What exactly was the historical advantage of aluminum?
Also, how could aluminum be used in a fantasy setting?
It has been mentioned many times that aluminum is analogous to mithril, but would aluminum or aluminum alloys be effective for armor or weapons?
Aluminum wasn't necessarily advantageous in and of itself. It was simply extremely difficult (though not impossible) to smelt it for an extremely long time, therefore it was a sign of wealth and power to have any of it at all, let alone "waste" it in a weapon or armor as detail. It wasn't all that useful for how rare and valuable it was, it was purely a status symbol.
Fun fact: the Washington Monument was originally designed to have an aluminum cap, because it was still seen as a metal of wealth at the time of its design (or maybe it was the Capitol building? I can't remember).
>>44182484
The Washington monument does have an aluminum cap which was placed on the monument in 1884 n 1898 the Bayer process was discovered which made aluminum among the cheapest metals.
>>44182420
Anyone know the geographic and historical origin of this helmet? It's pretty cool looking.
Aluminum by itself is pretty bad for armor. Certain aluminum alloys might be passable, but they'll still have more give than is healthy. On the plus side, they're light as fuck, so there's something at least.
The best use for something like that is in laminated plates. Use steel for the big, important plates, and a sturdy aluminum alloy for some of the less vital plates. Laminate them all so nobody can tell the difference (And therefore the weakness of some areas), and you have fairly effective armor that weighs less than it should. With something like the modern aluminum handling processes, it will also be cheaper than it should be. Without those processes, it will be exorbitantly expensive.
>>44182420
AHL-LOO-MIIN-EE-UHM
>>44182420
Well it's used nowadays for arrows. and with it's lightness it could be useful for armoring extremities like hands, feet, shins and wrists. Weight on extremities is exponentially more tiring than when it's on your shoulders, and it's hard to get the kind of leverage needed to really smash into them. Aluminum in gauntlets could provide enough of a buffer to stop your hand getting sliced, while any blow strong enough to cut through it would probably have smashed your hand to bits anyways.
But other than that it wouldn't be useful in weapons/armor beyond ornamentation.
For mundane uses, just look at what we do with it now, lots of food industry applications, as well as it's near unbeatable ability to be cast (when combined with it's nontoxicity and low melting point that is)
Would canning dramatically alter siege warfare and warfare in general?
>>44182722
It was originally worn by Sir Spook of Skellington
>>44182847
You know that aluminum is actually correct? The English changed the spelling to match "sodium," etc. but the original Latin spelling is aluminum.
Not that it actually matters, though, since language is democratic.
>>44182949
>canning
What?
>>44182949
Well, it would make it easier to march an army at weird times of the year and might extend the range of an army a bit due to better compression, but it doesn't do much for the required supply train or inclement weather mucking things up.
Sieges could theoretically last a little longer, but honestly not by much. Canned food takes up a less space than salted food does, so you could have more of it on hand, but the extra shelf life wouldn't really be much of a factor in big sieges (And small sieges still wouldn't have enough food to hold out for significant amounts of time). The big advantage when it's not being dragged along behind an army is that it tastes better and probably has less rats/bugs in it, which might increase morale a little bit and maybe cut down on disease a tad.
>>44183023
I assume that he means literally using sealed metal cans, rather than the jars that are actually used in low-tech canning.
>>44182420
>the historical advantage of aluminum
Good for alloys, particularly in things that required high performance but light weight, namely aircraft. Reminder that the plane here is as old or more likely older than most people on this board's parents.
Really not good for personal armour or weapons though. For armour it needs additional thickness compared to the steel equivalent, which brings in problems of bulk and heat retention, and for weapons aluminium just doesn't have the right qualities. The lightness can actually work against it because it's quite good to have some extra weight behind a hit (up to a point).
Titanium would theoretically be quite good personal armour but it'd need quite intricate set-ups in the alloying, layering and shaping. It was tried in reenactment battles some years back and people wearing what should have been good solid yet light plate armour were getting injuries, which was later found out to be the titanium plate deforming (and snapping back into place like it was nothing, which made it hard to track down the cause, needing high speed cameras) which meant the a lot of the force just getting transferred to the person whilst the armour held.
It's a little bit disappointing but steel in it's many forms is really the best we can do for old style armours that deal with melee weaponry and some archery, especially if factoring in costs and the like. KM could probably poop out a brick of metallurgy knowledge on this if he's around still. But fantasy materials don't really have direct analogues, or at least, certainly not ones to aluminium/alloys of aluminium.
>>44183061
>rather than the jars that are actually used in low-tech canning.
I'd still call that relatively high-tech, at least for a fantasy setting, considering it wasn't invented until Napoleon's era.
>>44183415
I call it low tech because you can seal a canning jar with nothing but boiling water.
>>44182999
You don't get to be a pedant and apathetic too, you have to pick one glaring character flaw to bore the internet with.
>>44183435
Only because it uses a modern adhesive.
>>44183517
It doesn't use adhesive, it uses pressure. You put it in hot, put the top on, and when it cools it forms a vacuum that keeps the lid on. Rubber is used for the seal, but an analog could be made with older materials.
>>44183495
Haha no, I was just mentioning it. /tg/ is a great board because it's a bunch of nerds, and every nerd has a huge knowledge of something completely off-topic.
Honestly, I'd probably ask you guys for recipes before I asked /ck/
>>44183585
Isn't there some other type of adhesive that they could've used? I don't want to say tar, but there must have been some viscous, sappy material to seal it with
>>44183639
Wax would probably be the most likely.
>>44182420
>aluminum
>aluminum
>aluminumaluminumaliminumaluminum
It's fucking aluminium! Al-U-MIN-IUM!
Pronounce the second fucking I in it you retarded amerifat monkey!
It's almost as bad as you lot not pronouncing the first T in Antarctica.
>>44182965
A controversial character in Skellington's history, let me tell you. His legacy is still debated.
>>44184644
pshh, im not going to listen to a guy who puts a U in color or pronounces lieutenant with an f sound.
>>44184644
Superfluous "i"s don't deserve to be pronounced. Or included in the word.
Aluminum. Aluminum aluminum aluminum aluminum. Why don't you go count bongs on your big clock or add extra letters onto the end of your name or whatever it is you people do for fun over there. Oh, sorry. Whatevere iit ise yoiu peoiplee doe for fuin oivere theree. That enough extra letters for you?
>>44183615
Dammit, now I'm hungry. I'm supposed to be getting ready for bed. This is your fault.
>>44184644
Psychiatric help is free in your country, right?
I ask because you clearly need some fucking ritalin. Or whatever it is they feed to people like you to make them stop freaking the hell out. I'm not a doctor. But you sir, you need some fucking meds.
From Wikipedia.
"Two variants of the metal's name are in current use, aluminium (pronunciation: /ˌæljʊˈmJniəm/) and aluminum (/əˈluːmJnəm/)—besides the obsolete alumium. The International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry (IUPAC) adopted aluminium as the standard international name for the element in 1990 but, three years later, recognized aluminum as an acceptable variant. Hence their periodic table includes both.[71] IUPAC internal publications use either spelling in nearly the same number.[72]"
Now shut the hell up.
The biggest problem with aluminium would be it's total inability to be weld IMO. Other than that, since the energy absorbed by a volume of aluminium is sensibly close to most simple sleels, it would make a very good armor.
>>44185933
Maybe you can't weld it, but by god is aluminum extrusion a wonderful thing. You can make all sorts of things that would be impractical to do with steel because of it.
>>44183639
Honey maybe? or maybe tree/maple syrup?
>>44183061
Of course for caning to help with how much you have you have to produce enough to fill that extra space in the first place.
>>44185895
>>44184698
>>44184644
'Yall talkin' 'bout loom-num?
>>44182628
It was the largest chunk of the stuff in the world for a bit too
>>44186749
fail bait britbong. its pronounced '
lewm-nin. and god help me if you dont have a big dripping moth full of chew and waving a confederate flag.
>>44182999
>>44183495
>You don't get to be a pedant and apathetic too, you have to pick one glaring character flaw to bore the internet with.
>>44182420
It could be used to make thermite.
>>44182420
Alloyed with copper it makes a lightweight variant of bronze as strong as iron but much lighter.
>>44184644
As a Briton, I can assure my fine American friends that this man is either in a mental ward or is a troll who is not actually from the UK.
British people do not give a ha'penny jizz how foreigners talking our language in their own dialects pronounce or spell the names of metals. Nor do we care if you want to drop a part of your honour, or pronounce lieutenant like a bunch of fruity frogs.
However, the fact that you spell defence with an s, while still spelling words relating to it, like fence and fencing, with a c, is absolutely disgusting.
>>44183415
Only by chance; it's something that by all means could have been discovered around that era if the effort was devoted towards developing it, in the same way that many fantasy settings forgo the invention of gunpower around the era that it appears in the real world to preserve the romanticism.
>>44189017
Wait, we spell defence as "defense"?
I thought my spellchecker was just bugged.
>>44189045
Alas, it's true.
There was an effort in American culture to simplify the language, but it didn't really catch on all that far and ended up with oddities like this, and with the famous lack of a u in color but not, for instance, in famous.
>>44189088
>>44189045
Is it true Yanks spell 'through' as 'thru'?
Please say no.
Why on Earth do people keep comparing it to mithril of all things? The ONLY properties it shares with mithril are being light and being a metal.
In every other way its not similar at all and definitely would not make super strong armour that shines like bright silver all the time.
>>44189126
I've seen it spelled like that on some signs but I would imagine that's just for brevity's sake and that they don't do it generally.
>>44189126
>>44189165
Please no.
>>44189144
I always think of mithril and adamantine as blue. Adamantine's blue for me because of dwarf fortress, but the only place mithril is blue is runescape.
I never actually played runescape.
>>44189126
through is still spelled as 'through'.
But when you combine drive and 'through' it becomes drive thru
>>44189251
There are Drive-Thrus in Great Britain, but I have no car and I don't eat fast food, so I have never had cause to figure out how we spell the sign.
>tfw no car, no guns, no freedom
>>44189321
>have to wait until they're 21 to start drinking
Yeah, the Americans don't have it all that great.
>>44189126
Luckily, it's not accepted in formal English yet (an editor will shout at you if you try it), but if you're a fast food joint (because hey, McDonalds, am I right?) or something nobody bats an eye if you sell it that way, or if you're texting due to it being shorter than typing the full word.
It's probably a symptom of trying to adapt texting speech into regular English without realizing that texting speech is informal and by its very nature unprofessional.
>>44184644
And what, by chance, is your dialect? There is a 100% chance that whatever version of English you speak, pronounces a word in a non standard way.
If we start pointing out all the discrepancies in various English dialects, this conversation would get very degenerate very quickly.
>>44189407
Thru actually predates text speak as a concept. But yes, generally it is only ever used on signage and other areas where space is an issue.
>>44189017
Eh, I could care less
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw
As has been stated, the only real historical advantage of aluminium was it's immense scarcity, allowing Emperors and the like to show off the preposterous wealth without the need to drag around an entire room full of gold.
This also made it economically infeasible to use it for anything else.
If we do get a lot more of it back in the day it probably won't have much effect on most arms and armour. It's light, but soft, and unless we measure per weight the strength is also poor. Might be usable as shafts for things, but this probably won't produce any significant advantages over wood or iron. In cases where you want to stress light weight it could work for armour, but otherwise it probably won't do all too well there either. Maybe in places where we can afford a good deal of thickness one could experiment with a thin steel outer layer with an aluminium backing. And the softness obviously rules out any edge or point.
Maybe a good material for gun carriages and such. Being extremely corrosion resistant as long as we keep salt away it would probably find a number of architectural and decorative uses. Roof plates, statues, drainpipes, etc.
>>44182722
The "savoyard" helmet, sometimes called detah's head helmet, is a European 17th century thing by and large. That specific one though is probably a lot younger than that, it looks suspiciously similar to this one, which is a more modern example. I don't think they took the death's head bit quite so literally back in the day.
http://www.hermann-historica-archiv.de/auktion/hhm59.pl?f=NR_LOT&c=4298&t=temartic_A_D&db=kat59_a.txt
"im Stil um 1620" means "in the style of 1620", and is auctioneer speak for "not actually from 1620".
>>44188987
>as strong as iron
Pure iron has a yield strength of 50MPa.
A hardened high carbon steel might sit around 800MPa. I don't know how high steel can go, but 1500MPa is definitively possible, see page 10 http://cml.postech.ac.kr/z/3750-012.pdf
Al-bronze density appears similar to steel.
>>44189481
This post has made me wonder how I, as a resident of the Best Midlands, could transliterate the way I pronounce things for an American.
Alurminyurm would suffice for another Englishman, but Americans pronounce an A more like an E, and put an emphasis on the R so strong that it may warrant a restraining order.
>>44189126
On some signs and old comic books as an abbreviation.
>>44189645
There is actually an alphabet invented entirely for transliterating words. It is called the IPA and it can range from pretty casual to use to needlessly complex. Mostly it is good for weird vowel fuckery like what you described, because consonants are pretty universal.
>>44189481
not like english pronunciation makes any sense to begin with
>>44189757
Everything is actually pretty straightforward if you know the etymology. But, yeah, unless you want to spend a shit ton of time learning the history of the English language, everything is going to look really fucked.
>>44189731
>>44189832
Anon, you're much too friendly and helpful to be a 4chan user, and unlike other fa/tg/uys, you're not trying to turn this into an argument/dickswinging contest.
So what's your thing?
Can you call me a fag or something because I'm not used to this kind of posting.
>>44189899
>what's your thing?
Thanks for giving me an excuse to Limmypost, anon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jpVyGv-SAg
>>44189899
I guess I just derive satisfaction from being moderately helpful, rather than trying to make other people feel stupid on the internet.
>>44183404
Pappies 9 months older than it exactly.
Would there be a way to layer the titanium armor to prevent deformation? A thin steel plate sandwiched by titanium plates or some such? Still less overall weight but stiffer plates.
>>44182949
Yes, assuming you accept objective historical fact.
>>44189731
[aLʊminjʊm is gr̥ʌJt]
Pretty swell but what layperson can read it without spending as much time decoding it?
>>44190080
I can read it, but that is because I am a huge language nerd. Normies would just have to look up the IPA to decode it. but pretty much anyone who actually gives a shit about how to read it, probably already knows how.
>>44183615
>>44185812take a nice primerib roast rub it in light salt and let sit for at least an hour but hopefully a day in the fridge. chop up equal parts parsley, rosemary, and tarragon and half a part thyme mix in with 2tb salt 1 1/2tb pepper into grapeseed oil. Slather that bitch down until its entirely covered in green. Plop it in the oven at 325F for 12.5-15 mins per lb (12.5 for perfect medium rare juicy goodins) or until internal temp of 120F. Let rest 10 mins. Be forever disappointed when someone else makes subpar meat products.
>>44190080
It's good for learning new languages, especially ones like english where the pronounciation is all over the place.
>>44188950
I'm entirely with this guy. Mages can even streamline the process.
>>44190051
Might help, but ability of the steel to stop the temporary deformation (ie its resistance to temporary deformation) is unfortunately quite thickness-dependent, so we'll probably need a significant thickness for it to help much.
>>44189645
simple transliteration wouldn't help much
>>44182999
Hey there friend. You're close enough. I just thought I'd point out that while aluminum was indeed the original name, it wasn't "the original Latin". That would have been "alumen", which was then changed to the old French "alum".
>>44190281
The fact that I understand this absolutely perfectly brought a tear of joy to my eye.
Never change, my glorious motherland, never change.
>>44184644
Your just jelly that our English is better preserved early modern English aka shakespearian English and therefore more technically correct then whatever pigdin you speak on the other side of the pond.
>>44186749
Y'all*
Not bad though, you made me laugh.
>>44189380
I can assure you that the vast majority of Americans don't wait until they're 21 to start drinking.
>>44190052
It's a good thing no one actually accepts that.
>>44190281
Texan here, what the fuck is that sign trying to communicate?
>>44190473
The vast majority of Britbongs don't wait till they're 18.
Strongbow in the park with the boys
>>44190499
I think it says "stay out".
>>44189126
U r gr8.
These are not real words. Nor do they have any actual use in proper spelling. 'Words' such as these and "thru" are only used to save either time, space, or both. As for "defense"... Yeah, we dropped the ball on that one. I don't think we should try to change it back though. Trying to change spelling to a formalized standard is how we got in this mess in the first place. Might as well keep it as a warning against "double minus bad" actions in the future.
Remember, you are great.
>>44190499
It would appear to be a form of conveyance to make known a threat while establishing dominant rights to a specific area as well as an overall challenge to those willing.
>>44190473
Yeah, but at the same time I doubt that the average age to start regularly drinking is nearly so low as it is over here.
>>44189017
You just add random U's to shit because you desperately want to be French. Your inbred nobles decided one day in the Victorian period that it made them sound posh.
>>44190536
>>44190580
This is a clear reminder to me that Scots is a separate and distinct language from English.
>>44190499
Midlander here.
It says that if you go down that route while making your way home, you will spill your tea (trip and fall, presumably).
>>44189126
When neon signs were invented, they were priced by the letter, so "Drive Thru" saved money, same thing as "All-Nite". We still spell it through.
>>44190601
They're almost old-english.
>>44190601
It's not in scots, you saft wassock. It's in Dudley, in the middle of England.
>>44190594
>You just add random U's
Right, remind me where you Yankipoos got your language from?
Remind me how many written instances of English with 'random U's' there are that predate the USA even existing.
Fucking Yanks, man.
>>44190601
>with the aid of a Black Country Dictionary
>>44190594
>want to be french
You're the ones that talk like the bloody french, with your leu'tenants.
>>44190601
That's an English sign from the west midlands.
>>44186766
>Damn! Where are we going to get enough processed aluminum to save the world?!
>There's one place we can get it from...
>>44190629
Same gibberish.
>>44183061
I remember reading that the castles the Crusaders built were large, but meant to be held by a very small number of people if necessary. So a large amount of long-lasting food could be advantageous, especially since you could can more kinds of food than you can salt - jellies, fruits, vegetables, as well as meats and beans and soups and such.
>>44190695
Tek the bleed'n piss ow yow loik, yow yampy git.
>>44190607
Pardon me, but what does "wum" mean?
>>44190802
'Wum' means 'home', but I would have rendered it as 'uom'.
>>44190771
You're trying to hard and became legible.
>>44190834
I'm from Birmingham, not Dudley, so that's probably why.
>>44190664
Hey guys, we all used to want to be French. I mean how funny is it that English is now referred to as the Franca Lingua, but we still use the phrase "Franca Lingua"?
>>44189126
>Is it true Yanks spell 'through' as 'thru'?
No. Thru is basically the same thing as lite or nite; an informal shortening to save you time. I will, however, point out that it's significantly more efficient, conveying the same idea with only half the letters (well, 4/7 the letters), and it's more phonetical than through. Really, it's because folks write/type thr and ask themselves whether they'd rather add one more letter or four.
Well this thread went off the rails.
>>44190862
This thread has been officially annexed by the county of the West Midlands.
>>44190857
You mean "lingua franca"?
>>44190827
Thank you very much, and I agree 'uom' is a bit more in line with what I have heard.
>>44190908
Yes... yes I did. I kind of with there were a font to denote blushing to show how embarrassed I am.
>>44190907
Fuck off farmers
>>44190946
>Farmers
It's a metropolitan county you pleb, the second biggest built-up area in the UK.
>>44190946
>>44190985
More like factory workers. Man, you guys are a bit too fast and loose with lead over there.
>>44190857
But lingua franca is italian.....y'know, That place with the bigger than other churches church? They wanted to spread that influence so they made a "frankish language" containing elements of "lesser" languages (french, greek, arabic, spanish, etc.) so spreading that influence would be much easier.
>>44190931
No problem, it's finals week.
>>44190907
Thats cute.
>>44191020
>Questioning the beating iron heart of Brittania
>Questioning BSA, makers of arguably the finest rifles the world has ever seen
>Questioning the birthplace of heavy metal
>Questioning any part of Great Britain, the nation that invented and/or conquered more than anyone else, ever, and also the only sexually attractive landmass on earth
Bulls are better than eagles, mate. Can't you do simple maths?
>>44190931
>>44190857
Actually, lingua franca means Frankish language, but doesn't refer to French. It is so named because to those further east, all westerners were Franks (kind of like how Brits and Aussies think all Americans are "Yanks", while Americans reserve Yankee for northerners on the rare occasions they use it). Lingua franca was a trade language mixing in bits of a lot of different languages, but it was mostly of Italian basis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Lingua_Franca
>>44191116
>demanding respect for past glories like a worn out old man
>not forging the new world path and dragging obsolete countries kicking and screaming into the future
Stay pleb, old man.
>>44191152
After all that hard work making the modern world, why the hell are we not entitled to put our feet up for a few centuries to let the colonists do all the work?
>>44190682
It's tiny, though. As in, the size you'd expect a gold capstone to be. But that does support the idea of aluminium as a prestige metal.
>>44191170
Because your countries overall health has slipped to third world standards and your legals system is the most archaic constricting example to date and you've yet to make an serious contribution to anything in over 100 years. The fatter you get the harder its going to be to get back into shape.
>>44191284
>third world standards
I don't know what you've been reading, but I have no idea what you're talking about. Compared to most of europe, Britain has an exceptionally strong economy, and a pretty superb quality of life.
>your legals system is the most archaic constricting example to date
That's just plain ridiculous. I agree that it's vastly worse than I'd like it to be, but it's not even a fraction as bad as it could be and is a reality for a disturbingly large number of countries.
>you've yet to make an serious contribution to anything in over 100 years
You're bloody joking, right?... Right?
All in all, I'd say we were doing better than you in every department you mentioned.
>>44191468
We're world leaders in medical and technological development, have the strongest economy(seriously we die the world dies in this category), and our legsl system allows freedoms that are undeniable even by the government.
>>44190660
>The Golan Heights
Whatever /pol/ says, the Jews don't control the mapmakers, because that land is Israeli.
>>44191284
Do you get your kicks by telling outrageous lies on the internet?
>>44191681
Ah shit, right, mistyped there when I said all the categories. You're above us in freedom.
>world leaders in medical and technological development
You're just not. Seriously, all the american science communicators are desparately trying to get you guys to even care about science and technology. Also, not one of the categories previously mentioned.
>have the strongest economy
The biggest. Not the strongest.
>seriously we die the world dies in this category
Again, this is due to size, not stability.
>muh freedoms
Yeah, you got me there.
>>44191817
>Again, this is due to size, not stability.
Oh hey, a gold bug.
>>44191681
>>44191284
>this is what yankidoodles actually believe
>>44191938
For the record, I'm a Eurofag, and I think he's partially right.
>>44191993
Clarify.
>>44191228
I don't know, I just find it funny how in stories and movies sometimes the hero will need some rare metal to reforge an ancient blade or to find the treasure, and there's always only one good load of it anywhere. But in this case, the metal is something I can get cans of for cheap.
>>44191993
As an Amerifag, the freedoms bit is less due to our court system (really, EVERY part of our bureaucracy is fucked on every level, but let's set that aside) and more due to the fact that people simply don't get elected if they aren't all for muh freedom, and getting elected is what makes the world go 'round.
Seriously, the entire reason the US political system works AT ALL is because the two-party system and subsequent radicalism have created an environment where certain aspects of culture have to be held sacred in order to have the tiniest chance at ever having any political power.
Anyway, our general public gives zero shits about science and tech, but our healthcare system is so fucked that it has the side effect of making developing drugs for the US market incredibly lucrative, which stimulates medicinal research. We're also leaders in agricultural research, because holy shit do we have a fuckton of farmland in the bumfuck nowhere flyover states.
Oh, and recent advances in oil drilling techniques have turned us from an oil importer into an oil exporter.
So we're doing our fair share of medical/tech advancement.
>>44191817
>>44192253
Well we did manage to carve out a god damn third of a continent for ourselves and jumped on the capitalist free market wagon so yeah, makes sense that we have the biggest economy.
Our political system is currently more fucked than normal as evidenced by the sorts of people currently leading in the polls, namely one disgusting racist who wants to have sex with his daughter.
It really doesn't help that we have one of the most nationalistic attitudes in the world where if you aren't a PATRIOT then you are wrong. Doesn't lead to any sort of healthy conversation among the various parties because now we believe that whichever is the other side is out to destroy everything America stands for.
Personally I would support the Balkanization of America if I thought that A) there would be any way to do it peacefully and B) those people that live in the South and True West will immediately suffer a loss of rights and freedoms afforded to them by the Federal government. Stuff that they really should have.
>people can't get along because of the way a word is spelled
Can we just call it aluminumium or something?
>>44193383
You. You are best Yank.
Give this man a medal and a cupper.
>>44182847
Do you say Platinium too?
>>44193826
Sounds too much like Plutonium.
>>44193383
As if the rest of the US would not lose just as many rights.
Your political system is split between two parties that despise individual rights and freedoms, they just don't overlap fully on which ones they want to get rid of.
>>44194154
Well true, I guess the real difference is just that I would be alright with the stuff I would lose but not alright with the stuff they would lose. I personally rate having access to healthcare for everyone as more important than having everyone having access to guns. And therein lies a small piece of the whole issue in the political system.
>>44193383
>Our political system is currently more fucked than normal as evidenced by the sorts of people currently leading in the polls, namely one disgusting racist who wants to have sex with his daughter.
Or just a Nativist who makes really bad jokes about fucking his daughter.
>all these people fighting about aluminium
>nobody has mentioned sulphur
The Yanks got sulfur, the Brits got aluminium.
>>44194298
Not a single person in this country, who isn't a Native American, has any ground to call themselves a Nativist. But yeah I wouldn't put it past him to be entirely clueless to the fact that he makes terrible jokes.
>>44194395
Not really, they crossed the damn land bridge to. Every scrap of land on this planet has been fought for at some point. Natives are just the descendants of the winners and those that the winners chose to welcome.
>>44194319
Everyone has 'sulfur' now, bloody IUPAC.
>>44194395
Tell that to the tribes who got genocided over land disputes by the tribes that were present at the time the Euros showed up.
>>44194465
Interestingly enough the Land Bridge theory has begun to lose support as the way that the majority of the continent was settled based off of genetic research. There is evidence that there were a lot of descendants of Polynesian sailors instead.
And if you're going to be throwing out that qualifier the only people who can be called Natives are Africans from a very specific point of Africa. The difference being that we recognize in our own history that we immigrated here, that's what the whole Pilgrim and Spanish explorer thing is about. Not to mention the massive influx of immigrants that we simultaneously hold up as one of our greatest characteristics and continue to hate whomever is part of the most recent batch.
>>44194633
The original Natives lost after being invaded and settled by outsiders.
I have no plans to go their way.
Nor would I blame a native amerindian with a time machine for going back to sink the Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria.
>>44194319
Wait, what? There's people who spell sulphur with an f?
>>44194714
That is the official IUPAC spelling, adopted from the Americans.
>>44194723
Words cannot express the sense of despair that has just enshrouded my soul.
>>44194633
> The difference being that we recognize in our own history that we immigrated here, that's what the whole Pilgrim and Spanish explorer thing is about.
Not really. The genocide of the natives is never brought up as an argument against migration, for one thing.
>>44194773
I just brought it up here >>44194696
Though you're right, it doesn't get enough attention.
>>44194696
What group do you believe has the power to invade and settle our lands now?
>>44194773
Well it wouldn't be, we hold up those early explorers and immigrants as heroes in our history classes. Though recently the Spanish have been getting a lot of flak for their actions in the New World.
>>44194854
Muslims.
>>44194773
>genocide
Yes, people without a modern knowledge of epidemiology should be judged because their diseases killed most of the Native Americans.
>>44194854
>What group do you believe has the power to invade and settle our lands now?
Anyone we're idiotic enough to allow inside from the wrong culture from part of the world
>>44190726
Not to mention, salt was a valuable commodity back in the day, so canning could allow for cheaper preservation than salting.
>>44184644
>Pronounce the second fucking I in it you retarded amerifat monkey!
I bet you spell maneuver as manoeuver, with a silent O. I bet you horribly mispronounce lieutenant and lefttenant.
And you want to lecture people who speak the language correctly? Leave you retarded britbong and go to a dentist for once in your life.
>>44195161
>Americans
>speaking any language correctly
>>44195161
It's actually manoeuvre, but who gives a fuck.
>>44195161
>mispronounce lieutenant
Unless you're a frogfag or a sober belgian, you're the one mispronouncing it.
>>44194936
That is not an organized group of people with the infrastructure necessary to invade a country. If you're talking about the people who are moving to America who also happen to be Muslim then they are moving here not invading.
>>44194938
Well continuing to kill and push their people off of the land they lived on after they had been devastated by disease is what counts as the genocide. Plus we had enough knowledge to give them blankets that happened to be infected with smallpox.
>>44194992
Which ones are the wrong ones?
>>44195363
The point is 90% of them were dead through no conscious act of the Europeans before they even arrived in any real numbers.
>>44195363
>Which ones are the wrong ones?
Places with excesses of Wahhabi/salafist pluralities. Probably Khomenite pluralities too.
China's robber Barons looking to make some bugout babies for when their people inevitably rise up and they need a way into the USA.
Unrestricted flows of third-world low-skill labor.
>>44190660
He's right, though. Iran borders two gulfs, and no sea.
>>44195418
And that is an excellent point. I totally agree with it, the fact that we continued to kill them counts as genocide.
>>44195419
So we shouldn't let certain religious communities in the country due to concerns about their laws that they follow. Which would possibly be a valid concern if we didn't already have our own rule of law set up which they would still need to abide by. If they are following our laws then we cannot discriminate against their religious belief. If they aren't following our laws then they are criminals and liable for persecution by our criminal justice system.
Not entirely certain what threat you are foreseeing from the Chinese somehow seeding our country with people that would support them in a possible invasion. That concern seems oddly like the concern that brought about Japanese internment camps in World War 2 when in reality the vast majority of those Japanese-Americans thought of themselves as Americans first and foremost.
Third world low skill labor is what keeps a lot of our country running at the moment and I would hardly call it unrestricted. We've got two gigantic oceans inbetween us and the vast majority of third world countries and if you're referring to Mexicans and other South Americans then you are also referring to people who are travelling here in order to build a better life for their families which is exactly the sort of value that our country was founded on. That is the beauty of being an American.
I will grant you that the immigration policy that we have here needs work, everyone agrees on that but to cut off the opportunity based on perceived threats is to insult everything our country was founded to provide to the world.
Where are people getting the idea that you can't weld aluminum ? Tig welding works fine.
>>44195723
People who come to enrich themselves at the expense of those already here.
With the aid of politicians betraying those who are already here (The constituents they are SUPPOSED to represent) for free votes and/ore money from companies who profit off cheap labor.
>>44196171
Since when were we so bad off that we suddenly didn't have enough to spare anymore?
>>44189126
It's an acceptable abbreviation, nothing more.
>>44196531
Apparently he doesn't understand distribution, surplus, and exportation. He might have been edged out in menial labor or something by more skilled work willinf to work for less due to circumstances so now he has a vendetta rather than realizing that happens in any industry thats not insanely specialized and hard to get into b
>>44193383
Canada has it worse than you in the "muh patriotism" thing, believe it or not.
>>44196531
Since we overextended our economy some 50 years ago and rammed ourselves into a debt larger then the amount of currency that actually exists in the world, as well as degraded our local manufacturing industries so things like Detroit, the rust belts, and the ghettos happened.
>>44199270
I always wondered about that. They seem so benign but canada day rolls around i find out who the wolves in sheeps clothing are where i live.
>>44199398
You do realize the debt doesn't technically exist, right? No one would ever dare try and collect on it because we'd just say no and war them. If we lost that war and actually killed our country paying out the world economy collapses so its technically suicide. We even have countries we essentially own that we just borrow against on a constant basis in exchange for keeping them and their economy alive (china). Most ghetto's are just places no one wants to fund anymore or are full of people who's jobs we've exported for profit and not actual recession of any kind.
>>44183061
>>44182949
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Appert
Canning was invented more or less because Napoleon needed to be able to feed an army too large to forage. Go back in time and It would have made sieges almost impossible, because a defending army could lay in food for years at a time that wouldn't kill them from scurvy, though it would have been expensive as hell to produce a sufficient quantity of glass jars.
>>44199270
Really? Damn, I'm sorry. I only started really noticing it when I realized that car dealerships appear to be having a contest on who can fly the biggest flag. Where do you see it in Canada?
>>44199398
First off I would like to point out that ghettos have been around for essentially the entirety of human history in one form or another.
50 years ago was one of the most prosperous time period in our history unless you're referring to the 73-75 Recession. If you are then you will recognize that these things are cyclical and happen in any capitalistic economy due to a number of outside factors that are rarely, if ever, tied to our immigration policies. Even if we aren't doing so hot right now, which we're actually doing a lot better than in our recent past, that is no reason to compromise on what is the soul of America. A place of opportunity for anyone who needs it without regard to the persons race, religion, creed, gender or sexual orientation. We aren't even close to living up to that ideal but we keep striving for it and that's the important thing.
>>44183404
It's interesting that armor requires a certain amount of hardness (to absorb the blow) and flexibility (to not shatter). You can make steel that does this, but a lot of other metals don't quite work being too far to one extreme or the other.
Though I'm sure with modern materials and a lot of money and time to test you could probably make some kind of alloy or lamination of different materials to come up with something better.
>>44201217
Ceramics come heavily to mind. You can make some stronger than steel and able to flex a bit more without snapping. a good example are those ceramic knives. So hard they require diamonds to sharpen but flexible enough for that level of hardness not to chip the actual cutting edge when used. Weighs almost the same though depending on the mixture.
Aluminum can be tempered to very good hardness while retaining a lot of springiness. However, doing so at medieval levels of technology is not possible.
However, in a setting with magic, all bets are off. You need about 1.5x the thickness of steel to get an equivalent protective value, though as aluminum is sg3-ish while steel is sg7.7-ish, it still weighs less than 2/3rds the equivalent steel plate, just slightly bulkier.
In my old campaign, elves had the traditional vulnerability to iron (and to lesser extent steel) so they used magically tempered aluminum for armor and phosphorous-bronze for weapons.
>>44201667
Aluminum alloy bronze is the strongest standard bronze. If they have the aluminum and can temper the final product using magic you'd be better off since the phosphor bronze tends to be really springy and a little too bendy for proper weapon use and handling. Imagine if everytime you hit something you're arm and weapon shook a bit too long. You'd get that numb hand and hurt wrist real quick and be wasting striking power on the flex.
>>44203343
Also you get a gold weapon that doesn't rust or tarnish even after being exposed to sea water and won't get that nasty funk after getting covered in gore because its anti-microbial.
>>44190660
The Mediterranean Sea is WAY more strategically and economically important than the Indian Ocean.
>>44203486
Soooo...we build a wall around it?
>>44190051
haha maybe he was conceived on the day it was released?your dad's a celebration baby
>>44190660
and i thought it was bad when Australia had a treasurer who did not know the tax free threshold
>>44190660
I feel like even if you did want to fight your way to the mediterranean sea from iran you would be better off going through turkey.
>>44189207
I've always imagined Mithril as Silver and Adamantine as Bronze. Orichalcum is the blue one.
>>44207087
I dunno man. Syrians might be tough shit but have you ever hunted turkey's? Its like a 50/50 if it will just up and start hunting you instead and somehow gains immunity to high velocity lead in the process. Can't even imagine how terrible it would be slogging through a damned country named after them.
>>44207119
Weird. Always figured mithril was silver with a blue sheen, adamantine a dull brown with red flecks(like adamantine spar a variation on corundum), and orichalcum as a golden brown(roman coins) or a deep jade green(not sure where i got this one).
>>44207171
What other fantastical metals are we forgetting? Damascus Steel springs to mind, but that's just a specific type of Iron forged a weird way.
>>44207198
Aurum could be one depending on how you look at it. How i was introduced was some book ages ago saying its origin was the word was essentially "gold" but rather expressed "perfection" as if a gold standard so its the "perfect" metal. I don't even remember the book either.
I recall jules verne had xirdalium or something that was a thousand times more radioactive that uranium but had to be artificially created.
>>44207139
heh
>>44182420
for the longest time I would get mad at people who, and there were a few of them, that would argue that mithril was just aluminium, as aluminum weapons would be pretty useless, and aluminum would have to be mad-thick to do anything as a plate...
...then my brother pointed out to me that it was aluminum mail. Super-tiny little interlocking rings, who's only outstanding feature was how light they were...
It wouldn't be very practical over-all, but aluminum mail could work; if someone put the time into it to make the rings REALLY tiny.
I can't think of many other uses as far as arms/armor go; you could make nice accessories/committees out of it though.
>>44207265
Well you can temper aluminum to near steel hardness with more flexibility and alloying with copper makes it almost as strong as basic carbon steel while being flexible, strong, and rust resistant. Bonus its a nice gold color. Magic could even do the tempering. Now you got crazy light gold arms and armor that everybody would be jealous of.
Irrelevant to the thread but somewhat on a similar tangent to this >>44200232 ; what sort of provocation would be required for the major countries holding debt over the USA to just say Fuck It and demand repayment, with the implication that they're betting on America denying them and starting a Cold War / WW3. Assuming a setting where utter realism isn't necessary, would it be simply enough to say that a new Chairman Mao with a vision of oriental endsieg was put into power and decided to start shit after a decade of building military power?
I recall reading a long term ago that mithril the way it was originally described could be expressed as an alloy of yttrium and silver. I forget the specifics though.
>>44188950
I love this meme.
>>44207119
>>44207171
>orichalcum
>blue
Seriously? The stuff is red. Never read your Plato?
>>44207565
Here it is http://greenbooks.theonering.net/guest/files/103003_02.html
An intermetaliic, both strong and ductile. Also shiny.
>>44207501
Russia would have to get real uppity. Moreso than usual. It would have to make its claim and let its allies do the same. They'd have to be crazy enough to assume it would just be us as well and not every country that who's economy would die with us (again literally every country) who would come knocking. I'd assume a new wave of serious communism might do the trick to make them believe that if they all work together and pitch in they could not only survive the onslaught but also the fact they have no global economy to help out. It would probably be n.korea mostly helping but they do have middle eastern allies who MIGHT help them and POSSIBLY china though its actually more likely they join us since we not only own them economically and with us gone they'd go broke fast but they'd also starve fast as well. This of course would almost end in nuclear death for everyone. We're big boy countries now and we use big boy toys no more sending human waves to die so everyone gets a nice "quick" death.
>>44207768
I never said blue. I said dull brown with red flecks throughout. Like actual orichalcum ore IRL looks like. I even posted a picture to illustrate that.plato didn't know shit about corundum or rubies.
>>44207265
>if someone put the time into it to make the rings REALLY tiny.
And then you have to rivet, weld or solder all those tiny little rings shut. How well you do that will have a big impact on the strength of the finished mail.
Or half of them, if the other half are punched out solid from the start.
>>44207292
Aluminium as far as I can tell has no allotropes, and as such I don't see much hope for hardening it. (Tempering is what you do after hardening, as-quenched steel is extremely brittle, tempering reduces hardness a bit but greatly improves toughness.)
Aluminium alloys seem able to get up to unhardened medium carbon steel levels of hardness, which is entirely sufficient for most arms and armour. Whether the toughness and stiffness (to avoid the titanium problem) of those specific alloys is up to the task is another question, I'm just going off of http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=ab8aeb2d293041c4a844e397b5cfbd4e&ckck=1
Sadly I can't find any overview page for aluminium bronzes, but given that the specific alloys of that I see there are mostly copper with a touch of aluminium, I suspect that our aluminium with a touch of copper is sorted under aluminium alloys. Those al-bronzes also tend to be about as heavy as steel, as you'd expect of somethign that's mostly copper.
Low weight is often good, but not always. A very light sword won't be very fun in the bind, blunt weapons obviously balance impact against wieldability as it is already, and a light helmet provides less protection against concussion.
>>44207565
Given how Frodo didn't have at least a few ribs broken after a spear-thrust had him "hurled against the wall and pinned" I suspect we need to alloy in a bit more exotic stuff there. You know, mountain roots, cat stomping, fish breath, newts that didn't get better, that kind of thing. Even worse if we go by the movie version and have the spear wielded by a troll.
>>44207929
Yeah it was about the basic physical properties, not the whole narrative picture and the magic it implies.
Anyways following that link, what are your thoughts on yttrium-silver?
>>44207958
Dunno bout silver but it apparently strengthens alloys made of either aluminum or magnesium and generally enhances workability of chromium, titanium, zirconium, and molybdenum. I wouldn't place it for use of weapons and armor since its apparently toxic and can cause lung disease unless firmly in other metal. Actually smithing with it would surely kill the smith without modern safety equipment.
>>44208169
I think being in the intermetaliic means it has a chemical bond with the silver so maybe it's safe in that form. Still the matter of getting it there though.
>>44208231
Getting it there then again another exposure with the fumes during actual forging the rings. Smiths dead but at least the apprentice survived! But dayum this armor looks crazy super fly!
>>44207958
>>44208169
>>44208231
>>44208298
Makes a good relic armour in lost ruins if nothing else.
Its damn good but anybody who tries to melt it down or reforge it dies.
>>44200345
Probably one of the easiest ways for a player with modern knowledge to revolutionize the world.
>>44207958
>what are your thoughts on yttrium-silver?
I don't really have any ideas about its chemcial and mechancial properties. It sounds bloody expensive though, yttrium being a good deal more expensive than silver if google is telling me the truth. Although an order of magnitude short of gold, so I don't see a shirt mathcing the entire Shire with all its excellent farmland for value.
>>44208169
Hm, is it much worse than stuff like brass and so? Though that's for "safe(ish)" by modern standards. In a medieval setting, let's not forget about fire gilding. You mix gold and mercury to a paste, apply it, and then heat it so the mercury evaporates, and you're left with a beutifully gilded item.
Then enjoy your "tremors (initially affecting the hands and sometimes spreading to other parts of the body), emotional lability (characterized by irritability, excessive shyness, confidence loss, and nervousness), insomnia, memory loss, neuromuscular changes (weakness, muscle atrophy, muscle twitching), headaches, polyneuropathy (paresthesia, stocking-glove sensory loss, hyperactive tendon reflexes, slowed sensory and motor nerve conduction velocities), and performance deficits in tests of cognitive function".
>>44208577
>be proffesional tomb raider
>people frown on this
>says the crap i bring in is cursed
>juggle the shit all day to prove a point
>they just keep pointing at the retard blacksmith's grave
>just make a killing selling "cursed" armor and the "safety spell" to eccentric nobles who want their kids to look cool in plate but don't want them dying from exertion
>>44208839
I guess it just leads to lung diseases super easily by weakening the walls and causing minor bleeding and open ulcers.
No idea why mercury is such a fucking crapshoot either. Dad played with a literal bucket of the stuff in science class as a kid and he's dandy 50 years later but one of his buds has like massive arthritis in the hands and super early (age 30) onset of alzheimers.
What made it worse for smithes back then was the actual closed quarters. Gotta be dark to properly determine temp through the color of the glowing metal. No ventilation and breathing in all that smoke and metal vapors day after day.
>>44208907
>Dad played with a literal bucket of the stuff in science class as a kid and he's dandy 50 years later
Odds are that it was cool enough that you didn't get very significant amounts of mercury vapour in the air. As opposed to intentionally boiling it away. His friend may have gotten screwed over by something else. Though...
>but one of his buds has like massive arthritis in the hands and super early (age 30)
they weren't class mates, were they?
>>44209000
They were classmates. Same age and everything. The science teacher just had a literal bucket of it sitting out for kids to play with and see how it interacted with water or when you drop it on a hard surface etc. a general "fun lesson to get kids into science" type deal. They also played with hunks of uranium though thats nowhere near dangerous unless concentrated but today that shit won't fly. Hell break a mercury thermometer and you gotta evacuate everything out to 300 meters from school grounds and wait for hazmat.
>>44209077
Probably genetics or something but still dad stuck his whole arm in the stuff on a dare.
>>44182420
>aluminum is analogous to mithril
No.
Aluminum by itself would be absolute shit-tier weaponry and armor....ESPECIALLY weaponry. It's an incredibly soft metal and there's a good reason when Bronze became obsolete when Iron became widespread, and why plain iron became largely obsolete when Steel was invented.
Aluminum might make a decent backing for a lightweight leather armor, but that's about it.
Aluminum would serve as a good substitute for other metals when light weight and corrosion resistance are the most critical concerns to solving a problem, just like today.
>>44194633
Yeah, I've heard that as well. IIRC, Poly sailors settled around Vancouver, migrating south, and much later the Siberians came and become the Inuit.
And wouldn't it make more sense for Siberians to become Inuits than for Polynesian sailors to become land-locked tundra nomads?
>>44194773
>>44194814
Are you guys fucking joking? It gets brought up about 90% of the time someone debates immigration. Are you not from the U.S.?
God dammit, /tg/
I just wanted to know if aluminum had many fantasy applications, assuming the bauxite process was discovered a few centuries earlier.
>>44210042
But you've already got a bunch of answers.
If canning is also invented, then yes. Otherwise, not really. Super cheap, lightweight armor will be possible, but it will sacrifice protection even if you use the strongest possible aluminum alloys to make it.
>>44210076
Most commercial canned foods use steal cans.
>>44210197
But the bauxite process would make aluminum cans much easier to use (Or rather, much easier to make), especially in massive quantities.
>>44210076
Kek
I was just making fun of the responders for going off topic in the most /tg/ way.
>>44210214
I think you'd have to take into account the level of industrialization in the setting to claim that.
>>44209000
Is that a radium knife?
Also, odd question: assuming you're a drow or similar and don't care how many forge-slaves die horribly, would refined uranium or plutonium make a good material for a sword? How about a warhammer?
>>44210346
I'd imagine it'd be way too heavy to be suitable as a weapon.
