/btg/ is dead, long live /btg/!
uehueheuheuh, gibe ded world plos r i nuke u
Old Thread: >>47682112
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TtS: Promise Land
http://www.mediafire.com/download/58qc4n2owy2gsb7/E-CAT35SN206_BattleTech_Touring_the_Stars_Promised_Land.pdf
First Succession War
http://www.mediafire.com/download/dp9iiecoaz4c29k/E-CAT35235_BattleTech+First+Succession+War.pdf
TtS: Brownsville
https://mega.nz/#!7xMngZBR!d0Ayoy_8rDrtsXZ7-M6wGPrmDq8O8F5_0d4G8dkLxzM
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>/btg/ does a TRO:
http://builtforwar.blog(not spam)spot.com/
>How do I do this Against the Bot thing?
http://pastebin.com/pE2f7TR5
>Overview of the major factions?
http://bg.battletech.com/universe/great-houses/
http://bg.battletech.com/universe/the-clans/
http://bg.battletech.com/universe/other-powers/
>How do I find out what BattleMechs a faction has?
http://masterunitlist.info/
>Map of /btg/ players (WIP):
https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=1116217&add=1
>BattleTech Introductory Info and PDFs
http://bg.battletech.com/?page_id=400
>Rookie guides
http://pastebin.com/HZvGKuGx
>Sarna.net - BattleTech Wiki
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page
>Megamek - computer version of BattleTech. Play with AI or other players
http://megamek.info/
Unit Designing Softwares
>SSW Mech Designer
http://www.solarisskunkwerks.com/
>MegaMek Lab
http://megameklab.sourceforge.net/
>BattleTech IRC
#battletech on irc.rizon.net
>PDF Folders
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/9q792hobnbpw3/Battletech
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/sdckg6j645z4j/Battletech
Hey BTG, rookie question: What qualifies a mech as under armed/armoured for a certain weight class? What does an undergunned medium look like, or a fragile heavy? Examples of mechs that meet the criteria or a general principals explaination would be appreciated.
>>47731448
>What qualifies a mech as under armed/armoured for a certain weight class?
The usual culprit is engine mass. Mediums and Lights can get away with tying up around a third of their mass on their engine because the speed helps with their lower armour a lot, but when you start trying to cram 300-rated engines into a 60-tonner or a 400-rated engine into an 80-tonner you start running into problems. It's also more noticeable using introductory technology or at least SFEs.
the Medium examples that come to mind are the Assassin (Medium Laser, SRM-2, LRM-5) or Cicada (been a while since I looked at it but IIRC something like 2 MLs and a SL?). The Assassin would actually be OK if it had 6 MLs on it, or 4 MLs and 2 HS, but the final throw-weight on both is a bit anaemic.
For Heavies the usual suspects are the Champion (big engine, A/C-10, armour sacrificed) or Quickdraw (big engine, poor weapon selection, armour sacrificed).
Once you slap an XL engine in there for any of those designs the problems go away.
A lot of canon designs are poorly optimised but the ones that are undergunned and/or under-armoured stick out more than usual.
>>47731267
Did they have them? sure. Did some named jaguar characters pilot them? yes. But the Jaguars didn't have easy access to them (the whole reason they invented the Mad Dog) and the Timber Wolf isn't an iconic jaguar mech in the way the Stormcrow, Mad Dog, Warhawk and Dire Wolf were.
their use of them can be ascribed as much to the fact that there aren't that many options during the era in which we still had Jaguars as much as any preference.
>>47731556
I mean you can justify it any which way, it doesn't really matter. I'm just pointing out its a perfectly fine choice to round out a Jaguar star. I'd never imply they had more than the Wolves.
Speaking of the jags, if they had survived to the dark age, what kind of crazy shit do you think they'd put together with the new tech in their ongoing quest to JAG HARDER?
>>47732444
>if they had survived to the dark age
>if
>>47732495
Yeah, but they weren't very jag anymore by then
>>47731448
>What qualifies a mech as under armed/armoured for a certain weight class?
Armor or throw weight well below the average. As a quick rule of thumb for throw weight, you want to be able to cause at least 20 damage at a reasonable range reliably with a heavy, or with two Mediums.
Armor's a little trickier, but you usually want ~75% or more of the max available armor >of its primary targets< on anything that's going to be mixing it up at close range. If you use the Ostsol to hunt Mediums, it's decently armored; against other heavies and Assaults, you're going to be losing important things very quickly.
Once Gauss rifles are a thing, if a Heavy can't tank at least one round to every front location without breaching it's in trouble.
>What does an undergunned medium look like,
The Assassin and the Shadow Hawk come immediately to mind. The Shad uses a large number of extremely inefficient weapons (much like the JagerMech), the ASN has too big an engine.
>or a fragile heavy?
Ostsol/Ostroc, Quickdraw, Rifleman. All have armor problems; in the case of the RFL, it's too thin to take support fire, let alone direct fire. The Osts are just burning so much tonnage on engines and guns that they can't afford the endurance, but they're excellent hit-and-run designs. The Quickdraw is only lightly-gunned (mostly for close combat), and can't really catch most Mediums, so it's in a world of hurt when it needs to mix things up with heavies.
Meanwhile, even though the Hunchback has massive armor for its size, it's still only got about as much as an Ost. Since the primary armament makes it really goddamned tempting to go toe-to-toe with the big boys, it winds up feeling underarmored even though strictly speaking it isn't.
It's also important in LII tech to consider things like having XL engines, CASE, and ammo in the same spot: if you brew up, the 'Mech is dead, period. You need better armor on things with explosives in general, but with XLs it's a literal lifesaver.
>>47731554
But the Assassin doesn't have a engine size problem. It has the same weapons tonnage as a Jenner, with comparable speed and armor weight. It's just the choice of what to do with that weapon space that makes one top of the line, and the other a running joke.
>>47732597
>LII tech
tournament legal tech
>>47732495
*reads text clip and does a spittake*
How... how have NONE of you ever commented on the fact that the Fidelis warship is literally named "Intestinal Gas"???
In the history of CGL epic fails, this one's gotta be pretty high on the list.
>>47732967
>How... how have NONE of you ever commented on the fact that the Fidelis warship is literally named "Intestinal Gas"???
we did, in 2013
and we talked bout the fact Fidelis' emblem is literally inspired by Smoke Jaguar's
>>47733017
How has anyone in-universe not noticed the logo similarities?
>>47733017
Hm, weird. I've been around that long, but I don't remember it coming up. The insignia thing, yes. But I'd have thought the bad jokes would've been memorable.
Rules question: Does a shield bash do the same damage as a hatchet?
>>47732899
Dear peadantryanon: kindly go fuck yourself
>>47732967
The best part?
One of the authors noticed, retconned it to be a typo of "Fiatus" and was then immediately retconned BY THE LINE DEV. Because Herb is an irredemable cunt, the SS Fartypants must be allowed to live forever in history.
>>47733173
Well, given that fiatus is Latin for fiat, that wouldn't have been much better. More honest, but not much better.
>>47733173
dearest grog, it isn't my fault you can keep with the new terms
>>47733263
fiatus and fiat are two different latim words
>>47733338
Hm, guess I found yet another Google Translate bug. Even disagrees with itself sometimes, if you put a translated phrase back through it.
>>47733095
The print and .pdf versions helpfully leave that information out.
The errata says they do their DA for damage though.
>>47733562
Then use a dictionary, plebeian.
So I went out and bought a lance for WoB, and I'm curious as to how I did.
1 Crab CRB-27
1 Titan II TI-2P
1 Deva Dominus
1 Preta Dominus
1 Ninja-To NJT-2
1 Legacy LGC-01
1 Fafnir FNR-5
1 Vanquisher VQR-2A
1 Osprey OSP-26
I was trying to put together a heavy hitting Heavy/Assault Lance with a mix of medium and light mechs for support.
>>47733896
Thank you!
>>47733978
>WoB
>Ninja-to
-Osprey
wat
The Celestials aside it would work for a RotS unit but those seem a bit weird.
>>47734301
They were in the master unit list. So I went with it.
>PURPLE BURD GET FUCKED
>>47731171
Oh god, it's worse than I ever feared.
It's full of fucking Brazilians.
>>47733308
>dearest grog, it isn't my fault you can keep with the new terms
My beloved pedant,
If the developers continue to insist that it is and ever shall be the Star League/Succession Wars through fear of moving forward into exciting new plot threads, it is good enough reason for me to continue speaking as though they were the present era.
Faithfully yours,
-A Dinosaur.
Would a downgraded Cestus be an unreasonable thing to put in a 3sw-era cappie march davion lance?
They were making them on kathil till the 2sw, and they didn't use endo or anything, so I feel like some downgraded models surviving wouldn't be unreasonable
>>47735074
No, it's full of the Fallout-esque postnuclear descendants of Brazilians. And by "full of" we mean "fewer left on the whole planet than a good sized town's population". Does that make you feel better?
>>47737105
If there's one thing that MW2's favela level told me, it's that Brazilians NEVER run out. All you can do is run.
>>47736778
That's a fairly fast refit. Pull XL engine, GR, 3t ammo, and 12 DHS, add standard engine, AC5, 1t ammo, and 14 HS. You end up with a half ton open, I suppose you could put in a SL but it didn't feel right. Put 2 HS in each side and the ammo bin in the CT for extra SW vibe.
>>47737138
I don't remember the MechWarrior 2 mission where we got to level Rio. Feels like a very Jade Falcon thing to do though.
>>47737576
Modern Warfare 2. That was back before I outgrew being a cawadooty kiddie.
>>47736778
I dunno, retaining anything like its weapon load is going to require significant sacrifice. GRs are usually downgraded to A/C-20s, -10s in worst-case scenarios. Losing the XL, GR, and DHS costs it a lot.
The only way I could retain a decent weapons loadout, the heat sinks to kind of use it and some armour was to go down to 3/5.
An A/C-5 like in >>47737548 can be done but then you get a Marauder-M that's gone on a diet.
I'd just use a Crusader, Thunderbolt, or Catapult.
>>47737602
Urrgh, at least leave the guns in the right spots. So move the MLs to the arms and put the AC in the RT.
>>47737645
I had no idea where they went, I just guessed.
>>47737602
I didn't quite consider the loadout parallel, but the Marauder-M on a diet is pretty accurate. You don't have the joy of being heat neutral on a long range alpha, but you get more armor coverage instead. I'd field it.
>>47737548
>>47737602
I actually already had a setup in mind, kinda going back to the cestus' roots, with a GR-for-PPC swap, and loosing half a ton of armor that barely did anything anyhow for 17 SHS
>>47737847
Hm, not bad. Or you could put a 3rd LL in the torso and 2 more HS, then you'd have enough to fire 2/3 and run.
Anybody else here sometimes have more fun designing IndustrialMechs than BattleMechs?
Russki just got the Huelander 2C.
>>47738379
Nope.
WarShips, on the other hand...
>>47734301
>Osprey
>not WoB
WoB revived its production, it is clearly written in TRO 3085
>>47735074
Você iria ficar decepcionado se você soubesse que tem um brasileiro postando nessa thread? E que eu estou por aqui regularmente já faz mais de 3 anos?
>>47734950
Your faggotry has summoned me from my hibernation, so that I might laugh at you. Purple burd is the finest wine of factions.
>>47739158
btg TRO news when?
>>47739158
800 years of existence, 20 minutes of screen time, 5 of that the FWL falling.
>>47739167
Couple of days. IRL stuff has been going on pretty heavily
>>47739172
>FedSuns
>20 minutes of screen time
>derp around during 3039
>derp around during Clan Invasion
>derp around during Civil War
>derp around during Jihad
>derp around during DA
How will the FWL ever compete
>>47739193
>20 minutes of FS screentime
Muninn pls. Everyone knows that BattleTech is essentially the story of the Feddies. The only thing we're missing at this point is an Aerosmith song to cap it off.
>>47739051
AeroTech is too fun.
Which would win, a Clan Bane mech or an Albatross -4U? Which is the bigger mech?
>>47734301
WoB took Vega (Ninja-to factory) in 3069 and held it till 3075.
>>47737599
Round these parts MW(number) still means that iteration of the Mechwarrior games.
>>47739210
Best faction, best mechs, best regiments.
>>47739193
>''''''''Free''''''''
>''''''''Worlds''''''''
>''''''''League''''''''
>>47738805
Just started getting into battletech about a week ago. I've been developing a following of about 20 players.
I need source of this model. Being able to show new guys these awesome designs helps recruitment immensely.
>>47743444
Warhansa, a bunch of friendly Russian gentlemen who provide these MWO-style minis.
>>47743484
Looks like they added a few more sculpts, including a rather knightly looking fellow.
>>47743444
>I need source of this model. Being able to show new guys these awesome designs helps recruitment immensely.
Check any of the archived threads for the last month, it's in there.
>>47739525
>Which would win, a Clan Bane mech or an Albatross -4U? Which is the bigger mech?
Depends on the Bane - the base one is kinda shite, and specifically designed to game the Solaris rules. The 2 is okay, the 3 is a fucking monster, and the 4 is a King Crab IIC.
Against the -4U, I'd put my money on any of the Banes every time; better torso armor, CASE that doesn't kill it, and the ability of every model but the -2 to outdamage the Albatross at literally every range band.
The Bane is heavier and fatter, the Albatross is taller.
>>47743511
Damn it!
I was telling myself I'd not put in another order until the Black Knight came out. And the damn thing just comes out before I've even got the last lot painted.
Jenner IIC is also up.
>>47741750
There he is. There he goes again. Look, everyone! He posted it once again! Isn’t he just the funniest guy around?! Oh my God.
I can almost see your pathetic overweight frame glowing in the dark, lit by your computer screen which is the only source of light in your room, giggling like a little girl as you once again s*** your little "I hate Purple Bird" meme up and fill in the captcha. Or maybe you don’t even fill in the captcha. Maybe you’re such a disgusting NEET that you actually paid for a 4chan gold pass. Oh, and we all know the meme. The “epic” I hate the FWL meme, isn’t it? I imagine you little s*** laughing so hard as you type it that you drop your Doritos on the floor, but it’s ok, your mother will clean it up in the morning. Oh, that’s right. Did I fail to mention? You live with your mother. You are a fat f***ing f***up, she’s probably so sick of you already. So sick of having to do everything for you all goddamn day, every day, for a grown man who spends all his time on /btg/ posting about a f***ing meme. Just imagine this. She had you, and then she thought you were gonna be a scientist or an astronaut or something grand, and then you became a NEET. A pathetic "I hate the FWL" NEET. She probably cries herself to sleep everyday thinking about how bad it is and how she wishes she could just disappear and how great House Marik is. She can’t even try to talk with you because all you say is “I REALLY REALLY HATE THE FREE WORLDS LEAGUE." You’ve become a parody of your own self. And that’s all you are. A sad little man laughing in the dark by himself as he prepares to indulge in the same old dance that he’s done a million times now. And that’s all you’ll ever be.
>>47744063
Thanks for the pasta friendo!
can anyone please upload the BT toyota stats?
>>47741149
>"But daaaaa-aad, I want to go to the NAMA!"
Also, if the list of best regiments don't include the 8th Lyran Regulars or the 5th Oriente Hussars, that list is full of Comstar disinformation.
>>47745753
>the meme hatters
>relevant
>>47740126
Or Quentin was the factory, still taken By WOB and held till late in Jihad. Something like that.
>>47745666
>can anyone please upload the BT toyota stats?
Well, these are the ones I came up with back when that was a thing..
>>47745987
>final cost 5,882,496 C-bills
What in the ever-loving fuck?
>>47746098
Be scared to see what a Tacoma costs.
>>47745987
thanks!
>>47746130
Kek
>>47746098
>>47746130
Heh, yeah. It's the cost multipliers on support weapons doing it; somehow mounting a laser machinegun on a truck makes it cost 125 times as much as putting it on a tripod for your infantry to use. Maybe they're factoring in a 10-rated SFE for every firgging laser or something?
Oh, and I need to actually re-calculate the BV for those, they changed the rules for infantry BV last summer and I just haven't had the fucks to give.
Classic vs Alpha Strike
Sell me on your favorite
>>47746486
Classic has the detail of record sheets that's really what sets Battletech apart from Warmachine, Infinity, or 40k.
Alpha Strike is just another wargame.
>>47746486
>BattleTech
more detailed
>Alpha Strike
you can play a full game, with most of the optional rules, way faster than introtech game
>>47746508
>Alpha Strike is just another wargame.
so it is superior to Classic Battletech, I get it
>>47746508
>>47746524
>>47746553
So if i had to convince other people to start playing wich would be the better ruleset and the most appealing?
>>47746649
Classic battletech. Put them in a 1v1 between a Dragon and a Dervish.
>>47746649
it depends on what these other people want
BatleTech is detailed but it gets a while to get interesting (i.e. using Tactical Operations rules). On the other hand Alpha Strike is easy to pick up but not as detailed
>>47746666
serious question, why people suggest this? This was very similar to my first game (Dragon against Jagermech) and I was bored to death with the game. Never touch the game again until I saw Maximum Tech. That shit was dope
Don't be afraid to use simpler "advanced" mechs, your players aren't retarded
>>47746745
>Don't be afraid to use simpler "advanced" mechs
Like what?
>>47746666
>>47746745
Honestly? The most recent intro match I ran was an Enforcer and a Treb, up against a Vindie and a Dragon. We had a grand old time charging across a 2x1 battlefield.
On turn 4, the Enforcer took a PPC shot to the back of the head and it critted out his cockpit. A running 14-turn gunbattle ensued. It was a fun, tight fight, and my opponent won by charging the bleeding Vindicator off of a cliff with her armless, blown-apart Treb. It had two shots left by the end, no lasers, and was holding on to its left leg by 1pt of IS. The Dragon died due to pilot trauma after falling down missing a kick (and the pilot getting knocked unconscious by a lucky headshot earlier in the game), and the vindie was down to its head laser at that stage.
Dragon vs. Jaeger is >shit<, because neither has the capacity to do serious harm to the other and there's no chance to teach important things like concentrating fire and the importance of movement order. Always do at least 2 vs. 2, not least because BattleTech! can and >will< happen when you least need it to..
>>47747114
most of the advanced tech isn't hard at all for new players
Mechs with XL engines, Gauss Rifle. ER Lasers/PPC, Endo Steel, Ferro-Fibrous, LB-X 2 or 5... All these equipments are simple rule-wise (except the LB-X, but they work like SRMs). Pulse Lasers and Ultra ACs deviates a little from the norm, it make sense for them not being "intro" rules. Also, I don't recommend LB-X 10 and 20 because you have to roll too many cluster hits.
Clan vs Clan games can be as easy as intro tech games and way more interesting for new playersthe real answer for which rule level you should start lies on their favorite mechs. Do they like better Timber Wolves or Warhammers? the first game should be about them playing anything they think it looks cool
>>47747487
Introtech teaches one thing that tournament lvl/level 2 usually can't. Heat management.
Did anyone ever make a mini of pic related? I loved the mech in MW4 Mercs and wanted to use it on the tabletop.
>>47747588
This.
My preferred intro teaching matchup is Warhammer-6R VS Wolverine-6M for this exact reason. I run it twice back-to-back, with the new guy getting to handle both mechs and see the contrast.
>>47747588
>>47748159
Surprisingly, Chameleon trainers are also excellent for more advanced training matches (although with their armor and ammo issues, you need to do more than one per side..),for the same reason. They can be comepletely paralyzed, even detonated, if you're not careful, but they teach you how to ride the heat curve like nothing else.
Now if only my godsdamned VT-1Ds from the kickstarter EVER FUCKING SHOW UP, I'll be able to run more of those matches..
>>47748108
custom made, yes. There's guy selling them on ebay, but they don't look good as this one
>>47748309
damn that's sweet.
>>47747588
>>47748221
on the other had, heat management is only a huge problem with introtech and since we are talking about new players it is actually good they don't have to deal with heat problems in their first games
by the way, when you run introductory games do you use the quick-start rule-set or the complete introtech rule-set?
>>47748357
there's also Plog's lineart commissioned by some anon
>>47748377
>it is actually good they don't have to deal with heat problems in their first games
Which is why I like to take the warhammer in the warhammer/Wolverine matches. They get to drive a mech with good heat management, and to watch me struggle with the warhammer, and learn a bit that way
As for your question, since everyone I've ever introduced has had a fair bit of tabletop time already, I use the full rules instead of quick start, but I don't recommend it for everyone
>>47748309
Hot.
On the topic of introductory scenarios, what'd be a good set up to introduce vehicles and infantry to a new-ish player? (say one with ~5 mech on mech battles under their belt)
>>47748377
>by the way, when you run introductory games do you use the quick-start rule-set or the complete introtech rule-set?
I give them the introtech ruleset and a copy of the BMR with highlighter on the parts that changed and notes about the new rules. I also keep a bookmarked physical copy of TW at the table with the really critical parts indexed (breach checks, charge attacks, DFAs, using arms as clubs, all the fun shit newbies want to do - even if they don't know it yet).
I run it on a mirrored pair of the introbox "Battletech" maps, explaining the more complicated stuff (water, cover, melee attack options) as things come up. I make a deliberate effort to demonstrate some of the weirder stuff, like falling into water, on my end of the table. I also make some sub-optimal moves, while explaining why they're bad but possibly worthwhile, and explain the options they have for really tough choices (like finding ideal range bands versus getting off a nasty alpha versus having a good place to hide next turn versus just running flat-out to get a decent TMM and shooting on elevens instead of leaving yourself wide open to shoot on sixes)
The first game usually takes about three hours, but by the end of it they're pretty conversant with the rules and know how to look things up. After two or three, they're usually up to TL tech, and only asking me about critically weird rules interactions or really tough choices.
I find throwing them into the deep end with a lifeguard in the pool right beside 'em is most likely to get someone into the game - they know you're not out to screw them, but you're not just >letting< them win, and having someone do cool crazy shit just because there's nothing riding on it reminds them that it's an option when the shit really hits the fan.
>heat management is only a huge problem with introtech
It leads to good habits later, and emphasizes the balance you have to strike between your various resources - especially with Clanner designs.
>>47750334
>On the topic of introductory scenarios, what'd be a good set up to introduce vehicles and infantry to a new-ish player? (say one with ~5 mech on mech battles under their belt)
Well, I always loved the Scorpion's Nest, but they may want a "fair" fight. Try an assault on some turrets and militia vees set up around a smash-and-grab target like a supply dump. Infantry innawoods nearby, and maybe some wheeled or mechanized in support (like the aformentioned Hilux platoon). It helps to have water for a hover or two to horse around on (I like the Pegasus and J. Edgar), woods and a road to demonstrate wheeled vs. tracked vs. hover movement, and an LRM/SRM carrier to teach them to respect vees.
Player should have access to jumping 'Mechs for the first fight, so he can watch you go through the vee rules and explain them. After that, try a tonk-on-tonk scenario with a Firestarter, Locust, Pixie, or Vulcan (or Warhammer) backing them up, along with a couple more conventional anti-'Mech designs (to show the difference in combat styles). Loading up a Shad with AP ammo and Infernoes is also hilarious for teaching a newbie, and it gives you an excuse to haul the old girl out.
>>47750977
On that note, here's the Scorpion's Nest I wrote back in '13. It's a tough fight, but it's also easy to adjust the difficulty to match what your players are comfortable with. I'd suggest skipping the Hidden Unit rules for new players, maybe even the building rules, and giving them a straight 25 VP for every Scorpion they take down. You could add infantry really easily to that as well.
>>47746486
>Classic vs Alpha Strike
>Sell me on your favorite
Classic: Detail, wild and crazy shit happens on a fairly regular basis, and there's a deep satisfaction in watching chunks get blown off your enemy. It's more tense, movement is much more critical to your tactics, it feels more personal and high-stakes. It leads naturally into campaigns, which are my favorite way to play a wargame, and it's easier to run scenarios besides "shoots the mans until he falls downs".
I like Classic because it feels direct and personal and immersive, even with the plodding gameplay and occasional brutal slapdown from Lady Luck.
Alpha Strike: Great for running a large game without getting bogged down, but it lacks the personal connection. It's also more easily-gamed in many ways, and the feeling of gradually having your 'Mech shot out from under you is gone. It also has some critical, deeply un-fun rules issues that remain unresolved.
I find Alpha Strike less-exciting, but it does let me scratch a different itch than Classic without requiring new models. I can also set up a pickup game faster and with less negotiation in AS, so it's good for a a quick afternoon's fucking about.
Really, it's the difference between a really good night of Mordheim/Necromunda/This is Not a Test versus a completely disposable 1,750-point 40k game.
Dear /btg/
Tell me about your worst and/or best experiences with that most magical of occurrences, the Golden BB.
>>47752126
>get forced to use that Mist Lynx with the LB-2XA/C in a Grand Melee
>hit with one cluster on a Turkina, rip out its engine with three crits to the CT
>die next turn when a Nova S lands next to me
>>47752126
>Get a piece of shit Banshee
>Proceed to run around kicking heads off with the thing
Yes, heads.
>>47752126
>playing a canon clan invasion game as FedCom (pre-retcon)
>fuck
>roll a damn blackjack as one of my four mediums
>take a AC/2 shot at max range on a pristine Dire Wolf, first shot of the fight
>Golden BB
>triple engine crit
>I DARE REFUSE YOUR BATCHALL
IIRC after that it ended up with one armless Puma left out of the star compared to one locust with no side torsos and literally 1 IS in each leg and a one-legged warhammer that was technically still standing, though it had exactly one working weapon.
so almost a draw, but I think I did good for going equal losses to the clans at only 2:1 with introtech
>>47752126
not technically the same, but I once had a green Hollander nail back-to-back headshots in the first game of a campaign.
we all agreed that he deserved a promotion to Regular for that
>>47752177
Ouch.
>>47752299
Got the high ground on your opponents so your kicks were rolling on the punch table?
>>47752306
Fuckin' nice.
>>47731171
Has there ever been a Battletech TCG?
>>47752388
Yes, it was... meh?
>>47752388
it was a thing, yes. wasn't amazing, wasn't crap. it was just kinda a thing that was part of the battletech multimedia boom back then
>>47731171
>uehueheuheuh, gibe ded world plos r i nuke u
LONG LIVE BELKA
>>47752428
Now I want to see a Polandball variation done with battletech factions.
>>47752516
Draconis can't into DHS.
Is Heavy Metal Plus better than SSW for making non-Mech units?
>>47753066
If it was 10 years ago, yes. Now? MegaMekLab is better for everything short of protos and infantry. And you can do those by hand.
>>47753090
Noted.
>>47753090
Speaking of that, anybody else have the thing go all zonky like it doesn't want to fully load the screen when you try to bring up the equipment tab for 'Mechs?
>>47752388
>>47752401
>>47752420
I'm not sure but the TCG might've been my first contact with battletech. Maybe MW2 Mercs came before that but I loved the card game. I almost never got to play it but the art looked super cool to me back then and I still really lika a lot of it. Pic related, still coolest looking Urbanmech.
How was the TRO art back then compared to the card game?
>>47753391
>How was the TRO art back then compared to the card game?
TRO? Not the greatest, they hired Duane Loose back on for 3058 and, according to the artists, didn't even bother revising the drafts they were sent for 3060. Now, the >sourcebook< art for that time period was fucking awesome.
>>47753491
Both of these are from the 4e Master Rules book, which was freaking excellent. I still use it to train newbies, because nothing else is so simply laid-out and still reasonably current.
>>47753499
>>47753507
Tell me there's not one hell of a story in this picture. Look me in the eye and tell me that and you're a better liar than half the politicians in this country.
>>47753552
>>47753559
>>47753565
One of the things I really like about the 4e era was their willingness to use unconventional perspectives and cool situations, not flogging the same claustrophobic battle scenes and stained-glass window setpieces over and over.
>>47753575
>>47753589
>>47753602
MJ in particular did a lot of cool stuff, but Jeff Laubenstein had his own cool factor; even Matt Plog reached out and experimented more than he does these days, although I suspect that has more to do with incompetent and/or cowardly art direction and less to do with his technical abilities. Although I really want him to learn how to use goddamned depth of field techniques and shading again so his drawings stop being flat planes of confusing lines wiht no real deliniation between actors..
>>47753633
>>47753638
>>47753650
>>47753659
Anyway, I'm going back to bed. More art and commentary later.
>>47753559
Is that a Stone Rhino on the left? Because hot-dropping a 100-ton 'Mech with those strap-on jump jet packs must be the manliest thing you can do wearing a cooling vest and shorts.
>>47753707
The thing always had JJs.
>>47753707
Belay that, the Stone Rhino had jets on its own. However this does not decrease the manliness of hot-dropping in a 100-tonner at all.
>>47753668
Hey, thanks for sharing, Many of these were new to me.
I wish there were more more colored BT art. The TCG art has the problem of being for ants when you find it online most of the time.
>>47753976
One of my favs, the Nova D.
>>47754017
And a Spider. I had a 5V too I think it was but I can't even find it in my cards or online.
>>47752516
If Polandball wasn't so cancerous now it might be neat
>>47754143
SHAKARA!
Let's not forget TCG gave us best Black Lanner.
>>47754143
Charles Gillespie always made his mech blue, what's that about? His Black Knight and other stuff were pretty nice.
And also what I personally regard as best Grasshopper.
>>47753976
It is indeed a damn shame there isn't higher resolution/quality images of this stuff out there.
>>47754176
Best Grasshopper. I'll stop spamming TCG art now.
>>47754180
Grasshopper mind. That one is pretty sweet,it's got a better angle.
>>47754199
THen I'll keep up! Or just post one more, because I really like this one, especially for being so dynamic in motion.
I love the MW games, but I think they really colored a lot of people's perception's of how mechs move in a bad way, especially those introduced to the franchise through the games.
>>47754265
Ha, was just looking through my cards and found that Firestarter, nice. And agree on the movement thing thing, mechs seemed a lot more dynamic going by some images from the card game. It's a shame there hasn't been a mech warrior/commander/assault game with proper physical combat and stuff. Even tiny stuff like this cyclops laying it's hand on the pillar besides it makes it seem a lot more mobile.
>>47754365
>And agree on the movement thing thing
Can't make proper sentences, I suck.
I've been wondering about this card. Sorry for the poor quality, couldn't find better. The card says Inner Spere but there's no neuro-helmet and it looks like he has EI stuff on his face.
>>47754410
Looks like he's doing robot sounds with his mouth
What are some of your favorite camo patterns?
Pics of your painted minis if you have the pattern in use.
STAYING AAAALLIIIIIIIIIIIIIYIIIIIYIIIIIVEE!!!
>>47754942
The Otomo's black and gold is my favourite. However, as a long-time Drac player, it is extra dishonorabru to admit that my second favourite scheme is the Davion Guards' red-white-blue one.
>>47757033
obviously. nova cuck leadership went from bad to worse.
Came across this in the 3075 TRO:
>Star Captain Harris West: One of the most vocal of the Nova Cat Delta Galaxy’s infantry members, West is in the minority of voices that do not like the adamant direction the Khans are taking the Clan. He insists that chasing after an unproven Inner Sphere leader such as Devlin Stone will only lead to the death of the Clan in the future.
Was he right?
>>47757067
I'm thinking they probably should have stayed in the Clan Homeworlds or went to half of the Combine that borders the Outworld Alliance.
>>47757067
Yeah, at least the Smoke Jaguars fought to the death for their beliefs in a story arc that defined a generation of MechWarriors.
The Nova Cats just became pets, then cannon fodder, then were utterly fucked over and genocided in the background. Even their damn civilians were killed or sterilized. I'm guessing that part wasn't in the visions of Leroux and Carns.
>>47757154
>The Nova Cat civilians fared a little better than the warriors. At least they got to keep their lives. With no one to protect them, the civilian castes were rounded up and subjected to forced sterilization before being scattered across the Combine as members of the Unproductive class. Many committed suicide rather than face such a fate. Men, women, and children alike suffered at the hands of the DCMS and the people of the Combine—to their eternal shame—permitted and even encouraged it. The Coordinator never once spoke out against such treatment. In a few short decades, there will likely be no one left who can claim to have once been a proud Nova Cat.
Was this in Severen's visions?
>>47757226
Don't forget:
>Of the military forces of the Nova Cats, there is little to say. None of them survived. The regiments of the DCMS were ruthless in tracking down every last Star and Point and showing no mercy to the defeated warriors. The sole cluster that managed to escape the Combine’s retribution made the mistake of crossing the border into the Rasalhague Dominion. Hailing the garrison at Rubigen, Star Colonel Yusuf Rosse requested asylum for his demoralized and exhausted warriors. Rather than answer them, the Bears mercilessly destroyed the incoming DropShips, and followed that up by seizing the Cats’ JumpShip and spacing the crew.
Fucking merciless. Even the Bears, for some reason. Did Ben Rome hate the Cats?
>>47757226
Nigger sphere once again proving that you CANNOT trust a faction made up of slant-eyed subhumans, dune baboon shitskins and squatting shit-eating slavs.
>>47757294
>>47757226
The Smoke Jaguars had the right idea for them.
What do I read to catch up on the homeworld clan events after Wars of Reaving?
Is there even anything?
>>47757320
Yeah but "Jag Harder" wasn't in the writer's guide for winning strategies, and literally everything was tilted to go wrong for them. Impetus of War set the tone for their future against the Sues of the universe.
That said, as a Nova Cat fan I envy the badass end the Jaguars got with an entire book series devoted to their death. In hindsight the Cats never should have defected.
>tfw you will never be 'ara-ara~'d by Sassie Cassie
>>47757353
Aside for WoR supplemental, no.
>>47757370
Their remnants are also apparently still kicking strong as it's mentioned in several TROs that former Smoke Jaguar Warriors have appeared over the years since that Clan's destrucion.
From challengers in Solaris to a Dashi pilot who showed up in the Jade Falcon OZ and started wrecking things before being taken down, and this before considering characters like Russou Howell.
>>47757776
>a Dashi pilot who showed up in the Jade Falcon OZ
Source on that one?
But yeah it does seem usually no faction usually dies in its entirety, as the number of Jaguar survivors indicates. So the fact the writers explicitly suggested no Nova Cats survived in the Combine is pretty harsh. All we have left are the tattered remnants that fled the Republic's collapse to the safety of the Spirit Cats.
>>47757738
Well that's disappointing but unsurprising.
Thought there might have been some kind of major incursions during the time between that and derp age.
>>47757894
>the fact the writers explicitly suggested no Nova Cats survived in the Combine is pretty harsh
This.
Turns out it's pretty hard to completely wipe out a massive group of people if they have space travel. Seemed like a move taken because being grimdark was in vogue not because it fit the setting in any way.
>>47757894
>Source on that one?
TRO 3085, pg 166:
> Deployment
> The Flamberge has been assigned to premier Falcon units, such as Epsilon’s Fifth Battle Cluster and the First Falcon Strikers. Many ristars and prominent warriors have been assigned the new design. Galaxy Commander Kerensky was assigned one after she destroyed her third Thor in five years with her aggressive tactics, and shortly thereafter Gamma Galaxy requested as many of the machines as they could get.
> On Phecda, a former Smoke Jaguar warrior in his Masakari was terrorizing Falcon warriors. Ingrid Pryde had her techs outfit her ’Mech in the B configuration and engaged him. By randomly firing her plasma cannons and infernos, she dampened his return fire while she cut his ’Mech up with her lasers and SRMs. As a last desperate tactic, he fired all his weapons and savaged the Flamberge, but overheated his ’Mech. An aimed shot to the cockpit ended his service with the Blakists. Ingrid Pryde’s exploits have made the Flamberge an acceptable choice to traditionalists in the Clan.
My mistake, it appears it wasn't a Dashi.
>>47757978
>Seemed like a move taken because being grimdark was in vogue not because it fit the setting in any way.
Welcome to literally the entirety of CGL's run as the makers of battletech
>>47757276
>>47757978
>Rather than answer them, the Bears mercilessly destroyed the incoming DropShips, and followed that up by seizing the Cats’ JumpShip and spacing the crew.
That'll teach those assholes to try and claim one of our Leviathans!
>>47757978
>Well that's disappointing but unsurprising.
>Thought there might have been some kind of major incursions during the time between that and derp age.
ISP 3 has more detail on Escorpion Imperio. Other than that...Before we made the TRO hew closer to canon, several of my Clan designs had either encountered, or were developed by, the Homeworlds. Including one I cut from consideration period, because of an implied source of the tech. Apparently CGL had the same idea.
So like the new Atlas and King Krab, who is likely to produce a new version of the Highlander in the Dark Age?
The Federated Suns or Lyran Commonwealth?
>>47758624
Well StarCorps is only producing it on Son Hoa, though they still sell it to the LCAF. So... the Lyrans?
>>47753976
>I wish there were more more colored BT art. The TCG art has the problem of being for ants when you find it online most of the time.
Well, there >was< a color section in the 4e rulebook. But most of the color stuff is covers, sadly.
As far as the CCG art goes, Doug Chaffee and MJ both posted scans of their original art to their web protfolios. MJ also has a Deviantart. I'm pretty sure some of the other guys did, so you might want to go hunting about on the webs
>>47758979
MJ is better than most of CGL's crop because he worked on ReBoot, at least to me.
>>47758979
>wolfhounds
Panthers.
What's the absolutely best (anc possibly OP) mech for each weight class? Every TRO is allowed as long as it's official.
>>47759505
For the 3050-ish period, my vote would be the Devastator-2D (four extraordinarily lethal long-range weapons) and the Turkina variant with the pulse laser/targeting computer (just walk in and let the light show begin).
>>47759505
No trollin' but usually I find Capellan mechs to be the best in their weight classes. Perhaps not insta-headcappers like say the >>47759587 proposes with the Devastator (which is a damn good candidate), but Capellan mechs are usually very well-designed machines that work excellently in their roles.
So maybe for a duelist I'd pick a guazzilla, but in terms of picking options in their weight classes for unit action I almost always go full Liao.
>>47759505
>light
The Wulfen's two big energy weapon variants just outright win against so many mechs it isn't funny.
>Medium
If you ask the more butthurt among /btg/, probably an LAM.
Personally, I can't think of any medium that is just completely unfair; Clan omnis like the Nova and Stormcrow pack a lot of punch for their size, while fast, jumpy pulseboats like the Wraith and Uziel 8S do rude things to rear armor for a small amount of BV. They all can get shot to shit by superior firepower and to-hit bonuses though.
>Heavy
Probably still just the Mad Cat.
>Assault
The Hellstar is probably the best general anti-mech mech in the game so far. It's a critpadded zombie with a long-ranged loadout, max armor, and rolls to headcap four times a turn. Yes, it has one less 15-damage shot than the Gausszilla, but it also goes twice as fast and doesn't have a crit chart full of explodium.
The Pillager is another choice that I would also agree with. It lacks the ded killyness of the Hellstar, but it replaces it with stealth armor; a technology that can, in the right situation, make the Pillager's two gauss rifles infinitely more effective than any number of clan ERPPCs.
>>47759505
Hellstar for assaults. Not even a fuckin' contest
>>47759505
Whichever one is being piloted by the writer's favorite character, clearly.
>>47759985
Or gray noton
>>47760079
In his off the shelf Rifleman :)
>>47759953
I forgot to mention the Great Turtle, which is the only mech capable of winning a game of "let's stand in the nuke's blast radius"
>>47758979
I already found MJs DA, I'll look for Doug's stuff too. Any idea if Clint Langley's art is up somewhere too?
>>47743676
New to these threads. How often does warhansa get sculpts? I'd love to grab an MWO warhammer... along with like a dozen others from the lists on their site.
>>47760446
They just added the Black Knight, and the Highlander IIC.
>>47760446
Seems to be every other week or so adds a couple of mechs.
I don't know if the pace has increased due to us noticing them though, but I suspect they've had a busy period of late.
>>47760505
Yeah, but I just discovered warhansa last night. So should i check it like.. weekly? monthly?
>>47760530
The Cauldron Born was added maybe 2 weeks ago?
Wait, the DCMS genocided the Nova Cats? Fucking fuck.
>>47760650
D A R K A G E
A
R
K
A
G
E
spoiler alert: it only gets dumber and edgier from here
oh my, we have a grogjust kidding, but we all know someone will seriously take offense to people not like the Dark Age
>>47760713
Just when I think Dark Age is done being needlessly grimderp.
>>47760743
Just don't call it 'Derp Age' or that'll really set an autist off.
Just curious but in your opinions what are the best mechs manufactured in the Federated Suns?
For whatever era you're most familiar with is cool.
>>47760869
Best? No fucking idea, probably some bullshit Gauss boat from the 3050s-3060s that /btg/ likes to bitch about constantly. Favorite? Javelin(because I like missiles)and Atlas III(because I like triggering /btg/).
>>47760869
Atlas III, just because it's so intimidating and badass
>>47760650
Yes, although there is still a remaining bastion for any survivors of the nova cats within the clan protectorate, as their descendant faction, clan spirit cat is one of the founding members of the FWL subfaction.
As it stands, the spirit cats are unlikely to get killed off, what with the backing of both the FWL and the mighty Clan Space Jew, but it is likely that they will be completely and unrecognisably absorbed into one of those faction in the future. They are already a mixed grab bag of FWL natives, Nova Cat refugees and, Sea Fox warriors.
>>47761013
If any more Nova Cats straggle in from the Republic they may remain viable. The core of the clan is entirely dead or sterilized in the Combine though.
Speaking of Nova Cats, was it ever revealed what happened to their Zeta Galaxy after disappearing in the end of the first Dominion war? Something like two clusters worth of troops never being heard from again. It's unusual.
>>47761115
My cbills are on the long odds of Periphery bandit kingdom.
>>47761013
Unironically the Spirit Cats seem to be near or share a border with a very hostile Clan power, just as their predecessors did.
But being that the Empire of the Wolf is a paper nation compared to the Rasalhague Dominion, they might be in better straits.
>>47761115
>It's unusual.
Not for CGL it isn't
They probably just forgot and if you ask, they'll just be like "oops, dracs killed them all too low"
>>47761162
Yeah but the Wolf Empire also has, as some have described here, a crapload of seemingly provisional clusters made up of bondsmen that seem to fight like frontline trueborns whenever the plot requires it.
>>47761189
>crapload of seemingly provisional clusters made up of bondsmen that seem to fight like frontline trueborns whenever the plot requires it.
Worse than that, clusters of bondsmen WHO HATE THEM, equipped with CONVENTIONAL ARMOR, INFANTRY AND INDUSATRIALMECHS who fight like front line trueborn mech units when needed by lolCGL
>>47757086
No. The Dracs killed them for other, unrelated reasons.
>>47757276
>Did Ben Rome hate the Cats?
They owned the Ghost Bears so badly in a "canon" scenario it had to be over-ruled at the dev level so yeah, he probably had an extra special hateboner for them.
>>47758624
RotS because RotS, Capellans and FedSuns because anything good is likely to go to on or the other of them before anyone else.
>>47760869
Devastator, Nightstar, Saggittaire, Falconer, Marauder-D, Warhammer-D, RACturion, Osiris...
>>47761162
Apparently, Spirit Cat, has been keeping the Wolf Empire at bay from the rest of the FWL for years with logistical and military support from the Sea Foxes. I suppose their bromance with clan Sea Fox makes Spirit Cat defacto allies of the RotS in some small way.
>>47761189
You mean the same clusters who are, in some cases, self destructing, assassinating officers and have morale so low that they are unable and or unwilling to confront simple pirates and raiders?
>>47761357
>Apparently, Spirit Cat, has been keeping the Wolf Empire at bay from the rest of the FWL for years with logistical and military support from the Sea Foxes.
Is that before or after Alaric killed Thaddeus Marik?
>>47761362
I'm sorry, did you expect logic or consistency from the writers?
Especially after Guerrero, Xin Sheng, and the Jihad?
>>47761400
At least the FWL half of Guerrero made sense. The Liao half just seems like fanfic.
>>47761395
I love how butthurt the Republic is about him. It's like ever IC reference to him they throw in some attempt at an insult.
>>47761355
>They owned the Ghost Bears so badly in a "canon" scenario it had to be over-ruled at the dev level
To be fair, that was mostly because the scenario was written by an utter mong who had never played aerotech before and wrote a woefully imbalanced scenerio as a result. It SHOULD have been overruled. Of course, it should have then been rerun with balanced forces to get the actual result, but again,
>CGL
>>47761189
The Clusters were raised to replace their losses on paper after being mauled by the FWL and Lyrans.
They haven't actually fought anyone yet.
>>47761400
>Xin Sheng
That made sense to a certain degree.
>>47761429
Is there a copy of the scenario's OOB?
>>47761429
>but again,
>CGL
Actually, wasn't it FanPro back then? I thought that was before Inmediares was founded.
>>47761456
The same writers and most of the staff that were part of FanPro formed CGL.
>>47761432
>They haven't actually fought anyone yet.
Well some of them have seen action in raids by their Lyran and Free World's neighbors.
Otherwise you're correct.
>>47761438
>That made sense to a certain degree.
The whole "sun-tzu launches a huge propaganda campaign using Han nationalism to restore the CC's shit morale" part made plenty of sense. It was the results and the whole "former enemies falling over themselves to suck the capcon's dick" thing that was bullshit
>>47761452
There was a copy of the scenario on the private Demo Team site, but I can't access that anymore and I don't think I bothered downloading it. HOWEVER, a "hard" OOB isn't likely to happen; there's generally a sliding scale of "stuff in the fight" based on the number of pre-registered players for an event. Of course, that "sliding scale" is a thing that wasn't originally part of the DT, and it may be an old enough scenario that there *is* a hard OOB.
At the very least, I'll go check my notes and see if I can find anything. I took a fair number of notes about the event I played in (since I won the Lev mini), and a sample OOB should be in there.
>>47761513
Well I found everything save the Canopian-Taurian alliance wasn't too farfetched, including them regaining territory.
And even with the Magistracy and Concordat, it seemed Sun-Tzu was exploiting Taurian fears of Davion aggression and the Canopian desire for industrialization to achieve his aims.
>>47761513
Yeah, this guy has it. Having the Russian element conquered by the FedCom made the Xin Sheng thing make sense: double down on what's left that makes us CapCon. But the ridiculous results of Sun Tzu's 13th dimensional chess scheming was beyond stupid.
>>47761551
Cool, thanks. I was always curious what the opposing forces were.
>>47761490
Source?
I just checked FM: 3145 and there's nothing in there. The closest contact any of the new forces have with an IS power is one Galaxy that's smuggling as much of their shit to the Lyrans as they can, with the Wolves helpless to do anything but look on.
Raiding was light to non-existent and aimed at the proper Wolf forces rather than their shit-tier militia groupies.
>>47761590
>Having the Russian element conquered by the FedCom made the Xin Sheng thing make sense
Wasn't some of the Asian element conquered too?
If I recall, the Commonwealth conquered the ancestral homeworld of the Liao family also.
>>47761556
>Well I found everything save the Canopian-Taurian alliance wasn't too farfetched,
I dunno, the SIC armed forces turning around and becoming loyal capellan soldiers instantly was rather nonsensical.
Also the FWL giving them WarShips. It's as absolutely silly as the French giving fucking WEST GERMANY nukes in '46 (pretending that the French HAD nukes in '46)
Fuck, even fucking FREE CAPELLA went over to their goddamn side, and they're literally the most anti-Liao boys around
>>47761665
Yep, but the whole Russian part was gone. All that was left was largely of Chinese descent.
>>47761556
What about the whole
>nuked the AFFS in the jihad and suffered absolutely no consequences
thing?
We've seen what the realistic endgame for nuking the FedSuns is, and that's the fucking Dark Age Taurians. But the CC gets to do it and skip merrily into the sunset with their servent nation o'whores
>>47761665
Unless it's been retconned planet Liao itself wasn't really Asian per se as it had a very mixed settling and development (the Liao dynasty founder himself wasn't even Han, he was Anglo-Nepali).
>>47761748
>All that was left was largely of Chinese descent.
Aside from their outback regions, of which several worlds are of primarily taurian, davion or periphery general ancestry.
>>47761688
As to the warships, it was only three Impavidos built in a program the Confederation assisted with. And it made sense in the mid-50s since the threat of the FedCom juggernaut still existed theoretically and, for the League, the Confederation existed as a meat shield (or speedbump).
Not that I don't see your point of view.
>>47761688
>I dunno, the SIC armed forces turning around and becoming loyal capellan soldiers instantly was rather nonsensical.
I thought they just functioned in a capacity closer to mercenaries than loyal soldiers.
> Also the FWL giving them WarShips.
I thought that was just Thomas being friendly to his possible (but unwanted) son in law and to keep up the appearance that he supported the courtship between Sun-Tzu and his daughter and the Detente between the League and Confederation.
> Fuck, even fucking FREE CAPELLA went over to their goddamn side, and they're literally the most anti-Liao boys around
Since it seemed like the Confederation itself was in jeopardy after the supposed Davion strike on Sian, I thought Free Capella was just assisting in the defense of the Capellan people as they support the nation, but not it's leadership?
Also they weren't anti-Liao, just anti Romano and anti Sun-Tzu as I recall. Otherwise Tormano wouldn't have been a member.
>>47761841
>>47761855
>I thought that was just Thomas being friendly to his possible (but unwanted) son in law and to keep up the appearance that he supported the courtship between Sun-Tzu and his daughter and the Detente between the League and Confederation.
>built in a program the Confederation assisted with
That's exactly the problem, though. If the FWL was just trying to toughen them up as a speed bump or pay lip service to the alliance, the logical thing to do would be to give them ships, but no yards, so as to keep them reliant on the goodwill of the FWL to keep their ships flying. Giving them actual shipbuilding capacity would be complete lunacy, giving them such a permanent advantage that's so easy to turn against them in exchange for a marginally useful and obviously short-term alliance
>>47761985
>>47761855
>WoB plant
>Boosting the defense of a realm he thinks will be under the control of another WoB servitor within the decade
If you go with the idea that they were planning to assassinate Sunny T and put Kali in charge, at which they almost succeeded, it actually makes a lot of sense. You wind up with a very powerful alliance of the Marians, purple burd, Caps, and a defeated/co-opted Magistracy up against the ruins of the FedCom, not to mention a majority stake in the Star League council. At that point, having control of three shipyards is a HUGE asset (and insurance in case one of the others is lost or co-opted in turn).
To add to this, the best analogy that I can make using other states is that it's basically the equivalent of Victor Steiner-Davion handing the taurians a WarShip yard to get them to back him up in the FCCW/Bulldog; you're giving so much to someone who's absolutely 100% going to turn on you eventually. Maybe not in one ruler's lifetime, but you're handing over a tool which will make their sudden but inevitable betrayal that much worse
>>47762084
>If you go with the idea that they were planning to assassinate Sunny T and put Kali in charge, at which they almost succeeded
Huh.
I've never actually heard that one before, but if it's actually what the WoB's plan was, I withdraw most of my objection
>>47761452
>>47761551
OK, here's what I've got. We had 16 players total.
NOVA CATS (12 WarShips, 24 DropShips, 9 Assault Ships, 36 ASF Stars)
GROUP 1
>Congress (commander)
-2 DropShips, 2 medium, 2 heavy ASF Stars
>Aegis
-4 DropShips (1 assault) 1 Light, 2 Medium, 2 Heavy ASF Star
>Aegis
-4 DropShips (4 assault) 2 Heavy ASF Star
>Lola III
-1 Heavy ASF Star
>Carrack
-2 DropShips, 2 medium, 2 heavy ASF Star,
>Fredasa
Nova Cat GROUP 2 (reinforcements)
>York (commander)
-2 DropShips, 1 Light, 3 Medium, 3 Heavy ASF Star
>Aegis
-4 DropShips (2 assault), 2 Medium, 2 Heavy ASF Star
>Aegis
-4 DropShips (2 assault), 2 Medium, 2 Heavy ASF Star
>Carrack
-2 DropShips, 1 Light, 2 medium, 2 heavy ASF Star,
>Vincent
>Fredasa
...........................................................................
GHOST BURRS (10 WarShips, 15 DropShips; 9 Assault Ships; 15 ASF Stars)
>Nightlord
-4 DropShips (2 assault), 1 medium, 1 heavy ASF Star
>Texas
-2 DropShips (2 assault), 1 light, 2 medium, 1 heavy ASF Star
>Black Lion
-4 DropShips (2 assault), 1 medium, 1 heavy ASF Star
>Cameron
-2 DropShips (1 assault), 1 Light, 1 medium ASF Star
>York
-3 DropShips (2 Assault), 2 Light, 2 medium, 1 heavy ASF Star
>Whirlwind
>Essex
>Essex
>Lola III
>Fredsa
>>47762132
...fuck, no wonder it was a curb stomp.
>>47761985
It was WoB that helped them to develop maneuvering drives and expand the Necromo shipyards further to actually build warships.
>>47761985
>giving them such a permanent advantage that's so easy to turn against them in exchange for a marginally useful and obviously short-term alliance
While that is a fair point, would the Free Worlds even give them enough to make the Confederation a serious menace to them in the future?
I was under the impression Thomas was only giving them enough to bolster the Confederation, but not enough that the Free World's couldn't crumple Sun-Tzu's nation if hostilities began between powers.
With the Free World's League having the largest fleet of any Successor House (at that time) I doubt a few shipyards would have availed the Confederation much if any serious hostilities arose between them and the League.
>>47762132
>>47761633
FUCK. Sorry, there's a LOT of Aegis's and stuff to keep track of.
REVISED OOB:
NOVA CATS (12 WarShips, 24 DropShips, 9 Assault Ships, 42 ASF Stars)
GROUP 1
>Congress (commander)
-2 DropShips, 2 medium, 2 heavy ASF Stars
>Aegis
-4 DropShips (1 assault) 1 Light, 2 Medium, 4 Heavy ASF Star
>Aegis
-4 DropShips (4 assault) 2 Heavy ASF Star
>Lola III
-1 Heavy ASF Star
>Carrack
-2 DropShips, 2 medium, 2 heavy ASF Star,
>Fredasa
Nova Cat GROUP 2 (reinforcements)
>York (commander)
-2 DropShips, 1 Light, 3 Medium, 3 Heavy ASF Star
>Aegis
-4 DropShips (2 assault), 2 Medium, 4 Heavy ASF Star
>Aegis
-4 DropShips (2 assault), 2 Medium, 4 Heavy ASF Star
>Carrack
-2 DropShips, 1 Light, 2 medium, 2 heavy ASF Star,
>Vincent
>Fredasa
...........................................................................
GHOST BURRS (10 WarShips, 15 DropShips; 9 Assault Ships; 15 ASF Stars)
>Nightlord
-4 DropShips (2 assault), 1 medium, 1 heavy ASF Star
>Texas
-2 DropShips (2 assault), 1 light, 2 medium, 1 heavy ASF Star
>Black Lion
-4 DropShips (2 assault), 1 medium, 1 heavy ASF Star
>Cameron
-2 DropShips (1 assault), 1 Light, 1 medium ASF Star
>York
-3 DropShips (2 Assault), 2 Light, 2 medium, 1 heavy ASF Star
>Whirlwind
>Essex
>Essex
>Lola III
>Fredsa
>>47762132
AeroTech amateur here but what's the technical difference between dropships and assault dropships in the pre-PWS era?
>>47762163
The horrifying thing is that if you look *primarily* at the WarShips...it's actually a fairly balanced scenario. The Bears have a few fewer WarShips, but the Nova Cats come on in two groups. The Bears also have a hefty tonnage advantage, insofar as a 1.2 million-ton Texas can kill well more than its own tonnage in lighter craft, so the three really large ships on the Bear side (Texas, Black Lion, Nightlord) "outweigh" the fact that they Cats have more ships, even if a fair number of the Cat ships are NAC-boats.
The Nova Cat preponderance in DropShips barely matters, because what they were thinking *then* is that the only DropShips which matter in captical-scale combat are assault ships, and the two side are even-up there. The fact that the Cats had a 2-to-1 advantage in ASF numbers (and they have a lot more *heavy* ASF stars to boot) doesn't on its face outweigh the Bear advantage in WarShips I describe above.
So I can understand *how* this clusterfuck happened. I get the thought process behind it. The fact that it was allowed to happen and only underwent a playtesting process that would Admiral Yamamoto (pre-Midway) sit up and say, "now wait a minute, that's not right" is the travesty of game design here. And the fact that they wrote ludicrously broken ASF squadron rules and didn't bother to playtest THOSE because "who plays AeroTech anyway?" That's also pretty bullshit.
>>47762209
In this case, it's denoting DropShips meant for combat as separate from ASF-carrying DropShips. So if you look at the Ghost Bear York, and you see it's got 2 droppers and 1 is an assault ship, that means the 2nd dropper is an ASF-carrier. And it also means that since the York-class can carry 5 Stars of ASFs internally, only has 5 Stars allocated to it, and STILL has an ASF-carrier DropShip, it means that it's carrying less ASFs than it is capable of. Ie, it was *intentionally* under-loaded, probably for "balance" purposes.
Which should tell you how poorly the impact of ASFs under the squadron rules (at that time, since the rules have been revised) were understood.
>>47762309
So do assault dropships fill the role of PWS in this era or do they fight aerospace fighters?
>>47762273
>the Cats had a 2-to-1 advantage in ASF numbers
You mean almost 3:1, with a almost 5:1 advantage in heavies?
>>47762487
A little column A, a little column B.
Assault ships aren't really *good* at either. Warships swat them out of the sky (usually before they get into range), and ASFs automatically win init against them an after the initial merge, can stern-convert on them and blow them out of the sky.
A good assault ship can still do damage on the one pass they get, especially against ASFs not using squadron linkup rules. But that's about it. Under the rules in play at that time, anyway - nowadays there's a little more (ECM screening) that even obsolete assault ships can do.
>>47762163
Is that man using a parachute in outer space?
>>47762621
He was pretty clearly referencing >>47762132, mate.
>>47757978
>>47760779best meme
>>47762898
Since when is truth a meme?
>>47762969
your cute little "joke" isn't funny. dark age is ten times better than anything FASA ever put out.
>>47762969
since ever? I don't think you know a meme is
>>47762999
>know a meme is
*know what a meme is
>>47762994
