Pathfinder General /pfg/
Lycanthrope edition
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>>47442997
>Lycanthrope Edition
WHICH IS THE BETTER SKINWALKER FOR MARTIALING HARD, CROC OR SHARK?
So since I got brought up last thread, I might as well repost something I tossed out to get opinions on a month or so ago... But got no feedback on. So fuck me up and rip it apart.
An attempt to make an alternative to the Promethean Alchemist's Homunculus:
http://pastebin.com/B3twtU4V
>"but prometheanfag, this is WAY better/worse than what the archetype normally gets! It also may or may not be utterly pointless!"
That's because I am bad at this, and have no idea what I'm doing. I just like the idea of homebrewing, so I throw things at the wall and see if anything sticks.
>>47443073
Shark, since Croc will hurt your Will Saves. Personally, I prefer Wolf
>>47443162
not being based ragebred
it is like you don't even tusk
>>47443200
You say something bacon?
>>47443264
yeah, like how crocs and sharks are pussies
come at me bro
>>47442997
Oh right, lycanthropes. Anyone with questions about Lords of the Wild, I'm going to be around for a while.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FcMpsY7ancpaWiBpFhI_jlARL8p2OXZhaFxAjzJCyW4/edit
I'd rather not answer questions about Chimera Soul, since that's more Elric's department than mine, but feel free to tear into the rest of it.
Also, if whoever runs the trove is around, could I get this added to it?
>>47443200
>you will never be a Small Ragebred Cavalier with a Boar mount
Why even pig?
>>47443162
>literally becoming Momiji
>>47443285
Uh werebats where?
Somebody talk me out of buying the kineticists of porphyra books (or at least the first one).
>>47443296
What's wrong with Momiji?
>>47443298
The focus of the book is on werewolves, but if you want werebats I'd suggest looking into taking the Swiftwing Shift feat.
>>47443320
YOUR MEMES END HERE
>>47443285
So if I have chimera soul, I qualify for shifting feats right?
>>47443354
Actually, anyone can take shifting feats. The shapeshifter subtype (which knowing a Chimera Soul maneuver gives you) allows you to add [Shifting] to your options on any restricted bonus feats you get (for example, Fighter combat feats). So it helps some classes accelerate their shifting feat progression
>>47443380
So with that trait to get 1 maneuver known, I can get the [Shifting] subtype with ease?
>>47443320
Don't sexualize Momiji!
>>47443327
What's the meme? I'd say that Momiji works excellently as a Witchwolf Ordained Defender Warder. Unless you have a better class for her?
>>47443420
>what's the meme?You and your "awoo."
>>47443320
Nothing's wrong with being a Tengu guard dog.
>>47443394
As things stand, you get the Shapeshifter subtype, which allows you to add [Shifting] feats to your restricted bonus feat lists, yes. Being a playtest, if it creates too many issues things might change, but I don't personally think there would be any issues.
>>47443296
>Momiji
>Implying I'm not playing as Perrin Atbara or John Talbain
Jokes on you prey
>>47443073
I wouldn't worry about it.
>>47443420
Momiji fits better as an Agathion-Blooded Aasimar, since one's a celestial bloodline and the other's literally a Celestial Dog.
Without getting into 3pp, is there any class or multiclass that can result in "I can live under the ocean comfortably" at a reasonable level, say between 7th and 10th?
>>47443443
>>47443380
For both of these, I meant the shapechanger subtype, not shapeshifter. I always get that wrong (shapeshifter just sounds cooler, imo)
>>47443443
The first big problem that comes to mind is shapeshifter immunity to polymorph effects, which could be a pretty big thing in some games.
>>47443502
I'm 90% sure most people would relish an immunity to getting turned into a dog or mouse.
>>47443408
Holy hell that image is adorable.But she's a wolf! A WOLF!
>>47443480
Druid? Other than turning into an aquatic animal(or undead), I don't think you can live under ocean comfortably short of building an entire habitat there. Permanent water breathing might allow you to survive, and any caster with crafting feats and some gold can manage that, but that's a far cry from living comfortably.
>>47443480
There are races that can.
>>47443502
[citation needed]
As far as I can tell, shapechangers are immune to Baleful Polymorph. They are not immune to polymorph effects.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic#TOC-Transmutation
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/creature-types#subtype-shapechanger
If there's something outside both the subtype and the polymorphing rules that states it, it'd be great to see.
>>47443493
>>47443502
>>47443517
Shapechanger just let you count as a shapeshifter for prereqs i a pretty sure. You aren't really shapeshifter type with a trait.
>>47443572
Shapechanger subtype is a specific subtype that doesn't add much except for things that specifically interact with it.
>>47443517
There are positive polymorph effects too, and what fun/challenge is left if you start getting immunities to everything?
Might just be me though. I can't imagine any sense of accomplishment from playing PoW, same thing with full casters
>>47443531
Well the idea was a Wolf-Scarred Face oracle with the waves mystery, refluff the curse as shark face and tske a dip or multiclass to actually live in water. Vital strike with the bite of course.
>>47443628
There's no immunity. It's a myth.
>>47443628
You're not immune to it though. Some shapechangers can standard-action revert the effects of a polymorph, but it's not an immunity and not all of them can do so.
>>47443674
Ah, that's what I was thinking of. Thanks for remembering better than I did.
>>47442997
i wish we had stats for those were-velociraptors in that AP in the giant spaceship with the killer god AI.
Which disciplines can gain any sort of resistance to magic including things which operate similarly to iron heart surge?
>>47443838
Iron Tortoise, Riven Hourglass, Shattered Mirror, and I wanna say Fool's Errand all have elements of this. SM is the oddest to use of those, but [BIASED OPINION]pretty rewarding[/BIASED AF]
>>47443838
Riven Hourglass has Temporal Body Adjustment.
Scarlet Throne has Sanguine Perseverance.
>>47443285
By the way, in connection to this, has anyone got idea for renaming "Size Shift"? I'm still not happy with that name, but I'm drawing a blank on good ones.
>>47443797
What book do they show up in? I might be able to work something out.
>>47443882
What would you say is the most "anime" protagonist of those especially given that it's on a zwei sentinel warder?
>>47443954
Fool's Errand Fool's Errand Fool's Errand
>>47443928
Monstrous Growth?
>>47443320
HER SHIELD IS WRONG. IT IS SUPPOSED TO HAVE A MAPLE LEAF ON IT.
STOP POSTING IMPOSTERS.
>>47443973
Momiji of the East?
More like Momiji thecute. CUTE!
>>47443968
>>47443980
The problem I have with both of these is that Size Shift also allows you to shrink.
>>47443893
Temporal Body Adjustment feels like the dodgiest maneuver in all of PoW to me.
It's good that it was nerfed to be a bit more tightly defined than the playtest but I still see its way to just NOPE out of any negative condition at any time with no roll having the potential to annoy a lot of GMs.
It's a huge 'fuck you' to any attempts to do something to the player other than damage them.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/conditions
Even by a fairly strict RAW interpretation of it you can negate blinded, frightened, grappled, nauseated, energy drained, fatigued, helpless, unconscious, prone, or stunned.
And you don't even need the counter readied for a bunch of them, as long as you're still able to act you can just recover it and retroactively 'nope' out.
GMs will just give up trying to throw anything interesting at you and resort to beating on you with full attacks every turn.
>>47444036
Take a page out of Forrest's book and find a good pun for it.
>>47443998
i do not into dark soulsa former roommate ruined all the games for me, due to making thousands of 'different' characters - like a 'faith' character or a 'heavy weapon' character...and then playing them all the same way - run to dragon shrine, get infinite souls and use pyromancy to get through the game. Every character was played the same, no matter the build. I played enough of DaS1 to beat ornstein and smough, get the ornstein armor and then quit
>>47444036
Since the others also all have shift in the name, maybe something like Magnitude Shift.
>>47444049
It's the same as iron heart surge, all you need to do is remove the ability to take the action and they're screwed if it isn't readied.
Why is there another trip on here?
>>47444049
Fool's Errand has "fuck all of your immunities and protections, you're "notgrappled" now" that, used right, will autopin anyone, which unless you're fighting something with very deadly touch, is probably an instant win.
>>47444095
Except enemies can't always HAVE the ability to inflict those conditions.
>>47444099
It's the Lords of the Wild person, you silly billy, pay attention. And it's not like a tripcode is offensive to your delicate sensibilities anyway.
>>47444099
Because people can use tripcodes and that's just fine.
Don't whine because 'oh no someone is asserting some identity - no one should ever, ever do that'
>>47444095
It still encourages bad gameplay, because that leads to
>There is no way to inflict a medium level inconvenience on this character, I've got to either go all out and take them out of the fight for a few rounds, or do nothing
>>47444120
So we've turned into a personal advertising board for 3pps?
And my delicate sensibilities need velvet and lavender
>>47444108
Given that you have to roll a dispel check against it and make them fail TWO saves to pull that off, on top of needing to be in either the 3rd level or 8th level stance from FE... Yeah, that doesn't seem that bad.
>>47444087
Oh, I like that one. Many thanks, anon.
>>47443324
Ehh you should have done something for each lycanthrope desu. Growing midget wings does not sound cool at all.
>>47444120
If he is not currently talking about the product then he should not have a tripcode. There is no reason for it. At the moment he is fine, but plenty have been using /pfg/ to simply wear tripcode and talk.
>>47444145
When have we ever not been an advertising board? Even before DSP started paying attention to feedback here, we ranted and raved about them.
>>47444130
Yeah, Temporal Body Adjustment has the same problem that all martials have. In order to make it stop you have to make them worthless.
>>47444108Are you ladderguy
If you're talking about Make Them Humble, that's not so big a problem since it's specifically vs Freedom of Movement or similar effects: it doesn't work vs teleports or counters that just give you a really good reflex save.
>>47444071
The armor is pretty much exact expy of Shiva in DaS1 (sans shield and headwear). I wouldn't say it suits Momiji very well, always imagined her as leaning towards mobility and the armor is quite heavy.You're roomate a shit, make sure to don't make them you're waifu. SL1 or bust!
>>47444130
They're a martial, most of the time when they get hit with a debuff that isn't part of an attack it's because it was AoE. It's not game breaking unless the DM builds to lock down the party at some point for plot reasons.
>>47444145
>So we've turned into a personal advertising board for 3pps?
>HURR DURR SHILL SHILL SHILL
Personally I don't mind having whatever devs here. I'd rather not have to travel to some retard forum to try and interact with them. Fuck off.
>>47444174
You faggots will complain about anything. Who the fuck cares about 'improper' tripcode use? Are you the fucking board police? arbiter of 4chan?
No? Get fucked.
>>47444174
They why is complaining even happening?
He's here to talk about a thing he's working on, so by the bizzare laws governing the alleged 4chan etiquette, he's alright.
>>47443954
Fool's Errand.
For full Anime Protagonist, take Fool's Errand and Sleeping Goddess.
>>47444183
Yeah. In order to do what the guy's talking about, you need to:
>be in a stance that lets you grasp them (or have grasped them last turn)
>use a boost and dispel their Freedom of Movement
>make them fail a second reflex save
There's three die rolls to stop that, one of which is a coinflip in a best-case scenario if they've got Freedom of Movement. Any counters that move them away will also stop the first grasp, and anything that subs for saves will stop the second.
Snake Bite (which it was apparently renamed to when the style feat changed) is good for a takedown but you could be using any of the numerous other similar save or lose strikes. It doesn't even stop them from trying to use move actions to escape your grasp, even.
>>47444174
I normally am on the side of anti tripfags because they usually don't add anything related to the thread which this guy isn't doing. This in turn makes you a huge faggot.
>>47444145
We're a community that provides feedback to the people who make material for the game we play. Paizo wants to come in here and deal with our horseshit, they're welcome - I'd chat to Mark Seifter or even Wes Schneider without telling them they're cocksuckers any day.
Bulmahn can go directly to hell after this UE errata bullshit though.
Let buildposter and qanon, 2hu and others to keep using their trips as well
>>47444176
Temporal Body Adjustment makes it way worse.
Sickened, deafened, fatigued, etc, maybe even Blind, are all reasonably interesting penalties to place onto martials for a fight that hinder them noticeably but don't make them useless.
TBA just removes the possibility of any of those, unless the GM bullshits and says 'you have this penalty now but it doesn't count as a Condition so you can't remove it'.I guess if it's an environmental penalty that's justified but there's only so far you can stretch that
>>47444207
>You're roomate a shit
Yes, he was.he also cheated on my best friend with a 'straight guy' 'by accident' and claimed it was 'too hard' to get home from work at the same mall I biked to every day... when he was writing the fucking schedules at his work place. Also made me absolutely hate several other games whenever he tried to participate because he was just a genuinely fucking awful person
That said I was never really big on the dark souls series anyways. They're visually and aesthetically pleasing, and they tell a story in an interesting way via the constant tidbits, I just never really cared for the gameplay. It wasn't ever particularly hard, just designed to be an exercise in not-actually all that impeding frustration, because death means very little so they can be 'unfair' to the player.
>>47444260
I wouldn't mind having a casual, friendly chat with JJ, if I'm honest.
He just seems to be a simple man with simple pleasures. He likes his CG characters, and that's fine. Let him write the CG-ish adventures, and leave the other ones to other writers.
>>47444262
2hu never uses a trip as far as I'm aware, and buildposter's namefagging makes him easier to filter.
What do you think the best low cost magic items are? Stuff like the Sleeves of Many Garments.
>>47444167
It was considered at one point. Actually, the template was originally designed to cover wolf, bear, tiger, and boar (the four Weapons of the Beast options). It was decided fairly early on to cut the focus back to werewolves, with general lycanthropy and shapeshifterism being a backdrop, similar to Lords of the Night having a focus on vampires with an undead backdrop
Would you a knife ear?
>>47444213
>No? Get fucked.
Christ you sound fucking insufferable.
>>47444222
Yeah, a lot of folks use it for vanity on /pfg/.
>>47444249
As I just said, he at the moment is fine. I was just saying there are plenty on /pfg/ who use trips for vanity.
>>47444349
>>47444360
>Christ you sound fucking insufferable.
Says the person complaining about incredibly petty things (omg he used a TRIPCODE) on the internet.
>>47444307
Same.
JJ is a lame weirdo with a CG Waifu boner, but he doesn't seem like a genuinely awful person.
He knows what he likes, and that's that.
>>47444360
>A lot of /pfg/ use it for Vanity.
Nnnnno they don't.
Buildposter uses a name for vanity, I'll give you that. Buildposter is also reviled for reasons unrelated to that.
QANON only uses a trip when she needs to, and the others are just Devs, who its good to know who they are and that they're present so questions can be asked and feedback delivered.
I haven't used a trip in ages either, but that's pretty much just because I've fallen off the homebrew wagon. Should have something soon though.
Regardless, someone having a tripcode is hardly going to kill you.
>>47444349
Not a fake knife ear
An actual one maybe though.I could totally get with a super-subby drow, make her wear thick blindfolds all day to protect her eyes from the light and make her even more reliant on me. deny her the use of her hands and even more magical realm shenanigans.
>>47444365
I recognize that elf.
How do I make pic related?
>>47444212
>They're a martial, most of the time when they get hit with a debuff that isn't part of an attack it's because it was AoE.
>a debuff that isn't part of an attack
Not sure why you dismiss that when one of its big problems is how it invalidates about 70% of strikes that sacrifice damage in favor of battlefield control.
I wouldn't say Temporal Body Adjustment is gamebreaking, it's just really annoying. I feel no other single maneuver requires the GM to make as big a change to how they design every encounter as TBA.
(Sanguine perfection is also pretty bad but it has less out of combat uses because it suppresses rather than negates. I don't know why TBA didn't get an explicit allowed list in the same way though)
>>47444307
>>47444386
I like JJ as a person and think he'd make a great fa/tg/uy, so I think one day he should make a visit here honestly.
>>47444444
>sexts
alright I'll bite. Who is that though, and why is she tearing a bear in half?
>>47444449
I was actually just trying to say it isn't broken, just annoying. It's not like it has errata stating that it explicitly protects vampires from sunlight like IHS.
>>47444269
Problem is, all of those are just as hard, if not sometimes harder (lower spell level for blindness compared to domination) to land than complete SoLs.
So, yes, TBA locks out those soft controls, but but without it, you're one failed save from murdering your party and sucking the oracle's transman cock.
>>47443838
Playing a character who focuses on Riven Hourglass, Fool's Errand, and Shattered Mirror I can back up what everyone is saying about you being very resistant to magic(part of it is that people are scared to target you with magic if they know your abilities). You aren't a slouch against straight attacks either with Fool's Errand(especially if it's one on one you can wreck fools)
>>47444503
She's a Full Moon Lunar Exalt trying to get her Solar senpai to notice her.
I really want to play in a low level game, but every game I get into from /tg/ or /pfg/ is absolutely horrid. I get my fix for high level adventure through my in person group but am missing the shank alley slog.
Is it just a product of the kind of people who need to come to /pfg/ to search for a group, or what? It's be six separate games and they're all horseshit for various reasons.
I'm honestly would start thinking it's me, but most of the people really are just that intolerable.It comes down a lot for GMs with no game structure or thought put into a campaign, and ones who bend over backwards for the player's every whim. This coupled with players who play fetish/meme characters in games that they at least originally seemed to not be meant for add up to at least me not having any fun
>>47444449
You're really taking that complaint too far.
For a very simple reason:
You get ONE TBA.
At most two with lightning recovery or something.
And even then you'll never get a second one on the same turn, assuming you can even have a second one this encounter.
So all it means is, given the existence of TBA...
That wizard MAY have to pack THREE Save-Or-FUCKED spells, instead of the TWO he was initially stocking just in case people make their saves.
And there's already equipment and shit that renders folks immune to certain conditions anyways, so it's not like this was never a consideration.
>>47444049
It's also strictly better than IHS.
Seriously, go back to ToB and read IHS again. It's actually not that strong since it's 1) a standard action and 2) only works on effects that last for more than 1 round. If someone casts Hold Person on you and his friend does a CdG, IHS isn't going to save your ass. Unconscious? Can't use that standard action. Staggered for 1 round? Too bad, you're sucking it up for that round. The only reason people even remember it now is because of that fucktarded errata that lets you evaporate oceans.
TBA lets you just "nope" out of everything as it happens, which is way stronger.
>>47444614
Oh. There's no hope for you.
No seriously. I don't mean that as an insult, even.
You want to play in a low level pathfinder game.
It is naturally rusty-shanky as fuck, already all over the place for balance, bound not to last long at ALL (you either get out of those levels or you ALL DIE)...
So, it kinda takes a very... special kind of person to want to do this constantly, and a lot of people who want low level adventure are quickly going to look elsewhere. Not as in "groups" but as in "systems"
>>47443320
One more chink name to add to the filtered posts list.
>>47444617
>You get ONE TBA.
For a zealot you get one every round if you really feel like it.
>>47444629
Out of just one.
If a second anything happens that turn, well, too bad.
>>47444651
I don't even need the rusty shank slog. I am perfectly willing to play up to level 5 and have gone to that point and see no difference. If anything at level 5 it grows worse than level 1 because characters have less options to try and bully a GM into letting them have.
>>47444614
If you want rusty shanktown adventures then you play 5e, really.
Everyone on /pfg/ is jaded with pathfinder and recognises that the best way to have fun with it is to take advantage of its zany complex systems for silly animepower shenanigans.
And that's not a bad thing, but it's explicitly not what you're looking for: 5e, on the other hand, caters to that more.
>>47443973
Is Momoji Canadian?
>>47444715
I can give her some canadian citizenship, if you know what I mean.
>>47444727
Does it come with a healthy dose of maple syrup?
>>47444715
We've discussed this. Canada is a lawful good plane, though it does have a fair share of hazards. Momiji is very lawful good. It's entirely possible.
But we're pretty sure she actually isn't.
>>47444715
Yes. That's why she's so adorable like all canadians.
>>47444617
>>47444675
You're missing my point.
It's GOOD that you can nope out of things that would take you out of the fight entirely. Conditions like that are bad design in a game where a player needs to wait like 10 minutes between turns only to be told they can't do anything again.
It's bad because this also prevents the GM from slapping you with anything intermediate, and therefore the only ways they have to keep you in check are to facemaul you with damage or actively try to use Save-or-Dies twice per round just to fuck you over.
And it's also bad design to encourage those.
>>47444698
>Everyone on /pfg/ is jaded with pathfinder and recognises that the best way to have fun with it is to take advantage of its zany complex systems for silly animepower shenanigans.
I hate zany animepower shenanigans. I hate the fact that every time I join a group someone is a teleporting katana wielding halfdragon (this actually happened) or a sapient mudball (this happened too) or a hyper sexualized goblin multi-armed alchemist (this also happened). I just want a normal game with semi-normal characters. I'm even willing to cut out 9 level casters to give a better semblance of balance.
I don't particularly like PoW for a lot of reasons (and not because I don't want martials having nice things, it seems every time I bring this up the first reaction is to shout that I have some personal vendetta against martials). I just want a core tiers 5-3 game.
My in person group hardly every meets as well at this point due to me having to move cities. It's just tiring trying to dig through games on /pfg/.
>>47444769
Everything you have just said practically screams 'play 5e instead', anon.
Seriously, that's not a criticism. I play some 5e and I like it. And what you're asking for is exactly what that system does better than PF.
>>47444746
... I don't know.
No one ever tells me what I mean.
>>47444799
Not him, but the thing I don't like about 5e is the lack of content compared with pathfinder. Pathfinder has loads of classes, feats, abilities to choose from whereas it feels like you have less flexibility in 5e or at least any choice is hard-limited to a small number of options.
>>47444799
The issue is I don't like 5e that much either. Sure 5e is more balanced simply due to the restricted amount of content, but is still imbalanced.
I like the variety of characters PF's mechanics support. I dislike many of the mechanics but enjoy their vastness. 5e is a much more restricted set, and in my mind nearly as bad of a set.
So I don't know. Perhaps I should, but I doubt it will save me from the problem of the kinds of players come from /tg/ (I have tried 5e online once between and got a similar group, haven't tried since but that may be bad luck).
>>47444863
>I like pathfinder better because of how much variety it gives
>Waaah others players have too much variety
Well, shit. Best of luck.
>>47444747
Momiji is Lawful Neutral, she's a guardswoman for capricious Tengu.
>>47444752
Really, the main problem you have then, and I'll admit I share such a sentiment, is that 'controls' in RPGs are too binary.
Rather, they should be soft and stacking.
Not Paraylze, but increasing 'slowness' until you're effectively stopped.
Not "SAVE OR DIE" poisons which everyone and their mother (and their mother's purse's nanny's left testicle's showdog) is immune to because if they weren't they'd be dead from far weaker poisons long ago. "Damage" poisons, with multiple doses increasing the frequency, if not so much the actual effect.
Not "complete mental domination forever", but increasing suggestibility as one slowly adds factors like "counts as an ally for buffs", "will not avoid affecting if squares can be selected" and so on start building up into a near total dominion.
In this way resistances could simply require additional applications: One may not be immune, but if you have a threshold of 1 before they can start applying on the 2nd, AND you have another protection making each two successful ones count as one for purposes of stacking up beyond that... They should try something else.
>>47444883
That's not so much my issues with other players. My issues are characters who are clearly fetish bait, made to be disruptive, or made to overpower games. I enjoy PF's variety in mechanics.
In that way it is not so much the game's fault as the players.
>>47444933
Sounds like you need to find a decent group then.
>>47444909
So you basically want a system like Unchained Poisons, but applied to debuff spells. The only issue I see there is that then you have the possibility of needing to keep track of half a dozen different stacking effects.Also like half of those effects you listed are poisons that exist, but TBA also just instantly removes those
Hypothetical situation
A glabrezu offers the party a wish, trying to out smart the demon knowing it will try to twist their words the party makes their wish like this.
"I wish my wish would not be granted."
What happens?
>>47444973
The Glabrezu gives you a look and asks for another wish. The party isn't the one making the wish in a case like that, the /demon/ is. You basically have to assume that he'll translate it literally, in good faith, but stuff like that probably isn't gonna fly in-character.
>>47444933
This. Even having conjuration wizards and DPS arcane archers is acceptable if the players aren't arseholes.
>>47444973
If the party can take it, I'd suggest "I wish you'd die" instead, and take advantage of your surprise round.
>>47444973
The glabrezu gets pissed off and attacks. They directly insulted it's intelligence by asking a paradoxical wish, thinking it was some short of machine incapable of rational thought.
>>47444973
The demon interprets the vague "my wish" as "a wish I specifically have" rather than "the wish I'm making now." Whatever was motivating them is now lost.
>>47444991
OK, what about a bound genie? The magic that bounds him compels it to cast the wish.
>>47444973
I don't think glabrezu are obligated to grant smartass wishes. And being a smartass to some unholy creature's face is typically asking for a fight.
Random question is there a book devoted to the manawastes yet?
>>47445014
And if the wording is change to "this wish"
>On a whim, try statting up a kineticist because one would be rather on-theme as an NPC boss for a campaign I'm running
>In the time I could have made four other NPCs I'm not even half done
Most of Mark Seifter's ideas that I've seen have been good ones, but what the fuck was he THINKING with how over-complicated this class is for what it does?
>>47445018
He wishes for this guy's wish to not be granted. As this is not a safelist wish, it's in the hands of the GM to twist positively or negatively.
I would probably rule that it starts causing the PC's luck to go south, as the world twists to cause their wishes and hopes to not come true.
>>47444973
This >>47445014
>>47444973
Why did you bother is the question, you could just say "I wish you didn't offer me any more wishes" or something if you really didn't want to take it.
>>47445018
Typically if you try to be clever with a genie it will backfire, such as this situation where nothing happens but since it did what you asked you are now the genie's slave for a year and a day.
Hope you like harem pants, smartass.
>>47445056
It isn't all that complicated, you just need to know exactly what you want from the beginning. The real issue is making one that doesn't suck ass.
>>47445090That was the plan
>>47444956
TBA's impact would be lessened by that very system change, though. You're either taking those penalties for an increasing amount of time so you can remove the 'stack', OR you're removing one or two when the plan was to put 5-6 on you.
>>47444973
The demon is now tasked - honor-bound he says - to seek out divination magic in finding out the previous time the character said "I wish [anything]" in his life, because that's the only not-retarded context if the demon was only offering one wish here. THEN he makes sure it doesn't happen.
>>47445056
It was to be versatile and quite capable in exchange for that complexity.
Then his bosses/editors got their hands on it; they'd smelled unvancian heresy from miles away, and had come to ensure their justice.
>>47445104
I'm not 100% sure on what you mean here. If it's a stacking debuff that requires multiple casts, it now takes 5-6 spells to do something and that's a lot of turns and spells used for really not a whole lot, and in the mean time the initiator has killed the caster that spenr 6 turns trying to build up to Charm Person. If it's a spell that just slowly ticks up, TBA can just remove the spell when it's starting out and you can recover it in the mean time.
>>47444973
I'd instead wish for the glabrezu to convert to the worship of my lawful good deity.
See how he likes that.
>>47444973
Luckily I have maxed ranks in profession barrister. I am almost surely a far better lawyer than it is. It can just fucking try to worm its way out of my wordplay.
>>47445165
It only works if you are a little girl and sign a contract for one wish only.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJQxhCO242w
>>47445181
Devils are literal genies. Demons are just fucking assholes.
He'll probably grant a wish and then drop a fucking meteorite on you because you didn't wish for that to not happen.
>>47445193
Exactly what I was going for.
That game was pretty ridiculous to actually play, but the storylines it had were great - angels committing sins, xanatos gambits to get greater demons/devils to convert to the worship of god.
Mephistopheles himself teaching demonology at no cost.
Time paradoxes.
>>47444769
>I just want a core tiers 5-3 game.
You are either an idiot, or you don't understand how Tiers interact.
For what you want, I HIGHLY recommend a completely different system, preferably one that doesn't suffer from issues with Tiers and the like.
It sounds a lot like you would be better suited for something like Barbarians of Lemuria or a similar system more geared for Swords & Sorcerery, which Pathfinder is explicitly not suited for.
Plus, even then, regardless of systems you will till suffer from wierdos, fetish builds, power fantasies, and other things. This is not a problem that is Pathfinder or 3pp exclusive, its with the tabletop community and the nature of playing on the internet with random, regardless of the system.
>>47445412
>Swords & Sorcerery, which Pathfinder is explicitly not suited for.
Now this is where I call bullshit. Pathfinder cant do a lot of things, but Sword and Sorcery is something pathfinder can do.
>>47445465
eh, not really. In my experience, most Sword and Sorcery fantasy has warriors able to contribute alongside wizards, not being utterly obsoleted by them.
Oh, and being a gish is like always the single most broken thing ever.
>>47444973
The glabrezu appears to do nothing, but later on you find a wand of wishing with 1 charge, and it's a dud.
>>47445489
That's why you ban Wizards, Clerics, etc or make them NPC only. Restrict "casters" to Psionic classes and the Alchemist and encourage PoW characters.
The +1 sword isn't a magic weapon, it's an incredibly fine blade forged by a famous smith.
>tfw DM is talking crazy talk since he's in his last quarter of college.
>tfw He's talking about running a campaign where players start at 21st level.
>tfw 10th level spells.
>>47445597
Those aren't actually a thing outside of metamagic.
>>47445489
Everything is more balanced at the lower levels though, which is explicitly what op was after
>>47445620
Anon, we know you're dumb, but cmon here.
>>47445623
yes, balanced around everyone dying from a stern glance. By the time "orc with an axe" stops being a threat, that balance is gone. And by "orc with an axe", I mean a level 1 orc barbarian with a greataxe. Because crits ruin everything.
>>47445664
Why should an Orc with an axe stop being something actually threatening?
>>47445680
did you read the part where i explained that i was referring to a level 1 orc barbarian? aka literally the mook orcs in LotR.
>>47445664
PF is still "high power" fantasy though as compared to the "lower power" fantasy of 5e
>>47445664
Come on now, you are being silly. Orcs with an axe are not a problem.
Its the falchions man. The goddamn falchions,
>>47443277
Let's take this outside.
>>47445772
The falchions are more consistently going to ruin your day, but the axes will ruin your day for longer because of the extra damage ceiling. 3d12+27 hurts at a lot more levels than 4d4+18
>>47445643
Link 10th level spells. I would like to see. I remember them being a thing in 3.5, but not pathfinder.
>>47444973
Even magic can't prevent what that pony did, I'm sorry.
>>47445772
Bullshit. High crit range weapons deal consistent damage, but it's much more hard to deal with a sudden spike in damage - which does happen eventually, a luxury of the world vs the player. A group of NPCs with scythes is a bunch of low-chance rolls for *instant death* that I'd trade away in a heartbeat for just opponents with markedly higher average DPR.
>>47445830
Same systems, man.
>>47445664
Man I love using orc barbarians.
>open field
orc barbarians with haste
>forest
orc barbarians with tree stride
>city
orc barbarians with urban step
>underground
orc barbarians with earthglide
>underwater
orc barbarians with water breathing
>sky
orc barbarians with fly
There is literally no situation where orc barbarians aren't relevant.
>>47445927
PF =/= 3.5
Yes PF is essentially an enormous set of 3.5 houserules, but it isn't 3.5.
>>47445936
Social situations
>>47445947
orc barbarians with ensemble
Literally every situation.
I have a question about how to proceed with PrC when you are a gestalt spellcaster or initiator.
So you know how Initiating Prestige Classes add to a previous initiator level? Well, when you're gestalt, you can keep advancing that level at the same time. Do they stack?
IE: 5 Warlord/5 Cleric | 5 Warlord/5 Battle Templar
What's your effective initiator level?
Or, everytime you advance in Battle Templar (except for 1 and 10), you advance spells, as if you just gained a level in a previous spellcasting class (pretty standard PrC).
Do you essentially gain 2 levels in the caster class for each one level?
IE: 5 Cleric/Warlord | 5 Cleric/Battle Templar
Are you effectively a 14th level Cleric because you levelled cleric alongside a class that added onto it simultaneously?
Thanks in advance.
>>47445945
It is literally 3.5 with a minor amount of houserules.
>>47445980
And awful ones at that
>>47445980
It used to be, but it really isn't at this point.
>>47445955
This is like something off Doc Aquatic's encounter table.
>Threat of orc musical ensemble.
>>47445956
There's an advisement in gestalt about not allowing theurge/gish classes. this is why. Otherwise you could go Wizard 20//Fighter10/EK 10 and be effectively Wizard 30
Path of War quite frequently has conflicting damage types in the Silver Crane section.
I had originally chalked it up to the PFSRD being generally shit with PoW stuff, but I have the PDF now, and it's there too.
Essentially, in the maneuver summary it'll frequently say 'Xd6 of sacred damage' but in the full description it'll say 'Xd6 of damage'.
Is there errata for this? Corrections?
>>47445980
Not at this point, no. PF has changed quite a bit.
>>47446027
>>47446052
They're still awful rules
>>47446027
>>47446052
Go ahead and list the fundamental changes, fucbois.
>>47446033
I can understand the 'class combination' part like AT or EK, but this isn't even that. It could be just a basic spellcasting PrC.
I mean, it's simple enough to rule away: No, they don't stack together. Because they're added simultaneously, you have two separate effective classes for maneuvers/spellcasting.
IE, Example A up there is a 10th level Initiator for the purpose of gaining Warlord Maneuvers, and a 10th level Initiator for the purpose of gaining Battle Templar Maneuvers.
Example B: May be a little trickier, but I suppose you would just get the spells for 10th level Cleric twice.
>>47446087
Burden of proof. You made the first assertion, you list the similarities and then I'll refute them as necessary.
>>47446078
They can be, no question there. the excellent 3pp community fixes that to some extent, though.
>>47445830
There were no 10th-level spells in 3.5 outside of metamagic. Epic Spells /counted/ as 10th-level spells, but were not "spells" mechanically.
Damn son
>>47446143
>>47446143
Fucking Nightshades.
Man, I was really worried about fighting these guys in one campaign. We had three nightwings coming at us once. The GM didn't really use their channel energy spam all that much, though.
>>47446117
>They can be, no question there. the excellent 3pp community fixes that to some extent, though.
What are you talking about? The vast majority of 3pp is just as bad or worse than paizo.
Can you use a swift action kinetic blade as well as a full attack action kinetic blade to effectively use two for purposes of TWF? The wording is somewhat clear on the subject, but I honestly don't see why not - the 3/4 BaB and the generally terrible option of being a kineticist work against it already.
>>47446246
That's a subjective opinion. I, for one, like the vast majority of things that Radiance House and Dreamscarred Press release. sure, there's a few stinkers (Rogue Genius Games comes to mind) but even they have a few good things to them.
>>47446117
Skills are fundamentally the same, the only major changes being the consolidation which is easy to fix, and the amount at first level which again is easy to fix.
99% of feats are the exact same shit, what few changes exist are small and simple.
Spells are overall the same. Only major changes are Polymorph spells, and to a lesser extent SoD/SoS stuff.
Classes are generally not massively different. Things got added, but it's still compatible either 1:1 or with minor changes.
Items and pricing are pretty much the exact same.
Special materials are the same.
Traits were added, but it's a reworked version from 3.5, same goes for Drawbacks.
So, you want to actually show where the systems differ drastically, or are you just gonna claim shit and not back it up because "le burden of proof meme" and the fact that you don't have a fucking leg to stand on?
>>47446268
>Rogue Genius Games
What? They produce some fairly good shit, man.
>>47446306
Rogue genius is 50 good, 50% absolutely haram.
>>47446324
*bokoup haramSorry, that was a french joke on a terrorist organization
What're people's opinions on LPJ?
>>47446306
SOME being the key word here. Some is good, some is shit and that kind of inconsistency tends to land them on my shit list for 3PPs. Same with Kobold Press, though it's been a lot more garbage than gold from them as of late.
>>47446284
>Skills are fundamentally the same, the only major changes being the consolidation which is easy to fix, and the amount at first level which again is easy to fix.
That was for familiarity purposes, and the for the fact that the 3.5 system was already fairly comprehensive. they also changed out the stupid "ranks = level +3" thing that often confused newbies, which was a good change.
>99% of feats are the exact same shit, what few changes exist are small and simple.
And now there's a large volume of feats that did not and do not exist in 3.5 that allow for different setups. sure, it started off the same, but there's too many differences now to say they're the same thing anymore. Same system, different rate of acquisition, different feats to choose from a lot of the time. the Metamagic list is probably one of the better ones to compare with.
>Spells are overall the same. Only major changes are Polymorph spells, and to a lesser extent SoD/SoS stuff.
Yeah, and it's irksome that they're the same. We lack a lot of the problem spells though, including shit like Spell Engine. We have a much different list here.
>Classes are generally not massively different. Things got added, but it's still compatible either 1:1 or with minor changes.
Sure, but now we have a shitload of different classes. Where's 3.5s Witch? Alchemist? Where do I go for Pathfinder's Dragonfire Adept or Dread Necromancer?
>Items and pricing are pretty much the exact same.
Yeah, fair.
>Special materials are the same.
Once again, fair.
>Traits were added, but it's a reworked version from 3.5, same goes for Drawbacks.
I disagree. They're NOT just skill boosts and skill penalties anymore.
>So, you want to actually show where the systems differ drastically
no, I don't. My assertion is that they started off the same, and became different. You have yet to refute that, as the only things that have stayed the same are the things that were in core. and Burden of Proof is a real things, not a "meme".
>>47446171
Izzat Iomedae and her pet Gold?
>>47446404
Looks like her.
Though this might be pre divinity. I can't imagine her Gold is so small, or that those undead/fiends could pretty much exist in her presence otherwise.
>>47446397
>Feats
Except it's still fully compatible and you can add shit from 3.5 with either zero or extremely little tweaking in the majority of cases.
>Spells
3.5 had a lot of good spells that have yet to be reprinted, and thus make for good inclusions in PF. I mean good, not broken. Useful shit, stuff that fills a role well, but not something excessively powerful.
>Classes
You port the 3.5 ones. Here, I'll even give you the port for the Dread Necromancer.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?353181-Dread-Necromancer-Pathfinder-update-%28WIP%29
>Traits/drawbacks
Still fundamentally the same idea. "Here's a minor bonus/penalty" type things, not quite on the level of a feat.
>Spelling mistakes and refusing to actually make a point
Well, it's a shame that you're retarded. At least actual people might see the posts, and realize that yes, 3.5 is literally 99% compatible with PF with barely any changes at all, unless you're either actually autistic, retarded, or cripplingly afraid of good ideas.
>>47446390
Kobold Press has turned into a major joke. I've especially given up any hope I had for them after the Trickster incident.
>>47446377
LPJ?
>>47446471
So, what you're saying now is that it's similar enough to be backwards compatible, which it has been billed as previously, and agreeing with me that it doesn't include a lot of the shit you like from 3.5
And you also proved my point about third party products by linking the Dread Necro link! Thanks, I really appreciate that. Very kind.
I'm done now - you can keep ragging on if you like, but I've said my piece, proved my point, and you're just trying to double down. I'm not going to bother. Have fun.
>>47446508
LPJ design
>>47446476
>Trickster incident
The what now? Storytime?
>>47446523
I'm saying, and have always said, that they're the same damn thing. It's compatible except in extremely rare cases.
And who gives a shit if it's third party? Content is content.
If you're going to try and have a discussion, at least learn how to do it, you filthy nigger.
>>47446467
I dunno man. She has a fucking LE haunt in her divine goddamn realm that she hasnt done fuck all about. Which can only de destroyed once a certain group of cultists is removed from the area. Reminder said area is HER DIVINE REALM.
>>47446533
Not really much of a story to tell. Kobold released a massively OP class which was cobbled together like Frankenstein from popular 3.5 classes (beguiler, spellthief, etc.). After an initial slew of 5 star reviews (that I can only assume came from KP employees because nobody with a brain would give it higher than a 3), there were a bunch of 1 star reviews citing all the things that were wrong with it (poor balance, short, unimaginative) and KP essentially whined until Paizo deleted the negative reviews because it might negatively impact their sales (read: people might not buy their bad products).
>>47446363Hilarant !
>>47446377
If you mean Loius Porter Junior, it's shit. He's a fucking retard who screws his writer into accepting pay that's like 1/4 the industry standard.
>>47446476
That's a letdown. I liked their Deep Magic, the Iounmancer was real cool.
>>47446590
The thing you haven't seemed to realize is that we're not even discussing the same thing.
And resorting to insults because you can't properly refute my points? Not exactly good debating skills.
>>47446594
Wow. That's a real shit move there. Sure as shit, Kobold Press has lost my business.
>>47446042
It should be sacred damage which does 1.5x damage to evil creatures.
>>47446613
Back to Uganda, shitskin.
>>47446654
Thanks for proving another of my points! Have a nice day.
How are you supposed to beat the stag lord in kingmaker? Apparently he has a level 7 ranger with him and 4 level 5 bandits.
>>47446669
He's like, permanently drunk or something that tanks his stats.
I don't remember him how he's written, cause our GM made him an initiator. What's your group composition?
>>47446669
Lateral thinking
>>47446669
Why are you looking ahead, bitch?
>>47446669
My group got the help of the local kobold tribe to make his castle sink with him in it.
>>47445412
>Wants a core tiers 5-3 game.
>You are either an idiot, or you don't understand how Tiers interact.
You must be talking about yourself then.
>>47446669
From my understanding, he's a) drunk off his ass, making him weaker, and b) multiclassed pretty poorly, so none of his abilities (except being an HP sponge) are too high. That said, I wouldn't actually know, since my group never actually beat him. When he thought we dropped him, he got right back up again until he was killed by a DMPC, so I'm honestly not sure of anything surrounding him.
>>47445489
Don't project your shitty experiences onto the system that's your GM's fault (or yours), all of this caster supremacy nonsense only ever shows up when you have a GM who does not know what he's doing.
This "caster supremacy" comes from sheer theory alone in almost all cases.
I have a player who is great at role playing and getting into character but shuts down when presented with mechanical options.
How do I start them down the path to system mastery?
How do I GM a solo game to help them build confidence playing pathfinder?
>>47446930
>>47445489
The dedicated gish class in PF, the magus, is 3/4 BAB and can't get into 9th level spells
>>47447003
Yes, that's what he's saying. That in Sword and Sorcery, being able to magic + sword is OP as fuck. Not so in Pathfinder.
>>47447017
How exactly does a swords and sorcery setting require someone having both to be OP?
>>47447017
The magus in PF is actually comparatively well designed and balanced
It just needs access to manuveres
>>47447069
>In my experience, most Sword and Sorcery fantasy has warriors able to contribute alongside wizards, not being utterly obsoleted by them.
>Oh, and being a gish is like always the single most broken thing ever.
He's saying that the above is genre conventions of Sword and Sorcery. Pathfinder has neither of those things (casters are significantly better, and gishes are not strong).
>>47447105
Depends what kind of wizards you play with.
Also, I dispute the 'gishes need to be OP' statement.
>>47447069
No, like.. S&S settings usually have dudes who're godlike at swords OR godlike at magic. Then there's one guy who's godlike at BOTH and he's unstoppable.
>>47447191
'One guy' means he's an outlier and should not have been counted. You'd wanna look at the average sword+magic guy, not a statistical improbability.
>>47447137
Not so much they need to be, more the point this anon made
>>47447191
it just kind of happens. When there are 2 routes to power (blade and spell), people who master one are strong. You master both? you're basically a god on earth
>>47446930
I just left a session with a very sad Fighter player who had nothing useful to do in combat, roleplay, puzzle-solving, or travel in a session with a large and deliberately open variety of ways to solve the problems including combat. Sorcerer rolled high initiative, ended the encounter outright. Bard prevented another encounter entirely. Bard and sorcerer BOTH flexed their Intimidate muscles to get information out of a badguy after Fighter rolled low with his considerably lower bonuses. Magus nearly solo'd a Drake and with help from Sorcerer blasting, got it to surrender before the Fighter could roll high enough to do damage.
What do I do, put a mechanical arm-wrestling machine beside the next locked door in a dungeon with a sign that says "TEST YOUR BAB HERE"? I can't force them to make the Fighter useful. Against hordes of weak enemies, solo strong enemies, or a few medium enemies, it's all the same: he's not getting much opportunity to shine in combat because of the casters, and the game isn't 100% combat so he's sitting out for the rest anyway.
>>47447273
Are you the GM? Give us more about your character creation rules.
>>47447239
That's the thing though, there ISN'T an average sword and magic guy. In these settings, it tends to be one or the other, never both. And then one guy breaks the rules.
>>47446591
Wait, where is this from?
>>47447362
Can I get some examples of this? I cant recall any off the top of my head.
>>47447424
Heaven Unleashed, if I recall.
>>47446591
>in her Divine Realm
It's just a small church, not an area of Heaven itself, and she's not going to mess with any of Aroden-senpai's leftovers like that.
>>47446626
In all cases?
>Reiterating since it's late.
Path of War's Silver Crane says some damage is sacred damage in summary, but drops 'sacred' for the full description. Several times. Are they all sacred?
>>47447336
Nothing abnormal. They'd already rolled stats before I took over (and I leveled them up using average HP).
Fighter's race is Tiefling and rolled an absurd spread probably ranging somewhere close to 40 point buy, with two 17s and two ~15s and no true weak stats. He's not a skilled player, but none of them are.
>>47447648
I know it's been beaten like a dead horse here, but have you considered Path of War?
>>47446930
>>47447668
Yeah I greatly prefer playing PoW. If I play a new campaign with this group again I'll teach them, but I wasn't DMing them at character creation so it was a bit late. I just thought my last session was one of the most severe examples of the caster-martial disparity that I've ever seen, which was the topic at hand.
>>47447732
Are you letting him use Weapon Master Handbook stuff? Smacking aside some spells or ballista shots like it aint no thang should cheer him up.
>>47447732
Slowly retrain him?
It'd be a good way to start Path of War, and you can do the 'Old kung-fu' master route where he retrains the fighter.
Going from d10 to d12 HD; getting a new stance; learning a few maneuvers, then getting a recovery, then getting a few more maneuvers could prove to be a very interesting character building arc as well as a good way of introducing them to the system.
>>47447774
I am directing him that way, yeah. He's not taking me up on offers to let him retrain but at least let me persuade him to take Power Attack while he swings his big axe. I don't want to take control of his character customization against his will because ultimately that freedom is one of the strengths of the system.
