have made it as pretty as they wanted
No. Every blade of grass you put in a digital environment costs time to make and the final film will take longer to render. That aside you also need the manpower for that which the company didn't have. I mean it's no coincidence that the planet they were on was barren and covered in fog. Basically means you don't have to spend much time on environment art and speed up rendering too.
>what made it a terrible movie was the plot.
True. There even were some pretty glaring errors when it comes to the lore. Abnett should have written a story that accommodated the studio's financial situation better.In a perfect world somebody else would have written it though.
>>44285769
Literally anything but black library, the setting g is shit and exists to push overpriced plastic shit onto worthless children and manchildren, if you had any sort of future you would not be here, but you are so do the gene pool a favor and have yourself neutered, not that you have much chance of breeding anyway
>>44285877
such as specifically?
>>44285931
How about the Bible
>>44285877
Plz no bully :'(
>>44285877
30k books are excellent mate, calm down.
>>44285827
You're misreading the first half of my post. What I mean is, they could have been given ten times the time and budget they had to make it pretty, and it wouldn't have changed the fact that Abnett wrote a shitty movie and ruined any chances of seeing another 40K movie for a good long while.
>>44286044
>great
Half of them are garbage, and the other half you can skip.
>>44286166
Man, I hate the cheapass 3d artstyle they use for the covers of these books. Why can't they hire a real artists like they did for the new codexes?
>>44286166
are these all you've read?
>>44286491
God knows, covers are getting worse by the book, and that's impressive considering they started with the most horrible washed out 3d cover they found.
>>44275208
ADB is a hack, news at eleven.
>>44286491
>>44286552
??
are you paying for these books? lmfao
>>44286616
>paying
>>44286616
>paying
>>44286051
Then I'm in full agreement.
>>44285568
>the Bionicle film, which to my surprise was actually pretty decent
My bro.
>>44286051
Which is a shame, because I really want to seea Ciaphas Cain movie in the style of the 2003 Clone Wars show
>>44279271
Dorn is literally more edgy than Fulgrim
>>44286974
how did you even misread that
>>44279271
>Magnus
>Dorn
>fucking Corax
>Lion'El Angstismo
>Perturabo
Try again.
>>44287177
Autism isn't edge
>>44287138
Mistook the semicolon for a colon I guess.
>>44287177
Lion isn't edgy, retard.
>>44287639
>>44287376
My bad. I forgot that his descendents are edgy, not the guy himself, since he's been in a coma for the past 10000 years.
>>44287177
They're retarded, but not edgy.
>Black Library
There's your problem.
>>44275208
>Volatile in a childish way
Lorgar was childish
>Stop worshiping me and do your fucking job Lorgar
>Screw you dad I'm gonna worship Chaos now instead of you
>>44276262
Russ
>>44279283
>Lorgar is beta incarnate
>Perturabo is autism incarnate
>Curze is edgy incarnate
>Angron is REEEEEEE incarnate
Lorgar was such a fucking wiener, I bet he couldn't evenget dubs
>>44290269
Magnus was probably the worst and that's saying something considering he's brother to fucktards like Fulgrim, Perturabo and Dorn
>>44275208
Bullshit, in First Heretic Dembski had Lorgar literally foaming at the mouth and spraying his spit on people as he yelled at them. You're trying to paint Lorgar as a misunderstood hero and you're holding The First Heretic up as the correct way to write Lorgar while ignoring the fact that the very same book had scenes where Lorgar is acting like a rabid lunatic. You are pathetic.
>>44285827
>There even were some pretty glaring errors when it comes to the lore.
Not to mention basic logic and consistency. Nevertheless:
https://warosu.org/tg/thread/S13422964#p13424602
>Where the movie was concerned, y'gotta bear in mind just what Dan was asked to do. Codex (or GW and Codex, whatever, fucked if I know - I'll ask next time) basically wanted a default, basic, introductory 'These Are Spess Mehreens' by the numbers deal. And that's what Dan delivered.
>We talk a fair bit, and I remember when he mentioned that. Joking aside, Dan's plots are rarely A to B like that, even when he writes Astartes. But it was one of those moments when he had a specific mandate, if you get me. It had to be what it was, I guess.
>>44281291
Not really, it's basically just certain humans having or being given the innate ability to reincarnate.
i remember how disappointed i was when the movie started and they called xenos "aliens"
>>44286166
>Horus Rising
>Better than False Gods
I mean, I guess if you prefer flat, indistinct characters.
>>44282239
I'm with you, Word Bro
>>44275208
Same character at 2 different times. Once lorgar found out gods are real he became a dick. You can argue the characters that fall to chaos are the only ones with any growth in this series
>>44290777
i think someone hasn't read the book properly
(You)
>>44283470
I don't agree, I like abnett.
>>44283470
>>44286580
You two need to manage your expectations.
If Abnett and ADB are shit then I wonder why you're reading any of the 30k or 40k literature.
>>44275208
ITT: faggots dissect pulp science fiction plots, criticize the writing, and label anything and everything they dont like as 'edgy'.
Some of you retards should link us your novels, short stories, etc. Because they must be literary masterpieces.
>>44275208
Why is ADB so butthurt about the Thousand Sons? First he trashes the whole "Blood Ravens are Thousand Sons" descendants, and then he retcons the Rubric while making his ridiculous Mary Sue for the Abaddon novel.
>>44290151
>describe books in childish greentext
>post idiotic reply
>lean back in chair with smug grin
You're the man anon. Tell all these faggots that their comic books suck.
>>44299940
>green text ad hominems
>make up things absent from post
>act condescending despite doing the same thing that you're criticizing
You're the man, anon. Tell all these faggots that their 4chan posts suck.
>>44299979
>edgy
>special snowflake
>mary sue
There anon. Can I be part of the everything sucks party now?
friends, stop fighting.
The Emperor in any GW/BL/FW work:
>Thoughtful
>Insightful
>Faithful
>Humble
>Serious
>Idealistic
>Passionate
>Paternal to his sons
The Emperor in any ADB work
>Volatile in a childish way
>Terrible, neglectful father
>Moustache twirling
>Snarky
>Passive-aggressive
>Selfish sounding
>His lines are capeshit tier to contrast and big up equally as capeshitty goody Abbadon's dialogue
What was ADB thinking? Why is every father figure in any ADB work depicted negatively, while any feminine figure is an incredibly important waifu figure to his characters?
Abnett is so fucking bad at conveying space marines, vulgarity is one of the worst offences - I imagine marines as highly intelligent demi-gods who speak as if they were from scripture, not entirely but other authors convey this well enough - Abnett makes them talk like common Imperial Guard or close enough
>>44300622
>"I"
keyword right there
>>44301349
And "he" doesn't because he is bad at writing space marines
>>44280763
Angron likes Lorgar.
Their relationship is the only one who seems to have anything closely resembling love.
I didn't see any other primarch trying to save Angrons ass. Not even his father.
Lorgar passed up daemonprince status to save angron.
Fuck all the other primarchs, Thats as close to beyond bro you get.
>>44278277
The perpetual thing with Vulkan was interesting, but a wasted story arc.
Anything to do with human perpetuals is just pure fucking stupidity. The Cabal ruined a lot of the books for me.
>>44300622
I doubt Night Lords, World Eaters and Space Wolves would talk as if they are from scripture. Especially with Night Lords with most of them being gangers and criminals.
>>44280763 #
I like Lorgar and I like the fact that he went out of his way to save Angron. No one seems to remember that sadly and instead shit on him.
>>44300622
Ultramarines or Emperor's Children, sure, they're basically nobility and appreciate all the high minded shit. But World Eaters, Night Lords and such? No way.
>>44276262
Is Alpharius really edgy? He and his legion are in it for themselves but otherwise are essentially the reasonable marines.
>>44303004
>>44302976
Good point.
>>44278277
Oh no space marines, especially pre heresy space marines, aren't necessarily all psycho emotionless monks that allow me to project my waning sense of masculinity on to. God forbid they're interesting.
Go back to your Ultramarines, McNeill
>>44300622
That's why I consider Flight of the Eisenstein my favourite. It's eloquent as fuck.
>>44300622
Why? 30k marines are essentially little better than common soldiers mentally and are closer to Starcraft marines with huge daddy issues.
>>44291419
Yep, it is just an updated version of the Sensei concept which has been always part of 40k.
>>44275390
Fuck that, where is The Warmaster.
>>44278277
I never understood why people hate on Abnett's HH marines. I'd get the hate on Iron Snakes. But even they aren't horribly written, just OP as fuck.
>>44281291
>tripfags having a relevant and thoughtful opinion
>ever
>>44285708
>>44286051
>make a standard action movie about soldiers shooting faggots then have a surprise twist with who is the actual bad guy
>Abnett is allowed just a few changes to reskin it into 40k
What are you expecting from a 40k movie? It has to appeal to those who have only a passing knowledge of 40k, not hardcore fans.
>>44300622
>I imagine
That's the problem right there m8
>>44305352
Space marine fans have this really narrow view of what a space marine can look and act like, which only gets worse over time as it gets more and more exaggerated. It's the same idea as idiots getting mad that commissars don't actually necessarily have to be the gigantic douchebags they're portrayed as on /tg/.
>Le BLAM xD
