My group is interested in the idea of a US cop game with supernatural overtones sprinkled in and I'm very much up for running one.
However, being a Bri/tg/ent my understanding of how the various agencies behave within a state/county area is limited and I could use a little help.
The game will be set in Detroit. My understanding is that Detroit has its own PD. Then there are Michigan State Troopers and the Wayne County Sheriff office.
So, my question to USAnons is this; how much crossover is there between those three agencies?
Am I right in thinking that the Sheriffs office handles prisoner and court issues once they have been arraigned?
I assume there is actually little corssover in the metro area as I imagine most if not all crime is handled by the local PD unless it becomes a federal matter and that the Sheriff or State Troopers only get involved either if requested as support by local PD or if they are pursuing suspects etc into the Detroit area.
Am I close or way off?
Yeah, I know since we're all Brits playing I could just wing it and do whatever but I'd like to have some semblance of accuracy in the world if possible just so everyone around the table knows the facts and is reading from the same songbook.
>>43851886
You've pretty much got it. For some supernatural goodness I do suggest watching the shows Grimm and Supernatural though for ideas about how some monsters and such live in recent times.
Not a Chicago-anon, but an Atlanta-anon here. For what it's worth, in Atlanta, there's the Atlanta PD, the Fulton County Sheriff, Fulton County Police, Georgia State Patrol, and some others. Here, the GSP polices the freeways first and foremost. They also police rural areas that don't have their own police force. They backup and assist local police and when necessary, investigate them, such as in an accident between a civilian and a city police car.
The county sheriff runs the local jails serve warrants for the courts, in addition to normal police services if needed. There's also some extra powers that sheriffs have in Georgia. I believe the county Marshall also does work for the courts, and I think business related police work, like bounced checks and such.
The county police basically do police services for unincorporated parts of Fulton County, those places that aren't part of Atlanta proper or another city.
In all cases, police chasing a suspect can cross jurisdictional boundaries under the principal of Hot Pursuit.
And this doesn't get into how we've got separate state wide police agencies that police truckers.
Obviously this ain't Chicago, but I felt like sharing.
>>43852383
Er, you said Detroit and I said Chicago. Sorry 'bout that. Chicago's been in the news, and so on the brain.
>>43851886
X-Cops
Thanks folks, glad I'm vaguely on the right track.
The mrs is a big fan of Supernatural and I know the others 4 players are into that and Grimm so hopefully we'll all be on the same page.
>>43852383
I'm on the job in a small town, so this is probably far less useful for Detroit, however.
Our town force mainly works town property, town roads, town events, and the town court.
The Sherriff is county level and handles county roads and property, waterways, as well as county and district courts and the local courts in towns that have enough money not to look at their budget. They also handle our jails, this might be different in large cities.
The State Police is a state agency and handles state roads, state property, and absolutely no courts.
That however is just a bunch of guidelines and local and county agencies share jurisdiction and regularly work together/step all over each other. The State Police regularly respond to call, especially for assistance, if they're in the area. Often faster than the Sherriff.
If you have anything else I can help with, I'd love to, but you have to keep the thread alive for about 4 hours because I'm heading out to the range.
>>43851886
Detroit-Anon here. When it comes to the Detroit x Wayne County dynamic there are tons of stories of local cops in car chases stopping right on city borders in the metro-Detroit area and allowing that city's force to take over. So treat them like territorial dogs essentially, however Detroit cops would have a bit of a superiority complex as they are probably the best funded in the state (their squad cars are the brand new Chargers), excluding state troopers of course. Statees usually only get involved in high priority cases, (I assume they get some resentment from the local guys), as well as patrolling interstate highways although I doubt they're called in locally I assume they're dispatched by the state itself.
>>43853170
Oh sweet another Detroit Anon. Sup bro?
But yeah he's right. Detroit cops also have a response time of about an hour. I believe it dropped down by about 10 minutes since 2013, but they're not gonna show up for a long ass time.
>>43853170
Atlanta-Anon here. Local forces don't like the Georgia State Patrol, GSP. They say it stands for God's Special People.
>>43853170
>Detroit cops would have a bit of a superiority complex as they are probably the best funded in the state
So what, they don't need to deal on the side to buy gas?
>>43853271
More along the lines of they have the newest top of the line equipment despite being corrupt and as fuck and not actually doing their job most of the time.
>>43853271
More along the lines of they have the newest top of the line equipment despite being corrupt and as fuck and not actually doing their job most of the time.
>>43853204
Good to see I'm not alone here
Don't forget the paperwork. Police, patrol especially, RUNS on paperwork. You incident reports, use of force evaluations, first responder/witness reports, accident reports, and complaint forms. And that's just the crap for dealing with the public. Need to gas up the patrol car because the last crew didn't before returning it? Necessary Use of Funds, 3 pages of Q&A check boxes and a brief statement of facts.Training requests, evaluations, certifications, and review reports. Most Departments in the US have overlapping shifts so they can get started on the paperwork while the next shift hits the street.
So have fun torturing you players when they go Dirty Harry or John McLain by having their character sit through mandatory counciling when they shoot a perp, or fill out 2 office crates of paperwork when they wreck the patrol/plain car.
>>43853903
I'm thinking of having them as a detective squad in the style of Chicago PD type thing as we all played in a patrol cop game last year. But yeah, I'm gonna have the characters drowning in paperwork for everything and am very much looking forward to their characters trying to write up reports when the supernatural stuff starts to leak into their cases. "A guy fired lightning from his fingers at you, huh, detective?". " Oh, and a ghost told you that the guy in the house you entered without a warrant or probable cause was a murderer?".
"Ummm..."
>>43854061
Just make sure you absorb The Wire, The Shield, and Hill Street Blues. Always be aware what level of competency the players are operating at and dealing with (mall cop, night guard, private security, cadet, probee, beat cop, detective, fed, political: captain+) as the tropes change dramatically.
>>43856062
Yup, that's sound advice and a good reminder. I do tend to suffer with runaway syndrome and let spur of the moment cool ideas come out sometimes without taking into account the future impact.
Hopefully I've got a decent handle on it these days.
>>43852355
But Supernatural is shit
>>43856474
Supernatural is great. It's just a schlongfest. You have to pick episodes to watch by guest stars.
As a game genre the police tale is set somewhere between investigation and action. You should have both ends covered.
That means for each NPC worth mentioning prepare combat stats and ways that combat could play out (shove+run, shootout, fumbling for weapon, ambush, ...), as well as goons. Then make up secrets they are keeping. Most of these are irrelevant to the case, some might indicate other possible charges, many are just vanity or pride, but they all give the NPC reason to lie.
Chases are great. They establish tension as well as action, enable you to check other skills than the combat ones, and they throw all the balls in play up in the air to come down where they may. A suspect could escape, or die taking innocents with him. A witness could change his mind. Locations just rush by. And you can let the dice decide the players' fate.
>>43852850
>If you have anything else I can help with, I'd love to
Sorry, gotta rescind this. Apparently I'm now working tonight.
>>43856958
Sorry dude. Hope its a quiet one.
>>43851886
I grew up not far from Detroit; you've pretty much got it.
State Troopers handle the Interstate and State highways.
The Sheriffs office handles a lot of stuff out in the sticks, in the metro area they handle the county jail as well as fugitive recoveries, special task forces, etc.
Detroit Metro Police handle everything in the city limits. Nearly every township/suburb of Detroit has its own police force as well. Sterling Heights, Northville, Farmington Hills. These are typically smaller forces consisting of ~15-50 officers depending on the townships size.
One other point you might be able to use is the Windsor police. Windsor, Canada is connected to Detroit by a bridge and a tunnel. The drinking age in Canada is two years younger than in the US. The Windsor cops are also notorious for roughing up inebriated visitors that step out of line.
Is this a good place to ask about the US prison system?
What distinguishes prison, jail, and federal custody? How do private enterprises play into it? Where would you encounter work detail? Gangs? Or corrupt administrators? What's a warden? What about those white collar places?
And then of course: What works where? Can you have someone killed? Make it look like a suicide? Get drugs, weapons, phones, tools, or other contraband? Do you need gang affiliations, or will money do?
>>43860907
Probably not, but hey, we can try.
>What distinguishes prison, jail, and federal custody?
As the US system uses the terms, jails are city or county lockups and typically limited to shorter stays. Some jurisdictions use them almost entirely for those still in the trial process.
Prisons are State and Federal, and are intended as long-term lock ups.
>How do private enterprises play into it?
Entirely too well. Usually at the State level, a company gets the contract to build, man, and run a prison facility. All the employees are State Contractors, essentially.
>Where would you encounter work detail?
Prisons, usually. Local lock ups *might* have a few internal work details like laundry, but they usually contract all of that.
>Gangs?
At every level.
Or did you mean Chain Gangs for external work details? That's usually a State thing.
>Or corrupt administrators?
Potentially at every level, though Federal vetting is supposed to be better.
>>43861942
>>43860907
>What's a warden?
The guy in charge of a facility. Top Police or just a paper pusher. they run the gamut.
>What about those white collar places?
Lower security since they aren't dealing with murderers, rapists, and child molesters. Otherwise similar.
The other questions are mostly "Prison equals yes; Jail equals no."
>>43851886
is this CoC
>>43851886
everyone is also forgetting about the FBI
there is an FBI department in detroit
i'm not sure on CIA that more like your MI6 while FBI is sort of like your MI5
Here's a run down of my department, at peak strength 0700-1500 M-F (Town of 50k)
6 -9 road officers, 2 Sgts and a Lt
6 vice cop
2 jailers
2-3 traffic officers
4 detectives, 2 CSIs, 3 Cpts and a chief
On weekends it's usually just the road officers, 2 sgts and 2 detectives and a jailer, vice sets their own hours so they come and go
Each guy has a Glock and usually a backup, 3 patrol cars have a Remington 570 and a Colt AR, there are two spares of each in a safe in the watch commanders office.
90 sworn personnel = 180 pistols at best, 5 rifles, 5 shotguns, for the entire department.
>>43851886
depending on the magnitude of supernatural butt buggering
you might want to get familiar with national guard protocols, when domestic situations fall apart completely in a city or a state the national guard gets called in to "resolve" the problem most of the time its natural disaster relief but well... this also happens
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Detroit_riot
pulled it up because its detroit, we have more modern examples
>>43851886
being a brit do you know about how we people in the united states view Detroit
I see some post by people that say they live there. but i am going to be honest detroit is often described in these impolite terms "the ghetto IS the rich neibhorhood" or so i have heard often enough.
At least near me, local police take care of the specific township they're in, and NYS troopers monitor the interstate/major roadways. While some locales have a great deal of emnity between them, most times they're buddy buddy. Check out Super Troopers for a good farcical comedy.
>>43851886
If you feel the need to mix things up above those levels is the FBI that stereotypically takes over the investigation and various special agencies with nationwide jurisdiction though they likely will only be involved in something bigger than statewide or pertaining to their unique area of expertise
Eg the ncis only really does things when the investigation involves the navy.
If you want a coverup CIA is the way to go prolly using the FBI as henchmen.
I'm prolly wrong as most of this is stuff in media pop culture and i have like no knowledge of law enforcement aside from the simplest things
>>43863420
if i remember correctly
the fbi takes over under certain conditions
multistate crime has occured- a crime spree a crime that involves more than one state.
the crime is a federal crime that has little to do with state laws, traitors to the country, upscale art theft, things that get attention from really powerful organizations and people that are not limited to that states resources.
anything involving a foreign national on US soil.
assassinations often get taken over too
The EPA-enviromental protection agency and the CDC- center for disease control are also important and pretty powerful agencies
we also have the ATF- alcohol, tobacco, and firearms. most americans find it a rather mundane organization but it has military swat teams that does raids on illegal fire arm distributors.
There is also the DEA- drug enforcement agency- primarily deal with narcotics and are pretty much swat teams specialized for that, with undercover operatives, and few street level workers.
>>43864029
FBI also gets anything that involves a Reservation.
>>43864052
Does Ohio even have any?
If so, any near Detroit?I can't remember any nearby.
>>43862909
That's quite a few vice cops - thought vice was just whores?
>>43851886
Try looking through the old Delta Green books. Even if you don't want to go the cosmic horror angle there are pretty extensive and well researched notes on lots of different US government agencies and how they operate.
i actually have a question for a run of the mill police officer if they happen to be in this thread
is there really a little book or database filled with codes like "echo foxtrot zulu" that if someone you apprehend says it they have to call it in to the station or insert it into their car computer and it tells them to backdown or follow that persons orders because they are in major deep undercover or need to establish authority with no credentials or questions asked.
i've seen this on tv sometimes and it just baffles me that something like that would exist.
the potential for abuse is massive
>>43864231
Not a cop, but you want the nato alphabet and ten-codes. The latter are being phased out because they differ between jurisdictions and wreak havoc in a multi agency operation. And packet radio is encrypted.
>>43864295
i'm more interested in if there is an actual sting of code you can just spout off and instantly get let go like those cop dramas imply.
it just seems so damn absurd.
>>43864350
That's a daily code phrase given to undercover and civilian clothes officers and patrol men. That way they can signal friendly without blowing cover.
>>43864405
ah so it changes regularly or they have to invent one specifically for a specific cop?
>>43864144
Ohio I don't think has any.
Michigan has a good few, the closest to Detroit might be Isabella.
>>43864495
It is only used where there's a high population density and operations are likely to overlap. Undercover people are brought in from far enough away that nobody knows their face, or fresh from the academy. Their handler issues them a daily phrase that is told to the officers on duty at the shift briefing. The patrol officers don't know the undercover people. But if they arrest someone and the detainee whispers the phrase of the day then they can stop the brutality and ask them if they want to be set loose or booked to keep the cover intact.
>>43851886
so far we have added to OP's list on things to learn about
FBI
CIA (maybe)
National guard
ATF
DEA
and two of the minor agencies that have the ability to declare major shut downs and police state status in case of emergencies. CDC and EPA.
anyone have anything to add to this list of government agencies that may have to associate with local police for what ever reason.
>>43856988
Actually it was pretty nice. Just about no problems, everyone was respectful, good moods all around.
Someone actually apologized for being a dick to me. That isn't a thing that happens.
>>43865580
U.S. marshals service (fuck all if i know what they do)
i'm not even sure if they fall into a branch of any of the previously mentioned
>>43865580
well there is the department for homeland security and national security agency
but i dont think they would would has it out with local police that often
>>43865580
D- D- D- D- D- D- D- D- D- DELTA GREEN!
>>43851886
Don't the Dresden Files take place in Detroit or Chicago or some such city? Reading one or two might give you ideas.
>>43865580
every state also has the SBI which is the state equivalent to an FBI agent
SBI is controlled by the attorney general of the state. sometimes lumped together with the department of public safety to cut back costs in the state, you have to check each state individually to find out if thats the case with Michigan.
>>43865633
Execute federal arrest warrants, federal prisoner transport, guarding federal courthouses, and witness protection primarily.
>>43865580
ATF is primarily a regulatory agency. While they do have investigatory and armed response units, they're highly specific as to what type of crimes they deal with and have a history of incompetency.
>>43865855
same can be said partially about the DEA as what you said about the ATF.
but these are some of the federal agencies that actually talk to and inform the local police of their going on's because of operatives or armed responses. they are also potential operatives they may meet in the field at any given time
>>43865580
Cartels and mafias. In more than a few places, cops, city workers, even the city officials tend to have some ties to criminals in suits.
Since we talking Detroit, I'm convinced this should be an obstacle the players would encounter
>>43865762
Dresden's in Chicago.
Butcher actually took some heat for early geography mistakes and made sure to do his research afterwards.
Dresden Files would also be a good system for this kind of game, actually, it's pretty well suited for modern day supernatural action.
>>43865855
>and have a history of incompetency.
>attempt to set up sting for gun thieves
>arrest our own operative on a technicality
>it's our only arrest
>it's thrown out as entrapment because he's actually retarded and we told him to do it
>also someone broke into our car and stole some automatic weapons, our bad
>also we apparently trashed the storefront we were renting and got the ATF sued, our bad
When the ATF shows up you lock them in a room and continue as if they were not there. Or you step in shit. those are your only options.
>>43865976
Of things to note for Detroit, the city council has to explicitly authorize everything. Like down to fixing the collection boxes on the buses.
This is a city has a farrier and no horses. Obstructive bureaucracy is a big thing, best know a guy.
>>43866299
On Project Gunrunner, under which was Operation Fast and Furious along with three other ATF operations being investigated for gross negligence.
>Indictments filed in federal court, documentation obtained by Senator Grassley, and statements of ATF agents obtained by Senator Grassley and CBS News, show that the ATF Phoenix Field Division allowed and facilitated the sale of over 2,500 firearms (AK-47 rifles, FN 5.7mm pistols, AK-47 pistols, and .50 caliber rifles) in 'straw man purchases' destined for Mexico. According to ATF agents, Mexican officials were not notified, and ATF agents operating in Mexico were instructed not to alert Mexican authorities about the operation. Under Fast and Furious, the ATF attache at the Mexico City Office was not notified unlike Wide Receiver and most other cases.
>Some ATF agents and supervisors strongly objected, and gun dealers who were cooperating with ATF protested the sales, but were asked by ATF to complete the transactions to expose the supply chain and gather intelligence. However, there are accusations that the ATF was attempting to boost statistics to 'prove' that American guns are arming the Mexican drug cartels and to further budget and political objectives. It has been established that this operation violated long-established ATF policies and practices and that it is not a recognized investigative technique.
>Many of these same guns are being recovered from crime scenes in Arizona and throughout Mexico. During Fast and Furious, ATF Phoenix did interdict 105 guns. However, at least 1,856 guns were allowed to walk. Other U.S. agencies, federal, state and local, recovered nearly 270 at crime scenes in the U.S. and 195 Fast and Furious origin guns were recovered by Mexican police at Mexican crime scenes. Two Fast and Furious guns were recovered at the crime scene of the murder of Customs and Border Protection Agent Brian Terry on December 14, 2010 which brought Fast and Furious to public attention.
>>43866791
>FN 5.7mm pistols
Dem wound vectors, man, dem wound vectors.
Seriously though, don't remind me that Holder was AG. How long did they hold up Lynch solely to make sure she wasn't her predecessor?
>>43866976
170 days from nomination to being sworn in.
5.7 a shit without the ammo they don't sell to civilians.
>>43853170
Ypsi cops had chargers years ago.
I actually think they got swapped out for an SUV of some kind a while ago.
>>43851886
Duuuude.
You should look into getting a copy of The Thin Blue Line: A Detroit Police Story. It's a relatively new setting published by the folks at Melior Via.
Details here: http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/155678/The-Thin-Blue-Line--A-Detroit-Police-Story
... No talk about the systems?
Well first rpg that came to mind fits 'modern police investigation with light supernatural elements' with be the supernatural and desden files but I can't say it I'm a fan of the FATE system.
So yeah... Delta Green seems best to use imho.
OP here. Wow, thanks for all of the input, really wasn't expecting this to still be up when I dragged myself out of bed trying to avoid the hangover that was hovering above the sheets, so much pale, awkward British love to y'all.
As for system, the group tried Fate and it just doesn't sit with them sadly so we'll be using nWoD since it's something that everyone is familiar with (cue derailment of thread into system rage/war posts).
Don't want to post too much about current early plans as at least one of the players lurks here a lot but not using the traditional vampire/werewolf/mage setup, might be using some of the mage stuff as a jumping off point in terms of system rather than background. Currently plan on the players tackling mundane but nasty cases to start with and then hints of supernatural stuff creeping in as we move on.
tl;dr you guys are great, OP has a shit ton of research to do thanks to great anons, OP uses nWoD, system bitching likely ensues.
>>43867187
OP again, good shout, thanks.
Will buy it for the background stuff if nothing else. Currently playing in a SW game and while the system is okay it doesn't quite tickle my giblets in the right place to make me want use it as a GM.
>>43868071
It might be a bit too much supernatural and too little cop, but if you need ideas you might want to check out Grimm.
>>43868138
13th PRECINCT from WoD
>>43868138
>>43868138
No problem, I've actually been considering running that game myself.
Like >>43871705 said, you'll probably find the 13th Precinct (nWoD) really helpful.
You should also take a peek at GURPS Cops if you're really determined - nearly a 100 pages detailing every aspect of police procedure, the court process, and which organization has what jurisdiction over what.
>>43871705
>>43872997
Yup. Have a copy of 13th precinct, it's pretty useful.
>>43851886
Makes me a little bit proud that we designed, built and managed to sell the yanks some police cars.
>>43851886
Just play police quest.jpg or read one of the LPs, that's faster.
It deals with a lot of the paperwork and the basic steps of police work in an already gamefied manner.
Stillwater, Oklahoma here.
We have four police agencies with jurristiction in the city; Payne county sheriff's dept., osu pd, stillwater pd, and oklahoma highway patrol.
OHP patrols the two highways, even in the city though they share jurisdiction.
Sheriffs handle everything rural, mostly the outskirts of town. They also handle the jail.
SPD is general purpose, usually handle the more violent crimes.
OSU PD is technically a state agency, and as such have jurisdiction state wide. They have previously denied records to SPD (But not OHP, another state agency) They only patrol the campus, but will assist if they're close.
There's been a lot of trouble recently, so they're working together more.
Hope that helps.
