What is the World Ends With You?
It's a strikingly original Square Enix action RPG from 2008 for the Nintendo DS about trust, collective consciousness, desperation, imagination and fabulous outfits. Characters are swept into the Underground, a parallel dimension of Tokyo's Shibuya district, where they run through a 7-day gauntlet of tasks and trials by higher-plane beings called Reapers. Band together and win the Reapers' Game and you have a shot at returning to the Real World. Fail, and you face erasure.
>What is this?
This is a /tg/ Homebrew Project to create a tabletop RPG based on the above game. The goal is to create something that's fast and exciting, incorporating most if not all of the mechanics from the game and fleshing them out with new ideas that fit the themes. And what are those themes?
>Cooperation
A Player in the Reapers' Game can't survive on their own. The Players are arranged into a party where they share combat power, pass stacking buffs to one another (quite literally, in the form a "light puck") and must stay in the fight together.
We're also working a Trust and Synchronization mechanics which measure how in-touch you are with other Players.
>Powers
Players have access to powerful abilities called Psychs which they use to battle Noise, monsters spawned from human struggles and psychological dissonance that plague the Underground. These take the form of Pins that players collect and wear and activate to use their power.
>Fashion
Spend your precious time in the Reapers' Game shopping high-end boutiques or thrift stores for a new pair of skinny jeans or a worn parka that gives you extra attack power or modifies your battle combo!
>What system are you using?
Right now we're working with the system used in an actual Japanese tabletop RPG, Tenra Bansho Zero. Roll a dice pool equal to one of your Stats (Rhythm, Flow, Insight and Bravery), and count each die that's under the Skill or Psych you're using as a success.
>>48139640
>What have you done so far?
Here's our main document, which contains all of our ideas recorded en masse:
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/15kJXvBVinsbst0tMWmzwaUj5ddk0hotd3nifw3Hs720/edit
We also have a couple supplementary documents:
The Psychlopedia
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yjonEzY_gVzJm5FyYksoDnx1otVEBpjAA8K1Ozw3eZU/edit
This is a rundown of all the Psychs in the source game. As we develop the system these will be fleshed out with actual mechanics.
The Thread Count:
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/16Uc3YJ-yRMoDhNc90EK5Ao0WOrubO0Gnl8ixIYQOEZs/edit
This is going to catalog the various Threads (clothing) and Brands from the source game, as a resource for GMs to use in their own games.
The Couture Matrix:
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1850Ubwvdlqe0_9hk176tZ91-ykkJFlHX2XeS2VAA5Gw/edit
Rules for randomly rolling new Threads.
Also, I could have sworn we had another link. Oh well.
>What's on the Agenda?
Final touches for pins, a few more noise and small adjustments will be all we need for playtesting.
I know I said that last time, but I really mean it for realsies this time.
Last Thread:
>>48005243
First for Lapin Angelique!
>>48140608
Second for tin pin?
>>48140779
Sure, why not
Thoughts about Noise that I had during this morning's work-out.
I'm not sure if Archivist and I have been on the same page as to how Noise work, but I think I've got it figured out. I was still in the mindset of Tenra Bansho Zero, where all combat is a set of contested actions, but that will result in slower and more random, when our goal should be to streamline fighting as much as possible.
I'm not sure if this is what Archivist thought to begin with, but here's what I've been considering:
>Noise Attacks
When a Noise attacks a Player, its attacking stat, typically Treble, acts as a static Difficulty that the Player must beat using a defensive Skill or Psych. If they fail to get enough Successes, then the player takes damage based on the difference between their Successes and the Noise's attack stat.
>Example
>Jazz gets attacked by a Noise with a Treble of 4. She rolls Protect:Flow to get out of the way but only gets 2 Successes. The Noise's attack deals 1 Damage per remaining Treble, so Jazz takes 2 Damage.
If multiple of the same Noise attack a Player at once, then their attacking stats are added together to form a much bigger Difficulty that the Player must overcome.
I'm thinking that attacks from different Noise are resolved separately, but they could also be combined similarly to the above.
>Noise Defense
Similarly, a Noise's defensive stat, usually Bass, acts as a difficulty that the Player's attacking pool must overcome. Each point of Bass will cancel one Success from the Player.
>Example
>Rock is attacking a Noise with a Bass of 2. Rock rolls 5 successes with his Shockwave Psych. The Noise's Bass gobbles two of those Successes, so he deals damage with 3 Successes. The Noise takes 6 damage.
One of the advantages in this system is that the GM never has to roll for his Noise's attacks or defense. If a Player uses an attack that targets multiple Noise at once, the GM doesn't have to make separate defense rolls for each Noise.
Oh and here's the character sheet, since it's always good to post this early in the thread.
Here's something I posted at the end of the last thread, shortly before it got Archived that I think it worth talking about:
One thing I'm worried about in making these Pins is that there will eventually come a point where, because of Pin choices and Player actions, a Player has a turn where ALL of his Pins are on reboot. Obviously this is a case of being hoisted by one's own petard, but it still kind of sucks from a fun-having perspective.
Here's an idea to help mitigate that:
>The Intrinsic Psych
Each Player has an Intrinsic Psych, which is unique to him, and serves kind of as a basic attack. This is what Shiki (Groove Pawn), Beat (Respect) and Joshua (who knows) use. An Intrinsic Psych has an instant boot, no reboot and unlimited uses, but is fairly weak compared to regular Psyches.
Intrinsic Psychs do not consume AP as normal and don't have Ranks. Instead, you roll 1 dice for each AP you use, and your target Rank is based on your highest Tag, which is the one that most represents you at a given time. As a result, it's possible for the form of your Intrisinc Psych to evolve throughout the game, but it still has the same effect.
An Intrinsic Psych can either have Range 0 and deal 2 Damage per Success, or have Range 1 and deal 1 Damage per Success. You can't combo with your Intrinsic Psych.
How does that idea sound?
>>48142222
I thought we all agreed to it. However, with your new creature idea of having a difficulty of hitting, wouldn't that kind of ruin the intrinsic pins? You'd need to spend all of your AP just to connect at higher levels. Perhaps instead having its dice based on your Tag instead, with its rank being purchasable for Soul, or its Rank being linked to its Mag? Also, if all pins start at Mag 1, then these could be Mag 0.
>>48142379
Actually I've rethought the AP= Dice approach, and the Intrinsic Psych attack should just be Tag:Stat like most Tag rolls already are.
I like the idea of the Intrinsic Psych being attacked to a Tag or Tags because it means it emerges organically from the design of the character. Shiki's Intrinsic Psych is Groove Pawn, and it allows her to control Mr. Mew because she has the Tag "Fashionista". Beat's Intrinsic Psych is Respect, a Shockwave Pin using his skateboard, because he has the Tag "Skateboard Punk" or something along those lines.
It's not really meant to be a replacement for other Psychs, just an option so that you don't need to use a Psych if you don't want to for some reason. It's a bit of a departure from the core game but I think it could be necessary. It also means that if you know a Noise is almost dead you don't need to waste a Psych use on it to take off 1 HP.
Hey Jazzman, since you've got a prospective playtest coming, what's left that you'd like to have done to be able to run a basic game? I'd love to finish off the Mag-0 Pins that we've been working on so that everyone has a decent selection to choose from, but what else?
>>48142642
I MAY have a playtest tomorrow. Nobody has actually responded.
I guess I need enemies for day 2, as well as actual character building stuff and intrinsic pin stats.
Also, what a mag advancement actually means, stat-wise.
>>48143025
>Also, what a mag advancement actually means, stat-wise.
Here's kind of what I'm thinking. This is totally speculative right now:
Damage Limit +2: 1 Mag
Uses +1: 1 Mag
Damage +1 + Successes: 1 Mag
Damage per Success +1: 2 Mag
Targets +1 (for Multi-target Psychs): 2 Mag
AP Cost -1: 2 Mag
Range +1: 3 Mag
Of course we also need to figure out the actual rules for increasing a Pin's Magnitude.
>>48144440
Mag should cost Soul. Say probably Soul squared. That would be 1 Soul to go from 0 to 1, 4 to go from 1 to 2, 9 for 3, 16 for 4, 25 for 5, etc etc etc. Though I feel certain amounts of "points" should be allocated per mag. Say you got 3 points per Mag and followed your level up chart. Upping Damage three times (for what I assume is a massive hit style attack) will be great, it means you need to score less successes to deal loads of damage. But it also means the damage limit is easier to reach. That means that your successes may in fact be only there to calculate a hit. If you instead grab a damage limit upgrade and two damage ups, you need the same amount of successes to deal max damage, but your max damage AND your standard damage is higher.
The only issue is that you're paying Soul, which is already going to be used for other things. Though I suppose you'll have a bunch anyway. Perhaps it could only be for the Intrinsic pins that you can spend Soul for, as it's a pin made specifically for you.
Magnitude should really define how strong a pin is. A Mag 1 pin should be objectively better than a Mag 0 pin of the same type. I feel your progression is a bit slow, which is why I suggested this.
Also I feel Range +1 should cost less but also only affect pins that are already ranged.
>>48144685
I agree with improving Magnitude being a Soul investment.
The thing about enhancing the Magnitude of a Pin is that you really don't need to unless you have some particular attachment to the Pin.
Like, you can spend Soul to improve a Mag-1 Shockwave Pin, OR you can wait to acquire another Shockwave at a higher Magnitude. Many attacking Psychs have 4-5 Pins associated with them, so chances are there's a better version of the Pin you have which you can find instead of improving its Mag manually.
For character building:
>Core Stats
Core Stats start at 1, Players are given 7 Stat points to distribute as they see fit, with no Stat being greater than 4 at the start. This would lead, I think to a fairly standard array of 4,3,2,2 or 4,4,2,2, which I think is totally doable for the first day.
>Skill Points
We have 9 skills, each starting at 1, maxing at 4 at character creation.
What if:
-2 Skills at Rank 4
-3 Skills at Rank 3
-3 Skills at Rank 2
-1 Skill at Rank 1
Which would give us 15 skill points at the start.
For Tags, Players can start with up to 3 Tags, one at 4, one at 3 and one at 2. One of those Tags MUST be representative of their Entry Fee. A Player can also choose to drop their Rank 2 Tag and start with just Rank 4 and Rank 3, but one of those must still be the Entry Fee.
A Player can choose to conceal his Entry Fee from other Players, though not from the GM.
For Battle Stats, Attack and Defense start at 0, and are improved purely through Threads, so for now they'll be ignored.
How's that sound?
>>48144808
>you can spend Soul to improve a Mag-1 Shockwave Pin, OR you can wait to acquire another Shockwave at a higher Magnitude.
Thing about that is, if you get that pin at a higher Mag, you're probably going to want it made in a very specific way. You might want a faster reboot, and care less about overall damage. You might want high damage and care less about range. You might want a pin you've built yourself, so you can get exactly what you want.
Building it from scratch would be objectively better, unless our higher Mag pins are just straight-up better than the leveled ones.
>>48144963
I'd say then that we can expect Players to do a combination of Magnitude Enhancement and acquiring new Pins. Remember that you can fuse older, lower Mag pins into new, higher Mag pins to pass on some of their Ranks, so work done on lower Mag Psychs isn't lost completely when you equip a new Pin at a higher magnitude.
>>48144950
>Core stats and skill points
Great, write it down so I can print it off.
>Tags
What is the benefit of dropping the Tag?
>Battle stats
Ace, we can work on it later, after the playtest.
>>48145001
>What is the benefit of dropping the Tag?
No real benefit, it's just that it doesn't FORCE a Player to come up with a Tag that he isn't fully board with. A character with a simple backstory and personality may not need two Tags plus his Entry Fee. On the other hand maybe he does, it's why it's an option.
>>48145025
Perhaps making it 3, 3, 2 instead, as people who don't focus on something single-mindedly generally put less effort into things they do focus on.
Or something. I dunno.
I should sleep, I got gym first thing and I'm already going to be operating on 5 hours.
>>48145124
No worries. Glad you could help out today. Here's the quantified character creation rules:
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/15kJXvBVinsbst0tMWmzwaUj5ddk0hotd3nifw3Hs720/edit?pref=2&pli=1#bookmark=id.dq8evnbuy10z
I rewrote some stuff about Tags to fit our new understanding of how they work:
>In addition to one’s entry fee and Medium, a Player has several Tags, which describe important aspects of their character. Tags are freely created and unique to each Player, although they must be approved by the GM. Tags represent significant aspects of a Player’s personality-- his background, desires, who he is, what he lives for. Tags have Ranks between 1 and 7, just like Skills.
>Mechanically, a Tags are most frequently used to make Drive Rolls, which work similarly to Skills rolls. You use one of your Stats, typically your highest, as the dice pool and a Tag as the target number. Drive Rolls are used as a measurement of resolve and determination-- how much do you want the thing that you’re pursuing? What are you willing to sacrifice to give it up? Drive Rolls also come into play when a Player’s inner-self is challenged; a successful Drive Roll leads a Player to cope with the challenge, while a failed Drive Roll forces them into a flight, fight or freeze response. Drive Rolls are also used at the end of each day to generate Sync from the Props that each Player receives.
>Tags can also be used in place of a Skill if it’s relevant to a specific challenge. For instance a Player has the Tag “Streetwise Thug” then he can use that Tag in place of his Fight Skill to deal with people using physical force, or in place of his Speak Skill to intimidate someone.
>Finally, Tags empower a Player’s Intrinsic Psych, which is a Psych only he or she can use in combat. An Intrinsic Psych uses the Tag’s Rank in place of its own Psych Rank when used to attack Noise. Intrinsic Psychs are discussed in more detail in their own section.
Slow day today. Hey Archivist, if you do show up later can you give me some feedback on what I posted here:
>>48142166
Concerning how Noise work?
One thread, many bumps.
>>48150937
Friends afar, threads abump.
Which brands work best with eachother, both from a style and stat standpoint?
>>48139640
>incorporating most if not all of the mechanics
>putting all mechanics from a video game into a tabletop game
Destined to fail.
>>48139640
>What system are you using
That's not a system, that's just a base mechanic.
>What have you done so far
>ideas
This'll go nowhere if nobody does more about it than that.
>>48153199
>>48153224
Brutal. Savage. Rekt. Absolutely taken down. We'll consider fixing things if you tell us what's wrong, instead of just trying to shit on us.
>>48153156
We're doing base combat mechanics right now. Brands would, I would think, work best either alone or paired with other brands that either focus on the same stats or affect things similarly.
>>48152021
Follow Suit, Bump in Turn.
>>48154897
Blue Boards Bump Blue.
Some old heroes can't actually help threads, only attend.
Dr. Pin Jr wishes you luck.
This thread
Bump! Cobump! Tangents!
And occasional work.
So, we could, i dunno, post pin/thread ideas, character concepts, maybe art
I mean, better than bumps, right?
>>48157826
Pin suggestions are always appreciated.
Alright so I'm going to be pretty busy with work today but I still want to try and get the rest of the Mag-0.2 pins completed. That means working out rules for Apport and Entanglement.
I'm thinking that Apport is a Damage+Successes Pin whose effect is that it leaves a piece of Small Clutter on the Measure with the Noise it's targeting.
Still not sure what to do necessarily for Entanglement.
I also created a Strawpoll based on the idea brought up last thread of using MTG-style counters to represent Flame Core, Splash Core and other similar Psychs that leave behind a tangible force.
>http://www.strawpoll.me/10687572
If we decide to encourage their use, or even codify them, then we're pushing the game towards needing the use of a battle-mat, whereas if we turn down the idea then we make theater-of-the-mind more viable.
Here's the Mag-0.2 sheet updated with Meteor Magnet stated out. When you trigger its Finisher you do extra damage and drop a Medium piece of Clutter on the battlefield instead of a Small piece. This allows Apport to synergize nicely with Psychokinesis.
So guys, I brought it up with my group in person today.
After putting it to a vote, we got 3 votes for playing and 4 votes against. We played zombicide instead.
>>48157826
>pin/thread ideas, character concepts
great, I can do that.
>art
I can't art good. I can give it a go, I guess.
Also, guys, I've put a bit of thought into it, I feel most support pins/threads should either be NP or SH, or at least one brand. Probably NP because I remember them having clothes for both men and women, whereas SH was more women's fashion.
But that's just a thought I had.
>>48159616
No worries, glad you asked at least.
Don't forget too that a ton of Pavo Real pins have support functions. I think most of them actually.
Possible Entanglement Pin up and running. It's low damage but can affect a large number of Noise with its significant range, and it can cause Defense Break with its Finisher.
>>48159795
I meant most things that heal or buff your own party, not debuffs. And I suggested it because players might want to pick up different roles from early on in the game, as opposed to much later when you can afford Pavo Real.
Also, could you post the original pins, please?
I can do better than that!
This is a compiled PDF of both pages of Pins we've made so far. Contained herein are 3 Pins for each of the 4 Stats, all at Magnitude 0.
>>48160155
Oh, hah! That doesn't work because it overwrites the categories because they have the same name! I'll see what I can do to fix that.
Until I figure out a good way to handle that, here's the first page of Mag-0 Pins that we worked on previously.
>>48157826
I'm totally going to try my hand at pin design once I give the system as it stands a full read
>>48160326
>>48160155
Re suggesting Flame and Splash Core ideas.
Flame core places <#> of tokens per use anywhere in <range of measures>. When a noise enters a measure with one of those tokens, or attacks while in a measure with a token, it takes <amount of damage>, consuming the token.
Splash core is similar, but places fewer tokens at once/per recharge, and damages a noise when placed.
Spark Core is weird and moves and does stuff.
>>48160933
Meant to add: say if this is too complicated.
Someone said it means we need a real 'board' to track positions on, but our battlefield is really similar to Magical Burst's field system, which is barely anything, and certainly not complex.
>>48160991
Which is by design-- we wanted something that would be super easy to handle without even having a board, so having one only makes things simpler.
Here's a sample character I wrote up. Jasmine "Jazz" Carpenter.
Her Intrinsic Psych, which I'll make a special Pin form for, is called "Killer 88" which creates a ring of spectral piano keys that encircle her and fly off to impact enemies as she plays them.
>>48160991
Some people have trouble visualising and tracking everything anyway, so perhaps just having a page at the back of the game book with 5 sections could be useful, or even just making your own. Don't forget you're tracking Noise and Players, as well as everything else that happens. You could have up to a dozen noise on the field, probably more, and you think everyone could track them in their minds? And tracking individual and team health and pins and whatever else, it's better to have something to track it all on.
I'm personally in the pro-Battle Board camp; given how simple the Score is to create, I don't think it's burdensome to strongly suggest that Players and GMs use one to facilitate smooth an interesting combat.
>>48160933
I'm not sure if that's an accurate interpretation of what Flame Core does. Flame Core is launched at a Noise and then bounces off them or off the wall. It's not a stationary hazard, it's a hazardous projectile.
Maybe when you use it it applies its full successes against one Noise, and then partial successes against another Noise in a neighboring Measure.
>>48162300
Thing is, it's hard to represent Flame Core without making it sound like a Round ability, so I think they were going for a different feel and making it similar to the other Core abilities.
>>48162300
It's definitely how Splash core works. I thought Flame Core's balls stuck around a while.
I'll load up a deck of all weird Core pins and play around. I never really used them myself.
>>48162472
OK, revised I suppose:
Splash Core works like I've been saying. Flame Core is kind of a Patrol Round. Spark Core runs around randomly.
Maybe have Spash Core like I said above, Flame Core only works on enemies moving into/acting in your same measure, and Spark hits random enemies in some measure up to a total of X damage?
>>48162472
That's correct about Splash Core.
Flame Core and Splash Core are very similar; where they are different is with Splash Core, you plant them stationary in space, and they start bouncing around when enemies hit them.
With Flame Core, you fire them from Neku so they have an initial trajectory, and they bounce off enemies and walls.
For Flame Core, what we could say is that Flame Core deals damage when it's used, and then hangs around for a turn or so. Splash Core, on the other hand, does damage only when a Noise moves into that Measure. One's an active attack (based on Rhythm), while other is a passive attack based on area denial.
In other words here's the difference:
>Jazz uses Flame Core. It fires a ball of energy targeting a specific Noise, dealing damage. It leaves a Flame Core counter on a neighboring Measure that will damage the first Noise that enters it. The Counter lasts for 1 Round
>R.B uses Splash Core. He places a Splash Core counter in a Measure. It does no damage until a Noise moves into the Measure, at which point it damages that Noise and moves to a neighboring Measure. It lasts for 2 turns.
>>48162856
As much as I like how tactical the non-consuming Splash Cores can be, I think that them moving might get a little bit hard to track.
They also don't move that much in the game.
>>48162923
That's a fair point. So instead of bouncing all around maybe they stay in the Measure they are in and damage anyone that comes into them for a fixed period of time, to represent them bouncing all around.
The way I see it we can differentiate them a couple of ways:
>Flame Core does less damage, but inflicts damage immediately when it's used, whereas Splash Core only damages Noise when they stumble upon it
>Flame Core and Splash Core do comparable damage, but Splash Core sticks around longer
>>48162997
I like the second one, especially since Splash works more 'defensively'
How's damage to random targets for Spark?
>>48163014
>>48162997
I mean, they can do both. Flame is a decent since it could multi-hit, but with how long Splash sticks around, it could possibly do more damage.
Here's the template for an Intrinsic Psych. Note that it's a lot simpler than a standard Psych because Intrinsic Psychs are at once less refined (they don't have effects, really) and yet more flexible (they don't have strict AP costs or Boot and Reboot times). In place of an Effects box there's a Style and Description box, where you describe what your Psych does.
I figure that their Combo and Finishers can be based on your Threads, which gives us a use for the Combo modifier abilities that Threads have.
Make sense?
So the next sheet of Mag-0 Pins will be:
Splash Core (Insight)
Flame Core (Rhythm)
Spark Core (Bravery or Flow, not sure)
Piercing Pillar (Insight or Rhythm, up for debate)
Energy Rounds (Rhythm)
What's one more Psych you'd like to see stated out at Mag-0?
>>48162997
>>48163014
>>48163034
According to the wiki, Splash Core also always passes the puck, so it's combo finisher would be dealing any damage.
>>48163659
Which would make sense given our current puck mechanics, where you need to satisfy your combo requirements during the Round for the puck to be passed (unless you have Hold That Puck), and Splash Core will only be activated when a Noise moves (or is forcibly moved) into its Measure.
Food and HP:
So the idea behind Food is that it's a source of temporary boosts that are depleted as a Player digests its Bites.
As an example, a certain Food might be 4 Bites and grant Attack+1. During combat, the Player can digest 1 Bite of that food at a time to add +1 die to his Attack pool.
When you eat Food, you draw a / across a Bite box for each Bite that the Food is worth, going left to right, and write what its bonus is underneath. When you digest a Bite, you turn the / into an X.
That's pretty easy for Attack and Defense, but what about Health?
Food that grants Health does so by turning each Bite into a set amount of HP. When you take damage, you can digest those Bites to absorb the damage instead of directing it to your Player HP or the Group HP.
For some food, a Bite may be worth 2 or more HP. However, since you can't half-digest a Bite, if you're hit for less than the Bite's HP value, too bad. You still Digest that Bite.
Here's an example of how it could work:
>Before the fight, R.B. ate a bowl of chowder that grants HP+1 for 6 Bites. He records these bites as "/ / / / / /" and writes "HP+1" under them so he knows what they are worth.
>During the fight, he's hit for 1 damage. He absorbs that damage by digesting 1 Bite of his HP+1 Chowder. His bites now look like X / / / / /
>In the next round, he gets hit for 4 damage. He digests 4 HP Bites to absorb the damage, so he now has X X X X X / left from his Chowder.
>Then in the third round he gets hit for 3 damage. He digests his last HP Bite, bringing him to X X X X X X for his HP+1 Chowder, fully digesting it. The remaining 2 damage goes to his Player HP.
In this way, Food that grants HP acts as a source of temporary hit points. Sound good?
>>48164712
So how does Attack+X work?
Just adding damage? Adding to your roll?They're called 'Bytes' in game, for no real reason.
>>48161781
With it just being a line of spaces, I don't think it would be too much to ask. Either some on the back of the book or even just some squares on paper would work well enough.
>>48165673
It adds more dice to your attack pool. There could also be a +damage food bonus as well
>>48142166
Hey, sorry for being out for a while. This essentially sounds akin to what I was going for, with the exception being that I was having the GM roll Treble for attacks rather than have it be a set difficulty, but I like that that streamlines the process, and I'll adjust the Noise Report accordingly.
I actually think that there should be two different defense options: Guard, and Evade. Evade means that if you roll more successes than the difficulty (or, in the case of the Noise, if the difficulty is higher than the number of successes), then you take absolutely no damage. Guard works more as you described, with subtracting damage instead. This means that guard is the low-risk low-reward option, and evade the high-risk high-reward option.
>>48169571
I will add one one thing, though, for clarification: The Treble should be the number of successes required, rather than the TN.
Bump, again.
And another.
How would Live and Quake pins work within the measures?
"F" this thread
Post threads!
>captcha is storefronts
>>48173055
Here's my thinking on that.
Earthquake affects all Noise in the score, no matter what Measure they are in.
Street Jam affects all Noise in your Measure and in adjacent Measures.
Twister affects all Noise in your Measure.
That way we can differentiate between them a little bit better.
Work-out thoughts this morning, concerning the Light Puck.
As it stands right now in the Google Doc, the puck grants the following bonuses:
>+2 AP
>+Damage equal to your Trust in the passer. This damage is allowed to surpass your Damage Limit
>Bypass Taboo Noise damage reduction
What this is missing is some kind of escalating bonus that echoes the damage multiplier from the source game. Multipliers are generally bad, but what about this:
>The physical object that represents the light puck is infact a unique die passed from one player to another. In my mind it's a d6, which differentiates it from the d10s you use for rolling and for tracking Fusion.
>Each time the puck is passed, the d6 is increased by 1. It's value could mean one of two things:
>DICE BONUS: The player holding the light puck gets a supply of bonus dice he can add to his Attack or Defense rolls during his turn. So if the light puck die shows 3, he has 3 extra dice he can add to his pools throughout his turn. He can add them all to bolster a single attack, or spread them across his actions to make all of them a little better.
>SYNC BONUS: Holding the puck grants you a supply of temporary Sync equal to its value. Using this Sync doesn't subtract from your Sync pool, though it does increase your Soul. You can use this temporary Sync for anything, including adding dice, temporarily boosting a Skill or adding successes, as you would with normal Sync. Once the puck is passed, any unspent temporary Sync is forfeited
>Either way, if the puck is dropped due to a failed pass, the d6 reverts to 1 again.
Option 1 (Bonus Dice) is a lot simpler, while Option 2 (Bonus Sync) has more flexibility.
Thoughts?
>>48169571
For Players, that maps to using Protect:Rhythm to block and Protect:Flow to dodge.
However, I'm not sure it's necessarily a good bet either way because it makes guarding the all-around better choice. In both cases if you roll better than your opponent, you take 0 damage, but for guarding if you roll less you just take less damage, whereas for evade you take full damage.
Of course it's mitigated somewhat by build choice-- anyone can try and Guard using Protect:Rhythm whenever they want, but they may not be very good at it if your Rhythm is poor. Which, again makes sense because Rhythm means you're much more confrontational and can handle combat fights better, so it might be kinda balanced at least thematically.
In other words, evade may be a worse option, but for some people it may be their only option.
>>48174955
Atlernatively, Twister could Knock Up and Earthquake can Immobilize while it's active and can be active over multiple rounds.
>>48175554
I like Option 2, and we were also planning something with fusions with the puck too, I think. Passing between everyone once was level 1, twice for 2 etc.
>>48175707
You could also say Insight is for dodging too, and Bravery can also block.
>>48175707
Arguably, larger enemies both telegraph their attacks more and are slower, as well as dealing massive damage on hit, meaning that dodging is better for bigger enemies (more dice for size/speed) but worse for smaller enemies.
>>48175810
The way I see it, Insight can be used during the Player turn to grant another player extra defense dice by basically looking out for them in case they are attacked. It's kind of more of a leadership and party organization defense.
Protect: Bravery is throwing yourself in harms way. It works like Guard but for another Player, so you can potentially totally block all incoming damage against them, but at the cost of your own Noise Phase AP which might be needed to protect your own neck.
>>48175848
That's possible; we could add an effect rider to their attacks as "Burly" which means they have a lower difficulty to evade vs to block.
>>48175892
Alternately we could make that a trait of Noise that can attack with their Bass instead of their Treble, since that would be inherently slower.
Alright so here's an issue of terminology that I'm running through my head.
In combat, you're basically always dealing with Difficulty, and the number of successes you roll can have significant effects.
When you attack, you're taking your Successes and trying to beat a Noise's Bass score, and whatever Successes you get over that deal damage. So the formula is:
Attack Successes - Bass = Final Attack Successes
The reverse is the case for defending yourself:
Defense Successes - Treble = Final Defense Successes.
What I'm struggling with is the fact that we've got the term Successes thrown around so much that it's hard to tell exactly what we're talking about. Like when an attack says "2 per Success", does that mean if you roll 5 Successes vs a Noise defense of 2 you deal 10 damage (2x5) or 6 (2x3)? Knowing the system it's clear that the damage is 6, but it's not immediately apparent.
What about this:
In combat, a Player's Successes exceeding a Noise's attack or defense score are called HITS.
So when you attack it's:
[Player Successes] - [Noise Score] = Player Hits.
We'd use the same terminology for both attacking and defending, for the sake of simplicity.
And the attack might say "2 per Hit" or "3+Hits" for its damage.
That makes it clear that it's the Successes you get over the attack or defense score of the Noise that matter.
Does that make sense? Is it a good idea?
>>48175707
>However, I'm not sure it's necessarily a good bet either way because it makes guarding the all-around better choice. In both cases if you roll better than your opponent, you take 0 damage, but for guarding if you roll less you just take less damage, whereas for evade you take full damage.
This isn't correct, however. Let's say that a certain attack does Treble x2 attack, and the Noise in question has a Treble of 5, so a total of 10 damage. To successfully evade the attack, you would need 5 successes, while to nullify the attack via guarding, you would need 10 successes. The trade-off is that even if you get less than 5 successes, you will still shave off some damage.
>>48176479
Could this also implement the game's Positive/Negative psych designation? They attack the Noise's base or treble?
Actually that's getting way to complicated, lets not do that.
>>48176479
Not sure how well that's going to scale with damage as days go by. If someone is slinging 20 damage at you, it's going to be extremely hard to effectively guard against even half of that, whereas it would be comparatively easy to Evade.
>>48176044
Why not have Noise have one Defense stat which reduces damage by the amount shown? Bass 1 will reduce damage taken from attacks by 1, as such, having multi-hit pins will be weaker (1 damage less per success) and one hit wonders (say Massive Hit) damage them a bunch more because it's one hit, not several.
To balance this, multi-hit pins would do more damage to enemies with less defense, and can be used more often. We could even have pins or threads with piercing X, and it would ignore X defense.
Also, this way, defense down effects are easy to calculate. If it stacks, 1 per stack. If not, I dunno, half rounded up or something.
Don't forget, Noise don't really dodge attacks.
>>48176882
Multi-hitters can also spread damage, remember that.
>>48176932
Well yeah, making it better against groups. You could, in fact, have Flurry pins (and other combo pins with Range 0, pins that can't target multiple enemies) with Piercing as well, to overcome that.
>>48176882
I think that's frankly complicating things more than it has to.
If we go by the system that Archivist and I agree on, Bass gobbles up some or all of the Successes from your Attacks. Since Successes also determine damage, in part or in whole, it also means that Bass reduces the damage that the Noise takes.
For multi-hit attacks, the effect is pretty pronounced, because their damage is entirely dependent on their successes. So if you roll 5 Successes against a Noise and their Bass gobbles up 3 of them, you're only hitting for 2 Successes worth of damage.
On the other hand, single hit attacks have a greater advantage against high-defense Noise, because their Successes only modify the damage instead of fully inform it.
So let's say you get 5 Successes, and your attack Deals 3+Successes damage. If the Noise has a Bass of 4, you're dealing 4 damage, but if it has a Bass of 2, you're dealing 6 damage; moreover you can never deal less than 4 damage on a successful attack. So you're overall ability to damage high-defense noise is greater.
>>48176803
>Not sure how well that's going to scale with damage as days go by. If someone is slinging 20 damage at you, it's going to be extremely hard to effectively guard against even half of that, whereas it would be comparatively easy to Evade.
That would be the point. Guarding gives you a guaranteed reduction in damage, while evasion is high-risk, high-reward, since if you get a bad roll, you're hit for the full amount.
That said, I don't think that we should limit these to Protect: since that would favour those with Rhythm or Flow for reactions.
>>48177018
>That said, I don't think that we should limit these to Protect: since that would favour those with Rhythm or Flow for reactions.
How would you handle it? As it stands Protect:Insight and Protect:Bravery are mostly used for Players to defend each other, which I thought was a nice mechanic.
There will also of course be some Psychs that have defensive rolls, like the Barriers, but there are frankly very few of them. You could also use Teleport for defense as well, I'm sure.
>It's a /tg/ tries to design a homebrew thread
>actual fucking mechanics and design are getting discussed and produced, not just fluff
what fucking sorcery is this
>>48177008
Damage reduction is an incredibly simple system, and I think it's simpler than stealing successes. And having a pin that can always deal X damage regardless of the amount of successes you make seems incredibly broken for players who don't specialise in that resonance. Bravery 1 Roll uses Massive Hit to attack the enemy. No successes? 3 damage. Guaranteed. Roll also has Rounds, which is Rhythm, of which she has 4. Averaging 1-2 successes per roll, she'll also lose 1 success because it's a grizzly, meaning 0-1 damage. She can only deal up to 4 damage anyway with the Rounds per use, so why not stick with the sure 3 damage/use?
You should need at least 1 success to hit, but if that's taken away by Bass, then your massive hit fizzles. Damage Reduction is easier to work with, in my opinion. They can still hit, successes actually matter for Massive Hit and it's just easier to operate.
But that's just my opinion.
>>48177150
>Bravery 1 Roll uses Massive Hit to attack the enemy. No successes? 3 damage. Guaranteed.
An attack with no Successes after it's been gobbled by Bass is a failed attack and deals no damage.
This confusion is why I suggested here >>48176044 that we modify our terminology of what happens when you get a successful attack. Going by this, your Successes after Bass are registered as Hits, and Hits inform damage.
>>48177109
It's because the fluff in the source material is so strong and compelling that there's really not much else we can do on that front, so the focus is on getting the rules as solid as possible.
>>48177229
Yeah, but DR is easier to understand so you don't have to specify what does what. You don't need multiple terms to properly explain what happens. It's just "How much damage?" "5" "You deal 4 damage because of defense" and that's it.
I dunno. It's clear we don't see eye-to-eye on this, so I want to hear what other people have to say on the matter. I'd make a strawpoll, if I knew how to.
>>48177109
Shocking, isn't it? Making /tg/ great again, I guess?
>>48177320
Fair enough. For the record, with success-cancelling it would go down like this:
"How many Successes?" "5" "You get 4 Hits." and then the Player says how much damage that is based on what his Psych does. I don't think that's particularly onerous.
Moreover, I think that Success-cancelling is a more dynamic system because it approaches the core mechanics at a more fundamental level, and it would be easy to balance. The problem with pure DR is that it means DR and HP both need to keep up with damage scaling in order to grant Noise lifespans appropriate to their intended threat level, which makes it harder for the devs (us) to work out.
As the GM, we should be able to get a general idea as to the range of dice that a player is likely to be rolling at a given time, which means it should not be too difficulty work out what kind of Bass Noise should have at various points on the difficulty vs time curve. I'm not saying we do right now, but that seems a feasible assertion to make.
On the other hand, if Noise defense is based on Damage Reduction, we need to keep a close eye not only on the number of dice being rolled but also the gross damage resulting from those dice along two variables-- DR and HP, so as I see it it's giving us double the workload. It also makes both numbers messier; with Bass right now we're operating under the idea that it's mostly going to be on the same scale as player Stats, meaning most Noise even at high levels shouldn't have a Bass higher than 10, and that's an extreme case. On the other hand with DR then we'd need to have Bass scaled with damage output, so the numbers will be a lot higher and harder to come up with.
Regarding Defense, there's another idea I had as well that could broaden a character's ability to defend himself.
>Psych Defense
Normally an Attacking Psych is only used to damage Noise, but it's possible to bend their functions to defense as well.
To do this, you roll Psych:Stat but significantly you CAN'T use the Stat that the Psych is Resonant in. This represents using the Psych in a way that it's not intended. The Successes from this can be used as defense against Noise attacks.
Each time you use a Psych in this fashion it costs 1 Use, and costs 1 AP in the Noise Phase. Defending against Multiple Noise costs 1 Use and AP per Noise, so it's pretty easy to exhaust your Psychs doing this-- but in certain situations it may be preferable to taking damage.
When you use a Psych Defense, you're encouraged to describe how you twist its effect to benefit you. Like if you have Energy Rounds, you can roll Insight instead of Rhythm to describe how you fire a precise shot that repels a Grizzly's claw, or if you have Frostbite you can roll Flow instead of Insight to describe how you turn the ground into an ice slick that causes the Noise's attack to miss you.
I added a little bit to the Roll Mechanics section that should help us keep our dice under control:
>Bonus Dice
>Under certain circumstances, you can add additional dice to your pool to increase your chances of scoring Successes. These are called Bonus Dice. Using Bonus Dice can result in rolling extremely large dice pools, but only to a limit.
>The most dice you can ever roll at once is double the Stat you are using. So if a player is using his Rhythm Stat of 4, he would normally roll 4 dice, but he’s allowed to earn Bonus Dice to bring his dice pool up to 8. Unless he increases his Rhythm, that’s the most dice he’s ever allowed to roll using that Stat.
With this system it's possible to roll as many as 20 d10 at once, but that's highly unlikely as it would mean spending a lot of sync and digesting a ton of food at once.
Also, I'm really not TRYING to dominate the discussion here, it's just that I'm available and I've got ideas that I want to flesh out and I believe in this project and want it to come together.
>>48177077
I suppose that that's fair. My concern is that 1) this limits strategic options for players if they can't choose whether to guard or evade, and 2) this will put emphasis on levelling up protect over other skills since those aren't as relevant in combat. Perhaps we could have a generic guard/evade option, which is rolled by one's highest stat under the difficulty of said fight, with Protect and defensive/evasive psychs having better performance than the default actions. Say that you're a Insight-Bravery player, and no one else around can defend you. You can still attempt a basic guard or evasion, even if the chances of success or damage reduced is lower than they would be otherwise.
Mostly, I don't want to see everyone having maxed out protect whether it fits their character or not, simply because it's essential to combat.
>>48178652
Sounds good to me. Also, don't worry about "dominating" -- you've done an excellent job of putting out a great deal more content than most of us can attest to. Since I realised that many of my earlier ideas don't fit a lighter system such as this, I've attempted to suggest less.
>>48177922
This is good.
>>48177478
Perhaps we could alter the idea of evade and guard to fit with these successes. Namely: with guard, you can block most of the damage, but you will receive at least one success worth of damage, no matter how powerful your guard is.
>>48179481
>Since I realised that many of my earlier ideas don't fit a lighter system such as this, I've attempted to suggest less.
I still appreciate your input, especially on the Noise front. I actually like crunchy systems, but TWEWY really demands a system that is fast, and generally fast means light. I do believe there's room for crunch though, hence the fairly deep Trust mechanics which I really want to flesh out.
>>48179413
I definitely see where this is coming from, and I agree, which is why I think the Psych Defense system could be a good solution. Fact is that some characters may be built better for attack than personal defense via his Stats and Skills, but Psych Defense kind of makes up for that.
The reason I see it this way is that someone built for around a specific Stat can rank up a Psych from a DIFFERENT Stat and used that as a defense, since he can just roll his dominant stat with it. It's not a perfect out, because Pins have limited uses and reboots, but it will bolster his ability to protect himself.
Oh, one quick thought I had:
I thought about renaming the "Damage Limit" Stat on Psychs to "Crescendo" because I thought it would be cooler to read and also be coherent with the musical themes of the game. Think that's a bridge too far with the naming conventions in this game?
>>48153411
>if you tell us what's wrong
>>48153411
Seemed pretty clear to me.
1. Incorporating all mechanics from a video game to a tabletop is utter folly. The mediums are inherently different, and so are the needs of the product.
2. A base mechanic isn't a system.
3. Ideas do not constitute work done.
Only the first one was a criticism of the project, the second post basically just criticized the OP.
>>48180226
>Incorporating all mechanics from a video game to a tabletop is utter folly. The mediums are inherently different, and so are the needs of the product.
Obviously. We've already made sweeping changes to the way that mechanics work here vs on the original platform. One of the biggest changes we made is that in the DS game, the two player characters existed in separate locations during the fight. In the first thread it was a major discussion as to whether we should preserve that mechanic and it was decided that it didn't fit the platform, so we moved to a system where the players all share the same battlefield.
There have been many, many adjustments like that. Implicit in incorporating mechanics is adapting them to the medium, which we've done.
The OP needs to be updated for the next thread to be more representative of the work that we've done in many respects. It's much more now than just a loose collection of ideas.
with that I'm off for today. I'll be around sporadically over the weekend.
>>48179604
I still think that a basic guard/evade action should be available to everyone, which can then be supplemented with Protect or defensive pins. I'm in favour of the defensive pin idea -- I like the idea of having both pins meant for defensive actions (barriers, teleport) and pins being repurposed for defence with the player describing how.
So, do these general definitions of guard and evade sound good to you?
Guard: For each success on your guard, nullify one success of the enemy attack, to a minimum of one enemy success (assuming the enemy has at least one success).
Evade: If you exceed the number of enemy successes, you take no damage from the attack. If you match or fall below the number of enemy successes, you take all damage. Or should you succeed if you match?
I'll rewrite the Noise Report in accordance with the new, roll-less mechanics, and update the costs/behaviours and so on accordingly. I'll also work on stating more Noise this weekend now that I vaguely have an idea, though I'm still waiting for a playtest to confirm. Which we should do soonish.
>>48179775
Hm, "Crescendo" means that it's growing louder in musical terms. I'm not quite sure that I would analogise it with a damage limit. Oh, a thought: We can refer to a pin's finisher as its "coda".
>>48182964
Honestly, I like crescendo more as the name for the combo finisher, but I agree that it would make things too obtuse. We would be swapping out a word that everyone would probably figure out what it meant, to something we would definitely have to describe in the rules. Then everyone would call it a combo finisher anyway.
>>48183100
Agreed. Let's keep things the way they are and say the things we mean. Major gameplay mechanics shouldn't be overly obscured by thematics. That way leads to peril. Thanks for the feedback.
>>48182964
What would the roll be for a basic guard or evade? The idea of protect was to provide that mechanic.
>>48183426
I take issue with any particular skill being of use in combat above all other skills instead of having a niche use, because invariably people will take it or pressure others to take it in order to be more viable in combat, ESPECIALLY given the communal HP.
Instead, I was simply going to suggest that the player can choose what skill or stat to roll, provided that they can offer an explanation. For example: "Quickly, I Think:Insight to predict the wolf's path, and use my centre of gravity to guard against its charge." or "With Move:Flow, I duck and weave between the bubbles sprayed by the oncoming frog."
Okay I see what you're saying now and I agree. So far we've drawn pretty distinct lines between combat and non combat and having protect be the only skill that bridges that gap is too asymmetrical.
That said I think we need a more codified way of handling defense otherwise people will just roll their best skill with thei best stay and come up with any old excuse for why it works. Which is okay I guess but I'm of the mind that combat should be a bit more rule-bases than that. Surely there must be a middle ground.
>>48184364
That's fair and understandable. Hm, perhaps we incorporate guard and evade as part of one's player pin, which can be upgraded?
>>48186660
And another. Perhaps we could arrange a combat playtest this weekend.
>>48184364
Perhaps we could apply a MAID RPG style for defense. Explain what you're doing, and with what skill:stat, and the GM decides whether it'll be effective. For example, Think:Insight would be better for avoiding slow, big hits, but Move:Flow would be more of an instinctual dodge and would work better against faster opponents. Attack:Rhythm shoves smaller enemies away, and Attack:Bravery shoulder-charges huge guys back, forcing them to spend more AP to move and attack. These are just examples, but it would be based on their creativity. The difficulty would be entirely based on the DM's choices.
... And I just realised that Archivist has already mentioned that... Well, guess I'm all for that.
>>48188306
Depends. My timezones are different to yours. I may be working or sleeping. If I can, I will.
>>48183100
Crescendo could be the fusion pin's name.
>>48185468
I was actually thinking something along those lines this morning, re: the Intrinsic Psych.
Let's say that the I.P. uses one of your Tags for attack and one for defense. So in the character sheet I posted earlier, Jazz would use Musician with Magic Fingers for attack and Orphan for 10 Years, which makes her evasive, for defense.
One bump before bed.
>>48189612
I'm not opposed to this kind of freeform combat specifically, but I don't think it fits very well juxtaposed with our attack system, which is highly codified and rules bound. It doesn't make sense that we have all these very specific rules for attacks, yet defense is all improve and GM judgement.
Also possible: I don't know if all Saikoro Fiction games do it like this(I assume something at least similar though), but when an enemy attacks in the Kantai RPG(It's bad, so, so bad) each one has a listed trait that you defend with. Considering the list of traits in that game it works out weird sometimes(Maintainance? Sure I guess.I defend against cannonfire with my Mysterious Personality?) but something similar might work out well in avoiding "one skill to rule them all".
>>48192997
So guard and evade being tied to one's player pin is a no-go?
>>48192997
Perhaps different skills for different stats? Think for Insight seems to be the popular choice, and Move for Flow. Maybe Sense for Flow, as it could be seen as an intuition, as opposed to consciously reacting, and you could give Move to Bravery. And obviously, Rhythm gets Handle as they fight back against the attack with brute force.
>>48194597
See my post here.>>48190131 I'm actually in favor of attack and defense being components of the intrinsic psych by way of different Tags.
>>48194723
Oh, my goodness, I'm not sure how I missed that post. What do you mean, in this case, by using it for attack? You mean the intrinsic attack that one can use regardless of whether one's pins have booted? Yes. I like that. I also think that players should be able to switch which Tag they use for combat, perhaps during the "cooldown" after the task is complete.
I like the idea of using Tags, though I think that said Tag should be usable for either guard or evade and the player decides which to do on the fly.
>>48194782
>I like the idea of using Tags, though I think that said Tag should be usable for either guard or evade and the player decides which to do on the fly.
I can live with that.
I'll modify the Intrinsic Psych form on Monday to include fields for two tags-- one for attack and one for defense.
Sultry evening bump
>>48195761
Wonderful, glad we got things worked out. Now on to changing around Noise to fit!
>>48195761
Actually, here's a question before I can re-balance Noise: what's the typical number of successes we expect from a day one player, and the typical number of successes we expect from an endgame player?
>>48200685
And another.
A third. I suppose the better question is, "at what rank will skills/stats/pins begin"?
>>48203024
Our idea was to give the initial starting Pins at Rank 4, but have brand-new Pins start at Rank 1.
Skills and Stats have their starting values laid out in the Google Doc under character creation.
>>48203062
Ah, I see. What are the expected endgame stats? I wasn't aware that we had already decided on character creation. Wonderful, I'll start some probability analysis tomorrow morning.
Stats probably go to 10. That seems good.
One more bump
>>48207613
Should have said Three Minutes Bumping.
>>48207830
What happened to doing Dragon Couture pins?
>>48208129
They're no longer trending in this area.
So my priority this coming week is going to be adding more Mag-0 pins and fleshing out the skill system so that it's fully usable.
>>48205569
Right, but what's the expectation for players to reasonably reach? I suppose I should stat Noise so that the Another Day Noise will be the "goes to 10".
>>48198714
Day one, 1-2 successes. Day seven, with a rank 7 pin (if they keep the same pin and level it up) then roughly 7 successes from 10 dice (1 per day). If it's another pin at Rank 4, then 4 dice. Either way, max 10.
>>48207830
>Not "One Thread Bumping
Have we yet used the Game Over lyrics? That's about 2chan, and that's kinda the same.
>>48210231
Hm, all right. I'll do some brainstorming.
Just discovered this, it seems pretty cool so far. PDF when? I want to show my friends but they're pretty casual and one has a distaste for google doc type deals for rules.
>>48212359
I'll work on putting what we have into a PDF this coming week, since I have access to PDF software. Getting that together should be a major leap towards making this fundamentally playable.
>>48213163
That's awesome to hear! You have my full support, because the more I read about this the more I like it.
>>48213951
I'm kind of a format wonk so I'm looking forward to it.
Not really a mechanical question, but psychs can be "channelled" through whatever you want, right?
Was thinking of a pure lapin angelique character who uses a parasol/umbrella as a weapon
>>48217529
The parasol would be the medium in that case.
Wow, board's fast today
Let's make some characters, just for the hell of it
Also, if we have any would-be drawfriends, why not try your hand at designing some threads/pins?
>>48220504
Sure, I'll make a character. Give me a bit to do so.
>>48220504
Tomorrow. Sleep tonight.
>>48217529
Follow-up, can an intrinsic psych be of any type, or are there xertain psychs it can/can't be?
I was thinking a barrier psych, though i'm not sure which one
>>48221771
*certain
It's late, sorry
>>48221771
I'd imagine the only ones it can't be are limited use, pins that can't be used (motherlode, etc) and instant kill pins.
>>48221771
>>48222844
Kind of, but not really.
The idea behind Intrinsic Psychs is that they are the most basic Psychs that a player has access to, but because they arise from his own persona they aren't limited by the Psych-structures that already exist in the UG. Generally the Intrinsic Psych would be the first Psych that a Player learns to use when he enters the UG, before he gets any other Psychs.
As such, an Intrinsic Psych wouldn't be classified as "Shockwave" or "Dark Barrier". For attacks, it has one of two behaviors:
>Range 1, 1 Damage per Hit
>Range 0, 2 Damage per Hit
And its defense is just as simple: you choose to either Evade or Block, and your Successes affect the Noise's attack different based on that choice.
The gimmick is that you get to describe how your Intrinsic Psych works as freely as you want. As an example see this post here: >>48161046
So you could create an Intrinsic Psych stylized as a barrier. It wouldn't have all the qualities and effects of Aqua/Flame/Dark Barrier (which we haven't stated out yet), but you could describe it as that. Since it's primarily defensive, you'd want to bond its Defensive ranks to your strongest tag, and its Offensive ranks to one of your weaker ones (see this post: >>48190131)
Here's a revised template for Intrinsic Psychs.
Note that it has separate Ranks for Attack and Defend, which makes it stand out from standard Pins. An I.P.'s Attack and Defend Ranks are each bonded to one of its Player's Tags, which the player notes under the "Bonds" section. As those Tags increase in Rank, so too do the Ranks of their I.P.'s Attack and Defend capacity.
>>48223447
>Generally the Intrinsic Psych would be the first Psych that a Player learns to use when he enters the UG, before he gets any other Psychs.
Yes, and the reason I said it wouldn't be the ones I mentioned is because two of them don't actually fight anything (healing and no effect) and the other immediately destroys noise. All of which wouldn't be very good Intrinsic Pins, unless you can make more by breaking down a different pin at a higher mag or something. Like fusion, but with your soul. Might explain Joshua's Jesus Beams to people so it's not spoiled, if we take from the original game.
>>48224084
Joshua's abilities are well-outside that of a normal Player; the Secret Reports clearly say that while he's had to down-tune his frequency from that of the Higher Planes where he normally hangs, which results in him losing a significant amount of power, he still possesses abilities beyond what normal Players have. He's an edge case for many reasons (isn't dead, isn't an actual Player, doesn't use Psychs, etc...).
>>48224194
I specifically said so it wasn't spoiled, for people who haven't played the games.
>>48224299
Hah, my bad. Wish I could edit posts!
>>48224314
Not a problem, just wanted to make sure you had realised. Still, what do you think of burning pins and (whatever we use for pin fusion (sync?)) to make more intrinsic pins of different types?
>>48224380
My thought is that it's not necessary. The idea for Intrinsic Psychs is that they always give a Player the option to act. If all of his Attacking Psychs are on reboot, he's not forced to take on a passive role during his turn-- he can still attack. And it gives us a way to codify defense in the same fashion as attack. But between a Player's Intrinsic Psych and his collection of Pins, he should have everything he needs to be effective in combat.
>>48224405
Fair enough.
New idea then. Evasion and blocking are the same thing, but flavoured differently. I can't remember if we were already planning to do that or not with the IPs, but I thought I'd bring it up as a suggestion if we were still deciding.
>>48224606
That's honestly my preference as well; Archivist has posted strongly in favor of giving distinct mechanics for evasion and blocking.
BTW I'm starting to work on turning the google doc into a PDF; is there a specific name/psuedonym you'd like me to add to it? Same goes for Archivist.
>>48224655
I suppose, if we're keeping the musical theme going, Jazz or Jazzman is my preferred pseudonym.
>>48224799
Alright. Let me know if you want me to add a different pseudonym (like I'm using).
Cover and Credits page. I should probably phrase the credits page better.
>>48224924
Very nice.
Now all we need to do is fill everything in.
Here's the basic structure I think:
1. Game concept and themes, brief introduction to the setting
2. Roll Mechanics
3. Building your Character
4. Combat Rules
5. Skill Rules
6. Soul-Sync
7. Psychs
8. Threads and Brands
9. Food
10. Appendices
>Psycholopedia
>Pin Catalog
>Noise Report
>Thread Count
>Food Court
We've got a lot of this stuff already figured out and I can pull it direct from the Google Doc.
Do we agree?
Here's the write-up for the resolution mechanic, copied mostly from the Google Doc. It fits quite nicely onto one page. Any suggestions for what to add or take away?
Some minor modifications (added example for Bonus Dice and a potential list of Difficulty levels)
Bump
Working right now on a fill-able Intrinsic Psych Pin. I'll provide instructions for that as well so that folks like >>48220545 and >>48220906
can whip up characters complete with I.P.s
Here's a page of Fillable Intrinsic Psychs
Here's how you make an Intrinsic Psych:
First you need to create a character. The instructions to do so are at this link:
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/15kJXvBVinsbst0tMWmzwaUj5ddk0hotd3nifw3Hs720/edit#
And the character sheet is found at this post:
>>48142187
Once you've got your character sheet figured out, choose one of his or her Tags as the Intrinsic Psych's Attack Bond and another as its Defense Bond. These grant their Ranks to the I.P.'s Attack and Defend options.
From there, figure out the Psych's Name and Resonance (it will usually be your highest Stat). For Range and damage you have two options:
>Range 0, 2 Damage per Hit
>Range 1, 1 Damage per Hit
So you can make your Intrinsic Psych a stronger melee attack or a weaker ranged attack. The Target is always 1.
Don't worry about Damage Limit, Combo or Finisher Yet.
Magnitude is 0, since it's your first pin.
Finally, fill in the Style and Description box. This is where you describe what your Intrinsic Psych looks like and how it works.
Here's an example in the form of Killer 88, based on the character I made here: >>48161046
Unfortunately as of right now there's no way to add pin images to the PDF. I'm working on a good way to do that still.
>>48226341
If we have extended actions(If we do, I missed that conversation), those probably need to be added. Outside of that, it looks fine to me.
>>48228143
Can you elaborate? Not sure what you mean by extended actions.
>>48228174
Functionally speaking, it's just making more checks to do something because it takes much longer so there's a chance to screw up halfway. The usual example is a chase scene, where each check represents... say, 1 minute of running or something. The concept is super codified already, but if we have it at all, it's probably a good idea to mention it. I didn't see a mention of it anywhere before, but I thought it should be brought up just in case.
>>48228292
Ah, I see. Yes that works. Extended Actions might require accumulating a certain number of successes within a certain deadline. Yes I'll definitely add that. Good call!
I'll add that to the doc tomorrow, I'm off for tonight. Good evening folks.
Long live the bump
Bumping and shilling
Seeing this reminded me of a local company (or, at the very least, a company whose warehouse is local) who does TWEWY pins as actual pins. Link here: levelupstudios.com/featured-products/buttons
Dunno if people would be interested, especially when running the game IRL, but I figured I'd give a shout-out if you haven't seen it before.
>>48228335
Savage Worlds has an interesting way of doing things like that, they call them dramatic tasks. Basically you have 5 turns to make 5 rolls, and get 5 or more total successes or the dramatic task fails. It's used for big plot important events like bomb defusal and such, though in all reality it's not too hard to achieve so I use it for more mundane things in my game like characters building things or training.
That is quite awesome! The other pins they have would also make excellent fodder for Intrinsic Psychs.
>>48231528
Those are my thoughts exactly. I use mechanics like that all the time playing Wild Talents, and the successes system in this game will suit that perfectly
Threads full of bumps
...I mean hope.
You might find yourself looking at an indigenous tribe in Mesoamerica that still uses pack mules, and you might think "Why would they do this? There are more modern alternatives! Do they just not know better or are they just stubborn contrarians?"
Likewise, one might see one of the myriad attempts to reinvent the wheel by making a videogame a tabletop rpg, whether it's pokemon, digimon, TES, or this.
That same person might wonder "Why would people do this? There are more modern alternatives, especially when the game is available on both ios and android, and even the original is still widely available! Do they just not know better or are they just stubborn contrarians?"
>>48234810
And you may find yourself
Living in a shotgun shack
And you may find yourself
In another part of the world
And you may find yourself
Behind the wheel of a large automobile
And you may find yourself in a beautiful house
With a beautiful wife
And you may ask yourself, "well
How did I get here?"
And you may ask yourself
"How do I work this?"
And you may ask yourself
"Where is that large automobile?"
And you may tell yourself
"This is not my beautiful house!"
And you may tell yourself
"This is not my beautiful wife!"
And you may ask yourself
"What is that beautiful house?"
And you may ask yourself
"Where does that highway go to?"
And you may ask yourself
"Am I right? Am I wrong?"
And you may say to yourself, "Why am I such a fucking faggot holy shit?"
Have we discussed damage limits on Intrinsic Pins? I'm guessing up to 6 for 2 damage 0 range pins, and 4 for 1 damage 1 range pins.
Also, I can't save the fillable text documents with anything I put in. It only saves as a blank sheet.
The majority are still asleep
They're tired of those dreadful dreams
So let me bump and wake you up
Let me wake you up
>>4823>Have we discussed damage limits on Intrinsic Pins? I'm guessing up to 6 for 2 damage 0 range pins, and 4 for 1 damage 1 range pins.
Seems reasonable to me.
>Also, I can't save the fillable text documents with anything I put in. It only saves as a blank sheet.
I'll see what I can do to find a better way of working with that. Have you tried printing the filled document as a PDF?
>>48239499
My bad, that was supposed to be for this post:
>>48236932
>>48239499
>Have you tried printing the filled document as a PDF?
That seemed to do it. It didn't before. Might have been issues on my end. Sorry about the trouble.
In other news, I guess I'll post a character soon.
>>48239555
And here it is.
I'm thinking her IP is going to use her entry fee for attack.
>>48239680
Looks great! Her Stats and Skills are very telling, especially the single Rank in Think.
So since her Entry Fee is her Passion for Fun and Joy, how does that affect her personality?
>>48239963
Usually, she'd be actively looking for fun things, like going to her parties, or going to, for example, hip-hop dance classes or martial arts lessons to burn off energy and have a good time. Now that she's lost that passion for fun, she would no longer do those things for fun. She might do it instead specifically because it's exercise, or quit altogether.
I'd imagine that, in place of her entry fee, she's probably far more aggressive and probably more nervous, as she still has the high energy from before the reaper's game.
She's still quite brave (some ravers wear revealing clothes so they can move easier) which is why she has such high bravery, and I thought of her as someone who has a decent-paying job, as her personality would be very forceful. Without her fee, she'd be still very much a forceful person, but she'd be more grating, and less willing to dance around issues. "Her way or the highway" is how I'd explain it.
I think she can still be happy, or extract happiness from doing things, but she'd be far more focused on doing what she needs to, to survive, rather than goofing around.
I guess I created her because I want a character who can push the plot if it gets stuck. Sometimes players end up stuck at a crossroads of what to do, and I want something to give them a push.
>>48239613
What exactly do you want it to do ?
>>48240188
Actualy I figured it out!
Gentlemen, this is very important. Take a look at Pages 2 and 3 of the System document.
I've added two Charts. One chart shows the odds% of scoring at least 1 Success a dicepool of X size using a skill or whatever at Y Rank.
The second chart shows the average number of successes you can expect from a dice pool of a given size at a given Rank.
This is going to be extremely, extremely helpful for our development. It's our Rosetta Stone.
>>48240174
I like that, I like that a lot, especially with the raver mentality. Like she still WANTS to be that person, but her Entry Fee takes away her ability to freely adopt that personality. Instead she's having to force herself to conform to what she thinks she's supposed to be, and she's not happy about it.
It's an excellent concept for a character whose Entry Fee is her highest ranked Tag.
>>48240393
I'm glad you like it.
>>48240312
That is going to be incredibly helpful. It can tell us the difficulty of certain actions quickly.
>>48240560
That's my hope!
So what we're seeing here is that our concept for a starting character having 4 in a Stat and using a Rank 4 Pin, which they will likely be doing at the very start of the 1st day, they'll have an 87% chance of getting at least 1 Success on their attacks and they will most likely get at least 2 Successes each time they roll. Naturally their actual range of success swings between 0 and 4, if their pool is unmodified, and potentially between 0-8 since a Player can raise his dice pool up to 2x his Stat with Sync, Food and Threads.
On the whole I feel quite comfortable with these numbers.
>>48240641
Should we limit the maximum bonus dice? The max we have naturally is 20, but do we want that to be a smaller number?
>>48240889
Potentially; the limit I wrote in was something I thought was a fair starting point but we can mess around with it from there. It should definitely be higher than 10, to give guys with Maxed stats an incentive to add to their pools, so even 13-15 would work.
I uploaded the Charts to a new Google Doc which is linked in the main document for all to see.
>>48240924
I was thinking 15 too, yeah.
>>48240312
What's interesting about that chart is that you see the diminishing returns for large amounts of dice/skill. So while you get the most returns on chance by running a perfectly evened out character, it's not optimal. Math is weird.
>>48241996
Specifically, diminishing returns set-in for % to Succeed, but as you go up the # of Successes go up quite rapidly, to the point where at 9 and 10 die you get 1 additional Success per Rank (though there's very little difference in that regard between Stat 9 and 10).
>>48241996
BTW SBM, what name/psuedonym would you like me to use to add you to the credits page?
I'm starting to work on another Pin tab, covering the three Core types.
Starting to get this PDF creation process down to a science.
Question: we're still not quite settled on if Piercing Pillar should be an Insight or Rhythm Psych.
Here's the logic behind both:
>Insight
>It was initially categorized as Insight because it's a single, precision attack targeted at a point in space instead of directly at an enemy the way that most other Psychs work, which fits the qualifications for Insight.
>Rhythm
>I see it more as a quick, violent upswing (slash) powerful enough to throw targets into the air.
I also compiled all of the current complete Mag-0 Pins into one document, attached. All of the fields have been removed to show that this is finalized; I also removed the Rank selection boxes from this since it's meant more for display and print purposes than for on-screen play.
Finally, I updated the wording on this to replace "Successes" with "Hits" where appropriate, to show that they represent Successes-over-Noise defense.
With that in mind, is the meaning behind Pyrokinesis clear?
The idea is, let's say, you roll against two Noise, and you get 4 Successes. You can choose to throw 1 of those Successes at one Noise and 3 at another, or split them 2 and 2, etc... This means that if you know a particular Noise has a higher defense than another, you can focus your Successes against that particular Noise to ensure that you damage it.
Does the Effect-as-written for Pyrokinesis describe what I just wrote? Or should it be more explicitly explained?
Oh and I added an effect for Shockwave where if you land at least 2 Hits per use you can knock-back an enemy, since otherwise it's no different from the effect of an melee Intrinsic Psych. The Finisher effect has been modified to increasing the knockback and dealing some extra damage.
Alright I'm off for now. I may pop in later tonight.
Gimme dat bump
One more thing:
I think I figured out the defense problem. Thank you shower thoughts.
When a Player is attacked, he has three options. He can take the hit, or perform one of two defensive actions: an Intrinsic Defense and a Psych Defense.
An Intrinsic Defense uses his Intrinsic Psych It's an all-or-nothing action. If his Successes are equal to or more than the Noise's attack power, then he takes no damage. If he falls short, then he takes full damage. The advantage is that a Player can always perform an Intrinsic Defense, since his Intrinsic Psych never reboots.
A Psych Defense uses one of his Psychs as I described here: >>48177922. The Successes from a Psych Defense subtract from the Noise's attack power. If that power is reduced to 0, the Player takes no damage but if not he still takes less damage than if he had not defended himself.
Ergo, Psych Defense is a more powerful defensive option but there's a trade-off. Each time you use a Psych Defense you're draining one Use from that Pin, and Pins on reboot can't be used. Moreover, as I stipulated earlier, when you use a Psych Defense you have to use a Stat OTHER than the one the Psych is normally Resonant with.
So in summary:
>Two kinds of Defense
>Intrinsic Defense: all-or-nothing
>Roll your Intrinsic Psych's Defend ability
>If you beat the Noise's attack, you take 0 damage
>If you don't beat it, you take full damage
>You can always use an Intrinsic Defense
>Psych Defense: threat reduction
>Roll one of your Pins using a Stat other than its Resonance
>Successes subtract from Noise attack
>Even if you don't cancel it entirely, you still take less damage
>Psych Defense consumes Pin Uses
How's that sound?
Creepy weepy bump
>>48241996
>>48241315
Someone asked for a code to run on anydice...
Just change the line: "DICE: 5" to whatever amount of dice you want to roll and it will show you the chances for # of successes at each difficulty
http://anydice.com/program/8d50
btw...you first chart has the right values. but your average number of success chart is not very precise, check the mean values in the summary table to get more precise ones
>>48245604
>With that in mind, is the meaning behind Pyrokinesis clear?
Yes, it's clear but I would change the text from "against each" to "to each", as "distributing against" doesn't sound very neat (about this last part I'm not very sure, english is not my mother language)...
If you guys have any problems with specific math/mechanics just ask at /gdg/ and I will try to help
Alright, i have a challenge for you
Create a small party's worth of characters
Optional: have at least one be brand themed; determine how at least two would interact
Hard mode: have all of them be based around a different brand
>>48253327
Requirement: 2-4 characters
F this thread
"F" for Fabulous!
>>48253327
I'll take that challenge, I guess. I'll be back soon.
>>48249653
>Anydice code
Interesting.
So from the looks of things my 2nd chart is MOSTLY correct, just not exactly correct. I more or less rounded the numbers because I figured most Players wouldn't care about 2.70 Successes, so instead I put 3 Successes because it was more likely that you'd receive 3 Successes than 2. It's not precise but I'd prefer usability over absolute precision.
But I'll use this to double check my numbers, since it seems like I was off on a few rows.
>>48253327
>>48255678
I'm on board with this too.
I don't think that Bravery should be the healing stat. People who aren't confident in fighting are usually the support and healers. Similarly, people who are busy attacking are usually not focused on health because they're pushing the offensive.
I believe healing pins should be Insight, as it's based on assessing the situation and choosing the best time to heal up.
Updated the System document per >>48249653 with a revised #Success chart. I still rounded the Successes down or up accordingly, but the adjustments to the formula did a nice job at smoothing out the curve in a few places. Thanks for the insight!
>>48257081
In the interests of Psych balance, I'd prefer to move Healing from Bravery to Flow if anything, since Bravery and Insight already have the most Psychs and Pins.
I think there's an argument to be made for Flow as well since Healing is about keeping your stride and not slowing down when there's heat all about. But your idea isn't wrong either...
Maybe the Cure Drink Psych, which heals you a lot but takes forever, uses Insight while the Healing Psych, which heals you for less but can be done on the fly, is Flow. Does that make sense?
>>48257150
I'm cool with that. My main point was that it probably shouldn't be Bravery.
>>48253327
So I have 2 characters made. One for NP, the other for WB. Which would you like first?
>>48257243
NP.
I'm working on a Pegaso character.
Hey guys, newcomer here. Could you explain the character creation system you've got going so I can try my hand at it?
>>48257286
Awesome!
It's quite simple. Name, Age, Sex and Concept are clear cut.
All characters have 4 Stats: Rhythm, Flow, Insight and Bravery. These basically define the aspects of your personality and how you view the world.
>Rhythm: Direct, uncomplicated, grounded, relentless
>Flow: Indirect, creative, sly, smooth
>Insight: Precise, perceptive, intelligent, patient
>Bravery: Brash, inspiring, confident, all-out
Stats start at 1. You get 7 points at character creation, and no Stat can exceed 4.
Skills
>Speak: Communicate with others
>Fight: Deal with people using physical force
>Protect: Protect yourself or others from harm
>Think: Use your head to solve problems
>Sense: Your perception of people and things
>Move: How well you traverse the space around you
>Express: How you express yourself creatively
>Handle: Your ability to manipulate tools and physical matter
>Endure: How well you put up with physical or mental trauma
Each Skill starts at 1. You get 15 points to add to them. No Skill can exceed 4 at character creation.
Finally there are your Tags. Tags are aspect of your character's background and personality which can be invoked under certain circumstances.
All players have either 2 or 3 Tags. One tag MUST be their Entry Fee, which is something taken from them to allow them to compete in the Reapers' Game. It could be material, like a precious possession, or it could be immaterial, like your memories.
Your Tags start at Ranks 4, 3 and 2. If you choose to go with only 2 Tags, then you drop the Rank 2. These tell you what is most important in your life. You can be as creative as you want to be with regards to Tags, as they help flesh out your character and explain what drives them and what they live for.
Don't worry about anything else right now. Those are the only fields you need to fill to create a character.
>>48257249
Here's my Pegaso character, Luc LeBlanc. He's your Arsene Lupin thief/con-artist type. His Entry Fee is the Ultimate Score-- he finally got what he was after after a decade of criminality, only to have it snatched away at the moment of his death in the RG.
>>48257552
Here's Leah. Originally, she was a super confident nurse in training. That all changed when the fir- I mean, she died.
I based her on what I imagine her design would be from NP. Casual and relaxed, nothing too outrageous.
>>48257753
Please tell me she uses, like, a giant syringe as her Intrinsic Psych.
>>48247553
BTW any thoughts about this idea? I think it's the solution to our Defense woes.
>>48258284
I like it, though I imagine Teleport pins just give you a get-out-of-trouble free card if you succeed.
>>48257817
Suddenly Compa.
>>48258446
Of course; certain Pins are DESIGNED with defensive traits in mind, but there are far fewer of them then there are offensive pins. You've pretty much got your Teleport and Invisibility Pins, and your Barrier Pins and that's pretty much it.
>Suddenly Compa.
Not sure if I get that reference.
>>48258474
>Not sure if I get that reference.
I thought you were talking about a Hyperdimension Neptunia character.
hyperdimensionneptunia.wikia.com/wiki/Compa
>>48258563
Nope, I can honestly say that I've never played a Neptunia game. It just seems like the logical thing.
Is there anything else I should add to the System write-up (>>48257106)
before I move on to something else? Since we're getting a lot of character building happening now I want to draft up proper character building rules.
>>48258616
I can't see anything else that needs to be added, but I don't know what other people think.
But anyway, I'll be off.
>>48258734
Alright, have a good night. I'll hammer out the Character Building rules and post them here.
>>48258474
>certain Pins are DESIGNED with defensive traits in mind
Should there be a line on the pin sheet for these effects?
>>48258843
I figure that would be in the Effects field, like with the Cure Drink Psych.
If anyone wants to work on an Introduction to TWEWY that I can add to the main document that would be great. Just a page or two about what the game is and what the game is about.
>>48257552
>>48257753
Well done, you two
The barrier has been lowered
>>48259712
How about you? SHOW ME WHAT YOU GOT
>>48259871
I don't have the ability to edit the pdf at the moment, but i'll do what i can
Hmmm
I have something in mind already, but i feem like that would be cheeting
How about this?
Pick a brand, and i'll make a character for it
>>48260283
Hip Snake.
If you post the info I'll post a completed character sheet.
Progress on the section for Character rules. So far I've written up the Introduction, Stats and Skills sections. Gotta figure out a good way to do Tags next, since I'm not totally satisfied with what's in the Google Doc.
>>48260333
Thank you
Alright, let's give this a shot
Leon
Concept: A street musician with nothing but the guitar on his back and a good deal of talent He played the same corner every day, hoping for his lucky break, or at least a generous tipper
Sex: Male
Age: 20-something (good luck getting him to tell you exactly what)
Tags
Street Smarts [1]
Big Dreams [2]
Entry Fee: Talent (Having paid his entry with his guitar skills, his traveling companion is now nothing more than a highly impractical accessory) [4]
Stats
Rythm [2]
Flow [4]
Insight [2]
Bravery [3]
Skills: (for simplicity, i'll only list the ones i'd invest in)
Speak [3]
Think [3]
Sense [4]
Move [4]
Express [4]
Handle [3]
Endure [2]
I think that's everything, let me know if i missed anyhing
>>48257753
also, unless i missed a post that has rules for it, you have one stat point too many
>>48261518
You've got one too many Skill points there.
>>48261611
Oh, whoops
Thanks for correcting that for me, i mist have miscounted
>>48261867
*must
Wow, i'm on a roll today
>>48261879
Which Skill would you like to reduce?
What do you think would be Leon's Intrinsic Psych? Probably having to do with his guitar, right?
>>48261937
Endure, i think
The guitar's more like his medium, without his skills on the strings, he can only really use it as a melee weapon
For the intrinsic psyche, i was thinking
Showstopper: Teleport to a nearby space, if that space is occupied by noise, it's damaged and knocked into an adjacent space
(It's a work in progress)
>>48262150
Yeah I pretty much meant that he hits Noise with his Guitar as a Melee Intrinsic Psych.
Here's an updated Leon for yah.
Alright I'm off for tonight.
Added a section for Tags to the Character building document. Looking real nice here I think; I'm going to flesh out the Tags section a bit with a brief run down of what Tags can really do (such as Drive Checks and Intrinsic Psychs), but that's largely going to be referencing future sections.
>>48262267
Thanks
Yeah, that works
Still not totally clear on the limits of what intrinsic psyches can/can't be, my bad
>>48262331
No worries, I'll have that written up properly soon to eliminate that confusion. Glad to have contributions though!
