I'm currently setting up a scenario for my players in which I want to trick them into thinking they're fighting undead creatures while in reality It's creatures with the Deathless Subtype they're fighting (Basically good-aligned undead) IE: Undead powered by the positive energy plane, not the negative energy plane.
The thing is, many undead have energy drain abilities, which are decidedly negative-energy effects, so It wouldn't seem right for them to keep these, but I also don't want to nerf my monsters, so I was hoping to get some suggestions for alternate effects (other than level/ability drain that is)
Anybody have some neat ideas?
>>47952454
Well, they already have a host of things that make them tough so you do not need much.
Remember they get dr 5/magic, spell resistance of 10+HD and turn resistance bonus of half that.
They also get their cha bonus to hp per hit dice.
Remember, you do not take a skeleton and make it deathless. You take a living creature then make it deathless.
Also, deathless are intelligent enough to act like normal people. They can use traps, terrain and game mechanics to fight better that undead who just shamble around.
>>47952501
Maybe I should clarify the setting a bit more: The Deathless they will be heading up against are part of a cult of Evening Glory (basically they're obsessed with eternal life and love) headed by a cleric who has been basically bumbling around trying and often failing at reviving people, leaving crazed positive energy powered Deathless creatures.
Hence my desire to give "regular" undead the deathless template and my need to tweak a few things. Hope that makes it clear.
>>47952454
This may be of interest to you
https://warosu.org/tg/thread/37020668
>>47952721
Evening Glory always was my favourite Libris Mortis deity too, mainly because the others are meanie-bo-beanies.
>>47952454
noble is that you?
>>47954308
Absoloutely a fan of the Evening Glory myself, in my current pathfinder game I'm trying to nudge Naderi to be less MUH EVANESCENCE and more Evening Glory.
Literally the only problem I got with her is that every time I type her name I type Morning Glory, then have to go back and fight the urge to leave it as is for humorous effect.
>>47952454
Give them the ability to buff each other instead.
Radiant power, a healing touch, maybe some sort of animate object thing since positive energy, that could give them some back up minions.
>>47952454
first ive heard of this subtype but it seems really cool, if a little snowflake-ish.
anyway a thing to keep in mind is that they are powered by positive energy so the tactic of using healing magic to "damage" them wont work.
perhaps the have a regenerative ability
some form of protective magic
or maybe keep the level/ability drain but make it so that at some point they become deathless themselves
or you can not make it drain as much as "infect". the stats wont get lower but become more and more effected by the "infection" until they die or the saving throws versus death start.
Make them buff each other, and when they die they can siphon off the remaining energy to power up and avenge their comrades. Make them cohesive in a group like the infected in left 4 dead, because positive energy is all about teaming up an fucking up the opposing force.
>>47954766
>positive energy is all about teaming up
now I'm envisioning skeletons with motivational t-shirts cheering each other on as they rip enemies apart limb by limb
>>47954726
Exactly, I might even want to try and tick the bard into healing one of the creatures.
Point is in my setting these things have basically lost their minds though, due to the bumbling nature of the guy raising them. So I was thinking of giving them a confusion or daze on hit, something to that effect. An overload of positive energy zapping the system.
>>47955549
>An overload of positive energy zapping the system.
this could work.
do you know what a cramp actually is? its when the muscle that for whatever reason doesnt stop flexing (doesnt recieve a "stop" command) causing pain and, worst case, tearing or outright ripping a tendon.
working off this superpowered biology, make em like deadpool/nurgle followers.
who says diseases, bacteria, sickness and cancer cant benefit from positive energy?
that way they could poison touch attacks or some other disease attacks.
you can make them really devious in that they cant be removed with positive energy but will only boost them, and now the PCs has to somehow use negative energy to heal them in the same way you cauterize a wound
>confusion or daze on hit
this could be explained as them havin a sensory overload from suddenly having 20/20 vision, the hearing of a bat, olfactory sense of a starnosed mole and the tastebuds of a... 3 star michelin chef?
another random idea.
a typical trope of high fantasy undeads is that they leave behind a trail of death and decay, killing crops, people and creatues alike, leaving only barren wastelands.
with the daethless they could leave behind trails of flowers, blooming plants and healthy forests.
