dead thread?

>>47479689
Dead game

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Mk3 confirmed dead on arrival.

Email to retailers.

Dear store owners, managers and staff,
As you have very likely learned, the June releases featuring the new editions of Warmachine and Hordes are now sold out at the manufacturer level. We received an overwhelming request for Launch Kits (PIP 21111, 21112, 21113) from our distributors, which we sold out of very quickly. In an attempt to meet the great demand for the new editions, we created two new Launch Kits (PIP 21114 and 21115) that were similar to the previous Launch Kits but contained less free items as those items were manufactured in limited supply. Even though we created almost twice as many new kits as our initial Launch Kit offerings, we again sold out of the new kits and had to allocate order quantities for each of our distributors in all territories. Despite our expectation that this production order would last us through the end of the year, adding the additional Launch Kits required most of our remaining product stock and as a result we are also sold out of each individual new edition item and all of our distributors received less product than they initially ordered. The only stock we have reserved is what we require for our upcoming Lock & Load Gamefest (where supplies will be limited) and our recruitment efforts over this summer’s conventions.

>>continued

>>47479903
>>cont.

We had no expectation that we could be sold out before launch and in fact believed we had ordered enough inventory to keep us supplied for several months. After all, our hopes are to grow the audience for WARMACHINE and HORDES with the new editions, and that requires that we have the product to introduce new players to the game. It’s thrilling that demand has exceeded our wildest expectations but we do know that supply shortages are a problem when you have customers who want the product, and we must apologize for this very unforeseen inconvenience. We are working hard with our vendors to expedite restock orders and are hoping to have card decks back in stock in July, books back in stock in August, and Battleboxes following as quickly as possible after that.
Launching a new product, even a new edition of one that has a successful history behind it, is always a nail biting experience for a publisher because of the unpredictable reception the product may receive. With three years of development and countless hours in new sculpting, artwork, design and writing, we have made a massive investment in the new editions of WARMACHINE and HORDES, and in the future of Privateer Press. If we have proven one thing so far, it is that the community and awaiting audience for these games is thriving and excited and demand is greater than ever. We humbly ask for your patience while we overcome our current product shortage and please know that nothing will make us happier than to get these new editions into the hands of everyone who wants them. We hope that based on the response to our announcements and the clear demand that exists, that you can be confident that WARMACHINE and HORDES will be a significant and profitable component of your business for many years to come.
We shall endeavor to meet your every need as quickly as we possibly can and we thank you for your support.

Sincerely,
Sherry Yeary
President
Privateer Press, Inc
[email protected]

>>47479903
>>47479923
welp

I wanted to start playing a wargame and I was leaning towards this but I guess I'll just play 40K or AoS instead.

>>47479903

Well, guess I'm buying it all at L&L

>>47479903
>>47479923
Launch kits bought en mass for resale for a profit on ebay and shit

>>47480011
It seems like the only people that will get Mk3 stuff are people that buy it at LnL.

Ironic that they're throwing small stores under the bus after the free-rider policy was supposedly to help small stores.

>>47479903
>>47479923
So what should have been the best time to get into the game is now the worst? Sounds like I wouldn't even be able to get anything until months after the release.

>>47480132

I can see them placing limits per store and that's why meeple is freaking out, the small stores will still get the 20 boxes they ordered but big online meeple will not be able to fulfill the hundreds of preorders they took

>>47480212
It seems like it, though it might be a false alarm.

After they had massive shortage issues with Mk2 release you think they would have learned.

>>47480226
Yeah, I've talked to several smaller stores and they've all got their Mk3 shit lined up, this sounds like it's only going to affect megastores.

What's the word on Devil's Shadow Mutineers in Mk3? They still gonna be worth it in Mercs?

>>47480259
How is that possible? PP can't control distribution, it's up to distributors.

>>47481030
They're sea dogs and will work for cryx.

I was thinking how most of the people in the Iron Kingdoms are dicks, and none of the factions are actually "good".
It made me think, who is the nicest and kindest person in the Iron kingdoms?

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>>47480011
Thats what I'm doing

>>47479903
>Dead on arrival
>Sold their entire stock out

Pick one retard

Anyone else tempted to make pairings in the remaining MK II tournaments with Casters they do not usually play, but probably will not use once MK III releases? I am gong to LnL, and my usual list pairing is Ossyan/eVyros. With the leaked cards, Ravyn is simply never hitting the table, which is of no consequence because I find her a massive bore on the table. However, this will be my last chance to snipe-feat-go with mt MHSF before MK III. Anyone else thinking of hampering their competitiveness in lieu of last shots with MK II jank?

>>47481522
Cyngar's king, Leto

He can't imagine someone would betray him because they worship the same(good) god, is upset about destroying a bridge because it's a hisotical relic, and makes a big deal out of holing up in one of his cities before a battle starts because the civilians might get affected by the fighting.

Most of Morrow's clergy are good aligned as well.

So what point values do we expect a journeyman league to work at? Since we have all the cards spoiled me and some mates wanted to do a mk 2.5 journeyman league

>>47481739
Week 1: 0
Week 2: 10
Week 3: 25
Week 4: 50
Week 5: 65
Week 6: 75

There's other unspecified changes. Each week allows certain new additions, with week 4 being battle engines being the only one specified.

So I don't have a ton of mercenary models. I've got a 35 point Shae theme list, and enough Rhulic stuff to have a battlegroup, a forge guard, and some solos. And I've got the various solos that were supporting my khador.

So looking at a mk3 mercenary list I can field, I have combined the two. A pirate band and a rhulic warcaster met somewhere in the middle of western immoren and decided to have a party.

Gorten Grundback +31
Gunner 6
Gunner 6
Blaster 6
Blaster 6
Driller 10

Dirty Meg 3
Nomad 11

Forge Guard 16

Press Gangers 12

Aiyana & Holt 8

Doc Killingsworth 4

First Mate Hawk 4

Ragman 4

Eiryss2 6

Saxon Orrik 4


Some substitutions I could make:

Replacing one of the solos with Sylys to help Gorten with his upkeeps (I don't think I have enough pirates to really make Doc that important, but 4+ tough press gangers with solid ground is a combo I've used in mk2 before)
Replacing Meg with Thor and a Basher, the 1 point I save from that can make a solo into Kell Bailoch, Gudrun, or Orin Midwinter
Replacing blasters with gunners, I have 4 gunners and 2 blasters
Ragman vs Gorman?

Any thoughts on that? Sylys seems real nice, but focus isn't actually that important because of power-up. He can fully load the driller and run the bunnies at full potential, while upkeeping everything.

>>47481840

thanks!

Sorry to be this guy, but does anyone have a link to the cygnar cards? I can't find them anymore with my link

>>47479903
>>47479923
i'm so fucking glad i pre-ordered and will get 3 of the cryx battleboxes and 1 skorne box.

i'm keeping the goddamn inflictors from the cryx boxes and fucking ebaying off 2 of the casters. with this announcement i think i'll start the bidding at $80 each

>>47481983
http://imgur.com/a/0LEvy

Works on my machine.

>>47482306
by chance were the cryx battlebox cards spoiled? i need the inflictor card

>>47482413

Inflictor isn't in the battle box, so

>>47482434
well fuck

Has anyone come up with any Amon builds for 3e yet?

>>47481554
They sold out of stock because they're retarded and didn't make enough.

This will lead to a stretch of few months where some will have mk3 stuff, while most won't. Thus creating a schism of players (and the ones that couldn't get the preorders will be pissed). By the time the 2nd wave of card decks / rule books hits the hype will have died and people would have already said "fuck it" and moved on.

This is how games die.

>>47482530
Or I'm just gonna buy my cards in War Room.

>>47482642
Yeah as much as I despise Warroom it's probably the least sucky option for now. That is, until WHAC updates.

>>47482530

this is exactly what happened with mk2, stock shortages. mk2 did fine

>>47482708
Here's hoping they've been doing something to make the shit better.

I will give them credit, the last big update on War Room made it far, far more worthwhile.

>>47482767
>>47482708
They said they wanted to have a real update to make the app better when MK3 launches.

So after some discussion on the khador forum, I've come here to talk to you about kossites.

Kossites are good in mk3. They are the best in-faction speedbump that khador has.

Compare them to the same priced WGI. Kossites have AD and Pathfinder which let them set up in the place they want to be in well in advance. Range 10 on their guns instead of 8, combined with Prowl, means they can aim and plink at things.

At arm 11, Iron Flesh benefits them *far* more than WGI. WGI at arm 15 with iron flesh isn't surviving pow 10 shots that much better than arm 13 kossites are. Well, that's not entirely true, rolling a 5 and under is a lot more likely than a 3 and under, but anything that needs less than a 6 to kill is still pretty bad. But WGI are already fairly resistant to pow 6 blasts with arm 13, which kossites are slaughtered by. Prowl + blast immune + def 13 puts them in a surprisingly good spot. They can hang out in a place where they need to be removed (especially if Yuri is on the field letting them shoot out of forests and be def 15 vs melee inside of them), with likely a much higher expenditure of forces than what they cost.

>>47482865
In comparison, winter guard infantry are now 100% about their gun. They don't jam worth a shit at def 12. Grapeshot is now pow 12 instead of 10, but even shorter ranged. Reposition doesn't work when you're running them upfield, so the UA is pretty optional now. Winter guard is now all about delivering those pow 12 guns with CRA into a place they can do damage. Take them with Irusk 2 who makes them tough and steady so they can get close, or Sorscha2 that lets them take 14 inch runs with iron flesh and her feat puts their damage output to "one-rounding a heavy with infantry guns" level. 5 14-point CRAs is doing 30 damage to arm 18 under her feat, and any spike is twice as effective. Clearly, Joe is beneficial to them, but I think that in general he's going to be more useful taken with a load of WGRC+ rockets to boost their rolls. If your caster can't deliver them (which is most casters but Irusk2 and Sorscha2), you shouldn't use them. Iron Flesh for most is generally going to be better on Pikemen and Manowar. Or hell, maybe kommandos, I don't know. But not really that great for regular winter guard. Obviously the blast immunity is nice, but it's even nicer on kossites, and just as nice on the WGRC that doesn't need any special tech beyond "front towards enemy" to deliver.

And then we have the third 11 point option to compare them to, Steelheads. Steelheads lack the FF support Khador has, as well as the pathfinder, AD, and stealth of kossites. But they do have two things very important to jamming: Reach, and Set Defense. CMA means they'll be able to clear themselves quite well after surviving a charge from other infantry, which neither kossites nor WGI can do (unless using the WGI UA so you get the gunfighter spray minifeat). But they don't have guns, and we can't make them blast immune. Can make them +2 arm and tough with their solo, however. Or give them Valachev, for FF and Zephyr.

>>47482880

Don't forget how much more anti tough there is so even tough, steady winterguard are going to suffer far worse than before

>>47482865
DESU I feel like neither really wants to jam. Kossites want to skirmish from an advantageous position and winterguard want to slog up the field and get some juicy CRAs off.
arm 15 is >25% chance of surviving an electro leap.
If they jam some infantry unit that shouldn't be in melee, pow 7-8 weapons will have a hard time breaking armor.
Combine in tough with joe and it really isn't that bad, especially with how hard they hit.
You are really underestimating just how innacurate kossites are and how, when combined with their low pow, it really limits the kinds of enemies they really want to fight.


Plus you could always give them concealment with Sorscha 1 or even greylords(although this later option probably isn't cost effective) to make them even more survivable

>>47483031
Concealment with sorscha 1 on winter guard means def 14.

Concealment with sorscha 1 on kossites means stealth when they're out in the open.

And yes, kossites are less accurate, but pathfinder + ad + longer ranged means they have opportunities to aim that WGI wouldn't have.

WGI clearly have kossites beat offensively, but kossites are a far better unit to have jamming up a zone or something.

Anyone have the link to NoQ66?

>>47483017
aw yiss

>>47482989
It's hilarious how much anti tough made it is.

It's almost like they just wanted to remove it from the game.

>>47483017
God, I would love a short story about a Convergence Forge Master telling a Retribution Mechanik all the reasons why their shit sucks.

>>47482482
I feel like
>templar
>dervish
>vigilant
>devout
will be a strong list core for him.
Templar w/ fortify is already fantastic, and you won't even need to worry about tristan getting sniped out. Not to mention the shieldguard is nice. The other obvious choice for fortify is the indictor, and I believe the indictor would be a better choice if you are worried about spells.
Vigilant not only brings 2 melee initials and high arm to be an unkillable shit, but it also brings blast immunity and can stand in the way and give amon cover. Def 20 amon is bretty nice. Might even want to bring some extra vigilants.
Dervishes will always be solid with amon.
Devout might not be necissary, but I think its a lot better now. Mat7 defensive strikes are way better than mat 6. It provides Amon with some extra protection and is somewhat respectable lategame.

Amon will probably want some infanty, although its hard to say exactly what. I'd personally go with Idrians because muh fluff, but zealots also look good.

Choir is an obvious choice, and you will probably want a second unit. Should definitely take 2 vassals to take advantage of field marshall: parry.

Focus support goes a long way for amon but I don't feel its strictly necessary. Corbeau might be nice to keep infantry off Amon's back, so even if you have the points a hierophant might not be a no brainer.

Well at least Erebus, the only character jack I own, is bananas now. Why cant all slayers have his statline? Is that so much to ask for?

>>47483184
I wish they would random (d3,d6) feats from the game and make it a static number. Nothing like planing for an outcome for the whole game and then getting shit on by dice (In a way that should not happen, I know this is a dice game and is subject to chance)

>>47483354
They've got to have variables somewhere.

The game would be boring with nothing but static numbers.

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>>47483196
>clockfags trying to rub their "superior builds" in anyone's face
I suppose if I had a camped leyline's worth of magical energy dumped into reinforcement of my fragile as shit clockwork shell of a body that doubles as a vessel for the divine will of an autistic goddess, I'd probably get delusions of grandeur too.

>>47483400
>reinforcement of my fragile as shit clockwork shell of a body

How can they be fragile while the Heavy Infantry had 8 boxes and Mother, a ranged support caster, comes with 18 boxes?

They're durable as all fuck.

>>47483354

i'm glad all of my factions feats aren't random. i hate that shit

>>47483386
2d6 is fine for your normal attack rolls and shit you're doing dozens of per game.

d3+x or d6+x isn't good for a feat.

>>47483453
Vlad2's feat works just fine.

Gaspy's feat is a little overdone, but will be fine.

Sevvy2's new feat looks a lot better.

>>47482530


Except people own all the actual models and the rules are the easiest things to disseminate to the player base

>>47483472
Vlad2's feat works fine because of context though. It's like. You're getting at least 4 dudes to become captain america, and the pair of drakhuns in your list are definitely two of them. Whatever solos you pick for the other two, be it manhunters, or some kovniks, or maybe a shocktrooper UA or demo corps grunt or uhlan grunt, is going to also wreck faces.

His feat would still be fine with me if it was just straight up 4 models. The possibility for 2 more is just icing on it.

>>47483508
Except you can't grow the playerbase if you don't have battle boxes.

If you lose the hype train of the new edition because boxes aren't out until like september, all the new people that might've bought in aren't going to. And it also shuts down journeyman leagues, because league rules require BB casters which are only in the BBs, which are out of stock. And the journeyman league is *the* tool for growth.

Guys, guys, should i pick up 2-player box for Hordes? I wanna start the game with circle and legion and bought 2 Scytheans and Typhon already aswell as shepherd.
Thought i am uncertain whether i actually want to have 4 (!) shredders with them being nerfed. Yes, i know they are sort of gang fighters against anything already engaged by your other stuff, but i could have taken something more usefull for their price. And their variants are sorta sucky-sucky aswell.
So the question is: should i pick 2-players box if i decide to play legion and circle. Oh and is Proteus powerfull? I like her alot.

Thinking of something like this:


Points: 75/75
Major Beth Maddox (+30 pts)
-Firefly (8 pts)
-Firefly (8 pts)
-Stormclad (18 pts)
~Sylys Wyshnalyrr (4 pts)
Storm Lances (Full, 20 pts)
Stormblade Infantry (10 pts)
~Officer & Standard Bearer (5 pts)
~Storm Gunner x3 (6 pts)
Trencher Infantry (Full, 16 pts)
~Trencher Grenadier x3 (6 pts)
Arlan Strangewayes (4 pts)

But I dunno if I should fit in another Stormclad.

>>47483329
Yes.

>>47483472
See, if gaspy's was d3+6 that would be different because you can plan around getting 7and 9. What the fuck are you supposed to do with between 4 and 9?

>>47483547

you'll probably get the 2 player box for close to the price of buying just the warspears and the skinwalkers so it's a good value, but you most likely won't use some shredders and the winter argus. you'll have to pick up card decks if you want to play mk3, and I would highly recommend magnetizing your heavies

>>47483969
Since the plan was usually "Kill stuff", I assume you kill stuff with it.

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Well i got a game in today of mk3 to see why everyone is selling their cryx..

BUY CRYX DIRT CHEAP NOW!!! PLEASE OMG IT'S LIKE A FUCKING BLOW OUT SALE.

i'm so goddamn happy i can basically pick up everything in the faction for 1/10th the price because the crybabies can't figure out how to win by accident.

pic related..

>>47483978
Well he freezes things around him, and i sort of like the model so winter argus is a good pick in my opinion. Moreover, i would like to change argus with winter argus model because of no stupid dog-helmet thing.
Oh and magnetizing is a difficult thing because i do not have other heads/hands for my Scytheans. Bought them off hands for like 1/5 of the price so...
At least harriers are usefull right now, right?
Or stingers maybe?

>>47483017

On one hand, it's a cool story.

On the other, I'd like to see more stuff from people that are not Retribution fanatics.

But I suppose that's the issue when you make the elven faction the local terrorist group, not the country as a whole.

>>47484062

What'd you run?

>>47483196

Why? Last I checked the Iosans were pretty god damn good at magical tech.

Yeah, humans invented cortexes but the Iosan refinements are not to be scoffed for that.

>>47484076
Litch lord venethrax
slayer
slayer
slayer
slayer
harrower
deathjack
deathripper
2x warwithch siren

i am going to drop deathjack for:
satyxis raiders +ua and the solo. same points cost swap

i think slayer spam will be good and having at least 1 arc will help with spell assasination

i need more bodies but i'm going to aim for 3-4 heavy jacks 1 or 2 lights. i might go for 2 units of witches.

>>47484108

I really hope jack spam isnt a thing 5 months from now.

>>47484081
Because the Convergence's shit is more advanced than what Ios puts out.

>>47484168
I think shit like FA:U Weaponmasters in Khador will stop that from becoming too much of a thing.

>>47484168
Troops are still relevant but with cryx and the big hit to recursion not being able to put active models in the field. (NOT HAVING TO NOT GIVE UP COMBAT ACTION)

i think mechanothralls are basically going to be sac pawn bitches for terminus from now on.

bane hralls will only be good with casters that can give them occultation

bane knights.. lol yea no thanks

satyx raiders and blood witches are probably some of the best infantry available.

i need to look at pirates and merc units. i think nyss are too expensive.

>>47484178

The Convergence has black hole guns and force fields?

Different is more accurate than 'More advanced'. A lot of factions have a lot of claim to be more advanced. Cygnar has incredible control over Electricity, Khador has the most advanced firearms, Ios has incredible power over Kinetic Energy.

>>47484168

Define 'Spam' a bit? As the new edition is looking to make seeing 3-4 warjacks on the other side common, rather than a very rare occurrence.

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>>47479031
Banes?

>>47484214
>The Convergence has black hole guns and force fields?

Convergence direct their field energy generators towards more practical purposes than pointless forcefields, like being able to levitate a fucking Colossal on it's own internal power system.

Iosan jacks, using the same concepts in terms of power systems as Convergence jacks do, also have absolutely terrible combat times.

As for guns, I'd point out that Mother has a gun very nearly as powerful as the gun on that Colossal(POW15 vs 18, AOE4 vs AOE5), though it lacks the consuming effect. Of course, she's also nothing more than a large humanoid, rather than a 66 ton warjack, so they have to cut back a little.

And Cyngar learned about all it's lightning shit from Convergence, so they can't really claim dominion over it.

In fact, the one off Thunderhead, considered a miracle of science by Cyngarians?

Every Convergence Vector uses a more advanced version of the concept.

Vyros 1 [+28]
+Imperatus 22
+Phoenix 18
+Aspis 6
+Sylys 4

Dawnguard Sentinels [10] 18
+Officer & Standard 4
Dawnguard Sentinel Scyir 4
+Griffon 8
Houseguard Halberdiers [6] 8

Mage Hunter Assassin 4
Arcanist 2
Arcanist 2
Lanyssa Ryssyll 3
Total: 75/75

Rate my shitty newb list brainstorming.
Imperatus + Phoenix might be too many points locked up in two models given that the Flank feat feels like it wants another combat jack or two, so maybe I should drop the Scyir for another MHA and get the Grif back on Vyros

>>47484268
>And Cyngar learned about all it's lightning shit from Convergence, so they can't really claim dominion over it.

Last I checked, the creator of all that tech turned down joining the Covergence. That's why he's just a Cygnaran warcaster.

>>47484268

>Iosan jacks, using the same concepts in terms of power systems as Convergence jacks do, also have absolutely terrible combat times.

So do convergence jacks. Heck, convergence GEAR does too.

They get a few hours marching then you need a recharge.

It's covered in the No Quarter that introduced Convergence Warcasters. Functionally infinite power near a Convergence base, a few hours outside it.

>>47484268

>Convergence direct their field energy generators towards more practical purposes than pointless forcefields,

>Forcefields
>Pointless

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>>47484289
Nemo didn't create the Thunderhead shit himself, he aped it from Convergence designs.

>>47484299
>So do convergence jacks. Heck, convergence GEAR does too.

No they don't. Powered by their fields, their combat times are unlimited.

Outside of the fields, even the energy heavy floating jacks boast the same to slightly better combat times over Iosan jacks.

The best heavy combat time the Iosan heavy boasts is the Hydra, at 3 hours. A few of their heavies hit 2.5, but most are 2 hours or less. The Hyperion and it's sister boast 1.5 hour combat times, in fact.

While the Convergence heavies are fairly resource heavy(given they're powering anti-gravity generators, this is to be expected), only the Modulator boasts a flat out terrible time, at 1.75 hours. The other two sit at 2 and 2.35.

The quad jacks, however, boast 4 hours or higher combat times, with the Prime Axiom boasting a 4.25 hour operational time.

And again, that's away from their power reserves. So even when they build around the idea of limitless power, they still have better batteries than Iosan jacks, which are designed to run without an active power source pretty much all the time.

>>47484306
Ios uses the force fields under the idea that they want more mobile strike platforms than most races, but the issue with that is they can clearly armor them. Instead of spending so much energy towards the fields, they could do a lot more improving motive or weapon systems. Or just provide their jacks with combat times that are better. Not all their fights are going to be hit and runs.

Reminder that sticking a random Cyclops Brute out in front of your infantry will likely win you the infantry fight since they can't run past it and they probably can't kill it, since it's a 15/18 when charged, and you can force it to make hits be re-rolled anyway. Your MAT7 dude needs an 8, so on average re-rolls won't hit,

RIP both Aradus beasts though.

>>47484358
Also, if we're going to brag, it's worth noting that Convergence casters are likely some of the best fighters around.

A lot of people take their low MAT and RAT scores to indicate that they're actually bad fighters, but that's because they misunderstand the concept of how Vectors work. Remember that Vectors have no capability for independent thought like other warjacks do, they can't operate at all without a controlling warcaster.

This also means that when a Vector is fighting, it's being directly controlled by the caster, not simply monitored and briefly controlled like how Warcasters control jacks.

This means that when Syntherion, for example, is fighting with 5 jacks, he is actively controlling every single one of them at the same time. There is no capability to simply leave the jack to it's own devices, he must make every attack, dodge every enemy attack and move it, all at the same time.

So yea, Syntherion's only a MAT6 when he's controlling his entire battlegroup.

But lets see any other faction's warcaster totally fight six battles at the exact same time while casting spells and directing troops and see how they do.

>>47484442

>So yea, Syntherion's only a MAT6 when he's controlling his entire battlegroup.

He's also MAT6 when his entire battlegroup is dead.

This works just the same in the RPG where there is plenty of room for including different rules for divided effort.

Other warcasters don't need to do that because they actually use Cortex technology and thus get to have warjacks have any independent ability to act.

It allows those factions to function worth a damn in areas where no warcaster can be brought to bear and to use forces in excess of a single warcaster's ability to control.

>>47484065

God dammit anon, I just realized you're the same guy that's been asking about the 2 player box for months now, aren't you? And I tell you the same damn thing every damn time, just get it already.

> winter argus is a good pick in my opinion

not really, you're better off with another argus than a winter one

>Oh and magnetizing is a difficult thing
because i do not have other heads/hands for my Scytheans.

if magnetized all you need is to pick up one plastic kit in the future and you'll have variety

>At least harriers are usefull right now, right? Or stingers maybe?

harriers probably with absylonia, stingers no

>>47484467
Game mechanics explain that.

And Convergence can lay claim to the invention of the cortex, they don't use it for religious reasons. And in many ways, the Induction node is far superior: See Induction.

Beyond that, Convergence rarely needs to operate like that, but even when they do, their infantry more than suffice. They're not any more skilled than most other troops, sure, but they require no food, sleep or rest. They can fight forever, and without fear. Indeed, supported by mechanics to repair them and Foundries to bring them back, they could operate far beyond what any other force could possibly hope to match.

>>47484358

However, Convergence stuff is limited in even non-combat times. Just marching about the world consumes power they can't replace without a temple.

Retribution Arcane Condensers allow for indefinite non-combat usage while recharging the batteries used for combat time.

The Arcane Condenser has distinct advantages over the Convergence method.

>>47484442

As for boasting: Iosan metalwork is better than Convergence.

They are expressly said in their book to be second only to Rhul in that area.

>>47484500

>Game mechanics explain that.

Aka: I have no actual basis for this other than my own assumptions?

As the RPG has a lot of rules for things that don't turn up on the TT like needing to reload a rifle. Yet it had not a single rule for losing RAT/MAT on Convergence warcasters based on number of bots controlled.

I don't even like the Retribution but you are really blowing the 'Convergence is the best at all tech' horn hard when every single faction has areas it can claim superiority in, even in tech. After all, the Convergence wasn't the guys who invented cooling systems for firearms. That was Khador for it's latest Collosal.

>>47484533
>However, Convergence stuff is limited in even non-combat times. Just marching about the world consumes power they can't replace without a temple.

Sure, but those times are still pretty massive, given their combat times. And they don't build their jacks around the concept of being autonomous.

Myrmidons design also absolutely relies on their Field Generators for many of their systems, losing it cripples them heavily.
Hopefully we get to see that mechanic actually come up in Mk3, instead of rocket tag with jacks

Convergence boasts quite a few Rhulic dwarves among it's ranks. In fact, Rhul might actually be the Convergence's biggest enemy, even more than the Celephex. Rhul fucking hates the Convergence.

>>47484533
It's quite possible that Convergence did invent that, actually. Most technological developments in Cyngar and Khador can be traced back to Cyriss worshippers.

>>47484597

>Sure, but those times are still pretty massive, given their combat times. And they don't build their jacks around the concept of being autonomous.

As opposed to 'If a convergence jack runs out of power, it's nothing but scrap metal to be dragged'?

>Myrmidons design also absolutely relies on their Field Generators for many of their systems, losing it cripples them heavily.

So does losing the Induction Node for Convergence bots.

>It's quite possible that Convergence did invent that, actually. Most technological developments in Cyngar and Khador can be traced back to Cyriss worshippers.

That's not really something you have evidence for though. You can't claim 'Yeah, we made that' unless it actually says you made it.

>>47484625
>That's not really something you have evidence for though. You can't claim 'Yeah, we made that' unless it actually says you made it.

Of course nothing specific, it doesn't really talk about it much.

However, the Victor's mortar bears a shit load of similarities to the Cipher's servipod mortar.

>>47484597

>Myrmidons design also absolutely relies on their Field Generators for many of their systems, losing it cripples them heavily.

You know there is a heap of Myrmidon designs without field generators, right? An entire house's worth.

>>47484636

>However, the Victor's mortar bears a shit load of similarities to the Cipher's servipod mortar.

That's because they are both autoloading mortars. I actually meant the Flak Cannons though, which have fluff on the creation of them so we can pretty conclusively say a Khadoran created it.

>>47484492
Yes, i am really uncertain and jumpy about it lol.
No more such questions, i promise.
Thanks for your answers and patience, thought.

>>47484597
>It's quite possible that Convergence did invent that, actually
WE WUZ
INVENTERS 'N SHIEET
Cyriss may certainly be fed divine essence by fresh mechanical inventions and engineering, but that doesn't mean all technology is suddenly the product of her followers and them alone.

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Any news on the most worthless lesser warcaster out there, Initiate Tristan Durant?

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>>47484753

>>47484753
That's not the Ret lesser.

Menoth loved it's lesser.

>>47484784
>>47484753

4 focus when power up exists? How is this bad?

He's got the focus to run a few lights or a single melee heavy fantastically. He's also got decent enough stats to keep him alive.

The only thing you could really ask is for that to be Field Marshal: True Sight so he gets some real use out of it.

Pfffft, you haven't seen Elara in Mk II have you, she got jacked in the shift. She lost shitty countercharge for battlegroup wide refuge in a faction of badass gun jacks.

>>47484062
You know what we need? A picture of this fucking bastard stealing Bag of TV from visibly frustrated Mortenebra.

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>>47484930
>>47484062

>>47485094

fantastic

>>47485094
>SKREEONK
gold

>>47484784
whats the sparkly symbol mean?

>>47485252
Magic is a damage type now, much like Fire or Electricity.

>>47485275
ahh thanks.

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>>47485094
Making these is fun

>>47482187
There's no Inflictor in the Cryx box, did you mean Reaper?

Anyone have any brainstorming tips for Bloodweavers? They look interesting, but they're even weirder than they were in Mk II and I have no idea how to fit them into a list.

>>47484268
>As for guns, I'd point out that Mother has a gun very nearly as powerful as the gun on that Colossal(POW15 vs 18, AOE4 vs AOE5), though it lacks the consuming effect. Of course, she's also nothing more than a large humanoid, rather than a 66 ton warjack, so they have to cut back a little.

I'd point out that, lore-wise, that gun is nowhere near as powerful as the thing on the Hyperion. Those things kill dragons. They don't blow stuff up, they literally collapse spacetime in the blast zone, utterly deleting anything that happened to be occupying that space. This is why it has the Consume effect.

Lore-wise, there is absolutely no known defense against the Hyperion's main gun.

>>47482482

My inaugural Mk3 list:

Amon +29
- Crusader 10 x8 = 80
Max Choir 6
Vassal Mechanik 1 x2 = 2
Vassal of Menoth 3 x2 = 6
Deliverer Sunburst Crew 5 x2 = 10

>>47483328
I am pretty strongly convinced that all Crusaders, all the time is the way to go with Amon. Jacks work so much better now, and Amon buffs them up all the more, and the Crusader is a great, highly survivable (ARM 19, 32 boxes, FM: Parry and Enliven on the vanguard jacks), and hits at PS 20 *before* Synergy kicks in.

All of the light jacks are too close to the Crusader in cost to be worth it as far as I can tell if for nothing else because the Crusader can trample, which negates the volume of attacks difference (anything that needs multiple hits from a light will require less hits from a heavy, and you can trample over masses of light infantry).

You can take a Vigilant or Devout to protect Amon (or just keep two Crusaders in reserve to block LoS), but for offensive jacks I think the big choice is going to be how many Crusaders get upgraded to a Castigator or Vanquisher; for my Mk3 list revision 1 ( >>47486416 ), my answer is zero, and I use Sunburst crews to provide some aoe shots to keep infantry honest (since a Sunburst is cheaper than upgrading a Crusader to a Vanquisher).

Amon is going to make just about any combination of jacks *work*, but just from the mathematical angle, I'm convinced that a core of Crusaders is the best setup.

>>47484168
Jack spam is going to be the meta for at least the first year. It's going to take PP at least that long to a) fix it via design, and b) actually get new models out designed to fix jack spam.

In no particular order, you need to be able to deal with (at 75 points):

Venethrax running 8 Slayers, all with countercharge. Of course, if you're running jack spam yourself, you don't care as much about TV. Gaspy3 with 8 Slayers will be fun, too, with him having FM: Unyielding and Mobility.

Karchev or Harkevich running 11 Mad Dogs (341 boxes at ARM 18). Or 8 Marauders (272 boxes at ARM 20). Or 6 Juggernauts. Karchev moves them around with Road to War and gives them all countercharge and then has a brutal feat turn. Harkevich just makes them fast as fuck (Mobility *and* reposition 3 to battlegroup).

eMagnus or Bart running 7 Nomads (210 boxes at ARM 21 or 22). eMagnus gives them all unyielding and has Escort, Bart casts Batten, and well, that's enough.

Amon running 8 Crusaders. 256 boxes at ARM 19, the guy in front is at ARM 21, the two up front are immune to knockdown (if not all of them) and enlivened, and if you've got spells or ranged attacks to deal with them, every one you can see can't be targeted by them. And then they swing at up to PS 23. And he makes them fast as Warpwolves (faster than Scytheans now, *giggle*) and gives them all pathfinder.

These are going to be what you need to know how to kill, and I think Amon is the alpha predator of the group.

>>47484214
See >>47486416

>>47484268
>>47485833

...that and 15 isn't really 'Nearly as powerful' as 18.

15 is 'A big cannon'.

>>47486711

Ok. That is pretty spam.

I wasn't sure if you meant 'A dozen' or '5' as Spam.

>>47486702

Why only 6 Juggers

They're 12 points. Karchev gives what--30 WJ points (don't have my pdf in front of me).

Karchev can run 8 Juggers and have change left.

>>47486802
Sorry, I should have said 7. 8 doesn't leave you much room for anything else, although I suppose Khador has less support they'd want on the table compared to Menoth.

>>47486828

Yeah I could see that.

Battle charged got much better with Eiryss/Purification changes (Well, at least less of it).

I'm concerned about infantry. I'm not sure how they hang anymore, unless they're weapon masters.

>>47486849
CRA seems cheap enough to be useful, at least it's no longer that units with CRA are automatically priced out of usefulness. Reeves and Long Gunners look pretty good because of being able to get two big CRAs per turn.

For Khador, min WG Infantry or Rifles with 3x rocketeers are good, in addition to the obvious doomies.

There are useful infantry out there, but as a whole they seem less purposeful.

>>47486849
Infantry will have it's place, it just won't do everything all at once any more. Weapon master infantry will be happy to much on more jacks instead of over killing other infantry. Jamming units will be fancing less attack spam and be draining focus or gumming up a Jack for a few turns and most jacks lack the ability to deal with terrain so pathfinder infantry will be useful for board control.

These jack spam lists look difficult to deal with until you take terrain into account and just straight up assassination run blocking. If you only have jacks covering your caster I will be able to move one out the way and assassinate them. If you have a bunch of infantry I'm going to struggle to get a model in where I need it unless I clear out 4 or 5 models.

>>47486828
I don't see how mechaniks are not must haves for a jack heavy khador list. It forces an opponent to pick one and fully kill it instead of maximizing damage across the battlegroup. Ignoring jacks which are crippled far enough.

>>47487006
>>47487069


Maybe. Right now, as a Trollbro, I'm playing around with;

eMadrak
--Runebearer
--Rok
--Bouncer

Full Fenns with UA

Full Warders
Full Warders

Min Stone with UA

Fellcaller


I think Madraks feat + Rok + Maddy himself deals with any infantry, swapped Blood Frenzy should deal with some jacks.

>>47487069

Jack spam also generates a low volume of attacks. a charging juggernaut for example can only kill things within an inch of itself. if someone wants to take 7 or 8 juggernauts they will just not be able to deliver enough attacks

Hordes has dealt with this problem for a long time and the faction thats best at dealing with it was Legion all through mk2.

i dont see random juggernaut spams being able to overcome the problem because they dont have the tools Legion had.

Though i have to say im looking forward to the jack spamming. Skorne has so many infantry based tools to absolutely crush it underfoot. Zaal1 is ready. Every infantry weaponmaster!

>>47479031
Banes?

>tfw all non-character privateer units and all solos are gonna be unplayable in mk3

>>47487069
>These jack spam lists look difficult to deal with until you take terrain into account and just straight up assassination run blocking

Three of the big jack-heavy casters (Gaspy3, Amon, and Harkevich) give Pathfinder to their battlegroup. Amon is going to be able to stop a lot of shenanigans with Enliven + Passage or Shielding, but yeah -- the answer to jack spam is assassination, but I'm not sure it's a *good* answer unless your list is built around it. And even then, Amon can drop a Crusader and pick up 10 temple flameguard to jam.

I'm building the Amon list, and right now the only thing I'm overly concerned about is Kara Sloan or Haley1 using GMCAs to trivially make jacks not block LoS and then feating for ranged assassination. Against everything else you'd have to get through two ARM 19 heavies to see Amon.

>>47487132
Heavies can trample, and get the focus to do it for free. When you've got 7+ on the board, you can afford to trample a couple of heavies up the gut.

Against anything other than small-based infantry, jack spam gives you *enough* attacks.

pZaal stands to be a really strong caster exactly for that, though.

>>47487219
Enjoy pissing your money away on a joke list that won't last 6 months.

People are caught up on Kharchev but...The Butcher 1 is also golden.

Free Charges=1 Free Extra Focus, thats also very good.

And being accurate never hurt anybody.

And he his spell list is no joke either.

>>47484178
Convergence player, and that's not even close to the truth.

Our vectors are actually really niche pieces of technology. They work indefinitely within specialized fields, but outside of those areas, they have extremely short operational times that the Convergence themselves mention often. Iosan warjacks are probably the most logistically useful on the continent. They literally never run out of power outside of the strain of active combat, and can be refueling themselves on ambient magic bullshit constantly. They require no baggage train, they require no real downtime, they can constantly be moving when not doing demanding combat stuff. An Iosan 'jack, if its motors and such could hold up, could walk from one end of Immoren to the other, and never have to stop.

Furthermore, the Convergence's goal is to manifest their goddess on Caen via magical technology... which the elves have already done. Sure, it blew up their entire kingdom, and I suspect their eventual role may be to stop the Convergence before they do the same to western Immoren, but some few thousand years ago the elves already had technology that the Convergence is far from perfecting now.

>>47487440

I must admit, I'd really like the retribution to be proven wrong.

Yeah, 'Kill all humans' was a fun twist on elves but it really limits storytelling/diplomacy possibilities and there are already enough factions (Hello most of Hordes) with that.

>>47487481
It also makes no sense why they would target Circle or Troll bloods (really any Hordes faction) as they don't really use magic.

I would be very amusing if the Jacks powered by Ambient Magic where the ones that killed all the elves gods.

>>47487503
Except the way they use Magic? Circle has loads of magical bullshit going on. Trolls don't make much sense but Trolls are going to fuck you up for being in their swamp and Ios have to pass through Troll held areas.

Retribution also don't know exactly why human magic is killing their Gods, it's better to kill them all then risk being wrong.

>>47487503

Circle could easily get caught in the crossfire despite not using arcane magic.

But yeah, I'd like to see the Retribution proven wrong and to move to a still militaristic but non-monofocused goal.

Like if they found out that they could save their gods by getting all the Ley Line convergences. They'd end up brawling with every single faction but also able to engage more with diplomacy when the primary goal isn't involved.

>>47487524

Circle are a 'Sorta/maybe'. I could see the more reasonable parts of the Retribution like Ossyan going 'This is pre-dead gods magic, it's not tied to it'. While then you get edgelord mcgunblade who'd go 'Human + Magic = Dead Human'.

Generally though, they are human and they use magic so it's always an option to stab them.

>>47487313
Oh, I will.

Has the upside that I enjoy painting jacks but find painting infantry tedious.

And I'd be shocked if it isn't a valid second tournament list for Menoth for most of Mk3.

>>47484268
you mean clockwork capcitors and field transmission? The same stuff that has a very short time to run if its outside of a main power node leaving your forces unable to actually do a steady offensive or a far reaching blitz? Where as both Iosan jacks and Cygnaran jacks are able to operate far into the field with little trouble either due to easier supply chains or simply because the tech is actually more efficient if not as 'flashy' This isn't even going into things like the Hyperion series which were initially built to fight and take out dragons, some of the single most terrifying entities in the Iron Kingdoms. Also, pow 15 is a light artillery piece Winter guard say hello.

>>47484108
IMO, he'd be better with inflictors. Consider adding an ILO. Also the blood witches are probably better than the raiders

>>47487640
yea the bloodwitches have stealth and can go incoporeal when they kill living.

going to try both out today. also going to try 2 units of witches with ua

>>47487219
You should be concerned about

Gunnbjorn
--3 bombers
--Janissa

That's 6 fully boosted to hit and fully boosted POW 16 damage from 17" away anon.

>>47484706
This just in, Lightbulbs were made by Convergence! So was air!

>>47487652
living or dead

>>47487481
They'll probably be proven partially wrong. It's likely that the Gift and the Rivening are related, but killing all humans isn't the way or the only way to help their gods.

That said, depending on how stuff has gone down during the timeskip, their priorities may have shifted already. Nyssor clearly had some shit to tell them. They might be looking for the rest of their pantheon now.

>>47487440
The elves have technology handed to them that very few of them actually understand, which severely hampers innovation. While Cyriss followers have been able to fully comprehend every aspect of their technology and actively improve upon it.

>>47487652
Living or dead, including friendlies

>>47487708
I'd say they've been pretty damn innovative in the past they were the first race to really master fire arms and again, they literally have a cannon that deletes portions of the universe. The Arcane Turbine also was invented

>>47487655
It's a concern, yeah, but Arcing Fire doesn't ignore models within 1", and you'd run the list with 2 Crusaders behind the front line, both to replace dead ones and to deny LoS.

Explosivo only works on the first shot still, doesn't it (I don't have the Troll spoilers on this machine), so I think Passage protects the jacks from half of that.

I don't think the list is unbeatable by any stretch, I do think, though, that a) its only big weakness is to assassination focused lists, and b) it's very strong against everything else, and c) it's strengths will just get magnified in a steamroller 2-list format.

>>47487708
Not actually canon.

They were given the gift of learning early, but they did figure shit out. Iosan society is full of professionals who understand their stuff very well.

There are only a few instances where their gods literally said "just put x on y like so," and they generally worked that stuff out in reverse. They stopped innovating for the last few hundred years because 1. they didn't need to when their gods were around and 2. there was a sense of hopelessness after the Rivening that discouraged many from bothering, since it seemed like everything was going to be for nothing anyway.

Either way, it doesn't change the fact that they managed to make a ridiculously efficient power system for their warjacks.

>>47487745
>they literally have a cannon that deletes portions of the universe

They invented this after their gods had left, by the way.

Is there a pdf of the Wild Adventure unleashed book yet? I remember the skorne one was posted here.

Hey, can the ikrpg be run well with just 3 people?

Pbutcher with a bunch of Kodiak's plz

All those boosted mat 7 chain attacks, cloud coverage, and pow 12 install hits on infantry

>>47484073
Is it just me, or do most factions read like terrorist groups?

Retribution: Elven terrorists
Protectorate: Menite terrorists
Circle: devorer terrorists
Convergence: clockwork terrorists
Legion: dragon cult terrorists
Trolls: blue terrorists

I get that the only out and out terrorist group is the Retribution, but outside of Cryx, Cygnar, Khador, and Skorne, none of the factions feel like empires at war.

>>47488079
Just because menoth has the religious thing doesn't make them terrorists, they're a nation that is actively at war with its neighbors.

Legion feels more like an army without a nation than terrorists

>>47484062
>>47485094
>>47485340
These are the best things I've ever seen in a WHG.

I'm crying.

>>47488079
just because someone is a canibal, it does not make him or her a terrorist. Trolls are not blue terrorists.

>>47488040
Yes.

Anyone gets the link to MKIII Khador? Old album is dead.

>>47487771

No, Explosivo works on every shot now :)

>>47488079
Terrorist is a culture based meme, it's definition is so wide it can cover anything.

Who are your guys go tos going to be in mkiii?

Im thinking pDenny, scaverous, venethrax and pGaspy for a while

Does anyone have the Major Gibbs card that was leaked a couple days back?

>>47488483
The only caster I own is pDenny, and I'm thinking of expanding into Scaverous.

>>47488504
Could be a good idea. My versions of the casters have a few overlaps with croes and WWSs.

Whats your denny list look like?

>>47488504
I wouldn't, Scaverous is too dependent on souls and those will be sparse in jackmachine.

>>47488482
They can't be terrorists though they're not brown :^)

>>47487597
>>47487440
I'm quoting the official numbers for Vector combat times.

They outclass every other factions warjacks in combat operational time, and the quad jacks do it by a pretty wide margin.

Most warjacks measure their combat time in minutes, with few making it more than an hour.

Cryx, with it's spooky coal and Ret with it's magic batteries are looking at around 1.5-2 hours.

And again, combat times on the Quad heavies of Convergence jacks are around four hours.

>>47482846
Yeah. It's in Beta right now. It crashes less and has more features. The optimization remains terrible.

>>47488544
Not nessiarily. He functions very well now without souls. Souls just give him a lost of oomph

>>47488535
I started just before the MK3 announcement, so I only have

pDenny
Slayer
Defiler
Deathripper

Bane Thralls, big unit + Officer & SB
Mechanithralls, big unit
Necrosurgeon
Pistol Wraith
Scarlock Thrall
Warwitch Siren

Pretty shitty, i guess, but I didn't want to get angry looks by buying into full-on banespam right from the start. And considering nerfs that was pretty lucky I guess.

>>47488640
Only bane thralls were nerfed, bane knights remain virtually unchanged.

Consider getting blood witches and their ua, the only unit that recieved what could be considered a buff

>>47488673
How do knights remain unchanged?

They lost weaponmaster, and yea, Brutal charge puts out roughly the same damage charging, their vengeance damage is super cut down.

>>47488388
Nice.

>>47488483
Tanith, pKromac, eKromac, Tanith, pMorv, and Tanith.

>>47488551
Yes, we know.

That's not really the point. Convergence stuff can operate for a few hours outside of field generators, and that's their entire operational time.

Iosan warjacks can literally run until they wear down outside of combat. They can only maintain combat activity for around two hours, but they can move around pretty much forever. They're designed primarily with a logistical eye. The Retribution don't care about running their stuff for several hours on end. They care about getting these things across Immoren without a huge ass baggage train following them around.

>>47488855
No, that's their combat operational time.

Their entire operational run time is not discussed, but is more likely on the measure of days, given most other warjacks operational time versus combat time.

>>47488891
With coal powered jacks, operational time seems to be about 5x their combat time.

>>47488891
IIRC that's not correct, the problem of running them for a long time beyond specialized zones is brought up by Convergence casters as something they really need to worry about. We don't have numbers on it, though.

Anyway, the point is that they're designed to do different things. Iosan warjacks aren't designed to be activated in an area and run for four hours at combat efficiency while performing a single battlefield role. They're designed to perform multiple roles simultaneously for a shorter time (makes sense: elves are lesser in number almost always), while being able to constantly travel for quick redeployment and minimal logoistical worry.

It's just a different design ethos. Iosan warjacks consume more power at combat operational level because they do more stuff, generally.

Iosan jacks consume more power because cyriss jacks use spring tension and flywheels and shit for their weapons while iosan jacks use their battery power.

>>47486535
You may be right about the offensive lights, but I still think that taking at least one heavy with a shield will be worth it.
Arm 23 is pretty huge. It means 2 less damage from the 1 attack you will suffer before enliven kicks in. Half of all IFP just plain fail to damage.
A jack with p+s 19 is hitting at dice off 4, and at p+s 17 (which isn't uncommon for warbeasts) they will be doing an average of 1 damage per attack.

>>47488947
It's a no-brainer, really.

What consumes more power? A simple piston mechanic used to drive a metal stake, or... something... that generates a force field capable of causing the air within a radius of two or three meters to spontaneously combust?

Considering all the magic shit they're constantly doing, Ret 'jacks must consume tons of power.

>>47489005

Honestly, it's impressive just how much battery life they do get when running a force-field and kinetic blaster off it.

>>47485340
now make one where they find out they are out of Mechanithralls and she ponders using Deryliss instead (I'm not sure if that actually works rule-wise, but that's besides the point)

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>>47488933
It doesn't say exactly how long they run, but it does say "considerably longer"

>>47489005
Convergence jacks boast far more high tech equipment than Iosan jacks do.

The floater jacks are producing enough lift to counter their five and a half ton frames, for example, and still boast combat times equal to Iosan jacks.

>>47488684
As you said, charge output is relativly unchanged wich I would argue is the most important thing. As for vengance, I always found their output to be very "meh" due to their inaccuracy. I always found the key to vengance was the distance since banes are slow

However, changes to backstrike could potentially make their vengance hits more accurate. I think its really a wash

>>47484268

Levitating a machine big enough to just plow through terrain anyway seems like the pointless design here. Silicon-Valley-engineer-vanity-project status. Force fields actually do stuff for Retribution 'jacks, like protect those fancy internal power systems.

>>47484442

They can split their attention very well, but most seem to be pretty mediocre fighters compared to warcasters in other factions. They can play Starcraft with the best of 'em, but even when they have no 'jacks and can focus all of their attention on themselves, they fight the same. They're just really good multi-taskers.

>>47484500

Cryx infantry can not just match but actually far surpass Convergence infantry on that front. No food, sleep, rest, or fear, but they also don't need spare parts or tools to maintain them, and they can make more soldiers during and between fights. A convergence army never walks away with more guys than it arrived with.

>>47484597

Most Cyriss worshipers have no contact with the Convergence. She's a goddess of invention; of course a lot of inventors pay her homage. But she's an inactive god, like most in the setting. When an engineer prays to her and then builds something, she's not actually doing anything. It's all the human.

The Convergence is a small, specific group of elite Cyriss cultists who try to avoid most living humans, and they don't generally share their work with outsiders. Other than Nemo collaborating with them on a few things and sometimes just stealing their ideas, very little of modern Immorese technology has anything to do with them.

>>47482865
>>47482880
I think kayazi will outperform kossites in the front speedbump role you're suggesting.

As for WGI they are not just speedbump. They can kill anything in the game and are better at it than before. They have a very strong punch for their price thanks to rockets.

I would imagine kossites can murder infantry or support very efficiently because of new backstrike rules.

I don't like any merc options in this role because of Valachev tax. Lists got tighter on points now, it's very hard to justify random solos.

>>47489239
Floater jacks produce enough power to lift themselves up and keep their weapon systems running.

Iosan jacks produce enough power keep them running (faster), power their weapon systems, produce the arcane charge that makes their attacks magical, keep their forcefields up, and then they can run indefinitely at lower power consumption.

Both are running a passive system that negates force (floater vectors are negating gravity, Iosan Shyeel 'jacks have to be able to reliably stop several tons of incoming force with their shields).

Are Barrow or Crocs the stronger minions faction now?

>>47489624
Doesn't matter, you can mix and match now.

>>47489657
Not Warlocks and beasts you can't.

>>47488959
You may be right; I plan to experiment, and swapping a Crusader and a Sunburst for an Indicter looks like a pretty solid choice.

Also looking at fitting in a Vigilant to protect against stuff like >>47487655 .

In any case, I think the ideal list will prove to have 7+ heavies and at least 5 of them Crusaders or Castigators.

>>47489725
I mean, the Inflictor has a release date, the Indictor actually has to come out, doesn't it?

>>47489700
>>47489624
From a pure mechanics and spell lists perspective Farrow have much better warlocks than Crocs.

Crocs however have much better beasts than Farrow.

Uh....Khador Warjacks require the least amount of maintenance?

Real Soviet style. Your cars mileage may be shit, and overall its primitive, but it will last for 5 decades until the literal frame wears out.

I guess ease of repair is a quality all of its own.

>>47489865
Access to Primal makes me think that second point is arguable.

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>desperately awaiting new Prime models
>there are people still discussing the probable release dates for models from Reckoning

This is true suffering.

I'm not going to be running any Thorn gun mages or dancing elf healers for years yet to come, am I?

>>47490612
Small based models almost always get released pretty quickly, it's the bigger models that can take a while, and the only ones that take more than a few months are kits that they're trying to do in their new plastic which is exclusively limited to big kits right now.

>>47490612
Try Vengeance.

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>>47485340
>>47485094
I spent way too much time on this
(1/2)

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>>47490938

Will cleansers with pFeora be worth it?
Rat 6 is fairly respectable, but I'm afraid of being too susceptible to fire immunity.
They also don't crack armor as very well without incinerate, and bringing too much anti infantry seems like it could be a liability in this edition.

>>47488551
And you're missing the more important points. That few hours gets you no where constant recharges and downtime mean transport by rail or boat instead of over land. Ios with its landlocked nation and no real rail system and a bent towards far reaching deep strikes into the enemy favors longer times over all. Convergence design theory isn't about offense on its jacks its about holding the line in an area, Iosan jacks are about stealth and maneuver warfare. The actual kingdoms of the setting favor a middle ground of static battle lines and also lack the technologies to push into a fighting style like Ios with Cryx being the closest even then though we see them needed bases for repairs and rebuilding forces such as in the thornwood. The combat doctrines are fundamentally different with that said, Convergence might have the best 'human based' jack technologies.

>>47490938
>>47490961
i like these

>>47487125
Just checking, but you know that Spell Slave can't be used to cast Upkeep spells, right? If you want to cycle out Blood Frenzy, then Madrak himself will have to cast it.

>>47490961
>>47490938
The loss of Dark Industries really disappointed me. Like, I guess the Combine is still useful, but PP got rid of the coolest thing about them. They just aren't going to be as much fun as they used to be.

>>47491400
It made sense, though, with the removal of scrap markers.

>>47491418
Dark Industries never interacted with scrap markers. They needed to get the last hit while all were in base contact with a jack to trigger it.

>>47491442
Then I'm thinking of something else.

>>47491400

B13 feels ya.

Is the mk3 revenant crew any useful? At least as a renewable sacrifice with Skarre?

>>47486535
in a similar vein to this, what's cygnar's mainline jack gonna be? I mean, it kinda has to be the centurion, he's just too hard to kill.

>>47491812
I suspect the Centurion will be the default Cygnar jack.

The Ironclad is their Crusader-equivalent, but Cygnar doesn't have any casters that will support cheap, heavy jackspam like Morty/Venethrax/Amon/Harkevich/Karchev/eMagnus/Bart.

>>47491868
does the ironclad have any use? I really like the model and kinda wanna use him

So, if the Skulls of Hate can (supposedly) turn any Warjack that they are attached to into the Deathjack...what happened when you put them onto a Vector?

Who wants to bet that when we get a Puppet Master Gargantulossal, it's designation will be 'Cephalyx Abomination'?

>>47491912
the ironclad is fine, its just (almost certainly) not as good as the centurion

>>47491912
Maybe? I don't think it's going to be a common thing that you'd want to drop down to the Ironclad to save the points, as Cygnar doesn't have as much stuff it can hand out to *all* its jacks like the other factions do, but it's far from a bad jack.

It looks to me like the Feral Warpwolf does in Mk2 -- it's perfectly fine on its own, it just has a bigger brother that's much better.

>>47491934
>what happened when you put them onto a Vector?

Nothing, I assume. There's no cortex for the Skulls to corrupt. It'd just be like nailing on some really spooky-looking decor, until the Vector ends up getting trashed and they find their way onto a proper Warjack.

>>47492041
Hmm, makes sense.

>>47491934
Guess it just gives you a very oddly shaped Deathjack with a brain in each fist. It's necromancy, I don't have to explain shit.

>>47492019
>>47491964
what about the stormclad? he seems really good if you run lots of stormnouns. he can load himself up for free with them and strangeways (which I may take in most lists)

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>>47489113
>>47490961

Nice idea. And Deryliss is actually a Warrior model, too.

>>47490938
>>47490961
I see someone is a classic Python fan.

>>47491732
With Rengrave they can try to accomplish things and with stealth/concealment they probably will even last some time.

Also since Cryx doesn't have Ranking officer so they're pretty much the only choice for ranged shooting infantry that Faction buffs work on.

>>47492317
Guilty as charged. You get a +3 movement bonus and free boosted damage.

anyone got a link to circle cards? I can't find

Anyone got a working link to the card leaks?

>>47492339
boo.

Any spoilers for new models in prime yet?

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>>47492743

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>>47492743
>>47492953

any Minion bros out there? I have

Barney
Rask

Wrasler
Bullsnapper
Spitter

Posse x 2
Bog trogs
Croaks

What do I need to make this into a fully playable list?

>>47492743
Three models per faction. Off the top of my head:

>Prime
Khador: Lord Kozlov, Winterguard Artillery Captain, Man-o-War Shocktrooper Officer

Cygnar: Maddox, Arcane Tempest Rifleman, Stormsmith Grenadiers

Cryx: Bane Witch Agathia, Carrion Thralls, ???

Retribution: Magister Helynna, Lys Healer, House Ellowuyr Swordsmen

Menoth: Malekus, Knight Exemplar UA, ???

Convergence: Nothing

Mercs: Major Gibbs, Amethyst Thorn Gun Mages

>Primal
Skorne: Xekaar, ???, ???

Trolls: Ragnor Skysplitter, Northkin Shaman,

Legion: Kryssa, Blighted Nyss Warlord, Hellmouth

Circle: Tannith, Blackclad Stoneshaper, ???

Minions: Farrow Commandos, ???, ???

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>>47492278
>>47485094

Somebody stop him

>>47493095
Cryx is getting the Satyxis gun slingers, and I believe a DJ resculpt which may or may not be at LnL

So a day later, have any other big retailers said anything about shortages or is Meeple the only one?

>>47493385
Multiple have confirmed it including PP themselves. We're fucked on new stuff.

>>47493483
Fuck it ill just get 4 slayers then.

>>47493528
It's annoying as I'm interested in Circle after listening to The Leyline, they look pretty fun now..

>>47491964

I think people are over hyped about this whole "no charge" thing. You can still slam it, you can swarm it (run), you can shoot at it, you can cast spells at it. There is so much you can do, that simply fucks this jack over.
But yes, its good, has a fair price, and has a cool ability, but it ain't as good as /tg/ wants to suggest.

>>47493589
Not to mention that if your list has eyriss you can distrupt it and it wont be able to polarity shield or run.

>>47493589
I'm pretty sure if you can't charge something you can't slam it.

>>47492278
Should have been

>Hey, Mr. "Warrior", could you...

>>47493589
>>47493807

The rule says no slams either.

Where it's going to be good is when you take it with pHaley, so she can have two, Arcane Shield on both (with the junior), Arcane Vortex to protect it from spells, and Temporal Barrier to stack a SPD debuff on top of "cannot be charged or slammed".

There are ways around it (like as mentioned, disruption) and it's not game-breaking, but it's still fucking good.

>>47493574
They're kind of tardid on leyline. Not as retarded as the guys on Blight Makes Right, seriously those guys cant fit enough croak and blightbringer dicks in their mouth

>>47493915
True, that would have been good.

>>47493706
with the change to power up and the removal of character restrictions, literally every cygnar list is going to bring arlan.

>>47493589
being unchargeable, plus the extra arm it has over other cygnar jacks, makes it considerably tougher and harder to out-threat than its competitors for not all that much more in price, plus it got bumped to mat 7.

its exactly the melee heavy a lot of cygnar casters want. there's still a place for most other heavies, but given what we know right now we have a lot of very good reasons to believe that the question is "why that instead of a centurion".

>>47493483
>We're fucked on new stuff.

Been looking around and I'm not seeing a mass uproar about it, it can't possibly be as bad as that if the internet isn't flipping their shit over it.

>>47494066
It's hard to judge how this effects the end line of people yet.

If major online stores come out and say they can't fill, say, half their reserves? Yea, people are going to be pissed.

>>47493981
I really like the croaks to. I wish I could find a use for them outside of taking double croaks. I might end up having to play Farrow warlock with them just so I can use the fire boost.