NUMENERA/THE STRANGE/GENERAL CYPHER SYSTEM THREAD.
Topic of the day: Why does no one play Numenera or the Strange? I've noticed finding games for it is really difficult, but I'm not sure why because the system is actually a lot of fun . Been in a campaign for half a year now.
Someone in my normal group ran Numenera not too long ago.
It lasted 5 sessions before he unceremoniously ended the game because we obsessively investigated every single thing, and that's having bad wrong fun.
I picked this up on a whim not knowing what it was when it was first released. Friends really want to play it. I really want to DM it. But it's a little intimidating, content-wise.
If anyone has run this before how do you go about it?
>>43699443
I've just started running a Strange campaign and from what I can tell there's a big focus on rewarding exploration and for the DM to be more of a storyteller and the mechanics are kind of oriented that way. I've always leaned towards more RP/story than combat so I really like the fact that I don't have to roll ever and can focus on telling the story and setting the scene. It can be intimidating because most of the GM guides just say do whatever you want, which isn't super helpful advice, but it's actually easier to run than you'd think. If you're running Numenera start with the Devil's Spine adventure or something just to check it out and see if you dig it.
>>43699443
As creepy as he can be when pretending to have fun, Monte's demo play video helps a lot.
The adventures in the base book, especially Beale of Boregal, lay out the stations of the plot without forcing your players down a rigid path. How they get there is up to them. That said, Numenera plays best in quest mode because of its emphasis on exploration and investigation. You can let the players be a bit sandboxy within that or lead them by the nose, but full sandbox strains it a bit if they keep it up for long.
AS with most RPGs it benefits from the Ref having a talent for description.
>>43699417
Too much investigation? Did the Ref actually read the book?
>>43699443
>how do you go about it?
Use standard fantasy tropes. Many of them are already there in the setting hiding behind the technological bits.
Meet in a tavern, or as they gather for an event; the game already encourages connections between PCs.
Have a patron approach, or overhear rumors.
Present a task or quest.
Because NPCs don't need a lot of mechanical detail (level 4, artifact, cypher, cypher, weapon, armor) feel free to use them often.
Do not be afraid of Cyphers. They are potions and scrolls that need to be used or stashed under a rock for later.
Numenera is post-so-many-apocalypses that it is difficult to exceed the setting's inherent weirdness, but you should try.
>>43700009
>Do not be afraid of Cyphers. They are potions and scrolls that need to be used or stashed under a rock for later.
This is super important! Players should always be finding (and using) cyphers. You can tell someone doesn't know how to run Numenera when you aren't finding new cyphers every session.
>>43700056
Don't you get fucked over for carrying too many Cyphers though?
>>43700078
Kind of, at the beginning of every day if you're over your limit you have to roll against a d100 table for some random effects and every subsequent day you roll without using those cyphers it gets more and more dangerous. It encourages players to use cyphers liberally because they're going to keep getting more, but generally it's not a huge concern unless they decide to loot like 10 of them and then do nothing with them.
>>43700056
>>43700078
>>43700183
If the Ref is feeling really generous, or knows that a situation that may need a big bag of tricks is coming up, there is an artifact that functions as a Bag of Holding for cyphers, increasing the carry limit somewhat.
It's not d&d
>>43699290
I really want to play it, because I think the setting sounds awesome, but the incredibly alien nature of the system (I've played Pathfinder, 40k RPGs, and Iron Kingdoms so far) intimidates me.
>>43700785
No really, watch Monte's example of play vid. The mechanics are simple.
>>43700732
Not mechanically, no. The same story processes apply, though.
Does the whole effort thing work in actual play?
I just have a feeling players would shy away from spending their HP to improve rolls.
>>43701010
It wouldn't surprise me if it is, it's just the system being very different from what I'm used to throws me off a bit. I haven't gotten too far into the mechanics to know for certain, mind you, that's just the feeling I get from skimming it.
>>43701070
The job of the Ref is to make them want to. Need to.
In practice, the danger is low unless a PC takes that next point of Effort before taking the necessary point of Edge. One level of Effort applied to a stat you don't have much Edge in is a small gamble. Two levels of Effort applied to an off spec stat is another entirely.
>>43699290
>I've noticed finding games for it is really difficult
I ran a game at a local Con recently and had two extra players and no FTAs. People want to play and *will* show up.
>>43701036
But it still isn't dnd. Thus, no one plays it
>>43699290
Welcome to the world of interesting games. Once you get outside of D&D (and related games) it gets way harder to find anything, but WoD, Shadowrun, CoC, maybe that shitty Star Wars game are available-enough. Anything more unusual (which is most of the really exciting games - no offense to CoC and SR) and it gets extremely tough to find groups outside of conventions.
Converting others to play in the games you want to run is really the only way to go.
>>43699290
>Why does no one play
I play, in two games at once. (Read: GM two games of it)
>>43702787
riiiight
Does Numenera have supplemental materials?
>>43701070
>>43701375
I find it a little too involved in mental calculations. I'd rather have another pool to use in downsteps or effects so players don't feel they're draining themselves just for a roll.
>>43707691
It has a character options book. It provides some new focuses, descriptors and powers. I like it a lot because I managed to make a character who can succeed in impossible tasks pertaining to strength fairly easily by tier 2.
>>43699290
>Topic of the day: Why does no one play Numenera or the Strange?
I can't find anyone who wants to play it with me.
>>43701070
As somebody who has been playing in a numenera campaign for about a year and a half, effort is not only exceedingly useful, but also very desirable. You can get along well enough without it, but using it to its full potential allows you to really get a lot of extra mileage out of your actions.
Right now I am playing a unarmed glaive who pretty much applies two levels of effort on every action. It makes for very fast and efficient combat.
Can I ask for stories from the people who've actually had a chance to play Numenera?
>get book from PoE backing
>read it after months of meh-ing
>love the setting
>rules take a while to get but seem cool
>no one anywhere to play
>tfw
>>43710672
Been GMing this for about 2 years now, one story/world running about 15 or so unique players.
We've had about 30 or so 5+ hour sessions, and so far I've only had one player drop to life commitments.
The simplicity of the rules is very attractive to newer players, but also gives you a framework to make your own house mods if something is too simple. I've tried running DnD and Pathfinder in the past to no success, but this has really stuck.
The setting is overwhelming at first, but doing a bit of homework goes a long way.
I like the setting, but I think the rules are kind of wanky. They mix storygaming with old-style shit in a really unsatisfying way. I'd rather just use 13th Age or something.
>>43711105
Which bits in particular? I think its too light in some places, but if you consider the rules a sandbox in themselves, you can easily bulk it up.
I'm working on getting a group together for The Strange, I'd be the GM. I figured most of tg wasn't into cypher system because no one ever posted about it but when I'm finally ready in a week or two to start looking for players I'll have to post here since it sounds like people could be interested.
>>43710672
What kind of story do you want? A setting related one, or a mechanics related one, or a that-guy related one, or a normal gameplay related one?
I've run it at conventions and stuff, so I have a lot to fall back on.
>>43711438
We had a 280 post, up for a week, 40 user thread two weeks ago, with not even 1 troll post. It was unprecedented.
>>43710672
At one point my first character in a numenera campaign I was in had picked up a knife from some dude he killed. The gm described it as being a pretty shitty knife that didn't have a point, so I wrote it down as "pointless knife" on my character sheet.
Over time it slowly went from being a physically pointless knife, to a cosmically pointless knife. In that any time it tried to interact with the world, it instead did not. We then ruled that it was an oddity rather than standard equipment. Became kind of a running joke where I would keep trying to use it for shit, only for weird things to happen as a result.
My GM had this system where we could effectively "uncover the power" of an oddity, so to speak, and make it into an artifact for an xp cost. I was going to do that to the pointless knife in order to try to make some weird artifact, but that particular campaign ended, unfortunately.
>>43709368
Don't you go through your strength pool quickly?
Can I ask about that character? Tier, Pools, Edge.
>>43712382
Not him, but you only go through your strength pool quickly when you're using it to do OBSCENE things.
It took a lot of play to realize, but it's absolutely shocking how much damage and fuckery you can do when you come up to a challenge that you don't hold back on.
And his post seems to be just talking about being specialized/assets so he would not be spending at base.
>>43712382
I go through my strength pools at a moderate clip. My character is halfway through first tier at this point. He is a Clumsy Glaive who Performs Feats of Strength. I have an STR edge of 3 currently, speed edge of 1, and an effort of 2.
Due to the way this works, I effectively get a free point of effort on any given str task, which is pretty great. Given that, applying effort twice only eats up two points.
I need rests more than my previous character, but I can end combat pretty quickly a brutally. My character uses fists, so it is already pretty easy to hit things, applying two levels of effort to damage makes for a lot of damage in a single round.
I play an Inquisitive Nano who Talks to Machines in my current campaign. Squishy as fuck because I'm putting a lot of points into my intellect pool, but it's a lot of fun to play because I've got a lot of creative uses for my esoteries.
>>43711444
Anything, though setting ones would be preferred I guess?
>>43712984
>Be GM
>Party travels north across a half-synth-half-plains landscape, dotted with animals that like to stay just at the border of sight in all directions.
>Group naturally follows a small stream
>The stream dries up suddenly, strange fish and arthropods squiggling in the mud
>Travel further North, eventually see a small, completely smooth structure that protrudes from the ground and blocks the stream
>Party comes across people wearing yellow clerical robes on the exact opposite side, carrying unrecognizable vegetables and grains
>They are lighting incense and tapping at a strange synth tray with a flat glass top
>People are very agitated and tell them to leave
>Pull out rod full of buttons and dongles, and plug it into the building, the outside door opens
>Nano senses a great power from the machine spirits inside, uses his biomechanical arm to rip open his actual living arm, and feigns a ritual full of sparks and blood in obeisance of the yellow clerics gods.
>They're so shocked and disgusted that they believe he may be worthy as recruits, the party is allowed to enter the dark void in front of them.
>>43713256
>uses his biomechanical arm to rip open his actual living arm, and feigns a ritual full of sparks and blood in obeisance of the yellow clerics gods.
How did that come about to happen?
>>43713387
I ran the clerics as a very insular lot who were aggressive towards outsiders, especially ones harassing them in the middle of one of their supposed-to-be-secret Rituals of Opening.
The Nano had the focus Fuses Flesh With Steel, his reasoning was that he was Created, not someone with prosthetics so much as born Cyborg.
He wanted access to the inside, so he decided to make himself an insider.
He was clever about it, trying to make it socially awkward to question his faith over all the bleeding.
>>43713512
>so he decided to make himself an insider
Fairly sure it's just my total of 7 hours of sleep since last Friday, but he decided to do that by putting his metal ADM in his flesh arm?
I know it's expecting a lot from Monte 'I secretly write WOD slashfic' Cook, but fucking hell do Shims irritate me as a concept. They could have given people some hyper dimensional bank account that can be used to run artifacts, or worked on a trust system like EP, but no.
They said shiny buttons are now valuable. Fiat currency with no nation behind it. The one justification. Jesus.
>>43713894
Well, any RPG is about crazy people, I guess.
>>43714075
It is kinda silly thematically, in that theoretically you could buy a sword for like, what, 5 shins, and then just break it apart into a bunch of tiny bits of metal for like, 30 shins or something. Yeah.
>>43714313
You could make it that way if you wanted too, I guess?
I like a currency that is all about super-materials from the past.
Why make stuff out of bronze when you can smelt a bunch of ultra-pure metal bits into a synth-steel door-lock.
>>43714075
>>43714368
But that's still homebrew. It says there in the entry that they use pretty shit as a generic coin. Nothing is hugely valuable. It's the EP economy without justification
>>43702787
>>43705194
I don't know why nobody plays it.
I know why I don't, and thats because it's a class and level weird fantasy system, which is how I see D&D. So it's harder to pitch to a player group, and try as I might, I can't get hooked enough to force the issue.
Because at the end of the day, it's still a class and level system. I can't go to the mat for that.
Are there rules for extending the lifespan of cyphers? Because as much as I enjoy Numenera, cyphers bug me. Having the majority of tech the players run across being single-use consumables or items that break after one use just doesn't feel all that realistic. I think the artifacts system is way more reasonable.
>>43716095
you could always run a game with less cyphers and more artifacts.
>>43716095
The way cyphers work is pretty much the entire point of the system. The game is literally balanced around a constantly rotating arsenal of cyphers. They are single use, sure, but players should pretty much never not be using and getting new cyphers on a regular basis.
>>43699290
>Topic of the day: Why does no one play Numenera or the Strange?
Because they are extremely bad rpgs. Very poorly written, with rules that make you feel like an old man who has failed at everything he's ever done wrote them.
They are roughly as good as shitty fanfiction strapped to a bad free RPG.
>>43719697
>>43720602
Bad games are bad
>>43700785
>incredibly alien
Seriously?
>>43720621
I think he just means that they're really bad and is trying to be polite
>>43714075
Eh, that's Numenera for you. "There's this huge road that has one million years and everybody uses it for commerce but it's full of bandits and you don't know where it goes"!
>>43720953
Just.. jesus. At least most settings try to come up with a half way believable explanation. People would build another road. Or go around. At least talk about how turbo aids is a weaponised meme that blocks access to the area except on the highway. ANYTHING.
There is nothing at all wrong with class and level systems, but I can imagine that people like to pretend they have reasons for their tastes.
Why is it used so arbitrarily by stupid people on 4chan?
>I hate FATE because it's basically a class and level system
>>43720953
That's just Monte "Japanese Penis Cannibal" Cook for you. Fucking horrible writer. Seriously like bottom of the trashcan soaked in garbage water tier.
>>43721073
No, everyone in history hates FATE because it's an embarrassing pile of shit.
>>43721082
Well, I hate it, therefore it's a class and level system.
>>43721075
I'm sad this didn't catch on, some asshole kept proving it wrong and people didn't want to take it on like coasters.
>>43721114
>defending the penis eater without irony or remorse
you must really really love kickstarter "games" I guess
>>43721129
>sad that people don't play along and call him that
>is somehow defense
ok
>>43721133
>making up disinfo about your pet author's sordid past to pretend it was "disproven"
Typical kickstarter backer, just like star citizen they'll say literally anything to whitewash the shitty companies they throw tons of money into foolishly
>>43721142
I know you like shitposting, I see you in every other Cypher System thread.
It doesn't matter that I like this game, the penis eater thing is hilarious and I like the game, not the creator.
Stop being such a giant faggot and accept that the Monte Cook defense force defeated you easily just by asking for a source.
Try not to be so pathetic next time.
>>43721157
>everyone who doesn't like my shitty rpg is the same person
nutcase
>the "joke" that is true about the sick fucker who I support is hilarious
it's hilarious that it's true
>bla bla bla I'm a kickstarter victim with stockholm symdrome
Yeah, we know.
>>43720953
>>43720972
What road? I don't get it, the setting has a road?
>>43721171
>Numenera
>well-defined setting
>>43721171
There's a road, it has bandits and is used by kingdoms and stuff.
Why would bandits try and attack a road full of merchants?
>>43721187
>bandits
>merchants
>bandits
>merchants
They wouldn't, that's crazy
>>43721195
If you wanted someone dead, wouldn't it be easier to just kill them at home instead of on the road?
The setting makes no sense.
>>43721205
>boondits
>marchants
>boondits
>marchants
Yeah, it's pretty bad.
>>43721171
The setting has everything and the kitchen sink. It just doesn't hang together very well. It's like having confucian jew dwarves who are militantly religious.
>>43721349
And I know he days that's so you can fill in the blanks yourself, but that's lazy writing. It's him stringing a shitload of cool ideas together and saying 'now you make it work'.
Shit, nanos work due to the nanite cloud, but somehow work off planet or inaide eldritch artifacts? Really?
>>43721397
Each Nano's power source is up to their player at creation, no? Also, are you saying that just because the corebook doesn't say that they don't work there, that they do? Permission by omission?
Also from the corebook, the datasphere extends through at least the solar system. I wouldn't be surprised if other dimensions were in it's reach as well.
Wouldn't it take tens of thousands of pages to fill in all the blanks and leave no room for players to change the landscape?The setting is awful, by the way
>>43721431
I think it's the magic box adventure in which its explicitly syated to be nanite filled. It's also chock full of references to nanos using nanites. They are the default option.
I'm away from my books and shitposting at work, so specifics citations evade me.
>>43721480
That sounds like an exception more than it always works that way.
I wish the setting wasn't shit.
I sometimes ponder how the system ended up designed so well, he must have had to steal the data from the Wizards research department.
[Spoiler] and no I don't care that he made the most played RPG in the world, that was due to timing and marketing[/spoiler]
>>43721523
>system
>designed well
HAHAHAHAHA
>>43721629
It's very simple. Poorly laid out in books tho. Few rolls.
>>43721800
A fresh pile of dog shit is very simple too and only rolls one way, downhill. Doesn't make it good.
>>43721073
It's an easy way for a hipster to be dismissive of things he won't even pretend to try to like.
>>43721171
"The Wandering Walk is a pilgrimage route through the Ninth World. No one knows the exact length of the Wander, nor can anyone point to its exact beginning or end. Many people speculate that the Wander is actually a closed circle that encloses the whole of the Ninth
World and that some travelers, especially those with enhancements or otherworldly attributes, have been trekking its eternal loop since before recorded time."
It's the starting adventure in the manual.
>>43709330
The facebook one-shot RPG group sometimes plays Numenera, along with other strange games.
/groups/tabletoprpgoneshot/
>>43711160
Would Numenera still work if you added hit points but still had effort?
This is short, nifty little netbook for The Book of the New Sun using OSR.
Has a lot of that science fantasy flavour that I found lacking in Numenera.
>>43724387
Probably not, considering some attacks target different pools.
If you don't like how a system does something, don't play it. Trying to fix it will only break the system. Literally.
>>43715854
>it's a class and level weird fantasy system, which is how I see D&D
Well, yeah. Numenera is really just another DND ruleset. The post apocalyptic science fiction stuff is just window dressing.
>>43725248
>Literally
Figuratively.
>>43721187
>>43721205
Are you being sarcastic? Is this memes?
I find the Lexicon Urthus really helpful for Numenera games:
https://books.google.ca/books?id=9neV_vyIX14C&pg=PA77&lpg=PA77&dq=catoptric+armor&source=bl&ots=egVzSL1Urw&sig=2YYHDVJj4bDhKETCtN-g61H8b8k&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=catoptric%20armor&f=false
>>43725698
Sarcasm. One guy was making fun of another guy for complaining about the game having a big road where bandits attack people.
>>43725629
Not only are you autistic, you are also retarded.
Broken, as in not working. Which is what will happen to systems if you fuck with them.
>>43726324
A car can be literally broken. A concept can only be figuratively broken. You should have used a word like 'conceptually' broken.
>>43726733
Not him, but you're wrong. A system can be broken. That's what you call it when a system doesn't work. Broken. That's not a figure of speech, that's literal. A system isn't a concept, it's a system, a machine. if it doesn't perform it's intended function, it's broken. That is one of the definitions of the word "broken."
He's wrong, in that many rpgs can be altered without breaking them, but he wasn't being figurative.
>>43726733
Literal facts can exist about concepts. The alphabet is conceptual, but A literally comes before B.
>>43727014
You are a moron..
>>43723567
Huh, wouldn't it take a long fucking time to walk around Earth? I could seriously believe that no one knows where it ends.
Even without magic.
>>43729435
>..
Are you bad at ellipses or bad at punctuation? One period and three periods have meaning, two periods is an oddity.
>>43729435
Nice argument, anon.
>>43729675
>is an oddity
Numenera on-topic?
Why does 5e also have oddities?
>>43730063
Because they're a well-made mechanic for immersing people in the world.
>>43721431
All though the nano entry it talks about accessing nanites and ancient machines, with others only calling it 'magic'. The wording of things involves "Transmitting" yourself, or "tapping into the datasphere". Yes, there is the 'origin of special powers' table, but that's A) Optional, and B) None of it involves magic. It's all mutation, reconstruction of the body, surgical alteration to control the datasphere.
Well that didn't go so well as a discussion. How about some nice science fantastical art instead?
>>43707691
Player's Options book, bestiary, artifacts book, world book, a good collection of adventures to get you rolling, and a book on space. Books on underwater adventures and other dimensions are in development.
>>43721397
>And I know he days that's so you can fill in the blanks yourself, but that's lazy writing.
I'm guessing you're one of those people who can never be happy.
>>43734016
discussion didn't go well? Where do you think you are?
>>43699443
I've run Numenera, and a general fantasy game using it's rules (Cypher System book wasn't out yet). It's literally the easiest game to run, and the fantasy game was my group's favorite of anything I've run (We play a lot of games).
>>43719697
1) I disagree with your objective statements
2) I don't think you've had any experience with them, as they aren't the same game and weren't written by the same person. The Strange was written by Bruce Cordell and doesn't read like Numenera at all. Monte's name is just on it cause he thinks that's a good idea.
>>43734369
>Monte Cook Presents Monte Cook's The Strange With Ideas Contributed by Monte Cook, Writing by someone else....
>>43734397
There's someone you should probably look up. Guy named Gary Gygax...
>>43734315
> It's literally the easiest game to run
Not even close.
>>43699290
Because its the poor man's Dark Sun lite.
>>43736033
That honor goes to motherfuckin crab truckers
>>43733441
>None of it involves magic
It's a sci-fi setting you rube.
>>43736539
It's less sci-fi than Star Wars.
>>43734178
I'm guessing you're a tit. Internal consistency is not a big ask.
>>43736539
Read more than a single post.
>>43736740
>gets offended
>goes on unrelated off-tangent about internal consistency
Oh anon, never change.
>>43736760
Lern2 reading comprehension. Or get less offended about people saying your favourite setting is stupid.
>>43736522
I'd play a Crab Truckers In Space game.
