![1450281789019[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/bIDi87N.jpg "1450281789019[1].png")
Warhammer Fantasy General, focused on the fluff and Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. 1st and 2nd Edition, but discussion on 3rd Edition and the Tabletop is welcomed... ish.
It would be a shame to break a good trend.
>Previous threads currently archived
>>44108067
>>44147420
>>44208707
>I don't have the books for 2nd Ed
http://khorne.ru/2nd/wfrp_web/
Would appreciate good stable links for 1st and 3rd Ed, just for completion's sake.
>how does career advancement actually work in 2nd edition?
http://i.imgur.com/8qoQOUl.png
http://i.imgur.com/dOOfPa2.png
http://i.imgur.com/jJN6PT9.jpg
Outstanding questions:
>why gnomes?
>how major is the splatbook power creep?
>popular house rules?
End Times and Age of Shitmar need not apply.
This isn't a question unique to Warhammer Roleplay, but getting into it got me wondering, since it's always been a bit murky and hard to handle for me.
How do you handle down-time or timeskipping? WHFRP sometimes deal with some potentially long timespans, which could involve training into a new career, going about your life and so on.
How do you handle it? Do the players take turn, is it a dedicated session between "adventures", and how would that work if you're going pretty much free-roaming? I've always got problems tying it all together, and honestly most of my GM:s has been bad at it too, especially when some players have stuff going on while others don't, potentially making it very uneven in how things play out, nevermind the fact that timeskipping might be appropriate for one character, while another one doesn't really go for it because they're "ready to go".
And I've never seen a good guide on this part for roleplaying games, either.
>>44256831
>Why Gnomes?
Oldhammer was a lot more generic than I think people remember, but theyre essentially just dwarfy-er dwarves that love giving sick burns and play practical jokes on assholes.
>>44257110
Much like 40k took influences from a crazy number of sources of sci-fi, Fantasy took infleunces from a crazy number of.. fantasy.
At the end of the day, it's really "just" Lord of the Rings with shit all over it, and the conflict between Order and Chaos, with european paganism and christiandom sprinkled loosly around it.
But I'm thankful gnomes were axed, honestly. Fucking gnomes.
>>44257344
Eh at least they weren't silly cutsey gnomes they weren't that bad
what are some good starter adventures for a gm and players new to the system?
>>44257783
>what are some good starter adventures for a gm and players new to the system?
I second this question. Would be nice to have a solid adventure, or a series of adventures, or even a full campaign, to get started.
>>44257783
>>44257916
The Ollehander Contract, it's the 1st edition starter adventure in the core rulebook easy to convert to 2nd edition if that's what your playing same goes for "The Enemy Within" Series.
Also if you can find it I find that the 3rd edition starter adventure to be really good as well converting shouldn't be a problem either since you can just use generic npc stats
>>44258354
>The Ollehander Contract
Someone actually uploaded it some threads ago, might as well share it. Attached.
>same goes for "The Enemy Within" Series.
I get that it probably looks different to a veteran, but trying to make sense out of The Enemy Within is a fucking mess. There's multiple different releases, the last and seemingly best actually not being finished, and another one being cut short and rushed towards the end.
Supposedly.
Did anyone ever compile it all into a sequence of scenarios or adventures that makes sense and is the "definitive" version? Because damn.
>>44258641
Uh you mean like the 5 adventure books?
>>44257076
It depends on what's going on during said down time, but to use an example, my group travelled across the ocean to the New World. It was about six months, give or take, so every month we would have a few actions we could do with our crew. I trained the sailors and marines how to repel boarders, drilled them on firing orders, etc. The Skaven in the group was busy below deck making monsters, while our Priest was busy interpreting Manann's will and playing with his pet shark. The end result was some xp for us and the crew and some advancement in what we were trying to achieve. My crew became much more competent, some monsters were a success, and the priest and his shark became best buds.
>>44259861
>Uh you mean like the 5 adventure books?
No, there's several different publications. There's the original 1e, that got rushed towards the end and supposedly wrapped up before it was finished, and then there's another republication which is different, and then there's the Hogshead re-release that's cleaned up and has added stuff, but was never finished, so there's loose ends and no ending.
It's a trainwreck. I keep hearing really good things, so I want to get into it, but damn, I would have a hard time running it myself or pitch it to another GM.
>>44261415
Just run the original 1e books replace the final book with the fan made ending Empire at War, it's really not that messy or tough to run
>>44257410
>Eh at least they weren't silly cutsey gnomes they weren't that bad
Oh, they were definitely that bad.
>>44256831
>popular house rules?
My group toyed around with a deeper armour/damage system involving different armour reactions to chain, plate and leather armours.
Was an interesting idea but we couldn't make it very practical.
What do players look for in a game of WFRP?
>>44262646
I want to play a Steam Tank crew lost in hostile territory, trying to make it back home.
I want this so fucking bad.
>>44262741
Dwarf Engineer, Gold Wizard Technician, Imperial Veteran Commander and a Halfling coachman.
Stuck out in the Badlands.
Surrounded by Orcs.
>>44256831
>>how major is the splatbook power creep?
Honestly not that bad, especially compared to other games. Playing with the evil careers like Vampires and Chaos Champions is a mess, but you know what you signed up for and they're not going to show up in a normal game. Otherwise, everything is more or less on the same scale.
It's not like 1e where it was a race to Champion, there's plenty of valid paths for your character to walk, and there's no OP career choice (you could argue that some have great trappings to start with, but none that are the 'take this or you're a retard' option).
>>44261912
But then what about Carrion Up the Reik? D:
>>44262646
>My group toyed around with a deeper armour/damage system involving different armour reactions to chain, plate and leather armours.
>Was an interesting idea but we couldn't make it very practical.
I think the idea sounds cool, but I think it would require a pretty in-depth revision of the armours.
I'm still weirded out by the fact that the WH40kRP system (Dark Heresy was built on the WHFRP2 rules, and it's since gone through several revisions, for better or worse) still doesn't have "Special Qualities" for armours, even though it uses different degrees of special things that are poorly defined ("Flak" armour gets +1 vs. explosions, for example).
>What do players look for in a game of WFRP?
The horrors of mundane life and trying to stay alive and maybe make a buck on the way, covered in mud and blood, and the constant realization that this (whatever this is at the moment) was a terrible idea.
>>44256831
>house rules?
I'm trying to figure out a way to make fire and bright mages less shit. As it stands, fire spells behave nothing like fire, and only one fire spell actually sets things on fire.
Fire wizards should be a danger to everyone, including themselves, but given that fire damage ignores both armour and toughness (except on the first round of exposure), giving anyone control over it would just be bananas.
Also, no wall of fire spell.
>>44264945
>only one fire spell actually sets things on fire.
That depends on how you judge it, honestly. I think that there are several that absolutely should set things on fire, just by virtue of causing fire damage to things.
For example, Breathe Fire doesn't explicitly set anything on fire, but unless your GM is terrible, that should absolutely be able to set things on fire.
The oddest shit is probably Conflagration of Doom, which explicitly calls down "a fiery inferno" that "engulfs a target area". But then it calls for Willpower Tests to avoid taking more damage while in the area, which is.. very odd. So is it.. soulfire, or is it actual fire setting things on fire?
Crown of Fire can explicitly be used to set things on fire, although it's odd that it's explicit for that one (a self-buff) while there's no such mention on the others (that I've mentioned).
>Also, no wall of fire spell.
Curtain of Flame. It's odd, because I imagine a Curtain to go downwards, whereas a Wall goes upward, and fire going downwards is odd. But alright. Either way, it's effectively a Wall of Fire. This also explicitly can set fire to things around it.
Fire Balls don't seem to set things on fire, but I can imagine them being more like exploding balls than enveloping fire, so.. alright. But again, if a GM doesn't let you use them to set things on fire, he's an idiot, I think.
Flaming Sword of Rhuin comes to mind as another one that should absolutely be able to set things on fire. You summon a flaming sword, why wouldnt you be able to set things on fire? Stick it in a ball of hay, stick it on a tapestry, instant fire hazard.
Inextinguishable Flame comes to mind as horrifying in this context. Set fire to a bale of hay, throw the spell on it, and scatter it through a castle or city. Fucking hell.
>only one fire spell actually sets things on fire.
Which one would that be? I can't see any of them actually explicitly causing enemies to be set on fire.
>>44264945
> fire spells behave nothing like fire
Fire spells not "behaving like fire" is a common issue in games that feature fire spells, and it's largely because such things are left up to the GM and the situation.
I have the vague memory that Dark Heresy (which featured Pyromancy Psykers) made this more explicit, in that the GM is supposed to determine just exactly what happens, and that it's dangerous to play with fire.
But that obviously doesn't mean much for WHFRP2, but it does set an anecdotal precedent in that Dark Heresy was based on the WHFRP2 rules and came afterwards. So it might've been a known issue that you're not the first one to highlight.
But it really shouldn't be an issue unless you've got a truly anal GM. I don't think Torches are explicitly mentioned to set fire to things either, yet you'd never question that, after all. So who'd question a Bright Wizard wanting to set fire to something either?
>>44265213
>Either way, it's effectively a Wall of Fire
Not really. For one, the fact that it needs a ceiling to hang down from limits it heavily.
And I think you missed the part where
>given that fire damage ignores both armour and toughness (except on the first round of exposure), giving anyone control over it would just be bananas.
>I can't see any of them actually explicitly causing enemies to be set on fire.
None of them do. I said "things", referring to Crown of Fire.
>>44265286
>Not really. For one, the fact that it needs a ceiling to hang down from limits it heavily.
Alright, I'll confess to just quickly reading through the spells when you made your post, but re-reading it, you're actually not right. It doesn't need to hang down from a ceiling. It says:
>Although it always hangs downward like a curtain affected by gravity, the figurative rod that supports it can be bent at any angle, follow any curve, or be at any height you choose
"figurative rod" that supports it. It can hang from thin air. I STILL think that's odd as hell, and I have problems envisioning it, and I wonder why they made it Curtain of Flame, instead of Wall of Fire (is there some aspect I'm not thinking of?). But effectively, it seems a lot like a wall of fire to me.
>None of them do. I said "things", referring to Crown of Fire.
Thought so. I was afraid I misunderstood you, and did an autist's interpretation, thinking "things" when you actually meant "people". Just so we're on the same page.
>
>given that fire damage ignores both armour and toughness (except on the first round of exposure), giving anyone control over it would just be bananas.
But that's largely irrelevant, because we're talking about setting things on fire, not people. Yes, fire damage ignores both armour and toughness, but it's still something that should be arbitrated by the GM, which is a pretty strong case for not explicitly including the act of setting people on fire, because as you say, it would be bananas to give a player full control over it.
But at the same time, if a GM says "Nuh, uh, this is fire but it doesn't set anything at all on fire and you can't use your fire to start fires", change GM, because that GM is terrible.
>>44265460
>But that's largely irrelevant
How is it irrelevant? Just set the floor on fire, and the creatures standing there will take unavoidable damage depending on the size of the fire (a flame template-sized fire would cause a shit ton of damage), and if they don't move away immediately, losing any chance of making swift attacks etc, they'll take the same damage next round, ignoring armour and toughness.
>that GM is terrible.
Or maybe he just has a basic understanding of game balance.
>>44265647
>How is it irrelevant? Just set the floor on fire, and the creatures standing there will take unavoidable damage depending on the size of the fire (a flame template-sized fire would cause a shit ton of damage), and if they don't move away immediately, losing any chance of making swift attacks etc, they'll take the same damage next round, ignoring armour and toughness.
So you're against the GM arbitrating whether something sets fire to objects or not, but you're fine with making the assumption that he will be making the call that if you do set fire to something, it immediately covers everything in such a way that it engulfs the present opponents and forces them to take immediate fire damage each and every round?
Let's use the example of Flaming Sword of Rhuin. By your logic, this cannot possibly set anything on fire, because it doesn't explicitly let you do that.
Would you use the same argument with a torch? Torches also cannot explicitly set things on fire, but it is inferred and arbitrated by the GM; "Yes, you can set X on fire, of course you can, it's a fucking torch".
>Or maybe he just has a basic understanding of game balance.
More likely, he's autistic and cannot made reasonable judgement calls and narrate to save his life. Someone that isn't functionally retarded and has a basic understanding of game balance wouldn't have troubles with Bright Wizards being a hazard to themselves and others without massively nuking the game.
Hell, if anything, a liberal application of logic and non-shit-GMing should immediately solve one of your main complaints, "Fire wizards should be a danger to everyone, including themselves". If you set fire to things, those things are as likely to set you and your friends on fire as much as anyone else.
The idea that a GM being able to reasonable arbitrate the application of fire through fire spells resulting in massive abuse that will immediately and irrevocably unbalance the game is a complete strawman.
![zhXT8pk[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/qmA56rR.png "zhXT8pk[1].png")
Also, just to be clear, fire does not ignore Armour and Toughness. Being ON fire means you take 1d10 damage that ignores Armour and Toughness.
But you are not set on fire unless you take two consecutive rounds of damage, from fire, from the same source, and then fail an Agility Test.
So the claim that setting things on fire will result in immediate burniation of all nearby opponents is ridiculous. Even if the tapestry would catch fire, they wouldn't take damage from that until their next turn, and then they'd have to stay in the fire until their next turn, and then they'd have to fail an Agility Test.
THEN they'd be On Fire, and only THEN would they take 1d10 damage that ignores Toughness and Armour.
By the time the Bright Wizard has set the room on fire, everyone in it is equally fucked.
So being able to set things on fire as deemed appropriate by the GM is pretty fucking reasonable.
WFRP Bump
So I feel like the fantasy setting isn't grimdark enough, and I would rather it be closer to 40k in grimdark scale; how much would I have to change in order to make the Empire as xenophobic, assholish, and backwards as the Imperium? And would the setting be hurt by squatting the dwarves?
>>44268410
While the officials of the Empire do attempt to maintain their alliances with their 'allies', the commoners and peasants are occasionally exceptionally xenophobic.
All you'd have to do is have those peasants influence the Empire's official position and have a single title shitfuck of an Emperor ruin everything his predecessors worked to achieve.
I don't see why you'd want to make it much more grimdark however. The setting is still brimming with typical medieval xenophobia which is only made worse by the terror that Witch Hunters and Magicians provoke, as well as the fear of Chaos and mutation.
http://warhammer-enemy-within.blogspot.ca/2009/09/session-1-arrival-in-nuln.html
I thought the thread might enjoy listening to this. I have it on while I'm painting.
>>44268410
>how much would I have to change in order to make the Empire as xenophobic, assholish, and backwards as the Imperium?
They're not as backwards, I think that's going to be hard to pull off. But the other things are practically true, especially on a individual level.
>And would the setting be hurt by squatting the dwarves?
Depends on what you mean by the setting being hurt. It would obviously change the setting quite a bit, but depending on what you do, having the dwarves fall could be entirely in the spirit of the setting.
>>44268887
Is anyone else getting an annoying fucking echo on that recording? Just want to make sure that it's the recording and not on my end.
>>44269137
I don't hear an enormous echo, but it might be because they're playing in a not so full room and the device recording it is in the middle rather than using mic pins.
>>44269169
Nah, when playing it there's a pretty major echo. Presumably, they aren't playing in a church or something.
>>44256831
Sigmar's Heirs population numbers, low or good?
>>44260067
..... Skaven?
>>44269169
>>44269215
Thanks a lot for the help, even if it was just "I don't hear an enormous echo". Apparently VLC has some kind of "sound spatializer" filter on by default, and I've never noticed issues before, but turning it off fixed it.
Just mentioning it in case it happens to anyone else.
>>44269290
A lot of the crew were mutants. Mutant pirates. We were used to rubbing shoulders with all sorts of ne'er do wells.
>>44269263
It's a little low given how big the country is, but keep in mind the Storm of Chaos *just* finished. There's bound to be wrong counts, refugees moving from place to place, and a shit tonne of soldiers still out in the field. One thing in the Reikland entry is that the populace is upset that the army hasn't been sent home yet. So there's a lot of people still unaccounted for.
>>44269263
>Sigmar's Heirs population numbers, low or good?
I'd say ever-so-slightly low, maybe add 100 here, 1000 there, but it's not off by a lot. If you count the population as the "tax-paying" population (say, the Imperial Census), I'd say it's pretty spot-on.
>>44256831
I have a question that almost comes up as a question with every campaign I've played in.
Grimoires, how do you get them or award them to players so they can advance to a journeyman mage.
>>44269367
It's mostly a problem because the towns and villages at least in the western/ southern empire shoudl be fairly high. Reikland and Wissenland were population centers are they not?
Sigmar is hammer, be the steel.
>>44269368
Search rolls in the appropriate locations. Abandoned wizard tower? Roll good enough and you might find one hidden under a secret compartment. If you fight any wizards, you might find one on their corpse. You shouldn't hand them out like candy, but if you think it's appropriate, go for it.
>>44269395
Yes, though I'd say Averland as well, if they aren't being invaded through Black Fire Pass. Those three provinces are the least likely to face a major attack compared to the other provinces. They're safer (relatively) and richer, so more people would want to live there.
>>44269529
I mean, if the Empire is so wealthy and prosperous and able to field such massive armies the population numbers should be fairly high.
>>44269395
Altdorf has a population of 105 000, though. That's pretty major. For reference, London in 1100 AD had a population of just over 15 000, and in 1300 AD it had about 80 000.
Approximates, of course.
So if we say that Altdorf has 105 000 tax-paying adults, we could conceivably be talking about a population as high as almost 200-300k, depending on how taxes work, I guess.
>>44269564
>I mean, if the Empire is so wealthy and prosperous and able to field such massive armies the population numbers should be fairly high.
WHFRP2:s base assumption is that this is RIGHT after Storm of Chaos, though, a major war and devastating, depopulating event.
A lot of people are displaced, even more are probably unrecorded, there's likely either an ongoing famine, or a coming one, since so much must have gone into the war effort. If there's farmhands to tend the fields at all, we're lucky.
>>44269679
I don't believe the war really touched the south right?
The northern empire was mostly fucked, but the south should be swollen with refugees.
>>44269714
They could very well be ignored for the purposes of taxes, if we're going by the assumption that the population statistics are taxable adults. If they people have no homes, no jobs and no money, a tax collector might not put them down in his report so it doesn't look like he's skimming.
>>44269772
This just seems far too low.
>>44269795
It's simply an interpretation. It's up to you, really. If you want them to have larger populations, multiply it by two or more. Fantasy worlds generally don't have scale down and GW has always played by the "there are enough men/elves/dwarfs/monsters as the story requires".
>>44269835
Assuming this is real.
>>44269835
And here's Reikland's population numbers. Assuming this is is JUST heads of households, Reikland especially should be much more pouplated since it was spared the storm of chaos.
>>44270083
Sounds reasonable enough for me.
>>44270083
>>44270104
>>44270108
>>44269835
If we assume that it's just "heads of household", i.e. tax-payers, we can easily up the overall population by factor of 3-5, probably more.
And this would probably put the population closer to early-to-late middle ages Germany or France, which makes a lot of sense.
>>44270120
Reikland's population should be in the low million at least, in my opinion.
You need a larger population to kinda justify the empire's advancements, not to mention having all that supposed wealth.
So I was re-reading my KOTG book in preparation for running a game set near Athel Loren, and came across this bit of fluff in the section on Mousillion. The idea of a Mummy Lord from Khemri taking a barony in Mousillion is now hilarious to me, and I'm trying to decide if it's worth buying defunct models from a dead game to make a warhammer fantasy Tomb Kings army representing that.
To make this more on topic: what's the strangest noble you've included or seen in a WHFRP game?
>>44270255
Low million for all of Reikland, assuming people have returned from the war sounds about right, I think.
>>44270314
rural noble who was so convinced he was a mutant when he was in fact not a mutant that he spent far beyond his means for disguises and makeup.
>>44270314
I wouldn't say strange, but for a campaign I was running, the players encountered Duke Leopold von Bildhofen of Carroburg. They broke into his room while he was hosting a ball, and I said there was a giant, exaggerated painting of himself in his room. I suppose it was more of a strange detail than him being strange.
>>44270323
Low Million, to just a few millions.
You need a somewhat high population to be able to actually fight the beastmen, orcs and forest goblins.
>>44270448
>You need a somewhat high population to be able to actually fight the beastmen, orcs and forest goblins.
They don't actually fight it that much though, they mostly hide a lot. If the beastmen in the empire were to rise up, the empire would be in serious shit.
>>44270656
>>If the beastmen in the empire were to rise up, the empire would be in serious shit.
>>44270888
Beastmen have never been anything more than a whipping boy. Even the greatest of Beastlords was fucked over by some no name count and a group of knights who saw there was easy killing to be had.
![iM9eoMz[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/P9Dtph6.png "iM9eoMz[1].png")
>>44271041
So what's the least playable campaign pitch; a chaos warband, a skaven warband, or a vampire coven?
>>44273420
Probably skaven.
>>44273420
Nehekhara skeleton crew.
>>44273420
Vampire coven because if someone becomes a vampire, they'll leave the rest of the party behind.
Skaven because everyone will kill each other.
>>44273548
vampire coven sort of implies all the PCs are vampires, though.
>>44269491
Wat
>>44274116
Possibly, I just assumed some would be slaves/servants, or some fools hired to do dirty work.
Anyone have a favorite adventure for 2e?
I've always wanted to do something with a dwarf fortress flair and run a game made up of dwarves trying to set up a mining outpost.
>>44274751
One that we've played or one any anon can use for their own?
>>44268410
This has to be a deliberate shitpost.
>>44275524
I wouldn't give it any attention. It was almost a work day earlier.
>>44268968
Outside of technology, I don't really see how the Empire is so much more forward thinking than the Imperium.
>>44269491
>praises Sigmar
>posts wannabe cultist of Verena
I'm watching you
>>44276348
I posted the wrong picture, ;~;
Anyone have a download link for warpstone magazine?
>>44273420
Least playable? I think all of those should be entirely playable, although I guess that if we're looking at overall support, probably Skaven.
Chaos Warband would still use most of the rules and careers, just be a group of marauders and barbarians that's left Norsca or whatever.
A Vampire Coven would still live amongst humans, so basically be humans, you'd just be "confined" to the city, I guess, which isn't a bad thing, really.
Skaven are different, though, you'd have to be very much out of the game's comfort zone in terms of available fluff and supplemental rules. Still entirely playable, but it would take place in the Under-Empire, doing raids into the forests and villages, sneaking into cities, etc.
>>44275717
>Outside of technology, I don't really see how the Empire is so much more forward thinking than the Imperium.
I agree completely. When I say that backwards can be hard to do, it's because the Imperium is actively, dogmatically reactionary and regressive; all the greatest advancements of technology is in their past, and they actively strive to hold back and restrict technology, etc.
But overall, the Empire isn't *much* better, aside from, like you noted, technologically.
>2e
>CRB says that Natural Attack can't be used to parry
>there are monsters with Natural Attack that get Lighting Parry
Seriously, that was never even fixed in errata.
>>44275717
Significantly less xenophobic and willing to work with other races long-term. They've worked with elves and dwarves many times as proper allies rather than 'I maybe just won't kill you when we are done, possibly'.
Halflings are also just a flat part of the empire despite being non-human.
>>44256831
http://i.imgur.com/jJN6PT9.jpg
Wait, where is this from?
It's stupid. Why would you need to buy every possible advance? If you are a Soldier that only ever uses swords why would you ever want that BS advance? I'd limit it lo like 5 obligatory advances.
>>44273420
For long term playability, Skaven are the weakest. Other than the in-character trait of backstabbing, a pure Skaven campaign would have very little to do with a lot of the WFRP material out there. In my experience, without a lot of ground work they rarely go for long and even then - they crash easily.
Between Vampires and Chaos is a tough choice. I've had more experience playing Chaos games, but they suffer from the same problem - if you have followers of different gods, animosity can build and people can have vastly different goals.
If it's the same god that they follow, it's less of an issue but there is an established end goal of Daemonhood.
Vampire games are basically - live forever, don't get caught. I'd say that's the most playable.
>>44274794
I've played a game like that.
>>44279915
It's more than that even. Dwarfs are a long term allies and Sigmar priests are supposed to really like dwarfs.
>Form of the Frostfiend
Holy shit, ice witches are amazing.
But how is this even supposed to look? There aren't any pictures or even a good description.
>>44279956
>If you are a Soldier that only ever uses swords why would you ever want that BS advance?
So you won't feel retarded when the enemies are shooting at you from a location that is not accessible to you?
>>44279968
In 1e, part of the ethos of the Church of Sigmar was that you could never turn down a Dwarf in need.
>>44279915
Not being xenophobic doesn't really seem like forward thinking to me.
>>44279989
That sure works when you are roleplaying a character that completely despises ranged combat but needs to but BS for whatever reason. Or an idiot who needs to buy Int.
>>44279956
>Wait, where is this from?
It's from the updated rulebook. When FFG re-published the books for it's final (digital) print, they seem to have used the first print of the rulebook, not the later reprints.
Yes, they're that retarded.
>It's stupid. Why would you need to buy every possible advance?
Because if you're advancing to an Advanced Career, you are on a career track. If you want to go back to a career that does not require you to know what you're doing, that's exactly what the rule saying you can take any Basic career at any time (for 200xp instead of 100xp) is for.
>If you are a Soldier that only ever uses swords why would you ever want that BS advance?
Because you're not retarded. Enjoy failing hilariously at life.
>>44279996
>In 1e, part of the ethos of the Church of Sigmar was that you could never turn down a Dwarf in need.
Still there in 2e. You must assist dwarvenfolk in need.
>>44279956
RAW says you need all the advances, but it's a pretty common house rule to just skip that.
>>44279915
>Significantly less xenophobic and willing to work with other races long-term.
That's not forward-thinking, that's just stupid. The isolationism of 40k's Imperium is out of necessity and for the protection of mankind, not because hurr durr muh bigotruh.
Backwards or forwards has nothing to do with xenophobic or not.
>>44280046
>be Knight of Inner Circle
>loathe ranged combat as something for weaklings, cowards and peasants
>would rather die that use a ranged weapon
>LOL you need that +10 BS dude
It's stupid. My long term WH GM always used obligatory and non obligatory advances.
>>44280077
But 40k's Imperium is literally a bunch of autists that would never even develop new technology or adapt Xeno tech because their imaginary machine spirit says no.
>>44280094
>My long term WH GM always used obligatory and non obligatory advances.
Pretty sensible. Changing dependent on the advanced career you wanted to pursue.
>>44280113
That's because the Mechanicus pretty much has a monopoly on technology. A lot of it's more forward thinking members seemingly went on to form the Dark Mechanicum and the rest didn't see the point in trying to improve on what was currently on hand when the possibility of discovering old human technology would yield greater rewards. Even still though the Mechanicus is a large organization and there are those within it that take an interest in xeno technology or innovation. For example, the recent Mont'ka book had Mechanicus forces who seemed more interested in observing and getting samples of Tau technology than they were aiding the Imperial war effort.
>>44265213
We always replace the willpower saves vs AoE damages spells with agility saves. It makes so much more sense.
>>44280399
So Magic Resistance is basically useless in your games, then?
>>44280399
My group gave the option to choose between Willpower or Initiative.
>>44280094
>be Knight of Inner Circle
>loathe ranged combat as something for weaklings, cowards and peasants
>would rather die that use a ranged weapon
>LOL you need that +10 BS dude
So talk to your GM if you feel that you should be exempt, it doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with the system.
One of the reasons the career system is great is precisely because it avoids catering to what you're trying to do; cherry-picking.
If nothing else, it represents your general growth as part of <insert career>. Just because you eschew ballistic weapons doesn't mean that you won't get better at using it over time.
In this specific case we're talking about two advances total, for 200xp. It's ridiculous.
>>44280113
>because their imaginary machine spirit says no.
>implying that machine spirits aren't real
Also, the development of new technology and adaptation of xenotech is incredibly, incredibly dangerous when we are talking about the levels we are. The Imperium is shit because it has to be under the circumstances.
>>44280094
Come back when you're a one-eyed ogre champion forced to buy +40 BS.
tfw you've bought +40 BS and Marksman, and your BS total is 41.
>>44280555
This, now THIS I can see as a legit complaint. Damn. I hope your GM doled out some extra experience for not trying to weasel out of it.
>>44280580
No, but I knew what I was getting into. I really wanted to progress to Witch Hunter, or I could've gone into another basic class instead.
I never let anyone weasel out of anything ever, so I wasn't expecting any exceptions to be made for me.
>>44280603
I mean, it's all there in the rulebook. You have to buy everything, so adapt your character to the situation or suffer through.
>>44280614
>all there in the rulebook
>thinking the only way to play is RAW
>>44280682
>thinking you get to dictate rules to the GM
>>44280769
>thinking the GM is bound by the rules
>thinking you can't discuss things in a rational manner with your GM
>>44279956
>http://i.imgur.com/jJN6PT9.jpg
Very easy solution within the rules. If you pay 200 you can enter any basic career and you may quit your current career without finishing it.
I don't quite agree with all the trappings myself. say you're a Ghost Strider who is going to become a Vampire hunter. Why would you need a crossbow? You've got a very good quality Elfbow and you're an Elf?
Also, do you really need to change your armour? Maybe as an elf you'll like your high quality leather armour above chainmail.
>>44280778
>thinking you can't discuss things in a rational manner with your GM
I think *you* can't.
But in all seriousness, "can I have free shit?" is not a discussion. "I should get free shit" is even less of one. "Give me free shit" is ban-worthy.
>>44280803
As a general rule, our group takes a "Can you do the job?" view of career advancement.
If you've got suitable gear (even if not exact) and taken the right sort of advances previously, we generally allow it.
Best example I can think of is a Wizard character who had racked up some massive favours and brownie points with a wide range of contacts in the Colleges. He only had about half the grimoires he needed by RAW, but we allowed it.
>>44280849
I think you're looking at Anons. argument sideways. I don't think he's saying you should get shit for free, I think he's saying that the trappings and advances should be subjective - not objective.
Using the above Knight of the Inner Circle example anon used, it's perfectly reasonable to discuss with your GM why you shouldn't NEED to take the BS advancements.
>>44280889
>I should get free shit
>>44280769
I think I never played a game where everything was played by the rules. Every GM will change something.
>>44280911
How are you getting free shit by not completing all advancements in a career?
I think you are confusing access with progress.
Not taking +20 BS isn't going to help you when it goes up to +30 BS and instead of purchasing 4 advances you need 6.
Especially if you still justify getting into the new career from the old to your GM.
>>44280911
Not wasting exp on completely pointless crap is not free shit.
>be a frail sniper that's supposed to be super weak and suck at close combat
>need to buy +20 WS, +15 S and +15 T
Yeah, makes perfect sense.
Is there any picture of frostfiends anywhere? Or any description how they actually look? Because everything in Kislev book is just that they have bat wings and are white.
>>44280986
>>44280948
>>44280937
>>44280911
Pointless argument cut short: there is nothing wrong playing with the rules as written. Equally, there is nothing wrong with playing with house rules you've discussed with the GM.
Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.
>>44280889
>it's perfectly reasonable to discuss with your GM why you shouldn't NEED to take the BS advancements.
It's perfectly reasonable to discuss it, but there's no reason to entertain it. There's legit narrative reasons why you become better at some things within a career.
>>44280948
>Not wasting exp on completely pointless crap is not free shit.
Yes it is. You are advancing faster than you should. Completing a career is not about you getting each and every advantage you can squeeze out of the system.
>>44280986
It's almost as if being a sniper is physically exhausting and actually trains you beyond just sniping things, who would've guessed?
Ultimately, if your objective is to specifically NOT get good in something, you shouldn't go into careers that requires you to have or trains you to get major advances in whatever you're trying to avoid.
And if you are "frail" for some specific reason, that's reason enough to bar you from entry into those careers entirely.
>>44281012
The issue is really that the retard in question said that the rules were stupid, when in fact they make perfect sense, and is part of making WHFRP2 what it is.
In essence, he was arguing against perfectly reasonable rules, rather than bringing up an argument as to why his character should be exempt from a specific part of them.
The former is retarded, the latter is perfectly reasonble. GM fiat overrules anything and everything. This doesn't mean that those rules are not there for a reason, or that they should be completely ignored because someone at the table doesn't understand progression, powergames by cherry-picking, or just wants free shit.
![d6557917105e608b1264edf1a3f814a6[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/qHauRd2.jpg "d6557917105e608b1264edf1a3f814a6[1].jpg")
>>44281010
>>44281319
>There's legit narrative reasons why you become better at some things within a career.
Only if that narrative reason exists.
Again, if a Knight of the Inner Circle never touches a ranged weapon, never practices with it, doesn't go out of his way to become a better shot - there isn't a narrative reason for him to suddenly become a better shot.
There are plenty of reasons to entertain it, dependent on situation.
>Completing a career is not about you getting each and every advantage you can squeeze out of the system.
Actually, it is.
Advancing to a new career doesn't make your character better. It gives you more opportunities to advance, but if you didn't take that +20, then having access to +30 isn't going to do shit to improve you.
>And if you are "frail" for some specific reason, that's reason enough to bar you from entry into those careers entirely.
Being a career is about being able to do the job. If the GM and player believes they can, it's perfectly acceptable.
>It's almost as if being a sniper is physically exhausting and actually trains you beyond just sniping things, who would've guessed?
You're making an error assuming that everyone's experience in a career will be identical.
>>44262646
>What do players look for in a game of WFRP?
Crits.
>>44281350
See
>>44281012
Additionally:
> that the rules were stupid, when in fact they make perfect sense
You're both wrong. The rules are a subjective framework to establish a reality. If you think they're stupid or make perfect sense, you're both wrong. They just attempt to simulate an aspect of the game. They aren't perfect, but nor are they batshit insane.
>rather than bringing up an argument as to why his character
I believe he brought up the Knight of the Inner Circle example, which you have either missed or ignored.
>completely ignored because someone at the table doesn't understand progression, powergames by cherry-picking, or just wants free shit.
Your seeing things through your own bias, believing that someone who doesn't want to take every advance in a career before moving on to the next on in it's string must be either a) not understanding the rules.b) power gaming or c) trying to mooch free shit.
I am forced to assume that you are a troll or just refusing to think rationally or contribute a decent argument to the discussion.
>>44281350
>Warhammer
>powergaming
Dude, when played RAW no character will even survive getting half of his starting career advancements before dying.
Advanced careers are literally pointless since nobody will get them.
Warhammer campaigns played RAW mean somebody will be making a new character every game.
It also means that magic is completely pointless. And weapons other than bows and axe+shield are pointless.
Warhammer is a horrible system when played with no houserules.
>>44281358
Larger than I thought.
>>44281403
Concise anon is concise.
>>44281420
>Warhammer campaigns played RAW mean somebody will be making a new character every game.
>being this basic
>>44281486
Could you stop shitposting and samefagging?
>>44281433
Literally just googled "bat white monster". Sorry.
Question for the group based on the recent advancement arguments:
Assuming you pay for the base 100xp per career, would you see any issues with a Dwarf Slayer character to advanced straight from Troll Slayer to Daemon Slayer (paying the 300xp to get from Troll to Giant, Giant to Dragon and Dragon to Daemon) if he succeeded in killing a greater Daemon, without taking any of the advancements at all?
Or, to make it less in extreme - advancing straight to Giant Slayer if you succeed in killing a giant?
>>44281420
>Dude, when played RAW no character will even survive getting half of his starting career advancements before dying.
Funny, since you get everything except the Characteristics Advancements on creation.
That said, false dichotomy and strawman. The discussion wasn't whether you should play RAW or not, and nobody raised the argument that they were somehow perfect. Which was the entire point of the post.
>>44281403
>I believe he brought up the Knight of the Inner Circle example
Nope, that was a post-hoc. He didn't say "Huh, I understand why the rule is there, but it's reasonable to sometimes ignore, such as when you are a character that truly never touches a ranged weapon, for some reason; what do you think?" he said "It's stupid. Why would you need to buy every possible advance? If you are a Soldier that only ever uses swords why would you ever want that BS advance? I'd limit it lo like 5 obligatory advances."
The very wording of which suggests that he isn't even playing, and came up with the knight as a pointless theoretical that, either way, should be decided on by the GM on an individual basis, either way.
BTW, making a blanket rule limiting it to 5 obligatory advances is probably the dumbest shit I've heard so far. 500 XP to move on to a better Career where you can again cherry-pick your advances.
Might as well get rid of the career system or not play WHFRP2.
>>44281749
>should be decided on by the GM on an individual basis, either way.
Entirely correct.
>> making a blanket rule limiting it to 5 obligatory advances is probably the dumbest shit I've heard so far.
Moderately correct. 2e actually tried to go this way - with every career trying to, roughly, be equivalent. That being said though, 5 advances is rather few for a decent career.
>>44281675
I dunno. My gut says no, since it's such a massive jump, but I WANT to say yes, because if you're a slayer that's slayed a daemon, you're a daemon-slayer, no?
I couldn't say for sure, without double-checking all the career entries and the background fluff. And I can't be bothered.
That being said, as-is, I would argue that the various "steps" are part of a single, long career, and you'd have to go through them. I would, however, waive the requirements of slaying the things "in-between", and narratively, you'd be a daemon-slayer.
So if you're a Dwarf Slayer and you kill a Daemon, you would still have to go through Troll, Giant, and Dragon, but you wouldn't have to actually kill a Troll, a Giant, or a Dragon, and narratively, you'd be a Daemon-Slayer.
Or something to that effect.
>>44281784
>Moderately correct.
I'll meet you half-way for a blanket rule; you need to take 3/4 of all available Advancements to finish a Career, to an absolute minimum of 5, of which 1 must be something you do not already possess (or an increase in something that you do; this is to prevent you from being "Oh, I already have these advances, I'll just take another career then!").
This would make it possible to avoid things you really, really don't want, but still largely prevent cherry-picking and career-skipping-to-inflate-maximum-characteristics.
You'd probably still have to take some BS as that Ogre mentioned earlier, in the end, but it'd be far less crazy.
>>44281675
Don't tie yourself to later careers religiously, starting careers can be actual careers but later ones are for the most part just advancement schemes and represent experience and life choices. Especially for things like Trollslayers/Daemonslayers
Your 1st level guy can call himself a Demonslayer, he'll be a bit weedy but whatever.
So can wizards and priests marry? What about each other? I'm pondering a pair of NPCs for a campaign I'm running that consists of a Jade Wizard and a priest of Taal and Rhya who wander around, drinking, fighting, protecting woodland holy sites and raising a family on the move, but I dunno if their respective organizations would allow it.
>>44282129
I'm the one that said the thing about taking the careers but just be a daemon-slayer narratively or whatever, and I endorse this message.
The core book explicitly tells you to not tie yourself down completely to the Careers, but that it's largely a matter of interpretation. If you're a "Captain", it could be the captain of an army, the captain of the guard, or just someone somewhere fulfilling roughly the same job description.
And when it comes to qualifying for a Career, if it's silly (such as wanting to take the Troll-Slayer Career, requiring you to kill a Troll, even though you've killed a Greater Daemon already) just talk to your GM about a reasonable compromise.
![aae92f3d78080e39cfdab0167eed5700[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/b1xID2p.jpg "aae92f3d78080e39cfdab0167eed5700[1].jpg")
If we're talking Slayer progression, I have a question.
Why the FUCK is the only way to become a Troll Slayer via Pit Fighter?
The Career Compendium only shows one Entry Career into Troll Slayer, and it's Pit Fighter.
Which is just.
What.
>>44282979
Troll Slayer is a basic career.
![dwarf_slayer_by_daarken[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/YGr6kYq.jpg "dwarf_slayer_by_daarken[1].jpg")
>>44282995
This does not answer the question, though. Why would Pit Fighter be a Career Entry for Troll Slayer? Why would it be the ONLY Career Entry?
>>44283049
Why not?
Considering the career is meant to represent a total loss of honour and an attempt to redeem yourself via suicide no careers should particularly lead to Trollslayer as a career choice.
Pit Fighter has the reasonable assumption your a dead man walking already if you've sunk that low I guess.
>>44282979
Because WFRP is full of questionable decisions like that. Why does entering the Assassin career require you to own a fucking net?
>>44283084
But you could probably say that about several careers. Troll Slayer should probably just have had a greater and more detailed "Special" requirement, and had Career Entry: Any.
Now, even if you fulfill the requirements, by RAW, you need to either take a path through Pit Fighter, or spend the 200xp to take a Basic Career. Odd as hell.
>>44283105
Because.. batman?
>>44283049
Maybe because it's something very dishonorable for a dwarf character to do?
>>44283105
I never met a GM who really cares about the trappings. Ever.
It only sometimes matter for very specific careers like wizards or knights.
>>44282819
When in doubt, go for the grimdark option. This is a warhammer product, after all. Make them married secretly, hunted by both their organizaitons, and hav eall their screaming spawn be mutants due to their sins that they're too weak to kill. Boom, instant fit for the setting.
>>44282819
Depends on the religion. Some of them don't like wizards while other do and openly work with wizards with no problems.
Is it just me or healing spells really mess with the game?
Very easy cast healing for d10+2 seems broken as hell in this system. Especially since it's a spammable half action.
>>44282819
There's a reference to the Jade Wizards in the initial "brief history of religion" (or something to that effect) in Tome of Salvation, and there's some info on the idea of procreation/raising families for wizards in Realms of Sorcery.
Both of them leads me to believe that a Jade Wizard and a Priest(ess) of Taal and/or Rhya would be perfectly permissible by both organizations, and perhaps even welcomed.
What could cause issue is possibly religious zealots within the cult (or any church, really) of Taal and Rhya that would consider magic blasphemous, and the reference to children of wizards always being raised as part of the College.
So it's not 100% smooth sailing, but as a general rule, I don't think it would cause issue (or at least not more issue than the legions of assholes in the Empire).
>>44283312
>Very easy cast healing for d10+2 seems broken as hell in this system. Especially since it's a spammable half action.
This was covered in an earlier thread. You can only get heals once per encounter or event, once per day.
So you can healed once every time you've taken damage during an encounter or an event, up to the damage taken in that encounter or event, and then you can get healed once per day as part of general recovery.
So yes, healing spells are powerful, but not nearly as powerful as you (or I) thought.
The problem is that this little tidbit of information is not covered for each spell, but is a general rule from elsewhere in the book.
>>44282819
As wfrp is a polytheistic setting you should be fine, especially as the Taal and Rhya cult isn't as centralised as say Sigmarites or Ulricans.
There will always be sub-sects and free spirited priests around
>>44283282
>Depends on the religion.
Aww yeah, the Ulricans would lose their shit over that, and probably two thirds of the Church of Sigmar, too.
>>44283469
The once per encounter part is only true for the first healing spell all priests get. Sigmar and Shallya spells don't work like this. You only get the optional rule from Tome of Salvation to make healing magic less broken.
>>44283258
WHF is not nearly that grimdark on a personal scale.
>>44283282
True.
>>44283448
Cool, that's what I was hoping for, so I'll probably put the two as go-aheads; probably three careers in on each.
>>44283502
Also good to know. Think the pair should avoid Witch Hunters whenever possible? I can't imagine the cult of Taal and Rhya would take too kindly to a group of Sigmarites trying to burn one of their own and his or her wife or husband.
>>44283553
>Think the pair should avoid Witch Hunters whenever possible?
Not especially, you'll always have the odd super insane one and most will sniff and huff at the wizard but no reason to burn a sanctioned wizard, even if they'd prefer to, need to operate within the law for the most part.
>>44283644
Yeah, but I mean more the consorting with a priest in such a way. J. Average Templar of Sigmar could easily spin it as 'seducing a priest with promises from dark powers' and put them both to the torch.
>>44280026
Just go back to dnd dude
>>44283824
Awesome argument dude.
Why would anyone ever use a two handed weapon in this system? They are complete garbage.
>>44256831
Dog rob this for background and ideas for templates, use Dungeon Fantasy from Gurps for the Roolz instead.
The eye watering amount of customization can easily be pared down to suit any of the "weird" or unique career paths and goodies you get in WFRP very easily.
It also applies "autistic levels of detail for mental traits" as actual, concrete rule strictures on how you act. Actually sort of important for many characters, especially the fanatical, fatalistic, or just plain fucked up wrecks of PTSD, which is what you get after a while with most PC's anyway.
Slayers will pretty much die before that happens. unless they don't (like one famous example). I feel this is entirely a function of a weird, stable sort of crazy that he has, really. He's not sane at all, not by any standard, but he's also weirdly stable and functional. Mostly because his life revolves around taking psychotic risks constantly, so he can die.
Which never happens because he's too hardcore and too much of an XP sponge.
In Gurps you could taunt the character and player by giving him the advantage that specifically makes you more likely to succeed if you insist on going into the "danger zone", and which also sort of requires you to do so.
(So basically the textbook "I'm a fucking Ork/Dwarf Slayer/Sterling Archer" one.) It would annoy a Slayer because well, it makes them more likely to actually succeed at their stupidly brave acts.
>>44284033
All that needs to be said senpai
So Araby is full of beastmen, but they are not the goat men kind you find in Empire right?
>>44284052
Sometimes you need that extra oompf. There are times when you're hitting someone and you just can't seem to roll high enough damage, so that extra d10 can help out a lot.
>>44284224
Most likely not. Beastment take on forms that play on taboos and cultural fears of the areas they inhabit. I'm not very informed on what Arab peoples find disgusting, other than dogs and pigs I think?
>>44283542
It's true for all healing spells. It's a general rule, not specific to the spell(s).
>>44280026
>That sure works when you are roleplaying a character that completely despises ranged combat but needs to but BS for whatever reason. Or an idiot who needs to buy Int.
If your character concept is "an idiot" that stays an idiot, why is he taking careers that requires him to have higher intelligence, or careers that result in him getting higher intelligence?
If one of my players bitched about this in this way, I would just straight-up bar him from entering such careers for thematic reasons.
Is it explained anywhere how casting spells as extended actions really works?
Like, if spell takes half action to cast can you spend two actions in one round to cast it as extended action? Can you use channeling every turn? Can you use ingredients every turn? Can you move and start casting, then next turn keep casting and move? Can you cast a spell and attack in the same round?
None of this is explained properly.
>>44284687
>If your character concept is "an idiot" that stays an idiot, why is he taking careers that requires him to have higher intelligence, or careers that result in him getting higher intelligence?
Hey, I'm a retarded servant peasant girl who only knows how to clean toilets and wash dishes. Oh look, I need to advance Intelligence to finish my career.
>>44284625
No? It's only ever mentioned in Heal skill description.
You can and should limit healing spells with houserules, but it's never ever said in the RAW.
>>44284737
Extended actions for casting are usually for spells that take more than one round to complete. If you use your first action to cast, and it takes 1 full and a half action, you can't do anything else this turn. On your next turn, you spend your first half action, roll to cast your spell to see if it is successful. Either way, you get your other half action that turn.
You can use Channelling every turn, so long as you want to use a half action for it. Same with ingredients, so long as you have it you can use it but you must say you're using it before you roll to cast. For my group, I've always said my players can use both if they really need to get that spell off, but of course they must say they're using both.
You can move and start casting.
You can cast a spell and attack in the same round if you have enough actions for it. Say a half action spell and using your other half action for a standard attack.
This is all in Chapter 7, Magic. You just need to read instead of skim.
>>44284802
Peasants aren't stupid. Sure, they're not gifted like the middle or noble classes, but they are smart enough to survive. They're just smart in different ways.
>>44284866
>Extended actions for casting are usually for spells that take more than one round to complete
But you can cast anything as an extended action.
You cast a spell but didn't meet the required number in one round so you just keep casting until you do.
>>44284959
Wait, reading it now it looks like you can't and two GM's I played with did it wrong. Oh boy, so magic is even weaker.
>>44285209
Magic is hardly weak. In every game I've been in/ran, the wizard has almost always been the most powerful person in the group.
>>44285475
How? Starting wizard has one attack spell hitting like short bow. You need at least Magic 3 to cast anything worthwhile. And at that point team fighters will be soaking 9 damage per hit.
>>44285621
It depends on the lore, but you're basically saying someone starts out weak and gets stronger. Which is true for both melee and sorcerers. At magic level 3, they can cast some serious shit. Even Fiery Blast can out damage any other character in the party, possibly more if you roll high enough. And it only has a casting value of 22, which isn't the highest casting value.
>>44284802
Just let it go anon, you're coming off as retarded, I honestly can't believe you can't see the reasons for that
>>44285621
Utility. If you think that you need Magic 3 to cast anything worthwhile, you need to find another angle. Or just don't play spellcasters.
>>44284802
There had to be an advance, and Intelligence is as good as any, really. If we assume that Skills and Talents are the stuff you end up training, Characteristics are your personal growth from doing that job.
>>44284802
>THIS ADVANCEMENT SYSTEM IS STUPID I WAS PLAYING A PARAPLEGIC SAVANT BUT THIS SHIT FORCES ME TO TAKE LIGHTNING REFLEXES OR VERY RESILIENT HOW DOES THIS MAKE SENSE?!
>>44285209
Magic isn't weak, it's actually quite powerful, but the power is in the utility, not sheer damage-dealing. The fact that you get a pretty big spell repertoire and don't have to pay for individual spells (which you'd end up cherry-picking) is a huge boon, and really diversifies your arsenal.
That said, not being able to cast as an extended action is fucking BS, simply because I cannot wrap my head around why. You should absolutely be able to use both your actions, in fact, I'd argue that if you do anything BUT continue casting, casting should be interrupted.
>>44285621
>How? Starting wizard has one attack spell hitting like short bow.
The idea that "regular" Wizards are supposed to be the unchallenged demigods, each one of them capable of replacing literally everyone else, has no place in WHFRP, really. The fact that the verymost basic attack spells are on-par with basic weapons is entirely OK.
How is the Witch Lore of Ice?
I'm getting into a game where it's 3 players. Two mages and a noble(Going for Duelist)
Ice and Beast for the two mages respectively.
>>44286956
>Magic isn't weak, it's actually quite powerful, but the power is in the utility, not sheer damage-dealing.
What about those Lores like Fire that are almost entirely offensive spells?
>>44286970
>>two wizards
By Sigmar, boy. I hope that noble is some kind of dodge monster. It mite be cool, but that sounds like the squishiest party ever.
>>44287024
You mean one of eight? It has some spells like helping you and your allies resist fear and terror, making your allies immune to fire, offering magical healing in the form of Cauterize, making you really good at Command and Intimidate, as well as flash frying your food if you're using Realms of Sorcery. It has the most offensive spells, but there's more to it than that.
>>44287024
Still largely about utility. Set fire to things. Also, some of the fire spells are actually really solid damage spells, even if we don't consider the idea of setting abso-fucking-lutely everything on fire.
Put up some Fire Walls and shit or whatever they call it, I forget. The Flame Drapes that hang and shit.
>>44287037
>I hope that noble is some kind of dodge monster.
Or just flee a lot or stay hidden. WHFRP2 does nothing if not encourage the coward's way out.
>>44287074
Sorry, I wasn't trying to prove you wrong. I'm new to this game and was wondering about it as it seemed to be much higher in the area of damage than the other schools.
>>44287037
Well, they are going for Duelist but that's a fair way away.
>>44287116
It's fine, this thread just seems to attract a few people who can't read some of the rules. Fire is indeed higher in straight out damage, like Conflagration of Doom is basically a "fuck you, fuck this, fuck everything" spell that doesn't end until everything in its path is dead. Using it often brings the college magisters down on you, since using it alerts every magic user within five miles of its use. The other lores tend to be a bit more subtle when it comes to dealing damage.
![Furfagmeme[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/JHCUiFo.jpg "Furfagmeme[1].jpg")
>>44287116
It's definitely MORE, and it's got a few more options, too, a few different fireballs, so to say. But it's still far from being damage only, or anything.
It's actually interesting. Going into WHFRP2 and checking out the Bright Wizard's repertoire, I was expecting them to be much more one-sided, but they can actually pull of some tricks.
Also, you could always argue with your GM that just the fact that you're a wizard and throwing fire around should be intimidating as all fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. This isn't WH40k after all, and you're not facing heretics or daemons or space marines, you're facing mostly regular fucking people or furries.
>>44287037
Or Ice Witch just goes Frostfiend every time.
>>44287202
I just love the idea of throwing a spell, and then like two hours later as you're leaving the scene of the crime and the smouldering corpse of a highwaymen's camp, there's other wizards coming from pretty much all angles being like "WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU JUST DO?!".
>>44286970
Ice will really reward the Witch having a good WS.
If you've got a good WS it will murder people in melee later on.
>>44287308
Funny enough, the Skill that's associated with Lore of Fire is Intimidate. Not to mention that most common, righteous folk fear and mistrust wizards as a rule anyway.
>>44287337
When one of my players was abusing that spell, they'd run into the magister equivalent of Sgt. Tucker from SVU. Usually just to get in their face about it before the college sends out its own mage hunters to 'discipline' them.
>>44287344
Why? Best damage spells are AoE. Ice Witches have much better AoE than even Bright wizards. Or can turn into ice monsters that can solo giants.
>>44280580
He let him play an ogre that is more than enough.
Also if you don't want to spend experience in a particular attribute you can change to another career.
There is more than enough.
>>44287392
The touch of deal spell that shits out enough damage to kill anything dead.
>>44287382
>Funny enough, the Skill that's associated with Lore of Fire is Intimidate. Not to mention that most common, righteous folk fear and mistrust wizards as a rule anyway.
Exactly my point. And now there's not just a Wizard, but a Bright Wizard, his hair quite possibly on fire, throwing fire, nature's own favourite weapon of intimidation, and the wizard in question happens to be trained in Intimidation.
I realize it's a hard sell to the vast majority of GM:s, but it should conceivably rout a ton of encounters.
>>44287451
The person who was asking about the Lore of Ice before:
I can't seem to find where it says what the associated skill is for the Witch Lores.
Do they just not have one?
>>44287451
Or cause all the witch hunters in 100km radius to want your ass in their torture chamber.
>>44287580
They usually want your ass in there anyway, even if you're a completely loyal servant of the Emperor.
>>44287393
>Also if you don't want to spend experience in a particular attribute you can change to another career.
It doesn't work like that. You must take all Advances for each Career to take a new Career (bar spending 200 to take any Basic Career), but for characteristics, you always use your highest advancement possible, ever.
So let's say you're (just going to make shit up at random) a Cook, and Cooks have +5 Intelligence on their Advancement Table, and you don't want Intelligence, so you spend the extra experience to change to another Basic Class, just to get out of it. So you pick, I dunno, Highwayman, and they don't have +5 Intelligence on their Advancement Table.
Then you actually ADD the +5 Intelligence from the Cook and apply it to the Advancement Scheme of the Highwayman.
Essentially, you can NEVER go downwards on your Advancement Scheme for Characteristics, only upwards. But all advances TAKEN also stack, so if you change from a Career with +5 Intelligence to one with +5 Intelligence (after completing the first one), you don't get to take +5 Intelligence again.
![detail+capernaum+nobleman's+son[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/fXcMefo.jpg "detail+capernaum+nobleman's+son[1].jpg")
>>44287580
Pfft. I'm a Journeyman Wizard, I don't have to do shit. Here's my sanctioning papers, officer, now fuck off.
>>44287630
That's not how it works.
>>44287728
In theory it gives him/her the right to practise magic. But that doesn't stop a particularly asshole Witch Hunter from (attempting to) bringing him/her in on trumped up charges, if he thinks he could get away with it of course.
>>44287786
You can freely practice magic. But if you keep intimidating peasants rumors are going to spread and some witch hunters will want you investigated.
It's asking for problems.
>>44287841
Well that's the thing, peasants are usually going to say things about you regardless of what you do. You could look like a wizard and those field tenders will say you almost turned them into a toad. I just don't think a Witch Hunter would make any distinction between intimidating people on purpose or by accident, he truly believes that you're one spell away from summoning a horde of daemons.
>>44287841
Whatever college he belongs to might also want to know why he's terrifying peasants instead of doing his job. Wizards are still under the mantle of their order after all, and they spent precious time and money to train you, and you're gonna be helpful or be punished.
>>44287841
It was all sanctioned use of magic in the interest of the Empire, officer, perfectly permissible under the wizardry self-defence act of e2489. Do I need to contact my magister?
>>44287946
>Whatever college he belongs to might also want to know why he's terrifying peasants instead of doing his job. Wizards are still under the mantle of their order after all, and they spent precious time and money to train you, and you're gonna be helpful or be punished.
Thing is, once you're a Journeyman, you're supposed to practice yourself and travel, or are at least assumed to be doing so. Yes, they may send you on errands or on missions and you have to comply, but other than that, as long as you don't fuck up and you keep paying your dues, there's no "instead of doing his job".
And just as a reminder, we were talking about scaring highwaymen and shit, not randomly terrifying peasants, not that the distinction wouldn't be lost on peasantry and witch hunters alike, we should just keep it in mind.
It certainly would be tempting fate to put on a light-show every time you see something potentially nasty, for several reasons, and witch-hunters are certainly assholes, and peasants are certainly ignorant, but ultimately, the whole thing would likely be legal and not subject to lawful sanction.
Not saying that necessarily MATTERS, but c'est la vie.
>>44287553
Looks like they don't. But you get 10 skills with 2 "or" options as Apprentice Witch while Apprentice Wizard just gets 8 skills.
>>44288073
Point taken. So rather than a school skill they just are more well rounded in general.
Also: Holy fuck Ice Witch is the scariest bitch about. What with the Witch Marks, the Spell AND the fact that every single rank of Ice Witch gets you more intimidate.
Am I missing something or Wrath of Gods and Glacial Surge are way too harsh?
Minor manifestations seem very weak in comparison and even major manifestations seem slightly better.
It seems super stupid that something supposedly less dangerous than Tzeentch's Curse is actually more dangerous.
Seriously, Shallya or Sigmar hit you with d10 damage because you were trying to heal somebody? Dumb as shit.
>>44288370
The gods are fickle. Who knows, maybe you're trying to heal a child molester or something.
WHY IS IT that we've had four threads of nothing but WHFRP that have hit bump limit but we struggle to keep a Warhammer Fantasy General, in which WHFRP is explicitly called for inclusion on top of every other WHF product, from 404ing?
>>44288494
It's still incredibly dumb from mechanical point of view. I'd rather take 5 minor manifestations than one Wrath of God.
>>44288539
Probably because nobody cares about FB anymore. Everybody I know stopped playing years ago and their armies are just decorations now.
>>44288562
I think the point is that you're getting these power from your deities, so you have that additional spot light on you. Not all of them are bad, however, it's only from 76 and up that things get crazy. Whereas the more dice a sorcerer rolls, the more chance they have on getting Major or worse manifestations, like ones that can kill the entire party. In my years playing, though, I haven't seen any miscasts or wraths that have done anything more than hurt the caster a little.
>>44288539
WHFB general is usually about the game, like tactics and army building. Sure there's some lore, but that works better with WFRP threads because of all the stories that come out of it through adventures.
>>44288607
I use mine for WFRP. I'm painting up Skaven since I didn't have any of them other than a few character models.
>>44288696
Major manifestations are not even worse than wrath of gods. Catastrophic manifestations are worse but you can easily avoid them.
>>44287950
Wonderful thing about pre-modern communications
Good luck contacting your magister while we stack up the logs, we'll see who finishes first
Has anyone got a scan of the 1993 edition of the High Elves army book? It had the best version of the story or Aenarion in it. Thanks!
>>44288539
Soon enough wfrp will sink.
Meanwhile wfb will always be dead
>>44289082
WFRP, specifically 2nd edition because that's what the thread is usually about, has been 'dead' for years. Hell, even the latest edition is finished. So fuck off with that noise.
>>44289071
https://mega.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ!QMgEkZxC
You might be able to find it in there. Look under 'Older Editions'.
>>44289140
>You might be able to find it in there. Look under 'Older Editions'.
Exactly what I wanted, 4th edition was it, thanks bro!
>>44289298
No prob, brah.
>>44282819
Taal and Rhya don't have a problem with their priests marrying. Some of the groups are explicitly celibate (Celestial Wizards and Ulricans, for example), but most of the others have at least some married members.
Are there rules for pregnancy in any of the WHFRPG books, or do I need to houserule that?
What happened to Ulric in the End Times anyway?
>>44290117
He got murdered and his light was snuffed out causing men in the city to fucking pussy out
>>44290076
As in rules for conception/carrying/birth? No, you should just handwave some of that stuff. If this woman is going into the field, she'd need special fitted protection or any hit in the 'Body' area could end the child. I hope you won't be weird about it.
>>44290117
I think Teclis killed him, or something. I don't remember but I think it had to do with Teclis stealing the Flame of Ulric from Middenheim, or something stupid like that.
>>44290179
Nah, but I have a player who's playing a female character and has been blowing lots of money in-game on decadent orgies for the nobility. They've gotten lucky with avoiding poxes, but I figure there's other threats that can happen. I've already put courtly intrigue and assassination attempts and such in there, so I'm just trying to expand my options without getting too stale.
>>44283773
I wouldn't worry about that, dude. Everyone kinda goes out of their way to avoid the attention of the Witch Hunters, but there's no grounds to kill them both.
For a Witch Hunter to take out an Anointed Priest and a Master Wizard (if you give them three careers each) is a huge step, and one that both the Cult and the College would be very upset about, as they both are very active when it comes to policing their own ranks.
Those two would know that they are under the protection of significant powerful groups, and they have a fair amount of personal political power (any town in the Empire loves Taal and Rhya, and they'd happily help one of their priests to avoid a Witch Hunter).
>>44290260
In that case, I think a simple chance roll based on your discretion would be fine. You can throw out some signs, or even mention it if a noble doesn't want her to have his bastard. Interestingly enough, there's actually a magic necklace in Realms of Sorcery that prevents a woman from conceiving while she wears it.
What is your ideal group and adventure for WFRP, guys?
What have you always wanted to play but never got the option from a GM?
>>44287786
>>44287841
>>44288031
According to the Articles of Magic,
>No Magister may cast a spell or enchantment outside of the theatre of war and in public view without first being requested to by the Emperor, the Electors of Sigmar’s Holy Empire, or another legitimate employer as defined by the Articles of this document. All spells and enchantments cast without these permission may only be done so with and for demonstrably good reason.
You could argue that scaring highwaymen counts as 'in public view', even if the only witnesses are them and your party. It's definitely not a clear-cut 'not subject to lawful sanction' situation.
>>44290494
Five man party on an adventure that takes them to different areas of the Empire and beyond. Not focusing on just one type of enemy, and a lot of character development.
>>44290575
Unless you're being dumb about it, I'm sure you can spin "done so with and for demonstrably good reason" like your life being in danger. You might still get reprimanded, but I doubt the Colleges would let the Witch Hunters even think about taking you in if they had anything to say about it.
>>44290494
Ideally, I'd love to try out the Border Princes. I want to play a Zealot making his mad Sigmar fundamentalist kingdom (which he will declare is a new province for the Empire, with himself as Elector Count).
>>44290700
Depends on just how much you overkilled the highwayman.
'Set him on fire': Likely cool
'Dropped the Comet of Cassanadora on him': Likely not.
>>44290779
Even then, you have the question of, "Did you have to set him on fire? You've got a Slayer on one side, a Ghost Strider on the other, and a noble with his swords and the breeding to use them in the lead. Heck, you've got a big heavy stick to whack people with. Why did you frivolously entangle yourself with the skeins of magic and risk the taint of Chaos?"
>Party is two wizards, a shallyan initiate, a nobleman and a halfling servant.
Death.
>>44291812
>>44290332
Well, I can at least get a scare or two in before I dangle a quest to find that necklace. Maybe have them quest for a bit; most of the characters have just entered their fourth career, and they're rather successful and rich, but none of them are spellcasters so they'll at least have to commission it, which can be a journey all in it's own.
>>44281010
You could try other Fantasy books dealing with Kislev, but I doubt it.
>>44290117
Teclis stole most of his power in order to revive Tyrion, what was left empowered an Amber Wizard who fought and died when Archaon attacked Middenheim.
>>44292217
Eeesh. What happened to some of the other gods? I knwo the Lady of the Lake was outed as some random wood elf archmage who didn't even have a name in the fluff and was utterly unimportant to the grand scheme of things, but other than that I haven't paid attention.
>>44292250
The Lady is sick, at first, possibly dying. Then she turns out to be an Elven goddess. I don't know if they just got their wires crossed or if they forgot.
Also, Rhya isn't the wife of Taal, Shallya is for some reason.
>>44292314
Wait, Shallya's Taal's wife? What's Rhya then, just a random nature goddess? Is she mentioned at all?
And is the Lady an elven goddess, or an elven archmage pretending to be a goddess? I heard the latter, but only indirectly so.
>>44292381
I'm not sure if she's mentioned, I'm only going by what the WHFB threads were talking about during the End Times.
The Lady was an Elven goddess using the Bretonnians to become her 'sword'. She later became mortal, because hey this it's the End Times, but whatever.
I ignored all of this tripe anyway.
>>44292601
Jesus christ, fuck the end times. I'm gonna go back to the fluff circa sixth through eighth edition.
>>44292675
6th and 7th is generally where I get most of my ideas from, specifically after the Storm of Chaos ending. Back when Karl Franz was more of a diplomat than a warrior, rather than being a super saiyan.
>>44292731
Personally, I love playing with the idea of Karl Franz being a doddering fool like in The Enemy Within campaign. Makes for a nice change from a lot of the sort of heroic fantasy tropes that can crop up in Warhammer.
>>44293811
I wouldn't necessarily go that far, but being no better than his other Electors in combat made him a nice comparison to someone like King Leoncour. In Bretonnia, you need to be a badass warrior to become king. In the Empire, you need to use politics to your advantage to become Emperor. He should delegate, rather than being good at everything.
>>44292250
Taal was sickened by plagues released into the Empire by the Glottkin, Gutrot Spume, and the Maggoth Lords. After the Glottkin were defeated, Ulric, Shallya, and Lileath (The Lady) came together to heal him. He isn't mentioned after this.
Shallya was trapped in Nurgle's Manse as the Poxfulcrum. Under orders from Lileath, Araloth and a female wood elf head into Nurgle's realm to rescue her with the female wood elf ultimately taking her place as Poxfulcrum. During their journey they are helped by a writer (Hinted to actually be or be a reference to the author of the Liber Malefic), a silver knight (A reference to Kaldor Draigo), and a wizard.
The Lady is revealed to be the elven goddess Lileath. She fostered the creation of Bretonnia because she knew Asuryan would not countenance the creation of another race after what happened with the elves.
When Chaos first came to the world the elven pantheon tried to fight it and lost and as a result at least some of them were cast into the mortal realm. Isha became Ariel, Kurnous became Orion, Vaul became Daith, Hekarti became Morathi, Atharti became Hellebron, Mathlann became Aislinn. Asuryan didn't take a mortal form but I can't recall Lileath's exact explanation off the top of my head. Khaine was split into three parts, the Curse of Khaine, Widowmaker, and Tullaris Dreadbringer. He is reunited once Tyrion kills Tularis and wields Widowmaker. Ereth Khial was killed when Nagash tore Shyish from the Great Vortex and bound it to Sylvania, her remnants latched on to Tyrion's female squire that was part of an expedition to rescue the High Elf princess who had been kidnapped by Mannfred.
Ariel (Isha) is poisoned by Lileath as part of a plot to once again reunite the elves. What is left of her is later absorbed by Allarielle.
>>44293873
Part of a campaign I played had it revealed that The Emperor was just a sort of figurehead for another person who was running the show behind the scenes.
Turned out the guy that was running everything was a mutant, but not a Chaos worshiper. He was a genuinely good man who wanted the best for the Empire but he knew he could never become a public figure because of his affliction.
So he worked from behind the scenes to put someone he could manipulate and control in charge and then did his damn best to strengthen the Empire and make sensible decisions, even going as far as setting up Heinrich Todbringer to be in prime position to replace Karl Franz in the years to come.
>>44294194
Orion (Kurnous) and Daith (Vaul) die trying to protect Allarielle from Tyrion (Khaine)
Asuryan seemingly gives up most of his power empowering Malekith.
Morathi (Hekarti) tries to summon Slaanesh to ruin the world after she believes that both Tyrion and Malekith are dead. She is stopped, but she and Caledor Dragontamer end up getting pulled into the Realm of Chaos.
Aislinn (Mathlann) appears to die after calling down a storm.
Hellebron (Atharti) joins up with the united elves for a bit before being kicked out by Malekith and Allarielle. She joins a force consisting of Belakor, Drchya, and Coeddil, after this defeat she is next seen among Khornate forces.
Ereth Khial's replacement basically creates a haven under Lileath's instructions because the world is doomed. Lileath orders Araloth, who is foreshadowed to be the next Asuryan, to go to said haven where their daughter already is.
Lileath sacrifices herself to fuel a spell so Teclis can teleport the Incarnates and some of their forces to Middenheim in an attempt to stop Archaon.
>>44292381
Rhya has a temple in Altdorf in the Glottkin book, but that is about it.
Honestly I'm chalking it up to her existence ultimately being deemed of not much importance when you have Taal and when she seemed to only really exist in the RPGs.
>>44292731
He is still a diplomat in the End Times. He actually dies in Glottkin and his body is taken over by Sigmar.
>>44294458
He's still a diplomat, but he's also a warrior, and a general, and a leader of men, and he's special enough to ride a dragon. I think it makes the point of him being the only human able to do it, because he's super special like that.
>>44294508
The 8th Edition armybook only says that he is the only one who has ever dared to ride the Imperial Dragon because of his strength of will. He clearly isn't the only human who can ride a dragon since generic Chaos Lords can take a dragon as a mount.
I think the Imperial Dragon was created for people who preferred it to Deathclaw. A model was never created for it and as far as I'm aware Franz was always mounted upon Deathclaw. In fact the only appearance the Imperial Dragon makes in the End Times is when some Amber Wizard is being chased by a group of beastmen and he purposefully leads them into its enclosure.
