Putting aside all the hate for Spider clan, what other sort of changes are you all hoping for now that FFG owns L5R?
>>44230030
Nothing, really.
Since I wasn't there when the last thread 404'd,
>>44227988
The most popular way to bring characters from different clans together is to have the players all be Emerald Magistrates. Either they already are Emerald Magistrates, or the become them at the start of the game.
And to answer my own question, I kinda want to see more stuff for ronin characters. Their schools are kinda meh compared to clan schools, which can easily be explained as "their schools don't have the centuries of refinement that most clan schools have", but even so I'd like to see more ronin stuff in general, mostly because I like the idea of playing a hero-of-the-people ronin.
>>44230030
One thing that they should do is nail down their position on the Mantis clan and the minor clan alliance in the new canon. Did the Mantis absorb the other clans, or are they still a loose alliance? I personally prefer the first, but the second would also be fine, as long as they make up their mind and stick with it.
Also, if we could lose some of the recent weirdness with the shadowlands and the taint, that would be awesome.
>>44230363
I'd rather see the MCA return. Mantis as a great clan kind of eclipsed the rest of the MCs involved with Yoritomo's 20 best memes.
Taint was 'returning' to normal as L5R was sold. Kanpeki had a sulk over being named not!daimyo, sacrificed his waifu, and was on his way to proving the empire 100% correct in not trusting Daigotsu's "no more taint, for realsies" deal with Iweko. While the deal was in effect, the taint still existed, but had no symptoms unless it was willingly accepted. Even then, a few oni had worked around that; using pain to break someone's will.
>>44230512
If we get back the minor clans Mantis ate, I'd be pretty happy.
I would like the lore in general to be more cohesive, less retarded, and disavow the orientalism.
>>44230869
>and disavow the orientalism
So the game about feudal Japan, should be less like feudal Japan? Could you explain this one, please?
Also, they could probably get a lot more cohesive lore if they actually wrote it based on what makes sense, rather then based on tournament results. That was a cool concept, but the execution was rarely any good.
Might be nice to have ironed-out mechanics with a more predictable anticipated outcome and challenge ratings/difficulty classes/whatever the fuck they're called in L5R that are based off of those predicted outcomes.
As said above, I'd like to see more cool stuff for ronin. It seems like there's always brushfire wars, border skirmishes and shit going on. Why are these guys who've been killing people for however long not really fucking good at killing people mechanically? I like the idea of playing a hardened mercenary ronin who's bathed in blood, made it rain from the skies, and who's just so damn good at killing that he's near impossible to match at killing no matter how the killing's to be done.
>>44230030
More coherency.
Possibly a slightly better fluff to crunch agreement.
Shugenja who are priests rather than mages.
>>44230869
>and disavow the orientalism.
>CULTURAL APPROPRIATION!
Self-hating white privilege devotee detected.
>>44230990
To be fair, there are some very dumb bad tropes shoved into the setting for no apparent reason other than Wick being both a weeb and ignorant.
>>44230964
Shugenja are priests. Just because players play them as nothing but spell slingers doesn't mean that's what they actually are or do in the setting. The average shugenja spends their time performing religious ceremonies and blessing crops, not asking the spirits to throw fireballs.
>>44231103
I agree.
However, this is a case of the crunch and the fluff disagreeing.
There are a dozen spells for incinerating a person. There are apparently no benefits to a Shugenja blessing a field or marriage. This is a problem.
>>44231170
That's because "spells" are just cheatsheet prayers that get the same response every time. Blessings and ceremonies don't have mechanical effects because that kind of thing is narrative. Any effect it has is up to the GM. Warding off evil spirits might actually work. Or it might not, depending on what the GM wants. And there actually is a mechanical option for blessing a field. It's a "level 0" Earth spell (So even rank 1 Earth deficient shugenja can do it) that gives the narrative effects of a crop blessing and uses up a spell slot.
The other reason why these don't have strict mechanics is that when things go wrong, you generally can't just ask the spirits to sit down and shut up. You have to actually get out there and right whatever wrongs are causing the problems. If a shrine is in disrepair and a spirit is burning shit down because of it, you have to go physically fix that shrine before you can even start to calm the spirit down.
>>44231170
A larger problem lies in how, once you step outside "shugenja aren't mages", people have no idea what to do with them beyond bless fields and marriages.
They need better foundations before attempting to make them more than spell slingers. I believe making the kami more active and free willed would go a long way towards doing just that.
>>44231347
Warding off and binding evil spirits is covered under explicite spells.
Productivity of land is !mechanically covered under Way of the Daimyo, which does not include methods for Shugenja to be utile in this regard.
Saying something is purely narrative only works if there aren't existing mechanics to cover those sorts of situations.
If there are mechanics for a situation, then saying one group uses GM fiat to accomplish their primary function while another group rolls dice to generate a result is poor design.
>>44230030
Better card game, worse RPG.
>>44231416
The waffle on how interactive the Kami are has been a cosmological failing from the setting's inception. One I hope the new developers can ameliorate.
The effects of success in these rites are rarely directly
noticed. Normally, success means the spirits are appeased
and take no action, offering neither blessing nor curse.
However, when a shugenja is especially thorough, skilled,
or devout, or enjoys special favor from a supernatural
being (things represented in the game mechanics by
Advantages such as Great Destiny, Chosen by the Oracles,
etc), the power of the blessing ritual can manifest in a more
obvious way, either temporary or (very rarely) permanent.
Negative effects are also rare, but can definitely occur
if a samurai fails to undergo the proper rites, a shugenja
bungles the ritual or shows disrespect to the spirits, or
some other dire effect intervenes to sow disaster. An
unhappy ancestor or the curse of a Fortune are terrible
things to experience. As an example, consider a shugenja
offering a blessing at a funeral, seeking to aid the soul
in his journey from this world to the next… except the
shugenja is a cursed ronin, a man who has often shamed
himself with drink and failure of duty. He goes through
the motions of the ritual, but his heart is not in the words,
while his mind is only on his next drink. The spirit of the
dead man grows wrathful at this blasphemy, but directs
his ire not at the shugenja, but at his family who have
allowed such a man to oversee the ritual of death. The
family members find themselves haunted by a wrathful
spirit, bringing great misfortune on them until they can
find a way to correct the error.
>>44231631
The power and role of “spells” is more obvious, direct,
and practical than that of rituals, but even so, no shugenja
considers his prayers lightly. To simply call upon the kami
every time there is a minor problem or inconvenience is
to disrespect their role in the Celestial Wheel. Indeed, this
is one of the reasons why shugenja are used sparingly on
the battlefield, lest they anger the spirits by abusing their
powers. (In game terms, it is also part of the reason why
there is a limit on how many spells a shugenja can cast
in a day.) It takes both a tremendous effort of will and
tremendous religious understanding to properly summon
forth the kami and to shape them to a desired result.
Doing so haphazardly or without reverence may draw the
wrath of the supernatural realms, manifesting in anything
from a brief magical backlash to a serious decline in the
shugenja’s ability to cast spells.
>>44230030
I'd like there to be a retcon and keep the lineage in the Toturi clan. The Mantis clan can exist, fine, but the further along in the timeline you go, the more full retard it gets. Whenever I run the game, I always like to assume that the Champions of the Sapphire Throne maxim of the Toturis surviving is in effect, if I'm setting it in any later date.
So how would I go about getting into L5R? CCG? What set for a new player would be worth it? RPG? Is the system for it good?
>>44231659
And how many years after the core book was released did that splat come about to address this?
>>44231820
The CCG is dead, but the current projection is that the prices are going to jump while the collectors grab everything they don't already have, and then plummet once the serious buyers are done. The RPG has a pretty good system, but it's very lethal as far as RPGs go.
>>44231820
I will not speak for the CCG.
For the RPG, the 4th edition is probably the best edition so far, despite my incessant complaint. The system is pretty good for the setting with a few odd dangly bits which are easy enough to house rule.
In addition to the core book, you may want Emerald Empire and Great Clans, possibly Enemies of the Empire.
>>44231917
The CCG isn't dead, its just in limbo, like the RPG, while we wait to see what Fantasy Flight are going to do with it
I suspect we'll get a rebooted CCG and RPG, with the storylines tidied up.
>>44232005
They've already said that they aren't continuing the CCG and will instead create a new LCG.
>>44231659
Also, that contradicts the fielding of entire units of Shugenja as battlefield teams and entire schools devoted to combat Shugenja.
Internal consistency fail.
>>44231098
They could have some interesting stuff with the Nezumi, being a pre-Rokugan culture in the land before the Kami crash landed in their yard.
Unfortunately, it was easier to go the Noble Savage route, and give them a 'and then they returned to their home planet' ending when they starting winning too many tournaments.
>>44230030
I'd like the Mantis clan back, thanks. I can't mention most of my dislikes of the setting because we're putting aside hate for the Spider. I guess the last minor annoyance is that apparently how none of Toturi's kids had any heirs at all that could keep the line going. Really? Like they just couldn't stop for a few seconds and sneak some nookie in while all the crazy's going on?
>>44232579
Naseru especially has no excuse for his not siring "an heir and a spare." He hooked up with a hot Akodo wife and was marginalized for a bit by the neo-Gozoku, he should have taken advantage of the lull to bang the shit out of her and squeezed a few imperial puppies. But no, he had to go wander off and get his stupid one-eyed ass killed in the Shadowlands.
You know what I'd love to see in Rokugan? An imperial government weakened to the point the emperor was nothing more than a figurehead living off the good graces of the clans and doing little more than handing out meaningless titles in exchange for donations, and a shogunate struggling to stay relevant among clans fully capable of supporting and governing themselves completely autonomously.
>>44232579
>>44232687
The Torturis getting wiped in general is the point where everything goes to shit. I'd really like to see a retcon of that.
>>44233156
Nah, it went to shit a little earlier. Diamond, aka Megatron..err I mean Iuchiban makes it rain blood and taints a bunch of people until we bring back some dead guys to kick his ass was pretty fucking dumb. And most of the Toturi kids were still alive.
>>44232579
>>44232687
Toturi the First not clearly declaring a fucking line of succession, the first fucking thing a new dynasty should ducking do, was far more retarded than anything his kids did.
I get they wanted to pull the succession wars plot line out for the Toturi, but you save that shit for at least a couple generations. But no, the ever incompetent story team had to blow their load way too early and fucking TWICE IN A ROW, just making the whole Toturi line look like a bunch of retarded fucknuggets incapable of basic rulership.
I really wish they adopted the time skip idea much earlier in the game's history, as it was way too much happened WAY too fast making the already shitty plot lines even shittier just through the frequency that major world shaking events happen.
>>44233237
Fair enough. The end of the Torturis and the new Empress was kind of the nail in the coffin, as it were.
Another thing I'd like to see, if we are going to have the Mantis still be a thing, is some more minor clans to make up for the ones they ate. There's some neat ideas for alt history clans that could be worked into the main setting as minor clans, like the Tiger Clan or Owl Clan.
>>44233542
Personally I think the Mantis eating minor clans problem can easily be solved simply by letting said clans keep their individual characteristics and uniqueness under the protective umbrella of the Mantis name rather than turning them into "Mantis clan families" and erasing everything about the absorbed families that made them interesting.
>>44233534
He was about to do precisely that with Kaneka, most likely in a way that didn't cause outright rebellion and / or discontent among the clans / legitimately born siblings.
>>44233689
He dragged his feet on it forever and by the time he was finally about to get around to it it was too late, making him look like an incompetent and lazy fuckwit.
I guess AEG just didn't want the Toturi to last, or be remembered for anything other than gross incompetence.
>>44233689
Then he should have told his fucking wife what he was going to do and leave a fucking Last Will and Testament with her so if something bad happened his wishes would have been known. Instead he fucking makes her the regent tainting a whole fucking element.
Good Fucking Job Toturi, you colossal dillweed.
I remember thinking when the Toturi went belly up that it would be cool to have an era of warring dynasties that only last one or two generations each until eventually the heavens get off their ass and forced one to stick around. Would have been better than what we actually got.
People are gonna lynch me for seeing this but I'd love to see something like the Star Wars system in FFG's version of L5R.
>>44233836
Yeah, you should probably just hang your head in shame and quietly leave this thread.
>>44233836
You mean with special dice?
Yeah, fuck that noise.
>>44230956
orientalism doesn't mean actual asian culture. It was like the 1800's/ 1900's word for weeb
>>44230990
no it's just bad writing like why give us cool clans with different cultures when you can just make them all a different flavor of Japanese
>>44233916
Agreed, a game that is so heavily narrative doesn't need a dice mechanic that is narrativly focused, it's better to have crunchy systems for that.
>>44230363
I rather like the Mantis clan (Unlike some people) but I must admit I'd have liked to have seen 'All focus on the Yoritomo'.
Give some focus on say, the Moshi and their sun and sky rituals. Not just lightning.
I think there is a lot of room for Moshi + Yoritomo + Kitsune to have a very strong argument for 'Nature' as a theme. Air and Fire, Water and Earth.
>>44233973
You can do that without expensive specialty dice useless for anything but for the one game.
>>44233973
Don't try to be cute. Special dice are equivalent to day 1 dlc and "narratively focused" is usually coyspeak for "dumbed down". L5R already has good mechanics. It doesn't need to be paved over with a different game's system. We've already seen what happens with that.
>>44234030
>We've already seen what happens with that.
You mean, get a fun game?
>>44234042
>He thinks the d20 version is fun
Someone already told you to hang your head in shame and quietly leave this thread.
>>44234009
To have NOT seen.
Not to have seen all focus on the Yoritomo.
I am smart.
>>44234064
I actually meant the FFG system, but okay.
>>44234030
I disagree with your comment that 'Narratively focused' is coyspeak for 'Dumbed down' BUT I'll agree with don't need a new system.
Roll and keep is a fun, mechanically interesting system.
>>44234042
Not quite.
>>44234076
Requiring a ton of extra dice for one game isn't fun.
>>44234094
Try it. You might like it. There's even free online rollers.
>>44234109
Sure, I'll even admit that it might be fun.
But L5R does not need its mechanics replaced. The mechanics aren't a problem. And even if it did need mechanical fixing, altering a completely different game with a completely different tone to fit is not how you do that.
>>44234109
The thing is? The special dice don't add anything that existing dice didn't.
It's purely a method of making it harder for people to not throw money at them.
>>44234130
Well, the OP said what changes you'd like to see, and that's my take. I understand why other fans would not want to see a new system, but those are my thoughts. Take that as you will, in this place where we discuss games.
>>44234148
And we're going to tell you that your take is bad and you should feel bad for having it.
>>44234164
Then I shall kindly tell you to stick it up your rear.
I'm new to L5R. How do I get into the lore?
>>44234238
The 4e core book is pretty good.
Just remember one of the core rules of L5R: It's not Japan.
If you go in expecting it to be Japan, it's going to disappoint, especially if you know anything about Japan (And thus instantly know more than Wick, the creator of L5R)
>>44231416
The disparity between shugenjas in fluff versus how they're actually played is because at no point - as far as I've seen, at least - do the two come close to intersecting, which is just shoddy work by the authors. I think you're right that they need better foundations, but I also think the solution isn't complicated at all; the writers just need to find literally any way to contextualize the fluff/crunch gap.
Maybe the 9-to-5 crop'n'baby-blessing shugenjas are very common but only have the power/talent to commune with the kami and issue rites. Make those cunts a dime a dozen, maybe even certain lucky peasants have this talent, elevating them in the social hierarchy, but not so much that the Celestial Wheel would become useless in the fluff. Meanwhile, the firebally shugenja are the ones who:
a) are samurai, not peasants
b) have talent/skill well above the average priest
c) are inducted into clan schools to hone their gifts.
Creating a hierarchy for shugenja based on social status AND ability makes sense; it works for a rigidly-stratified society, and keeps the filthy bonge lower on the social ladder. Most importantly, it simultaneously explains why the average priest isn't a fireball-flinging badass and why the fireball-flinging badass isn't wasting his time with routine shit like blessings; the former has neither the mojo not birthright, and the latter has enough of both that more is demanded of him.
One paragraph of fluff would be enough to close the gap. In fact, fuck the current fluff, this is how shugenjas work in my games now.
>>44234581
There isn't much for a 'Fireball-flinging badass' to DO most of the time. More crops need blessing than fireballs thrown unless you are on the wall.
>>44234581
Technically, anyone who knows how can do blessings. Plenty of shrines are maintained by local peasants, who also perform whatever rites are needed to keep the place running.
But shugenja and monks actually have the education and connection to the spiritual world to make it really stick.
All shugenja are priests, not all priests are shugenja. Mr. Fireball still needs to keep up on his religious rites, because he's not actually throwing fireballs. He's asking a spirit to do it for him. The spirits know if he is actually pious and sincere about it (Usually. They can be tricked, but it's not a good idea), and they won't answer if he isn't.
>>44234581
That's pretty much how it is already. Way back at the start of the empire, anyone who could speak to the spirits and wasn't a dirty heretic became a samurai, almost by default. And the little kami basically can't tell the difference between the original guy who they found interesting enough to talk to and that guy's descendants. That's why shugenja ability runs along family lines. The kami listen to you because you are similar enough to someone they used to listen to. That's it. If a peasant suddenly learned how to do it, the general consensus would be that he has samurai ancestry and should count as a ronin at least, and any local shugenja would teach him at least the basics so as to not dishonor the kami by allowing their gift to rot.
>>44233836
Yeah, you should probably just commit seppuku, no offense.
Roll and Keep is a pretty damn underrated system. I'm honestly mad that they made it so that I can't have invented it first.
>>44234238
To preface, I haven't yet played it but I've been working on a campaign to run with seasoned players. So I dunno if my input is as informed as some of these people's.
It's like
>>44234285
said, it's not Japan. It's got a bunch of influences, but no matter which way you slice it, it's the kind of high fantasy that will feel very familiar as you start reading the lore.
I dug into the history since there's a fuckload of it, but it's a good fuckload. Same goes for the rest of the fluff. Just start with whatever interests you the most - politics, history, the Shadowlands, the clans, doesn't matter. Eventually you'll start to piece the lore together well enough to know what will matter most to any games you wanna run. Spend enough time with the books and eventually you'll even have enough knowledge of the material you AREN'T interested in that you can call upon it when the players inevitably bring it up.
Quick reminder that, as always, my clan > your clan.
Saying flat out "Rokugan is not Japan" is wrong.
Rokugan is Not!Japan, it is Japan, except where it's not Japan, and it's not Japan in those places because it's not Japan.
Y'all feel me?
>>44235194
Crane stronk
>>44235230
The same could be said of most fantasy settings.
Westeros is not Britain. It's also not!britain.
>>44235256
Right, exactly.
A good rule of thumb for "how does X work in Rokugan" is to first check and see if it's something that's been explicitly addressed, if it isn't, look to Japan. If the Japanese answer doesn't make sense given Rokugan's nature, check China, and failing that, make it up based on ideas cribbed from all of the above.
>>44235230
Not!Japan=Japan
Pick one negative.
One of the things that always bugged me about the "Rokugan is not Japan" mantra is some people took it WAY too extreme, like Rokugan can't be Japan-like is and any mention of Japan is blasphemy, like any and all Japanese influence is completely coincidental and nothing in Rokugan is actually drawn from Japan.
I haven't seen it a lot on tg personally but holy fuck did it run rampant on the AEG boards for the longest time.
There was a time there where you couldn't post anything remotely Japanese just to draw inspiration from without people screaming down your throat about how Rokugan isn't Japan.
One time, someone asked what daimyo war camps would look like, so I pointed them to some cool sources on Japanese war camps, and immediately got BOMBARDED with "ROKUGAN IS NOT JAPAN!" like I just committed some kind of great blasphemy.
This experience was not the first or only time it happened, either, nor am I the only one I've seen it happen to.
And I'm not one of those people who bitch about Rokugan isn't just Japan with a name change, either so it's not like I was trying to force L5R to be something it wasn't, just giving people shit to draw inspiration from the same with the goddamn authors do in the back of the fucking book.
Eventually a backlash against that interpretation started growing, and people stopped doing it so much well before the forum disappeared.
>>44233836
>>44233836
>People are gonna lynch me for seeing this but I'd love to see something like the Star Wars system in FFG's version of L5R.
If but we could.
>>44235876
The AEG forums were shit but the RPG section had a ton of great resources regardless. It's a shame AEG just deleted all of it without warning or giving anyone a chance to archive anything.
God, fuck AEG.
Wanna know a great feeling?
Revealing a family member as a member of the kolat and actually managing to fool your players until the reveal.
FEELS GOOD.
>>44237945
I thought there was evidence that it was just closed, not actually deleted.
Or have they since really gotten rid of it?
>>44238068
AEG said they might be able to put up some kind of archive snapshot of the forums before they shut down, but have since said and done absolutely nothing.
>>44238068
The listed post count is way higher than the public forums & threads, so I'd assume it's still there.
Anyone got information about ghosts and how the work in Rokugan? Like, do they ever possess people or attack them directly? CAN they attack people directly, and can mundane weapons hurt them?
Just trying to think of some spooky stuff I can throw at my players.
>>44240693
Get a copy of the book of void. IIRC, there's some good stuff for this in there.
>>44240723
This plus anything about the Falcon Clan/Toritaka family. Falcon or Crab, they're the ones with the most knowledge (And therefore fluff) of ghosts and other spoops.
>>44237958
Story time?
>>44237958
Seconding storytime request.
>>44235876
One of the problems with using Japanese style camp for a Rokugani camp is that Rokugani warfare is like no warfare that ever really happened.
The battle is decided by which team manages complete attrition against another team through a series of several thousand one on one fights.
Samurai aren't supposed to retreat.
Samurai aren't supposed to gang up on foes.
Rokugani warfare isn't really war when it comes down to it. Ashigaru make almost no sense in context, and Ronin mercs should be infinitely more important. Archery would be exceedingly limited, and used only against other archers...
>>44241631
>>44243631
Looks like the Kolat silenced him...
>>44231416
>>44231170
I think separating shugenja and spellcasting ENTIRELY would be a better solution, giving shugenja prayers that are mostly not about exploding people and then creating onmyoji who actually WERE Heian Era Japan's "court wizards" and spiritual advisors.
To whit; Abe no Seimei, the Japanese equivalent to Merlin in a historical-mythological sense, was NOT a shugenja or priest of the kami or anything like that, but was an onmyodo.
>>44234581
>>44234628
>>44234650
>>44234722
They should put in onmyoji for spell-slinging badasses and separate shugenja from it entirely, bring a bit more authenticity to the setting.
So guys, what were the strangest/most memorable player characters that you've encountered in your games, from a rokugani standpoint ? Bonus for good ones that actually fit the setting.
>>44243631
Thirding
Is a yari a suitably feminine weapon?
>>44233237
Yeah diamond was the beginning of the downward trend.I'm the outsider here as, ignoring spider mary sue bullshit (I did it for the crane clan why can't I for spider?) but post celestial was way better. Not imperial-gold good but head and shoulders better than diamond to celestial.
>>44245597
The naginata is the "traditional" female samurai weapon. The yari isn't particularly associated with them AFAIK.
>>44245322
Rokugani warfare is actually fairly similar to the warfare used by Heian Era Japan, where semi-ritualized one-on-one foot battles and cavalry archer charges decided pretty much everything.
BTW, this strategy was not particularly effective when the Mongols tried to invade; they fucked them up in every naval engagement they had with the Ashikaga Shogunate and only lost because a tsunami blew away their fleet through dumb luck.
The problem is that the setting's emphasis on samurai means it's war is based off the 11th century warfare they used in the Heian Period, but they had shitloads of samurai like in the later period when the Emperor was basically a figurehead.
The samurai during these later periods were modernizing their methods of warfare because, surprise surprise, when a warrior caste rules the culture they actually have incentive to actually be GOOD at the war stuff their culture revolves around.
>>44245597
Yari are footsoldier weapons.
Naginata are considered traditionally feminine weapons, both in Rokugan and real life.
>>44245656
>>44245623
but naginata aren't suitable cavalry weapons given how unbalanced they are for mounted combat
>>44245672
What the fuck kind answer are you wanting then? We've explained to you that spears aren't inherently biased towards a particular gender, but if you want to use a spear then fucking do so. Shit, if it really bothers you that much then tie a pretty bow on it or some dumb bullshit.
>>44230030
>Those thighs
>>44245672
Since next to none of the clans even USE mountain combat there are precisely zero problems with that unless you're asking for a Unicorn.
>>44245672
There's apparently some real world koryu that does mounted naginata.
Or just use a yari. Or a lance and go full gaijin since that actually has advantages when mounted.
>>44245858
One of the many retarded things in the setting is that there is no Rokugakj equivalent of the lance.
EVERY culture EVER has an equivalent of the lance as long as they have SOME horses, and the Rokugani DO.
>>44245879
Doesn't the lance only develop once you have stirrups? I don't know if Rokugan does, but it's not like a sturdy spear isn't a decent lance substitute anyway.
>>44245879
The description of the yari (p. 204, 4e CRB) explicitly states it can be used one-handed while on horseback.
You could also always use the lance, from the exact same page.
Or you could bitch some more, that's cool too.
>>44245959
The thing is the lance is mentioned as being of gaijin origin and only used by the unicorn.
Also the yari is pretty bad.
>>44245985
The Rokugani also didn't tend to favour heavy use of cavalry until the Unicorn returned, so I guess that pretty bad weapon has sufficed until that point.
>>44246009
It's pretty bad even on foot because the rules neglect reach.
>>44246027
Additional rulings have been made since the release of the CRB to address this issue. Also Rokugan Your Way. Another suggestion is not to use the yari, pick a weapon that doesn't immediately make you burst into tears, and play the game.
>>44246107
Where? I don't think i've seen them.
Also Rokugan Your Way is no way to address rules fuckups despite what the designers seemed to think when answering questions about rules.
>>44245322
That style of warfare is reserved for fighting against other samurai, essentially. When it comes to things that aren't samurai (Peasant uprisings, shadowlands hordes, gaijin invaders) the gloves come off and full-blown mass warfare kicks in. The Crab don't break their formations to one v one goblins. None of the clans bothered with "honorable" warfare when crushing the People's Army during the great famine. I never bothered with the later eras, but I assume the Army of Dark Fire and the Destroyers were beaten using "real" tactics instead of the glory grinding ones.
>>44230030
roll back the timeline to either the buildup to Day of Thunder, or the start of the Clan Wars. also, bring back the wargame
>>44246798
Clan war was the best wargame I've ever played. And L5R the best CCG. Complain all you want about the story, or balance but raw mechanics wise AEG did amazing work on L5R.
>>44245322
I had no idea that's how they do things in Rokugan. Damn, that shit's dumb.
>>44246764
Is that style of warfare even used against samurai? The battle stuff from the corebook seems like it's all geared for a much less formalized formalized war, and it seems like you're only supposed to end up in a duel if you run into an enemy general or a particularly noteworthy combatant. Otherwise, it's full of things like mounting a surprise rear attack on the enemy shugenja, or rushing to aid outnumbered comrades, or other stuff like that that doesn't seem like it has a place in this bizarre style of mass 1v1 fighting that's been described.
>>44249737
What he means is how relatively unimaginative Clan tactics are overall.
One of the major problems with Rokugan fluff is the Clans themselves and how is every samurai supposed to wear their "hat" and how this even carries over into their battle tactics.
Shit, even in expanded books about the fluff instead of going "here's how you can make individuals with individual personalities within the stereotypes of the Clans", it says "this is why all clan samurai from this clan/family are exactly the same and here's the reasons why they're exactly the same".
Example; Lion use infantry (Akodo), heavy infantry (also Akodo but wearing more armor), and shock troops (Matsu), because if you look at the rules those are the ONLY WARRIOR TYPES YOU CAN BE in the Clan thanks to how Schools work. They have apparently precisely one unit of light cavalry, and a few specialized Matsu units of spearman/javelin throwers and some chicks who sick lions on you. That's it.
Crab basically exclusively use heavy infantry and shock troopers, Crane have light and medium infantry and spearman, Unicorn have cavalry (and basically the only real cavalry in Rokugan for that matter) and light infantry.
Scorpion have light infantry and a bit of heavy infantry but mostly use sabotage and political subterfuge before the battle.
I know WHY they did this; if every clan is a unified series of stereotypes it's easier to get a CCG audience, but from an RPG standpoint and fluff standpoint it means their armies make no fucking sense; each one is almost stupidly limited in tactics available (for example the Crane Clan apparently have the MOST samurai because they have the most food production and arable land but have the fewest warriors because that is their stereotype, which makes no logical sense at all in a world where war happens between clans over literally nothing all the time), and any reasonable skilled tactician could defeat them at any point because they've pigeonholed themselves so badly.
>>44250337
Every troop type NOT found in samurai schools are ashigaru, who instead of being professional soldiers (ashigaru were like non-knighted men-at-arms) are basically peasant levies in Rokugan, to make matters worse.
From a purely logical standpoint the Unicorn should win next to every battle they get into because they have light infantry, archers, archer cavalry, and the only heavy cavalry in Rokugan while most of the other clans have no real tactical count to heavy cavalry since next to none of them have highly skilled archers and certainly nothing like professional pikemen, with most of their heavy infantry favoring (of course) the katana.
Oh, and nobody ever retreats because Dishonor, and nobody uses ambushes because Dishonor (attacking people suddenly during a battle? Cool. Before a battle? Uncool) according to most of the fluff.
>>44250337
The Crane don't fight wars. They have just enough military to hold off their enemies until they cry hard enough in front of the emperor/throttle their enemy with trade embargoes/ get an ally to help.
The thing with schools is that the Technique isn't the be all end all of the schools. Just because your technique is for heavy infantry doesn't mean that you actually are heavy infantry. Most soldiers are rank 1 at best. Skills are more important, and every clan has every skill available. Also, there's enough alternate ranks that even if you really are only doing what your Techniques say, you can have techniques for basically everything. Every clan has at least one cavalry technique. Most clans have at least one archer technique. Most cavalry doesn't have a technique for it. Most archers don't have a technique for it. That doesn't change the fact that they know how to fight while mounted or use a bow in battle.
>>44250473
You'd think that, but apparently AEG thinks otherwise and says so in their Masters of War book.
The one unit of Lion light cavalry even SAYS that it is in fact the "sole unit" of cavalry the Lion Clan legions have, not even fucking joking.
The entire setting is full of nice concepts but AEG's whole thing where ONLY the clan stereotypes matter and anybody else is a special snowflake who is having the incorrect kind of fun and reinforcing it in next to every book they publish is a pain in the ass.
>>44250473
>The Crane don't fight wars. They have just enough military to hold off their enemies until they cry hard enough in front of the emperor/throttle their enemy with trade embargoes/ get an ally to help.
This is the dumbest thing ever.
Literally an ENTIRE Clan adhering to a stereotype because their ancestors did it is probably the second stupidest thing I've seen in a fictional setting since otherwise treachery and politics is important in-universe.
It would take precisely ONE daimyo or Champion to focus on building troops to make the Crane the most militarily powerful Clan in the Empire forever, and somehow this has never happened even once.
The problem is that the setting was so tied to the CCG that it resisted any change that wasn't CCG-based, and even then the changes didn't really affect the clan stereotypes for the same reason why in Warhammer 40k the Empire can never fully fall; they need it to remain like it was when the players first bought into it or it doesn't work anymore.
>>44250536
It's said in many places that the Unicorn returning spiked the amount of cavalry among all clans by a ton, if only to counter the Unicorn. Before that they didn't really have cavalry because they're uncreative and had shitty ponies, but afterwards they all tried at least a bit.
>>44250603
You do know that the Crane's power is almost all political, right? And focusing their resources on more politics is how they keep their power.
Why the fuck would they militarize when they can use the nature of the political system to fuck their enemies from the courts?
>>44250626
Like I said; that makes perfect sense to me (fuck, why wouldn't the Lion or Crane just BUY some Unicorn horses and then breed a bunch of them for their own heavy cavalry? that's almost literally what happened in Japan in real life), but then AEG publishes a book about War that says otherwise.
Go argue with them about it, not me. Or rather don't, since it's not their property anymore I guess.
>>44250667
Because multiple times in the last 20 years of the setting has the court system apocalyptically fell apart. And because sometimes you need to throw down.
Basically, what you are arguing right now is that the fact that the Clans are literally all a single unchanging stereotype is a GOOD thing. Which actually I'd be perfectly okay with if there wasn't so much political backbiting going on in the setting, because that suggests a world closer to ours where important people grasp power when and where they can. The fluff suggests this too since it's happened repeatedly in universe; it's the basis of the original Clan War starting.
>>44250668
They do have Unicorn horses. The Crane have a unit called Doji's Fan that rides Unicorn War Horses.
The Crab tried to use cavalry against the shadowlands, decided it was a bad idea, and now reserve their cavalry for internal use only.
The Dragon clan had horse archers before the Unicorn came back and continue to use horse archers afterwards.
The Lion actually had the largest cavalry force before the Unicorn came back and did their best to incorporate the newer tactics.
The Mantis focus on their navy, so they have very little cavalry at any point on the timeline
The Phoenix don't have much cavalry because they perceive it as an offensive type of unit and try to maintain their pacifist appearance, but they do have a legion dedicated to using magic to go as fast as possible, which is strategically like cavalry.
The scorpion don't have much cavalry, but what little they do have is mostly archers and night riders.
The Seppun got enough War Horses in the wake of the Unicorn to have highly trained, if generic cavalry.
This is all from Sword and Fan.
>>44250667
Okay, a logical counter-argument; the Crane have enough money and samurai to maintain political dominance (because you don't need armies of courtiers to do stuff in court; in fact, having dozens and dozens of guys is less effective because their individual arguments are drowned out) AND near-military dominance through sheer numbers.
If they retrained over half of their samurai to be bushi, they could then purchase Unicorn horses with their extravagant wealth, make their own heavy cavalry unit in less then a decade of horse breeding, have a giant army from sheer population value, and STILL maintain political dominance because you don't need courtier armies to be politically powerful, just wealth (which they have), influence (which they have), and military force (which they COULD have).
So they could have a giant army and loose nothing but don't because reasons. The reasons being "doesn't fit the stereotype".
>>44250732
That's what the Daidoji and sometimes Kakita are for.
>>44250802
Counter-counter argument; many of their "courtiers" are government functionaries, artisans, and merchants. Many are posted to small, local courts so they have a presence almost everywhere. Many are courtiers only in name and actually function as law enforcement.
The Crane's actual duty in the Empire is to maintain the standards and culture. As dumb as it is, dropping their artisans for soldiers would mean abandoning their duty to become a more appealing target for the Lion.
>>44250812
So that IS your argument then.
Okay, I just wanted to clarify; I won't argue with it.
>>44250866
>As dumb as it is
At least you recognize how dumb it is.
I'd have less of a problem with it if the rest of the setting didn't seem to suggest actual feudal politics was a thing and if being honorable gave you actual Dyantasy Warriors army defeating superpowers, but they do and it doesn't as far as the fluff shows.
>>44234134
How would one do the FFG symbol thing using regular dice? I'm genuinely curious. Using regular dice for the game is a huge clusterfuck where you need to compare each die with a separate chart.
I'm also hoping they keep Roll and Keep, but I've had a lot of good experiences with the FFG Star Wars system. It wouldn't be the end of the world to switch but it would be a huge shame to see a good system die.
>>44250866
>The Crane's actual duty in the Empire is to maintain the standards and culture.
Curious, what does this actually mean? Do the Clans like...forget how to be Rokugani? And all the clans act pretty different anyway...
>>44250947
Your argument is missing all of the parts where they have various kinds of soldiers. I'd rather they keep being different, rather than all becoming generic fighty clans who only differentiate in what colors they wear on the battlefield.
>>44250978
Crane are basically meant to be courtly grognards who take it upon themselves to fight against any cultural development they think is unhealthy for the empire. In practice that means any development they didn't originate or don't like.
>>44250974
I'm of two minds with FFG's Star Wars system; on one hand once it's learned it flows really nicely and is very cool and mixes narrative and crunch almost seamlessly while giving both players and GM's great flexibility at times.
On the other hand, special dice is a dick move done for no other reason then to get you to pay them more money then you already will, and isn't even subtle about it.
>>44250978
Rokugan has a lot of rules of society. The Crane try to lead by example and get everyone on board with those rules. They also try to foster arts and performances wherever they can.
Basically this >>44251006
>>44250991
You're mistaking me; I don't want them all becoming the same, I want their differences emphasized without the difference being the ONLY thing emphasized and elaborated upon.
Example; Crane could have the largest army, easily enough. It could also still loose battles and be considered less effective warriors because Crab and Lion are just flat-out better soldiers and better tacticians and Crane armies don't have enough practice and their clan is less militant in general, they just have a large army because a samurai's duty is to know how to fight and they have the most samurai and are intelligent enough to know that relying on diplomacy as their primary warfare tactic is a really stupid and narrow-minded idea.
There; the setting is now more logical and still keeps its uniqueness between the clans and compromises nothing, because you don't actually need to be "all one thing" all the time to show uniqueness or interesting clan differences.By the way, what I just described this alternative Crane as is not only possible, it happened no less then three separate times in Japanese history and worked out entirely well. One of these times in particular changed Japan so that the samurai became the dominant force in the country.
>>44251015
It was almost certainly the intent behind their design, yeah. Some suit ordered the designers to figure out a way to sell dice. However, the way they actually designed the damn thing works really well. The special dice and their symbols means you can get a lot of details out of a single roll, including success and positive and negative benefits. Other systems can do similar things, like ORE, but the FFG way works really well. Plus I like the idea of adding bad dice to a pool to represent difficulty. Its origins may be really shitty, but by God does it work. I make the single set I got in the starter box work for the entire group, and everybody is happy. I can totally see why someone wouldn't want to shell out for even more weird dice, though.
>>44251006
>>44251023
This seems...fairly stupid to me, because it's pretty clear from most of the RPG material I've read that they aren't really very successful and the clans are actually way, WAY different from each other even in basic things like food staples and favored entertainments.
Unless these differences (Crab like Sumo, Crane do NOT like Sumo, etc) are what they foster? I'm confused.
>>44250947
Remember, 1000 years of peace is an in-universe conceit of Rokugan. They don't need a strong military because they "never" "go to war" with "anyone" and the official "records" prove it. They don't need a large military. Internal wars are artificially limited by Imperial power and a general culture of proving honor by limiting your forces and still winning. Even when they do fight, it's using relatively small numbers of soldiers with symbolic victories. Actual wars against external enemies are fought by coalitions of clans, and the Crane support those coalitions with supply lines.Replace words in parenthesis with "often" "skirmish over stupid arguments" "everyone", and "fanfiction written by the Otomo family"
>>44251133
Like I said; I really like the system.
I just hate how they implemented it.
>>44251175
That all makes sense until the storyline starts back in first edition.
After that it's 40-odd years of not bothering to change even though it's definitely time to change because...I dunno, reasons?
>>44251168
The differences aren't a problem. It's all acceptable and different clans having different preferences just means that stellar examples of culture and art are spread around.
Every clan has poets and painters and sculptors, fashion follows the Imperial court, you can find at least a couple people who understand tea ceremonies everywhere, and the Crane makes sure that all of that and more stays true. Sumo is actually one of the very few exceptions, and even then, it's a time honored tradition that at least one Emperor really, really enjoyed, and that makes it okay.
>>44251259
Sorry for the questions, just trying to get the feel for the setting; I'm joining a game and don't know much about it.
>>44251212
Because you can't just call back and reeducate half your population in a reasonable amount of time. The massive threats that would justify that kind of move would either a: crush you in the meantime or b: Be over and done with before you could even really start.
Those courtiers and functionaries aren't just lounging around and consuming resources, you know. They actually do stuff out in the courts, markets, and bureaucracies.
>>44251310
That 20 years after the Clan Wars end though, that's where the problem lies. 20 years is more then enough time to get anything done.
>>44251365
>"yay the clan wars have ended, lets beef the fuck out of our military, I'm sure none of the other clans will mind"
>>44250789
>This is all from Sword and Fan.
Speaking of Sword and Fan; it mentions that the "Soul of the Crane" formation/tactic involves using kakita duelists and doji bushi in concert.
Is there a Doji Bushi school I'm missing somewhere, or is this a fluff thing and I'm actually allowed to play a Doji Bushi that isn't Daidoji or Kakita trained?
>>44251365
Is it? I don't think it really is. Schools (That's capital S Schools, not just generic learning) aren't something you can just dump in favor of another one. An entire clan just completely dishonoring their teachers and schools would become a laughingstock. The clan leadership would quickly find itself friendless, and a ton of disgruntled ex-courtiers who had a lot of pride in their Schools on their hands.
>>44251412
Any member of a Clan can go to any of that clan's schools. Doji bushi means members of the Doji family that trained with the daidoji or kakita. Also, it's probably a typo that was actually supposed to say "daidoji".
>>44251259
Also Sumo has religious roots which make it acceptable despite the Crane not particularly caring for it.
>>44251390
Actually, almost nobody thinks like that.
In fact, I'm pretty sure nobody ever has.
>"Sure the world just gone done bleeding itself out in the second world war, but let's not build up our armies again."
Generally the first thing nations do when fucked up really bad a certain way is ensure it doesn't happen again; only actual idiots or insane people don't learn from their mistakes. I'm not saying "build up a huge army" right after the Clan War, but ten years to recover and five to build up a respectable force so they don't get buttfucked again so easily like the Lion and Crab did to them in the Clan Wars because they only retained a marginal defensive force wouldn't be an insane or unreasonable to do, just a fairly sensible one.
But my apologies, I meant to stop arguing with you and I'm still doing it, that's kinda rude of me.
>>44251412
The schools are named after families, and most of the students are from that family, but any member of the clan can get into any school in the same clan. Or rather, parents can get their kids into any of their clan's schools. The only exception are shugenja schools, since they require rare supernatural talent (Which is inheritable, thus the shugenja families).
Keep in mind that most members of a "family" aren't actually related to each other. Most are descendants of the people who swore fealty to the founder of the family, not descendants of the founder him/herself.
>>44251481
Clans aren't nations. The proper response for the Crane at that point should have been to build up Imperial power for Toturi and make everyone else indebted to the Crane to avoid the entire scenario repeating itself.
>>44251428
>I don't think it really is.
It really, really is, even back before modern technology. It took about 7 years for Charlemangne to basically conqueror all of Europe and institute massive societal changes.
People underestimate how quickly stuff can change if people get their asses in gear and start actually doing the work of changing things, and large political upheavals like the Clan Wars are catalysts for things like that almost universally.
But this is a fictional setting and like most Western fantasy settings or even just fantasy settings in general it's pretty culturally static, so that's probably not a good example.
>>44251449
No, Daidoji infantry is mentioned right before it.
>This rarely seen formation coordinates several different groups of soldiers, including Daidoji heavy infantry and light ranged skirmishers, Doji bushi, and Kakita infantry and archers.
>>44251566
Abandoning their political advantage to barely equal one of their two military enemies doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
Even if they fully militarized, they still wouldn't even come close to both together, but they would suddenly become a valid target for either.
>>44251606
Like I said here >>44251566, I can forgive Rokugan for being relatively unchanging as a setting, most fantasy settings are super static by design. Rokugan is mildly better in that it's history of human culture doesn't span like 5000 years of medieval history.
Though not sure how much of the whole concept that Rokugani culture is the only human culture actually applies when the not-Romans on the far side of the world apparently worship the Nine Kami under different names....
>>44251566
Charlemange didn't have to deal with objectively real ancestors that would be very upset when their descendants dump everything to build up a military. Sacrilege is a pretty serious topic when there are real supernatural consequences.
>>44251656
Rokugan isn't the only human culture. There are at least 5 or 6 other ones that are known. Rokugan is the only one that matters (From the Rokugani perspective) because non-Rokugani don't count as humans at all according to them. They don't care about differences between the non-Rokugani, because they're all just "non-Rokugani". Also, the not-romans are by far the least known of the non-Rokugani. They know the barbarians to the North because they aren't far away, raid once in a while, and sometimes even trade a little bit when no one else is looking.
They know about the not-spanish and not-portugese because they had originally traded with them until White Stag happened. They know about the not-Indians because of the Destroyer War and the colonies. They know about the desert cultures because the Unicorn wandered around there for a long-ass time. They have no actual contact with the not-Romans and only a few individuals have even heard of them (Although at least one of those people consider them to be a real threat and was trying to quietly prepare for it last I checked)
>>44251659
Yeah, like I said twice; it makes sense in-universe Rokugan never changes since western-made fantasy settings usually don't.
I think it's a simplicity thing; it's easier to just say "everyone used swords and armor and technology stayed this way" rather then go through the much more complex process technology in warfare went through in real life.
Shit, in the Sengoku Period Japan basically went from switching up to heavy cavalry as a mainstay to using crude musket lines supported by pike infantry in less then a decade's worth of time when the rest of the world took damn near a century to make that kinda transition, so that's an argument right there for keeping your fantasy setting static; the real world is fucking nuts when it comes to that shit sometimes and it doesn't follow the same logical progression everywhere.
>>44251742
I remember the Scorpion and Unicorn having bits that could be summed up as saying
>"So yea, if you ever see those Yotodai guys? Kill them as quickly as possible, because it doesn't matter how friendly they are; they ALWAYS show up and attack you after a period of observing your tactics while pretending to be friendly but disciplined mercenaries."
By the way, a Yotodai vs Rokugani plot would be a lot more awesome then just re-hashing the Shadowlands yet again; the Yotodai are human foes that could reasonably threaten all of Rokugan, have their natural magic immunity shit as well as the power to fight alongside their ancestors directly AND the Nine Kami might not be so helpful since apparently the Yotodai are their children too.
Plus, Roman Legions vs Samurai is just win.
>>44251742
Actually the Yodotai sent Mercenaries/Spies but Chags saw what was up and arranged accidents. Chags always was the Hero Rokugan needed.
Also after the Destroyer war some rogue elements within the Yodotai army attacked Rokugan and Maigo no Musha and were beaten back by the Lion and Unicorn in a rare alliance.
>>44251840
Another reason the Yotodai would be a cool enemy; they couldn't be defeated because of big magic plot reasons since they display resistance to magic and they aren't a magically united Shadowlands force that breaks when you kill Sauron of the Edition.
>>44230869
>disavow the orientalism
>>44233949
>orientalism doesn't mean actual asian culture. It was like the 1800's/ 1900's word for weeb
>>44230990.
>>CULTURAL APPROPRIATION!
The weeb 'orientalism' is just part and parcel of the setting. It's like saying you like 50 shades of grey but are offended by all the S&M.
Be sided if any culture is fair game it's japan.
So I'm getting ready to run an L5R campaign, is there a system anywhere in the book for balancing encounters? Like, DnD has it's CR system, is there anything like that for L5R?
>>44252025
Nope. Just figure out what your PCs can hit and what their Armor TNs are and work from there.
Here's a handy chart for how likely someone is to hit a TN based on what they roll.
>>44252080
Alright then. How much does Insight Rank play into how challenging something is? Like, is one Rank 5 samurai a fair challenge for five rank 3 characters? What about ten Rank 1 Ronin against four rank 4 characters?
>>44252025
Nope.
Basically just eyeball it and don't be afraid to pull punches. Fights are things you don't want to get yourself into, but dishonorable enemies will happily take prisoners and honorable enemies might stop short of killing you if you've proven yourself to be likewise honorable.
On the flip side, don't be afraid to swing hard either. A character that gets into fights should be fought. If that means getting bits hacked off of him, well, he should've been more careful from the get go.
>>44252138
Skills and attributes are far more important. Someone with Agility 5 and even a single rank in a weapon skill can fuck up any starting character. High IR characters are usually competent in a wide variety of fields, including fighting (Or at least defending themselves), but a mid insight bushi will crush a high insight courtier far more than the reverse because he's been putting more of his XP into hitting more often (Both accuracy and number of effective swings), hitting harder, and avoiding being hit.
Single Action Attacks (Bushi schools rank 3 or 4) are a huge jump in effective fighting power.
>>44251874
Wasn't Sun Tao actually suggested several times to be a Yotodai?
>>44252138
Not much beyond, do you have Simple Action Attacks.
In your examples...
The five Rank threes will slaughter the Rank 5, maybe even without casualties if they beat him on initiative, especially if they all have their SAAs. The rank 5 will likely kill one/round, maybe two if he gets lucky.
The 10 Rank 1s vs the 4 Rank 4s is closer. Mostly because the Rank 1s are likely to have trouble hitting the Rank 4s and the Rank 4s will have nearly the same number of attacks (10 vs 8) if the Rank 4s can get to targets with a Free Action move. Also the Rank 4s could SAA and Simple Action Move to kite the Rank 1s if the Rank 1s have no missile weapons. If the Rank 1s have missile weapons and scatter and focus fire, they will likely kill the Rank 4s before they can get to them. It really depends on the setup.
>>44252225
They hint occasionally that Sun Tao was a gaijin, yeah, though all the Clans claim he belonged to him originally.
The strongest hint that he was Yotodai is when a Yotodai Centurion recognizes a quote a Bayushi soldier gives him and then both claiming that either, and then that guy who was Shinsei's descendent outright telling them that both of them are correct about who said the quote.
So if he wasn't a Yotodai who came to Rokugan he was a Rokugani who went to the Yotodai, or maybe even a third party who traveled to both.
>>44251874
The issue with that is that 'supernatural resistant enemy' basically means 'If you are a Phoenix, Dragon or Large Chunks of the Mantis you can just sorta go get fucked in this event'.
Which makes it hard for all clans to get a good showing.
>>44252307
The Dragon have the Mirumoto and could put their heads together with the Phoenix to find solutions and support everyone else.
The Mantis are always kinda fucked unless there's a naval threat.
>>44232049
>Andrew made his wife into a card
I forgot this happened
>>44252374
And there probably wouldn't be a naval threat since the Yotodai are deathly afraid of the Ocean and consider it to be the manifestation of some destroyer god that they don't want to ever interact with under any circumstance.
>>44252307
Given that so far half of Rokugani wars end in "plot device happens, everyone stops fighting now", all I'm hearing is that the Empire would need to actually fix it's own problems for once rather then waiting for the Kami or Fortunes or who the fuck ever to end the war.
A stronger enemy that requires more creativity to makes from a much more interesting plot line then "okay, so same strategy as before, take it from the top".
Or we could just pull another ShadowBoss to lead the Shadowlands against Rokugan again; they've already done Kali, why not poach some other vaguely sinister Asian deities? Ravanna maybe, or perhaps Chai-Yu? I'm sure nobody is tired of that plot already.
>>44252557
>Fu-Leng
>Iuchiban
>The Maw
>Iuchiban Again
>Fu-Leng in Hantei's body+Tainted Crab
>Daigotu
>Iuchiban AGAIN
>Kali
It's like a fucking clock; you could set Rokugani calendars by the regular basis on which some Big Bad Demon Fucker unites the Shadowlands or leads otherwise Tainted armies to have a go at Rokugan and they're only barely pulled back from the brink.
>>44252557
Yes but you need to have a way for every clan to contribute if you want to sell it as a plot.
'This enemy hard counters you' isn't really a way to contribute (Doubly not in the card game where units with immunity to spells would shit all over both Mantis and Phoneix decks like crazy)
Mind you, has it been clarified HOW resistant to magic they are?
>>44252374
>The Mantis are always kinda fucked unless there's a naval threat.
they are less effective on land, but those marines can leave their ships, you know. Between that, the Wasp archers, and the Moshi shugenja , they'd bring something credible to the table
>>44252307
>>44252374
The Dragon and Mantis have plenty of regular troops though, with the Dragon being famous for their swordsman; it's really only the Phoenix that have the one-trick pony thing in all fairness
Besides; if you want to claim you're a pacifist you don't get to whine when someone walks over and bitch-slaps you.
>>44252632
Jigoku isn't very creative, it seems.
Then again, it doesn't have to be. The Rokugani can't really push back the shadowlands (They've only done it one time, at great spiritual expense, to push back partially to the old border after the Maw) and definitely can't close the hole between planes. Eventually someone will fuck up and Jigoku will win.
>>44252633
They aren't immune to it entirely. It's just way less effective.
Conversely the Yotodai have no magical support they haven't taken from conquered peoples; basically they don't call on the kami (no one outside Rokugan does, technically), but instead their ancestors literally fight alongside them and protect them from Magic by absorbing some of the effects.
It works better the more of them there are because the more ancestor spirits there are in an area the more magic they can nullify; basically those tough Roman military formations actually protect them from magic as well as regular offenses.
But I wasn't thinking of it as a CCG plot; I'm convinced at this point that there is precisely zero chance of a CCG plotline could ever be anything then complete garbage at this point, so I'm not expecting it to happen.
Plus you'd need to add a faction that wasn't a Clan and wasn't Shadowlands so it doesn't really fit in anywhere.
>>44252469
Well then, sounds like a perfect opportunity for the Tsuruchi to shine, especially since it's baka gaijin anyways.
>>44252828
Apparently by Rokugani standards Yotodai are freaky-effective soldiers though; that one rogue army basically cut through Unicorn lands and didn't stop marching until it got to Lion lands and then it took TWO Clans to put them down, and they weren't even a full Legion.
Then again, the descripton of the Yotodai makes them seem mildly insane; they're warlike even by Rokugani standards and make even the surprisingly violent real-life Romans seem fairly tame.
>>44252825
>Plus you'd need to add a faction that wasn't a Clan and wasn't Shadowlands so it doesn't really fit in anywhere.
There is that.
I dunno, I might just be bitter because I want to see the Moshi/Kitsune do something other than play second fiddle to the Mighty Mantis Leaders.
Moshi, Kitsune, Tsuruchi focus would be a lot of fun for a theme rather than 'Yeah, Mantis gone because the leader family died'
Honestly, those 3 have a lot more in common with each other than they did with the Yoritomo. All are odd nature-focused families that put a twist on normal clan focuses without being a complete change.
>>44252912
That and there was the element of 'We haven't really fought these guys before'.
A rematch they'll know the opposition better.
>>44252935
The Unicorn and Scorpion genuinely seem to think that if the Yotodai came in force that Rokugan would loose; the Yotodai have seemingly infinite numbers (apparently as of recent events the entire Burning Sands region got schooled by them and now officially is a satrapy of the Yotodai Empire) since they spend a lot of time seamlessly culturally integrating conquered people's and actively incorporate new and useful tactics, much like the actual Romans did.
Meanwhile the Rokugani are internally fractous, argue all the time, and hate learning new things.
But actually I'm equally interested in seeing how the cultures would clash with each other; their belief systems are actually fairly similar and their mythologies have some pretty remarkable similarities that would be fun to watch Samurai and Roman Legionnaires get confused when one prays to Akodo and another prays to Mars and they end up getting the same guy on the Prayer Hotline.
>>44253054
The Rokugani Fortunes and Yodotai gods actually being the same dieties worshipped through different names was very much intentional, and IIRC all but explicitly stated in the LotBS book.
Also remember Lion hold of, translates, and adapted a Yodotai tactics and war manual. It's easy to forget because it ended up amounting to all of fucking nothing, but they were ready for a rematch.
Personally I'd love to have seen the Lion get a chance to actually do something other than suffer from Worf syndrome.
Actually fuck it, next RPG campaign I run is so centering around war with the Yodotai.
>>44245879
What's the Japanese lance?
>>44254016
Just a Yari.
Keep in mind Japanese didn't do a lot of straight charges and most Japanese horsemen fought more like Dragoons.
>>44254016
The yari. It was just reinforced for charges. Sometimes the jumonji-yari (cross-bladed yari) to stop bodies from impaling themselves too deep onto the blade was used too.
The whole thing where we idiosyncratically name weapons of different types is fairly recent; a yari was a yari was a yari back then, and even the word "katana" wasn't in common usage since the weapon that came to be the katana was fairly recent and was basically a footman's version of a more heavily curved cavalry saber weapon, which we now call a "tachi".
Eventually "katana" just came to mean "sword" because the weapon that people thought of as swords were katana since that was the only sword made during the nearly three centuries of Shogunate peace, during which ironically the samurai had less reason to use weapons then in their entire history.
>>44245879
But there is a lance. It does 3k4 damage if used directly after a Move action on horseback and 1k2 otherwise. It's adapted from a gaijin design, but the Unicorn use it commonly.
There's also a wide variety of spears which can be used similarly, although they don't have the spectacular damage.
I wish spears got more love in L5R. I once tried using a reach rule similar to Sengoku where a weapon has an optimal reach and anything passed or within that reach was at a penalty, but it became a bitch to keep track of without a tactical map.
>>44254159
Well there's the wakizashi too. But Japanese sure seems to have a lot of words for sword, though they ended up having specific meanings.
Ken, which is used for the Buddhist two edged sword/religious symbol. But it's also part of kendo and kenjutsu.
Tachi, which is also the root for odachi and kodachi.
Katana which i would guess is actually quite an old word since the uchigatana predates what is now called katana.
To seems to be used pretty generically since it's used for the whole daisho from daito and shoto, and iaito for blunt swords for iaido. And Daito and shoto can mean pretty much any combination of longer and shorter blade, knives inlcuded.
>>44254381
The Japanese had a lot of words for swords, but the thing is those words didn't apply in nice and neat classifications like how we like them to today. A lot of them were relative to how a sword was worn rather than what it looked like, or how it was used, or particular to region, what word a school preferred to use, or just completely confusingly interchangeable.
It's like the odachi/nodachi thing, not all odachi are nodachi but all nodachi are odachi.
>>44254321
We had a simple houserule; attacking someone with a weapon with Reach with a weapon that did NOT have reach netted you a -1k0 penalty to attack, which seemed logical enough; it's harder to hit someone with the longer weapon then you.
Later Masteries with Yarijutsu increased it to -2k0.
>>44254381
>>44254472
Fun fact about Japanese swords; some folks believe that peasants couldn't carry katana (this actually only happened after Japan was re-united anyway, probably specifically so that Hideyoshi Hashiba could cut down on the over bloated samurai class), but the actual law says they couldn't carry swords if a certain LENGTH, meaning katana-length blades.
Kodachi were often carried by people who could afford it for defensive purposes because they weren't of the length of a full blade, and since they weren't part of a daisho they weren't wakizashi. A lot of the time later samurai stopped carrying katana entirely and just carried the shorter blade, simply because the full-length one wasn't as useful in urban areas (where they were almost universally more likely to be attacked, since there were no more open wars anymore) and it was just easier to carry around.
>>44254472
That's true of most cultures and their swords. Swords were generally just called "swords" in whatever time period in question they were used.
>>44254625
Well, samurai also often sold their longer swords in the late Edo period because they were dirt fucking poor thanks to the Tokugawa stipend laws.
>>44254660
Turns out lots of peace and having no job skills except killing people makes for crappy employment records.
The most amusing thing about Japan's love of their samurai stuff is that all of what we would consider the rules and standby of samurai culture and behavior became codified in an era when samurai were at their most useless as a caste and grew increasingly irrelevant as time when on.
Before then what made a samurai a samurai was often a lot more nebulous, and even Bushidi wouldn't be completely codified and written down until way AFTER the samurai basically didn't need a warrior code because they weren't fighting wars anymore.
You see that in a lot of warrior cultures in history, actually; the less relevant a warrior group is, the more special rules and codes they make up for themselves to feel elite when it's increasingly apparent that they aren't particularly special anymore.
>>44230189
Maybe ronin styles could specialize in stuff that clan bushi would never want to do, like ignoring penalties for having bad equipment. That would also allow them to fight with an oar like Miyamoto Musashi
>>44254769
Musashi fought like a dirty cheating bastard, it's a fact.
You know what his issue with guns was? Nothing. His sole complaint was that they were shit at close quarters combat because they took too long to load, so made lousy personal defense weapons.
Musashi probably would have LOVED modern automatic weapons because they fix the sole complaint he had with the teppo they used during his era.
>>44254830
Musashi's book was also considered nothing special at the time despite it's modern legendary status, most of it was just expounding on common principals. Dude wasn't even famous at all as anything but a painter until Eiji Yoshikawa's novel, and even in that he was barely notable.
That alone should tell you something about the reality of samurai combat.
>>44254830
No one had an issue with guns. That whole idea is fucking bullshit made up by some English professor with zero fucking understanding of history pulling shit out of his ass trying to parallel the Tokugawa's armament and stockpile laws with nuclear weapon disarmament and totally fucking failing because he's a fucking idiot.
>>44254897
Someone noted somewhere that for most of the history the supposedly honorable and dutiful samurai caste in Japanese history rather routinely acted like amazing shitheads and stabbed each other in the back for whatever reason, while ironically the supposedly "honorless" (to modern eyes) ninja and spies they employed were frequently unfailingly loyal even when they could've seriously had their lords over a log of they decided to switch sides at any point.
Ieyasu Tokugawa had his ass saved by good Intel and hasty escape routes laid out by his spies so mang times it's crazy; if even ONCE they betrayed him they could've been very rich and powerful men, but they always came through.
>>44255004
Thought Hanzo Hattori was actually a samurai in real life, not a ninja?
>>44255025
These things were not mutually exclusive.
>>44255025
In reality they're the same thing.
"Shinobi no mono" aka "ninja" was more of an MOS than it was some seperate class.
>>44255025
He was; "ninja" is basically just a holdover word (a weird since it's actually Chinese in origin technically) for spies and irregular guerilla troops that folks used back then.
The Iga Province where Hanzo hailed from was heavy on the mountains and forests so the samurai and soldiers there often weren't very good at field battles because they had no fields to battle on, but were instead really good at guerilla tactics.
There's actually references to the "men of Iga" being good at that waaay back in the 12th century, though this was before anyone in Japan used the word "ninja".
>>44255004
There's a fairly common saying among Japanese history circles that you'll be hard pressed to find one battle in Japanese history where the betrayle of samurai on one side or the other wasn't a deciding factor.
There's also a pretty popular story about how during the nanbokucho it wasn't uncommon for samurai to carry bottles of ink into battle so they could repaint their banners and join the other side when it looked like they were losing.
>>44255110
Real life was a lot more interesting then Rokugan; shit could get crazy there.
If Rokugan were more like life there'd be no "Clan Champions" and the different families would he switching between clans with ridiculous regularity and having high Honor would likely mean you were widely respected and also probably just a little bit naive.
>>44255171
Maybe we could get a bit of both through vassal families, ji-samurai could use a bigger role.
The big families are a more or less stable nucleus of the clans, but vassal families tend to switch (or change) hands quite often, especially those who happen to be in contested lands.
>>44255276
Or adding more daimyo, like regional ones ruling different cities and provinces instead of heading up Families.
The ji-samurai in Rokugan almost don't make any sense; they're clearly based off the historical jizamurai, but the way Rokugan in politically set up there's literally no reason for them to actually exist.
>>44254769
I'd love to see a lot more "generic" non-clan-affiliated schools in general. I always found the idea that it was virtually impossible to found a school with more than one technique without being descended from a God and/or having the resources of an entire clan to be total bullshit and just a lame excuse for lazy game design.
>>44254830
>Musashi fought like a dirty cheating bastard, it's a fact.
Well, Musashi's philosophy on fighting wasn't to beat your opponent, it was to win. Winning was all that mattered, it didn't matter what weapon you used or what methods you used, so long as you won.
It wasn't so much that he was a dirty cheating bastard as it was that he played to win, and didn't care what people thought of him so long as he was the victor.
>>44255445
>Or adding more daimyo, like regional ones ruling different cities and provinces
Already exist in the setting
The way they set up the small vassal families in Rokugan is basically just special branches of their patron family. If you think the pigeonholing of the big families is bad, you haven't read about the lesser families yet. On average, they literally take one single aspect and make that their entire reason for existing. The Kaiu have a vassal family that just engineers ships. That is all they ever do. They have another family that focuses on blacksmithing above all else. Some of them aren't so bad, and a few are even moldbreakers (The Raikuto vassal family of the Hiruma come to mind. They were the original Crab diplomats before the Yasuki came along)
>>44255539
And, as already said, his philosophy wasn't unique and was just the common thought among warriors of the time.
Remember Musashi just came off the very end of a period of near-constant war and turmoil. His philosophy looks revolutionary when you compare it to the greater Edo period, but if you narrow that comparison down to just his lifetime, he's just repeating common knowledge.
>>44255461
I couldn't agree more.
Hell if I had a choice not ALL Clan Samurai would even GO to a School: not all samurai trained in combat academies, and in fact most got their training from just their parents or their equivalent of drill sergeants in earlier periods, with fencing schools and combat schools only being attended by the wealthy and influential enough to actually enroll their students in the school.
One of the reasons schools like that were so prideful and so secretive about their shit (like Rokugani schools seem to be) was because it was HARD to get into one and so students were proud as fuck and defensive if their school's reputation was threatened.
If EVERYONE in the family/clan goes to a school and learns the same techniques then there's no reason to care all that much; it's basically just Clan Boot Camp.
>I always found the idea that it was virtually impossible to found a school with more than one technique without being descended from a God and/or having the resources of an entire clan to be total bullshit and just a lame excuse for lazy game design.
A lot of that shit was just them saying "play Clan samurai or don't play anything" and making more attempts to fit everything within the framework of the CCG where everybody was nearly organized into nice little stereotypes.
The story team and guys who created the RPG seemed at hate anyone going against what THEY thought a game of L5R should be like, making it a pain in the fucking ass to play anything but a Clan samurai in his proper Family school.
>>44255539
What's that thing they said in that episode of Star Trek?
>"Why to do Klingons use cloaking technology when they seem so obsessed with honor?"
>Worf: "They are, and nothing is more honorable them victory."
I think that nicely sums up most existing warrior cultures in real life; glory and honor was awesome, but winning was better.
>>44255624
Oh man, speaking of "play clan samurai or don't play anything" bullshit, go check out Wick's little sidebar on playing Ronin in his Blood and Honor game if you really want to get pissed off.
>>44255562
The ji-samurai don't even make sense because they're based off a caste in Japan that only existed BEFORE daimyo came to power and as soon as they did the jizamurai actually spent a lot of time revolting against the daimyo because the existence of the daimyo meant they were irrelevant.
>>44255624
>Hell if I had a choice not ALL Clan Samurai would even GO to a School
This is already part of the setting. Many, possibly even most, samurai have to settle for small dojo that aren't part of a greater School. Way out in the boondocks they probably don't even have that and their teachers are just the adults around them, some of which might know the first Technique of their school and *might* be authorized to pass it on as the lowest tier of sensei.
A School (Capital S) that actually has Techniques (Capital T) is something special. Anyone can learn to use a sword (Represented by the kenjutsu skill) and other such things, but only someone who has all the resources of a quality education at a good campus can learn an actual Technique. Player characters get that because it's better game design and gives them something strong and tangible to work for, but most samurai never have the opportunity to learn more than one, if that.
>>44255684
Bear in mind the term jizamurai was used through a lot of Japanese history but the definition changes drastically.
>>44255675
You know, I've actually met John Wick at a con before.
He seemed polite enough, but whenever he had an opinion on anything at all he became and insufferable asshat where everything he said was enlightened wisdom and anything anyone else said to disagree was ill-informed and crass.
He was like trying to be some kinda "Alpha-Nerd", which seems a lot like trying to be the coolest kid with Down's Sydrome; sure you could put in the effort, but you're putting in a lot of effort for a pretty shitty title there....
>>44255728
This makes more sense to me, but apparently "average" samurai are still ranked in the school system according to the Emerald Empire book. I think even random NPC's in earlier editions who were clan samurai always had school techniques in their listed statlines.
Actually, a lack of definition of what the "average" samurai looks like in each clan is kind of a problem too.
>>44255788
Well, if they're average members of a major family, they probably did have access to a full blown School dojo, complete with teachers that can pass on the Techniques. Vassal family samurai (Sometimes called Ji-Samurai, sometimes not) are much more iffy. They don't get their kids into their clan's Schools without wrangling some favors or concessions and usually have to settle for lesser dojo that aren't affiliated with a School.
>>44255728
It worked a lot better in older editions when Schools and Techniques were more additional advantages than the be-all, end-all of a character's combat effectiveness. Especially in 4e where SAAs are a thing and now not having eventual access to them means you are COMPLETELY fucking worthless mechanically.
>>44255562
>>44255624
>>44255728
Many things are part of the setting but not expanded upon enough or are lacking mechanical support.
For the schools i think i'd like to see advantages/disadvantages for it, though it should end up close to what ronin get.
Without a big rework i don't think there's much to do with advantages except perhaps give glory for attending a prestigious school or perhaps being allowed train more or less freely in several schools without having to mess with multiple schools and so on. Like letting someone who attends the Kakita Academy hop freely between Kakita Bushi and Artisan.
For disadvantages several degrees of incomplete access to school techniques from just lacking the rank 5 to only having the first rank or outright not having access to any clan schools.
If the system was redesigned with more freedom in mind (which IMO would be good for single clan games) it could be a bit more nuanced with better schools having more variety of techniques, lone sensei having 5 ranks and that's it, etc.
>>44255729
Yeah, but in Rokugan how they were used is the way that the daimyo made them irrelevant; they are sort of like freeholders or landed knights with less power and just a bit of land that they control, except the daimyo since they controlled the land that they control directly by law the jizamurai were basically completely irrelevant at that time, which is why they kept revolting against their various provincial governors.
>>44255892
In 3E you could always default to the generic schools, though they weren't necessarily worse IIRC.
>>44255939
I think older editions had stuff like that. When I was browsing through old books for fluff (Not sure of edition), I saw references to attending specific notable dojo within a School for various point costs.
>>44255939
It's kinda telling that my favorite character I ever played wasn't a Clan Samurai and didn't use any of the Clan Schools; I could literally make his personality whatever I wanted and it wasn't wrong for acting against my family or clan's stereotypes.
I found the experience immensely more satisfying because I felt like I MADE the character rather then picked a clan, picked a family, picked a school, then had my personality and character decided for my by these three earlier choices.
I only had one Clan Samurai character I liked as much, and he was pretty offbeat.
>>44255995
Even if you didn't you STILL got the basic school techniques.
>>44255986
Yeah, but IIRC before 3eR they were actually better than some of the clan schools, so that's why they're gone now and ronin schools suck major ass in 4e, taking shit in the extreme opposite direction.
>>44256088
I included them in 4e because fuck you AEG, I'll let my players play a ronin if they fuckin' want to and they can be just as good as anybody else.
>>44254762
So much "Lore" samurai behavior comes from "Hagakure", which was written by some old angry grognard samurai in the 18th century who was super butt devastated things weren't like in the "good old days".
>>44254830
Didn't he actually ENDORSE guns, if used from a castle wall?
>>44256262
That was pretty much every samurai during those days.
I think a really good movie showing the problems of the era (along with having some really kickass action scenes) is 13 Assassins, because they point out that 13 guys isn't much of a kill squad but these 13 guys are basically the only guys they could find that had any ACTUAL combat experience.
Their leader (who is implied to have been an assassin for the bakufu) gets kinda creepily excited about going off on this suicide mission to kill this psychotic lordling because "it means I can die a warrior in this era of peace".
>>44255675
What's it say?
>>44256288
Yup. Or in formation, or on a battlefield.
Musashi was a "use whatever works" kinda guy, when it comes to combat philosophy.
One notable duel of his had him see that they sent 10 guys after him, thinking to kill him if they beat the person he was challenging to prevent word from getting out.
Seeing this, Musashi gets out a fucking bow and parks his ass on a rooftop and starts killing them from afar until they all run away, then cuts them off and ambushes them one by one until he finally got to the guy he wanted to fight.
Musashi didn't give a FUCK about Bushido, he was born before it was invented.
>>44256441
This is why I like setting my L5R games in times of turmoil (Great Famine a best), when the rules are broken down and not much of a concern. Players get way more creative.
>>44256393
Just read this thing about it;
http://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/traveller/bloodandhonor/
It's pretty appalling, especially since it's full of stuff that Wick seems to think is universally good gaming advice.
>>44256481
I am feeling an urge to kill this man's car and steal his dog.
>>44256479
Yeah, the game was a very small-scale personal sort of samurai story with none of the Great Clans shit; everything was about smaller families, individual plots and the smaller consequences with heavy emphasis on our characters and their individual pasts and personalities.
There were Shadowlands elements, but the Shadowlands themselves never showed and were never mentioned (maybe they didn't even exist for the purposes of the game now that I think of it), and the monsters were instead "things of Jigoku" rather then vanguard monsters of Fu-Leng or Daigotsu; the Hannya haunting the bridge, the oni in the mountains, the kappa in the river, the jorogumo in the woods, etc. They felt less like Shadowlands and more like proper Yokai.
Arguably it was less like Rokugan then any other L5R game I've ever played, but it's also the ONLY L5R game that I played it that ever got to resemble anything like an actual samurai story at any point during the playing of it.
>>44256506
I understood that reference.
>>44256506
Why not steal his car and kill his dog with it and just do the complete package?
>>44256506
Like I said up here >>44255737, I met him once and he just seemed like an asshat to me, the kind of guy I would genuinely avoid actually playing a game with.
>>44256481
>http://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/traveller/bloodandhonor/
>Combat itself starts when someone calls "Strike!" at the table. No initiative rolls or anything, because that's how violence works.
Oh dear lord its Age of Sigmar all over again. Do you get bonuses for wearing a katana to the table?
>>44256779
What I love is that he's a gigantic weeaboo but knows as much about Japan as the guy who wrote this song http://youtu.be/f7yE8TKUB_M and scene knew about Native Americans.
Except now Wick's got no excuse because Wikipedia exists and he knows less then what it can teach you.
>>44256506
There's a follow up game from a different author called World of Dew, based on Blood and Honor's base mechanics but focused on playing Ronin and yakuza and other lowlifes, and it seems pretty cool. The elevator pitch is stylized Japanese noir.
>>44256481
>So you want to play a wave man, eh? Okay. Here are the rules. Make a character. You get no Clan points. All your equipment is poor quality. You have no horse, no food, nothing. Oh, and samurai treat you like a coward. You didn't have the courage to kill yourself when your daimyo died. Playing a ronin is the modern equivalent of playing a homeless person in modern America.
Nigga that's retarded on so many levels I don't even know where to begin. For one, ronin most certainly were not that bad. Motherfucking Musashi was a ronin, he wasn't poor and starving. If you could fight, you could probably get a job.
Second, if someone wants to play a certain concept you shouldn't shit on them as punishment for having badwrong fun, you should work with them to make their concept work. It's one thing if they come to you with a retarded concept, but wanting to play a ronin does not fall in that category.
Wow that actually rustled my jimmies. This was the nigga in charge of L5R or something? Glad he's gone then.
>>44257062
>This was the nigga in charge of L5R or something? Glad he's gone then.
He literally created the game and setting.
Any weird asanine rule that doesn't allow you to be something or restricts you to a very specific thing when playing a character or element of the setting that STRONGLY encourages you to not play anything but what they tell you?
Well you can thank him for the original version of it back in 1e that stuck around until 4e
>>44256610
I'm sorta curious what characters your group had to make this kinda game work.
