In what areas is a traditional D&D group (Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Wizard) lacking? The only thing I can really think of is nature/survival skills that a ranger/druid could bring....
>The only thing I can really think of is nature/survival skills that a ranger/druid could bring....
Fighters are assumed to have basic wilderness skills.
For that matter, adventures are assumed to have basic adventuring skills.
Speaking of which, Thief wasn't part of the D&D whitebox, it was originally from a supplement.
Everyone was assumed to know how to climb walls, hide, detect and disarm traps, and the like.
You either made an ability check (for most of that crap) or roleplayed it (for traps and the like).
Even thieves were supposed to behave that way. Thief abilities were more like insurance.
Miss the DM's cue and spring a trap? Roll for detect trap to see if you notice it before springing it.
They were also literally supernatural abilities.
Being able to climb slick, perfectly even walls slanted towards you without using tools.
Being able to completely hide from scrutinous searches in small patches of kind-of dim ligthing.
And so on.
>>47995940
https://youtu.be/PKg2ZzPKl2M?t=11s
Cool, why are they so mundane now though?
>>47996012
>>47996263
>Letting people have cool things is bad.
Sorry you can't just be the fucking best at everything David.
>>47997174
I don't think you could have missed the point any harder.
It's not that people are allowed to do cool things. It's that they can only do cool things if they take the Advanced Cool Things feat, which is only available once you take several other feats of varying usefulness.
That's actually a pretty big reason why the Martial/Caster divide exists. Martials have to take tons of feats to get access to a wide array of combat options and utility, whereas Casters get a ton of utility and options built into their spell selection.
>>47999156
If doing that cool thing is important to them then maybe they should have taken the Do Cool Thing feat. Obviously they wanted to do something else.
>Martial/Caster divide
Is the sign of a bad DM or players trying to screw over other players.
>>47999209
You're either ignorant or delusional. I like 3.5, but I don't understand you fools that like to pretend the system isn't flawed all to hell.
>>47997174 When doing cool things requires (really or perceptually) having cool things, you limit and shoehorn the doing of cool things.
>>47999156
The problem with just letting people conjure chandeliers out of narrative thin air is that it removes any tactical aspect of the game. You can bullshit something like that all the time and you have no idea what your odds of success are or what the effects will be on success and failure.
The feats fix that by limiting the shit you can pull and hammering down the rules. So it has good and bad aspects.
>>48000703
No one is saying players should be able to "conjure chandeliers out of narrative thin air" but if a chandelier IS there they should have the option of swinging on it without having to take a million feats or build an entire character around it. If they are a reasonably athletic character who isn't weighed down by heavy armour or other obstacles they should have decent crack at it.
The problem with feats is that they focus most the tactical decisions on character creation and levelling up. Strategy should develop through play and overly specific feat systems get in the way of that. Cool things should involve some risk, some thinking and improvisation. Cool things should not be restricted to the guy who picks the "Cool thing stats" out of the book
