I've seen a good number of RPG systems and I feel like none of them does a good job when it comes to skills.
The problem I have with skill systems is that you're usually left with some points to spend and cooking costs the same as demonslaying, there are no skill tiers that would let and encourage you to invest into fluff skills while also leveling your general skills. I always try to enrich my characters through their skillsets and end up being worst in various situations due to the fact that I wanted more fluff on my character instead of minmaxing. The other thing is that skills are either too vague like Combat or too specific like Repair (Bike), Repair (Car), Repair (Fridge), Repair (Spaceship Warpdrive).
tl;dr: are there systems with skills handled in a way that you really like? I'm looking for some inspirations. System mechanics being good in general are a plus.
I like the way Legends of the Wulin does its skill system. As a game about Wuxia action, 'stats' are purely based on combat, with things like Might and Finesse (physical strength and dexterity) appearing on the skill list instead. Its skills are all equal cost, but the rules allow for all of them to be used in combat, and while some skills have specific utility attached it's perfectly possible to grab a selection of flavour skills like Perform and still have it be a useful addition to your character.
I do think prioritization is very important when it comes to skill lists, figuring out how important something is in the context of the game. Too many RPGs just list loads of skills without really considering whether some are more important than others.
>>47958768
The problem is, that having skills with differing costs, in practice, often annoying to use.
It also opens up the question how Skills should be tiered. For example: The skill Medicine should be one of the most expensive skills in the game, because a proper medical education takes years. Basic First Aid, however, is really easy and quick to learn, but also vastly more useful than Medicine in the context context of an RPG. So you eather have First Aid be part of Medicine and be extremely expensive, be part of Medicine and price different skills levels differently, leading to even more complications and unintuitive use, or you have it as a separate, but more useful and cheaper skill.
>>47958920
Pricing by IRL rarity/complexity is generally a bad idea, IMO. Pricing by their relevance to the premise of the game is a much better idea.
If you're in a military themed game, for example, being a medic is useful, so medic training is reasonably priced. Actually being a doctor, while significantly more complex, isn't a huge boost in context, so medical training might just be a spec or advantage taken which enhances uses of the basic medic skillset.
>>47958920
The solution I have in my head is to make the tiers not based on realism but usefulness in the setting the game takes place (assuming there's a setting). So in a cyberpunk game your main skills would include hacking, streetwise, guns, katana combat while your secondary skills could have stuff like medicine, performance (rave parties), forgery.
Also if you divide the skills into separate groups and let players spend separate point pools to choose them you kinda force them to flavour up the characters by saying that this guy who one shots everything can also knit (Demolition Man reference). Most of the Knowledge (xxx) skills would be in the second group e.g.
>>47958768
goddamnit can't find the TG complaint department pic when I need it
but in all seriousness go read GURPS basic set characters, it literally addresses your specific issue perfectly by having skills priced and progress based on how difficult they would be to learn
>>47958768
I tend to find the only one that does it well is GURPs. The rest are questionable.
The down-side of GURPs is that if you aren't putting the time in to learn it all and account for EVERYTHING, you're in for a bad time. I still teach players TO THIS DAY (Nearly two years GMing GURPs) how to make characters. It's one of the most complex systems I've ever seen, but it's sheer versatility makes it worth it.
Check out something like Heroquest 2 where the skills are all you have and you make them up.
I also like BRP because again, you're mostly a list of skills and d% is really easy to explain to people.
I like roll under systems.
>>47958768
Usually what I like to do is divide skills into categories (combat, social, utility, or whatever else) and give everyone the same allotment of points into each, like 5/5/5 or whatever, with some leftover points to spend wherever they please, but with no option to re-allocate what points are already in those categories.
>>47958768
Read GURPS.
wait, is gurps really good or am I being trolled?
>>47960063
With GURPS you fall into one one three camps. It's the perfect game that suits all your needs, it is a terrible game that no one could really like, or the "No one around me plays it."There is rumor of a fourth group that has played it and thinks the game is just ok.
>>47960225
Secret fourth group member checking in.
>>47958768
>I always try to enrich my characters through their skillsets and end up being worst in various situations due to the fact that I wanted more fluff on my character instead of minmaxing.
There's no system that will fix that problem. Just deal with it and don't whine if you want to "roleplay over rollplay" so much. It's your goddamn choice. If you really value roleplaying over min-maxing that much, then the joy of roleplaying those useless skills should be enough to make you happy.But you don't, do you? You want "roleplaying fun" AND powerful numbers so that you can win. That's ego.
>>47960603
wew lad, I was just asking
no need to go full Kylo Ren on me
I like how 5e does it: just bundle them up into huge packages. First if you want to be smart, just put some points in INT, now you're generically smart at everything and second here's a tiny amount of points that let you be super-good at a tiny list of subsets or average at one thing in an area you're normally weak in.
Now instead of trying to decide if a point goes in dodge or baseball, it just goes in dex and you get better at both. Your character gets to improve his on-base statistics and the rest of the party doesn't want to strangle you for screwing up the power curve.
i like burning wheel/torchbearer/mouseguard style. Very dynamic and "realistic" in that as you use them you get better
>>47958995
BESM had a table with recommended skill costs divided up by genre. So in a Martial Arts themed game Melee skills cost more as you'll be expected to get use out of it in every session. In a Mech Pilot game the Piloting skill and Gun related skills would cost more and melee costs less because it becomes a more situational skill.
>>47958768
I really hate saying it, but Gurps does what you are looking for rather well.
Personally, I do too really like skill systems. I like as few stats and numbers as possible.
Best way IMO is to just get rid of arbitrary skill lists in general, and just add freeform background bonuses to actions that are thematically correct for the background, and give detriments in case those are lacking. For more depth, add multiple layers, such as off-skills (close to being thematically correct but not exactly) and trueskills (thematically correct), with relatively simple bonuses (Off-skill gives 1/3 the bonus of trueskill for example). Worried of fucknuts trying to powergame better backgrounds and argue about being all-powerful? GM discretion.
Otherwise you can either be stuck with skills that you may have problems categorizing (Some actions are outside of their scope so it's unclear) or you have multiple overlapping ones (such as hiding and sneaking being separate skills) and your skill list becomes bloated.
So if you don't have a background that can give a benefit (or +-0 at lowest level), you get a minus. Just stat + bonus, seriously.
Tweak the amounts you get from said backgrounds and how much your stats can be at maximum to get the wanted level of background to stats.
It's not that hard.
>>47958768
The system is a rough framework to give you some narrative ability. The moderation of a GM is necessary to fill the gaps.
deal with it
>>47958768
Is that Grimes?
