Overshadowed by other editions edition.
If you are GMing, remember...
1. To strongly consider giving out at least one free "tax feat," like Expertise and pre-errata Melee Training.
2. To use Monster Manual 3/Monster Vault/Monster Vault: Nentir Vale/Dark Sun Creature Catalog math. Avoid or manually update anything with Monster Manual 1 or 2 math.
3. That skill challenges have always been scene-framing devices for the GM, that players should never be overtly told that they are in a skill challenge, and that the Rules Compendium has the most up-to-date skill DCs and skill challenge rules.
If you would like assistance with character optimization, remember to tell us what the what the rest of the players are playing, what books are allowed, your starting level, the highest level you expect to reach, what free feats you receive, if anything is banned, whether or not themes are allowed, your starting equipment, and how much you dislike item-dependent builds.
If you wish to talk about settings, 4e's settings are Points of Light (the planes and the natural world's past empires are heavily detailed in various sourcebooks and magazines), 4e Forgotten Realms, 4e Eberron, 4e Dark Sun, and whatever setting you would like to bring into 4e.
Nentir Vale locations: http://web.archive.org/web/20130520012550/http://community.wizards.com/nentir_vale/wiki/Nentir_Vale_Locations
Points of Light timeline (ignore everything else on this mostly-fanon wiki): http://nentirvale.wikidot.com/world
D&D 4e Compendium (for those who still have Insider subscriptions): http://www.wizards.com/dndinsider/compendium/database.aspx
PDFs for 4e books: Search thepiratebay for "Dungeonsand_Dragons_4th_Edition_books_update__1[Nov_2012]"
Thread starter questions: What books/extra sources would you reccomend for any given group? All of them?
Have you ever tried teaching/guiding 4e- for completely new to tabletop players, or people experienced in other editions/systems
Which, and how did it go?
> What books/extra sources would you reccomend for any given group? All of them?
Both DMGs, Monster Vault, Rule Compendium, offline character creator.
>>47492767
>offline character creator
I wasn't aware that existed.
Pretty nice, after just using it once just now.
I've got a bunch of people wanting to try 4e, will definitely have to pass the link to download that, would solve a lot.
I've just started a 4e campaign with some friends, only one of which has any experience with the edition and the others who avoided it after being told it was crap and did Pathfinder instead.
As a madman, I did at least two combats first session to throw people in the deep end learning the rules from the start. At the end of the session there was the expected "Combat was a bit slow" but I was pleasantly surprised when everyone also agreed that it was mostly on them for just not knowing what they were doing yet, and I got to point out that they were both faster and more confident the second encounter and as they learnt all their own options they wouldn't take 2 minutes each turn deciding what to do, they'd know what to do by the time their turn came around.
Has anyone else introduced people to 4e and found them pleasantly surprised? Even if my guys had their complaint, nearly every single one told me they enjoyed feeling a little more powerful, and how tactical the combats felt compared to other games.
Has anyone compiled a list of every piece of 4th edition content that is not outdated?
For example, all monsters in MM1 and MM2 use outdated math, but there are remakes of a bunch of them in PDF form.
The entirity of PHB 1 is outdated, but most of that is in the "Heroes of" essentials books
etc.
It would be pretty awesome if we could end up with a "definitive 4th edition, no assembly required" torrent or something.
>>47498995
Couple misconceptions there man.
First things first, the MM1 and MM2 math was a bit off, but it's a single change to damage. MM1-2 use the formula [8 + level * 7/15] and MM3 introduces [8 + level]. Monsters simply didn't do enough damage for their level, so DM's would overcompensate with higher level monsters, which led to inflated defences and health. The change only applies to single-target attacks, and the bulk of MM1 was updated in Monster Vault: Threats to the Nentir Vale
The entirety of PHB1 is not outdated. The essentials line does not replace any of the core content. Essentials classes are slightly trimmed down versions of the most famous classes, and are largely considered a little simpler for beginners but lacking in options and thus not scaling as well when you reach higher levels.
>>47499366
All of the rules data in PHB1 and almost every power card either has significant errata, or a complete rewrite, in the essentials "Heroes of" or "Rules Encyclopedia".
Nothing in PHB1 can be trusted, except possibly talk about role playing in general and other wishy washy text that doesn't pertain to any concrete numbers of rules whatsoever.
>>47499366
how the hell did the MM1&2 writers come up with that equation? 7/15? What's wrong with our old friend 1/2?
>>47499366
It's also worth mentioning that some monsters in MM1 and 2 have really shitty powers that can piss off players / lag combat, etc. For example, I remmeber coming across a fairly low-level dragon in MM1 that could do like a close burst 10 stun save ends or something disgusting.
However, this is general crappy design, not really MM1-problem related. But on the other hand, bad design is less common in later books due to the writers having more experience.
I'd advise beginnner DMs to stick to MM3 and Monster Vault. More experienced DMs should be able to spot dodgy powers and balance them on the fly.
>>47499366
>a single change to damage.
And the hit points of elites and solos.
And the defence values of Brutes.
And major fundamental changes to the design of minions, which were more or less a nonfactor in mm1.
I'm sure I'm forgetting something. TL;DR your post isn't worth the time it took my browser to load it.
>>47499366
>Essentials classes are slightly trimmed down versions of the most famous classes, and are largely considered a little simpler for beginners but lacking in options and thus not scaling as well when you reach higher levels.
Daily reminder to link to this summary for Essentials classes: >>47422558
>>47499962
Dracolichs and Purple Worms are pretty shitty. Solo monster design was bad early on, it's definitely one of the areas they improved the most on.
>>47491343
Can I have some help with optimization?
While looking for a paragon path for a thief, I found the Champion of the Vigil. I can't use it right now, don't have the stats and need to stay in melee to get bonus bmas from a friendly warlord, and even if I rebuilt from zero I'd still need to stay in melee range.
Is there any way to stay hidden while in melee, that doesn't take up your paragon path? Possibly for the whole round, so the bonuses would apply to the free attacks granted as well, but I don't think that's possible at all.
How badly do I fuck myself by being a half elf twin strike avenger paragon MC ranger?
Anyone have a link/download to the offline character generator? I heard that people had updates for it after they stopped officially supporting it all the way up to the end.
>>47502500
Not at all.
Twin Strike Avenger is godlike
So are we still perpetuating the lie that 4e is balanced or not?
>>47503527
Fuck you.
Compared to every other edition of D&D, it is.
Hey, found this
https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/8363862
Is it newer than the one suggested in OP?
>>47491343
Bump, 4e is not that bad.
>>47503919
the one suggested in the OP doesn't really have anything for players in it, and is about 1/5th the size of that one, without looking at the files for yours.I just copied old 4e threads, I really don't know why that's in the OP, it's shit
>>47499972
>>47499962
>>47499922
>About to start playing 4e because half the group wants to try it and we're basically entirely back to back combat sessions at this point anyway
>DM has an annoying tendency to buff the fuck out of monsters already tougher than the party
>Will 1000% be using MM1 or 2
How fucked am I?
>>47499651
>>47498995
I've also been cobbling together characters from the offline builder (mostly from the PHB1 races/classes) and the a PHB1 pdf by myself, just to see how it's done. Is that not ideal? would you as a DM not allow it?
