https://www.mediafire.com/folder/vx477quhxz4vt/Regend5Ling#btf4cvsidtj6ff
Let's invent a minor clan, /L5R/! We were talking about them before, so why not invent one for fun and dishonorable profit.
Re-requesting 1E books. I think there was a 1E trove?
Reposting from old thread
Need some ideas fellow L5R gms
I have an upcoming event in my campaign - young ambitious mantis pretty boy whose a smooth talker and an honorable man, is going to be competing with Yoritomo for who gets to marry Moshi Wakiza.
I kind of want this to be less a fighting contest, and more a social one.
Plus, I'd like some ideas on how said character might be able to go about getting Amaterasu to back him against Yoritomo as well.
naturally, once Yoritomo figures out hes lost, it might end up in a fight, but that will result in a dead PC - I figure Yoritomo will vow revenge. Also, your probably saying "isn't Yoritomo this PC's daimyo?" And while you would be right, I run the mantis as being somewhat more fractious and independent than most clans - Yoritomo is hoping to iron hand unify all the competing families within it, and then use that as a means to compell the other minor clans to join him, in his whole "make the mantis great again" campaign
>>48233275
The Thunder Dragon would not allow Yoritomo (whatta guy) to lose ever.
>>48233213
Itachi Tracker and Weasel Clan roughs.
http://pastebin.com/DBFBw11s
Itachi Tracker uses a dog, fights cursed/blessed weapon wielders, and is built more to be a utility school that operates well next to Toritaka Bushi and Witch Hunters. Could and should be tweaked more to feature more item-knowledge stuff.
Dogs and kama come from the Kama Itachi Yokai who bark like dogs and slash away at people with kama.
>>48233351
>The Thunder Dragon would not allow Yoritomo (whatta guy) to lose ever.
So, the Thunder Dragon and Amaterasu are competing, using Yoritomo and the PC as their contest pieces ?
>>48233378
How strong is your party that it can even involve a plot dealing with divinely ordained suitors?
>>48233275
A band of experienced samurai who've become tainted in their careers are imprisoned voluntarily in a temple, and decide to break out and make one last glorious run at the shadowlands. The kuni who's been checking up on them every month or so has expressly forbidden it, so they'll have to manage it like a prison escape, including stockpiling some jade tea and fingers. In additon they're going to have to sneak around the wall, as the Crab will find their behavior less that trustworthy, as they won't take risks with tainted non-crabs.
>>48233275
For Social Contest stuff: Wakiza was proud and let fame cloud her mind and forsake her oath to Lady Sun. If she has yet to forsake Lady Sun, Wakiza's family demands that Yoritomo and the PC show their devotion to Lady Sun, Suitengu, and Isora on the coast of Rokugan at dawn.
A proper suitor to the Centipede will know the rituals that need to be performed to Lady Sun, while still appeasing Suitengu (watching the sunrise over the sea, he's part of this) and giving courtesy to Isora (you're on her beach after all).
Yoritomo has advisers who might assist him here in what to do, but if the PC is a faithful or pious man he could impress the divine by having more heart in what it is he is doing.
Wakiza's family has both Yoritomo and the PC race a monk to each of the shrines within the Valley of the Centipede. The Monk has the Centipede Tattoo and easily makes it to each shrine while avoiding stepping on bugs and has ample time to pray. Yoritomo will treat this as a race, he cares about speed and his prayers while acceptable are not devout. If the PC takes his time at each temple he will show Wakiza that he does not take the Fortunes lightly and that what might take him a day on foot rather than an hour is still moving at breakneck speed due to how many fortunes he gives thanks to in a small time in a proper manner. The monk is there to mislead them to the nature of the race.
Yoritomo and the PC must perform a Kitsune Wedding between some Kitsune Samurai and Centipede Samurai so as to show their adherence to tradition, the different cultures that would be taken into the Mantis, and to see how good they are in a wedding situation. Everyone is wearing Kitsune masks, even the peasants present---and they need to have proper etiquette despite being unable to tell who anyone might be.
>>48233402
Less strength, and more "right place, right time"
One of the PC's climbed the mountain of heaven to complete a trial for Bishamonten, and was given his war banner to carry into battle.
Why? Because Hida Kisada is about to betray the oath of his family by letting the shadowlands loose, and the Kami are understandably pissed. Hida is pissed. and thus, the PC's who are committed to stopping this, are being given divine assistance.
In the case of Moshi Wakiza, if a PC can suitably impress Amaterasu, and thus, suitably impress Wakiza, then a marriage will be the outcome of that, while allowing the Centipede to help the PC's modest (but growing) force of heroes.
Also, one thing to mention - I hate AEG's insistence that only their super special signature npc's have cool things happen to them while PC's can only be an audience for metaplot. As such, I allow my PC's to have equally important destinies.
>>48233479
Oooh, these are all pretty good.
Plus, I had read in the Way of the Minor Clans, that Wakiza's mother, as a way to get her daughter interested in a man, has been hosting tournaments and festivals for many young strapping samurai to come and woo the girl. I've been considering adding in a few additional NPC's to make the contest more interesting.
>The Yogo courtier has the most earth of anyone in the party, and they have three bushi
Oh man, this is going to be fun!
>>48233551
Thanks. I tried to make them all things that would frustrate Yoritomo if he lost more than usual. Because of all the hidden conditions that are not given when the challenges are pitched. In the hopes that it'd help him seem far more reasonable when he turns to violence should he lose.
He looks less like a sore loser and more like he feels cheated.
>>48233480
fuck AEG in general. I love L5R, but they ran the metaplot into the goddamn ground.
>>48233648
One of the big aspects I'm going with this, is that Wakiza has a way to flex her ambitious without betraying Lady Sun - and thus, the Centipede don't get cursed in the process.
A big metaplot change, because in my campaign, the Mantis don't subsume a bunch of minor clans to make themselves bigger. Yoritomo no longer has "Great Destiny" - he has "Driven"
However, I do plan on all the relationships between the minor clans to become so strong, that together in alliance, they are stronger then even Yoritomo wanted, and can project even more power then any one major clan can. I feel its the best way for each of the minor clans to keep their culture and autonomy, while still growing into a new age of strength and respect
>>48233480
>Also, one thing to mention - I hate AEG's insistence that only their super special signature npc's have cool things happen to them while PC's can only be an audience for metaplot. As such, I allow my PC's to have equally important destinies.
I normally like my L5R more grounded but this is a cool thing to do, anon. Fuck '90s godlike NPCs and auteur-designers insisting PCs are just spearcarriers.
>>48233757
my PCs are just regular down on their luck magistrates with a snowball's chance in hell, and, they don't like those odds, but if they are going down... they're going down swinging.
I agree with you 100%. Fuck their shit-tier boring ass mary sue NPCs.
>>48233804
>>48233757
My players are always more invested in a campaign\setting, if their actions can make an impact on that setting. I generally run L5R campaigns with player parties being an active part of the main metaplot.
>>48233569
We ready.
>>48233364
Very good start. I would limit the rank 3 just to SAA ( seems to be convention as far as ranks that give SAA). I'll have more CC after I get to a comp.
>>48233840
I'm totally cool with this. You sound like you're doing it right. NPCs (like say Yoritomo) are cool to include, but when you play it like AEG wants you to, where Yoritomo is SOOO COOOL GUYZ, and the PCs are shitstains, it is lame.
>>48233569
One-eye player here - if my character hits something, her target's going to splatter. If my character feints and hits something, splatter across the walls.
Splatter and spend a VP on damage? Splatter across -towns-. Of course, then she'd be dizzy for the next round.
6k3 attack roll, 7k2 katana, +2k1 from Void on damage. I can't eyeball how well she'd do with feints yet.
>>48233364
Okay, I see some problems. The concept, while Niche, feels good. But:
-The first rank's special ability feels to specialized to apply - it wouldn't be remiss to stretch to "Lore:Theology when fighting the inhuman or the wielder of nerunami".
-Second rank is good.
-Third rank is good.
-Fourth rank - maybe give a bonus for the emphasis rather than having the technique not work without the emphasis?
-Honestly, the fifth rank technique just feels like you decided to throw dice at the problem and call it a school. I'm not sure how to work this one, but it feels like something other than just flat buffs is the way to go here - maybe something involving spell resistance and applying it to magical object effects?
-While I get why you wanted the kama, I feel like it potholes the school somewhat between the dog techniques and the nerunami niche it feels like the minor clan would be very one note. Maybe change it to peasant weapons as opposed to the Kama and make the school grant "any one weapon skill" instead of knives since your school's outfit lists any one weapon?
Overall, incredibly niche but a good start. You could maybe stretch it to curses in general while keeping with the same themes? The dog is a pretty neat touch, and while the Kama does relate to the clan name keep in mind the player needs flexibility to try a few builds. Maybe the Kama could be integrated into the clan symbol?
>>48233905
My IR 1 ichiro bushi who rolls 10k2 for damage scoffs at a mere 7k2.
>>48234002
Considering this is my 2nd L5R character ever, I'm okay with 9k3 damage!
reminder
7k2: avg ~21.4
10k2: avg 24
9k3: avg ~30.9
>>48233213
About minor clans... what's out there on the Kitsune?
>>48233569
>Party gets into a flex off
>The courtier wins
>>48234078
They have rules in the core book (4e)
>>48234114
forgot to mention: minor clan kitsune family has +1 willpower.
>>48233967
I'll stretch the first rank to make it more versatile. I'll change the Kama to being Peasant Weapons in general.
Fourth Rank: Maybe allow for the Itachi Tracker to blow a Void Point to make it a contested roll against their Lore: Elements/Lore: Theology for the spell to hit them?
Fifth Rank: Yeah, phoned it in. I think I was looking at a Phoenix technique and trying to apply it. Maybe something like this:
Rank 5: Fracturing the Tie
The last lesson an Itachi Tracker must learn is how to destroy a numenerai should it fall into the wrong hands or be of a profane nature. When fighting an individual with a cursed or blessed item, you and your hound gain a +1k0 bonus to all attack rolls or +0k1 to all damage rolls made against any cursed or blessed enemy or spiritual entity. If you successfully perform a Disarm Maneuver or strike an unheld numenerai you may expend all your Void Points (a minimum of one point must be spent) to destroy the spiritual tie to the item and render it inert and shattered. If the item has the Unbreakable quality, the item now becomes breakable and any further magical enhancements become inert for a number of days equal to your Earth Ring. Performing this technique renders you unable to recover Void Points for one week.
Based off the Kaiu 5th rank advantage and hits the Anti-Magic deal pretty well while still giving a flat bonus. It's certainly something that'd make them be controversial as a school but still useful to bring in due to their niche specialization.
>>48234141
Fixing typos.
Rank 5: Fracturing the Tie
The last lesson an Itachi Tracker must learn is how to destroy a numenerai should it fall into the wrong hands or be of a profane nature. You and your dog gain a +1k0 bonus to all attack rolls or +0k1 to all damage rolls made against any cursed or blessed enemy or spiritual entity. If you successfully perform a Disarm Maneuver or strike an unheld numenerai you may expend all your Void Points (a minimum of one point must be spent) to destroy the spiritual tie to the item and render it inert and shattered. If the item has the Unbreakable quality, the item now becomes breakable and any further magical enhancements become inert for a number of days equal to your Earth Ring. Performing this technique renders you unable to recover Void Points for one week.
>>48234098
That literally happened last session. The old Crab in the Severed Hand was impressed by the young Yasuki who saved his aunt by brutally killing two bandits. The Yasuki flexed and rolled a 61--so the Old Crab is offering to get him trained in Kobo Ichi-Kai.
>>48234200
probably should award him with emphasis (flexing) for free.
>>48234098
Nitpick, muscles would probably be under Water ring.
>>48234039
Its a gimmicky build for the fun of "crit fishing". The more optimal build would be going for the One, with which I would be rolling 5k4. But the ichiro is known more for being able to use "rumble" as a verb to describe his movement.
>>48233480
>Also, one thing to mention - I hate AEG's insistence that only their super special signature npc's have cool things happen to them while PC's can only be an audience for metaplot. As such, I allow my PC's to have equally important destinies.
They got over this a lot in 4e. All the books that have heavy setting plot in them (mostly IH) have material to figure out high or low scale games pretty easily. That shit was maxed out in earlier editions because this game was so fucking 90s it hurt.
>>48234200
http://pastebin.com/DBFBw11s
Updated Rank 1, 4, and 5.
Thanks for the looking at so far.
Might stretch it to curses in general, it's all very WIP. As for the dog, I was kind of surprised that only the Unicorn had a dog school and it was advanced. So making it a small school that uses a very basic dog more for intended tracking purposes (the dog isn't buffed to be a War Dog by any means) seemed right. Kama being part of the Clan Symbol seems appropriate. Might change its founding lore to hit up the 7 foxes, 8 Tanuki, 9 Weasels thing the Itachi yokai has going.
Perhaps still founded by a Bayushi Jade Magistrate, with his first followers being a Kistune wife and her six relatives, eight "Tanuki" Clan samurai who wandered out of the Shinomen Mori to assist them in the construction of their archives, and the nine sons his first wife bore him (the 9 Weasels). Make the reversal of fortunes for poor Bayushi Itachi to be in full effect; he gets a wife and her relatives to join him, mysterious forest mystics who assist him in construction, and many healthy, happy children. Which is a nice shift from manlet "cursed for being a triplet and cursed by Sakkaku" magistrate.
>>48234417
>Pursuit of Mystery technique gives you a dog
Itachi Shagi and his faithful companion Scubi-do are on the case, huh?
>>48234478
With their partners Isawa Biruma, Kaiu Fureddi and Doji Dafune.
>>48234478
>>48234507
rokugan your way
>>48234478
>>48234507
It bothers me how I didn't consider this until now. I was really aiming for more of a Yokai-related theme because I got those neat Matthew Mercer illustrated books. But yes, I can totally see it going that way if you let it.
>>48234528
Funny. I was certain the technique's name was a deliberate reference.
>>48233480
>I hate AEG's insistence that only their super special signature npc's have cool things happen to them while PC's can only be an audience for metaplot
Yeah ... Nah. That ain't a thing.
>>48233213
That lady has absurdly large boobs.
>>48234580
The fates have aligned for this to occur, I'm not against the stupid fun that can come from it. Perhaps I'm just tired enough that my subconscious was taking over, but it wasn't intentionally.
Was mainly chosen because the "scythe weasel" yokai is known to bark like a dog and I figured "dog that can track/sniff out curses and the supernatural" was a neat feature that really plays more into what people believe about animals and the supernatural than any truth of it.
Bumpo.
Am I the only one here who actually likes the current balance of Ronin?
>>48235844
No, but the vocal ones generally aren't the content ones.
>>48233905
>>48234002
What's the relevant build information for both of these impressive rolls? Post character sheets.
>>48236431
Looking at it again, the badger is pretty simple: Strength 4, the large trait, and a Dai Tsuchi gets you to 10k2. You'll get better expected value out of a tetsubo though.
For the katana, either strength 4, or strength three and 3 in kenjutsu, which matches the attack roll as well.
Nevermind, figured it out.
>>48236849
With the extra void damage coming from the "Touch of the Void Disadvantage."
>>48236431
Here's something for you, though it requires some money shuffling/ convincing your GM to let you take a No-Dachi instead of a heavy weapon or pole-arm.
Matsu Family, Matsu Berserker School. Strength is at 4. Take the Large Advantage. Boost Kenjutsu to 3. When using a No-Dachi, you swing with an attack roll of 6k3 for 9k3+6 damage every attack. (Base damage 3k3, +4k0 for strength, + 1ko for large weapon, +1k0 for kenjutsu mastery bonus, +6 from rounded down matsu honor bonus).
>>48237085
Lion Paragon at rank 3 to double your honour rank for the duration of a skirmish. Strength in Purity Kata to roll [honour] dice on one damage roll per turn.
Alternatively, Daigotsu bushi / Colonial Conqueror to hit once, then double the damage result.
>>48236431
One-Eye here, replying anyway because courteous!
Okay, Bayushi Bushi + Bayushi Family gives me Reflexes 3 Intelligence 3, and therefore Fire 3. Kenjutsu is at 3.
Strength is 2; I get 4k2 from Sacred Weapon Shosuro Blade, and then +1k0 from Kenjutsu 3.
So my attack is Agi 3 + Kenjutsu 3, 6k3, and my damage roll is 7k2, or 9k3 if i spend a void point, because Touch of the Void makes it 2k1 instead of 1k1.
>>48237667
Tangent, but Bayushi Bushi, Soshi family is my favourite Sage monkey.
>>48237667
Correction- AGILITY 3
>>48233213
Who is this glorious Asian muscle babe and in what game can I fuck her?
Optimization for L5R is highly reliant on how many people you can expect to back you up, which dictates how specialized you can become. Challenge: Select the cheesiest schools for a 2, 3, and 4 person party.
2: Toku Bushi (Fighting and Investigating, all rounding), Isawa Shugenja with high Air ring and Affinity (Casting and Talking).
3: Kakita Bushi with high Air Ring (Talk, duel, shoot), Isawa Shugenja with Fire Affinity and Sage (Casting, Knowing Things, Blasting), Daidoji Iron Warrior (Fighting, Keeping the other two alive).
4: Doji Courtier with high air (Talk and shoot!), Isawa Shugenja with Fire Affinity and Sage (Cast and Know things!), Hida Bushi with grappling and heavy weapon emphasis (For fighting!), Kakita Bushi with high Void and Reflexes (It's time to... d-d-d-d-d-duel!)
>>48237957
Its really not hard for players, with half a braincell, to look through the rules available and make powerful PC's.
I actually tend to enforce the idea that players make characters with unique aspects to them, and that they don't step on anyones toes. For instance, if someone makes a character thats all about leading armies on the mass battle table, I make sure no one else makes the same concept.
Closed campaign roles work wonders that way. First come, first serve
>>48238031
Feel free to interpret the challenge as not being about optimization, but about finding schools which for 2, 3 or 4 people don't overlap too much on each other's domains while covering most standard activities. Bonus for being thematically appropriate!
For an Emerald Magistrates Game:
2: Kasuga Smuggler (Talk and Investigate!), Soshi Magistrate (Scare and Fight). With the full pockets, smooth smile and keen eyes of the Tortoise and the angry, scary beatings of the Scorpion, it's a Rokugan buddy cop movie.
>>48238153
>but about finding schools which for 2, 3 or 4 people don't overlap too much on each other's domains while covering most standard activities. Bonus for being thematically appropriate!
I have a 6 player party right now
>Crane, Daidoji, Multiple Schools (Daidoji + Lion Elite Spear)(Built for Tank Spear Fighting)
>Lion, Akodo Bushi (Built for leading armies)
>Crab, Hida Bushi (Built for Heavy Damage Anti-Armor)(Wears Bulletproof Armor)
>Mirumoto Bushi, Emerald Magistrate (Built for mystical shit and investigation)
>Mantis Bushi (built for sailing ships and being a negotiator, woo'er of pretty ladies)
>Musket Ronin (only one in the party who can speak gaijin languages, is a vaticine convert, knows explosives, how to use cannons, and is a sniper)
Other then "some of these characters use a sword" there is no overlap. The Crab and the Daidoji are similar, but different enough that they don't feel the same.
>Daidoji is built to duel opposing named NPCs with his spear, by going first and being precise
>Crab is built to kill anything dead flat in roughly one hit, regardless of armor, weapon, tactics, or how many wounds they have
>>48238153
3. Kasuga Smuggler (Talk and Investigate), Ichiro Bushi (Grapple and Smash), Kitsune Shugenja (Cast, maximum spirit talking, not too squishy). This all minor clans trio is very well suited to finding things out while playing a bit loose with the rules, who needs to know how we found out so long as we have the testimony and evidence at the end, eh? (Tortoise for Underworld Connections, Badger for brute force, Fox for magic evidence).
>>48238261
Just noticed something fucky looking at rules for Badger. Their lore emphasizes that they love heavy weapons, but they don't get simple attacks with any of them, just samurai weapons and unarmed attacks. From henceforth I will houserule the shit out of that.
Which is the better Unicorn shugenja?
>>48238373
Yep. Their lore says they don't carry a katana around, either. Bugs me when I ask a GM about playing Badger by lore, and they think I'm trying to munchkin l5r.
>>48238786
>Their lore says they don't carry a katana around
Something that bothered me about the Wasp\Tsuruchi
Can't we just have a Family\Clan that focuses on Archery WITHOUT having to have them completly shit on samurai traditions?
Oh right, its AEG\John Wick\L5R, where if you not using your katana all the time, you are literally the worst samurai ever and your ancestors hate you to death
>>48233213
>Let's make a minor clan!
Okay - give me 1d10 for the origin for the founder.
>>48238799
1. You can always distance yourself from the tradition.
2. Play another clan / family samurai taught by the Tsuruchi.
3. Use one of the slightly less capable archery paths/schools. They're not all shit.
4. Fucking make something new.
>>48238938
Your implying that I don't run the Wasp differently in my own campaigns, and that I don't remove the whole "katana is the only weapon for the samurai" nonsense.
>They're not all shit
Thats not even what I'm talking about. My issue is with the written clan culture, not whether or not schools have good techniques or whatever.
>>48238987
>Your implying
No implications.
I'm using the default assumptions - base setting. If you don't clear that up first, it's not my problem.
>My issue is with the written clan culture, not whether or not schools have good techniques
Other clans have archery, plus traditions and culture thereof. They're not all shit.
>>48233213
Got bored and made a slightly less boobalicious version of this.
>>48239022
>Other clans have archery, plus traditions and culture thereof.
Like who?
If you mean "clans that have kyujutsu as part of their skill curriculum" that doesn't count.
If you mean "clans that get a bow and 20 arrows as part of their starting outfit" that also doesn't count.
>They're not all shit
Which ones?
Because if you mean anything Unicorn, gotta disagree with you. Shinjo Bushi school is shit. Yomanri Horse Archer is a rank 4 path.
Asahina archer is also a rank 4 path.
Dragons wind is also a rank 4 path.
In any case, its irrelevant because I dont play 4th edition, I dont run 4th edition, and likely will never do either. My issue is a setting issue, because not only is the only archer focused school written from a perspective of being completely disdainful toward samurai culture, but that this is just a symptom of wickian writing where the katana is the only weapon that means anything, and using any other weapon is frowned upon. Thus if your culture is focused on another weapon, it becomes mutually exclusive. (which also isnt true at all considering the Daidoji have a spear focus, and the Crab have a tetsubo focus - both of which still have daisho, and don't break swords because of contrived reasons)
>>48239110
Akoko are fantastic archers with fleshcutters thanks to their rank 1.
>>48239212
In 1st Edition yes, and I'm surprised I never noticed that before.
In 4th Edition, kinda, because the armored target still gets reduction. Also, the Akodo Bushi doesn't get any arrows with their bow, assuming they choose one.
>>48239275
>because the armored target still gets reduction.
Just like they do against every single other archer in the game other than what, the Hiruma Snipers?
>>48239311
And daidoji sluts
>>48239717
Scouts. Fuck you tiny keyboard and autocorrect. Though maybe slutty daidooji can ignore reduction too. Who knows
>>48236849
The badger is far from optimal (10k2 vrs 8k3 vrs 5k4), but I wasn't trying to optimize to begin with, just have fun with crit fishing.
Years ago, I ran a Western-style fantasy campaign where a PC rogue needlessly murdered a guard he was interrogating. I chose not to admonish the action during
play and didn’t even say anything about it over the next few weeks. But as the story threads were coming to a close and the city was burning from an internal riot, enemies of the rogue PC pulled him into an alley
during the chaos.
The character was never heard from again. The player asked me what happened to his character. I told him, “You don’t know.” Needless to say, he wasn’t happy.
>>48240130
Well, did he have to pass a roll not to get taken?
>>48240130
Hello anonymous 4e writer quote.
>>48237085
One of my favorites is to take a Yoritomo Bushi, specialize in kenjutsu, and take Froend of the Elements (Water). This build is ideal for higher level PC's, but it's still plenty of fun at r2. Knock downs for days, baby.
>>48240238
>>48240130
Is this actually a Wick quote?
>>48240615
No. It's 4e core.
>>48240864
We have no idea who wrote it?
>>48240921
There's a page of credits, no? We have some idea.
I hope that if fantasy flight releases an rpg it doesn't ditch the roll'n keep mechanic. And makes ronin more viable. Genreally they should just ask fans what they want.
>>48241580
>Genreally they should just ask fans what they want
Because fans are unified and reasonable in their wants.
>>48238875
noone gives a shit, fuck off
>>48241625
That was over five hours ago, I doubt the person who posted that is even still here.
>>48241604
well, I bet there's stuff a lot of people would agree on. I don't think anyone wants the spider to be a great clan.
>>48241580
Ronin are supposed to be shit. The whole point is that they don't have access to the thousand years of knowledge and training that the other clans do. It fits the thematics of the setting.
Making ronin better would make playing an all-ronin party kind of drab. Why the fuck would anyone expect a shitty, unwanted, barely even human, learned how to fight by hitting trees and maybe murdering bandits sometimes, ronin to go toe to toe with a fully clan samurai who has been instructed by the best of the best his or her whole life?
It would literally ruin the setting. It would fly in the face of simulationist practicality and fly in the face of the narrative. All for what reason? So people who play ronin could *cheapen* their accomplishments by having an easier time?
>>48241689
>The whole point is that they don't have access to the thousand years of knowledge and training that the other clans do.
It is not like Kakita (or Matsu... or Mirumoto... or literally everyone from the Dawn of Empire) spent his whole life with kung-fu training in a dojo. He came out of the forest as an absolute nobody, and you can see how far he got.
>>48241862
Yes, he got really far competing against other people who had similar experience. No one, from Matsu to Isawa had a Great Clan's dojo to train in.
>>48241941
Dude literally created the techniques taught in those dojos. He just came out of the forest, beat some duded, became the emperor's champ, and now thousands of people venerate his style... a style he acquired by chopping down some trees while being ridiculed by a kenku.
Or, if you want to really go there, then we can say that a simple ashigaru can go toe-to-toe with a samurai. There isn't THAT much of a difference between the two as far as mechanics go. School Techniques aren't really sweet until SAA kicks in.
>>48242092
style, yes. specific techniques, no.
>>48239110
Akodo- best archers in the early game, still solid into the late. Always shoot fleshcutters, always ignore armor TN, always kill shit, and still great in melee, because... Akodo.
>>48242092
except this is totally accurate and samurai are killed by ashigaru all the time, which is exactly why the clans use ashigaru in the first place...
>>48242092
also of note: kakita was trained by a kenku.
>>48242174
1 ashigaru vs 1 samurai is no match (barring exceptional circumstances). It's only when you're fielding an army of ashigaru, the odds are much higher that a samurai would die.
Same goes for non-classically trained ronin. They're just going to be worse than a clan samurai. Of course, a decent chunk of ronin are actually clan samurai who became ronin at a later time, so they will have their school techniques.
>>48242118
He actually developed the specific techniques up to Rank 3 (as everyone else from Matsu to Mirumoto).
>>48242178
As far as I'm aware, the kenku just coached Kakita but did not train him.
>>48242242
>He actually developed the specific techniques up to Rank 3 (as everyone else from Matsu to Mirumoto).
1. burden of proof
2. explicily before he became an emerald magistrate?
>As far as I'm aware, the kenku just coached Kakita but did not train him.
Yes, that is certainly what a mythological swordmaster spirit would do. It would only impart wisdom that isn't relevant to a swordsman training his swordsmanship for a sword fight tournament. Even if it were canon that the kenku did not formally train Kakita, it still plays into the trope of Mr Miyagi style training (I don't have another name for it).
>>48242178
>Kakita was trained by a kenku
>Mirumoto was just some guy who was good at swords.
And they still managed to be evenly matched. That must have smarted for Kakita.
I'm curious now, though; Kakita invents the first katana in the year 19, by which point Mirumoto and innumerable others had already been famed swordsmen for decades-- Mirumoto became Togashi's yojimbo in the year 5, for example. So what were they all using before Kakita's big invention? Straight swords? Curved I-can't-believe-it's-not-a-katanas?
>>48242342
Honestly, L5R should have tachi, uchigatana and tsurugi all over the place.
>>48242342
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachi
Tachi came before katana, at least in real life.
>>48242365
>>48242379
How would you stat them? Same as a Wakizashi, maybe without the throwability?
>>48242446
Katana without the katana void boost.
>>48242300
>1. burden of proof
Imperial Histories and Imperial Archives.
2. explicily before he became an emerald magistrate?
His stats in Imperial Archives are supposed to represent him at his entry to the Emerald Championship.
>>48242342
They used straight swords. Matsu wields one of those swords on most pieces of art about her.
>>48242446
Tsurugi should be nasty fuckoff blades. You shouldn't be able to do iaijutsu with them but they shouldn't be worse than katana.
For such a weeb game, it's strange that they're missing. Kusanagi itself is one, and that's definitely a legendary weapon (one of the three Imperial Treasures of Japan that each newly enthroned Emperor supposedly goes to see in the hidden parts of the ceremony)
>>48242474
I could only find this.
>>48239064
why?
>>48242680
Read the Pre-Kami Era and First 50 Years entries in 'New Mechanics'.
>>48242239
oh, yeah, in a 1 v 1 the difference in equipment quality alone will cause the samurai to win most times against a ronin or ashigaru, definitely. Not even bringing training and experience into it. I did not intend to suggest otherwise. But, even in a 1 on 1, explosions happen, and many a foolhardy samurai has been taken down by a scared peasant with a knife or a junk cudgel. Its just not at all likely.
>>48242812
this seems about right to me. All of the kami's schools are rank 3 and a few exceptional families have a rank 3 school. Kakita was trained by a sword crow, Matsu was a member of a large warmongering tribe which probably had a rank 2, and then the Utaku are in a similar boat.
Poor fucking Crab, though.
>>48241862
>It is not like Kakita (or Matsu... or Mirumoto... or literally everyone from the Dawn of Empire) spent his whole life with kung-fu training in a dojo
If you're using ronin techniques, you're not on their level.
>>48243029
Also I'd like to add that the Matsu school in particular doesn't make a lick of fucking sense in this context. Why does Matsu "doesn't bow to the dumpstered losers" "Literally a bandit before Akodo" "Look at my ass and I'll put my sword in yours" have a school based on honor? I mean, after some time it makes sense that her descendants would change significantly from the way Matsu herself was... but Matsu had to have been like honor 4 at best.
>>48242699
Because the fashion of Rokugan doesn't encourage so much bare skin, and it was an easy edit to do so I could add it to my NPC library.
I saw an old monk,
B ack bent, stagger out the gate
U nder his great load--
M outh curved like a bow, his smile
P ierced age like a ray of youth.
Haiku is the most common kind of poetry in Rokugan, right? But it evolved from the tanka. Is any clan known for practicing the older form?
>>48233227
Anyone?
4e thoughts:
Am I a bad person for wanting to be a kakita with yumis houseruled to be a samurai weapon for the SAA?
Because I like the zen archer feel of sitting in Center stance taking shots at dudes.
>>48245644
SAA with ranged weapons is a little nuts, and I wouldn't give it to a school that wasn't primarily about archery. Make it a path that replaces Kakita Bushi 4 and then maybe.
Bambu
Throwing in some more weapon stuff to go with last thread's armor diagrams.
>>48248373
>>48248456
>>48248456
God, I know its a weaboo thing, but Japanese swords have always looked sexy.
>>48248611
>>48248611
They do have a strange elegance to them that sabres seem to lack
Superior western design incoming.
>>48243206
See the notes about honor in the fall of the Kami era.
Matsu was always about courage and pride. Which are some of the cornerstones of honor.
Also, her attitude shifted a bit around Akodo, who was one of the two individuals who decided what honor means in Rokugan.
So I'm thinking of putting together a Togashi Dynasty game set during the 6th Century and the Heresy of the Five Rings. The Wounded Emperor believes in Gorrino's preachings and puts forth the edict that the Scorpion and the Crane will be merged into the Hawk.
A move that nobody is really happy about. Dissidents from within the fledgling faction will find an alliance forming with Lion Samurai who have grown to distrust their immortal Emperor. Essentially creating the Ikko-Ikki.
Thinking I might allow guns to be a rare thing that the Lion Clan use in this alternate setting, as they are all about human ingenuity and heroism and gaijin powder is not clearly not something truly "gaijin" because the Mantis can bring it through the Dragon's Veil with incident, and while it has no kami attached to it, it is not one with the kansen. It simply is. Another riddle, one the Lion choose to fathom and decipher and that the Wounded Emperor reluctantly allows due to him viewing this as an attempt for the Lion to accept the puzzling nature of the rest of reality.
The Crab on the Wall have Nezumi allies and are making routes into the Shadowlands. The non-genocided Kitsu don't have Tsuno issues to worry about, but they're still on horrible terms with the Lion due to their pro-Humanity slant. Hantei Horito is plagued by something from the Shinomen Mori and his dear brother Hantei Jama has embraced forbidden techniques to save the man. The Phoenix are sitting pretty with the Dragon so they don't have to worry about anything; and the Hawk is tearing itself apart as it attempts to form.
Togashi's Dynasty has Scorpions who knowingly side with the Darkness to be better at their jobs and the Crane are more about wandering heroes due to the lack of political emphasis going on in the pious Empire. The Hawk is, as an organization, not happy with its existence because there was no notable imbalance to the world as they could see it.
Anyone ever run Togashi's Dynasty/Heresy Era before?
So I'm looking at the various expansion books to 4e, and I happen across Yamato No Orochi. I'm looking at its stats-notably the wounds, and thinking "How are L5R characters expected to fight this?"
Don't get me wrong- trying sounds fun as all hell.
This is all due to my inexperience with the system- I don't really have context for what a 'starting character' should be dealing with, and I am very aware Orochi here is at the very high end.
So, kind thread, what does 'Starting' L5R look like, and how does it progress to 'Slay mythologies'?
>>48252635
Starting bad guys should maybe possess a technique. Really you're dealing with goblins, bandits, ronin and lesser ghosts/spirits at the start and getting to weirder things the further in you get.
Check out Legacy of Disaster, the free RPG Day adventure; it does a good job of escalating from goblins to bandits to a ghost.
>>48252635
Guile, I imagine. That, or high-level ones.
My experience so far has been zombies with 70+ wounds and 4k2 attack rolls.
>>48243206
Well, there are no rules for "Matsu's Bushido" to represent what the Matsu believe in, so they were stuck with the "big" Bushido.
If a player plays a Matsu correctly, he will end up at Honor 1-2 anyway.
>>48253608
>If a player plays a Matsu correctly, he will end up at Honor 1-2 anyway.
Extremely warlike but also not an ill mannered needlessly cruel brute? I dunno, seems legit.
>>48253608
> Honour primarily reflects how an individual samurai rates his personal ability to share to the tenets of Bushido and fulfill the duties assigned to him by his lord.
Remember, Honour 10 is 'every action exhibits virtue'. Honour 6-7 sometimes deviates into pragmatic conduct, otherwise they would be higher yet.
Matsu follow Bushido as it exists.
Compassion - military protection for commoners is the default 'doing a good job' answer.
Courage - are you questioning their courage?
Courtesy - well, 6/7 still won't ding you to 2.0.
Duty - yep.
Honesty - sure.
Honour - done.
Sincerity - no problem.
So where's the 'correct' Matsu slipping up?
>>48253850
>>48253898
It is more like they will end up with lots of contradicting scenarios because of their hard-on for Courage and Duty. Especially Duty.
Then they will have a little attrition from Compassion (protecting the commoners is the samurai's DUTY - Compassion is about actively helping them), Courtesy (showing off his strength and bragging, two severe violations of Courtesy), and Honor (ignorance fueled by his over-inflated pride).
I don't say that the Matsu will drop to Honor 2 overnight, but in the long run, it is inevitable. Unless the character takes the Matsu Tsuko route and becomes this passive-aggressive jerk who only contributes to the story when she must.
>>48254641
Showing off and bragging isn't anathema to Courtesy. It's practically expected, especially when it's done to venerate ancestors and your family, clan, and/or school.
Unless you're belittling other people for doing it. That's not very courteous.
>>48254641
>Then they will have a little attrition from Compassion (protecting the commoners is the samurai's DUTY - Compassion is about actively helping them)
Not by the standards of Rokugani samurai. Core 42.
Hopes and dreams for the fantasy flight card game? Hopes and dreams for the fantasy flight funky dice rpg that follows?
>>48257042
I hope they keep dishonour.
I hope it actually ever comes out.
>>48254678
>Showing off and bragging isn't anathema to Courtesy.
It isn't, it is just kinda making a joke out of it (like how the On makes a joke out of Honesty). You aren't supposed to smear your shit into others' faces no matter how glorious it might be. 'A samurai doesn't need to prove his strength' as Akodo wrote in Leadership.
>>48254933
The standard of Rokugani samurai is Honor 3-4, and most of them have problems with even that level.
>>48254641
>(showing off his strength and bragging, two severe violations of Courtesy)
I'm trying to remember if this was from Sword and Fan or Imperial Archives, but there's a whole segment of it that talks about how expected bragging is socially. If it is an expected and welcome thing, it isn't really violating courtesy.
>>48257672
I think it depends on how you brag, and in what contexts.
If one samurai goes "I did this cool thing, aren't I awesome!" and the next one goes "That's something alright, but check out this even cooler thing I did!", that's one thing.
But if the second one goes "Hah, you and your accomplishments are shit, look at what I did," that's starting to be discourteous.
>>48257644
>You aren't supposed to smear your shit into others' faces no matter how glorious it might be
There's a difference between shit smearing and talking up your latest accomplishment.
>The standard of Rokugani samurai is Honor 3-4, and most of them have problems with even that level.
4-5, or 'What Is Expected'.
Not bullying or abusing the lower castes goes a long way to maintaining a higher average honour, so long as you perform your duties and keep them safe and productive.
>>48257672
>If it is an expected and welcome thing, it isn't really violating courtesy.
Just like how the On is expected but violates Honesty (probably Courage and Sincerity too).
>>48257941
>There's a difference between shit smearing and talking up your latest accomplishment.
"Talking up" IS shit smearing. You talk ABOUT your accomplishments, and only if asked. Otherwise, you just fly into a straight "Nobody cares, stop wasting our time!"... or even worse, a "How does it concern us?" In both cases, you could have done something more useful than wasting your lips muscles.
>4-5, or 'What Is Expected'.
Well, Honor 4 should be the mean average, and I would say Honor 3 (approaching the average from below) should be more common than Honor 5 (pushing above the average).
>Not bullying or abusing the lower castes goes a long way to maintaining a higher average honour, so long as you perform your duties and keep them safe and productive.
Yeah, as you said, this is still a thing of Duty and not Compassion. Compassion, as a virtue, demands active contribution (as written). Not being cruel with the commoners is actually a thing for Courtesy.
>>48258203
>"Talking up" IS shit smearing
Sad to hear you think that way.
>Compassion, as a virtue, demands active contribution (as written)
Yes. Active defence, by killing those who would plague the peasants.
>Not being cruel with the commoners is actually a thing for Courtesy.
You keep saying, 'no, that is this, and this is that' ... but all I've done is reference the core book entry for compassion.
I think I'll stick with Rokugan's written interpretations over yours, anon.
>>48258450
>but all I've done is reference the core book entry for compassion.
I dunno what entry you are referencing, but I have this under Compassion:
>He (the samurai) helps his fellow men at every opportunity. If an opportunity does not arise, he goes out of his way to find one.
What you are referring is Courtesy:
>Samurai have no reason to be cruel. They do not need to prove their strength.
And what you are saying is the "nominal" samurai Compassion is in fact the samurai's Duty:
>A Samurai is intensely loyal to those in his care.
It isn't really up to "interpretation". It is as it is written in Leadership. You can twist it either way, but then don't wonder when you can't go above Honor 4 (or 5 if you are lucky).
>>48258962
>>48258450
You're both right, you know. It's just that the language in the book doesn't clarify sufficiently (in that both of your *interpretations* are equally valid). Which is yet another reason why it's so goddamn important to TALK to your GM prior to the campaign and figure out exactly what thier interpretation of the Honor rules actually is.
>>48259876
I got a feeling these are the sorts of things an Akodo and a Doji talk about while drinking tea and painting cherry trees.
>>48259876
We are both right because there is a difference between Bushido-as-written and Bushido-as-used in Rokugan. Akodo would only consider Honor 10 as 'truly honorable' and everything else as 'varying levels of dishonorable' or just 'weak honor'. Of course, the conformist society of Rokugan is incompatible with these extreme standards, so Bushido was projected to your average Honor 4 dude and they called it a day.
If you ask a Honor 4 samurai why he doesn't have Honor 10, then he obviously won't tell you that because he is a shit person. He will point at someone else and say "he said it is okay and I'm cool". The other guy will then point to someone else, and the line will end somewhere around Doji... who is not Akodo.
It is, like, this whole perception-over-truth thing everyone in Rokugan has a hard-on for. Only that with Honor, you can't get away with this kind of self-deception (see: samurai drama).
>>48260047
It sounds like an interesting in-universe play:
>The two children of a minor clan daimyo are inducted into the Akodo and Kakita bushi schools as favours
>A few scenes focusing on both and how they grow as samurai
>Years later, the daimyo dies and the two children return as the eldest brother leads the clan - the eldest is accused of being disrespectful to peasants in some manner the Crane and Lion would be divided on
>The two sides discuss not only how to lead, but what is and isn't honourable, before deciding whether to support or act against their brother
>Depending on the current playwright/troupe/location, the play could swing in multiple ways
>>48237842
ukiyo no shishi AKA way of the samurai 5
I need some plot hooks. I'm totally out of plot hooks.
>>48262705
http://www.kazenoshiro.com/challenge-focus-strike/
Like so
>>48262762
Weird. Is there a reason CFS volumes 4-9 only link to volume 9?
>>48243242
>Because the fashion of Rokugan doesn't encourage so much bare skin
>Artwork of Scorpion and Crane girls with their kimonos showing off their shoulders and cleavage
>Shirtless Dragon monks
>Hida warriors wearing a breastplate and nothing underneath
>>48262844
>Artwork of Scorpion and Crane girls with their kimonos showing off their shoulders and cleavage
GENZOMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN
>>48262844
> falling for the artist's imagining of Rokugan
>>48262844
>Crane and Scorpion shoulders
GENZOMAAAAAAAAAN
>Dragon monks
The more exposed a tattoo is, the more power it has. Also, it's hard to sit under a waterfall while wearing a shirt, and monks are basically immune to cultural norms anyway.
>Hida wearing nothing but armor
The fluff has them wearing nothing but loincloths sometimes. But if they're wearing armor, they're wearing the full armor, including the padded undersuit. Artists hear "Big strong berserkers with a crab motiff" and think "Pop culture Conan with slanty eyes and a spike motiff"
Speaking of shoulders, I've noticed that almost every Yasuki has exposed shoulders, even if they've got otherwise modest clothes on with minimal cleavage.
Is this a Thing, or is it just coincidence that their art always has the shoulder's showing?
>>48263003
It's probably a coincidence, similar to how the art showed the Hida as the no shirt family, while the Hiruma were the no pants family.
>>48262979
>GENZOMAAAAAAAAAN
Yes, child?
>>48263133
>kimono apparently glued to her legs and crotch
>debating with some stick-armed scorpion bushi who is in court in full armor for some fucking reason.
GENZOMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!!!
>>48263157
The scorpion could be a yojimbo, guard, or be in court to represent a specific military unit.
>>48263318
Then why the fuck is a crane debating with him? What idiot courtier lets his god damn yojimbo get into a word fight with a crane? Where the fuck is this bushi's fucking leash holder? Further what the fuck is up with his belt? What IS that? What's worse is that he doesn't even have a proper belt to even put a sword, despite being in full armor. What does he expect to defend his charge with? Could he even spot a threat with his tiny fucking eyes?
I hate genzoman so much.
>>48263355
But, thighs.
>>48263388
genzoman pls go
>>48263417
I go, back to get more Cranes.
>>48263449
>has to hold saya because only place to put it is in cleavage
>kimono sewn into skin else shoulder armor would drag it out of place
>no wounds on either duelist. crane either refusing to bow before a duel (typical), or blade so dull it didn't leave a mark
>apparently standing on the edge of the highest cliff in rokugan
>seagulls for some reason.
>>48263521
And then bam, ninja.
>>48263539
i hate everything about this. especially that photoshop effect background
i hate you.
>>48263555
Don't hate me, anon-san.
Genzoman isn't that bad. He just doesn't fit L5R at all.
>>48263714
He doesn't. But, ZR shugenja.
>>48263714
>He just doesn't fit L5R at all.
I do think it'd be funny to make a fake alternate setting publication about how to run a game in the Genzoman version of Rokugan.
>>48263750
Dangerous Beauty free for everyone?
>>48263779
Dangerous Beauty is mandatory.
The more awful fashion over function choices you can describe on your character at any given moment the more free raises you get on a roll.
What is the stronger Ronin rank 1 technique? The Forest killers or Tessen?
>>48264274
Forest killers, probably... but it depends on a few factors.
Forest killers is better for a basic katana fighting style. It rewards investment into earth and gives agi (assuming you're getting school bonus at creation). Of the ronin R1s, it's certainly the most solid. However...
Tessen is good if you want to be hard to hit AND you don't mind sinking most (if not all) of your XP into combat. Tessen need to invest into War Fans (not the best offensive weapon at 0k1) to make use of their ability. Ideally you'd merely be using the fan in the offhand and using a real weapon primarily. Katana/Fan is probably your go-to option. The drawback is you're taking a -5 to your attack rolls, and in return you get War Fan rank + Insight Rank to your armor TN... which late-game is rather interesting. At IR 3 with War Fans at 5 you'll have +9 ATN (3 from dual wield, 5 from Tessen, 1 from War Fan mastery), and +5 additional if you make it to rank 7 in fans. Fans are, of course, a totally garbage weapon, and you can not do respectable damage with them alone. So you'll be split into investing into a primary weapon skill as well, and you'll need higher than average agi to make up for your deficit, all of which is an XP sink that doesn't yield efficient IR climbing.
So unless you plan on going super late game, go forest killers.
Sworn enemy (kharmic) and oni, neat idea or neatest idea?
>>48263157
Women are for decoration. I support any artwork or artists that makes that fact more clear.
>>48264274
Forest Killers
Tessen is a small ATN boost, and an effect duplicated by War Fans 3.
>>48264584
Yogo Junzo, you're triple dead already. Hush.
>>48263388
>those thighs
I don't like how this is appealing directly to my fetishes.
>>48264941
My feelings, pretty much. I know it's discordant with L5R but goddamn if I don't like Genzoman's waifus.
>>48264492
>>48264642
So say we were to rank the ronin techniques rank by rank.
Rank 1: Forest Killers
Rank2: Silent Blades?
Rank 3: Generic
Rank 4:Guardian of the hidden temple
Rank 5:Wild Legion?
So has anyone tried using Osprey Presses' Ronin in order to run L5R tabletop skirmishes?
If so, how did it go?
>>48265332
For that matter, has anyone actually played Clan War?
>>48265224
generic bushi school is treated like a normal school. You enter it at rank 1.
>>48265476
My wife and I do (she's the one who introduced me to L5R in the first place), and we've had a few other folks come and go. We have 3,000-ish koku armies for Unicorn, Lion, Crane, and Pheonix, plus special characters.
The game itself isn't actually terrible; it's a LOT like 5e Warhammer Fantasy battles in practice, plus the dueling mechanics. The major downsides for the game were the facts that the ENTIRE line was lead, it required a whole lot of minis (80-ish infantry is a good start), and the miniatures either came in tiny blisters, were hard to find in any quantity, or both. But if you could actually assemble 1500 koku worth of troops plus some special characters, it was actually pretty fun. And the minis, while mostly monopose, were VERY nicely sculpted for the most part.
I wrote an L5R3e to Clan War converter and put it on the AEG forums at one point, but even then Clan War was basically defunct. Here it is if you want it; if you've got an methodology questions I'll answer them as well as I can remember. This *is* something like a 9 year old file...
>>48263157
She's not debating, she's correcting his inferior fingering technique. Really shocking for a Scorpion, they're supposed to be good at these sorts of things.
>>48266080
Is that why he's smelling his finger?
>>48266104
Yes. They're really alone, those faces in the back aren't really there. They're his dead Scorpion ancestors back to when his ancestor was allowed to swear fealty to the clan looking on in shame. It isn't that complex, Bayushi-san.
>>48265224
I thought it was possible to treat it like an alternate rank? Like a Tessen would start with their rank 1, then continue with the generic school?
>>48258962
>I dunno what entry you are referencing
Core. Book. Page. Forty. Two.
There's a good chunk of text under the quote. I suggest reading it.
> military protection, guarding the commoners [...] this form of compassion which is the most widely respected and revered across Rokugan.
The spear was the most commonly used weapon of antiquity across the world, and the primary weapon of the samurai in close quarters historically. In L5R, the yari sucks balls because of katana worship.
Spear skills suck. The first mastery only helps in one round of combat, the others are just insulting compared to kenjutsu/heavy weapons bonuses.
The yari itself sucks. 2k2 and throwable? I guess it's large, which means it can benefit from the advantage Large, but it's mechanically garbage compared to even modestly bad weapons like the naginata (3k2, slightly better skill masteries, is a samurai weapon).
How would you fix spears for the game? As written setting them against charge is useless, there's no such thing as a reach advantage, there's no reason to ever use one that I can see.
While keeping the damage at 2, I would add an automatic static initiative bonus for all spear users. I would add a damage bonus against any opponent who had moved more than a certain amount in the last turn, representing the ability to set the spear (not sure if that would be mastery or for free). Katanas would maintain their generic best status, but spears would at least have a reason to exist.
>>48268494
Yari in 1st Edition were undeniably better then Katana.
>4k2 DR
>+1k0 Init
>Fine Quality Bonus: +1k0 To Hit\+1k0 DR\+1k0 Init
In fact, most weapons in 1st Edition were terrible except for the Katana, Yari, Nodachi, Naginata. Heavy Weapons did literally nothing, and a Tetsubo was worse then a Katana in damage and everything else (didn't get a polearm init bonus either)
>>48268494
>throwable?
You don't throw a Yari
Sojutsu doesn't involve throwing a Yari
What the hell is AEG thinking?
>>48268653
The daitsuchi was plain better than the tetsubo. Cheaper, ignored armor like the tetsubo but had the polearms' bonus to initiative.
Ono were mechanically identical to naginata except for the different skill. Aiguchi and tanto were the same as well but you might as well pick the aiguchi since it's 1 koku less. Also, literally no difference between daikyu and yumi.
>>48268778
>literally no difference between daikyu and yumi
There was. Unicorn Horse Archery and Yomanri gave you horrific negatives unless you used a Daikyu on horseback. Something like +10 to TN if you were using a Yumi, something like that. They talk about it in Way of the Unicorn
>>48268814
Going by core though they're the same in range and cost. Which is silly.
>>48268653
>+1k0 Init
Hmmmm very nice. that sounds like a good fix right there for all spears and polearms. Mine as well bump the damage up to 3k2 as well, katana will still have the void damage bonus to itself and all of the social benefits.
Now to improve the mastery abilities!
Rank 3: When attacking an opponent who has moved more than 15 feet in the last round, or who is in the full attack stance, add +0k1 damage.
Rank 5: Free raise to Called Shot
Rank 7: Doesn't matter, spears are playable now
>>48268494
>How would you fix spears for the game?
Something like this:
When moving into an engagement distance against a spear-user (or when a spear-user engages you in melee), the spear-user may make a "free" normal melee attack with no Raises possible before the other party completes their attack. If the spear-user chooses to use this option, the attacked party may spend 1 Void Point to negate the spear attack. If two spear-users are moving into melee distance against one another, both may make the "free" attack against each other. Any Wound Levels suffered by the other party will affect the melee attack they were trying to make.
There's these mastery rules that were kicking around a while ago.
>>48268903
Whoops, should be 30 feet, to represent the simple action run of a 3 water character, or horses.
>>48268903
4th Edition Spears
>3k2 DR
>+1k0 Init Bonus
>Rank 3: Add small bonus to Init (Air Ring)
>Rank 5: Target gets a small negative to Reduction
>Rank 7: +1k0 Init, Replace Rank 3
There
>>48268911
That seems more like a School Technique, then a mastery ability
https://youtu.be/LA4ygFuqMX0
>>48269235
I meant more as a basic property of the weapon. Not a technique, not a mastery ability. If you have a spear, you can do that (because it's long, and you HAVE to get past the point to get to the other guy).
>>48233905
>6k3 attack roll, 7k2 katana
So what you're saying is that you're a bushi. I C, very impressive that you passed your gempukku.
Though +2k1 on damage is pretty good, not going to contest that.
Just starting converting this game into a GoT RPG. Man so little work to do, it all fits and works so well already. Except magic.
So what's the most out-there character concept you've ever thought of?
For me, it was a returned spirit (Through Volturnum /Oblivion's Gate) from an extremely minor clan that had been wiped out and forgotten centuries ago.
So now they're the sole member of their clan. Records were dug up showing that it's still officially an active clan (Because the Emperor at the time never even heard of it being wiped out, and nobody ever took it to subsequent Emperors), and it has at least one member now thanks to Toturi allowing spirits to stay if they become mortal again.
It's functionally just a lost and confused ronin++, but I feel like there's a lot of potential for fun and dramatic things to happen when a technical clan champion shows up without any lands or clanmates (yet?).
>>48234002
10k6 with my IR2 Kaiu Artisan is amused by this.
Current ingame best damage roll is 91. I made a Lost go squish.
>>48270090
How? The highest I've rolled ( which was 1 session ago) was 64 in a sumai match.
>>48270090
>Kaiu Artisan
Did you mean Engineer, or is there a Kaiu Artisan school hiding in one of the splat books? Or not 4th edition, that would make sense too.
>10k6
That's too low on kept dice to be a siege weapon, which was my first thought. I'll bite, one-upper, how'd you make that work?
>>48270086
A Nezumi who assisted Samurai on the Wall during a mission, only for a Mirumoto to fall and request his daisho be returned to the High House of Light. So the Ratling is on a quest to get to Dragon Lands, carrying a Dragon Clan daisho known to belong to a skilled swordsman. Enemies and encounters with samurai who think he stole the swords, samurai who think he's the Dragon who has fallen under a terrible curse and thus needs to be executed, and perhaps agents of a rival family who arranged for the Mirumoto to be betrayed over the Wall and who don't want his daisho to be returned so the insult remains complete.
Just a rat on a mission, trying to make it from the south to the north; taking what help he can get and probably wearing an ill-fitting kitstune mask and binding up his tail so he can just look like a crooked man at the occasional road-house.
It's a very out there concept but I think there's potential for it. It'd work well in a wandering Samurai game, and the goal would be not to steal central focus but to have consistent plots for the GM to use if need be, and to have a set destination of the High House of Light--which is hard to reach anyhow.
He'd be a very chill dude who knows that when it comes to Samurai Culture he's best off keeping quiet and staying out of sight; while slowly realizing that he should try to do justice to the soul and honor he carries in that daisho because Lord Mirumoto was a good and just man and sometimes you just cannot abide the bullshit that happens.
>>48245247
>cheeky link to an Oriental Adventures PDF goes here
>>48238153
>>48238261
Damn it's like you're describing variations of my first L5R game.
Kasuga trained as Soshi Shugenja (Talk, Investigate, Shoot and Cast), Bayushi Bushi (Murder, Poison, Medicine and Blackmail), Kakita Duelist (Duels, Being Loved, Being Famous In The Good Way)
I was the Kasuga. Me and my scorpion buddy had a grand old time terrifying people who might bother our precious cinnamon bun.
>>48270227
But that's 2E, anon.
>>48245247
I'm uploading to a mega now.
>>48270086
Crab bushi "on loan" to the Scorpion clan for some huge favors. He works for the Scorpion and wears an Scorpion outfit, complete with mask, but he's so obviously not one it hurts (brute and uncouth; Large is a must, as well as carrying a small arsenal on his back). He bothers the shit out of other clans with more regular dealings with the Scorpion but can't exactly point it out without making everyone but him uncomfortable, and even the Scorpion that aren't in on the joke are kinda miffed at this dude being the proverbial bull in the china shop around the plans and webs of deceit they lay. For his part, the dude is just having the time of his life scaring off fat courtiers and not living next to the Shadowlands.
>>48270225
A disgraced Miya Herald with the True Love Disadvantage who was targeted by the Kolat for some unknown reason. He's on the run from the Imperial City because someone in his family is involved with the Kolat and he has learned very quickly even bringing up that name brings nothing to him but horror and dread. A guy who is trying his best to lay low and be anything other than who he is.
Money is tight but he has friends he could call upon if he really needed to risk it. Slowly uncovering the fact that it was his true love who was trying to pull him into the conspiracy only for him to be targeted by her handler who was jealous of their love.
A guy who is not going to trust Benten if he survives any of this. Is on a musha-shugyo if anyone asks, and any bushi in the party is someone he desperately wants to learn from because he's used to having a yojimbo and knows he needs to protect himself.
Makes use of his knowledge of Imperial Law and Bureaucracy to assist anyone he can. Probably a bit disgusted by how things are outside of the Imperial City. The dirtiness of anything other than the cleanest and most pampered place gives him a subtle disgust.
Would be fun to play him in a ronin game with a couple of bandits. While they're whoring it up and stealing shit, he's playing menko and trying to figure out where to go from here. Probably makes his wage by reading and writing for the common man and the uneducated, his calligraphy really shining through.
He'd certainly lose some weight.
I run games a lot more than I play. I think I'm nostalgic for a wandering campaign I wanted to run that fell apart due to scheduling conflicts.
>>48270276
At 75%.
>>48270090
>>48270221
I like novel builds, and the choice of school perplexes me in this case. How'd you do it?
>inb4 gaijin powder bombs
>>48262844
> Scorpion
Honey. Traps.
> Crane
Fuck em. Wait no don't stick it in the Crane.
> Shirtless Dragon monks
Tats don't work when covered. Also monks.
> Hida warriors wearing a breastplate and nothing underneath
These are clearly Yakushi courtiers who are very drunk.
>>48266080
>>48266104
>>48266225
Incredible Joke
My Insides Are Hurting Now
Thanks Based Anons
>>48233227
>>48245247
>>48270483
https://mega.nz/#F!pFJHQb4a!aTRN6jnqqgkK0hoTMUfgAQ
Someone tell me if I did this right?
>>48269475
Yeah, and like the other anon said, that a peice of school tech and not a mastery ability.
>>48269475
>>48270622
Or an inherent quality. Fuck.
>>48270621
You did good, anon.
>>48270720
Glad I could help.
>>48270090
>>48270181
>>48270221
It's the 3e School. I was using the Armourer Tech.
Anyway I should have said that wasn't my base roll, just the roll I tended to make. My base roll was more like 10k3.
I did it by using a Dai Tsuchi, with Large and Bishamon's Blessing, being in Full Attack and then making a BIG pile of raises. It helped that I was attacking an unaware target (I said 'Lost-san assume your stance.' as I attacked so it's okay). Then I rolled a shitload of 10s. I actually broke the group's previous record with a single swing of 87, which was made by the same character in an earlier session.
That said in a later later on our IR 3, Paragon of Strength Mirumoto managed about 140 damage in one round.
We aren't allowed to use that particular set of dice anymore. Not that we haven't had some absurd rolls with other sets...
>>48270063
Considering it's my 2nd game ever, I'm pleased with myself. I play to pick up Empire Rests on Its Edge at some point as well, for sweet iaijutsu/kenjutsu gains.
So I threw together a minor clan.
I know it's way above average for a Minor Clan, but is it too powerful? Ranks 2 and 5 in particular might be. The idea is basically a bunch of slightly off-kilter mystics who use divination and omens for everything they possibly can. And obviously their founder was literally named Cormorant and that's why it's the family name.
Cormorant Clan
Umiu Family +1 Intelligence
Umiu Bushi +1 Reflexes
Skills: Defense, Hunting, Kenjutsu, Divination, Meditation, Lore: Omens, Any one Bushi or Merchant skill
Rank 1: Throw The Bones
Once per day, after successfully making a Divination roll, you may spend a void point. If you do, you may reroll any one roll made within a number of hours equal to your Fire Ring, keeping the higher result.
Rank 2: Fickle Fortune
Once per skirmish when attacking, you may choose to change one of your dice results from a 10 into a 9 (Losing the exploding die). If you do, you may treat your attack as if you had called a number of raises equal to half your Divination skill rank, rounding up (Limited by your Void as normal).
Rank 3: Pull The Strings
Once per round, you may choose an opponent. That opponent must call a raise for no benefit when attacking you this round.
Rank 4: Slip Beneath
You may attack as a Simple Action while using a Samurai weapon.
Rank 5: Break The Surface
You may now gain the benefit of your Rank 1 Technique without spending a void point. In addition, the raises gained from your Rank 2 Technique are equal to your Divination skill rank, and are not limited by your Void.
>>48270866
Oh right.
Honor 4
Starting Outfit
Sturdy Clothing
Ashiaru or Light Armor
Daisho
Any one Weapon
Kawaru set
Travelling kit
1 koku
>>48270845
I was being unnecessarily cheeky, but in all honesty that's a good strong damage roll with a Katana and have +2k1 damage on the void tap is a bit nuts. Normal people have to make raises for that kinda thing you know!
>>48270090 >>48270901
One-Eye here again-
7k2 before spending VP, where it becomes 9k3.
My group's actually been planning how to employ this- our yojimbo goes into Defense + Guard, standing in for me while I go center stance. I get +1k1 on the following round. Depending on target TNs, i either feint w/ the Center Bonus adding to my damage result, or I use it on the damage roll + void point.
I also have the Strength of the Scorpion Kata, if that's up- any time I feint, +3 damage.
lesse...
Centered Attack would be 7k3 - this is to make my feint raises!
Centered Damage would be 8k4 (str 2, kenjutsu mastery, shosuro blade, +1k1)
Centered Void Damage would be 10k5? (As above, +2k1 from void)
Feints would at IR 1, give me anywhere from +4 to +8 damage.
Hmm... when I come out of Center Stance, I enter a New Stance to attack- do I get the benefits of that stance?
>>48270866
>(Limited by your Void as normal)
Does anyone actually use this rule?
Because I just love having to have 5 viod to make the Extra Attack maneuver.
Or needing to have 3 void to Trip a man.
What's that? You're a practical fighter not afraid to use combat tricks? Well you better go and contemplate the oneness of reality for a while so you can learn to take a man's legs out from under him.
Always feels like an absurd and nonsensical limitation to me. If some hot head bushi wants to try and do some over the top crazy sword trick why not let him just go for that really high TN? Or what if some cheeky courtier wants to tell lies to his Daimyos face in Haiku form?
Only if they're really in tune with the universe say the base rules. But why I ask you?
>>48270914
You can't apply Center Stance bonuses to damage. It's to do with the fact that damage rolls aren't skill rolls, which is why they're so hard to get high.
Other than that the whole point of center stance is that you get the +1k1 on the turn you leave the stance, i.e. Center Stance, next turn go into Full Attack and apply bonus to Kenjutsu Roll, enjoy +3k2 to your attack that round.
>>48270890
And that 4 should actually be 4.5 to keep it in line with every other school.
>>48270993
Really? Was this added in errata? According to the book, it says 'Any one roll made during his turn'.
>>48270866
I'd change it as follows.
Rank 1: Throw the Bones
Once per day you may choose to make a Divination/Void roll against a TN of 20. If you succeed this roll, you may reroll any one roll until dusk.
Rank 2: Fickle Fortune
Prior to rolling for an attack you may choose to ignore Exploding Dice. If you do so, and still hit the enemy, you may count any 10 you've rolled as a free Called Raise for the purpose of maneuvers. These free Called Raises cannot exceed your Void Ring.
Rank 3: Pull the Strings
If an enemy attacks you and missed, they take a penalty to hit equal to your Divination Skill for the remainder of the battle. This ability can only effect one enemy at a time.
Rank 4: Slip Beneath
You may attack with Samurai weapons as a simple action. If your enemy has the Disbeliever Disadvantage or is Cursed by a Fortune, Increased Damage maneuvers grant +1k1 on the initial called raise.
Rank 5: Break the Surface
When in Centered Stance or upon immediately exiting Centered Stance, you may add your Divination to your TN and to Attack Rolls. If you have successfully performed your Rank 1 Technique, you gain +2k1 rather than +1k1 when spending Void Points.
Play up the idea of how omens and divinations fade with the setting sun and return with the dawn; put more of an emphasis on being a bushi. 2 and 5 are simplified now to a number of Free Called Raises equal to the 10s you're giving up, and the use of Divination as a TN bonus and an Attack Bonus due to the technique being about striking something you were fated to.
>>48271030
I like it.
>>48271029
...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
You may be right.
I think it's written somewhere in the rules on damage but I can't remember where.
My understanding was that it functioned like using a void point to give yourself +1k1 to a skill role.
May have to ask my DM about this.
Well anyway if you and yours are all on board with doing it that way then I wish you good rolls and many brutalised enemies.
>>48270993
>You're a practical fighter not afraid to use combat tricks? Well you better go and contemplate the oneness of reality for a while so you can learn to take a man's legs out from under him.
Great Potential [weapon skill]
>>48270866
As far as fluff goes, the clan was created in the same way that many obscure minor clans are. An Emperor had an unhealthy obsession with divination and fortune telling, and, when he found someone with real skill at such things, created a clan on the spot.
Their charter is somewhat vague, but amounts to cataloging and testing all of the different ways Rokugani can divine what fate has in store. Most of those ways are grubby peasant methods, so they've got a similar reputation to the Sparrow in that regard. They're bushi because their duty brings them out to remote and dangerous corners of the empire and they don't have significant shugenja blood.
The Cormorant clan would most likely be destroyed or discredited by the Phoenix in a mess of Maho accusations, because they're independent researchers of mystical knowledge and that makes the Isawa angry and jealous. They probably went out in a similar fashion to the Tanuki. Someone decided to really go fuck them up, got there, and found the entire clan already scattered to the wind.
>>48271119
And if I'm a prodigy of sword with 4 Kenjutsu and 4 agility for whom making a 30+ roll is expected, but lack that advantage, then what?
Really I dislike the rule because it takes options away from the players by forcibly linking a mechanic (raises) that revolves around undertaking a harder roll for great effect to a stat that's got no mechanical tie to 90% of skills. It's a clash of mechanics and thematics that I just can't resolve.
Now if the rule read "Cannot make raises beyond Stat or Ring used in the skill roll." I'd accept that.
But as it stands it mechanically restricts a huge number of samurai from undertaking actions that should be totally within their skill.
>>48271269
>if I'm a prodigy of sword [without great potential]
Then you're an efficient killer, not a combat prodigy.
>>48271245
I'd go with something like this:
The Cormorant was a notable gambler in the Imperial City, a ronin who had history with a number of fireman gangs. It was during this time that a young Emperor was known to smuggle himself out of the Imperial Palace to engage in less than noble activities with the less than reputable folk of the City. He had been warned by his closest advisers that such a thing would not make the Fortunes smile upon him, but the Emperor had faith.
Fate saw the Emperor and the Cormorant throwing dice behind a geisha house, and fate saw a brutish thug try to mug the two of them for all they were worth. The Cormorant took a knife for the Emperor and dispatched the thug with brutal precision.
The young Emperor saw the Cormorant as an agent of Fate, a chosen savior brought to him by the Heavens to provide him with both entertainment and protection. The following day as the Cormorant was collecting his winnings, he was brought to the Imperial Palace by the Seppun and told he was to be the head of a new Minor Clan. As an agent of fate he was to catalog phenomenon, omen, and strange divination for the boon of the Empire.
The Cormorant gladly accepted his newfound luck and station and considered it an act from the Heavens that such luck could even find him.
The Cormorant Clan however, lacks any shugenja blood of note. And the Cormorant himself brought into the fold individuals he personally liked or found lucky or attractive. Over time a technique was developed based on luck and opening oneself up to the ways the wind might blow.
The Clan is still small, even in later eras. They are barely a footnote in history, present during ominous tidings and taking note. Their feeble holding is a small village near Scorpion Lands, known for its geisha house and dens of vice. The Lucky Village experiences things a little easier than other holds. Its people are devout and willing to be malleable to change.
>>48271308
And if I've trained my whole life as a warrior but never took the advantage?
How many Clan Champions are there with 7+ Kenjutsu and 5+ Agility that can't try for Extra Attack because they only have 4 Void?
My problem is that the rule is a contrivance that limits player choice.
Give me a justification for people of skill and ability being unable to use a skill based technique that involves hitting a man in the leg because they have starting void.
Or how about you justify not being able to shoot someone in the arm because you have 2 void, or the head if you have 3.
Don't give me a cute line, justify it. Explain how skill, techniques and aiming are restricted by connection to the Void.
>>48271360
The Clan's sacred artifact is "the Brute's Bones", a set of dice and holy bones for divination made from the spine of the thug who had attacked the Emperor and the Cormorant. This artifact is also the Clan's undoing.
The Phoenix do not enjoy the truth of the Clan's origins, something most are not aware to the full truth of. The use of bones from a slain criminal as a vaunted artifact leads easily to accusations of Maho. And the Cormorant Clan often being around during horrendous events of Maho-Tsukai (following where Fate takes them of course) leads to easy accusations. The Cormorant being present where disaster might fall is far more damning than being present where blessings might occur. Bad press by a Great Clan easily leads to them being slandered, losing station, and falling into even further obscure history.
They do research mystical knowledge and esoteric traditions, they do a good job and are responsible for making sure peasants are able to observe many of their rituals in peace. But their origins are meager, borderline insulting, and their mystical sword style comes entirely out of luck and being able to roll with the wheel of kharma rather than remaining steadfast and trying to ride it.
>>48271380
>Explain how skill, techniques and aiming are restricted by connection to the Void.
Rokugan is not Japan. Your real life examples literally do not matter. The only thing that matters is the world described by the game. In THAT world, someone who has not concentrated on improving their inner harmony cannot deliberately hit a man in the leg or shoot them in the arm. Deal with it.
nothing new on the FFG LCG?
>>48271423
Might be something at GenCon. MIGHT. IIRC the original stuff from FFG said not to expect anything on the LCG until 2017 at best, and if there's an RPG at all it wouldn't be until at least 2 years after the LCG dropped. There's been no modification of that statement to my knowledge.
Carrying on with One-Eye goodness here:
so if we assume Center Stance can apply to damage rolls, and my gal steps out of Center into Full Attack, that's Kenjutsu 3, Reflexes 3, +2k1; Depending on what I need, I can shove another +1k1 +3 and +2k1 onto the attack roll.
Base Attack: 6k3
Full Attack: 8k4
Centered Full Attack: 9k4 +3
Centered Void Full Attack: 11k5 +3
Now iirc I need to have 2 dice over 10 to get a Keep...
Alternatively, I can go damage after a Full Attack:
Centered Damage: 8k3 +3
Centered Void Damage: 10k4 +3
And this is all moot if my gal dies horribly in her first encounter or get shanked when she spends a VP to help someone!
