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>Question
When is your next game?
Why is Chronicles so much shittier than WoD?
I mean, the original line was so much more popular that they not only made both video games based on it, but then they also just cucked Chronicles out of even using WoD in its title, because it's still the more popular today.
Is it the fact that Chronicles doesn't have an interesting setting, is it its focus on being a whiny bitch, is it a higher degree of SJWism? Please explain.
>>47977887
I.. have to admit. This is good trolling. It makes me annoyed, even at the same time I know it's trolling.
8/10.
But now that we are past that, let's actually have a discussion. Feeding the trolls is the only way these threads grow.
1) They didn't "cuck out". It was a decision, that none of the CofD people were involved in, and it was based on not mixing shit up. (What exactly does "cuck out" mean in this context? Who is their wife, and who is fucking it?)
2) The setting isn't any less interesting. It's more modular, yes, but it is also free of Malkavian Pranksters and things like Samuel Haight.
3) Oh please. Whiny Bitch? Compared to games who were released during the height of the emo era?
4) Higher degree of SJWism? The only reason the term SJW wasn't applied to old WW games is that it wasn't invented back then.
>>47977887
This stupid line of complaints forgets that the entire industry hit a massive slump in the mid-2000s and only the switch to digital distribution/Print on Demand pulled things out of that downward spiral. Hell, compare the volume of D&D 3.5 books to the 5e books.
Also, there are many good CofD lines while most of WoD reads like bad parody/satire.
>>47977887
>>47977994
>>47978182
>starting the thread with this gay ass shitposting
>>47977887
WoD spoke to a generation of gamers because of the times it came out of. I feel like CofD isn't as popular whereas One World of Darkness will be is because it's going to talk about the current state of events head on, which people really seemed to like out of oWoD. CofD is a better game, but people liked oWoD for being an immersive experience, and from that front I think that's why Paradox has more of an advantage that people think.
>>47977526
I've been out of the loop recently. Has anything come out since The Pack or whatever?
>>47978342
You're crazy if you think Masquerade is more immersive than any of the CofD lines. WoD's approach to "current issues" is why Apocalypse is a game about furry luddite ecoterrorists who gleefully murder countless human beings and Ascension is about steampunk zeppelins fighting space marines in Jupiter's orbit.
CofD cares more about personal horror and a believable world than any WoD line except maybe Wraith.
>>47978511
>WoD isn't goid, just look at all the cool shit you do in it!
>CofD is great, I mean everything is all about personal whining and being a bitch and NOTHING cool ever happens!
Hey I'm new to WoD, I've only played V:TMB, what version of the game should I start with? i would be playing with people in a similar boat as I am
>>47978563
Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition.
>>47978414
History book for nWoD, mage 2e.
>>47978613
History book? Do you mean dark ages or whatever? I thought that was before The Pack.
>>47978563
It depends. If you liked the world, with the huge over-arching story, get Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition.
If you liked the personal feel of the game, the story of a city falling apart, get Vampire: the Requiem 2nd Edition.
>>47977887
>>47978657
>>47978586
thank you guys I will look into both
>>47978701
The game is Masquerade, but it cuts away a lot of the clan structure of the game, leaving it much more personal.
In normal Masquerade games, your clan matters a LOT. In Bloodlines, it doesn't.
>>47978631
Dark Eras was out to backers before, but came up for general sale after The Pack. We got the Ghouls book for V20 and should get the Mummy fiction book next week.
>>47978511
>CofD cares more about personal horror and a believable world
But in exchange, it doesn't have the same kind of energy and passion that attracted people to the setting in the first place. There's no instant hook of having to fight the system or rage against the dying light, instead going for a tense and nervous energy with no element of catharsis.
We can make fun of furry Luddites and inter-dimensional zeppelins all we like, but it made people feel powerful and that they were tackling something bigger than themselves, even as the world collapsed around them. That's always going to be more attractive than a world where you can never truly figure out what's going on, and nothing will ever change except for the worst. oWoD is more escapist than nWoD ever was, and that will be its advantage as we enter a period of time where people will want as much escapism as they can get, even in their horror games.
>>47978786
Two different feels for two different audiences.
Personally, all that oWoD stuff you mentioned turns me off. If I wanted to be a superhero changing the world, I would play MnM or DnD.
CofD is more on the CoC side of roleplaying.
There is a world for both.
>>47978834
>a feel for those seeking fun
>and a feel for the masochistic, pussified emos
>There's a place for each.
I agree, the former belongs at the gaming table and the latter belongs in the trash.
>>47978786
To me, "I want to be an empowered person and fight the system!" isn't a terribly compelling fantasy, and certainly isn't a notion that gels with my vision of both universes as horror games. The narrative of being a vampire is about loss of self and horrific urges, of a normal person becoming something unnatural; that interpretation goes back to Dracula and even earlier. Taking that and using it to tell stories about combating the establishment or having a kung fu battle in the skies over India as the Biblical apocalypse begons... it has an audience, and that audience is pretty firmly not me.
Urban fantasy is largely fun because of relatable characters and scenery. oWoD was so much about abandoning all of that and being a powerful badass utterly wrapped up in another world (whether a political one of elders or quite literally going somewhere else in Werewolf and Mage) loses me and a lot of other people.
>>47978902
If you're here to attempt to typical name-calling sort of trolling, you are in the wrong general. This is /wodg/. Where 90% of the players are probably some sort of SJW, and we expect some kind of gender fluid character once per book.
You are out of your depth.
>>47978920
>loses me and a lot of other people
Good, we don't want "people" like you in the hobby.
>>47978786
Your argument falls apart in the face of Call of Cthulhu still being one of the most popular RPGs in existence and Delta Green doubling down on "your sanity spirals and you lose all of your interpersonal relationships before dying horribly or killing yourself" leading to a $400k Kickstarter.
Not every story needs to be about being powerful. Some of the most compelling ones are about the opposite of that.
Cool, I can share stories about the game I'm running, since I remember /wod/ complaining that nobody ever shares stories
I'm running V20 that has been going on for a while now. Here are the pcs:
1. Toreador. Used to be a singer, blood bound to her sire who lives in another country. Lost her reflection after embrace. Is the party face, somewhat insecure about her Appearance (used to be 2, increased to 3 via ghoul make up artist). She's the party spotter, being the only who has Auspex 5. Is not a fighter, however she did learn Protean 2 to not be completely defenseless.
2. Tremere. Her nature should've been Eye of the Storm, considering that she created the most chaos. Is blood bound to the council, and while feeling rebellious about the whole ordeal, still tries to prove to the clan that she is important and should be trusted with more tasks. To the point that she abandoned the party to complete her clan-related task. Is afraid of her own clan but is tsundere towards it. Has Lure of Flames as a primary path, but barely uses it. If she were a minmaxer, she could do some serious harm but she barely remembers the rituals she has, so it's fine. Has a Lasombra lover from Sabbat and managed to successfully hide that from everyone even OOC
3.Malkavian. A few years ago was a first time rper and so this character has went through a couple of makeovers until we figured out how to stop it from being a fishmalk. Is now fairly level-headed, aside from occasional outbursts of pure rage (Berserk derangement). Has a Diabolical Sire flaw, his sire runs a factory that sells thinblood blood to mortals. PC believes that thinbloods are a sign of the end times and as such helps his sire occasionally.
>>47978902
Complaining about emasochistic emos in a general for games where you play eternally lamenting vampires and their blood slaves seems a bit silly, no?
>>47979000
The way you're meant to play vampires is as supernatural, inhuman creatures who kick ass and take names when someone crosses them, because they're immortal superpredators.
>>47978902
How would you stat these eyes, /cofd/?
>>47979057
Special perception is a 1 dot power. But I wouldn't bother taking it, you could do the same with a simple perception roll.
>>47978974
4. Ventrue. Stereotypical controlling Ventrue who thinks she is better than everyone else. The only one who had Dominate 3 and unfortunately she has not been attending lately due to irl stuff, so the party has to find other ways to not break the Masquerade or cover their tracks. Gets very easily offended when anyone makes fun of her, both IC and OOC.
5. Brujah. Joined a few months ago, stereotypical no-nonsense Brujah, though the player maxed out Presence just for the possibility of making other vampires respect and worship her. Prefers to let her fists do the talking and is the one who is the most active in moving the plot. First time rper, so there were conflicts that were threatening the fun of the group (she always wanted things to go her way and the rest of the players to agree with everything she does, wants to be very alpha about everything), so we had to talk about it. PC is allergic to silver and scares mortals away.
6. Gangrel, joined even more recently. First time rper, very interested in the mechanics side of the game which I'm happy to discuss. Was on the verge of minmaxing but is actually a very respectable player and always worries whether or not he is doing something wrong. Invested heavily into combat stats and not much else and as such has become the only party tank, since nobody else has Fortitude. With the right rolls can one hit kill someone with his claws, but the dice have not been on his side. Has a flaw that makes his bite excruciatingly painful, but he enjoys it. Is probably the only one who roleplays as a vampire who truly considers humans as nothing but prey and as such is steadily sliding down in Humanity. Not necessarily cruel, but likes to show humans he is superior. Doesn't care that his feeding is painful, so he'll have to drop to Humanity 4
>>479775266 hours ago, still running right now, probably ending soon
>>47978968
Those are actual horror games, As soon as you step out of playing Mortal, you're either playing horror-flavored urban fantasy or horror-flavored drama.
>>47979194
Sounds like someone has never had an ST actually challenge them.
You just have to change the nature of the horror. It doesn't stop being horror just because the characters have a little taste of power. It just means they don't immediately realize they are powerless. Once it sets in, it is all the sweeter.
>>47977526
I have our twice-montly Masquerade LARP next weekend. Nothing until then.
>>47979194
You could easily run a Requiem chronicle with a bunch of freshly-Embraced people running around terrified of what they've become. Ditch the covenants, focus heavily on Touchstones and Humanity, and use the rules from Danse Macabre that makes Frenzy more common.
And Changeling needs zero work whatsoever to be devastating personal horror.
>>47979283
There is no actual horror in becoming an immortal superbeing with magic powers. There will be some discomfort, maybe a bit of crocodile tears and bellyaching about incompatibility with slave morality, but that won't last and it's all very shallow in any case.
>>47979348
If I were Embraced I'd face the sun the next fucking day.
>>47979348
Does anyone else run the Invicta like a crime family? Like referring to the Masquerade or vamparism as "This thing of ours" and the way ghouls jocky for position to become "Made"
>>47979154
The main plot right now is heavily tied to the local Tremere primogen summoning a demon to inhabit the body of a Brujah primogen. I read Demon the Fallen corebook and took some liberties with the possession mechanic for the sake of story.
The Brujah primogen asked the party whether they want to take part in his auction for the rich and powerful kindred. All they need to do is make sure that former Gangrel primogen doesn't ruin his party because they hate each other. He also asked them to deliver to him a relic that will be sold on the auction. It will arrive on a ship in a few hours.
The party agreed, went to talk to the Gangrel, discovered that some of the things on sale will be humans and started to doubt whether they want to be a part of that. On the other hand, Gangrel primogen was politically neutered and so could offer very little support despite being a killing machine.
So they decided to not join either of the side and go to the port to pick up the relic. It's a few pages of the Voynich manuscript with a picture of an odd flower.
They see Gangrel primogen in his owl form in the city and follow him. They discovered the location of the humans and decided to check on the, They saw the Gangrel primogen already there, freeing the humans.
As they look on, Brujah called her primogen and told him about this. The primogen arrives, goes into the house. They hear fighting and then something like an explosion.
>>47979485
Why would a several hundred year old feudal court pattern itself off a century old model?
>>47979568
Because it works better.
>>47978701
Hit the ground running on VtR2e with our review/overview http://networkzero.podbean.com/e/network-zero-2/
>>47979568
Its a smaller court that was headed by a relatively new prince. Its not a world wide change. Just a quirk I find fun and like to use when its appropriate
Some Elysiums include Local Restaurants or strip clubs
>>47979387
1) No you wouldn't, because you're a cowardly SJW.
2)You only say that because you're a cowardly SJW.
>>47977526
Running Geist, which will be set in Paris, and have crossover with Mage and Mummy.
So elements of alchemy, the catacombs, and other bits, to act as a bit of a tour of the CofD games.
>>47979529
Gangrel comes out but his eyes are different. Whatever is looking through them is not him anymore. They have a brief chat, the "Gangrel" seems to be fairly happy with what just occurred. Brujah plays on his good mood and asks him to show them what he really is, to which he obliges.
A shining knight appears in front of them, forcing them all to roll for rotschreck. The man smiles and then leaves.
They decide to not get in his way right now and go to the Gangrel's forest as this is where they his the manuscript.
They get the manuscript (had to fight a ghouled bear who was guarding the forest) and in the process the Toreador notices that after few drops of blood fell on the manuscript, the flower started to move a bit, to get all the drops; a phantom item also started to appear above it. So she decides to feed it with blood, hoping that it will unlock whatever it is.
The manuscript begins to repair itself with blood, and by the end looks like it was just written. A small silver key appears above it they hear a voice, both male and female speaking to them
"To open the first gates of heaven, bring the soul of the believer and blood of the sinner".
The key disappeared but after the manuscript spoke, the party felt somehow inspired and invigorated (mechanically it gave them -2 diff to their next degeneration roll).
Remember the mortals who were to be sold at the auction? They took one of them. At first they just wanted to release him after erasing his memory, but then the fights and the bloodletting have left them hungry, so they decided to just drain him
As soon as he died, they felt a gust of wind and a slight sucking sound came from the manuscript. It also became a bit heavier.
>>47978511
I generally agree with you, but you have to admit, that description of Ascension is fucking awesome.
>>47979754
Have you read Chris' material on Werewolf in Paris? He came up with two new Idigam that were incredible and may be of use to you.
>>47979786
Is that in Dark Era's? Or in Forsaken 2e? My mind is running a blank on which book to look in right now.
>>47979781
The party wisely decides not to go further with what the manuscript wants and just stored it away.
In the forest they also found a cave where Gangrel primogen lived and found an unfinished letter to the Nosferatu primogen, so they decided to go and check on him.
When they descend into the sewers, they find his rats being slaughtered by countless homeless cats and dogs. They manage to find one rat that lead them to the Nos who was Obfuscating in his haven full of monitors that show different parts of the city.
He wasn't happy to see them and he and Brujah got into intense argument, during which they all got attacked by the Sabbat party. One of whom was Tremere's lover, one was a Nos and the other was Ventrue's sire. There was no combat at first, as the Sabbat has suggested the party gives them the Nos primogen and they all go their ways.
They initially agreed until Brujah got pissed and started combat. As this is happening, Toreador notices a new message that came up on Nos pc. She gets closer and sees that there has been a Blood Hunt declared on them all as they are thought to have killed the Brujah primogen.
Party wins the combat and manages to stake both the Lasombra and the Ventrue. Lasombra goes to Gangrel who wants to blood bond him; Ventrue goes to the Ventrue pc who at that point in the game had to leave.
They talk to the Nos and persuade him to help them out a bit for saving his life. He gives them the keys to one of his havens outside the city while the blood hunt is going on. They sleep in the sewers.
Tremere manages to persuade the Gangrel that she should have access to Lasombra at certain moments, as she wants to test her blood magic on him.
They then try to hunt, but this being winter in game and outside the city, they are having little luck. Then Tremere botches the hunting roll.
>>47979873
On the forums, in the "new Idigam" thread. He does some great stuff with the catacombs.
>>47980062
Link to it. I can't navigate those darn forums. They are a mess.
>>47979734
>Not wanting to become a gluttonous leech, only existing to be staked by superior Hunters and Mortals
>SJW cowardice
Go back to /torpr/, Gustav.
>>47980047
She runs into a werewolf and combat culminated with Brujah driving a taxi into the thing. She didn't kill it and werewolf saw that he was outnumbered, so he used Obfuscate and disappeared.
The party wisely decides to get out of there before the police arrives and go towards the Nos haven. On their way Tremere gets paranoid and decides to go to her relatives' farm while the Brujah goes to the Nos haven.
The farm has nothing, however Tremere receives a phone call from someone unknown. As she told her sire that their primogen is conducting some suspicious activity, sire contacted the capital chantry and shared that information. As such a high-ranking representative has now arrived and wants to meet with her and the party. They agree and inform the Brujah
Brujah meanwhile has entered the Nos haven and it's a hoarder's dream. There's so much garbage that the small home has trods you need to walk on, otherwise it's completely impossible. He does find a secret passage that leads into the sewers.
They then all go to the place the Tremere rep told them about; it's outside the city limits, a small cafe near the highway.
They meet with him, a short man with glasses, who says that he received worrying news about the local primogen. The party tell him that they think she is a Baali (something they discovered when talking to the Nos primogen) because in the past few days various insects have been attracted to her and now inhabit the chantry.
The representative is concerned about this, but he cannot just openly accuse her without any proof other than the word of mouth. So he asks them to either obtain some of her blood or some other proof that she is involved with infernalism.
This is when Brujah tell him that there's a blood hunt on them and tells what they witnessed when some sort of spirit took over first the Brujah primogen and then the Gangrel
>>47980215
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/werewolf-the-forsaken/436971-new-idigam
Try cheating on google. Google site:forums.theonyxpath.com "search term"
>>47980215
First page on the Werewolf forum, anon.
forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/werewolf-the-forsaken/436971-new-idigam
>all these nameposting faggots
>>47980449
>>47980431
Meh. It is easier to get a direct path from people who actually go there.
I'm not deep enough in the wod hole to really go to the forum.
>>47980536
Your fault for not registering your 4chan account, you can turn off all the names and trips in the settings.
>>47980369
Uncomfortable silence ensues as the representative did not know about the blood hunt. It is however too late to back down, so he is still willing to work with him.
Of course it is now difficult for them to operate in the city, so a nice Persuasion roll from Brujah gets all of them a small enchanted ring that boosts stealth. Tremere rep also produces a small vial that will take the blood of whoever touches it, so that they can try and use it on a primogen. Or they can try and break into the chantry; it will have blood samples from every member.
They have agreed to help, as they were promised a sizeable boon from the clan as a whole, and the Tremere pc was promised advancement she so craves.
They left the cafe and agreed to stay in touch. They then call the Nos and persuade him to meet up to try and fish more information out of him. They succeed by mentioning that they have a lot of his stuff from his haven that was destroyed by the Sabbat. As the Nos was a hoarder, he decided to risk it.
They meet up and beg Nos to tell them if he knows anything about the blood hunt. He does, and gloats that the prince has assembled a team to find them.
They also ask him if he would testify that the Brujah primogen wasn't killed by them, but by the Sabbat. Nos does'nt want to be the only one, so he agrees only if they can get any 2 other primogen to testify as well. If they make some politics rolls, they will be able to tell who can be approached, as there are some who are definitely not fond of the Tremere primogen ans the amount of power she wields in the city.
As they part ways with the Nos, they hear a car approaching. The doors open and party sees a group of vampires: 2 Ventrue, a ghoul, a Toreador and the Toreador pc's sire, who seems to be held hostage. While the party is freaking out as to how they were found out, the ghoul tries to tell them that combat isn't necessary and that if they just come with them, then they will be judged fairly
>>47980644
The party rightly thinks this is bullshit and half decide to hide, while the more aggressive half decide to fight. Toreador pc couldn't resist the compulsion to save her sire (she ran out of willpower) and so started to sneakily go towards him, while the rest of the party scattered around the area.
Brujah got heavily wounded by the Toreador-hunter, Toreador pc almost reunited with her sire who in the end Obfuscated to avoid the combat (he was basically taken hostage and forced to take part in the blood hunt), Gangrel was in the process of tearing the Toreador-hunter to shreds and the rest were hiding/helping out from the sides.
This is where we ended, Brujah called the Nos primogen and demanded help, but with that attitude he is not going to do anything. Brujah is the one in real danger of actually dying, though she did get saved by an old man living nearby, who dragged her into his home.
>>47980628
But that would make you unable to quickly identify the faggots.
And filtering them makes you unable to understand what's going on in a thread sometimes.
If I did make Twilight as a WoD visual novel, what should the characters be?
I've been needing an excuse to use RenPy or something. Obviously the main character could be male or female, and there would be gay werewolves.
>>47980536
>Actually giving a shit
I hate newfags. Always wanting to be part of LEEJUN to join the cool kids.
>>47977887
Let's start with an Orwell quote
>"We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men."
Why
>do I feel that
Chronicles so much shittier than WoD?
What was it that made the original line so popular?
Why did they choose it as a setting for the two WoD games that I personally remember?
Is the reason that Executives at Paradox renamed the new line Chronicles because the old world of darkness is still more popular?
What are the specific details that make me think of oWoD as an interesting setting?
Have I missed any similarly cool ideas in the new line?
Please, let's discuss this together.
I am going to need at least a whole post to unpack
>cucked out
>whiny bitch
>SJWism
>>47977994
>2) The setting isn't any less interesting. It's more modular, yes, but it is also free of Malkavian Pranksters and things like Samuel Haight.
That was already the case with nWoD.
Chronicles is nWoD 2.0, and I have to agree that it's worse off quality wise.
The fiction is worse (Some of it is just straight up bad), they've filled off a lot of the individuality of splats, and it's not entirely clear if some of the writers get the setting itself.
>4) Higher degree of SJWism? The only reason the term SJW wasn't applied to old WW games is that it wasn't invented back then.
That's dumb and wrong in so many ways I can't even count it.
Ignoring the repeated and, quite frankly true, accusations of racism, tokenism, and focus on rape that were floating about there was literally no way it would be accepted by that camp if it had come out today.
What WoD has always had was a very interesting take on the notion of identity, whether that identity be sexual, racial, cultural, national or whatever else have you.
>>47981013
boring
Are there any geist powers that let me....
Like Green Lantern my way through things? Like create something like giant spectral fists to pummel the heck out of some fool ghost, or create a plasm cage to trap some mortals?
>>47981033
That post is incredibly meta.
>>47978942
>This is /wodg/. Where 90% of the players are probably some sort of SJW, and we expect some kind of gender fluid character once per book.
>You are out of your depth.
Oh shit, am I in the wrong neighborhood?
>tfw one of the 10%
>>47981013
>Ignoring the repeated and, quite frankly true, accusations of racism, tokenism, and focus on rape that were floating about there was literally no way it would be accepted by that camp if it had come out today.
That's because that camp has evolved. Read Children of Gaia and tell me old White Wolf wasn't "SJW".
>>47981121
I dunno. Ask yourself this:
A player at your table has a character that no longer identifies as any gender, because when they were attacked in their youth, their attachment to the status quo romance around them was shattered and they have no wish to go back. They ignore, sometimes actively, any attempts at romance aimed at them.
Does this bother or annoy you? Or is this just something bound to happen because you are playing world of darkness/chronicles of darkness?
>>47980890
Finish the Geist thing. Write a second draft of any of your projects. Finish. Your. Work.
>>47981190
If this happened at my table, I'd probably eventually get into an argument that this was a sexuality (since I'm too polite to point out that it's a disorder), rather than a gender.
>>47981280
>Able to argue gender vs sexuality
You my friend, are part of the 90%.
>>47981068
Also, no one else can see what your geist does right?
Like if my character's geist manifests itself to him as a crown of grapes (that have human facial features) that whisper stuff in his ear, no one will see that or hear it?
>>47981190
Anon, that individual is ace. They may also be agender, but that description is sex-repuksed asexual which has zero to do with gender identity.
>>47981149
No, what they were were fucking hippies.
The anti-corporate pseudo-enviromentalist paternalistic racism that suffuses the entirety of oWoD and a good chunk of nWoD bears witness to that, and the two are not the same.
That is ignoring the parts of nWoD which aren't just straight up racist. Like, not paternalistic "Magical injun" shit, but just straight up lazy propagation of racist stereotypes because creativity is fucking hard.
The writing crop gradually got replaced, SJWs replacing hippies.
Ultimately both are left of center, both like to tell stories that explore the notion of identity (Which, as I've said, is something WoD has always done super well.), and I find myself sympathetic to both over their detractors.
However that does not mean they are the same.
>>47981331
This anon is also SJW.
>>47981190
Why does avoiding romance have to be some kind of gender thing? The last thing I want to do in a game is a romance plot, and I'm far from whatever kind of thing you're talking about.
>>47981349
>Deliberately using the word wrong to dilute it's meaning.
Why tho?
>>47981375
Who said it has to be? With this person it just is.
>>47981121
>Oh shit, am I in the wrong neighborhood?
Nigger, you're on 4chan. That faggot is just shitposting his feelings at you. While /tg/ is a bit more SJW than average, and this general more so than even /tg/, sensible people are still the majority.
Would you allow a transgender player character at your table?
>>47981404
Keep telling yourself that. While the whole thread around you is about the feels of gender-fluid vampires and rape recovering 'survivor' changelings.
If it makes you feel better, that's what is important.
>>47981428
Why wouldn't I?
Would probably be played better than guys playing as girls.
>>47981404
>While /tg/ is a bit more SJW than average
There it was. I just now realized the term SJW has completely and utterly lost all meaning.
>>47981428
I don't see why not.
Well, I wouldn't do it in changeling.
It's simply too easy to turn a serious question of identity into some truly inadvertently transphobic shit.
>>47981488
There's nothing wrong with an abrupt shift in identity after trauma. It'd only be transphobic if the implication were all trans people were so due to trauma.
>>47981477
Good. I mean, the rest of us realized it lost all meaning as soon as 4chan started throwing it around to mean anyone they didn't like.
Glad you caught up though.
>>47981517
Oh, I've understood it intellectually for a while. It was just there that it truly got through to me.
>>47981517
I've got a feeling the term was used about you by 4chan at some point, I also have a feeling it was pretty justified.
>>47981512
I don't think that's the only way that could turn transphobic.
I mean ignoring the iffy question of trauma turning anyone transgender (Raising some pretty dodgy questions about nature v nurture on that front, that are just a liiiittle too easy to get to steer on the wrong side), there's also the matter of portraying being trans gender as being a literal fairy.
>>47981190
>>>47981121 (You)
>I dunno. Ask yourself this:
You know, not too make this too much about me, but honestly I have never had this conversation, and wouldn't mind thinking out loud if it doesn't derail the thread too much.
The modern gender identity discussions confuse the hell out of me though...
Now my favorite author (if I was forced to choose) is Iain M. Banks, because of his Culture series.
The people in the Culture can tell their bodies to shift from male to female and back in a couple of months. Or choose to stay in the androgynously neutral inbetween state.
Most of them live long enough that they end up fathering one child, and giving birth to another.
One character in 'The Player of Games' is sad because his best friend wont sleep with him, because he has never been a girl and doesn't really ever want to go through that, also she thinks he is somehow 'too obsessed' with having sex with her.
>>47981344
There is no difference between a Hippie and an SJW in the greater narrative context. It's the same shit, just repackaged and headquartered over the internet as opposed to being headquartered in the Haight-Ashbury. You keep trying to claim that SJWs are somehow new and different, but you can't actually explain how. Identity Politics separatists have been a thing since the 70s, hardline Marxists have existed before the Cold War, and a lot of the hyper-specific community aspects have been around since 90s Usenet. The only reason anyone calls them Social Justice Warriors is because it was a liberal/left-liberal term of criticism that got co-opted by the alt-right/mainstream right once they started gaining power.
The Hippies weren't replaced by the SJWs, the main White Wolf influencers have been more or less the same over the 1999-2016 period. It's just that their always left-leaning topics shifted as the culture of the left shifted.
>tfw you've gamed with all of one cishet person in your life, two if you count your past self
Feels weird? I assumed tabletop was always full of queer folk.
This place is gonna go apeshit when Promethean 2e comes out and is full of nonstandard pronouns.
>>47981604
That's weird, because I feel like I recognize that author name, but looking through his books, I haven't read anything of his.
That is a funny dilemma to have, only born through the speculative world he has created. That sounds like a good read just from that situation alone.
>>47981428
Possibly.
Depends if I trust the player to not be a gigantic faggot about it.
>>47981512
I don't know, hasn't the LGBT community come to terms with the whole nine-out-of-ten-were-molested thing yet? My understanding - please keep in mind I only have a couple relevant friends - is that that's the accepted explanation for why homosexual domestic abuse is so much more common than heterosexual and why transgender suicide rates do not decrease post-op/post-hormones, because psychiatric help is both shunned and deliberately disconnected from the sexuality/gender thing so no one is getting the help they need because they're afraid of invalidating themselves, which is horrifying, and consequential.
Honestly I feel like Changeling is really good at exploring that kind of thing - where you've got everything all tangled up and twisted behind these pretty, pointless lies. There's any number of social cross-sections that can fit that model. It's just about handling the issue with respect rather than with disgust, fear, or loathing, which is where the -phobias (I hate -phobias, it's such a bad choice of nomenclature, arachnophobia doesn't lead to correctively raping spiders even in World of Darkness) enter in.
>>47981597
I've been called an SJW plenty of times on 4chan. For everything from actually defending feminism, to something as small as saying a character was ugly for being too skinny to have internal organs.
It doesn't take much.
>>47981459
>guys playing as girls
You allow guys to play female characters?
Does them being female ever meaningfully inform something about their characters?
>>47981653
Not just that, with Matt's track record the mechanics are going to be all over the fucking place too.
>>47981673
>the local Azlu are correctively raping humans to fix their arachnophobia
This is a terrifying plot hook.
>>47981688
Depends on the player really. For some it doesn't matter at all (which can be for the best). For others they just try to hit on every guy they can, assuming every male character can be seduced.
>>47981612
Identity politics started in the 70s, sure, and many of the current left leaning crop take their cues from many of the same people who were active back then, of course.
But that the politics of the newer generation have roots in the older generation, does not make the two political positions similar, nor does the fact that they share people.
The identity politics of Onyx Path share no real resemblence with the enviromental concerns, anti-nationhood (Internationalism), anti-corporatism of the writing crop of white wolf in the 90 or even early to mid 00s.
The only, ONLY, common factor you seem to actually point to is that they're both left.
>>47981715
>terrifying
Uh, yeah, totally!
>>47981673
I don't think that works, since many realized they were gay early enough that being molested wouldn't be the reason they were gay.
Likely, molestation coincides with LGBT, instead of causing it. Our sexualities seem to start forming super early, morphing in big ways at first and then taking on small quirks as we get to our teens.
Molestation or abuse just doesn't make sense as a prime cause.
>>47981653
I'm emotionally drained since Beast just barely dodged going full-faggot on release only to have ArcaneArts get official sanction to include its "evil is good, worship evil, rape the patriarchy" slobber in the Storyteller book. Wordcount that could have gone to new powers or some fucking errata on the atavism action types.
Socially-weak boys seeking to crawl underneath the hierarchy and turn their failings into fetishbait for degenerates are nothing, anon. It's shit writers vomiting garbage into the mechanics that gives me the wild dickens.
>>47981657
Another author I like is Ursula K. Leguin (mostly for A Wizard of Earthsea)
But she has a book The Left Hand of Darkness that I liked partly because of how it explored an alien civilization centrally influenced by their androgyny and fluid shifts from male to female.
>>47981848
I fucking loathe ArcaneArts and have no idea why they were hired. They're an inflammatory asshole with nothing good to say.
>>47981848
Was there a Beast STG released? Did it fix anything at all or did it all go to shit with that fuckhead AA blowing it all to hell like you said?
>>47981848
>>47981872
wtf is an ArcaneArts?
>>47981872
Let's be real here, a lot of people working for Onyx Path are just straight up bad at their job.
That's how this shit happens.
>>47981688
Personally, I find that there's a world of difference between roleplaying a middle aged woman and a middle aged man.
You can't for instance, really pull off being nurturing and threatening at the same time with a male character.
>>47981914
>can't for instance, really pull off being nurturing and threatening at the same time with a male character.
>>47981738
>For some it doesn't matter at all (which can be for the best). For others they just try to hit on every guy they can, assuming every male character can be seduced.
This is also my experience. But can't there be a third option?
How do you make a character meaningfully female.
Nightmare mode:
>keep both sexuality, and the reproductive organs out of it.
>>47981914
You are so wrong it physically hurts me.
You can't pull of a scary MATERNAL figure, but if you can't imagine a scary paternal figure you're simply bad at creativity.
>>47981790
So homosexuality is like a prey-trait? I guess that's possible, and maybe would explain why there IS that whole thread of "sexuality formed super early." I don't think straights do that; I don't think they have sexuality in any socially-measurable sense prior to puberty. Before that it's just vague ideas about marriage and boyfriends/girlfriends and for some reason adults like kissing and maybe some awareness that they have pleasurable nerve endings between their legs, but probably not. But LGBT people are always like "yeah when I was 4 I knew."
I was like 11 the first time it occurred to me that there was something PHYSICALLY INTERESTING about the opposite sex, and 13 before I had any concept of what. If you asked me at 4 which gender I was into I would have said "Legos."
>>47981929
That's more threatening and protective. Like 'don't date my daughter or I'll blow your head off' sort of protective.
>>47981894
Also he once did a podcast on youtube called Echoes Darkly.
>>47981938
I used to run a game in which two of the players were a trans girl and a dude, both playing women.
They both started hitting on every woman at all times including each other, and would describe their outfits a LOT.
It was super awkward.
>>47981947
Legos are still pretty cool though.
>>47981947
Likely you didn't realize because it wasn't important. What you were experiencing was normal and treated as such, so your mind didn't need to flag it as out of the ordinary.
When everyone around you is like 'and you'll get a girlfriend' and your brain is like 'lol nope', that is worth flagging at a young age.
>>47981939
I can't imagine a paternal figure who is both meaningfully comforting and meaningfully threatening to the literal exact same people, no.
>>47981991
My brain was like "lol nope" until I was 13, and I'm so fucking straight it's actually weird.
>>47981996
Congrats, I also can't imagine a maternal figure who is both meaningfully comforting and meaningfully threatening to the literal exact same people.
Because people are different and you have to apply different kinds of pressure to them to scare them, ya dingus.
>>47981894
an INCREDIBLE piece of shit famous for massive, wordy rants about how the most degenerate interpretation of Beasts - rapey superbullies enacting petty vengeance on acceptable targets - is INHERENTLY NOBLE because it's only the patriarchy that makes you believe maiming and killing is wrong, but Beasts are blessed beyond weakling human morality and have the true soul-strength to achieve justice and glory in this world, by molesting bankers or whatever.
ArcaneArts is the kind of person who spends all day sucking off their pseudoradical feminist friends on Twitter but has a made-to-order body pillow decorated with hair clippings it stole that it fucks while stabbing and screaming misogynist obscenities until it passes out from overload every weekend. You know the type. Abortion for a soul.
This fucking thing is now onboard as part of the Beast team. It does nothing but prowl the Beast boards, start fights about faggotry, and contribute blocks of garbage text with no validity or purpose other than promoting its filth.
>>47981938
Stereotypical feminine behavior. Close touching, long eye contact and physical proximity. Physical submissive behavior (being subject to the largeness of others). Household caring and control (when someone is ill, heal them. When people are hungry, feed them).
Mind you, men can and do all of these things too. But as a culture, we see them as female activities.
>>47981929
Lecter in the Starling era (novels) and played by that Nazi-looking guy (TV series) does a pretty good job of it.
>>47981996
>Dat moved goalpost.
>>47981991
>>47982011
Same as other anon. Girls were gross and adult commentary was uncomfortable and weird. I definitely wanted no part of the opposite sex, except the occasional cool exceptions (who were EXCEPTIONS, not attractive), until my dick started acting up.
Gays seem to have some kind of sex drive right from birth, which might tie into why they're so likely to be molested, they're immediately ready to fuck/be fucked on some primal physical level predators can smell. Or maybe the molestation does cause the homosexuality and the whole "I totally had a gender preference at 5" thing is like how everyone and their mother knew Satanic cults had abused them as children in 80s, just cultural influence rewriting our incredibly shaky and unstable memories.
>>47982039
>rapey superbullies enacting petty vengeance on [whoever the fuck they want]
>ftfy
This is what is so weird about Beast to me.
It makes zero effort to point you at acceptable targets, instead of making children into fuck-pillows to sell to sadistic pedophile Slashers, or worse.
>>47981760
Huh, I expected oglaf.
>>47982132
Or, and big or, 'knowing they are gay' doesn't mean they wanted sex. It just meant they knew something was different.
Attaching homosexuality to your internal image of two dudes having sweaty sex is the same mistake that old crotchety republicans. Realizing they are gay doesn't have to mean they had any sexual urge at all.
>>47982161
ArcaneArts adds that back in.
>>47981996
See >>47982077. That is definitely simultaneously nurturing and threatening to the same person.
>>47981991
The entire concept of getting a girlfriend seemed like a sham for losers because girls had shit hobbies and know nothing cool to talk about. I was baffled why would I waste a good portion of my time on that, up until I was 14. (At which point it was all a weird clusterfuck because the guys and girls were all internally grappling with the same emerging sexual identity shit but lacking the experience necessary to realise that others were)
Unfortunately, given the decade of experience since, my initial hypothesis was pretty spot on. I have met only a handful of women that haven't been fucking ruined as human beings by female socialisation and gender roles and they're out of my league. It is a tragedy that we go out of our way to intellectually cripple 50% of our population.
>>47982171
I had no idea I'd be interested in girls ever. Girls mature faster, but they still don't understand they want boys for anything until early puberty.
If being gay provides some awareness of what you want at ALL, that's definitely an accelerated sexual instinct that would explain the targeting, because straight people have the same "no ew gross" reaction to the opposite sex and no sense that it's going to someday change.
>>47982244
I wish this wasn't true. I'm all for equality, but childhood and high school are formative in a lot of ways, and women are largely formed into half-retarded meat. I know from the exceptions a better world is possible but I also know from how alien the exceptions are (intimidating to guys, incomprehensible - not in the causes-drama sense, just literally "I don't understand" - to other girls) the scope of the concerted effort to fuck them up is insaaane.
I can kind of understand why it happened, the appeal in people that never fully develop into challengers and respond exclusively to perceived status and power, but it's just such a fucking waste.
>>47982161
Needless to say, our long review of the book was not taken kindly.
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/438-darker-days-radio?p=903108#post903108
>>47982161
>fuck-pillows to sell to sadistic pedophile Slashers
Was this actually in a fucking book?
>>47982369
And more importantly, is there a system for finding proper Slasher NPCs to sell said fuck-pillows to?
Advice on how to actually run a decent horror Hunter game?
>>47982347
By what, 3 people?
That's nothing.
>>47982406
Well it certain demonstrated that people are more than happy playing out and out evil monsters with no redeeming features.
Pretty much everywhere else the review was considered fair.
>>47982396
You never truly succeed at your first session/encounter.
Maybe in the future, when they have properly planned, they could have something that feels like a victory. But you never truly succeed at first.
Examples of first encounters I've had in hunter games.
>Person they were trying to protect is killed, and one of the PCs nearly gets drained dry by a Vampire.
>Whole crew assaulted by a slasher team for no reason but location, one of their close friends is kidnapped.
>A terrible cultish family turns out to have a super monster as their leader, that has been alive for centuries, and doesn't take kindly to guests. A PC died.
Set in the minds of the players that they are not superheroes. They are the light against the darkness, and they will only succeed with great effort, some luck, and having the fear of god in them.
That is how I do it at least.
>>47982396
General tips and tricks in this series we did. http://podcast.darker-days.org/e/darker-days-radio-darkling-20-chronicle-design-part-1/
>>47982347
Fuck, now I am curious enough that I will waste 2 hours on listening you explain why Beast is bad, when I already have plenty of reasons not to like it.
Oh well.
>>47982393
>And more importantly, is there a system for finding proper Slasher NPCs to sell said fuck-pillows to?
Arcanthus has you covered.
>>47982809
DaveB, plz don't nerf this, I like my powerwank, buff the other Arcana instead.
So are the individual splat Chronicles out yet? I can't find them in the OP or in the PDF troves.
>>47983087
They're the 2E editions of nWoD
>>47983087
>individual splat Chronicles
What do you mean by this?
The Core 2e is out.
>>47983140
My bad for not being specific. I meant these.
http:
//www.
drivethrurpg.com/product/138981/The-Idigam-Chronicle-Anthology
>>47981939
>He's never heard of Mommy Dearest
>>47983221
Not him, but maybe you should stop being such a smug faggot and explain.
>>47983551
We were talking about stern females
>nurturing and threatening at the same time
He brings up one of the most toxic examples of "motherhood" ever filmed.
>NO WIRE HANGERS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUkE9qaVgmo
if you are wondering how they got in the houseThe hangers came with the dry-cleaning, it was the daughter's "job" to remove them.
>>47983551
A character who is maternal in a scary way
Also known as a terrible mother
>>47983636
Based on a supposedly true autobiography by Joan Crawford's Daughter (with some info from her son) after they were left out of the 'Queen of Hollywood's' will "for reasons which are well known to them."
TELL US ABOUT YOUR FAVORITE HUNTER CELLS AND OTHER FUN STORIES FROM YOUR GAMES
>>47981635
>past self
>past
Anon, if it changed, it probably wasn't that way in the first place.
One of my favorite ways to describe the distinction between
Classic World of Darkness and New/Chronicles is this:
Imagine the old as a fun rollercoaster - fun and memorable entertainment; and the New as a Skate Park - a playground to do your thing.
Which is better entertainment? It depends on the person.
Opinions like this:
>>47977887
>the fact that Chronicles doesn't have an interesting setting
just highlight the fact that making something of CofD is HARD WORK.
>>47982171
I don't think anon was trying to imply that underage gays literally want(ed?) to fuck, but was thinking something more along the lines of what >>47981947 was saying with the phrase "prey-trait".
Like, maybe that early awareness is part of what causes kiddy-diddlers to single them out?
Fuck if I know.
>>47984088
>if it changed, it probably wasn't that way in the first place
I like how the most "open-minded" like to impose their norms on others...
>>47984193
If you demonize the normative society as the enemy that is the cause of all of your suffering, you need to mentally distance yourself from them, otherwise you have to take responsibility for once being average.
This is why zebras are always black with white stripes, when it comes to people who at certain periods felt attracted to the same sex and at other times not.
It is easier for everyone involved if the 'periods of straightness' were just you deluding yourself.
>>47984368
>periods of straightness were just you deluding yourself
Or, you know, bisexuality
>>47984418
Is there a different term for
>attracted to both now
and
>I was attracted to different stuff 6 years ago
>>47984479
Not that I'm aware of. besides 'Questioning' As in you don't know your state at certain times.
>>47984479
Probably "delusional" and "self-destruction fetishization" and "internalized homophobia." I know someone who became gay after being sexually assaulted violently in their adolescence, but then went back to being mostly straight after they'd been through a few years of therapy. Not gay conversion therapy, PTSD therapy by a normal therapist.
They're an atheist. The therapist never indicated any religious preference or pushed anything on them as regards their sexuality. But this kind of story is verboten to the LGBT community at large and any indication that sexual preference may be something other than your Soul Destiny is a dangerous sentiment unless you are very careful to espouse, over and over again, how it is unique and individual to you and how you're probably just retarded anyway.
Tolerance is what the enemy must have for you. You do not tolerate the enemy.
>>47984539
Unless you were certain in the past, and feel no uncertainty now.
Just a clear feeling that
>past self =/= current self
>>47984479
Living the lie?
Setting up shop in your closet?
>>47984479
Uh, maybe, I don't know. Progressivism already has more than enough labels for people, boxes within boxes, and I think that the more you add the more restrictive they get. At the end of the day we're all individuals.
Like ladies and not dudes? Congratulations, you're straight, or heteroflexible, or whatever word works for you. Was it different in the past? Then in the past you were something different.
>BUT YOU CAN'T CHANGE YOUR SEXUALITY!
I say fuck that noise. People change. People can't STOP changing.
It's not a choice, I never specifically chose to like chocolate, but when I was a kid I hated chocolate and now I don't, shit happens.
>>47984618
>Setting up shop in your closet?
Can becoming straight be a coming out of the closet?
>>47984647
If you're on Tumblr
>>47984604
>Another amazing internet tale that never happened.
You have a story to tell, and I appreciate that.
>>47984604
It's not as bad as 4chan or tumbler portray it to be,. Actually I think that "your sexuality can't change!" was a knee-jerk response to the political debate about homosexuality and now that that has cooled off and gays are more accepted (not completely but moreso) it seems like liberals are that much less likely to have that response, and more likely to accept if you say that you were gay in college and now call yourself straight.
I have this theory about a kind of dissonance-feedback-loop, that happens as a growing pain in society, where everyone is reacting to each other's reactions and then over time it all just dies down as they stop and listen to each other? Something like that.
But yea the sense of orthodoxy in progressivism is still very real and dangerous. Progressivism isn't supposed to be a church, it's supposed to be a conversation, there is no room for knee-jerk bigotry. I think the latest one I heard is the idea that you're a bad person if public breastfeeding makes you uncomfortable (even if you aren't imposing that on anyone) because it's wrong to sexualize breasts. Like, what in the actual fuck? How is it wrong to sexualize ANY body part? How is it ever wrong to FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE? There are times when your feelings aren't the most important thing in the room (liberals are VERY GOOD at applying this to others and VERY BAD at applying this to themselves), but your feelings are never actually wrong, you just need to take responsibility for them. I mean, I think that babies getting fed is more important than anyone's prudishness, and if I have to look away from (or accidentally stare at and feel guilty) a nice pair of swollen tits, I can deal with that, I'm not saying it should be otherwise, but damn.
>>47984698
Do you just disbelieve every story on the internet? Because if so that's fine, you just uh, keep doing your thing.
Or do you think that his story is implausible? Because that would be silly of you.
Luckily none of this will matter when the neo-monarchists take power with whatever AI they dream up.
>>47984829
I think your story could have happened once. Don't think it is anywhere near common.
>>47984848
Amen brother.
>>47984788
I think your idea that those knee-jerk reactions are becoming any sort of church is silly. I mean anyone can say literally whatever they want. There is no established school of thought saying that disliking breast-feeding makes you bad even if you take no discriminatory action. That is just a small group of people saying that specific thing.
Come back once there is a codified group of rules about it, followed by all progressives, or at least respected as part of an allied canon of progressive rules.
In the meantime you are just belly-aching.
>>47984848
Actually I firmly believe that things are going steeply down hill from here. And of course they've been going steadily up-hill for a few hundred years. So that one day 1900-2100 or so will be looked back on as a golden age of human freedom, just like the medieval world used to look back on Rome.
I'm not saying that pompous oligarchs WON'T invent Friend Computer and take over the world, that is one of many completely insane things which I think is highly plausible. What I'm saying is that, above the 50-story hive of dingy steal and plastic that covers most terrestrial landmass, above the smog layer and the acid clouds, on a floating city whose occupants must replace the whole thing every 7 years, there will be a teenage aristocrat who thinks he is part of the ruling class. And he will fill his little palace with sex toys and disco swag and McDonalds merchandise and lolcats posters, so that all his visitors will see how enlightened he is.
>>47984977
Meh. I think we are just going to keep going up. We have a few hiccups, but mostly based on us outpacing our own progress.
We are automating a bunch of jobs, but we don't have rules in place to handle all the people who won't have jobs. We are working on it, but people don't want to get it done faster.
We are starting to fix the environment as best we can, but we don't want to stand up to countries that have no real pollution rules (like China) that will make all the work for nothing.
We could do great, Humanity is awesome. We just have to hope the coin flip is on our side.
>>47984884
Original anon: and you think it isn't common because the narrative is that it isn't common. Of course, the narrative used to be that homosexuality was literally demonic influence, and in some places still is.
Maybe a majority of gay people honestly don't have childhood trauma as a root cause, you certainly believe that. I suspect it the other way (I guess I should note that I don't ascribe any moral component to being gay, I'm not Christian, I have my own sexual abnormalities, this isn't a judgment thing) but what I KNOW is that we are not collecting good, useful data and compiling it because too many competing interests HAVE narratives to push and very little concern for the actual content of a human life.
To be blunt I don't think the LGBT movement as a whole is good for the LGBT community. "But rights," you might say, but that's basically an everybody-who-isn't-Republican thing now. I think a lot of the fetishization the movement has for the LGBT lifestyle is dangerous, harmful, and confining to anyone who doesn't fit their Soul Destiny image. People know about how rabid Tumblr feminists can be turning on each other, but gay people (plus lesbians, less so transgender because trans girls are generally submissive shrinking violets and there are like two actual trans men on the planet) have been worse for longer about that.
Solidarity is very important when you have an enemy to fight, granted. But it's a real short jump from "we all need to pull together" to "you will pull together or else." I guess I feel like sexuality is still pretty mysterious, often interweaves with mental health (for everyone, not just LGBT either), but is something a lot of people have made up their minds on how it's going to be. And that's bad to me.
Mostly I want more people to just go to the fucking brain doctor, before they end up as yet another abusive gay couple or dead trans teen who thought hormones would save her from being sad.
>>47984942
As a progressive, I don't think that most progressives are as open to new ideas as you make them out to be.
I'm not saying it's bad, I literally think that yo owe every good thing in your life to the progressives of the past and the future. I'm saying that there is an orthodoxy forming here, especially when you talk to feminist scholars and the people who should know better, and it worries me.
Okay, here's another one, have you encountered the notion that it is ALWAYS WRONG IN EVERY CONTEXT to make a joke about transsexuality? That's a real thing. I've been told over and over that I want transpeople to kill themselves just because I imply that it MIGHT SOMETIMES be okay depending on your audience.
Have you heard of Cards Against Humanity? Did you know that they started publishing a censored version of the game which removed all the cards that offend liberals? The real hot-button card was "passable transsexuals". Call me a bellyacher if you want but that rustled my belly.
Threadly reminder that Forgotten is the best Threshold
>>47985032
>Have you heard of Cards Against Humanity? Did you know that they started publishing a censored version of the game which removed all the cards that offend liberals? The real hot-button card was "passable transsexuals".
>Make a game where the entire point is to say the most fucked up offensive things you can think of
>Make a censored version
For what purpose?
>>47985015
I take a great interest in research in sexuality and psychology, so I would agree with you that there could be MORE research into what is going on in our brains related to sex. But I think you underestimate how much is out there, and how much of it tests theories that aren't favorable. There is a fair amount of pushback from theories that were sort of cemented as 'the truth'. In fact I was reading some theories about the psychology of rape the other day that was challenging the idea that it 'isn't about sex' that became cemented so long ago.
But at the same time, I wouldn't consider what the LGBT community is doing as damaging. It is just changes. It is a push for freedom to actually be gay, and really if you think what is out there now is 'going too far', then I do think you might still be looking at it from the wrong angle.
Because we have to find that line between allowable self harm (a right), and damaging mental conditions. Letting people detach themselves from gender, sexuality, and their physical body, is still in the realm of allowable self harm to me. They are changing just themselves, and we have no big history of those people hurting the greater society.
What the fuck is going on here
>>47985097
Because I LOVE OFFENSIVE THINGS EXCEPT WHEN THEY OFFEND ME
Yea.
That's liberal college-kid culture.
I actually think that 3rd wave feminism was/is very important, unfortunately it also gives you all the tools you need to point to things which personally offend you and explain how those things mean rape and murder. It's one of those things that has to be extremely self-critical to succeed and it just isn't, it's a very self-indulgent movement.
>>47985159
For some reason /pol/ loves Pen and Paper games
>>47985159
/tg/ is going on.
>>47985203
It is pretty /pol/ tonight isn't it?
Some nights it's super /co/ or /v/ in here, some nights it's /lit/, some nights it's /k/, some nights it's /d/evian/tg/uys running rampant and no one can stop them. /tg/ is the most off-topic board, we discuss a wider range of shit than /b/ or /r9k/ ever get around to.
The catalyst is USUALLY worldbuilding, as in anything can turn into a worldbuilding discussion and then from there it can go any-godamn-where. It varies though. I think in this case someone made an offhand comment about nWoD being more/less SJW-friendly and from there we were off like a herd of turtles.
>>47985036
>not Prey
I'm sorry, what? I don't understand. You didn't even get eaten by a jaguar on safari and I can't figure out how that adds up to me giving a fuck about you.
>>47985106
It's a push for some people's freedom. Some people who aren't PROPERLY gay just get straitjacketed or ripped to shreds, and along with the push for freedom and rights is a push to silence recognition of problems and dangers. Like the domestic violence thing, or that transitioning doesn't do shit for transgender suicide rates, or that the monogamous gay couple is kind of a unicorn and not in the "equally happy, safe, and sane polygamy" way. These aren't just problems that exists, they are problems actively buried, silenced, and crusaded against recognition for the sake of image, because it's perceived as so fragile, like we can just take gay marriage back again. The time when the LGBT movement as a sociopolitical entity was doing good work is ended; now that's just something progressives in general do. Mental health issues being covered up or individuals being turned pariah or worse in the service of a defunct political movement is bad shit.
>>47985282
Honestly, I kind of love it, but sometimes this means that it has to talk about shit I don't care about. Why can't we get more /d/? Fuck it, I'm going to sleep.
>>47985322
you can always go to /erp/
Why dont we have an erp board?
My friend is starting a game of Vampire The Requiem 2nd Edition soon. How do I into game?
>>47985315
>not surviving a head on collision with an electrical pole in the middle of a thunderstorm so gnarly it makes Noah piss himself only to die when you pull yourself out of the wreck of your car and get shocked to death by a snaking power wire
Forgotten>Prey>Silent>Torn>Stricken
>>47985387
Buy the book and read the rules. Make a Mekhet
>>47985545
>Make a Mekhet
Someone else already is, plus it's totally not my style.
>>47985315
Do you think there aren't people in the movement trying to bring light to all those issues? Because if you think the LGBT movement is some stagnant pool of one type of thought, you aren't really looking hard enough.
I know it is easy to take a snapshot and shout 'LOOK AT THESE PROBLEMS'. But it takes time for changes to happen, for realization to set in. They aren't right, and you aren't right, the best answer we come up with will be something none of us understand now.
>>47985015
>Mostly I want more people to just go to the fucking brain doctor,
Good luck getting people to do that when most insurance wants to shy away from mental health as hard as possible. Mentally healthy people are bad for business.
>>47985557
Well if style is what you're interested, might I recommend Nosferatu? They're the master race clan.
>>47985315
I've been criticizing progressivism a lot in this thread, but...
>domestic violence
Yea that's legit.
>not PROPERLY gay
>ripped to shreds
You're exaggerating pretty bad there. They occassionally get told that they are being gay wrong or are using the wrong words for their gayness, by a group of people which still ultimately pushes for their freedom and wellbeing, no matter how they choose to be gay.
>monogamous gay couple is a unicorn
The monogamous straight couple is also a unicorn. Can you explain more, what's your point there?
>transitioning doesn't do shit for transgender suicide rates
This is a criticism I've never heard, so of course I'll look into it, but it sounds like some very bad statistics. I mean, how big is the pool of "never allowed to transition for reasons beyond their control even though they want to" transsexuals that you are comparing the rest of the population to?
I fully admit it's a cultural psychosis, other cultures have non-binaries and other weirdness but they aren't viewed the same way and therefor don't work the same way. That's fine, saying that doesn't make the problem go away.
>The time when the LGBT movement as a sociopolitical entity was doing good work is ended
That sounds like ugly semantics, like, you must only be counting a specific kind of activist (the ones concerned with their careers as activists), not thinking about the institutions who would be more oppressive towards LGBT people if not for fear of said activists, and certainly not thinking about lay progressives promoting a freedom-first-no-wrong-answers attitude in their everyday lives and local communities.
I know there's a dangerous note of orthodoxy in progressivism, I've shared my feelings on that, but you can't believe that the LGBT movement as a general cultural force is actually doing more harm than good.
>>47985559
I think the majority is kind of a mess, like Tumblr feminism. Feminism is great but it's become, really, a sort of quiet thing that a lot of people just do, because the Great Battles were won and now it's basically normative. Feminism as something you use like a callsign? That's all fucked up. The third wave is a cannibal feeding frenzy that makes everything it touches worse and spends most of its energy on beating the shit out of its own fucking members rather than getting anything done. Gay rights is the same. What's left as a MOVEMENT, as a big colorful thing, is stagnant, violent, and mindlessly self-sustaining. To be clear, I am all for both feminism and LGBT and a bunch of other things with similar problems, but we have this culture of political necromancy now that has totally distorted some of the conversations we're having in a very bad way.
>>47985580
It's so fucking infuriating.
>>47985387
Ignore this asshole giving you Nossie hype. You want to into V:tR play an Invictus or Daeva, do either Dominate 1, Animalism 1, Resilience 1 (Invictus) or Majesty 3 (Daeva). Or if you just want to beat the shit out of people (I don't recommend this as your very first focus) go Vigor 2, Celerity 1 as a Daeva.
Use your powers whenever you want, don't worry too much about Vitae - feeding is a big part of the game. In fact needing to feed will enhance your experience as far as that goes.
You will have a TON of fun and get a chance to explore the power, weirdness, danger, and tragedy of being a vampire. You'll have lots of ways to be relevant and influence scenes and also see, from the predator's perspective, how fucking terrifying someone who can make you do what they say or wink and you just have to love them can be.
>>47985783
> a specific kind of activist (the ones concerned with their careers as activists)
This is what I identify as the movement.
>the LGBT movement as a general cultural force
This is what I identify as a post-movement normative.
So I think you and I, at least, are just having a difference of terminology where you consider both things to be the movement and I consider one thing to have transcended into society as a whole.
>This is a criticism I've never heard, so of course I'll look into it, but it sounds like some very bad statistics
The idea behind transitioning is that it's what's psychologically safest and healthiest for people with our relatively unique psychosis of body dysphoria. The statistics seem to be saying, at present, that that's not actually the case, the suicide rates aren't dropping post-op. My suspicion is that it's possible dumping a ton of estrogen into emotionally-vulnerable people and then performing a major surgery on them, all in a formative period of life, isn't really conducive to mental health just as a basic biology thing but you're right there has to be SOMETHING done about the dysphoria and unfortunately transitioning tends to be pretty all-or-nothing, they want it for high school and college, despite that being the time in people's lives where they are most likely to do something reckless and regrettable. In one sense it's human nature, we all fuck up around then, and sometimes that is the really bad kind of fuckup. In another sense, I suspect - again, need data - that probably transitioning is being pushed way too fucking hard by people who don't know what they're doing or who are bowing to cultural pressure and making irrevocable mistakes.
Psychiatry isn't innocent there. The Satanic Panic is their sin and I suspect in the future the push to transition teens at the drop of a hat will be considered another. You're supposed to be tested before you get the surgery, but you can find the "right" answers fucking shared online.
>>47985809
>the whole first thing
I'mma tell you this without trying to seem dismissive. But this is honestly only something I hear on 4chan, and reddit.
It feels a little... regurgitated. Like I feel someone heard it from Milo, or Angry Atheist, or that Thunderlord (or something) guy, and now everyone is just echoing their hatred for Third Wave Feminism. Then they pat themselves on the back for pointing out that Third Wave Feminism (trademark, all rights reserved) was the real villain and making everything worse for... somebody.
But whenever I hear about what Third Wave Feminism does so wrong, it just sounds like white boy complaints.
'Someone told me men are rapists. How dare Third Wave Feminism treat me as the problem?'
'A guy was abused by his wife in public and no one helped, I bet if it was the other way around, the police would have been called right away. This is all the fault of Third Wave Feminism!'
I mean, I get what you are saying. There is a rise in radfems (which is what people should dislike, since the stated purpose of radical feminism is to deconstruct/destroy society to try to rebuild from the ashes, whether or not it is necessary). But most ignorant acts of feminism you run up against will be from young boys and girls who are just learning. In the same way some 16 year old who just read some Nietzsche is going to become an insufferable asshole. Combined with them echoing some radical feminist adults, it sounds like they have control over the greater movement when they just don't.
Feminism is fine, and as an institution does a ton to keep all of us moving in the right direction. Ripping up the roots because of a few bad apples is dumb.
>>47985915
>as an institution
The institution is shit.
The concept is wonderful.
>>47985809
Even if you limit it to people who identify as feminists (and, like you say, what used to be called "feminism" is now normative and people do it without calling themselves feminists), I still perceive that most feminists are mostly good people whose beliefs and ideology, and whose actions based on those things, affect the world in a mostly good way.
The "most" isn't a slim majority, it's like, 90% good.
I think that your perspective or your semantics are off, I think that you are overly focused on the conversations that feminism has with itself (liberal "policing"), simply because that is the most visible part, and the much broader and quieter work which progressives continue to do, you discount that as not being part of the movement simply because it isn't controversial. In which case you're the one choosing to define those words in terms of controversy. All of it, the quiet parts, people becoming more comfortable with gays, people talking about transsexuality publicly and not just treating it like a weird fetish, the normalization of views that used to be radical, all of that is still part of the "MOVEMENT".
Tumblr feminism isn't ANY kind of majority. Tumblr feminism is where people go to claim and control the moral authority of feminism, that doesn't mean it's where feminism lives.
Or I'm completely misreading you and I invite you to explain further, that's cool too, I already asked about some specifics you mentioned and you might have even responded to that by now.
>>47985809
>Ignore this asshole giving you Nossie hype
Hey fuck you too, buddy. Nosferatu are fun. My Nofersatu is in the First Estate too, thank you very much. They aren't mutually exclusive
>>47985902
We mostly agree, and you have articulated your beliefs respectfully and well and I want you to know that you have my respect, but your semantics are bad and you should feel bad. I mean really really bad. You deserve every such misunderstanding that happens to you for however long you continue to employ those bad semantics.
If you define "the movement" as only being the pissy argumentative part of a movement then you get to define any movement as being pissy and argumentative. Congratulations.
>post-surgery
Oh. Yea, that's a different thing, I actually agree with you. There's a perception that you aren't a REAL transperson if you don't get the surgery and that's super super toxic.
(Even when making that point, though, I would be very careful with claims about statistics, for example the post-op crowd includes all the older people who would have killed themselves no matter what because nothing makes them happy, they just exhausted all options before choosing to an hero.)
>>47985387
Ignore both these guys, read the book, and play whatever interests you most. You'll have more fun that way.
>>47985915
>feels a little... regurgitated
I think that's a vapid thing to say, I think everyone feels that way when they see someone who agrees with something that they disagree with. It doesn't mean they're all copying each other, it means they're similar people coming to similar conclusions for similar reasons.
>white boy complaints
>OH YOU'RE JUST OVER-REACTING TO SOMETHING ANECDOTAL
You know how to spot marginalization, right? yea, apply that to yourself. In fact, all the techniques of deconstruction and criticism taught by third-wave feminism, apply ALL of them to yourself. That will put you head-and-shoulders above most third-wave feminists.
Fuck you in particular for marginalizing the issue of domestic abuse. The justice system is sexist as FUCK and I know several good men who have done time because they dated a liar and then broke up with her. The female is right in these cases and you show how warped your perspective is when you imply that this is even remotely not-a-big-deal. It is a big deal.
I'm not saying 3rd wave feminism is all bad either, I'm not the one saying to throw it all out, I'm the one saying that it is deeply sexist and needs to be more self-critical in order to overcome that. I'm not post-feminist, I'm just waiting for 4th wave feminism.
>>47986111
Sweet, I think I found the exposed nail in there. It seems you've really come out with what you truly hate about the third wave feminism boogeyman.
And you can calm your tits. I find domestic abuse against men abhorrent. I think sexism in the system goes both ways. I also think feminism is there to fix both issues, and has worked for exactly that. So when people see a man being abused and blame feminism, they are wrong. A man being abused is a terrible situation, but feminism isn't at fault, sexism (you know, the thing feminism tries to fight) is at fault for treating the woman as some gentle flower who could never do harm and the man as some terrible brute and manipulator.
lol, you went a little hard there.
>>47986155
Feminists as a rule marginalize sexism against men. Not all of them all of the time, but most of them most of the time (And I'm the one who said feminism is 90% good).
Half an hour ago you were marginalizing sexism against men ("Just sounds like white boy complaints"), and I called you on it, and now you're packpeddling. Glad I went hard. I'm usually glad when I go hard.
I've heard a lot of feminists, especially among scholars and activists, categorically claim that sexism against men isn't worth talking about. That's just a minority of course but it's a vocal and problematic minority.
The justice system is sexist against men because sexism against women creates backlash and sexism against men does not. That is the fault of feminism. Specifically it is the fault of your kind of feminist.
>>47986267
>As a rule
well that is just wrong
And no, the white boy complaints is me saying you are taking instances of wrongdoing, and blaming all of feminism for them. Not that the stuff happening isn't wrong. Look at my post again. I never say that abusing men is okay, I never or that blanket statements against men (calling them all rapists) are okay. I immediately go into saying that you are seeing young idiots and radical feminists make all of feminism look bad.
So no, you went hard and you did wrong.
>>47981488
>>47981512
>>47981597
>I mean ignoring the iffy question of trauma turning anyone transgender (Raising some pretty dodgy questions about nature v nurture on that front, that are just a liiiittle too easy to get to steer on the wrong side), there's also the matter of portraying being trans gender as being a literal fairy.
A lot of trans people I know like that aspect of Changeling. It's also less that the trauma is making you trans and more that the True Fae know what you might not, and take advantage of that.
"Forced femme" is a popular fetish, after all.
>Get forcibly genderchanged
>Realize you like it
>Even though the person who changed you is abusive
>>47981790
>>47981673
Being molested doesn't turn you queer, but being queer tends to make you an easy target. Also, suicide rates definitely do decrease post-op. People citing the Swedish study tend to miss that it says transpeople have a higher rate of suicide post-op than the national average; that's still better than the 42% rate of suicide without treatment, and most of that is not the result of being trans so much as the comorbidity of being queer; Homosexual domestic abuse also happens because being a minority means being in a powder keg of emotions. The real problem is lack of help, in both cases. When you're unwilling to get help because you're afraid of reprisal and abuse from the people who would help you, you don't get help.
>>47981947
>>47982132
Being different is a "prey trait". Also, as others said, you just don't notice things when they're normal. There's also probably a bit of confirmation bias going on at play here. That's how you remember it, but memory is spotty and pointless. It's also usually the transpeople who had their issues even as a child, but that's because gender awareness develops pretty early. We do after all deck all babies out in one of two colours.
As an aside, memory is another very World of Darknessy topic, but I guess everyone would rather talk about sexuality
>>47986316
>Memory
Is that you atamajakki (sp)?
Are you trying to get us to talk about Mummy again?
>>47981929
While I like Dadgames as much as the next person, Joel is like one big bundle of toxic masculinity and daughter issues. Dude is just as dangerous to Ellie as the raiders (and to the rest of the world, although the Fireflies are fucking stupid and heartbreaking as that ending is, it's so fucking contrived).
I love the parts where Ellie is basically taking care of her crazy insane dad.
Or maybe that's Walking Dead Season Two. I think it is. Clem and Kenny, who's basically an abusive alcoholic who needs to get patched up by his daughter. God that game was so gutpunching.
>>47981939
He's saying that it's hard to be maternal and threatening as a male character. Not paternal and threatening.
>>47982091
It's clearly the same goalpost.
Man, I need to start skipping to the bottom of threads.
>>47981848
>>47981872
>>47982039
What "evil is good, worship evil, rape the patriarchy" stuff is there? ArcaneArts was telling me that I was totally off the mark that Beasts are abusive and shit and that they're trying to fix that later. I don't agree with him (and have no problem with Beasts being abusive, other than "that's Vampire's schtick"), but something along those lines was his argument.
He seemed to say that the rapey superbully interpretation is wrong, not noble. And I do agree that most of it is wrong, although I think he ignores a lot of very obvious shit, like how "teaching lessons" comes off as "I'm doing this for your own good".
>They're an inflammatory asshole with nothing good to say.
Maybe I have a chance after all :V
Also, stop saying "it". He's not a Beast.
>the kind of person who spends all day sucking off their pseudoradical feminist friends on Twitter but has a made-to-order body pillow decorated with hair clippings it stole that it fucks while stabbing and screaming misogynist obscenities until it passes out from overload every weekend.That's kind of hot, anon
So. What does Awakened do for a living?
>>47986343
No, not Mummy Memory.
Did you know that you never actually remember something? You just remember the last time you remembered it.
>Caught up to the current thread
Nope. It's still dumb.
>>47985971
>>47986267
>Feminists as a rule marginalize sexism against men.
It isn't. You only believe it is because you buy into the narrative that is sold to you. The crazy bra burning man hating feminist has been an unrealistic caricature since the 70s.
>>47986111
>>47985915
>>47985915
>But whenever I hear about what Third Wave Feminism does so wrong, it just sounds like white boy complaints.
Whenever I hear people complain about third wave feminism, they're actually complaining about a spooky boogeyman of second wave feminism wrapped up in Tumblr. Third wave feminism says that men and queers and everyone can benefit from feminism. It's the feminism that says men being called weak is also a bad thing. People who hate third wave feminism are by and large people who could benefit from it, but instead see it as "SJWs trying to take over" because they're afraid of change and don't want to acknowledge there's anything wrong with their outlook or behavior. It's the insecure people calling each other faggot on Xbox voice chat while wondering whether or not they're gay.
Ugh. Can we just go back to vampiregames? Even I don't want to talk about this shit.
>>47986308
I've read that post several times now, I don't need to read it again, what you said then isn't what you're saying now. Like I said I'm glad you're backpeddling.
Feminism doesn't take men's rights seriously. In the criminal justice system, a balanced perspective must be found between the rights ofo the accused and the rights of the accuser. Feminists don't care about that, they approach the problem with the perspective that women are intrinsically wronged and have a permanent victim-status, the idea that a woman's rights can be compromised in any way to protect the rights of a man (such as, I don't know, assuming a man is innocent until proven guilty) is absurd. So they put pressure on the justice system to favor men and over time that changes the norm until men are assumed guilty. Feminism isn't just failing to correct this situation, it actively worked to created it and continues to do so.
Do you think you're the first feminist I've called out for marginalizing injustice against men, scoffing at the idea, or hand-waving it as merely privileged men ('white boys') attempting to demonize feminism? Do you think you're the first one to backpeddle, and assure me that men's rights are just as important, without actually admitting any fault?
Every feminist SAYS men's rights are just as important. Just like people who oppose gay marriage say they don't hate gays. It's an easy thing to say, especially after you've already dismissed the demonization of men and the problems with the justice system as "white boy problems", and attempted to reduce it to a mere opinion held by "radfems" instead of a cultural reality faced by every male in the country.
It's not that men's issues are more important than women's. Women really do have it worse, but men's issues feed into women's issues and vice-versa, you at least seem to understand that. And when you spout shit like you did earlier you're feeding into both of them.
>>47986480
Is she a midget, or is that just tricky perspective?
Because if she is a midget, she is pretty cute.
>>47986511
I dunno man. If you aren't going to take my word for what I meant, then what is the point in writing a long post thinking I'll bother reading it?
>>47986511
this is why black people don't like white feminism because which males are affected most by the legal system? black men! feminism as you point out and its mentalities lead to the destruction of the black family structure.
>>47986489
How about we look at some Idigam that actually seem interesting, compared to the ones from the 2e book.
Earlier in the thread it was brought up that Chris Allen made some Idigam on the forums.
--
High Cromlech
The High Cromlech is an Earth-Bound idigam, one that has laired where Paris now stands for millenia. It is a being of death, once so utterly fascinated by funerary rites and the transition from life that it gouged out a spiritual lair beneath the land to try and make its own little underworld, stealing away souls and ghosts and spirits and forging a little tomb-empire all of its own. Sometimes it would terrorise the living with its harvests; other times it interwove itself with the beliefs of the men and women who gathered at shrines and temples and offered honour to the dead and to the gods. At some point, it began to sleep, but by now its presence had so impregnated the consciousness of humanity in the area that they and it dreamt of dark, subterranean worlds of the dead together, and the Essence from their fears and beliefs of death poured down into its domain. Over time, the High Cromlech ceased to simply be an entity and became geography, fully becoming the realm it had carved out. Now it slumbers, only occasionally rousing what is left of its consciousness - such as when the graveyards of Paris so groaned with the weight of the dead that they began to dig down into the rock to stock underground galleries with the cadavers. Most of the time, it simply exists in dormancy, and the grotesque caricature of society within it caper and serve the dreaming whims that they catch from their lord and master's sleep.
>>47986555
The High Cromlech is fed from a network of leylines running from old cromlech sites around France; they form a nexus in Paris, which then drains the collected Essence of death and reverence down into the idigam's lair. This allows it to continue to survive in its dormant state, and to maintain the domain of High Cromlech. Now, though, the ancient behemoth turns in its sleep once more - the return of its fellow idigam and the simple increase in population of humanity are intruding into its dreaming state. In response to this, the cromlech lines are hungrily devouring down far more Essence, attempting to fuel the idigam's reawakening. The sheer level of power involved is causing reality to break down in some spots along the leylines, whether in the form of verges, interstitial terrain or outbreaks of sickness and death.
Access to the idigam-realm is possible but difficult. It roughly exists somewhere underneath Paris, connected to the catacombs, but where exactly seems to sometimes shift, and near where the High Cromlech touches the physical world, the passages' become Escher-like in their tangled madness. Even so, the rare explorer still stumbles upon High Cromlech from time to time. Most never leave, but a few escape with tales that seem utterly delusional. The servants of High Cromlech seem able to navigate their way to wherever the juncture is with utter ease, even if it's moved since they left the tomb-domain.
>>47986563
High Cromlech itself is an absurd, warped necropolis that coils in on itself, with insane geometry and monstrous, grim monoliths. It is a place of vast tombs, soaring architecture of marble and bone, twisting roads flanked by weeping statues and endless fields of the dead. It is a city of cadavers that the idigam has absorbed from Paris's graveyards, corpse and resting place and all, remade into the idigam's own flesh and sinew. The place is awash with deathly Essence; cold, glimmering lights bob and dance, while blazing blue gravefire crackles and dances in braziers and sconce; the shadows are thick with the faint, phantasmal shapes of fading ghosts. There are denizens here; some are dead themselves, powerful old ghosts that have retained much of their strength and will, becoming a mad priesthood overseeing the labyrinthine bureaucracy of High Cromlech and its utterly nonsensical laws and orders. Weaker ghosts that have fallen into the spiritual gravity well of High Cromlech and were unable to escape (or whom were stolen outright by the hunger of the tomb-city) are conscripted to serve the endless, circular patterns of the government's administration. There is no Twilight in High Cromlech, and so ghosts are all naturally materialised here.
Beyond the ghosts entrapped in the idigam's insane desire to be the human concept of death, there are also the living. Most of these are Claimed by grave-spirits, becoming warped horrors of bone, rotting flesh, carven granite and crumbling grave-dirt. Some are amazingly still themselves, although usually quite insane, and these 'prophets' are usually chained up by the rulers of High Cromlech who believe that the city's will can be discovered from their gibbering. Sometimes, at the subconscious will of the idigam, Claimed and ghosts march out into the real Paris to steal the dead or harvest the rich Essence at a tomb; other times, living victims are ejected out in a strange, random act of mercy.
>>47986489
>Third wave feminism says that men and queers and everyone can benefit from feminism. It's the feminism that says men being called weak is also a bad thing
You can claim to believe all of those things and still contribute to patriarchy.
You can claim that men and women deserve equal rights, because it's an easy thing to say, you can say that and still contribute to patriarchy.
That's what third-wave feminism does. It discusses and exposes some sides of patriarchy (the parts which are most palatable to a female audience) and denies or marginalizes others (the parts which imply that women might sometimes be the badguys in specific situations).
Third-wave feminism spends 90% of its energy exposing and unboxing patriarchy and the other 10% contributing to patriarchy. Third-wave feminism contributes to the notion that women are always victims and are always the ones who need protecting. Tumblr feminism and misandry aren't all of feminism, but they are part of it.
>>47986568
If the High Cromlech wakes, then as long as the leylines feed it, it should be able to maintain its necropolis within itself; going on previous occasions, the idigam will likely manifest itself as an avatar of the tomb-city to go forth an enact its plans - whatever those might be. Without the Essence to maintain its realm, though, the High Cromlech will collapse with unforeseeable results, although the idigam itself will survive the event. It is likely to be hungry, whatever the outcome, and ambitious to rebuild or expand its underworld Empire.
The High Cromlech first Coalesced amongst early human priests who were enacting their rites amongst ancient standing stones. These shape its Ban and Bane, but the event in question was so utterly distant in the past that there's no easy way to research the Earth-Bound's origin.
>>47986580
And then the stat box.
The High Cromlech
The High Cromlech has certain stats in brackets. Normally the idigam manifests as a large avatar from its own substance, but if the High Cromlech were to collapse its internal realm and fully remake itself, its size and Dread Powers are increased.
Rank 5
Attributes: Power 14 Finesse 13 Resistance 15
Willpower: 10 Essence: 100 Initiative: 28
Defence: 15 Speed: 30 (25) Size: 15 (60)
Corpus: 30 (135) Armour: 0 (15)
Influences: Death 5, Stone 3
Numina: Awe, Blast, Dement, Entropic Decay, Ghost Eater, Implant Mission, Regenerate, Stalwart, 3 Numina slots exchanged for Influence dots
Manifestations: Cromlech Gateway*, Gauntlet Breach, Materialise, Reaching, Shadow Gateway, Twilight Form
Essence Shaping: Essence Void, Forge Claimed, Forge Fastness*, Ghost Manipulation, Locus Manipulation, Shadow Warp
Dread Powers: Absorb Ghost*, Dreams of the Dead*, (Colossus), Puppet Cadaver*, Soul Furnace, Soul Slave
Ban: The High Cromlech cannot harm a human priest.
Bane: Stone from a dolmen or menhir at Carnac in Brittany.
>>47986050
This so much, especially if your group is 100% virgins to the system.
>>47986511
Feminists got the definition of rape in the US changed to allow men to be legally victims of rape. The definition still isn't where they'd like it to be, both in terms of what that means for men and women.
Yes, by and large "feminists" don't care for moving the goalposts for men directly, but that's for the same reasons there are so many men who say they're feminists but still have a paternalistic and misogynist attitude towards women. People are going to care more about their in-group than the other group. But the view you have of these things being the way they are and in such quantities is completely a false narrative, sold to you by places like this. The world is not as 4chan depicts it. You've been indoctrinated to have a kneejerk reaction of confirmation bias when it comes to things like feminism. You'll dismiss those crazy people on Tumblr, even if they've got a point. You'll dismiss real academics for using the same terms, because they're just Tumblrites. And, let's be honest, when something actually *is* a "white boy problem", you'll bark and growl and argue that there isn't a problem at all because you don't want to acknowledge that maybe there is a problem.
And, let's be honest here, there are plenty of privileged men attempting to demonize feminism. Like all the people who get so up in arms if queer characters exist, or the people who get so dogmatic if female armour designs are complained about.
>>47986539
Actually, women of colour don't like aspects of modern feminism because a lot of it focuses on the issues that effect white women, while the women of colour have to take care of those white women's children and clean their homes as they get to be upwardly mobile. As those groups get more and more of a voice, intersectionality becomes more and more important.
Although, no, feminism does not lead to the destruction of the black family. The American criminal justice does that. Black fathers do take part in their children's lives, though.
>>47986512
She's short, but not a midget, but the angle and art style aggravates that. She is cute though. Here is her introduction.
>>47986525
Oh, I can't claim anything about what you meant. You're right. I might have slipped up on that and if so i was in the wrong (I take good faith very seriously, there rally is no point in continuing once you assume bad faith). I'm telling you what you *said*.
Focus. Self-criticism. Turn it around. "HURDUR, THERE"S NOTHING WRONG WITH WOMENS IN THE KITCHEN, THE WORLD WAS BETTER WITH WOMENS IN THE KITCHEN!" If a guy said that, you would call him out, right? And imagine he backpeddled, and said, "Well, no, I'm not saying anyone should be FORCED to stay at home, but it should be okay if they do..",, and so on. Do you assume bad faith? No, maybe he genuinely means that. But that isnt' what he SAID. What he SAID was contributing to the cultural meme of patriarchy.
I'm telling you the same. And it's *always* like that. No feminist ever believes that they are contributing to the demonization of men, they just think that men's rights are a minor issue, they think that the pendillum is too far into the blue and needs to be pushed back towards the pink, and they don't realize how they themselves, by being so quick to dismiss or marginalize men's issues, are contributing to patriarchy.
Anyway, everyone is tired of feminism for one night and that's fine, I don't have to say anything else.
>>47986588
See, when I first saw the Idigam rules in 2e, I knew some interesting stuff was possible, but clearly I was too braindead to accomplish it. The only Idigam I ever made up started petty revolutions. It pretty much played both sides of the fence to incite riots, revolution, violence. It wanted people protesting in the streets, hippie circles, people locked in arms, and riot gear out and ready.
But all I ever did to accomplish it was give it a herald, and have it turning the occasional forsaken or shifter to its cause so it could mess with the local spirits and elements.
I think I've been thinking too small.
>>47986577
I don't know how many times I can say "you are buying into a false narrative sold to you by 4chan and gamergate and Reddit" before that sticks in. Even where the kind of feminism you talk about exists, it's barely a fraction of one percent of the real world.
>>47986607
I love Three Panel Soul. Is it still doing things? I thought it ended.
>>47986588
>>47986580
>>47986568
>>47986563
>>47986555
What the fuck is a Cromlech? Using "The High Cromlech" over and over leads that phrase to meaning less than it already did to me.
>>47986634
>I love Three Panel Soul. Is it still doing things? I thought it ended.
It updates several times a week.
Also, a Cromlech is a stone circle. Like Stonehenge.
>>47986634
lol. He had to answer that question in another post.
>Generally 'cromlech' refers to very old megalithic structures you get in the British Isles, France and Spain. Specifically, it usually means the stone tombs from that era though you also get cromlech standing stones etc.
So... yeah, that I guess?
>>47977526
So just a question to anyone, where are the Demon: The Descent Books? I looked in the Mega, but didn't see them.
Also. Jo the mage is cute.
>>47982347
I remember that, it is great review. You listed all problems I had with Beast and even pointed out few I missed before. So instead of explaining why Beast sucks, I can just point to this.
>>47986634
>>47986600
You aren't talking to me, you are talking to a strawman critic-of-feminism that already exists in your head. You aren't adressing things that I have actually said, you are just rattling off general things that you think are true of all critics of feminism.
Which is exactly what I'm talking about. Someone tries to criticize feminism, no matter how specific that criticism is, no matter how much they talk about the good that has been and is still done by 3rd wave feminism, and you launch into a canned argument about how everyone who criticizes feminism is just an angry 4chan/reddit nerd. 3rd wave feminism HAS done a lot of good, but it is deeply non-self-critical, and for a movement founded on deconstruction there is no godamned excuse for that.
You're talking about a strawman. I'm not talking about a strawman, I'm talking about YOU.
>>47986680
>Hell Yeah Money Bank
>>47982347
>>47986692
Honestly from what I can tell a lot of it is the same kind of problems I see people have with Beast over and over that aren't entirely valid. You also seem SUPER defensive whenever it comes up. Like >>47982406 points out, and you dismiss anyone who says anything as >>47982458 just wanting to play out evil monsters "with no redeeming features". Which, you know, is already Vampire's schtick to begin with.
The problem is that I hate podcasts, so I don't really want to spend four hours listening to it. Although just listening to you talk about Beast here I can already get a general sense of your issues, and how you're letting yourself be coloured by what other people have said.
I mean, >>47982161 that is literally what ArcaneArts said to me. That there's plenty of acceptable targets and Beast isn't about being a rapey superbully, you can totally feed your Horror by not being a dick [to innocent people].
Admittedly that's still being a dick, and enacting vengeance on whoever, but hey, Hunters do that, too. There is very little "making children into fuck-pillows to sell to sadistic pedophile Slashers" though. Doing that wouldn't really even do anything for you as a Beast.
>>47986788
No, I'm talking to you. Specifically I'm saying that you are afraid of the straw boogeyman feminist that places like 4chan have created. You're not criticizing feminism, you're criticizing a thing that you think exists.
I also didn't say everyone who criticizes feminism is an angry nerd. I said that what you're doing comes off that way because of what and how you're criticizing it. You're talking about shit that comes off as "we have to be ever vigilante or feminism will destroy us!" You're talking about how feminists are adding to the problem and contributing to the patriarchy and that there's misandry and complaining about how things get dismissed as white boy problems. But you're buying into a false narrative, *and* also ignoring the many times when the things being dismissed as "white boy problems" really *are* white boy problems.
You're not quite saying that feminism is castrating men and that the SJWs will PC police you and throw you in jail, but you're at least in the same ballpark. I don't think that you're a "concern troll" or anything, but I do feel that you're buying into a narrative. You've internalized he kind of alt-right reactionary fears.
You also clearly don't take part in any of the actual discussions, because feminism is self critical like woah. You can't have a left wing social movement without internal schisms.
>>47986908
>>Hell Yeah Money Bank
Ha. Hadn't even noticed.
Hey yo I need some help with a Werewolf: The Apocalypse game I'm starting up soon.
It's a Silver Pack campaign, the players are starting off with high level Garou characters who are SP hopefuls wanting to compete for a spot in the Silver Pack at the Concolation.
Basically, I need help coming up with Glory, Honor and Wisdom challenges for the various Auspices.
>>47986908
The redeeming feature of Vampire is that they can survive without killing, or feeding on humans. The game is set up to balance the pros and cons of feeding, and how that will corrupt the human soul.
In Beast, we have none of that, because you are inherently not human. You have either a) be turned into a Beast without a choice or b) chosen to become one out of some desire to have power.
Now as a Beast either you feed, or you get into a situation where the Horror goes off on a rampage.
Either way - no matter the victim - you have to feed, and will cause trauma to the victim. And to top it all off a Beast has Lessons tacked on to excuse all this.
Combine this with all the connotations of how Beasts represent LBGT people or some such, it is a really gross revenge fantasy game.
Given on the show we have also looked at how each game is some sort of exploration of a nature of the human soul, and what it is to be human, or to mimic being human, Beast for us did not fit, and is not the sort of games we run. Our review comes at it from that point of view.
People trying to dismiss the review because "we read the book wrong" or "the book needs another editing pass, but it is a good game", are not really being fair given a) the review is based upon multiple readings, my most of the podcast hosts, and b) if a book is unfinished, then it should not have been published and been fixed - just because it is OPP does not mean it gets a free pass.
The review is of course the opinions of the DDR hosts, having read almost all other CofD books and WoD books. And is a review that should be taken in the context of the show i.e. if you like the show, the types of games we like and run games in a similar manner, and appreciate our other reviews, then this review is of help for your decisions. Otherwise, sure, enjoy just play full on evil monsters.
>>47987157
>You have either a) be turned into a Beast without a choice or b) chosen to become one out of some desire to have power.
I have no idea where you get that impression. It's not even accurate.
And, yes, Beasts have to feed, and feeding causes harm. Vampires are the same way. It is extensively difficult for a vampire to avoid feeding on humans. It's actually *easier* for a Beast to avoid giving in to Hunger, because indulging your Hunger is not the only way to regain Satiety. The "lessons" are tacked on, yes, and if they were more integrated the game could be better, but they exist because it stops Beasts from being the slavering rape beasts you keep characterizing them as. It *is* just an excuse. That's why it means something.
>Beasts represent LBGT people or some such
Honestly that's always been a fucking stretch and it's even more of a stretch now.
>Otherwise, sure, enjoy just play full on evil monsters.
This is disingenuous at best and trolling at worse. You're dismissing any other point of view. It's the equivalent of "fine, sure, enjoy your shit tastes". You're refusing to see anything that doesn't agree with you as being valid.
You can't say that you didn't read the book wrong when the things you're asserting as fact are counter to what the book actually says. You're also going with that childish outlook that has people alleging that Matt or Beast fans must be secretly fucked up serial killers or something.
And when people call you out on how biased you are--or even don't disagree with you, as the poster who said "savage, yo"--you chew them out without even considering maybe you're wrong. But you've dug in your heels, so nothing anyone says about Beast or any evidence to the contrary will change your opinion.
>>47987243
>Vampires are the same way
Unconscious bums drained of a bit of blood then left with a blanket and warm dinner are totally the same as mentally traumatized civilians.
>>47986511
>It's not that men's issues are more important than women's. Women really do have it worse
Oh please. That's exactly the problem with feminists. Womyn have it worse. How do you quantify who has it worse. Men's homelessness and suicide rates, divorce and other judicial proceeding results, health issues concerns... Problem with feminist movement is that it's concerned about adding advantages to certain group instead of trying achieving equality. Ofc. it's quite obvious from name itself.
>>47986624
>they don't realize how they themselves, by being so quick to dismiss or marginalize men's issues, are contributing to patriarchy.
Lol, what exactly is your definition of patriarchy, that marginalizing men's issues contributes to it?
>>47987426
>Oh please. That's exactly the problem with feminists. Womyn have it worse. How do you quantify who has it worse. Men's homelessness and suicide rates, divorce and other judicial proceeding results, health issues concerns... Problem with feminist movement is that it's concerned about adding advantages to certain group instead of trying achieving equality. Ofc. it's quite obvious from name itself.
Which reminds me...
>>47987336
You're creating a huge strawman of both vampires and beasts.
More often than not that bum is going to die in the cold, and even then that's pretty traumatizing to have your blood drained. Or more likely some chick in the club is going to get her blood drank nonconsensually by a walking date rape metaphor.
You act like Beasts can't just do the Vampion schtick, and basically everyone forgets Family Dinner is a thing.
>>47987426
A lot of those issues for men are due to feminist issues. Feminists want to fix those. "Men shoot themselves instead of talking about their feelings" is literally that toxic masculinity thing you keep hearing about. But critics of feminism always dismiss the kind of things that would keep men from blowing their brains out as "trying to castrate men". You're failing to look at a broader picture. Most of the issues you're talking about are similar to first world problems; they're the social pressures of being at the top, not the pressure of being at the bottom. And you're wrong in thinking that feminists don't by and large want to fix those issues as well. Again, that's buying into a false narrative.
>>47987442
Talk about taking things out of context. You act like the article is saying it's okay that men kill themselves. It's poorly phrased, yeah, but it's not saying what you're implying it is. "We don't want women to rise up to this bad thing" is not the same as "we don't want men to lower this bad thing".
>>47987483
>Talk about taking things out of context. You act like the article is saying it's okay that men kill themselves. It's poorly phrased, yeah, but it's not saying what you're implying it is. "We don't want women to rise up to this bad thing" is not the same as "we don't want men to lower this bad thing".
Yes. But what that headline is literally saying is "We are fine with things as they are, no change please."
>>47987500
Actually what it is literally saying is 'we should be slowing/stopping the rising number of women committing suicide.'
>>47987500
>It's poorly phrased, yeah, but it's not saying what you're implying it is.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/suicide-rates-rising-us_us_5714f800e4b0060ccda3b5d8
You're trying to say they're okay with men committing suicide in high numbers, when really it's more like their reaction is pic related.
