40k lore question.
Soul is a very real and a very importan thing in W40k, so I was wondering - what happens to one's soul when said person is transformed into a servitor?
Remember that they are portrayed differently in different sources, but basicaly they are lobotomised humans, not just robots with fleshy parts.
I kinda feel that asking when does a sevitor stop being a human and becomes a machine, amd his soul departs his body, is similar to asking when does a fetus become a human and is killed, not aborted...
It's still very much there. Hell, it's probably there even when living tissue is used in lieu of computers in various tech. While the "machine spirit" might only get about as smart as a dog that's probably the ultimate source of it. They have living parts inside them, it probably attracts or grows a soul (or however souls form in 40k) and warp magic takes care of the rest.
You could ask the same question about, say, any member of the adeptus mechanicus. They love replacing their own bodies with machine parts. I think the answer is really, "when they can no longer be corrupted by chaos". I've never heard of that happening, though.
>>44219485
There's no hard answer. If you ask two different tech priests, you'll get at least two answers.
>>44219485
Servitors are essentially zombies, except it's electronic reanimating them rather than sorcery. Soul departs the body during the process of transformation.
>>44219547
No it doesn't, that's the entire point of using servitors rather than robots and AI.
In 40K, machines have no soul and can therefore be easily corrupted by Chaos. AIs are particularly vulnerable to this, and in the dark past before the Imperium, chaos-corrupted AIs tried to wipe out humanity. To prevent this, servitors are used for smaller tasks, because they still have a soul and are thus more resistant. More capable machines, with a strong machine spirit, must have some sort of human interface - for example, a Titan has the crew that are plugged in.
>>44220471
>In 40K, machines have no soul and can therefore be easily corrupted by Chaos.
I never understood how that made any sense. Shouldn't it be the opposite? With no soul, and no warp presence, they should be stronk against corruption.
>>44220537
Necrons are active anti warp matter, regular matter can be corrupted with no problem, ie bothers, power armor and vehicles.
A mind having a line of thought such as a servitor trying to do his task will make him more resistent actually.
Its like the orc/grey knight/tyranid gestalt, everybody has the same thought, chaos cannot corrupt because it cannot place chaos content on it due to its simple mindedness.
>>44220642
So why not just create single minded machines?
>>44220675
That is a low quality cherub, or a gun servitor whose mind pattern is "shoot this,shoot that and stop" depending of the tech-priest order.
>>44220537
Think of it like this: a machine is a bunch of bricks. You can do whatever you want with the pieces.
A being with a soul is a bunch of bricks that have been mortared together. You can still take them apart and use them for whatever, but it's a lot more difficult.
Servitors and such are in some ways more resistant, because they have a soul but little ability to be corrupted by promises of power, sensation, etc. that a normal human might fall for.
A machine with a weak machine spirit, like your everyday lasgun, could theoretically be corrupted by chaos, but it would be difficult for it to do much with it. A machine like a leman russ is somewhat easier, because of the advanced machine spirit. An automated factory, or an AI in a android shell, would both be really easy targets that a lot could be done with.
>>44219485
>His tainted soul us intermingled with that of the Omnissiah and cleansed of its fleshy sins and wants<
>Truly the fate of servitor is too good for most<
>To exists as one with the machine<
>No doubts or loyalties to lesser causes, there is only duty, linear progress, only 1-0<
>>44220537
Yeah right, I'm thinking this- surely warp beings find it easier to latch onto a thing with a warp presence
>>44219485
Probably becomes a component of the Machine Spirit, or is just consumed by it given that some contain bits of Daemons and other unpleasant things. Fate worse than death, I have no mouth but I must scream etc, et al, ad infinitum
>>44220537
From what I have read of the lore, the machine spirits are formed from thousands of shards of AI's, programs, human minds and daemons that all got smashed up and glued back together randomly during the war on mars in the age of strife. They are semi-intelligent, sometimes malevolent and the reason that the rituals are required to make them work is that they are tempermental as hell unless treated right. The imperium lacks the knowledge, time or resources to fix these issues, and so just copy/pastes the machine spirits of existing artefacts into new ones so that the rituals keep working.
Because the machines have a mixture of souless and soul-like components of their spirits they have a warp presence and can be corrupted. They can also be posessed by Daemons naturally or have one forced in by a warpsmith
>>44220675
They do. Vehicle AIs like Land Raiders have are such examples. Also possibly servo skulls.
Hey, do servo skulls use human brains to power their computer, or do they just make them out of skulls because skulls are not in short supply?
It would make sense if it was basically a floating servitor, but it also might be a robot, or just depend on the tech priest who built it.
>>44219535
Nah, they'll both kill you for asking about how tech works.
>>44223696
Wow. That is way lamer than what I thought.
I always thought the Machine Spirit was just the tech priests' personification of machinery born from a lack of the underlying theory of much of what they maintain and produce.
They claim machines have souls or "spirits" and the often temperamental nature of complex machines, like tanks, starships, and even bolters seems to back this up.
That was always my favorite part about tech priests.
>>44223805
Well the sacred unguents are ultrapure oil and machine grease.
So they might as well just be old machines, it's left muddy by design.
Some workers on forgeworlds do have a purely mechanical aptpeoack to machines.
So rather than the prescribed "chant, grease, chant, massage, chant, read 2000 page tome of annotations on tightening of bolts, retry and give up."
They use the worldly "grease, swear, apply a smack with a hefty spanner, swear more, hit more, pray and hit again."
Out of sight of the devout of course.
>>44219485
According to most of the fluff I've read, the brutal mind-scrubbing process which servitors undergo, before having massive chunks of their brain replacd with cybernetics, sets their soul free.
>>44219530
>"when they can no longer be corrupted by chaos"
Apparently the Grey Knights don't have souls.
>>44223912
The Spirit of Eternity's AI told techpriests that there are no machine spirits and that admech was wrong about everything.
It might have been lying to mess with the techpriests but it certainly didn't have any problem taking over servitors and jamming power armors.
>>44223912
>aptpeoack
You know, typing or saying occasional nonsense words without noticing is a common early sign of brain hemorrhage.
>>44224157
For some reason thats how "approach" came out.
>>44223972
No, they wouldn't be able to use psychic powers if they didn't. What they DO have is hexagrammical wards inscribed in their freaking BONES that will instantly incinerate them if they're corrupted
>>44224177
Except the rare cases when they don't, which in a infinite universe with warp shit is all the time.
>>44224220
There aren't infinite grey knights though
>>44223805
Sometimes it's that, and sometimes it's low level AIs getting confused for machine spirits, and sometimes it's all those centuries of rituals twisting around the warp essence of the dog brain that forms the core of the machine
>>44224230
Sure there are.
Whenever they do a warp transition they are everywhere and everywhen and may well emerge next to a thousand wrecked versions of themselves, all dead of every potential cause.
>>44224253
Schroedingeir's Grey Knight?
Untouchables are immune to Chaos and still have souls. You can argue that they don't, but they wouldn't be alive if they weren't.
Illuminated and Exorcists are also immune to Chaos thanks to the expulsion of a Daemon from their bodies.
>You cannot trust AI they are very vulnerable to Chaos corruption!
>mfw there are virtually no cases of Necron AI being corrupted by Chaos
>mfw Necron fighting Chaos incursions haven't be shown to be possessed or corrupted
>the AI and machine driven race of the Necrons are among the contenders for the galactic cup
/tg/ and their headcanon.
>>44224459
That's because the Necron aren't AI dipshit. They're souls transferred to necrodermis bodies.
>>44224459
>What are Men of Iron?
Servitors get corrupted all the time though.
Pretty sure the tomb computers which are 100% AI and all the cenoptek constructs are just plain old AI.
>>44224459
I'd say that a human AI isn't a Necron AI, the Necron fought the Old Ones and the Eldar both of whom make extensive use of warp power, presumably they found a way to protect themselves. On the other hand, there was a BL novel about a factory making Men of Iron being corrupted by chaos (can't remember the name).
>>44224459
>>44224521
Necron are the anti-Chaos faction. Their stuff is Chaos proof.
Still never seen Tau fall to Chaos though.
>>44223790
unless you're also a tech priest
>>44219530
Chaos can corrupt the machine as surely as the flesh. Never falter, brothers! Revere the Omnissiah and serve Him in all things!
>Obliterators much?
>>44224459
Necrons had far more time to work with their stuff before Chaos came knocking.
>>44224536
Too young, still too primitive. Or Tzeentch is planning something big.
>>44220537
>With no soul, and no warp presence,
Soul and warp presence are two separate qualities. Over time and use, any object can develop a warp presence. A totally ordinary knife used to kill thousands will, over time, reflect that use in the Warp, eventually attracting daemonic attention.
Daemons can influence anything with a warp presence. A soul, by nature, always has a warp presence, and over the many and myriad acts of life a soul develops an intricate and comparatively powerful warp presence which makes it attractive to daemons.
The key difference between the soul and a warp presence is that the soul contains a will, and is able to exert that will (to greater or lesser extent) on the Warp. This allows a soul to resist a daemon's control, or at least attempt to.
An AI, meanwhile, lacks a soul, and thus it's will and warp presence are split. The AI lacks the interface to exert it's will on the Warp, leaving it helpless to resist outside action against it's warp presence.
More important question, how would the Imperium deal with John Xenos?
>>44225139
Who?
Is that some gameshow character?
>>44225139send in Roman ReignsBBY GIRL
>>44220675
They do. AIs are tech-heresy.
>>44224521
Necrons are made out of chaos-proof Necrodermis.
Why is Necrodermis chaos-proof? Because science.
