Hi, my name is Jesse, and I'm a railroader.
I've been sober for almost two years now (only because I haven't played at all), but I'm about to start up a new campaign and I'm worried that I'm going to fall off the wagon.
I thought I might start a thread to discuss railroaders, railroad stories, and techniques and strategies to avoid railroading.
>When was the last time you railroaded your players, or was railroaded by your DM?
>Why do you think we railroad?
>Do you have any advice for DMs trying to find more organic ways to tell their stories?
>>47835803
There's nothing inherently wrong with railroading, and everyone who's ever played an RPG has been railroaded at least a little bit.
>inb4 I've never been railroaded!
Yes, yes you have. You just didn't realize it was happening.
>>47835803
I'll go, since I'm obviously the one selfishly fishing for advice.
>When was the last time you railroaded your players, or were railroaded by your DM?
Last campaign I ran, I had a DMPC in the group who didn't take spotlight from the PCs, but was constantly steering them where I wanted them to go.
>Why do you think we railroad?
I think anyone who creates art (be it drawing, writing, or RPG campaigns) wants it to be experienced by others. Even the things you tell yourself you're only doing for your own gratification, like writing in a journal, you do with an audience in mind (subconsciously, at least).
But especially when it comes to making content deliberately designed for others to experience, it's kind of depressing to put a lot of work into something and then have it be ignored, avoided, or sidestepped.
I think the urge I get to conspiratorially tell my players all the cool stuff I have planned for them (which I don't indulge) is the same one that often makes me railroad them into it.
>Do you have any advice for DMs trying to find more organic ways to tell their stories?
Don't plan too far ahead, obviously, and try not to get too attached to the things you *do* plan for.
Make sure the players have a stake in the content you're writing, so that they'll choose on their own to head into it/stay on it (this is harder for players that don't write backstories and/or are bad at roleplaying).
Make "looser" content, content that isn't necessarily fixed in time or space, so that players can potentially encounter it from different angles or at different points along the campaign.
>>47835838
>There's nothing inherently wrong with railroading
It takes agency away from the players, which I think is definitely a bad thing.
It also shifts it from a story the players tell (which to me is the heart of PnP) to a story that the DM tells. This is the more controversial part, I think. At face value it's obviously the DM who's narrating the story, but I think this is (or is supposed to be) a clever illusion. The DM is a midwife, someone there to handle all the messy things like rules, to enable and empower the players to tell their own narratives.
>>47836105
The only thing that's important about agency is that the players believe they have it. Their choices don't actually need to matter, they just have to think they do.
If I don't "railroad" my group they'll just stumble around and I'll have to awkwardly describe them doing janitor work or murdering hobos for cash.
Most players want to be railroaded. Everyone says they want a sandbox, but if you actually give them one they won't know what to do with it.
>>47836162
>inb4 people start arguing about quantum ogres
Anyways, if you're going to offer them the illusion of choice, why not just offer them actual choice? There's no reason to have pre-planned the events of the day unless you're running a premade of some sort.
Well okay, consensus seems to be that railroading is not only bad, but necessary. Clearly there's still an implication that bad railroading (where the players are acutely aware of it) is detrimental though, right? So what's the difference between good and bad railroading, and how do you avoid the latter?
>>47836745
>There's no reason to have pre-planned the events of the day unless you're running a premade of some sort.
Spontaneous content generation like that is difficult, specifically because it's more likely to feel convenient and fabricated to the players (which breaks the whole immersion illusion).
>>47836745
Players are notorious for choosing the worst possible thing to do in any given scenario. If trusted with their own fate, their characters will die in the dumbest way possible. There's nothing wrong with that, of course, it just makes it hard to get any sort of story going.
>>47836745
>>47836869
I remember reading a piece of advice on /tg/ awhile back about making content on the fly. Guy suggested making a list of a dozen or so NPCs, really just names and a few personality quirks that could be easily slotted into needed roles.
I love this sort of suggestion, and it highlights the idea that you don't need to fully stat out everything - there's some very obvious places where you can save yourself effort and still never break the illusion that you've got it all figured out.
>>47836965
Except that you literally can't make a plot out of that.
>>47836979
Why do you need "plot"? Are you making a novel? Throw hooks to adventure around and see which one is bitten by players
>>47836979
I don't think it's meant to be a replacement for a plot. It's more of a contingency plan when things go off the rails a bit, so it doesn't become immediately apparent to the players - they talk to the inn's barmaid instead of the bartender you directed them towards, and suddenly you're stumbling to figure out her name and some believable things to say about her.
>>47835803
>When was the last time you railroaded your players, or was railroaded by your DM?
Just wrapped up my first ever story arc. It was pretty railroad intensive. Part of it is that I was taking a turn DMing, and I'm not as familiar with the setting as the original DM. I was worried if they went way off they'd hit shit I didn't know how to handle. While I was pretty bad getting them from plot point to plot point, how they handled shit once there was pretty open. They completely invalidated several encounters via creative thinking, so good on them for that.
We did discuss that it would be somewhat linear when I took over, and everyone agreed it was fine. Considering the main DM's 'choices' usually consists of 'you can either do this thing that makes sense, or you can do this thing which is suicidal' and I generally just sat there asking what the players did next, (when I wasn't having the mcguffin of seeking literally put a fucking X on their map as to where the next mcguffin of collecting was) the players actually had a good time.
>Why do you think we railroad?
Because I'm new and wanted an easier experience. I'm hoping that if I continue DMing I can practice being completely open to everything.
>Do you have any advice for DMs trying to find more organic ways to tell their stories?
My problem was that I was way to attached to specific story points. I'm going to try to plan more broadly than deeply, if that makes sense.
>>47835803
Whether Railroading is bad or not sometimes also depends on the game you're running. Not necessarily the system, but more the story/world/whatever.
To give an example games like Only War, or certain flavours of Traveller (Military/Navy Campaigns especially) assume a certain quantity of Railroading. The players are part of a rigid command structure, and can't always decide to wander off and dick around unless they want the disciplinary arm of whatever armed force they're a part of showing up and being pissed off.
I run Only War, and there's a sort of half-railroad aspect to it, in that I hand the players a set of written orders, and a (occasionally accurate) map. They get given some gear, and scavange, trade, steal, or occasionally brave the hell-pit of the Armoury to get the gear they ACTUALLY want, and then I leave the exact details of how they fulfil the orders they are given up to them.
It's easy enough to map out a smaller section of a larger conflict, and fill it with enemies and let them crack on.
A military game may be a good way to wean yourself off the worst kinds of railroading, because the players will expect a certain amount of it to begin with.
>>47837092
>If you have any sense of story or plot you MUST be writing a novel!
Fag
