Old Thread >>>>>43858922

"But why GURPS?"

1) The splatbooks/worldbooks are universally written by people who know what they're talking about. The Fantasy book is written by archaeologists and historians, the Space book is written by astrophysicists, the Guns book is written by gun experts, etc. The factual mistakes are few and far between, and almost always acknowledged later. They give great advice on how to make believable worlds, how FTL affects society, how magic changes warfare, how real supernatural elements change secret societies... or how to ignore all realism and make whatever setting you want in a way that players can't take advantage of. They're great reads, even if you don't use the system.

2) GURPS has rules to handle anything. You don't need to use them all (why bother with rules for asphyxiating in a vacuum in a game about biker gangs?) but they're there. So if a game doesn't go where you expect, and your party of adventurers buy a wagon and start managing a merchant caravan company, there are books to support that style of play in a systemic way, integrated with the core rules in a way that makes sense. This also makes it great for crazy blends of game. Dungeonpunk with automatic firearms? Yes.

3) GURPS by default uses "heroic realism". This is when the odds on the heroes' sides but reality doesn't bend for them. Two bullets will knock a human unconscious (but not immediately kill him - this is fairly realistic) but hitting a moving target more than 100m away in a firefight is hard as hell. It suits games that go for a realistic or gritty feel and gives a break from the slightly cartoony damage sponges in games like D&D but can be customised with optional rules to change the feel from "Fuck You, There Are No Heroes and the World is Shit" right up to "The Heroes are Good and Always Triumph Over Evil". Incidentally, what makes it heroic realism also makes it the best game on the market to play a game about Operators Operating Operationally.

Suppose I take DF templates and cut some attributes, like it was done in the 'DF on the Cheap, down to 100 points total. Assuming players won't necessarily raise the attributes back to their 250p counterpart (when they get enough points), will there be any issues (balance-wise or similar)? So there will be a 250p barbarian, but instead of 17ST he will have 15ST+some advantages/perks/higher skills.

I just want a dungeon crawl lower in points, and I don't want to use Henchmen. And I will be using community Bestiary, not DF Monsters.

>>43922281
I don't think that's the best route, at least not universally. While high attributes and the universal competency they produce are certainly a target for reduction, don't ignore stupidly high skill levels and expensive advantages.

Maybe use the multi classing lens with a base template? ST and IQ 10, DX and HT 11, the 25-point lens, then 20 more points designated for attributes of the player's choosing and the remaining 25 points towards whatever they feel their PC still needs.

>>43922471
Well, that's what I am going for: so that attributes stay in a more believable range, and so do skill levels.

As for the lens suggestions, I have discovered that as a beginner GM I have a. lot. to prepare (choose traits available, spells, items to buy and to loot, monsters and how they react, rules and optional things allowed, etc.), that I absolutely don't want to spend even more time with templates. DF seems good enough exactly because it is.. hmm.. 'out-of-the-box' , although not the kind I'm used to with D&D/PF.

Oh, and one thing I loved about using DF templates is DF3 and DF11 power-ups, neatly distributed between classes - very easy and quick for both me and my players. Because if I have to sit through the alphabetical list in Basic to choose traits for a paladin, I swear to God.

Hey guys, I've decided to try and get into GURPS for the purpose of running a sci-fi/cyberpunk campaign, and I need your advice on which splatbooks to consider. I'm aiming for something more modern (think Deus Ex:HR tech level-wise), semi-realistic in tone (relatively lethal combat, combined with stuff like cyber ninjas and such), with contemporary aesthetic sensibilities (aka not too retro looking/sounding). Any advice?

In the drug creation rules, does the Potency and HT roll rule things only affect Disadvantages the drug would give you? So, say, if you had something that gave you Combat Reflexes and Low Pain Tolerance, if you succeeded the HT roll, you wouldn't be affected by Low Pain Threshold?

>>43922805
For the most part you're true, but even with more reasonable attributes, classes like, say, the knight or swashbuckler still have a ridiculous amount of points in their weapon skill. Still, there are worse ways to go about this, and I understand not wanting to fiddle with this more than you already do.

To answer your earlier question more directly, I don't think it will negatively impact the balance of the game too badly. Only the Wizard and Cleric (and possibly the Thief) are going to get hit really hard; while other classes have only a few core skills they really invest in – their main weapon skill, maybe a supplemental skill or two, but that's it – caster's typically have a few points invested in a HUGE number of spells (to a lesser extent, so do Thieves with mundane skills), so the loss of an attribute would be expensive to buy back through skill improvements alone.

>>43922822
Ultra-Tech for gear, and that's about it for crunch. Maybe check the 3e Cyberpunk and Cyberworld books for setting/fluff inspiration.

However, something important you need to decide now is what kind of focus you want to put on hacking and how you want to portray it. There are a bunch of options, so if you could give us an idea of the direction you want I'd be glad to help.

>>43922834
I believe so, yes.

>>43922999
Hmm, are you sure about that drug thing? Because I just read Biotech, and apparently the final cost should be reduced to 1% of what it says if it's a common drug. This makes it seem very easy to make extremely powerful drugs on the cheap, since you don't have to bother with potency.

>>43922999
Thanks, anon. As for the Wizards/Clerics, surprisingly, that's exactly the feel I want to have from magicks in my campaign. I am scarred by D&D balance for life, so lower-points-total wizard should (I hope) feel special but not outshine anything else (especially if melee fighters won't have ridiculous amounts of ST/weapon skill).

>>43923331
I figured as much. To keep spells from doing nothing, though, I'd recommend changing the spells section of the template from 1 point in 30 spells to 2 points in 15 spells. I limits there scope and keeps the spells they do know from being totally unreliable crapshoots.

Also, you shouldn't have to worry too much about caster/martial imbalance in DF, because A) spells often take multiple rounds to cast, which means no instant "I win" conditions, B) FP costs are pretty limiting, and C) DF ditches all problematic spells like teleporting or accurate divination.

>>43923236
I'm honestly not 100% sure, but at the same time I think it's a moot issue. The PCs won't be whipping up ultra-tech drugs on a whim, the rule is there to help GMs fairly price any drugs they want to include in the setting. Even if the PCs *are* designing drugs in a lab, pharmaceutical experimentation is a tricky thing and as such the GM can impose that whatever drug they make doesn't come out perfect (i.e. they finally got that cell-regrowth formula to work, but they can't seem to shake the side effect that makes people go berserk).

Alternatively, the Mad Science issue of Pyramid plays with the ultra-tech drug design rules. Under those rules, drugs *have* to give disadvantages equal to the granted advantages (though going above and beyond makes the drug cheaper) and the HT roll doesn't negate those side effects but merely mitigates them; the drug's benefits last for X and the side effects last for some fraction of X. The fraction depends on you HT roll; roll well and the side effects are gone quickly, leaving you with only the benefits, but fail the roll and the side-effects can persist after the benefits wear off. This rule is for more of a Jekyll/Hyde drug, though, so that might not fit all settings and tones.

>>43923517
Alright, fair enough. I suppose I'll have to flex my creativity in regards to the potency and such.

In a setting where all Ritual Path Magic involves calling on spirits to work rituals ( as suggested when replacing Thaumatology with Ritual Magic as a core skill,) does it still make sense to have a Path of Spirits as a separate skill? It strikes me as odd that a particular mage might be great at, say, influencing nebulous invisible spirits to mess around with peoples' bodies with Path of Body but shit at or mostly incapable at influencing discrete spirits with Path of Spirit.

>>43923671
I would say yes, but there's a way to work around it. The sprits used in the other Paths are base, barely conscious balls of magic, closer to automatons than entities; influencing or forcing your will on them is easy. True Spirits, though, are conscious and self-aware and aren't as prone to taking orders from just anyone; mages need to study how to affect them specifically.

For example, blasting someone with fire would, fluff-wise, be the mage ordering Fire Sprites – those weak barely conscious spirits – to create and then fling fire at whatever he's pointing at. Maybe the ordering requires energy, or maybe the spirits take/eat the energy and then do the requested action in turn automatically. Trying to boss around Aral, Angel of the Hearth (a more strong-willing fire sprit, hence it having not only an individual name but a title to boot) in the same basic bitch manner won't work. You either need to learn how to deal with sprits like that in a more direct manner (or treat them nicely and negotiate).

>ST/HT as seperate stats
>ST determines HP

Awww can someone make me feel not so bad abt this

>>43923959
Strength is based on sheer muscle mass. HP in GURPS is purely your ability to withstand physical damage and thus is based on sheer mass. So pretty clearly they're related for normal people. For characters where they aren't so much for some reason you can always buy HP up or down separately to whatever degree is necessary.

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I am here for the Swedish friend to post to book sources, as I cannot be arsed with PDFs and would rather just build a library of 1500 euro in the next couple years.

Looking especially for the Faerie book, hardcover.

>>43924315
Out of print, like pretty much all of them.

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>>43924315
In the meantime, I would like to start a discussion about the future of GURPS.

http://www.sjgames.com/general/stakeholders/

How do you believe GURPS will be treated the next couple years? I bet there will be no 5th edition, as it is not justified, however, so many books are out of print with a need for supply. Should we gather our forces and write individually to SJG and request print-on-demand?

>>43924326
I know, I am looking for use copies in EU territories.

>>43924315
>I cannot be arsed with PDFs
You're going to have to get used to them, because GURPS is pretty much all-pdf at this point, and that's unlikely to change any time soon.

>>43924331

Print-on-demand is something I think they're aware of as an option - I seem to recall Kromm mentioning it at some point.

>>43923959

Consider the folowing:
A regular human with HT 10 and ST 10
A giant with HT 11 and ST 22.
A huge monster with HT 12 and ST 35

HT, like DX and IQ, varies around 10, while ST is open-ended and scale with size. It is therefor better to describe how much physical punishment one can take with ST. HT is still important for this, as it is the stat you roll against not to fall unconscious/die from your injuries.

>>43924315
I'm afraid I'm gonna disappoint you, they have even fewer books than I remember:
http://www.sfbok.se/search?keys=GURPS

>>43922999

No virtual reality stuff, I imagine something like a number of checks for defeating firewalls and taking over particular systems. A more complex/interesting system could also work, if it's not just additional busy, and is actually fun to solve.

I heard that GURPS is supposed to have great ranged/gun combat. Could somebody explain in short what exactly makes it great?

>>43925212
A fast get-it-out-of-the-way approach would be something like a regular contest of Computer Hacking vs. the target system's ICE. Win and you get in, lose and you were traced, no winner either way, your latests exploit didn't work, try again.

Pyramid #3/21 Cyberpunk has an article that gives hacking a bit more cinematic detail; there are now specific programs that work almost like a Rock<Paper<Scissors system, so there's a bit of a puzzle solving aspect. At the same time, you could make a hacker that specializes in the digital version of the smash and grab – fuck stealth and alarm systems, break firewalls, get in, get out, and trust your anti-trace software was worth the cash your blew on it – and I like that the different approaches to hacking, like different approaches to combat, feel distinct.

Both the above systems favor hollywood hacking where the party cyberninja can hack though security systems as the rest of the party is working their way though the complex proper (though the longer you make each round in the extended contest take, the less hollywood it feels). There are other systems of varying levels of realism, plus everyone and their dog has a homebrew.

>>43925654
I don't personally think the ranged combat is "great" but it does feel "real". I don't want to spoil it if anyone has real arguments because I've only had one game with a guy using a bow and it was his first GURPS game. So far I've learned that Aiming is very important and to use simplified range penalties.

>>43925654
It's realistic. Like, if you're a regular guy and you take a bullet, you're likely gonna go down, unless you were hit in the shoulder or it's a tiny babby caliber or something.

>>43926016

Cool, thanks. If you've played Invisible Inc. by any chance, basically that's how I imagine it, so a mixture of support for the agents in the field, combined with the usual data extraction/manipulation etc.

>>43926171
Only if you take a bullet to the torso, groin, neck or head. Even then, a poor roll and armor can save the guy.
Limbs have a cap beyond which damage is lost, even if your fancy anti-materiel does 10d damage, on an average man, you won't do more than 6 damage on his legs/arms, or 4 or his hands/feet. I mean sure, likely you dismembered your target and the limb is cut or just completely fucked forever, but he still won't lose more HP than 6. And if he succeeds on his HT roll to stay conscious, nothing prevents him from keeping shooting at you if you didn't blow the right limb.

If I have enough ST, is it ever worth it to use a 2hander in one hand? Or just grab a better 2h?

>>43926257
Raw damage? Get a heavier 2H. Freeing up the hand only helps with defenses (shields ain't actually for pussies) or utility (can grab/grapple, hold another item, maybe wield another weapon, etc.).

However, if you're strong enough to 1H a 2Her, you probably don't need much more raw damage. Unless you plan on slicing heavily armored knights open like tin cans, you don't need much damage to be absolutely lethal in a low-tech game (unless you're talking monster hunting, I suppose).

>>43926257
If you're so strong, consider getting a higher SM weapon. Using 2h weapons 1handed is usually awkward - it changes the skill and reduces the damage (according to MA).

>>43925654

You can make gunfights in GURPS both detailed and realistic, which is 'good' for some people. It can also be more abstract and lightweight, but I don't think it's exceptionally good at that.

The basic elements are that combat rounds are very short (1 second) and range penalties are harsh (odds of hitting someone 20 yards away are poor for even competent gunfighters without aiming or automatic fire). Most bullets don't hit their target, but those that do will usually fuck you up, especially if they are from a rifle (or machine gun) and you don't have armour. Hits to the skull or vital organs are often instantly lethal, while others will often leave you crippled, unconscious or at least incapacitated for a few rounds.

Surprise attacks by someone who has time to line up a good shot are incredibly lethal. A single shooter you can see aiming at you is much less so for a typical PC, but avoiding his shots will make it hard to fight back effectively (you lose any aiming bonus if you dodge).

If you want to use them, there are rules for different shooting stances, modifiers for whether the target is standing, crouching, lying down, etc. Detailed rules for drawing weapons and ammunition from different places in different positions, using odd gunfighter techniques like fanning revolvers and wrapping rifle slings around your arms to brace, entire shooting styles with numerous tiny differences like perks and techniques they train...

And it's probably one of the most detailed games around when it comes to modelling and listing different types of firearm as well as the accessories they come with. There are hundreds (OK, I haven't actually counted, but it seems like hundreds) of different firearms written up, with variants and rules for all kinds of customisation and accessories (there are like a half-dozen different pistol holsters, different types of sights, different types of suppressor, muzzle weights, multiple different rifle slings, fuckloads of stuff...)

>>43926257

If you have a two-handed weapon skill and nothing to do with your free hand, use it two-handed. Being able to use it in one hand is useful in case you need to hold something or get one arm crippled, but the change of skills and becoming unready after an attack mean you will usually be better-off transitioning to a secondary weapon (but if you have a weapon bond on your enchanted, very-fine greatsword or something it might be worth accepting the penalties to keep getting the benefits).

If you have a one-handed weapon skill and want to choose between using a normal one-handed weapon or a two-handed one you are looking at trading being able to attack every round for greater reach and a little more damage. Generally speaking, it's best to stick with a weapon designed for one hand because having an unready weapon sucks balls (a secondary weapon or shield makes this somewhat less of a problem). If you can use the rules from LTC2 to get an oversized weapon, that might work out better (skill penalty for using a weapon too big for your SM, but you can get a perk to cancel that).

If you are so strong that the weapon doesn't become unready when used then it's basically fine to treat it as a one-handed weapon. At this level of strength there is usually not much point to using a two-handed weapon in two hands unless you can get an oversized weapon and you are going to be facing opponents which need truly massive damage to take down.

Does such thing as "Gurps Microlite" exist?

Like an extremely pared down GURPS that's chopped out like 80% of the fat for a very specific explanation of the mechanics, or for a singular purpose?

>>43926754
GURPS Lite?
GURPS Ultralite is basically "make shit up and roll 3d6 to see if it's lower than your number!".

>>43926754
Nope.

I actually really like the Microlite conversions for most games though, so that would be cool.

>>43926754
Probably the bare minimum from Lite would be the following chapters:
Success Rolls
Reaction Rolls
Damage Rolls
Character Points
Basic Attributes
Secondary Characteristics
The first paragraph of advantages that explains what they are
The first paragraph of disadvantages that explains what they are
The section labeled skills, but you can skip the skills list
For Armor, shields, and weapons, look at the desired items first to know which stats to read about.
If you are doing any combat, the entire section on combat

That list might cut the page count in half from thirty pages to about 15.

>>43927010
15 is too many.

Microlite has to fit on a single page. d20 Microlite did this by dropped half of the used stats, as well as gutting the magic system to be a weird HP based nightmare.

>>43927044
Hmm... if the challenge is to fit it on a single page, there is still some fat to trim from each of those... Success roles could be boiled down to "roll against a target, rolling less than or equal to the target is success. Typical targets are a skill level, attribute, or secondary characteristic. Include modifiers for unusually simple or difficult challenges." That gets rid of like one page right there.

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>>43927044

>>43927154
You basically need three core things for Microlite rules

- Core mechanic (d20, 3d6, flip a coin, whatever the system uses for resolution)
- Character creation (this is the big problem with condensing GURPS imo; the freedom is what makes it GURPS. d20 Microlite just offers 4 classes/4 races pared down to the max)
- Ancillary information (for d20 Microlite, this was the spellcasting)

>>43927169
Not bad. Messy as fuck, and obviously intended for people who have dabbled with GURPS, but this is a good starting point.

>>43927169
This is a completely different game though. But it is somewhat close to GURPS proper. And because of the six page micro-booklet format, there is a ton of whitespace that could be used if one were to attempt to boil down GURPS proper.

>>43926579
Do you have one action per round, so that you basically sacrifice a round for better aiming?
Also, from what you are writing, I take that attacking and definding is split up, so defending doesn't require you to sacrifice your round?

>>43927325
Yes, that is the case. Usually most see it as not worth it to waste a turn aiming in an RPG but believe me it's worth it in GURPS

I wonder what the minimum needed to make a GURPS rules-set which was still compatible with baseline GURPS would be?

You could cut attributes down to just the primary ones, have only wildcard skills and let everything else default to attribute-5. Strictly speaking you don't need advantages or disadvantages.

Counting points might be a bit too detailed. Instead, possibly have everyone start with one skill at attribute+0 and all attributes at 10. Then let them buy a number of packages which would be either another skill, raise a skill by +2, +1 DX, +1 IQ or +1 ST and HT.

Use the abstract ranged combat rules from Action 2, but trim them down even more. Only allow Attack or Move as manoeuvres.

Melee weapon damage is just based on ST: effectively all melee weapons are sw+1 crushing. Ranged weapons can be abstracted to bows and thrown weapons being the same as melee weapons, guns being about 3d. Automatic weapons just give +2 to skill, basic aiming can be assumed in the abstract range penalties, but maybe allow rifles to cancel -3 or so in long-range penalties?

>>43927555
Basically you are describing simplified Pointless Looting and Slaying.
>basic aiming can be assumed in the abstract range penalties, but maybe allow rifles to cancel -3 or so in long-range penalties
Gun Fu, Simplified Range

>>43927325
Yes, that's the basics.

On you turn, you take a manoeuvre, which is something like 'Attack', 'Aim', 'All-Out-Attack', etc. The manoeuvre you choose determines what you can do in your round (for example, Aim means you don't attack but get a bonus for your next attack, All-Out-Attack lets you attack with a bonus) and also how you can react to other people attacking you until the start of your next turn (called an 'Active Defence'). If you chose to make an All-Out-Attack, you don't get any active defences at all, if you chose to Aim, you can make an active defence but you lose the aim bonus. You can make several active defence rolls against different attacks, but the more you have to make the tougher it is (for example, you get a bonus if you retreat away from a melee attack or dive for cover from a ranged one, but you can only claim that one per turn). A successful active defence mostly cancels out an attack.

PCs and other high-powered characters tend to have decent active defence scores, so they can be quite hard to kill so long as they actually get to make their rolls. But most characters can only defend against an attack which they can see coming. By default GURPS assumes that you can see someone in front of you aiming a weapon at you and dodge out of the line of fire (games where this isn't so possible are significantly nastier), hence why concealed snipers are usually much more effective than people just standing in the open.

Anyone got an alt download for Pyramids 3-17 and 3-47? The ones in the Mega don't seem to be working for me.

>>43927555
What is the point of doing this?

>>43927851
Some people think trimming the fat is always a good thing, forgetting that you need a little fat on your steak for it to be anything resembling good.

>>43927882
That's what I was wondering about. Even playing Lite is kind of below the minimum I'd want to indugle in, even if it could be helpful for new players.

>>43927908
On a practical note, having a very well condensed reference sheet for the easier to forget calculations (Eg, similar to the GM screen) could be helpful... Formulas that are difficult to remember like slam damage or a condensed reference for RPM for people that insist on creating incantations on the fly... though, that is slightly in a different realm than "instructions to teach a total system virgin how to play gurps in the fewest words possible."

Hey guys, just started reading up on some GURPS sourcebooks for the first time, and I gotta say, the research that went into writing all this stuff for a game about rolling dice is just amazing. It's useful even if you never plan on running a GURPS game.

Hey, GURPS general, I'm planning on running an oldschool style cyberpunk game with a bit of a psionic twist in GURPS, and was wondering if anyone thinks I'm missing anything from this quick chargen/setting info handout.

BOOKS
Basic
Psi tech
Psi Powers
Psis
Ultra-Tech
High-Tech
Tactical Shooting
Bio-Tech
Cyberpunk (To some degree, most stats are either restatted in Bio/Ultra-tech(

Starting cash is 10,000E (Euros. Though the standard currency can also arguably be Yen, or even precious metals, drugs, whatever you can barter. Assume 50 Yen = 1 Euro if you want a conversion.)
Assume CR2 whenever necessary

TECH LEVEL 9 WITH THE FOLLOWING EXCEPTIONS
-Confirm with GM if you want to take anything involving nano-tech
-No 'wireless' tech (Most things are wired, either through a neural interface or to a phone jack of some sort)
-Nerve Pistols, Nerve Rifles and Tactical Neural Disruptors are all available but ONLY on the seizure setting.
-Gauss Minineedlers, Gauss Needlers, and Gauss Needle Rifles
-Portable Railguns

Also, for VR things, I'm converting over the old Cyberpunk GURPS book to 4e, because it looks pretty good.

>>43929273

The various Tech and Toys pyramids have additional cybernetics, some of which are quite appropriate for that outline of yours.

The Cyberpunk issue also has a look at hacking.

Otherwise I think you've got a fairly good set there.

Let's say a non-fighter character has a small allowance of points for his combat skills, and he chooses to buy only one melee weapon skill, to have a sidearm for self-defense. Which skill would be best for him?

Staff:
+ Parry bonus
+ Reach (keeping the enemy away should be pretty important for weak fighter)
+ sw+1 damage
+ Cheap, easy to obtain, won't raise any suspicions
- Crushing
- Two-handed, can't use with shield

Rapier
+ Reach
+ One-handed, you can get a shield just to claim a DB for parry
+ Impaling
+ Fencing
- Fencing
- Expensive
- Low damage (especially with non-edged version)

Broadsword:
+ Reach
+ Damage
+ One-handed
- Not fencing
- Expensive
- Higher ST requirement (though if you have ST less than 10, you shouldn't participate in combat at all)

Flail:
+ sw+3 damage
+ Defense penalties - very important
+ One-handed
+ Pretty cheap
- No reach
- Crushing
- Skill is DX/Hard
- Morningstar requires ST 12, other flails suck

>>43929896
Out of those I'd go for the staff. Being unobtrusive and having the parry bonus seems good. And dealing crushing might mean you can beat people up without spilling all their blood and killing them, possibly avoiding making excess enemies out of their friends and relatives.

>>43929896

Can you choose weapons from Low-Tech or Martial Art or is this restricted to just Basic Set stuff?

I'd generally go for a shield and a cheap one-handed weapon which can still parry OK, like a hatchet or spear. It's probably worth putting a point into shield skill so you have a block as well as just parries and dodges even if it means losing a point of weapon skill, but just the DB alone is still good.

>>43929896
I'd say staff or broadsword, depending on how heavy a shield you are willing to carry. Only pick rapier if you're sure you won't have to face heavy weapons.

>>43929896
>>43930020

As I understand it, a quarterstaff would be considered a serious weapon by most medieval people. Maybe not quite as alarming as walking around with a morningstar or something, but certainly in the same category as swords, knives, spears and bows (which admittedly weren't really restricted much).

Also GURPS staves are apparently reinforced with iron spikes and such by default; smooth wooden ones which look a bit less threatening would be -1 damage.

>>43930083
Anything goes.
>like a hatchet or spear
I was thinking about that, but honestly they don't offer much advantages. Hatchets are pretty weak, axes and picks are unbalanced (which is bad for inexperienced fighter). Spear can be one-handed or have reach, but not both at once, and it requires a Staff skill and Form Mastery to be effectively used two-handed.
>It's probably worth putting a point into shield skill so you have a block
Actually, it's not worth putting less than 4 points into Shield (2 if your DX is odd). Otherwise, your Block wouldn't be better than your Dodge+DB.

>>43930114
Fair enough.

>>43930140
"What are you talking about? That's just my walking stick!" As for flails, there is a little thing called "slungshot", which was used all over the world, sometimes as concealed weapon hidden in a sleeve. Unfortunately, it has parry -2U and its defense penalties are halved in GURPS.

What kind of limitation to my Alternate Form is Berserk forces me to change if I fail the roll?

Say my normal self has Berserk (15) -5, whenever I blow that roll and go Berserk, I *have* to shift into my alternate bestial form for the duration and can't shift back until I shake off the Berserk. When I'm not Berserk though, I can shift in and out of the form normally.

Is it a -10% Uncontrollable limit? Or is there something better to cover it?

>>43930599
That sounds almost exactly what it is for. If you are worried because you have a bunch of self-control roll disadvantages, ask your GM if you can split the difference with a -5%.

>>43930400
>Spear can be one-handed or have reach, but not both at once
Long Spear from Low-Tech: Reach 2, 3* one handed. 0U Parry, but pick up a shield and you can dodge reliably (or defensive attack with the spear to let you keep your parry; if you aren't a dedicated fighter, defensive attacks should be your bread and butter anyway)
Thrust-based damage stinks, but the imp balances it out for un/lightly-armored targets. If your GM is allowing stuff from Low-Tech Companion 2, you can make the spear Armor Piercing for CF +3 or +9 depending on how your GM interpret's the pricing, so armor isn't necessarily a show stopper either. If it's only +3, you can slap on other modifiers and costs would still be low.

>>43930599
Uncontrollable Trigger from GURPS Powers might be worth looking at. Instead of generic stress triggering the ability, its a specific item or condition. Rare items or Almost Always resisted conditions aren't considered meaningful limitations. If you take it, it'll be for flavor as it should happen so rarely (also, it's mostly beneficial; if your Berserk triggers, you probably SHOULD be in your warform).

>>43930986
>>43931100
Yeah, was almost thinking of pricing it the same as the Disad, because Berserk (6) and Berserk (15) shouldn't have the same point cost.

Also, I agree it isn't a huge disadvantage, but if you want to avoid letting people know you are a "horrible were-creature!"* and the fact that is has No Fine Manipulators and Can't Speak would seem to make it a minor inconvenience.

I think I may put a minimum duration on it too.

*Speaking of being a horrible were-creature, can't you take a Social Stigma for it, even if you aren't really one, just look like one (say you have a different power source and abilites, but still "I turn into an animal and fuck shit up" at it's core)? Maybe a -5 Secret turning into a -10 Social Stigma?

How would this Social Stigma interact with the one the beast form would get by being an (not so dangerous) Animal (-10) or (very dangerous) Monster (-15)

>>43931302

I think you could have both social stigma (valuable property) or bestial and secret (shapechanger) or reputation (shapechanger) on the same form; people treat you like an animal, but if they see you changing, there's a whole other level of shit to deal with.

Social Stigma (monster) probably overrides any reputation though; nobody cares if you're a were-tiger or just a normal tiger when you're in tiger form, either way you're an unacceptable threat. So only take secret / reputation on your human form.

>>43931438
It is just a Secret that would be "flipped" more often than usual I guess, is that acceptable?

>>43930400
Hatchets are pretty good: they can be Fine pretty cheap, don't have a U Parry, and are decent throwing weapons.

>>43931302
The werewolf from horror seems to have a secret which applies in both forms and bestial as a full blown disadvantage only in wolf form (but as a quirk in human form... not sure why).

The implied werecat template would have a secret in both forms and social stigma (valuable property).

>>43931500
Seems OK.

Honestly, I don't see people reacting to a shapechanging berserker that much worse than a normal berserker unless there's a really specific social norm where flipping out and attacking people in a frenzy is somehow OK but doing it while in animal form is beyond the pale. I know people are nervous about supernatural shit, but you'd think they would also be nervous around insane killers.

>>43931654
I think it's a question of assumptions of capability. Rod the Violently Unstable is avoided for his propensity to fly off the handle, but at the end of the day he's still a normal human. Now, someone that acts like rod and is *supernatural*? That's even more terrifying, because you can no longer assume ANYTHING about them. They grew fur and claws, so who's to say they can't rip a Buick in half or move at lightning speed or curse you with a glare or make YOU a werewolf with a bite too?

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Hmm, it seems like katana is only weapon in Broadsword skill that has Reach 2 on swing and without parry 0U (well, there is also an edged rapier, but it costs more and has worse damage). Looks like katanas are definitely not underpowered in GURPS.

>>43931861
I assume you're looking at Basic Set here. In Low-Tech, Longswords are also listed with reach 2 under broadsword skill.
Basically, Katanas are longswords who are slightly worse at stabbing and slightly better at slashing, just as it should be. And they both use the same skill, no "Exotic weapon"-bullshit.

>>43931968
Nah, I know about longswords, but they are unbalanced if used with Broadsword skill.

>>43932057
You're thinking of bastard swords. Longswords are balanced for both two an one-handed use.

>>43932141
Whoops, my bad. Still, they don't have reach on swing attack.

general, anyone knows how much rigts does a arab woman in the 13th century have?

>>43927699
Guy from before here, I have one more question about the combat. A very hypothetical question, so bear with me.
In many RPGs where you have exactly one action per round, it's usually the better choice to stand your ground and wait for the opponent to come to you, especially if you are in a battle 1v1. Basically, if you only have one action, using that one on, say, Extra Defense and waiting for your opponent to use up his action to come to you is the smart thing to do, because he sacrifices his turn and you can hit him in the face first. How does GURPS get around that problem?

>>43932369
I'm not sure what the problem is.

>>43932369
What you are describing are two different maneuvers in GURPS - you need All-Out Defense to get a bonus to defense, and you need Wait to attack the opponent before he comes next to you.

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>>43932369
One misunderstanding to clear up I think: Defending doesn't use up your one action per turn. Depending on the special options you use for your action, you can possibly forfeit a defense or make it slightly weaker.

Generally, hurting the other guy first in GURPS gives an edge because of shock penalties and stun (unless you are both high level combatants immune to shock and stun) but there are a few edge cases where attacking later would be better.

I think Martial Arts has more sophisticated rules for when waiting for an enemy to attack and trying to interrupt them or set them up for a riposte or counter-attack among a few other more detailed interaction scenarios.

>>43932369
You forgot that "Step" is a thing. You can edge closer to your enemy and attack on the same turn. Of course, if the enemy doesn't want to fight and moves away, or uses a longer reach weapon, there's always move-and-attack.

>>43932369
Most manoeuvres give you some degree of movement. So you can start out of range, step forwards into range and attack on your turn.

However, there is a possible strategy where you can ready an attack and wait for someone to come to you and if you have significantly more reach than your opponent you can sometimes get several attacks on him while he is closing on you. So approaching to attack someone is dangerous. One strategy to get around it is to advance while making an all-out defence until you are close enough to attack.

>>43932369

You can move *and* attack.

Attack: Step.
All-Out Attack: up to half Move, only forward.
Move and Attack: up to Move, but at -2 on roll to avoid falling or tripping. Penalty on attack.

>>43932369
>It is even better to act quickly and err than to >hesitate until the time of action is past.
>Carl von Clausewitz

The real answer is "it depends." This situation is called "Cascading Waits," and in GURPS aren't guaranteed to work. If you don't score a hit you've sacrificed the initiative for no real gain.

Okay, I just thought of something. All-Out Defense+Riposte. I think it may be pretty great for a duel. Wait for the enemy attack, accept -2 on your parry, add +2 from AOD, then attack in some hit location.

>>43932731
I'd rather spend a turn on a Feint if I'm skilled.

>>43932752

All-Out Attack Double and change one attack to a feint if you are not too concerned about combatants other than your target.

>>43932826
All-out Attack is a sucker's move in most cases.

>>43932826
>All-Out Attack
Eh, it's not like I wanted to be not dead or anything

>>43932208

A muslim woman at that time could own her own property and practise a trade, but would need her wali's (the wali was the man who had responsibility for her, usually her husband or father) permission to travel and was expected not to argue with him. Dress restrictions were somewhat stricter than for men as well, I think.

What that actually translates to in GURPS, I'm not sure. Overall it seems like the description of 'second-class citizen', but the examples give SCC to a 19th century American woman and 'valuable property' to 18th century american women.

I think it's inaccurate to say 18th century american women were worse off than 13th century muslim ones, but maybe if you consider it in terms of freedom relative to other people at the time SCC makes sense for a muslim woman. Her actions were heavily restricted, but almost everyone's were to some extend and she was at least not an actual slave.

>>43932844

If youre planning on needing more than one round to finish the fight you could try Rapid Strike with a Feint ;).

>>43932057
Which is nonsense, no reason for a hand and a half sword to be that unwieldy.

>>43931861
As is a katana having reach 2, they are shorter than many one handed swords. Let alone two handed ones.

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So, I intend to use GURPS Vampire: The Masquerade (a 3e book) in combination with the 4e Basic Set or possibly GURPS Lite. How much modification do I need to do to ensure smoothness of gameplay? I do not have access to the 3e Basic Set but would a 3e book work with 4e and some modifications?

>>43932844

In a duel (especially to first blood) quite a valid tactic I'd reckon.

>>43933157

>How much modification do I need to do to ensure smoothness of gameplay?

Quite some. Especially the disciplines need some serious reworking. IMO.

>>43932916
thanks, i will ask my gm if he can make and new "social estigma"

>>43933214
Explain, I am new to GURPS in general

Is it just me, or are the wealth advantages seriously broken? In the core rules, you can get the multimillionaire advantageage for a measly 100 points. Sure, you skimp on other stats, but what is stopping you from hiring a small personal army, or a cadre of experts for any task?

>>43933181
It's reckless, but that doesn't mean it can't work. If I was playing I wouldn't try it unless I was playing an Impulsive duelist. I think that trying to be flexible and ready to defend is a better strategy; with an All-out Attack, you have no defenses at all if your attempt doesn't work.

>>43933600
The GM throwing dice at your head?

>>43933600
Wanting to play the game rather than have the GM play it for you? Also, GM restrictions on what advantages are suitable for the campaign.

>>43933600
Eh, you can poison everyone in the universe for 50 points.

>>43933600
>>43933839

Realy, given free reign to do what you want, GURPS IS easy to break. This is known. Playing with people who doesn't deliberately try to break it usually solves this.

>>43933600
Logistical and/or social limitations, maybe. You can't hire people on short notice because you're in the middle of an expedition halfway across the globe from your contacts, hiring hitmen is sort of illegal so you need Streetwise or whatever to hire them discreetly, etc.

>>43933600
Others already said, GM has the right to disallow anything, but I feel like even easier and cheaper might be Ally Group with insane quantities... if each ally is hyper specialized you could have them all at 25% or 50% points... and one ally could be the super incredibly rich guy with generosity and chummy... though even in that case the GM doesn't have to make him lend you huge quantities of money.

There's also a 50 point and change innate attack, the M.U.N.C.H.K.I.N that can do 300 irresistible hp a second to any target within the theoretical limits of the universe.

>>43933600
>Is it just me, or are the wealth advantages seriously broken? In the core rules, you can get the multimillionaire advantageage for a measly 100 points. Sure, you skimp on other stats, but what is stopping you from hiring a small personal army, or a cadre of experts for any task?

If you just want other people to do shit for you, allies, contacts, rank, etc. are generally even more efficient. I think the reason they are so cheap relative to personal competence is that they don't give your character much more 'spotlight time'.

However, wealth is still an amazing advantage just in terms of the gear you can buy. Equipment is a huge deal in GURPS, especially in Low-Tech games where personal armour can cost many times the starting wealth of a normal character and give near immunity to many enemies.

>>43933393
I don't think there's any need for a new one. 'Second class citizen' or 'valuable property' should cover it. The question is: which one is more appropriate?

>>43933181
Its not at all how you actually fight though. Especially in an unarmoured duel.

Its no good giving your opponent a fatal wound if you do it at the expense of defending yourself, a dead man can still take you with him.

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>>43933960
>immunity to many enemies

There is a problem with the armour though. Either DR is too low or damage is too high, either way an average man can penetrate mail with a spear so something is broken. Not even a strong man should be able to do that.

>>43933510
He's saying the mechanics from V:tM that were ported to 3e are probably not a good fit (used as is) into the 4e game

>>43933157
I'd rewrite the Disciplines to bring them more in line with 4th edition.

>>43934176
There's an optional rule for that in low-tech. It converts any damage against armored oponents to crushing, unless you do more than twice the armors DR in damage.

reading through basic set for the first time, wow this is crunchy, how do you teach it to players

>>43934788
its only valid for Plate armor. belive or not chainmail its not hard to pen

>>43934865

Build their characters for them

This is literally what the How To GM GURPS book suggests

>>43920250
So are there any places to find what books fit what kinds of themes or settings /genres? New to gurps and it looks like there are alot of books to go through

>>43934865

Lots of games are crunchy, many of them wildly successful. Some people like it.

Best introduction for new players in my experience is to have them make a character from a template. Only look up the traits on their template. That cuts down the amount of stuff they need to know by a lot.

Think of it like dungeons and dragons; you don't learn the entire spell list before making a character. Your character might not even have spells; if they do, you only need to know which ones you can buy right away.

>>43934865
Tell them to read Lite for rules instead. Then what >>43935002 said:
>have them make a character from a template. Only look up the traits on their template.

>>43934972
Most of the time, the title is a big clue. Horror covers horror games, Fantasy covers fantasy games... most of the ones with odd titles are settings and adventures.

A few important things:

Magic isn't the general-purpose book on how to do magic, that's Thaumatology.

Martial Arts covers all kinds of muscle-powered fighting, armed and unarmed, asian and otherwise. Gun fighting is (even more) detailed in Gun-Fu (over the top) and Tactical Shooting (realistic).

Low-Tech, High-Tech and Ultra-Tech are the equipment books for primitive (up to the age of sail), modern (industrial revolution til today) and sci-fi respectively. Bio-Tech is for both general medical stuff and genetic engineering, mostly the latter.

The Action series covers a couple of things which aren't just suitable for high-action adventures. Action 2 is actually a very useful collection of GM advice and optional rules which can be applied to almost any game. Action 4 is a toolkit for creating modern characters of many different levels of competence.

has anyone ever ran/played a relatively NORMAL gurps game? like low on combat, more or less realistic story.

I think it would be cool to have high level of painting and patron

>>43934865
Start with the lite rules. Once they have those down, you can start adding in bits and pieces from the basic set.

>>43935569
That's kind of the idea of my current game. The characters are kind of hyper-competent because it's based on shows like House, Elementary, Lie to Me, etc. but there are no really fantastic elements and I try and keep things somewhat grounded in reality.

The game is mostly about investigating weird happenings, but the explanation is always rational and scientific if a bit implausible. For example, the PCs went to investigate what people believed was a werewolf, but it turned out to be a previously undocumented disease making infected wolves and people act weird. Then they had to find the source of the infection by tracing animal movements and stuff, eventually discovering an old body which had thawed out of a glacier. The virus had been dormant in the ice for many years, then infected mammals which scavenged the corpse.

Half the PCs have no combat skills at all and in the rare instances when violence does break out they generally try to minimise harm to their opponents, using tasers and unarmed techniques rather than firearms.

>>43932697
That actually describes my problem.
If you have two opponents and "Move + Attack" incurs a penalty, while "All Out Defense" gives you a bonus to defending, wouldn't it be smarter to defend, let your Opponent come to you and then attack when he doesn't have the defense bonus because he attacked? Going in first pretty much puts you at a disadvantage that way and I was curious how GURPS gets around that. Otherwise you'd have two people standing around and glaring at each other for days.

I'm just pissed at how dodging makes you lose your aim but defending in any way doesn't make you lose your evaluate. I know it makes sense, but I'm still pissed.

>>43935808
The advantage of attacking first is basically that you get to attack first. Everything else being equal, the one who makes more attacks wins the fight, so attacking first gives an advantage.

If you are interested in avoiding the large penalty of the move and attack, you can do a slam. If you do it with a shield, or I think according to some optional rules somewhere, a long impaling weapon, the recoil would be against your weapon instead.

>>43935808
You only have to move and attack if the guy outranges or is much quicker than you. Just like in real life.

The guy with a spear is going to poke at you out of range so you either have to back off or make yourself vulnerable to being hit by moving inside his reach.

But if its two people with swords or axes then they can just use their free step to get close enough.

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>>43936281
I also found this option. For only 1 FP, you can do a move and attack with no penalty and no cap.

>>43935229
Cool thanks.

Back to the lycathrapy stuff we were discussing earlier, but shouldn't it have a -5% or -10% "Magic" limit on it, so you can't shift in a No Mana area?

>>43937562
Depends on whether it's a kind of supernatural effect that relies on mana, I suppose? Personally I tend to find the whole idea that magic relies on locally-variable ambient energy from around the user an odd assumption on GURPS's part. And the fact it's presumably incorporated into the balance of various things makes me worry about removing it in some cases.

>>43935857
Evaluate is looking for an opening or a pattern in your opponent's movements.

Aim is steadying yourself and focusing. It doesn't make sense to steadily leap around unpredictably.

>>43938530
Well, I guess being a person or being a bear is not magic, but the transformation is something else due to mass change etc. so the ability to change would require ambient mana? Not sure.

On the subject of were-beasties, would you let a PC using their beast form as their main combat form buy more DR since armouring is tricky. There is no way for the armour to shift with you, is there? Guess one could buy Absorbent Change twice and get a cute little bear harness.

For a DF game, should I go for LT item lists? What are some crucial changes if I were selective about it? (I've heard the shields are more flimsy and armor lighter, don't know about weapons).

>>43934972

How to be a GURPS GM does have a section on this.

>>43941636
I don't foresee an issue with weapons; DF1 says you can pick out weapons from Martial Arts as well as the Basic Set, and I'm sure had LT existed at that time, it would have been allowed too.
I'm a tad warier for shields and armor, though. At the very least, I think most DF players would enjoy just picking armor bits out of Basic Set than making their own suits like LT does it. I vote skip it.
I would be fine with LT's miscellaneous gadgets and gear; it might have some cool and useful stuff, but by and large the more cinematic/magical stuff from BS/DF will trump it eventually anyways.

>>43941883
There is Low Tech Instant Armor if you want the picking-helmets-out-of-a-catalog experience with Low-Tech armor.

>>43941636
Okay, what do you get from LT:
1. Much more detailed armor, more armor types, lighter TL4 plate armor
2. Shields finally have non-retarded DR and HP. Finally, they are actually breakable now, which makes them less overpowered.
3. Lots of DELICIOUS stuff for ranged fighters. Steel crossbows, reflex bows, various accessories. Also firearms, if you're into that kind of thing.
4. Some new weapons. Nothing fancy, really.

>>43942045
LTC2 is also great if you want some custom melee weapons without getting Low-Tech itself. Just ignore the hilt rules, they are kinda retarded (I would say that adding a hilt to a weapon shouldn't give any bonuses, but removing one should give penalties).

This might be a stupid question, but does Arm Lock take hit location penalties?

Say I'm using it offensively... first I have to grapple my opponent using Judo or Wrestling. Do I need to grapple his arm, or just grapple him in general?

Then on my next attack, I can use Arm Lock. Does that need to target his arm at -1 or does it use the full Arm Lock level?

>>43944210
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/faq/FAQ4-3.html#SS3.3.5
>When using a Technique that is specifically aimed at one body part, do I have to apply the Hit Location penalty?

>No. When a technique can only be aimed at one particular Hit Location (Head Butt, Choke Hold, Neck Snap, Arm Lock, etc), its default already includes the Hit Location penalty, so you don't have to count it again.

How would one stat a jackhammer as a weapon in GURPS? I'm writing a post apocalypse campaign right now and I have a lot of....unconventional weapons I'd like to use in play. I imagine it could be like a very fast, automatic spear...but I dont know.

>>43944875
There is stats for a jackhammer on page 27 of High-Tech. In short, they do 7d of huge piercing damage with a armor divisor of 2.

>>43944875

High-Tech says it does 7d(2) Pi++ damage but gives no other stats.

Presumably that's damage against a fixed object; it seems unlikely to be that effective when used as a weapon.

I'd probably say it is used with Spear skill at a penalty. Huge ST requirement. About 4d(2) crushing damage, at a guess.

>>43944920
Yeah. I assumed the only person using it as a weapon would be a drugged out bandit king or a wasteland Hercules

>>43944875

From some quick web research it seems that one hit from a jackhammer is around 40-50 ft/lbs. of energy. By comparison, a .22 LR round can easily deliver 150 ft/lbs. A strong man swinging a decent lever can produce a few hundred foot-pounds of force and even a simple stab from a fairly average guy has similar energy to the jackhammer.

So I'd say a jackhammer probably doesn't do more than about 1d damage per strike at most.

However, it does strike pretty quickly. I can't find a good source of quite how fast they are, but it seems like maybe 5-10 hits per second. Possibly you could use something like the rapid fire rules to determine how many blows hit, but I think it would probably be easier to just multiply damage by some arbitrary amount to get roughly the effect you want. Something like 3 or 4 dice total seems reasonable.

>>43944875
>>43944920
>>43945084

Skill is maybe Spear -2 (but usually at even higher penalty for low ST)
Damage 3-4 d crushing, cutting or piercing?
Parry is probably 0U
Reach seems like it should be 1
ST something like 15 maybe.

>>43944875
why you need a jackhammer stated? are you runing a zombie game?

>>43946378
>I'm writing a post apocalypse campaign
i'm retarded

>>43947628
???

>>43947709
Nothing to see here; move along.

>>43950460
I don't get it

>>43950635
Presumably GURPS players aim for the vitals, while Riddle of Steel aka "Dickstabs Forever" players aim for the dick.

>>43951070
Ah, that makes sense. I've never even heard of Riddle of Steel, so, you know. Why does everyone aim for the dick..?

>>43951257

Presumably the same reason why you always do it in Fallout 1 and 2 - it offers extremely effective shock trauma for the increased difficulty of the shot.

>>43952036
I always aimed for the eyes in Fallout 1 and 2, but, yeah I get your point. GURPS has rules for males getting hit in the stuff too, though, does it not?

>>43952082
I think in GURPS is only gives bonus if you use a crushing attack against them. Any other type is the same as Vitals I think.

>>43952082
Men take double shock from crushing. (It should really affect women too.)
Also -5 to kd rolls.