Wouldn't magic users be at odds with industrialization? I could totally see wizards, an exclusionary social class of mostly academics that occupys enormous power, loathing the advent of industrialization or even maybe trying to stifle it.
Especially fire arms. You can shoot a gun much quicker than a wizard can whisper a spell. It takes a life time to become a an adept wizard while it takes like a few weeks to months to become an adept conscript.
A lot of literature out of the romantic era usually touched on the theme of industrialization causing magic to vanish from the earth and really it makes perfect sense. You wouldn't really need it anymore.
Who's going to develop the magitech and deal with things beyond the scope of technology? There'll be an old guard, but as with all things, the next generation of wizard will capitalize on the new pursuit and the age of techmages will commence.
Eventually, rather than being at odds, the best of both disciplines will coalesce and what were once the new generation of experimenters will become the new old guard of regent production assisted by automation, spell conducting gloves increasing the stability of fireballs even in the hands of a novice, and legs for your wizard tower in case you feel like a change of scenery, but not at the pace of teleportation.
>>48169862
Not really
Wizard shit wouldn't really overlap at all with industrialization, wizards aren't usually portrayed running businesses even if magic made it a 100 times more convenient
Even guns are hardly an alternative to spells, it's a stupid comparison
All in all, it's a pretty shallow and uninspired idea that magic is somehow opposed to technology
>>48170108
>"Ugh he insulted my pen and paper games ;_; better go into autist over drive"
Industrialization versus magic was even a theme in the lord of the rings. Tolkien's idea was that once Sauron's ring of oower was destroyed middle earth would never have to worry about him again since industrialization was right around the corner. Sauron would pass into myth with all the other fantastic elements of the setting like Elves and Dwarves. Tolkien's not even the first to write about this, it is almost central theme in romantic literature where science displaces magic and superstition but I'm sure you would know better than some of the most respected authors of the canon, right?
>>48169862
Why do you think wizards don't exist anymore IRL?
>>48170207
Just ignore him OP, Americans are fucking retards.
>>48170207
>"Ugh, he insulted my thread, better get salty af, draw up some strawman and throw examples of authors who used this idea, but not actually explain why industrialization would ruin magic in anyway or drive wizards out of business or anything
You're just a faggot, huh
>>48169862
DEPENDS ONE THE SETTING and what point exactly are you trying to make anyway?
>>48169862
There's a lot of stuff that magic can do that early industrial technology can't do or is shit at. Exclusive fireball flingers will just have to broaden their horizons, and they were always the least relevant anyway.
>>48170292
>industrial revolution
>build machines that mass produce items and machines that don't require specialized life of training to wield
>enlightenment philosophy
>everyone expected to explain thoroughly behaviour in nature, can't just invoke things and chalk it up to mysticism
I'm sorry you were too much of a retard to follow, truly my bad. I'll dumb it down next time for cretins like you :^)
>>48169862
Have you not played Arcanum yet?
>>48170108
>elves and trees
>power of magic vs increasing power of technology
>technologists and magicians forming enclaves
these would all lead to conflict, and that's just off the top of my head
>>48170207
>Tolkien's idea was that once Sauron's ring of oower was destroyed middle earth would never have to worry about him again since industrialization was right around the corner
But none of the good guys ever embraced industrialization. The evil guys were industrious, but were defeated.
>>48169862
No. What?
Go and play Endless Legend. They use magic to actively facilitate industrialization, and both play an active, aggressive role in shaping those societies.
>>48170514
but their theft of territory to feed industrialization caused conflict with magically-inclined people
and all the rape and pillaging and shit
>>48170530
Oh, I'm not arguing against the magic-industry conflict, just that Middle-Earth was on the verge of industrialization after Sauron was defeated. If he or Sauroman had won, then industrialization would have been around the corner.
>>48170528
Based Amplitude.
So fucking good.I prefer Endless Space though.
>>48170613
Guess who got bought by SEGA.
>>48170657
No pls
>>48170668
https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space-2/blog/452-amplitude-joins-the-sega-family
>>48170696
Welp.
I mean, maybe it'll be a good thing. It's not EA or Activision. Sega does have a *good* track record on strategy games.
I really respect the devs, so perhaps they'll maintain their balls and give us some even better games with their newfound resources. I just hope they maintain their community driven approach.
>>48169862
I play with this idea a bit in one of my settings.
I thought about it for a while and decided one of the most important and controversial inventions would be the printing press.
Previously the only efficient way to print books/newspapers/etc. was to magically copy it which took little time and allowed higher general literacy rates and low book costs, but it meant the only producer were mages associated with the mages guild who oversee all of the magical industry/commerce. The guild would thus abuse this to influence politics since they had a stranglehold on widespread information flow by deciding what would and would not be mass published. Some dissenters to this regime invented the mechanical printing press as a way to subvert this power and get texts criticizing the regime massively distributed through the main empire. This leads to the mages having the army crack down on dissenters and they outlaw printing presses, but people keep building them which makes the public discontent worse which all eventually leads to a French Revolution style revolt on mass scale.
>>48170304
what is the source of this image?
>>48170108
>Even guns are hardly an alternative to spells, it's a stupid comparison
tell that to my shotgun wizard
>he thinks magic and industry are different things
Magic and nature aren't separate entities. Magic has daily effects within nature. Iron is just a metal we use for building...but it also guards against various evil spirits. Silver is a precious metal and has antibacterial properties, but slays werewolves and witches. Phases of the moon are merely a celestial body moving across the heavens, but full moons enrage lunatics and cause lycanthropic transformations. Weeds and flowers are just that, but each one has some innate magical value for potions and poisons. There is an underlying super-nature to everything around us, hidden depths of connectivity that have existed, exist now, and will exist for all time. Our Nature is merely a single layer of an entire body.
Magic is an ephemeral series of bound laws. It has obscure but reproducible effects. Demons will always be driven away by silver, the artifact can always judge who is pure of heart, these two plants can be mixed in a poultice to heal a disease. Industry is merely about the mass productions of these effects. Imagine a magically industrialized society that NEEDS the pure of heart to operate machinery, that needs ritual and prayer to keep the little imp inside the stone forge to keep the fire hot, that knows how to utilize both the base and super effects of a material, to build with strong iron that not only reinforces a building but wards it from intruding dark spirits.
You think guns would eclipse simple casters, but a well managed curse can lay waste to an entire lineage, and who's to say that the curse can't involve guns?
There's a full set of properties to all things, there are times at which certain things are better achieved, like a trooper in psychically calming blue firing his iron musket at midnight. Sure he could be in brown and fire it at 4pm and it'll put an enemy in hospital with a leg wound, but why wouldn't you take advantage of every property?
>>48169862
>Wouldn't magic users be at odds with industrialization?
Nope. If magic can be industrialized then they benefit.
If magic cannot be industrialized then it really doesn't affect them.
>Especially fire arms. You can shoot a gun much quicker than a wizard can whisper a spell. It takes a life time to become a an adept wizard while it takes like a few weeks to months to become an adept conscript.
Now we get to the part that entirely depends on setting. What if a wizard can cast with but a thought? What if they're born with innate magic powers rather than having to study? If early guns can threaten to wipe them out then why not bows or crossbows?
>A lot of literature out of the romantic era usually touched on the theme of industrialization causing magic to vanish from the earth and really it makes perfect sense. You wouldn't really need it anymore.
Again setting dependent. What can magic do?
If you trawl through a D&D book you'll find spells capable of feats far beyond even modern science.
>>48170791
Prequel
>>48170317
Flashy offensive spells are what magic is usually associated with in gaming, and that sort of thing could be easily replaced by giving a soldier an automatic rifle and a bunch of grenades. It's really 'utility' spells that would be hard for magic to replace.
>>48170026
Magic users are things that know a lot of the right complicated stuff.
The more stuff you know, the easier it is to learn complicated stuff.
The more people there are who know stuff, the more people there are who (could) know lots of stuff.
Industralization requires having people who know how stuff works.
Lots of people. Lots of potential (if unlikely) future magic users.
Magic users are exclusionary, they don't like magic users.
You ever have a neighbor magic user? It's awful.
Their tower might be taller then yours! You have to keep adding to it, just in case.
And you're constantly writing dissertations at them, it's this highbrow form of poop slinging.
Believe me, nobody has the time for any of it.
Speaking of not having time, you have a bunch of nobodies under you to save your time.
They're aplicat... associa... hmm. There's a big word for it. Starts with A. Maybe Ap? You don't like that word.
They always expect you to remember their names for some reason. And they constantly ask questions. Have fun with that!
And you have to keep a really close eye on them. Almost wastes more time than they save you.
Be careful, every now and then you discover an extra magic user that lives in your tower.
In YOUR tower!
It's great at first, saves tons of time. But sooner later they start getting funny ideas, like maybe it's "their tower".
Their tower!? Messy stuff, dangerous ideas. Sooner or later nobody has a tower. Or at least you don't. And that's just terrible.
Every magic user I've met lost several towers that way. Building a new tower takes forever.
Believe me, I distinctly remember waiting through building all of my towers. Except my first, I guess.
And anyways, you get enough people asking questions and they're bound to start asking tricky questions.
Like, "Why do magic users always have towers"? The only things I know who know that are magic users.
If they knew, that'd make them a magic user, right?
So anyways, magic users don't like industrialization.
The real answer OP is that in a world where magic is part of the physical laws of the land, it would be the cause of industrialization.
>>48170696
So blood pack DLCs and Faction packs ahoy!
Could be a lot worse though.
>>48171847
That's awfully old guard of you magic man. I bet you still wear pointy hats decorated with stars and dresses you swear are enchanted robes of unimaginable power.
Magitek is a young mans game. Why don't you go back to your tower?
>>48172297
I'm sure you don't even have a tower, you pompous dunce of a mountebank!
>>48172297
And they're sequins, by the way.
Tying light into them from the stars doesn't make them stars.
You would know that if your factories weren't so far away from the sky.
Tinkering around with fire and slag... it's unnatural!
What are you even doing at altitudes with fire?
>>48169862
Magic? No
Wizads as a social class that seek to stifle industrialization in order to monopolize power? Yeah I definitely see that
>>48169862
Magic + Technology is usually really overpowered though
>Casts spells for free
>Infinite destruction at a touch of a finger.
