>there are some millennials on sp who unironically think that messi is better than based Diego
But grandpa, he is
Why do people obsess over these scrubs, iniesta is the true GOAT
But he is.
Maradona >>>>>>> Messi
The whiny systembabby would beg to get subbed off after 10 minutes of being kicked at and pushed around by late 80s Serie A defenders
>>69237642
>Xavi
Fixed that for you.
But he is
Paolo Rossi
>Carry Italy to a WC (beating Maradona's Argentina and Socrates/Zico Brazil)
>Win multiples serie A
>Win the CL
>win the Ballon d'or
Why isn't he considered the GOAT when he has all the arguments they use with Maradona? And a CL.
>>69237474
>drug addict
>smug fatty
>cheater
Wew, lad..
ill just wait for any trophies messi has won without barca carrying him
oh wait there is none
>>69237474
>le drug addict roids maffia man
fuck off
>>69238064
better than le no sticky man
>>69237474
>0 CLs man
>better than the GOAT
nope.jpg
>messi is a system baby
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=603JM1adqRA
how is the system helping here? if he would wear a racing santander shirt in those situation, he would score anyway
>>69237474
Talent wise Messi edges out Maradonna. Killer instinct wise, Maradonna eats Messi's lunch all day.
Messi's international failure have been due to his 'lets play team futbol' instead of the 'just give me the damn ball' mentality - see Aguero/Higuain bombing shots outside the area in the last international tourney.
>>69238503
>unironically posting Youtube highlights
While you're at it, type in "Maradona" and you'll see more impressive stuff. No one is claiming Messi is shit, but it's a fact he's been carried by star stuffed team for the entirety of his carreer and never proved himself outside of his comfort zone.
>>69238084
he got a sticky though
Fatnaldo is the GOAT
>>69237855
because he's not shilled by FIFA like Pelè, Maradroga and Missi
>>69238503
I'm glad he's afraid to do that against Medel & Co.
>>69237855
>and Socrates/Zico Brazil
The ref did that tbf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bctRrchKspo
>>69238926
Imagine Messi playing against Gentile top kek
He would ragequit the match after 15 minutes
>>69238771
How did he end up in such a good team? He wasnt born in a Barca team or won it in lottery.
He earned that spot and he became Barcelona's best player even, and Barcelona isn't Norwich.
And for all you tards what is prooving himself if not make it to 3 straight international finals in 3 years in row?
And if I want to see impressive skills I would rather watch Ronaldinho yt highlights.
No one will top Maradona
>>69239001
Pepe and Ramos are probably worse
>>69239098
making the Copa America final is impressive now? didn't Paraguay reach one without winning a single match?
>>69239131
I don't think so, Gentile was harsh even for his times
>>69239149
Which is quite ironic, considering his name.
symptom of being GOAT: people know your middle name
diego armando maradona
luis nazario de lima
lionel ??? messi
>>69239149
what other than the world cup would be
we're watching a Euros that saw Iceland make it to the semis and a grand "smackdown" between Portugal and Wales on the other side
>>69238926
What did the ref do wrong there? Booked Gentile for the tackle on the ball? :^)
>>69239001
Yeah, it's not like Messi never faced aggressive defenders or was fouled off the game. Even in the video posted above, there wasn't anything extraordinary in terms of aggressiveness from Gentile.
>b-but he ripped Zico's shirt :^)
>I think a player who I have never, ever seen play outside of youtube is the best player ever
*takes fedora off and sends it flying like a frisbee*
>>69239098
Once again, read more carefully this time: no one disputed Messi's talent, but his ability to take responsibility and carry the team instead of being heavily supported by world class players he grew up playing with, in the same system all his life. Are you going to unironically claim NT Messi is the same quality as club Messi? He's 100% dependent on the delivery, and it's not like Argentina NT is full of shit either.
>b-but muh solo run against Getafe
If Maradona played in a team like Barca of the last decade, we wouldn't be having this discussion because Messi/Maradona comparison would be irrelevant.
>>69239208
Leonardo
>>69239131
Gentile was a fucking thug, man.
>As Kevin Keegan walked towards the podium to collect his award for the Best European player in a black tie dinner hosted by UEFA, he was tripped over by the outstretched leg of a man named Claudio Gentile. Keegan picked himself up and looked at him, only to see a mischievous glare mixed with a stern expression appear on the face of the soon-to-be-nemesis of probably the greatest player the world has ever seen. As Keegan was about to walk away, Gentile, in a low voice uttered:“You wouldn’t have won any award, if I had been marking you.”
>>69239208
Everyone know it's Andrés, at least here
>>69239226
not everyone is 15 years old here boy
>>69239272
Oh I'm sure you saw him play live for Boca juniors on Poland channel 1.
>>69239209
which is still 30 times better than having the fucking usa in a semifinal
>>69239131
>he thinks current Sunny Liga defending is comparable to 30 years ago
Oh boy
Ok, I give up. Even if Messi won the fucking WC like GOAT Gotze, or scored trilion WC goals like GOAT Klose, you fuckers would still hate him and made things up just to make yourself feel better.
For fucks sake I'm on a fucking japanesse imageboard talking about sports with neckbeards and bronys.
I'm outta here
>There are people who aren't millennials on /sp/
Eww
>>69239389
>1998 born Messi fanboy ragequtting
>>69239363
>he thinks sweeping a striker every chance he's 2 feet from you is defending
Shit was boring bro, reason they changed the rules.
>>69239247
>Are you going to unironically claim NT Messi is the same quality as club Messi?
He individually is. Team trophies are won by teams, and Barcelona in Messi's time is one of the best teams of all times. They didn't win everything they did solely because of Messi. His NT team doesn't breed such success because, you know, they aren't really that good as you think.
>He's 100% dependent on the delivery, and it's not like Argentina NT is full of shit either.
Maradona was too dependant on his teammates delivery. You forgot Burruchaga had to run 40m with the ball touching it 4 times in the process of scoring that WC winning goal. Every player is dependant on his teammates in one way or another.
>If Maradona played in a team like Barca of the last decade, we wouldn't be having this discussion because Messi/Maradona comparison would be irrelevant.
If Messi played in a NT with Valdano, Burruchaga and Ruggerri we wouldn't have this discussion today. :^)
>>69239335
Not really since we consistently make the RO16 in the WC and the semis in 2002
it's Iceland, smaller than every single U.S. state
>>69237474
Zidane is better
>>69239501
>it's Iceland, smaller than every single U.S. state
and still better than the whole north american continent
>>69239363
You have defensive freaks of nature players today who run more then 10km's just to stop one guy not getting the ball, or if he gets one, not having the ball longer then 1 sec. All I see in older videos are jogging "defenders" and that one guy who makes a rage tackle, if he even can.
>>69239451
You're right, but that doesn't change the fact Messi would start sperging and crying after 10 minutes under such conditions. Maradona (full of cocaine, but still) had to deal with it every week.
>>69238013
Before Messi, Barca had 1 CL. Now they have 5. Before Messi, Barca had never won a treble. With Messi they did it 2 times.
It's Messi who carries Barca.
>>69239591
Thanks for sharing I guess
>>69239686
Before Messi, Spain had 1 EC. Now they have 3 EC and 1 WC. Spain had never won a WC, with Messi they did it.
>>69239686
Spain, Barca lite, won a world cup without Messi.
Where's your god now, atheist?
>>69239686
>>69239737
holy fuck R.I.P.
>>69239481
I don't remember NT Messi scoring anything like Maradona's goal against England. When there's no Alves providing low crosses for him to tap in and stat pad, Messi gets frustrated and lost. Sure, 1986 Argentina was stronger than the current crop, but apologizing Messi's failure to replicate his club form are just excuses. NT Maradona was the same as Napoli Maradona, in Messi's case it's a world of difference. And you don't want to compare Napoli and Barcelona, do you?
>>69239623
There's difference between getting closed down and hacked down with two feet. The former takes skill and teamwork to get out of, the latter leaves you bruised and hurting for the rest of the match. And you would get tackled like that several times during a game. Any rougher physical contact involving Messi in Sunny Liga is automatically a foul.
All these guys unironically believing that back in those times defenders were sissies
>Jonquet 1958
>Pelé 1966
>Batiston 1982
Defenders need to be more skilled now, because defending isn't today a mere ruthless act of aggression thanks to the ruled which ban it
>NEVER won a champions league
Scholes was better to be honest.
>>69239936
Vialli and Mancini were one Pagliuca away from winning the UCL, that wouldn't make them better than Maradona to be honest.
>>69238816
Maradona Shilled by fifa ? HAHAHAHA.
You must be one of those thugs that whistled during the Argentinian Anthem in the WC1990
>>69239899
>Sunny Liga
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2Sholktogw
>>69239503
>Zidane is better
>>69240005
>mfw Youtube highlights again
This compilation of 7 years is equivalent of one match against Verona in 1985, and they didn't have to carry Maradona away in coma.
>>69239737
m8 messi's from argentina
>>69240132
Ask Ahmed to go find the point that went over your head. I'm sure it must be there somewhere.
>>69240099
>mfw those fedora statements again
>>69240146
I'll go look for it, you just keep practicing those penalties
>>69239826
>I don't remember NT Messi scoring anything like Maradona's goal against England.
Neither did Maradona replicate it. That goal is an anomaly, as Maradona himself said: "I don't think I could have done it against any other team because they all used to knock you down; they are probably the noblest in the world".
>When there's no Alves providing low crosses for him to tap in and stat pad
Interestingly, he's Argentina's NT all time top scorer of all time at 29 y.o. without Alves. He does rather well for an "underachiever". :^)
>Messi gets frustrated and lost.
Every player gets frustrated when the going gets tough but they manifest it differently. Messi tends to zoom out of the game, Maradona chimps out and gets red. I'd rather have lost Messi on the pitch than Maradona in shower room. :^)
>Sure, 1986 Argentina was stronger than the current crop, but apologizing Messi's failure to replicate his club form are just excuses.
He did replicate his club form. His individual form doesn't equate his TEAM success. Barcelona was successful because they were amazing generation of players, Argentina failed because they weren't really up to the task collectively
In 2014 they simply faced a superior team in 9/11 positions and in CA couldn't cut it vs Chile defending + choking collectively twice.
Similiarly, Napoli failed in European Cups vs Real Madrid because they were superior team, and vs Spartak Moscow couldn't cut it + choking collectively.
Would you say Napoli's European Cup team failures and Arg NT team failures are solely down on Maradona/Messi not being able to produce their best form? Or is it more of a team issue :^)
I'm not a fan of any of them.
One is a drug addict, roided, that cheated to win and every fucking monkey went "muh mano de dios"
One is a manlet autist that does in FCB what Maradona never did, being good in the part of the globe that matters, Europe, but will never win anything for his NT.
>>69240099
Why does sp always use the "youtube highlights don't count", do you expect some anon to post 4 whole games? If he wants to point something out of course it's a highlight.
Besides, what do "muh hard defenders" have to do with being a better player? 60's players were "harder" than 80's players, and current players run 3 more km per game than 80's players. The game changes, that's it. But the 80's years in Italy argument can be easily debunked by >>69237855
>>69240200
>out of arguments
>le fedora meme
>mfw
You need to step up your posting game bro, see Anon here for example >>69240276
MARADO, MARADO, MARADO
fucking genius
>>69240478
why didn't Maradona perform with Napoli in CL against sunny liga defenders?
im actually full of arguments
>>69240478
They actually tried to knock him down much like Messi with Getafe, but in both cases it way too late, they should've pushed him from the back, once the guy got his way to the penalty area that last sweeping doesn't do shit, as it's too predictable to dodge.
More like millennials who never watched Maradona think he is better than Messi
Seriously this meme player best years were between 1986-1990 after that he was high all the time, I remember how pathetic he looked in EU 1994
>>69237474
>there are millennials that think Messi and Ronaldo are better than Fat Ronaldo or Zidane
> there are millennials that think Ronaldo or Messi are better than Eusébio, Di Stefano, Van Basten or Cruijff
Why live?
>>69240396
Because that's what 18 year olds do instead of explaining themselves. How does a compilation of 5 hard tackles against Missi refute the fact that physicality of tackles in Sunny Liga is a joke compared to Serie A at the time?
>muh hard defenders
The conversation started when some underage fanboy cried that >b-but defenders just jogged around Maradona, therefore it was easy back then. He had more space initially, sure, but got kicked in his knee everytime he got close to goal.
>>69238926
Zico was a flopping twink faggot
the ref incorrectly annulled an Italian goal and didn't give a clear penalty for them, match should have been 5-2.
>rating Memi above Zidane
>>69240564
>comparing Maradona's Napoli to Real Madrid
Just look up their lineup. Why didn't almighty Missi take the ball and dribble against all Fake Madrid defenders in last CL? You're moving goalposts anyway, because topic of the conversation was the nature of 80s defending.
>>69240619
Because you're not them
>>69240765
>>comparing Maradona's Napoli to Real Madrid
compare Messi's Argentina to 2014 Germany
>>69241129
forgot to say only Mascherano is world class and they faced a NT built out of Bayerns squad
>>69240627
that's the point, it's ridiculous to compare players from different eras, now they have to play 50 games per year, running 3km more per game than in the 80's (7km more than in the 60's). But they have better treatments and tecnology, and severe laws
>i watched 80's Serie A
>>69241278
>I base my arguments on Youtube highlights
>>69241532
>Youtube highlights aren't real
>>69241129
>>69241185
Again, what does this have to do with anything? Point out the exact post in this thread where anyone said that Germany didn't have better team than Argentina.
>>69241644
>has no idea how Serie A looked like in Maradona's time
>attempts to discuss the topic anyway
>starts diverting and posting memes when exposed as underaged with his epin Youtubes
>>69239481
/thread
Board is full of contrarian autists
>>69241647
>Again, what does this have to do with anything? Point out the exact post in this thread where anyone said that Germany didn't have better team than Argentina.
I've posted 2 matches where Maradona did nothing while Napoli got BTFO'ed from CL and you said
>comparing Maradona's Napoli to Real Madrid
and then I said
>compare Messi's Argentina to 2014 Germany
see? I can pull my argument out of my asshole anytime too
you:
>Why didn't almighty Missi take the ball and dribble against all Fake Madrid defenders in last CL?
me:
>Why didn't almighty Maradona take the ball and dribble against all Spartak Moscow defenders?
>Why didn't almighty Maradona beat Germany? He surely had a chance
>>69237474
You weren't even alive to watch him play every week, and if you were, then get off the computer grandpa.
>>69242023
But his dad told him, and he heard it in a pub a long time ago, therefore he's right about everything.
>>69241890
Drop the Ozujsko, Anon. You started """discussing""" these matches for no reason, my argument with Missi in CL was just out of place ridicule of your diversion attemps.
>Maradona did nothing
Have you seen the match? You just looked up the Wikipedia page of the game, didn't see a goal by him listed there and assumed he was useless. But you surely saw the away game in Madrid against Atletico in CL and saw how Missi disappeared.
>>69241883
*Board is full underaged le epin autistic midget fanboys who started watching football in 2008 and never saw any of the classic players
Fixed that for you
>>69242023
>not watching it live at the time means you can't watch the whole matches later
Ok
>>69242449
>you can't watch the whole matches later
You've watched 95% of the matches he's been in or just cherry picked ones where he scored hat tricks? Cause 20 years from now, I can tell my kids that Nani was the greatest winger of our time and show him youtube compilations and the matches he used to have against Spurs.
>>69241129
kek then compare this squad to Chile's and then see how hard everyone especially the system babby midget choked.
>>69241219
Garrincha was done by 1964, fucked up knees and cirrhosis.
>>69242693
>Nani was the greatest winger of our time and show him youtube compilations
Posting compilations is fanboy's weapon of choice, lel. Seriously though, I haven't seen 95% of Maradona's matches (who on /sp/ has?) but a portion of them good enough to make up my mind on the topic and know that Maradona > Missi. And that's including the matches where Maradona was hungover with bloody circles under his eyes and dried vomit around his mouth, he still attempted his best against leg-breaking defenders.
>>69242713
>but muh GOAT asperger autismo
>j-just like me
>>69242693
It's pretty much the same as just looking at the matches in which Messi statpads against pathetic Spanish potato farmers with his stacked as fuck club, since when you see his big matches with Argentina he has always been really disappointing, and in the last one he missed a penalty and then quit like a crybaby bitch.
>>69237815
This
>>69243046
>>69243046
>It's pretty much the same as just looking at the matches in which Messi statpads against pathetic Spanish potato farmers
This argument doesn't really work anymore pal, given that he's scored against Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Manchester United, Arsenal, Man City, AC Milan, PSG...are these guys potato farmers too?
>>69242887
>I haven't seen 95% of Maradona's matches (who on /sp/ has?) but a portion of them good enough to make up my mind on the topic and know that Maradona > Missi.
>Actually admits that he hasn't watched a lot of Maradona matches.
You're a literal idiot. Case closed.
>>69243219
Sure, he scored against big teams of course, Maradona did too and with a far less stacked team, and he actually played amazingly with Argentina when it mattered, unlike Messi.
>>69243251
>hasn't watched a lot of Maradona matches
>mfw (You) in charge of reading comprehension
All I admitted is that I haven't seen 95% of Maradona's matches
>>69243083
>>69243324
True GOAT
>>69243324
>he statpadded against farmers
>Sure, he scored against big teams of course
poor retard lel
>>69243410
>missing the rest of the post
I think you need to work on your English reading comprehension amigo.
>>69243345
You literally just admitted you havent watched a lot of Maradona watches but cherry picked select ones and from that is how you reached your conclusion.
The reality here is you for some inexplicable reason just hate Messi, for reasons only known to you. Every slav I've met is a huge Ronaldo fan boy so maybe it's a cultural thing there to fawn over him, but you don't have any actual reasons to bring up to build your case. Just autistic posts like these one: >>69243030
>>69243324
> and he actually played amazingly with Argentina
Yeah like that time he scored a handball goal and got away with it.
>Unlike Messi
Who has carried his team to 3 finals in 3 years and lost all 3 of those cause Higuain couldn't score on an open net. Can you explain to me how exactly the Argentina team is stacked? It's a miracle that team reached a final, let alone 3. Di Maria is always injured, Aguero is always playing at 40% power and Higuain is the biggest choker alive.
>>69243591
>Can you explain to me how exactly the Argentina team is stacked?
this flag lmfao
>>69243591
>Who has carried his team
This is bullshit, in the World Cup they were carried the defense after the group stage when Messi disappeared; in the 2015 CA in the only hard match they had before the final against Colombia, Messi missed a really easy chance and they won by penalties; in the last CA they had probably the easiest possible road to the final, and in it the Chilean defense completely neutralized Messi, then he missed the penalty and quit like a little girl. You can't blame the penalty miss and the quitting on any other players can you?
>>69243591
>less than 95% of 600 matches automatically means just cherry picked couple of matches
>the city of (You)
Don't bother to bring up the underage Facebook debate of Tsu vs. Missi, I'm not a fan or hater of either of them. But dumb Missi fanboys deserve nothing but ridicule. Educate yourself on the topic of football (and this means before 2008, it's hard, I know) and come back then.
>>69243751
I would think that even to an idiot like you that I am not American. Probably watched this sport longer than you have been alive since you still use "lmfao"
>>69243802
>I'm not a Messi hater
As evidenced by all the posts you've made all over this thread? How can you even tell anyone to educate themselves on anything when you're a walking contradiction. You're just a really awful troll.
>>69243868
If you watched the sport for "so long" and dont see why the boludo national team is one, if not the most, stacked team in the world you are delusional
>>69243915
You are literally not explaining what makes this current Argentina team so stacked. Maybe in one of your posts you will.
>>69240765
>the nature of 80s defending.
Van Basten himself:
>"There is a big difference between 25 years ago and now, though.”
>Maradona and Van Basten had more space to play in, and the game today has become much more compressed, said Van Basten
>“We had an area of maybe 40 metres by 50 metres in which we could play; now it’s so tight it’s only half of that,” he explained.
>“Players have lost 20 metres of space and there might be 10 players between them and the penalty area when they get the ball."
>“You must have very good technique, be very clever to get through the defence, play quick one-twos. That is very, very difficult, and it’s the biggest change between then and now."
:^)
>>69243868
>criticizing Messi by pointing out how dependant on Barca system he is, how he fails to step up for NT and how Maradona is clearly superior makes me a "hater"
That's some impressive Barca Facebook group argumentation you got there. Missi is still in top 5 football players of all time, but claims about him being the one GOAT are a sure way to expose a casual.
>>69244160
>are a sure way to expose a casual.
Do you get off on being such a contrarian dimwit.
We've already established you haven't watched Maradona play week in week out so your opinion on the subject matter is pretty much as useful as someone who says Nani is a top 10 winger.
>Dependent on Barca system
Was it the Barca system that made him embarrass Roberto Carlos and Cannavaro when he was 19 years old all by himself?
>Fails to step up for NT
>Literally only missed 1 penalty out of the 4 finals he's been in
>Highest goalscorer of all time for Argentina
>Obsession with Barcelona after saying Xavi and Iniesta carry him, Xavi retired 2 years ago and Iniesta is getting slower and Barca still keeps winning.
>I'm not a hater but I'll use meme words I learnt on /sp/
>>69244119
That's literally what I said here >>69240627
>He had more space initially, sure, but got kicked in his knee everytime he got close to goal
Not sure what you're trying to prove. Also Maldini, one of the best defenders of all time said "Maradona is the best player I ever faced. When in form, there was no way of stopping him." Remember how Maldini in his late thirties managed to contain and nullify Missi? I'll take his opinion on the matter over 4chan autismo fanboys.
>>69237474
>>69237815
it's statbabbies. People who don't watch matches or understand the sport, just read stats and think all the truth is there.
They believe that dario hubner or di natale are stronger than batistuta or del piero or totti or inzaghi and trezeguet because they scored more than them.
They think that all the performances when he's surrounded by other goat players are what defines his talent, and not what he can do when he has to be the decisive one against a defense that is shutting down his team.
And he has shown that he can't without his system, maradona could.
Pele is the goat
>>69244201
Wow after 3 attempts you finally get it right.
>US4
This would affect me if I was actually American Santos, and even then, nothing will ever be worse than 7-1. 50 years from now people will still be talking about that.
>Sergio Romero
>Otamendi
Bench warmers in their clubs. Romero is actually the 3rd choice keeper in Man U. Rojo was perma-injured for most of this season.
>Mercado
>Roncaglia
Wow so stacked man!
>Biglia
>Banega
>Pastore
>Lavezzi
Decent midfielders but that's where it stops, nothing special compared to what teams like Germany, Spain and France have.
>Lamela
>Gaitan
Don't ever get picked to start
>Higuain
Certified choker
>Di Maria
Always finds a way to injure himself
>Aguero
Not the same striker he is when with Man City
Yeah really stacked team there.
>>69244160
>criticizing Messi by pointing out how dependant on Barca system he is
But he isn't. He did well in Batista's, Sabella's and Martino's systems, won't even mention club. Have you ever thought that one player can do well even when his team fails to reach a trophy?
>how he fails to step up for NT
He did step up m9.
Argentina in a time span between Messi and Maradona:
WC: 3 x QF exits
Copa America: 1 final reached (they lost)
With Messi:
WC: 1 final reached
Copa: 3 finals reached (they lost)
Sure, he didn't bring them a WC, but still he did elevate them from the result they were achieveing before him.
>Maradona is clearly superior
Burruchaga being clutch doesn't make Maradona superior footballer to Messi m9. :^)
>>69244304
>still claims I haven't seen enough of Maradona to have a valid opinion on the subject
>criticized me for cherry picking
>proceeds to cherry pick some of Missi's dribbles
>cherry picks a missed penalty as his only NT failure
>calls me "obsessed" and "hater" in his Barca facebook fanboy lingo while I don't care about the team, one way or another
You're only digging the hole deeper for yourself
>>69244420
Not really
Drug cheat ruined his legacy. People worship this guy. Literally Lance.
>>69244535
Why not
>>69244496
the mental gymnastics are strong on you
>messi is the best player ever, but how can u expect him to carry a team full of champions league top clubs versus a team filled with colo colo and europe league players
>Maradona is GOAT because of the World Cup
>wins his only World Cup thanks to cheating, and gets disqualified for cheating in another one
wew lad
>>69244402
This 100%. Explain it to the morons ITT though.
>>69239098
>How did he end up in such a good team?
because he's a great player. But a great player surrounded by great players against weaker teams has far more chances to look good.
But when he wasn't surrounded by his barcelona teammates his showings were quite lower.
Essentially to see how great a player is you should cosider how well his team would do without him.
>>69239149
He studied maradona before his match and determined that once he took the ball there was no way to stop him. So he decided to foul him before he received a pass so he couldn't get the ball.
>>69244496
wow, are you actually trying to say that Argentina is less stacked than Chile?
>>69244515
Refer to this post: >>69243767 He was carried by the defense, every final he's played it's been either by penalties, extra time, or blown the fuck out by Brazil (he was young so you can count that one out of the equation), Mascherano, rojo and Romero being clutch doesn't make Messi a superior footballer to Maradona m9. :^).
>>69244593
>carry a team full of champions league top clubs
Literally the only people that are champions league caliber are Mascherano, Pastore Aguero, Di Maria and >Higuain, everyone else is a damn bench warmer and I already pointed out the short comings in Di Maria and Aguero. That was the entire point of my post.
Learn how to read before responding next time. And they lost to Chile on penalties which don't discriminate on which club you play for you dummy.
>>69244518
>Has been in this thread for hours
>Says he isn't obsessed
>Says Maradona is better although he hasn't watched any of his matches except the really famous ones.
>Claims Messi is a "system babby" when he had 3 different coaches coaching him in Argentina, and all 3 times he reached the final
2/10 but that's the best I can do. One more chance to actually come up with an argument. Don't strain your brain too much.
>>69244653
No you idiot. I said it's less stacked than Germany, France and Spain, and even less stacked than Barcelona. Learn to read before you respond.
>>69244322
>That's literally what I said here
Err no, Van Basten didn't imply anything about physicality but pointed out difference in space as the "BIGGEST change between then and now". :^)
> Also Maldini, one of the best defenders of all time said "Maradona is the best player I ever faced. When in form, there was no way of stopping him."
Maldini after that Bayern 3-0 game: "Messi makes the difference. “I think he reached and surpassed the level of Maradona."
>Remember how Maldini in his late thirties managed to contain and nullify Missi?
I don't recall Maldini ever faced Messi but feel free to refresh my memory.
>I'll take his opinion on the matter over 4chan autismo fanboys.
"Messi makes the difference. “I think he reached and surpassed the level of Maradona."
:^)
>>69244515
>Messi starts for Argentina: 113
>Maradona starts for Argentina: 91 (last 25 as obese and crippled)
>Messi NT status: loser and whiny quitter
>Maradona NT status: God
Enough said.
>>69244774
Messi is a system babby even mentally, he's so used to having everything given to him on a silver platter, that when he faces adversity out of his bubble, he literally quits. If he fucked up as bad as Maradona did in 1982, instead of coming back 4 years later to redeem himself, he would probably quit football altogether or kill himself.
>>69244827
France, Spain and Barça are irrelevant because Argentina never played against them
Germany is better and they lost, fair and square
But Messi-less Argentina beat Chile in the groups, Argentina with Messi lost to Chile in the final
How can you defend this?
>>69244930
>he's so used to having everything given to him on a silver platter
Do you even watch football? He's not a tap-in merchant like Ronaldo, I think you have the two confused. He plays much deeper in Argentina and lays golden chances for guys like Higuain to mess up.
>>69244936
>Argentina with Messi lost to Chile in the final
>How can you defend this?
Did you see those games? Bravo had his worst game of the tournament in the opener and then had the best one in the final.
Remember when Messi was injured and Argentina had to start the WC qualifiers without him? How did that go?
>>69244695
>Marcos Rojo: 2014–2015 Manchester United 38 (0)
>Nicolás Otamendi 2015– Manchester City 30 (1)
>Ángel Di María 2015– Paris Saint-Germain 28 (10)
>Javier Mascherano 2015–16 Barcelona 32 (0)
>Érik Lamela Tottenham Hotspur 2015-216 44 (11)
>Javier Matías 2015-2016 Pastore Paris Saint-Germain 43 (10)
>Lionel Messi 2015-2016 Barcelona 49 (41)
>Sergio Aguero 2015-2016 Manchester City 44 (29)
bu-bu-but he i-is the go-goat gusy
>>69244936
And my point is, Argentina isn't nearly as stacked as those teams. Argentina without Messi were struggling to qualify for the WC.
>Messi-less Argentina beat Chile in the groups, Argentina with Messi lost to Chile in the final
This is such a childish way of analyzing things. You probably didn't even watch the first game.
>>69244994
Fucking terrible, as that run proved how shallow Martino's tactics are
>muh 4-3-3 no matter what
>>69244930
>this retard
I guess Jamas Rodriguez is also terrible for Colombia :^)
>>69245032
Are you trolling or actually being stupid on purpose? Also, Tottenham weren't in the champions league this year you tosser.
Messi is one of the biggest chockers in argentina history, and he belongs to one of the chocker-est arentina teams EVER
Maradona will always be better, even if messi wins something with argentina
>>69244994
look, obviously messi is a great player, and the most important one in the argentinian NT.
But his performances in barcelona are inflated due to the rest of the team he has surrounding him.
That's why in his NT he doesn't look as good as in his club. He's not underperforming. He's performing at his level without the barça system.
Maradona consistently performed better than NT messi with comparable teams. That's why people are arguing that messi is not the GOAT
>>69245032
>the team is filled with EPLel ""stars"" so it must be stacked
I suppose England and Belgium should be top 5 NTs by that logic
>>69245144
trolling what? your mental gymnastics to justify why messi cant win shit on argentina is hilarious
chile is literraly filled with tier 3 club players and you start make shit up when i just showed you that those "bench warmers" are playing quite a bit
>>69244905
>can't refute the fact that Argentina with Messi produced superior results than Argentina before him
>"m-muh status"
You can do better than that m9 :^)
>>69244936
>But Messi-less Argentina beat Chile in the groups, Argentina with Messi lost to Chile in the final How can you defend this?
Argentina beat them 3 times with Messi in WC qf's. Maybe it's the finals. :^)
>>69245060
Argentina without Messi is still the most stacked team in south America, you can't deny that
>>69239481
>bosnia in charge of having a argentinean opinion
>>69245186
nah drop the EPlel and fill them with Colo Colo and Universidade del Chile players
that will make them more stacked amirite
>there are people unironically claiming that Argentina have a stacked team because they have Aguero
>>69244846
http://sports.ndtv.com/football/news/244743-lionel-messi-overtaking-diego-maradona-says-paolo-maldini
>From what I'm seeing, he's approaching the point where he is perhaps overtaking Maradona in terms of everything he's achieved in recent years
Why are you changing Maldini's words?
>perhaps reaching Maradona
>because off all the stuff he won thanks to Barca
But they never faced each other, you're right about that, I got it wrong.
>>69245338
tbf I would give an arm to have Aguero instead of Eder
>>69244774
>although he hasn't watched any of his matches
Way to project, burgerfriend. Why are you still using this as your only defence? Won't you stop until I tell you how many matches I've watched? Keep guessing.
>had 3 different coaches coaching him in Argentina, and all 3 times he reached the final
The only one that counts is WC, and it was hardly because of Messi's individual performances.
>>69245196
>mental gymnastics to justify why messi cant win shit on argentina is hilarious
I love how you left out Romero out of your little rant, and no the argument here is you saying that Argentina is a stacked team. Germany, Spain and France are stacked teams, Argentina isn't, they're an above average team but far from being stacked.
And of the players you listed out, only Messi, Mascherano and Rojo started in the final. Rojo got sent off and Aguero came in as a sub. So really good job in shooting yourself in the foot.
Still waiting for you to give an actual argument regarding anything as opposed to down playing the fact that reaching 3 finals in 3 years with that team is normal. And if Argentina had won, you'd still be here making excuses for it.
>>69245216
>Argentina with Messi produced superior results than Argentina before him
How does that make Messi better than Maradona? Even Argentinians had enough of the choker >>69245162
>>69245338
>Guy on the wing is completely unmarked cause 5 chilean players are that scared of Messi
>Aguero just skies it cause why not
>>69245338
>agüero
what a useless limp piece of shit. Thank god city's shiekh refused to sell him to barcelona
>>69244984
He plays in one of the most stacked clubs in history since he was a child (i.e. silver platter), and when he leaves it he shits the bed and quits.
>>69245088
James had a much better World Cup than Messi, anyway.
>>69245338
>>69245525
>burgerfriend
so dumb.
>Keep guessing
A couple of 10 minute youtube compilations at best. You probably don't even know who Burruchaga is.
>Not cause of individual performances
>Messi assist to Di Maria in goal against Switzerland
>Messi assist to Higuain in goal against Belgium
>Scored in penalty shootout against Holland
>>69245527
Im loving how you try to justify how messi is the best player ever on the sport when he can't carry his team even with better team mates than the competition, while others did accomplish that with much less to work with
statbabby scoring 50 goals with his allstar team doesn't mean shit
>>69245613
>and when he leaves it he shits the bed and quits
I guess being top goalscorer of all time for your country ahead of other great Argie strikers like Batistuta and Crespo makes you a huge failure in your coked out mind.
>James had a much better World Cup than Messi
Yeah James Rodriguez, best player in the world against Japan.
>>69245686
I was actually making fun of the Youtube watching fanboys earlier.
>two assists and a penalty in shootout
GOAT GOAT GOAT
Hamšík did better for Slovakia in this Euro, lmao
>>69245711
>while others did accomplish with much less
This is so wrong it hurts. Argentina 1986 > Argentina 2014.
>statbabby scoring 50 goals
Then why do you Brazilians like to nut ride Pele for scoring 1000 goals against a bunch of farmers? Oh the irony.
Just so you guys know, millennials are people born in the time span of 1980-1999. So if you're not one you should either leave this website because you're underage or you should leave it because you're over 35 and should get your life together.
>>69245764
>Hamšík did better for Slovakia in this Euro, lmao
You've completely lost your head buddy. It was a good attempt, at least you tried.
>>69245744
>being top goalscorer in friendlies means anything
He's played more matches than Batistuta and Crespo and still has managed to score very little goals in World cups and no goals in WC knockout rounds, or against any strong teams.
>best player in the world against Japan.
>ignores his matches against Uruguay and Brazil
Yeah Messi, best player in the world against Iran, Bosnia and Nigeria
why are americans such hardcore messi apologists? we get it, he's your idol and the first great player you watched, but there's no need to sperg out so much
>>69245816
sure. thats why its popular name was "Maradona plus 10 others
>>69245846
>and no goals in WC knockout rounds, or against any strong teams.
Wow keep shifting those goal posts buddy, you will never stop.
>match against Brazil
The one where he was completely neutralized by David Luiz of all people and only scored a penalty?
Why are you even talking about James? I'll be shocked if Real Madrid don't off load him this season due to how garbage he is. Overrated meme player.
>>69245888
>Not even American
>Has nothing left to say
>Better sperg out and make a meaningless /int/ post cause I was too stupid to read
>>69245965
>thats why its popular name was "Maradona plus 10 others
That's only popular to casuals such as yourself who don't know how good the Argentina defense and midfield was.
>>69245965
No, it only became popular when casuals started looking at their squad and not being able to recognise those players.
Back then it was Maradona + 7 very recent Copa Libertadores winners + a key part of Real Madrid's title team
>>69245846
>Yeah Messi, best player in the world against Iran, Bosnia and Nigeria
#rekt
>>69245816
oh and btw no one gives a shit about peles goals, they praise him because of 3 world cups
>be famous for doing coke and scoring with your hand
>good
Pick only one can't have drugged up cheater as a good player
>>69245968
I'm not even trying to argue against you
I do believe that Messi is the goat, but just calm down, he's not the flawless God you think he is. There's no need to shit on football history or other current players just to defend him
>>69245888
>wahhh wahhh please stop talking well of messi
>>69246098
it's just that every Messi thread has a bunch of americanadians sperging out everytime, it's quite annoying
I have nothing against Messi btw
>>69246012
>>69246008
right...... argentina defense sucks nowadays
on 7 copa america games, the allowed 2 goals in
argentina's problem is not the defense.
>>69246086
>he's not the flawless God you think he is
Nowhere did I even start talking about Messi as an individual. I've only been discussing Argentina's team ever since I joined the thread.
>There's no need to shit on football history or other current players just to defend him
I will shit on Higuain as many times as is humanly possible.
>>69245968
He has never scored a goal against a strong team or in a knockout round in a World Cup, and that is not goalpost shifting, that is a fact.
>and only scored a penalty
He was the only player still trying in that match after everyone else shat themselves, in other words he was carrying the team. Even if you don't count that match, the Uruguay game is better than anything Messi did in that World Cup.
I'm not talking about James' current form, I'm comparing him to Messi during the World Cup, which is the relevant thing to do in this conversation.
>>69245835
1980-1986/87 is still Generation Y territory
>>69246173
so you just use the others as scapegoats and keep saying "it's everyone's fault but Messi's"?
that's exactly what I find annoying
>>69246166
Yeah their problem is finishing up front, Messi isn't the main striker, he plays further deep in the pitch for Argentina than he does for Barcelona. Higuain/Aguero are but memers like you like to lay the blame on the star player for who knows what reason.
>>69246226
didnt you said he was the best scorer ever on argentina? now he isn't anymore?
or he only scores on bosnia? im not following the train of thought
>>69246221
>you just use the others as scapegoats and keep saying "it's everyone's fault but Messi's"?
You'd do yourself a lot of good if you actually knew how to read. The only person I blame on the Argie team is Higuain, everyone else plays their part, Di Maria and Aguero are underwhelming for the most part compared to what they do for their clubs. I am being very objective too when I say that the 1986 team was better than the 2014 one, that's just a plain fact of life.
Messi must be at least in the top 2 players of all time because of how frequently and how fervently people claim him to be in that rank
You don't see anyone in the majority of other modern sporta saying it so adamantly about anyone: not basketball, not basketball, not baseball, and as far as I'm aware, not golf, cricket, rugby, etc
The only players who have had this said about them in their respective sports with as much urgency are Roger Federer (and that claim during his peak is very reasonable) and Tom Brady (Meh)
People are upset with Messi because he can't win an international competition with a broken team + a world class mid-fielder. Just think about that for a second.
>>69246264
>now he isn't anymore
Don't know how you arrived at that, but his role isn't as the main striker, he's usually the false 9 and a CAM and he still manages to outscore the main striker.
>>69246293
putting all the blame on a single person is even worse m8
if you don't understand that the whole team is at fault (as well as coaches and the AFA) maybe you should quit watching team sports
>>69246264
No no look, he is the best scorer ever when you need to see stats to make him look good, he's the best playmaker ever when you are questioned why he doesn't score goals when he should. Doesn't that make perfect sense?
>>69246406
> the whole team is at fault
But they aren't. They've lost 2/3 finals on penalties which are usually a coin toss, and in the WC they lost to a last minute goal in extra time. The actual Argentina team isn't bad, they play well collectively, but they aren't a stacked team either. It's like saying Wales is a stacked team cause they reached the Euros semi-final and cause they have Bale and Ramsey.
>>69246404
if he doesnt need the main striker to be the best scorer why do you blame the striker when it fails?
cant he just keep scoring as a playmaker?
when messi scores
>goat, carrying
when he doesnt
>HIGUAINNNNNNNNNNN
>>69246460
yeah whatever, I'm sure replacing Higuain will bring them countless of trophies
bye
>>69246530
>if he doesnt need the main striker to be the best scorer why do you blame the striker when it fails?
Wew is this some stupid Brazilian logic or what?
>Why do you blame the striker who misses an open goal one on ones in 3 consecutive finals? Let's blame Messi instead who missed one penalty in 4 finals.
>cant he just keep scoring as a playmaker?
See >>69245338
>That projecting
Quit making up your own arguments, arguing against them, then claiming victory. You're not actually debunking or refuting anything other than your own fantasies.
Messi himself is the ultimate proof Maradona is better. why did he quit the NT?
Because that way he could argue he didnt tried
all he could just to win a WC.
He knows he will never carry a mediocre team to a WC or a club like Naples to a championship, but he had all the chances to carry top NT teams to a WC title and he failed.
He wiil now try to focus in club football but i bet he hill never be the same knowing he failed, even if he stays until retiremente in Barcelona and its confy scheme
>>69237642
>>69237838
implying
>>69246550
>I'm sure replacing Higuain will bring them countless of trophies
I'm sure it would have and there would be no need for this hopeless debate.
Messi just quit on the national team because its too hard :((((
That should answer your question
>>69246709
check this
>>69246550
>>69246424
someone is being delusional here, it isnt me
>>69246731
You're so underage that you don't even know Maradona also quit the national team in 1990. That's how underage and casual you are.
>>69246731
>Messi himself is the ultimate proof Maradona is better. why did he quit the NT?
You do realise that Maradona quit the national team TWICE, right? (and that was before he was kicked out for being a drugged up cheat)
>>69246763
Ronaldo never had half the talent Messi had in his teammates in the NT, and he tries, Messi is just a weekend warrior with all the talent but lacks heart and genious cheekyness
>>69246831
Maradona quit after he had already proven himself, and after he was injured and getting overweight. Messi is on his prime.
>>69246816
Offended by facts?
>>69246887
Maradona quit in 1983 as well and didn't play for Argentina for over 2 years
>>69246731
damage control messi fanboys nauseate me
i saw Maradona play live. Thats why i laught at the tought of Messi playing in the teams that Maradona did, he would humiliated himself.
Messi sucks the life of his Barcelona teamates and he will be forgotten long after Maradona and other are still praised
>>69246887
>he was injured and getting overweight
He was literally in his early 20's when he quit the first time, then 30 when he quit again the second time.
>Messi sucks cause he's a quitter unlike Diego
>Maradona literally quit twice
Guess you can't use this anymore.
>>69246983
>claim that Maradona is better than Messi because Messi quit the NT
>get BTFO because Maradona did it TWICE
>change the subject to some vague ramblings about possibly being forgotten 50 years from now
lmao
>>69246927
>>69246989
He stopped going to the NT because he had a conflict with Bilardo, not because he lost so hard he ran crying out of the team.
>>69246892
>facts
lmfao check urself in a psych ward m8
anyways, keep blaming higuain for your systembabby failures, im sure that will work if you try hard enough, im out
HEY MOMMY DO YOU KNOW WHY I'M SO HAPPY?
I'VE SEEN MARADONA
HEY MOMMY I'M SO HAPPY NOW
>>69247036
So he ran out crying because he did not like the coach.
That's so much more honourable.
>>69237474
Remind me, how many European Cups did this overrated junkie won?
>>69247145
Shut the fuck up. Only this one particular 7 game tournament counts for evaluating greatness.
How dare you bring up things Maradona failed to win? He could carry any team anywhere, didn't you read the thread?
>>69247036
>not because he lost so hard he ran crying out of the team.
You're so embarrassingly underage. Why even bother talk about things you weren't alive for?
>>69247040
>can't argue a single point
>Messi being top scorer for Barcelona and Argentina isn't a fact
>Their biggest idol gets praises for scoring 1000 goals
>Doesn't know what "systembabby" actually means
>Gets his opinions and vocabulary from 4chan
>Has a problem with people blaming Higuain, wants everyone to blame Messi instead
>>69247145
Unreal Madrid 'fans' should leave now
>>69247145
As many as Messi has without Qatar oip money
>>69247116
Bilardo didn't even call him to the team.
>>69247208
Top goalscorer for Argentina with half the goals in friendlies and the other half against Panama and Iran
>>69247336
>>69247336
What did he mean by this?
>>69247214
so... 0?
He proved nothing at club level that is what you are saying?
>inb4 he chose to win leagues with poor little club Napoli when big italian clubs were better
That proves nothing because he was shit for Barcelona. A big fish in a small pond. He never proved anything at club level, he was a NT babby. How can the best football player ever only win things for the NT. He should be able to carry both his NT and his Club.
>>69244650
>He studied maradona before his match and determined that once he took the ball there was no way to stop him. So he decided to foul him before he received a pass so he couldn't get the ball.
Holy fuck
>>69247208
>You're so embarrassingly underage
Maradona wasn't playing as well as he did in 86 and had already won a World Cup, him quitting the team wasn't an act of cowardice like Messi's.
>>69247460
>act of cowardice
I think you need to be over 18 to post here. Those are the global rules.
>Maradona didn't quit like Messi!
>Gets told that he actually quit twice
>Well he was already injured and old
>Actually he was 30
>Well he had already won the WC!
I think I'll start trolling all of you by saying Miroslav Klose is the greatest striker of all time.
>>69241219
kek that terrible goalkeeper
>>69247208
>bragging about being well over the age of 33 and posting here
>>69247520
How is quitting your team after losing repeteadly while still being on your physical prime because you might get criticism not an act of cowardice?
>>69247520
>circumstances don't matter because it's inconvenient for my argument!!!!
>>69245338
I like this pic of that run.
>>69240751
Zico didn't flop in those games neither in Libertadores or against Liverpool.
>>69247420
>He never proved anything at club level
except those league titles he won? and a uefa cup too iirc
now don't try to convince me that a knockout competition like the CL (who wasn't even that relevant at the time) is more important than a round robin league because that's just wrong
>>69247608
>>69247642
Here's your pity (you)
>>69247621
Perhaps you can contrast that to quitting cause the coach didn't pick you and then also cause you're a drug addict and letting your country down by getting suspended from a tournament.
>act of cowardice
Most of the blame isn't even on him, and after he quit 7 other players also said they might leave too, so even his own teammates acknowledge how important he is but not armchair fan neckbeards on 4chan. Really makes you think what special information you have.
>>69247715
>CL wasn't that relevant in the 80's
ayy lmao sure thing mate
>>69247763
it was only league champions until 97/98, and even if it was the most relevant trophy (it wasn't) that doesn't make it harder to win than a round robin league, don't you agree?
>>69247759
>quitting cause the coach didn't pick you
He didn't quit, Bilardo just stopped picking players that didn't play in Argentina.
And letting your country down by not playing anymore despite still being considered the best player in the world in his prime is just as bad. Maradona got suspended after he had already led his country to a World Cup win, he had nothing left to prove, unlike Messi.
>>69247866
>he had nothing left to prove
He never proved that he could win one without cheating :^)
>>69247866
>led his country
This meme already got debunked. Pay attention.
>he had nothing left to prove
This is also not true, he was constantly always trying to prove that he was better than Pele and still felt he had a lot more to offer.
>>69247909
But boy was he close to winning another one.
>>69245686
You can bring up all the stats you want, it doesnt show the actual fact he played at a mediocre level in the knockout stages
>>69245744
Best player against Japan is better than Panama, Venezuela, Nigeria, and Iran
>>69247909
Shame you cant say that about his successes in Europe
>>69247824
>it was only league champions until 97/98
Other teams could qualify via a preliminary round
>that doesn't make it harder to win than a round robin league
of course it does, there is a difference between playing against Real Madrid or Liverpool than playing against Sassuolo.
>>69247909
Messi proved he can't win anything with his NT by any method, unlike Maradona and Pele.
>>69248031
there is also a difference between playing against Sacchi's Milan or Matthaus' Inter than playing against Mandril or Liverpoop (seriously, couldn't you find two better teams?)
I don't know how you can think that beating a team over two matches is more impressive than beating them over 30+ matches
Messi is Cruyff tier desu.
>>69247935
Yeah, everyone in the last 30 years has just considered his 86 WC one of the best by any individual player, especially his England match, but no I guess /sp/ memes debunk all that, since Messi has done so much better.
