>spend half your starting gold on a wagon and mule
>GM destroys in in first session
Why?
>>47739842
Because you fuckwits weren't moving the plot forward, so conflict found you.
>>47739842
Because he is a shitty GM and can't adapt plot accordingly.
>>47739842
Been in the same position, we all started with family herlooms. I got a horse and a cart +full plate armor while the other got some kind of magical things like a weapon, potions or scrolls. We where 2 fighters in the party (AD&D 1e) where i got normal but expensive armor while the other got +2 Great-sword, (we played dragon lance so a full plate armor was as rare as a +2 sword and tha other fighter only had chainmail).
5 Sessions in a troll had eaten my horse, my cart had to been stolen and my plate armor had been damaged/destroyed because of a crit.
Yeesh, starting gold of 32 and your party made you buy the mule?
>>47739842
Because nothing pisses off PCs like threats to their items.
>>47739842
I know how you feel Op
>Playing wealthy lords son
>enjoy cushion lifestyle full of lavish decadence
>seen as a failure as I just play lute and hang out in whorehouse
>addicted to opium also a womanizing alcoholic
>Take starting wealth 3 for 10k gold
>Buy nothing but masterwork or better gear even wagon is extravagant
>After spending 6k on stupid things and servants character is effectively cut off from daddy's pocketbook in backstory
>Plan on spending the remaining money on sex drugs and rocken roll!
>Mfw first time my character leave my wagon I come back to it gone and my guards dead
>Mfw I had 3 elite warriors guarding it but they somehow died to local bandits without killing a single one
>Mfw GM says there is zero chance I'm getting anything back as bandits are hard to track through there Forest
I continued with the character tho I had to change him from being a laid back party bard to a penny pinching greed machine.
Later on found out my shit got stole by an ex ninja clan who set up in a forest that was miles away but they rob the wealthy to give to the poor blah blah blah
>>47739842
>GM presents you with an interesting plot that revolves around a threat to the kingdom
>"lmao who cares, it doesn't concern me"
>he present with an active threat, hurting your character and your equipment
>"OH NOW IT'S PERSONAL BABY, BRING IT ON FAGGOT"
Why?
>gm makes you roll sense motive to know your boyfriend isn't angry at you anymore
>>47739970
I think you just answered your own question.
>>47739842
Because, if you're not moving on foot, you'll be able to catch up with the plot-important villain's contrived getaway plan. Now stop wanting nice things and get some blisters on your feet, asshole!
>>47739842
Had a GM do this to me once. I kill the local ruler, stole his shit, rolled to ans convinced the local necromancer to help me destroy everything and had three party members die (not by my hand but by a dragon). Everything that we were suppose to kill I made my ally. I was a very convincing bard at first but then someone broke my flute so I decided to become a dark lord instead.
>>47739970
Shit thing is GM destroys wagon and other important items for purpose of moving plot forward. At the end of arc you get your items back while everyone else gets new things.
So basically everyone took a step forward while you where forced to take one back before you could step forward.
That's fine if I'm ahead due to power imbalance or other characters building "poorly" but otherwise why would you make me fall behind the other members?
We bought several horses at the start of the game, heading towards our first dungeon, stop for the night and wake up to find our horses stolen.
Nothing else, just the horses.
The fucking expensive horses.
We started looking for clues and the Dm tells us that there are none.
Ranger and rogue both roll really high in their search and DM tells us they find lots of light foot prints and horseshoe marks suggesting they were at full gallop.
Fuck tomb-raiding, we getting our horses back.
Spend rest of session and most of the next searching for them with the DM every so often telling us that 'they would be a continent away by now, you won't find them' and generally trying really hard to make us go explore the first dungeon.
At the end of the second session, he angrily throws he's notes onto the table with a cry of 'Fuck it!'
'You obviously don't give a shit about the adventure, or saving the world from the God of Death so fuck this.'
And that's how our group lost a DM.
A bad GM breaks your shit.
A good GM breaks your shit and then dangles nicer shit in front of you to inspire you.
>>47739842
Is that you, Richard?
>>47742375
I think the proper term for this instance is 'of nothing of value was lost'
If that's how he starts off the campaign, I can almost guarantee you that whatever he had in store was going to be utter shit either way
>Not starting the game with a wagon, two horses, and a pack mule for easier travel and loot storage
You guys seriously don't do this? More masterwork grandfather clocks for me, I guess.
>>47742375
So instead of just letting the horses got stolen by a bunch of goblins, which could have been killed and then moved back to the dungeon, he dragged this on for two sessions?
>>47742637
Old school players always have that shit. How else are you going to cart loot back from the dungeons.
>>47742375
Wow. What a shitty GM. He could have led you to the dungeon with the horses or turned your quest to get your horses back into you guys stumbling backwards into a continent wide conspiracy to steal an empire, or *something*. Also, saving the world on your first adventure? You gotta work your way up, dude. Save a town, save a region, save a kingdom, work your way up from there.
>>47742375
>And that's how our group lost a DM.
lost That GM*
>>47739842
I admit I did that as a DM once. Didn't mean ill, but throwing the party into slavery by the first session was, in retrospective, kind of a dick move considering how much time they spent picking up their gear.
I've been more careful since, either suggesting them that initial gear might not be something to get too attached to at first, or outright telling them "You'll start butt-naked, so don't worry about it yet" when the story is meant to have them lose everything at the start.
>>47739842
You should've bought a slightly lower quality one and doubled down on the insurance by offering them a rate only an adventurer could afford.
Then you'd be able to buy three more every time the GM kills one.
>>47742757
I was taken aback when a group I joined just assumed you could carry a wooden chest of 3,000 copper coins, a sack wioth 8,000 silver coins and a backpack with three sets of leather armor and eight shortswords -somehow- stuffed in there because it weighed less than your maximum stated equip load and there'd be no trouble.
I get that some people don't like simulationism but come on. At least have us stash it somewhere hidden, imply we go back and either carry it/have it carted back and just handwaive all the fun you could have had making us guard our loot all the way home.
>>47742725
Yep.
All the while being thoroughly unhelpful and trying to constantly drag us back to the rails.
>>47739842
>DM destroys my wagon and mule
You need to treat that mule like it's your baby. NEVER let it out of the party's sight, not for a second, not for anyone. As a general rule, trust no NPC to handle it outside of your stabbing range, even if the DM wants him to seem trustworthy. Take it into the dungeon. Yes, into the dungeon, where you can see it, where you can heal it if it's hurt, and where the DM has a harder time handwaving it dead. Take turns sleeping in the wagon if you want it to still be there in the morning. Get extra wheels and be ready to fix it.
All the paranoia will pay off because it is justified. If you do not watch your wagon like a fucking hawk watching her eggs, the DM will screw you out of it. If you are vigilant, your encumbrance will be vastly increased, enabling you to take much more shit home with you. Capacity equals loot equals cash.
When you get your wagon, get its exact dimensions in writing (volume and carrying weight) because a DM may try to screw you over with that later (i.e "nooo you can't keep four people and their loot in a 10x10ft space...", "no you can't rest in a moving wagon", etc etc). Do not tell your DM that you're worried about him screwing you however.
>>47742375
An clever DM would have done this:
>lots of light foot prints and horseshoe marks suggesting they were at full gallop.
>strangely, they appear to be following the route you're taking to the dungeon
Bam. Now you're all angry and dead-set on fucking up the antagonist for stealing your horses. AND you're going in the direction he wanted you to go. It can be an overused motivation, but it works the first few times
Then,
>[doing your thing in a dungeon]
>hear some minion telling his buddies about how he nicked like five horses from some stupid travelers who weren't even taking watch
>one of them calls the minion a dumbass because of how well-armed the travelers were
>you find the minions who stole the horses
>you find the horses stabled deep in the dungeon
>Playing D&D
>Rolling for stats
>My dump stat is something stupid low, but the rest of my stats are good.
>I don't even remember what my class was just that I dumped str and was required to be lightly encumbered for some stupid ability.
>Realize I can barely carry my weapon and clothing without going over that shit.
>Want survival gear like a bedroll and shit
>Can't carry it
>Buy mule
>Buy food for the mule
>Put ranks in handle animal to control it
>All the other PCs think its cool
>DM gets REALLY butthurt about it.
>Game ends before the DM ever does anything to it, but I could tell he just hated I had it
Why DO DMs hate PCs having pack animals so much?
>>47739842
Sorry dude but the adventure module told me to make y'all poor.
>>47739934
>Because he is a shitty GM and can't adapt plot accordingly.
This.
>>47739872
>Because you fuckwits weren't fulfilling my carefully constructed self insert fantasy, so I fucked you.
>>47743837
I don't know. I usually DM but I noticed the trend. I myself don't do that, hell, I love limiting players' ability to teleport or use massive bags of holdings so that they resort to using wagons and mules. And when they get overly paranoid about protecting them, I always tell them I have an unwritten rule of not killing/destroying pack animals and carriages unless the players fuck up super-bad. I mean, unless you have some grand plan that requires slaughtering them, killing them doesn't contribute to the game at all. You weren't paranoid enough, boo hoo, you lose your shit, -10 horse points. Super fun.
So, how do you guys handle your pack animals while dungeoneering? Obviously you can only take them so far.
>Do leave them tied up outside?
>Buy a mule AND hire an NPC to guard it?
>Hirelings AS mules...three or four for good measure. Give them backpacks and spears and call it a day.
I once destroyed a paladin's weapon in her first session because of confirming a crit fail with another crit fail.
>>47744657
>1/400 chance to lose your weapon every time you use it.
Nice one. Assuming this is 3.5/PF and her weapon didn't have the fragile quality (because who the hell would do that) you could have at least just left it broken instead of destroyed.
>>47744609
As a Player and DM I consider mounts, pets and pack animals all fair game, as long as they're treated fairly/properly.
When DMing, I'll roll once each day for wandering monsters vs unattended mounts, such as those left tied up in front of some ruins while the party heads off inside. If the party heads back out within the same day, they arrive just when the encounter takes place.
It also makes for interesting random encounters, as a spooked mount/pack animal has to be wrangled in addition to dealing with whatever spooked it.
>Travelling through woods at the onset of winter.
>Grizzly attacks, pack animal freaks and runs off...
>Party has to decided to: deal with bear and track PA later, split up with one going after PA and rest of party dropping the bear.
What I can't stand is when mounts die for no reason. Since horses tend to be pretty valuable, there's no reason "bandits" should ever kill your horse (unless they're deliberately trying to murder you). Hell, the animal probably makes up the bulk of what their stolen goods would he worth anyways.
>Spend all starting gold on a water clock
>DM doesn't destroy it or do anything untoward
>>47744894
It's also a good reason to get a hireling or two; to guard the horses.
And hirelings are really cool.
>>47744749
Yeah, I went a little hard with it. To be fair, it wasn't masterwork or the like, and she instead went hardcore mode and got creative with her shield, so I don't regret it, and it encouraged her to talk to the blacksmith in the room who reforged it into something better.
I still think about it sometimes, and wonder if it was too much.
As a DM, I've lost players over this. They were taking the cart through hostile bandit territory. The loud, over-encumbered cart piled high with every little bit of niche survival gear they could possibly need. When they go into the dungeon, they tried to camoflage the cart with broken branches and even hitched the mule somewhere else.
I had them roll hide checks to conceal it. I also had them roll multiple spot checks, wherein they failed to notice they were being watched the entire time.
They finish the first dungeon, cart and mule are gone. They track cart and mule to a second dungeon, kill everything, reclaim their stuff. Go to a third dungeon, it's gone again when they're done--this time the mule is dead.
Never understood that a cart that loaded made them look like merchants... and that regularly leaving it unattended was irresponsible. Instead they quit.
>>47744985
For what reason would you desire a water clock?
>>47745489
To measure time?
>>47745489
It seemed like a good idea at the time.
>>47745499
Everyone always gives this answer.
It is always the best answer.
>>47739842
It seems DMs in general hate it when players get pack animals or get hirelings. They either kill them immediately or in the hireling's case, betray you at a moments notice. It's almost like the DM is insulted that the party doesn't go into said area as is and if you don't "How dare you fuck with my balance issues!"
>>47745471
Don't worry anon you did the right thing. It's far more important to be realistic in your game of pretend than it is to have players for the game.
I hate things like this. I have, however, done a similar thing once.
>Players buy mules from an ancient hermit elf, who sold them at a discount because they dueled him and managed to creatively get one punch in
>Arrive to a city
>Conflict from a few sessions back catches up
>A rep of a local mafia family offers to buy a mcguffin from the group for a hefty price
>Warns them that refusing would be unwise
>They refuse
>Next day find their mules' heads in their beds
To my players' honour, first thing they did when the guy reappeared to try and renegotiate was to stab him, torture him and leave him in a gutter to bleed out
>>47739842
>low fantasy game
>start with pants, cudgel and a slingshot
>first session we must get on a ship
>wont leave anytime soon
>realize I forgot to collect some rocks
>>47739842
>Get fancy new mount because I'm a fuckin knight and ally of justice.
>GM shoehorns the game into a labyrinth of 5ft corridors and crawlspaces.
>Me and my riding dog don't give a fuck.
Shit like this is why I always play small characters.
>>47745561
Borrow a net and trawl the shore before you head into deep water?
>>47745561
Depending on the techonology level, you might be able to re purpose cannonballs. Early cannonballs were made of stone.
>>47745545
To your credit, the problem with OP's DM was that they accidentally diverted the player's attention from the dungeon they planned for(and then got pissy when they couldn't deal with it). Whereas in your case, you brought their attention to what you were intending them to fight/kill.
Also, stealing player's shit is worse, since not only does the player not have that thing anymore, but now some smug dickbag is enjoying that thing the player doesn't have anymore. And smug dickbags need a good anal eviscerating.
>>47740007
>why would you make me fall behind the other members?
A) Life isn't fair.
B) You needed a push, so you fucking got one.
C) You're a douche IRL.
D) All of the above.
I don't get this. Why would you start your plot immediately? Shouldn't you have a few sessions to establish the setting, the characters, and prepare the ground for some personal fucking stakes other than hurr destroy the world?
And holy fuck, would you look at that, you've had enough time to adapt it to whatever they've come up with and you can use their stuff in interesting ways instead of just stealing it.
>>47740007
You chose to fall behind yourself when you decided to dick around with wagons instead of progressing.
>>47739842
>Party is set up as a merchant group for !notengland
>Be a mercenary musketeer with only a matchlock sword and armor to my name
>End up being a distraction for a full on naval invasion
>Betrayed by our king we go to warn the allies of the people we unknowingly distracted
>try to warn party to not get involved and take the boat away to make a fortune elsewhere
>Party majority decides to keep being to be the big damn heroes
>grab party medic who was my bro and convince him to grab some npc sailors and steal the boat
>gm is cool with the plan so long as we roll new characters and occasionally return to them as a side story
>next session gm does a 180 and has the ship blown up right before our eyes
Stories like this are why I think every DM should run at least one campaign that's all about hirelings and equipment. I like to do those on villain campaigns. Building dungeons and all that.
>>47746777
You fuckers. He crafted an adventure of conquest and betrayal and you wanted to fuck off in a stolen boat.
Closest I've had this to happening is when my group ran an intrigue game. DM started us off as a noble house in a minor port city, one player being the head of a nearby town that was our allies.
End of the session, I'm a pirate with the other player who owned the navy as we take the remnants out to see. Our spymaster and captain of the guard have fled into the woods to become bandits. The knight player is dead, along with most of the NPC nobles.
This all followed the player from the smaller town being railroaded into teaming up with some random cannibal barbarians from the north and taking over our city because we invested most of our forces into a Navy, and all our land-forces were given a hand-waved loss because the were ambushed by the sudden and out of nowhere betrayal.
So the intrigue kind of died after the party was forcibly split, with the game following shortly after.
>>47747044
I was more mad about the lost trade goods and equipment but the gm was a bro and made up for it later. A few members ended up dying while in charge of a tercio square https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=625iTKITRoA
>>47739842
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev7RDGnXkkE
Sounds like the start of a good campaign
>>47742757
Course, old school players probably wouldn't start a thread bitching when said possessions then came up in the adventure.
>>47739842
Have you asked your GM that question.
That's really important. Pic related.
>Not spending all your starting gold on hunting dogs.
>Any threat is now buried is ferocious doggos.
>Literally enough HP and dmg to kill anything until level 5.
Carts are old hat.
>>47745543
>pander to idiots, it's important to be popular
I'd rather have no game than a shit game.
>>47748222
>not wanting to be popular
Nerd.
>>47744985
What are you doing with a water clock?
>>47748299
Can't speak for him, but I use them as IED timers.
>>47748120
>Literally enough HP and dmg to kill anything until level 5.
Sure, if your DM is so slack-jawed that he doesn't adjust CR-based encounters to compensate.
>>47748299
Maybe it's a way of going hard-mode, like starting with nothing but grandfather clocks in oregon trail.
>>47748527
>DM adjusts CR-based encounters to compensate
Why bother doing anything to improve your chances then?
>>47742480
A bad GM breaks your shit just cause.
A good GM lets you know why your shit got broke, thus inventing a goal for your character to thrive for.
To beat the shit out of those assholes and the shitty bastard who sent them.
(Of course, this only works farther into the game, after the player has grown attached to said shit)
>>47739970
>Interesting plot
>Nobody cares about it
Choose one. If your plot was actually as good as you think you wouldn't have needed to railroad the players.
>>47743073
/thread/
>>47742725
I honestly find the idea of a group of PCs going through hell and high water for something petty both a funny and interesting idea for an entire campaign.
>Find the local bandit camp and fuck them up, torturing the captives for where the horses are
>They were sold to a wealthy prince ruling a small but wealthy city state
>Start a civil war to overthrow the prince
>He fled on one of your horses as the city fell to the rebels
>Track him down to a major empire ruled by his second cousin twice removed
>Unite a bunch of Orc tribes to invade the empire and destroy it
>Fight your way through the capital city as it is being invaded by Orcs and the local militia is desperately fighting for survival
>Finally find your last horse
>It has been 25 years since it was stolen
>Your horse dies three weeks later from old age
>>47742375
>Playing a game
>GM is pretty cool, have a fun time though seems
a bit unmoving when it comes to the rules
>Escape dungeon and get attacked by harpies
>Kill all of them, decide to go look around for the nest for loot
>"Alright, roll to check the area."
>Roll, get alright
>"Nothing here, roll for the next area"
>"I thought we didnt find anything?"
>"Not in that area, roll for the next"
>We were using a gridded map
>Suggested the party of 4 (and npc) take the time to go to and roll for each square
>We suggested we just each make a roll to search once, since if we miss the search check in the right area, we'll just be looking around like assholes the rest of the game
>GM gets pissed out "Fuck it"s and leaves
Ended up playing again after, but (our own fault on this one) lost track of the party gold after everyone got confused with who was spending what and he went "Fuck it" again and quite the game for good.
>>47749513
On a side note, there is a shit ton of math in basic D&D later on.
>Got 15324 gold in one dungeon
>Party pools gold together
>Jesus christ this is in the hundreds of thousands
>Multiple carts, lucky enough to carry it into next town without getting attacked (much)
>Sell magical weapons we cant use
>Jesus christ its so fucking high, writing down pages of just numbers of gold pieces
Good thing the economys really fucked up
>We need to buy a boat
>Costs all the gold we own
How do the peasants fucking afford to live in these big towns with fishing boats?
How can I afford to spend the rest of my live renting a room in a castle and bathing in whores and yet cant afford to buy a shitty boat or god forbid any animal but a horse or mule?
We could live like kings the rest of our lives or buy a boat for a single use down a river when none of us know how to pilot one.
>>47749672
>Not hiring an entire army of mercenaries
>Not drowning the BBEG in corpses
>Not having a bunch of hirelings swim around with you and your shit on their backs
>>47739842
>warhammer rpg
>Me and friend charge in ahead and get thrown to 0 wounds
>we were a barber surgeon and a student
>wait at wagon
>test of parte kill a necromancer in a tower
>after the battle, he switches to us
>the necromancer aprentice shows up with three zombies and a flintlock pistol
>we let him take the horse since were both 0 wounds
It was all good because we were close to a town but the horse was worth quite a good amount of karls
>>47746610
>>47746507
>waaaaaaaaah why are you trying to exert free will when I already made these rails
If the players don't care for your ebin plot of maximum intrigue and adventure that means it's not as good as you think or you simply failed to consider the basic humanity of your group while formulating every tiny detail of your campaign
>>47746610
>Silly newfag adventurer only carries shit they can fit in a backpack.
Do you even adventure?
>>47746507
Great way to punish the forward thinking player, dumbass. When the 'push' fucks the fellow who is thinking of the logical contingencies of life as an adventurer, you're a shit. And if your plans consistantly fuck the guy who's more in character than basically anyone else, guess what? You're burning a dude because he's not being a chucklefuck.
>>47749853
>waaaaah
Bitch you're the one crying about your wagon getting destroyed, then crying again when your prize is a restored wagon instead of more loot.
>>47749981
>everyone I disagree with is the same person
>only my star-chosen nemesis could possibly try to cloud the clarity of my arguments with his lies
>>47739842
Sometimes when you try to cross railroad tracks, you get hit by the train.
>>47750005
>implying he wasn't the one to make retarded accusations first
>"hur dur you can't just assume people are X"
Fucking moron.
>>47750113
I was directly responding to the posts I quoted in the first of my only 2 posts in the thread, 3 counting this one. So yes, you're the only one to make any retarded accusations
>>47747214
Is that Viggo Mortensen?
>>47739941
high ac characters are harder to deal with than high damage ones.
>>47749432
>If your plot was actually as good as you think you wouldn't have needed to railroad the players.
Usually I run things more by the seat of my pants, but the one time I tried to have a fully-structured investigative game it all went according to the "maybe, just maybe, they'll do *this*" plan aside from going into an optional encounter that would have gotten them a nice reward.
They even fell for the plot twists hook, line, and sinker!
Probably the most satisfying go at DMing I've ever had.
>>47742833
So, you basically run Elder Scrolls games?
>players keep ending up in jail with all their equipment gone
>Get stuff explained to them as they loot gear through the 'tutorial' session.
>none of it they can actually make use of.
>>47739842
Because...Your cart and mule were lame. My PCs ride in fucking style. Always.
>>47751461
Try cornering in that wagon, you top-heavy fools!
>>47751611
Enchantments, motherfucker, do you know them? Also, weighting down the bottom compared to the top.
Or I could give them a cool ship like what you posted, or an airship.
That's right, my magical realm is bitchin' rides. Dare you enter and take the wheel?
>>47749853
>muh free will
Then stop bitching about your GM not creating a socialist paradise where everyone is 100% equal at all times.
>Well Jim lost his donkey so you all need to lose something of equal value as well, that's only fair.
>>47742480
I think a good GM would have made the player abandon the cart/mule out of their own volition because of things like: upkeep/maintenance cost, a disease or festering wound that prevents the mule from pulling it (if it gets hurt during an ambush for example), terrible road maintenance damaging the wagon or getting it stuck in mud so that it can't proceed unless you have time, skills and means to fix it, or simply telling the players the next dungeon/point of interest is way off the roadside on terrain the wagon can't traverse. So they'll need to think about trying their luck anyway, trying to hide it, or splitting the party so someone can guard it.
And if the players can overcome all those hardships, damn they've earned their cart, let them have it and be proud of their accomplishments.
>>47743073
Damn dude, you're fucking awesome!
>>47751757
>damn they've earned their cart
Why do they have to 'earn' the cart if they bought it with their starting money? Why can't the player just have a thing?
>>47751656
Where did socialism even fucking come up? Keep it on your pants
>>47739842
>Team up with another character and each pick traits that let you start out with more starting gold
>Spend almost the entire amount on a wagon and two horses, along with a list of traveling gear, trade goods, and supplies
>Everyone uses the cart, sleeps in or under the cart, stores things in the cart
>During play, another player decides to take Engineering and upgrade the cart, giving it a sturdier frame and making it able to move through hexes it normally wouldn't be able to
>Group buys a variety of tabards to disguise the cart, or use the cart to disguise ourselves (we once painted it up as a traveling entertainer's wagon to avoid suspicion)
>The cart almost becomes a character by itself
10/10 would buy again.
>>47751840
Shit that sounds fun.
>>47746610
>Wagons slow you down
Says the guy who needs to stop constantly to get more food and water and to sell their loot. With a wagon you can load up enough food and water for weeks and over time you can have more and more room for loot. Plus a wagon lets you move faster as you can have people sleeping in the back while one person guides the horse and horses don't need long sleeping patterns like people.
tl;dr get a wagon and stop slowing everyone down with your setting up camp and buying shit.
>>47749494
But dude.
Those are some damn goodcamelshorses.
>>47739959
Sounds like your gm is shit
>>47739842
Speaking as someone who had the team cart used to bludgeon him by a Hill Giantwith horses still attached....I cant really say i feel all that sorry for you.
>>47745489
>>47748299
I'm a little confused why you're asking what someone would need an instrument used to tell the time for.
I mean, it's not like there are many purposes that one would use a time-telling device for other then telling the time.
So with this in mind, I'll guess it's to tell the time.
>>47746507
>A) Life isn't fair.
We know, that's why we're playing a pretend game about dragons.
>>47739842
I did this to my players, but it was only a cheap ornery old mule. I plan for it to be returned to them, as they're strangely attached. It wasn't carrying anything of value and in the search for this mule they've already made back its value by far.
>>47753725
Should point out it was stolen, not destroyed, I don't plan to have a mule ressurected but at this point I think they would actually go to hell and back for this thing, so who knows.
This thread is full of shit DMs who run terrible campaigns.
>>47753737
For Pony?!
>>47753740
Welcome to /tg/, you must be new here.
>>47744157
> gm has a plot - players don't follow it because "railroading"
> players decide to sandbox; doing random stuff but GM still obliges them. They can do anything but it doesn't amount to something it serves no purpose so they get bored of it pretty fast.
>Damn it GM, this game is boring. there is nothing interesting to do. Isn't there a plot or something?
... every fucking time.
After a few years of letting the players do what they want and that not amounting to anything I'm only railroading them. Every road they take leads to same destination. You can bitch and moan about me being a shitty GM but at least something is happening and there is progress in campaign.
>>47753858
Gotta love that false dichotomy. You know you can do a plot without having to railroad your players, right? Oh, you didn't? Well then I feel sorry for them.
>>47739842
I wouldn't do this, as a GM. I feel like this is a dick move: I like being fair -and only a little bit lenient- with my players. I like to see their characters succeed in what they want to do, I like to see them become stronger, mightier, acquire fame and women (or men in some cases).
I haven't grown tired of seeing the advancement of Player's goals throughout the game, how they get more and more ambitious and develop bigger and bigger plans. It's probably because I see the success of some of the world's most famous people and get this craving to do so in a fantastical work, where things can be even bigger and better than reality.
It's my own taste in games, that I like noble-types of games better than grim-types but don't get me wrong: not everything goes according to plan for the players. Sometimes they fail and fall: and you know what they say about big guys falling4u
The bigger they are, the harder they fall: and because fails happen less than successes and wins, they are all the more effective at creating good opportunities for character growth in-game! But even after that, the PCs can fix their mistakes and continue with the game.
This, of course, I try to achieve whilst staying fair and just in my rulings, trying to go with the rule of cool and with what would make sense in my setting.
>>47749151
>Why bother doing anything to improve your chances then?
Ultimately you can't, since all the challenges are set by the GM and you win only because he lets you.
>>47753858
The answer is to have a brightly lit theme park railroad that they know they are getting on.
>>47750005
This must be the work of an Enemy Stand!
>>47751786
Buying is only half he battle. Keeping it away from others who don't wanna buy their own is the other half.
>>47751757
>What a good GM does whenever party buys some swords and armor is throw them some rustmonsters. If they manage to get through the encounter with it intact, only then they have earned it
>>47753440
Your DM is either an asshole or a genius.
>>47751757
>And if the players can overcome all those hardships, damn they've earned their cart, let them have it and be proud of their accomplishments.
Nobody is going to feel proud about it because they don't share your fascination with medieval carts. It's just a fucking cart, you dumb faggot. Are you even a human being?
>>47754725
>Are you even a human being?
...Yes. I am. I am perfectly human and in no way a shitposting robot designed to destroy 4chan from within via constant memery and derailing of discussion. What strange ideas you have, ha ha ha ha ha. You are a big guy.
>>47739934
Ding ding ding
>>47742375
>not making the thieves take the horses to the first dungeon, or a copy/paste of the first dungeon with a few details tweaked.
What a faggot. It's like he doesn't know the invisible railroad of Adam Smith
>>47739842
>Okay guys, did everyone prepare their characters?
>Yep!
>This session is just a starter session to establish characters and form the party, we'll move on to the heart of the undersea kingdom and political intrigue next session.
>I'm outside the tavern with my mule and wagon.
>Um... What?
>I spent half my strating gold on a mule and wagon!
>For our underwater political intrigue game?
>It'll be awesome!
>We'll see. Let's just play.
>>47754928
The wagon is two boats glued together and the mule is a manatee. Done.
>>47745030
As a DM, I love hirelings. They're perfect for loot carrying, delivering messages or doing other mundane tasks when otherwise you'd have to split the party or faff about, etc.
Just frees up the players to do more of the adventure parts. I don't get the need for constant hirelingcide. Very rare kidnappings can be fun, though. Just don't be excessive with it.
>>47755002
One of my players has an attendent who he basically pays to have to do any mundane boring thing he doesnt want to.
But has become rather attached and protective to "Young James", mostly as a result of me repeatedly using him as a quest hook. Like them returning to the tavern and finding him in the middle of a bar fight about to get stomped on, getting punched out by a tribal chieftan and dragged away to marry his daughter or having assasins kidnap him as bait.
In my mind killing off hirelings and pets is a waste unless specifically to fuel a dramatic moment in the story and then I usually give my players to intervene.
>>47754928
Well, however the party's going to breathe and move, he can probably make the mule do that too.
Also,
>political intrigue
>>47739959
>allowing characters with tons of starting gold
>not being able to adjust the plot around it
>taking their wealth away because "muh balancing"
your DM is either painfully short-sighted or you are making shit up
I never allow this kind of advantage , if the player wants more starting gold , he better roll for it (which could also let him end up as a homeless poor guy)
>>47739842
As GM I break their stuff constantly, because their profession is (usually) breaking shit and killing things, and that works both ways. I mean, if they fall off a cliff, get immersed in acid goo, have a dragon flamethrower them, be impaled by a trap, and survive having spatial anomalies thrown at them by an angry wizard, then maybe it makes sense if some of their stuff doesn't survive it.
On the other hand, they're the only ones crazy enough to engage the anomaly wizard in the first place, so they get a steady inflow of fun toys.
>>47754928
>Start of Session 2
>Undersea Political Intrigue™ completely abandoned after party met in a tavern.
>Bard got his teeth kicked in for trying to fuck anything with legs.
>CN Shitbag tried to steal from the Innkeeper's lockbox, was caught, then went on a stabbing spree before the locals dog-piled him and turned him and his "friends" over to the night watch.
>Paladin (only one not thrown in jail) attempted to negotiate the release of the party, but was too late and now the party (having broken out of jail) is in a high speed chase with their rickety cart and ornery mule, trying to evade the Sheriff's men.
>CN Shitbag is at 0 hp and bleeding to death in the back of the cart.
>Paladin refuses to dump the "dead weight" because he's Lawful Stupid.
Fucking carts.
>>47755668
You disappoint me anon.
>>47745471
That isn't being That GM. If you're giving them opportunities to defend and only taking advantage of their own bad decisions instead of just forcing the situation (and it sounds like you even gave a second chance), then it's their fault.
>>47755002
Am I the only player with a hireling they don't use as a pack mule?
>get Deep One hireling during adventures in Arkham/Innsmouth in 3.5e (statted as a Kuo-Toa)
>got it by threatening it for noncompliance or rewarding for compliance in finding captured companion, it thought we were more fun and stuck around
>use it as a rogue, have him run specific stat checks (plus he's got epic cooking skills)
>only carrying two weapons (one of his own and one I gave him after I made him my squire) and a pair of moccasins to improve his move silently checks
>>47755668
I'm not sure if this is sarcastic or not. What did the cart do?
>>47739842
OP here. It wasn't an undersea political intrigue game. It was a pathfinder game, I was a sorc who dumped str, and I had all the supplies to fix the cart if it broke down and the feed for my mule, I even put points into craft: engineering to fix it myself and profession to drive, and my cha let me handle-animal well enough. My spells helped with my driving. I was making a spell-slinging The Driver due to autism.
Then the DM killed my cart via collapsing bridge ("shoulda done an engineering check to see if the bridge would hold a horse and cart, hurr hurr"). I got a stage-coach and war horse soon after.
>>47753858
The solution is to run a game the players like.
>So this is gonna be scifi horror and political intrigue
>Can we do something that involves more direct violence? We honestly want to just blow shit up with scifi guns and laser swords
>Sure
Instead you are proposing something like this
>So this is gonna be scifi horror and political intrigue
>Can we do something that involves more direct violence? We honestly want to just blow shit up with scifi guns and laser swords
>Oh sure I guess I can throw out my careful plot so you guys can just wander around murdering things
If you can't possibly think of a plot to make your players happy you are an idiot
Anytime a DM destroys your shit just because is awful. Then they wonder why characters are starting as homeless wandering adventuring orphans for their games.
>>47757553
...or you need a different set of players, one that has fun the same way you do.
But, y'know, your version is right too.
>>47757476
> i do a knowledge check to see if there is air
> i do a perception check to see if the road is real
> i do a perception check to see if the trees are real
> i do a engineering check to see if the road will hold the party
> i take one step
> repeat this proceedure until at destination
>>47757699
> i do a perception check to see if the road is real
But how can the road be real if I fail my perception check?
>>47758110
You don't, you fall through the world, everyone dies
>>47758139
T-That's a lot of pressure anon...
>>47758110
The bigger question is How Can The Road Be Real If Our Eyes Aren't Real?
>>47758235
>roll perception
>>47757692
That was a given. If neither side can agree on what you like go your different ways. Insisting on something that the players don't want and then saying "well I guess this is just gonna be a bunch of random murdering" makes you a jackass. If you really hate what the players want to run just say "I honestly don't want to GM that kind of campaign, nothing against you, it just doesn't interest me. Here is a compromise I am willing to make so maybe we can all get enjoyment out of this campaign and if that isn't something you would enjoy than I suppose you will need to find another GM."
Granted all of this shit should have been solved in the planning stages anyway. If people bring up shit in the middle of an actual session they are being idiots. If the GM doesn't want carts he should have said during character creation "hey I don't want you to buy a cart because X" if the players wanted to play a more bellicose campaign they should have brought up their concerns before the first session instead of just murdering town guards that accosted them.
>>47758456
>If you have a concern or want to establish as set of rules, it's best to approach everyone involved like adults and come to an understanding; instead of being autistic shit eaters.
Pardon me, but where do you think you are?
>>47739842
>Be GM
>Players stop at a local inn to meet a shady character who might be interested in hiring them for a job.
>Inn has a terrible reputation, several people have been drugged and robbed.
>The players know this, because they all got a knowledge (local) check, and one of them got that information flat-out because of his roll.
>Players stow a lot of their gear in a storeroom.
>Because they don't want to be in gory armor when they meet this guy.
>They post no guards on their gear
>They don't trap any of it.
>They go as far as to lock the door when they know at least 2 other people in the inn have duplicate keys.
>Are surprised when some of their stuff gets nicked.
>>47744985
My nagger.
This is why I always start with some random cool shiat, like a finger box.
>>47739842
He has a huge treasure waiting up ahead and he wants the party to choose what to carry, not take it all. Better buy a second wagon and mule.
>>47739872
Well, we're not buying a second wagon and mule, so if you destroy it, we're all out of money and you fucked the entire game, so how's it gonna be?
>>47739842
>Why?
If it was my game, because the destruction of your wagon was the logical consequence of the things that were happening. Maybe don't cover from the fire-mage behind it.
>>47742893
This is why I devote all the resources I can as quickly as possible into a Bag of Holding.
So I CAN do all that crap.
>>47758856
Well don't be shocked when that district of the city is burnt by their hands you cock mongler
>>47745489
>For what reason would you desire a water clock?
It's a massively expensive item that's available in 2E PHB. I don't think I've ever NOT commissioned one when I could afford it - what else would I spend my money on, in an edition that didn't have magic item prices in the book? It got to be a stupid running joke, with all the gold spent on ridiculously ostentatious things like orreries, statues, water clocks, extravagant gazebos etc. etc.
I think the INTENDED purpose of the water clock was probably time-telling for magic rituals that needed you to chant for exactly ten minutes and stuff like that, but the ACTUAL purpose was to show off my bling.
>>47759212
They ragequit over it, even though I tried to imply that the proprietor eithr stole their stuff or knew who did.
It was very
>HOW COULD YOU STELA OUR GEAR! BAD GM! BAD!
>>47745543
>Don't worry anon you did the right thing. It's far more important to be realistic in your game of pretend than it is to have players for the game.
Fucking
>implying
that I don't have them lining up for blocks to play in my game.
You might have players in your area that prefer an intricate story. That is not the way players are in my area. They want a brutal slog so that, when they get through, they know they've accomplished something. Dark Souls instead of Elder Scrolls - it's a different genre, but some people like it.
>>47759261
>the entire party quit
Anon I have some bad news...
>>47759287
>they know they've accomplished something
Playing an autistic game of pretend? :^)
>>47759287
Anon even dark souls has an intricate story, that's a bad example.
>>47745561
Use pistol balls. Lead bullets.
>>47759290
No, it was great news. I ditched them and after a bit more searching got a party that was actually good.
>>47759404
Or desperate ones
>>47759140
>it's fine to destroy a party's equipment because of consequences of stuff I made up
Don't put a fire mage in the game, genius.
>>47757699
I know you're joking, but this was actually a real thing for the longest time - bridge quality was shit back then.
Mind you, I'd probably not have GMed that way anyway because I'm not a shitbot, but "unexamined bridge couldn't take the weight" is legit.
(The way I would have played it would simply have been to state ahead of time that the bridge they came to didn't look stable, then dock them two or three days rations extra as they reinforce the bridge before moving on. In a situation where resources aren't critical, I wouldn't even do that because why spend time on something that isn't game-relevant?)
>>47759419
Nah, ones that understand that their actions have consequences, and actually pay attention.
>>47759322
>Anon even dark souls has an intricate story, that's a bad example.
An intricate story that cares about the wagon you bought at char gen? Fuck that. If DS allowed you to buy a wagon, it would be on fire by the time you hit the first boss.
>>47759451
>>it's fine to destroy a party's equipment because of consequences of stuff I made up
>Don't put a fire mage in the game, genius.
2 things.
1:
Fireballs are kind of
>implied
when you're playing D&D.
2:
>it's fine to destroy a party's equipment because of consequences of stuff I made up
Yes, it absolutely is. Some of the best gaming I've ever been in has been driven by the hunt for an asshole who took my first spellbook. Some of the best gaming I've been the DM for has been driven by the party's lust for revenge.
>>47739842
>everyone saying this is bad gming
>no one even thinks of asking what happened
>>47758606
>Pardon me, but where do you think you are?
I'll be honest I thought I was in /pol/, the retardation was so off the charts and I jumped into the middle of the thread without reading the OP or anything else.
>>47759616
Well if GMs aren't fully explaining themselves how the fuck can we know?
>>47759504
That was almost as bad as a /v/ food analogy
>>47759498
Anon if you were so rigid that you drove an entire group of people away that you yourself chose, there's some issues.
Not me but a friend (though I was in the same game)
>Literally first game of any tabletop
>3.5 because its never to early to learn bad habits
>Evil game because fuck we're on a roll here
>Friend asks DM if he can have a Minotaur zombie in exchange for most of his starting gold
>Not a normal request but certainly not an obscene one we didn't think
>DM approves it
>Literally the first time that player got any time (since we all started out not knowing eachother) he was attacked by a mysterious white robed figure of mystery who (completely outside of combat rounds) teleported in, created a hole beneath the Minotaur (no saving throw), filled the hole to the brim with holy water which instantly melted the Minotaur (no saving throw, no damage roll), then teleported away (again still outside of combat rounds)
>Player (who is not undead or anything just evil) tries to at least save the black onyx but he burns his hand on the holy water (For the record it doesn't do that to normal fucks)
>So start of game player begins with almost no gold and nothing to show for it
I mean you can say didn't happen and I would totally not fucking blame you, this shit is too god damned stupid to even strawman someone with.
The worst part was this was our first fucking game of anything, so nobody caught on that something was going wrong. We thought it was kind of douchey or dumb but chalked it up to "oh well this must just be how the game is played/run" This is how absolute shit players are made and we spent YEARS that way before we encountered a GM that was actually decent.
>Later that game a troll bit one of the arms off of the player playing a two weapon fighter
>Meanwhile my sorcerer made it through everything mostly unscathed because my strategy consisted almost entirely of levitating into the air and letting our DMPC do a lot of the work
>>47759676
>It's always the GM's fault.
Fuck off. I don't know about you, but I've DMed for a long time, across eight different groups now. You run into manchildren sometimes, and any little boo-boo sends them screaming.
I fucking told them, flat out, that this was a place where stuff gets stolen. Stuff got stolen, in large part because they didn't so something as breathtakingly simple as "Leave one of the guys who doesn't have good social skills behind to watch our crap" And it wasn't like I wasn't goign to give them an opportunity to get it back. I practically pointed the finger, by telling them that there was no sign of magic and the door had been neither forced nor picked, so it's likely whomever did this had a key.
If that's being too rigid, I'm too rigid. But I call it not bending over backwards for entitled shitheads.
>>47759756
There, you fucking fully explained your side of the story, good job, now start with that from now on.(you aren't in the wrong, by the way, I'm just tired of seeing people here half explain themselves and have shit start over it)
>>47739842
>Group wants me to DM a pre-build adventure. >Buys the book for me (20€).
>That guy ignores the plot, splits the party. He want to do some shitty sandbox out of it.
>lol i just wanna fuck with le gm. xD stupid railroad.
Someday I will kick him. Not out of the group but in his shitty face.
>>47759805
Ok, what part of that wasn't evident from my first post up here?>>47758856
Because I mentioned the terrible reputation. I mentioned that they knew about it. I mentioned that they didn't put a guard, I mentioned that they ragequit over it.
>>47739842
Probably because you failed to protect it.
>>47759504
No it's more like you're saying that Dark Souls just breaks your weapons right after you buy them because hey that's an advantage and you need it all to be a big slog the entire way through.
>>47759857
Mostly that they quit over it, and that they were actually retards, it adds a great deal to you looking better in the story. Oh that and them having a chance to retrieve their shit so they learn from their mistakes and it isn't hollow.
>>47759892
Oh, well, I guess.
Sorry for getting a bit steamed over it. I should have been clearer from the outset.
>>47759933
Nah it's fine, these threads do usually have some retards who defend the worst kind of GMing styles, and you can never be too sure sometimes. Not that it really matters, mind you, I mean look where we are, but oh well, just autistic about clarity, hue.
>>47759756
Fuck off, Dave. We all quit your game because a bunch of fucking urchins jacked our shit, and you told us we couldn't force them to give it back without a physical altercation, one that you said would cause our Paladin, who wasn't even present, to fall.
>>47760032
Nice try, but my name'sAdam. And it was the spellbook that caused the ultrabutthurt.
>>47760052
Oh. No joke, had a Dm who did that shit, though.
