Who else thinks that football has gotten a lot worse over the last decade? Sure, tactics and stamina are better, but skill are worse. There is a lot less great players than in the old days.
Just look at national teams. Only NT that has better players now than 10-15 years ago is Germany. Look what happened to Brazil, Netherlands, England and Portugal. They used to have star-packed teams. Argentina had a slight less firepower but made up for it by having world class defenders like Ayala, Zanetti and Samuel.
What is the reason for this drop in player quality? Bosman ruling? A lot of countries can train decent/good players today, but they no longer produce top-tier, world class stars.
If you grew up at the turn of the century then you can't look at current teams and not get depressed. I watched England game today and that team is a joke. They used to have Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard, Shearer, Beckham, Terry, Ferdinand, Owen and now?
The same with Poortugal, remember when they had Figo, Rui Costa, Deco?
After Sneijder, van Persie and Robben retire NED team will be a national disaster. You will go from Bergkamp, Seedorf, Davids, van der Sar, van Nistelrooy, Stam etc. to team of 22 "who the fuck is that" players.
Don't even get me started on Brazil...
le nostalgia
We're in a period where new stars are being made and the old one's are retiring.
Of course you're not going to have those big stars when they're in retirement homes/retiring or are too young/early in their career to be big stars.
>>68536793
Does anyone remember that great Polish team? No? Neither me.
>>68536793
>Only NT that has better players now than 10-15 years ago is Germany
Spain, Poland, Belgium, Chile, Colombia, Wales, Croatia
Nostalgiafag pls go
>>68536926
Does anyone remember the current Portugal team drawing to Iceland?
>>68536793
Adriano doesn't deserve to be in this pic
>>68536935
>Chile
>not remembering based Salas and Zamorano
>Croatia
>3rd place in the most based WC ever
You also completely forgot about African teams.
I disagree. These teams have little chemistry, but a World XI today would wreck one from '90
>>68536943
Still salty from world cup playoffs? Does anyone remember cuckland being relevant in football?
>>68536793
money!
>>68537018
OP said 10-15 years ago, so 2001-2006. If you want to compare each current NT to their best ever versions, then obviously they're going to look weaker
>>68537053
B-bronze '94! ;_;
Football is at it's highest standard ever. Not just in terms of the top players around but the average player is much MUCH better than 20 years ago.
Watch the Championship in England, it's like the PL from the 90s minus the top few teams.
The speed of the game is much greater and teams are much more solid defensively so it's harder to stand out as a top player. Anyone can look good when they have time on the ball and are playing poor defences.
>>68536935
I meant the classic powers, not the smaller teams.
Also you shouldn't mention Spain, large part of their golden generation already retired. Also they had a lot of great players back then, it's just that the team always choked or was refballed.
Wales? Giggs > Bale.
Also, like someone already said, African teams. For example Sweden had Larsson, Ljungberg etc.
>>68537150
>I meant the classic powers, not the smaller teams.
Then make a thread about classic powers being weaker, not about there being less great players.
>Wales?
When was the last time Wales participated at a major tournament? And made the last 16 too
>>68537140
This might be the answer desu
2006 Argentina was the best team ever. Debate me.
>>68537053
They made a major tournament final once, at home, but they lost it.
>>68537140
This basically.
>>68537074
fuck off, we won today
>>68537240
Its spain 2008
>>68537140
you're wrong. Like I said football is at it's highest standard ever in terms of tactics, stamina, speed etc. But not in skills. You really think that players I listed in my first post wouldn't shine today? I mean guys like Totti and Del Piero were among the very best players in Serie A even when they were almost 40. Those younger losers could not compare. Also didn't Luca Toni become top scorer in Serie A again recently at the age of, what, 38?
Which reminds me I forgot about Italy. They went from Maldini, Nesta, Cannavaro, Pirlo, Gattuso, Totti, Del Piero, Vieri, Inzaghi etc to their current squad. Shocking.
>>68537107
Were you even born?
>Mfw I remember 00 defeat against France, 04 defeat against Grease, 06 defeat against France again, 08 defeat against Spain
Life is suffering.
>>68537253
Says the guy that has won nothing for more than 50 years.
>>68537313
Spain 2010 would beat them
more entertaining /= better
>>68536793
It's not "think" it's a fact. There were more than a few powerhouse teams filled with legends on the roster a decade ago. Now all we here is "Ronaldo and Messi are out of this world." Yeah this world the world that soccer is in right now. It's shit. Messi and Ronaldo a decade ago in their prime would no doubt still be great but they wouldn't be the "another planet" meme type players that they are. So much skill and flair then. Now sure it's stamina bigger stronger but no skill and beauty soccer is dead
>>68536793
>that its only nostalgia meme
i feel the same my polish friend, teams were stacked with stars
>>68536793
less space and less time with the ball
journalists love talking about muh 10, we need muh 10, but 10s are dead, we need side-passing machines like Iniesta.
>>68537371
>>68537371
>10-15 years
>Vieri
>Totti
>Maldini
wew
>>68537403
i think 2006 italy would rape 2010 spain
>>68537371
Messi, Ronaldo, Iniesta, Suarez, Neymar, Zlatan, Lewandowski, Aguero, Muller, Bale, Benzema,
Name a time when there has been a greater group of attacking players?
Serie A is not as strong as it used to be.Everyone knows that. There are still many top class players playing today. More than ever before imo.
I agrre OP
I think it has a lot to do with players personality being oppresed through teams tactics
I remember the World Cup 98 with awe
There is no Ortega,Suker,Zamorano,Shearer,Ronaldo,Zidane,Delpiero,Hagi,Bergamp anymore just roleplayers everywhere
OP is a moron, it's the same for every single sport as it has developed over the last century
In hockey, as well, you have far less hyper-dominant super-star players ala Gretzky and Lemieux because the defense, goaltending, and the average player has drastically improved in quality. Play any top team from the 90s in soccer against any equivalent top team in the 10s, and they would probably draw or have a losing win ratio against them
>>68536793
i suppose its more competitive/balanced?, I mean if back in the day lets say, defenders were not as good as the average now then the stars werent that great, they were just much better to the defenders in comparison
>>68537510
>this nostalgiafagging
We've seen 15-20 strikers who are better than Suker/Zamorano in the last 6 years
>>68537510
>muh total football
This is why there was no Cruyff sticky
I bet you worship Schiller's ideal ancient Greek "everyman" who was both capable of being a tradesman and leading in the political sphere, you romantic cunt
>>68537500
Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Inzaghi, Shevchenko, Owen, Henry, Nistelrooy, should I go on?
If you made this about English football I'd agree. More teams need to look towards the future of the sport and start building homegrown talents with modern tactics rather than looking across the borders so much
>>68536793
>>68536793
2006 was the last tournament filled with huge stars. It was the time when Italy, France, Brazil all died.
Why would it get worse if the talent pool hasn't shrunk and training methods and rigour haven't declined? I think there's just more parity now so the best players can't show off as much.
Objectively skills have gotten better. Just look at how low tier teams played ten years ago. Even bumfuck countries like Iceland have players with decent ball control now. You just got used to a certain standard and it's harder to see what players excel from that baseline, that's all.
How to fix football in 4 easy steps
>stop the game clock during stoppages of play
>to compensate for this reduce game time 2 x 40 minutes and no injury time
>implement video reviews. All goals, penalties and cards are automatically reviewed
>give coaches 2 challenge flags per half. Get your flag back with a winning challenge
>>68537579
>Owen
>being even remotely comparable to Suarez, Ibrahimovic, Ronaldo, Lewandowski etc
classic nostalgiafagging
>>68537579
There are so many more names that it would actually be embarrassing to name them all. This list is gold already
when i see italy team i just cry
from del piero, vieri, totti to eder and zaza
>>68536793
what made players have some variety was the ability to bend and manipulate the ball due to its weight. Nowadays modern balls are light and do not stick to the foot as well as before. So both dribbling skills and free kicks suffer from originality as pacebabbies and le knuckleball dominate the light slick ball era.
>>68537637
tbf you listed overrated shitters like Agüero and Zlatan.
>that one time when just Italy had Totti, Vieri, Del Piero and Inzaghi
>>68537595
Why didnt england demolish Whales with a much larger talent pool and "prem ear ligue" training methods?
Bosman killed the small league's that's for sure
>>68536793
This so much m9. Just look at the state of defences in European football- teams are shelling out £20m+ for hacks like Baba Rahman & Eric Bailly coz there aren't any better options. Don't even get me started on centre forwards
>>68537678
Aguero and Zlatan managed to get 20 league goals in a season.
Owen never did
>>68537637
He definitely was better than Muller or Benzema
>>68536793
Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, Neymar, Lewandowski are literally better than any of the players in your pic, i shit you not
>>68537053
Does anyone remember Portgual winning a World Cup with the faggot that is Ronaldo? Nope, me neither.
>inb4 USA never wins anything
I live in the USA, but am from Argentina.
>>68537589
I agree, 2006 World Cup was an end of an era. 1996-2006 was a truly entertaining time for this sport, a lot more extining matched than today but not as tactically and defensively retarted as football during the cold war.
Just compare 1998 World Cup with 2010. 2002 world be just as great but referees ruined it by eliminating some legendary teams. Even France got refballed against Uruguay back then, nobody seems to remeber that.
Some people loved 2014 World Cup but it was only great during group staged + 7-1. Rest of the knockout stages was typical boring, tactical defensive 1-0 piece of shit games.
>>68537563
Cruyff eventually got a sticky though
>>68537563
in their respective teams?hell no
I know I will get a lot of shit for this but even Ortega>Messi skillswise
tactics and organization have improved immensely.
football in general and leagues in particular go through cycles, when you start breeding superb forwards then opponents have to breed superb defenders and improve tactics to adapt. The opposite also happens.
>>68537774
>I know I will get a lot of shit for this but even Ortega>Messi skillswise
You will not get any shit because shitting on someone clearly mentally handicapped is wrong.
>>68537675
you might be on to something, 2006 WC was the first tournament to implement new ball technology and it was around that time that general feel and style of football changed from the turn of the century style to the modern style.
>>68537774
meant for >>68537559
>>68536793
skill is actually better today because most pro players these days are freestylers which means better ball control.
>>68536793
We were much better thats for sure
I think it's because fitness levels are a lot better nowadays
The lads who stood out took care of themselves and had more time to pull off skills and things
Nowadays everybody is super fit and efficiency is valued far more than ever. Look at Ronaldo for example and how he has changed his game
>>68537737
>owen better than müller
no wonder you english cucks overrate your team the whole time
>>68536935
>Spain, Poland, Belgium, Chile, Colombia, Wales, Croatia
Turkey, Romania, Sweden, Nigeria, Cameroon, Ivory Coast, Ghana, Serbia/Yugoslavia, Czech Republic all had a lot, lot better teams back then.
>>68537974
Where is Muller's ballon d'or mate?
Prime Owen was lethal
>>68537741
No just no
Nowadays, the moment a 18 year old shows any kind of promise, clubs like Real, Chelsea, the Manchester clubs, etc buy him, put him on a one billion yuro p/w contract and that's it. The player is already living the dream while being 10 years away from his prime age, no need to keep improving. Why do you think extremely talented players like Sterling went from tearing shit up at Liverpool to doing absolutely fuckall at City overnight? The league didn't change, his skill level didn't change, it's just that he doesn't need to keep trying when he's already earned the big moneys. Same thing happened to others, same thing will happen again to, say, Sané if City get him.
>>68537913
you mean from 2008 where he was actually influential in a match compared to now where he just stands around waiting for a cross
>>68538009
>muh ballon d'or
well, tell me how many euro/world tournaments owen won
>>68537741
Ahahahahahahahahshahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahhahahhahahhahahahhahaahhahahahahahhahahhahhahahahhhahah
>>68536793
We killed old football, and created a more efficient way of playing.Thank Spain and Barça the current football situation
>>68537995
Iceland, Uruguay, Peru, Japan, Australia, Costa Rica, Hungary, Austria, Slovakia all have better teams now than back then, we can do this all day
Wow, it's almost as if some teams get better and some get worse.
>>68536793
there are a handful of really good players from not great national teams right now.
suarez, bale, hazard, lewa, modric, sanchez, de bruyne, vidal are all probably top 25 individuals that aren't on traditional powerhouse teams.
Maybe this was always the case, it just seems like talent is more spread out now
>>68537745
Does anyone remember Messi delivering even when playing in a team filled with top tier players? No? Really? Me neither.
>>68538344
Me either. It's funny because all his teams are stacked and still can't do shit. Ronaldo has been much better for Portugal then Messi for Argentina
>>68538476
When has Ronaldo been better for his NT?
>>68537053
They mindlessly hate us, I love it. They always fall for the bait.
>>68537240
https://rutube.ru/video/25a94f49dca2f94544bdd46e8d59aea3/
2008 Spain was GOAT(not biased obviously) Del Bosque made it into a boring team later
>>68538476
He might win this Copa América for Argentina.
No doubt most ABMs would consider it a Mickey Mouse trophy, but still.
>>68538329
Japan was better back then IMO
>you now remember Hidetoshi Nakata
>>68537403
2008 Spain was way more fluid.2010 was more stable.
>>68537419
Iniesta is god like and probaly would have been the best player of his generation if he was born 10 years ago.This generation would rape in a match the 2002-2004 teams
>>68538763
Still shit results in international matches.
>>68538913
uh, so nothing changed?
>>68538967
At the core, yes.
But they had more flair in the past.
>>68538762
Especially this one. If they win it doesn't even count
>>68537419
Can you please take a look at a 19 year old Messi clowning Cannavaro? Cannavaro won the Ballon d'Or that year.
>>68539012
Eh, it's still a Copa América, Messi hasn't won any silverware for the actual NT and he's the best player in the world, he needs to become legendary with at least an international title, his team is still stacked with amazing players and they haven't won anything after all these years.
>>68539134
>He was retiring already!
>>68539134
Cannavaro lost form after 2006 WC, 2006-2008 he was a shadow of his former self despite 2 league titles with RM. Same with Roberto Carlos
>>68539134
Nostalgia fags BTFO.This without mentioning that players like Xavi or Iniesta pobably are the best in their position historically
>>68539134
Undeservingly so. Ronaldinho should have won that year. Everyone makes someone look stupid Messi isn't special
>>68539236
>But they are from the last generation!
>This gen is shit, SHIT!
>>68539236
BTFO because 33 year old Cannavaro could not adapt to a new league after a tiring World Cup? Don't you remember how terrible Thuram was in Barca?
>>68537623
What about multiball ?
>>68539194
>his team is still stacked with amazing players and they haven't won anything after all these years.
Argentina lacks the midfield that is needed to win in current football.That is why both Spain and Germany have dominated the last couple of years at a national level.
>>68538191
Explain this picture
Is there an underlying joke ?
>>68537623
Penalties should definitely be reviewed. Challenge flags are a stupid idea though
>>68539395
After Barcelona lost a game, Xavi complained to the press that the grass was too long
>>68539194
That is all true and this isn't even a real copa America it's an anniversary thing so even if they win it doesn't matter. Even less so than a normal copa America
>>68537623
nice proxy, ameriburger
>>68539364
I agree, but you can still win with such an stacked attack like Argentina possesses now (their defence is still, good enough). It's just that the choking is real.
>>68539395
Yeah, Xavi when BArça started losing, used the grass as an excuse for their defeats.It was a big joke here
>>68539415
Challenge flags are the only way to get rid of diving manbabies.
>>68539493
But I'm a purebred Mongol.
>>68539487
It's still a real Copa América by rule, still not the "actual" 4year-event, so it could be disregarded by most (still, winning it might help Argentina in the next WC).
>>68539502
But most teams tend t park the bus/presionar very hard.Without good mildfielders to crack the box, it is very hard to win.
>>68539661
its a joke of a tournament, nobody on SA is giving a shit about the "prestige", because it have none. We are watching this shit as a preparation for the Eliminatorias. Thats the real shit, and so do was the last year Copa. The winner of this Mickey Mouse cup cant even compete in Conmemefederaciones. What a joke.
>>68539661
Yeah by rule people won't really consider it tho. Where is the next WC anyway?
>>68537623
>lets make the game quicker by stopping it more
>>68537724
Aguero is fucking overrated as well as the PL, him being an historically good finisher inflates his total worth as a player thus people considering him world class
>>68539995
Aguero has very good technique and dribling techniques.The main problem is that he is made of glass.
>>68539719
I do agree with that too. But after a full tournament pressing is more difficult, even like that they couldn't score against Germany (choking hard) and choked with Chile in penalties.
>>68539860
Dunga still got fired, though.
Even if most people consider it a joke, the matches haven't been dreadful, ironically.
>>68539919
2018.
>>68539995
Agüero has terrible luck/form to shine for Argentina, sadly. He's a player with no excuse though, just like Messi.
>>68538151
trophies from tournaments are given to the best team and does not show how good a player is, however the ballon D'or is awarded for the best individual
Retards who say "it's only nostalgia" weren't around back then.
Just compare who is now wearing the main numbers in major NTs, shirt to shirt:
>Brazil #9
2002: Ronaldo
2016: Jonas (literally who)
>France #10
2002: Zidane
2016: Gignac (lol)
>Portugal #9
2002: Pauleta
2016: Eder (3 goals in 27 games)
>Italy #9
2002: Inzaghi
2016: Pellè (not the black one)
And you're telling me there's no drop in quality? None of these players would even have been on the bench 15 years ago.
>>68538032
andreas pereira is rotting at the bench, in fact not even listed for the bench at united.
he isn't strong enough to play there so it's frustrating that ManU even bought him (and a bunch of other youngsters as well), he doesn't get any play time. Instead he could/should be playing at clubs like Ajax, Santos, PSV, Sttutgart or whatever.
>>68540254
>muh shirt numbers
>>68540254
Truth
>>68537559
>15-20 strikers
Name them. Strikers.
>>68540254
>those 4 specific positions at those 4 specific teams got worse
>therefore football is shit
further confirmation that nostalgiababbies are literally dumb
>Uruguay #9
2002: Dario Silva
2016: Luis Suarez
>Germany #8
2002: Geremi Njitap
2016: Mesut Ozil
>Spain #6
2002: Ruben Baraja
2016: Andres Iniesta
>Argentina #10
2002: Ariel Ortega
2016: Lionel Messi
>Sweden #10
2002: Markus Allback
2016: Zlatan Ibrahimovic
Explain this, nostalgiafags
>>68540254
Ignoring the fact that the selcetions that perform the best in this period were Spain,the netherlands,Germany and Uruguay.If we do a comparison with this teams, the whole thing changes.NT fall and rise, is dumb to just compare weak NT with the stronger counterpart, ignoring all the great NTs
>>68540712
Bale is a striker now :O)
>>68540790
>Germany #8
>2002: Geremi Njitap
>2016: Mesut Ozil
Tip top lel. Subtle.
>>68540790
>Germany #8
>2002: Geremi Njitap
Fuck you nigger, you actually made me check.
>>68540790
>>68540882
9/10 nearly googled
>>68536793
>Only NT that has better players now than 10-15 years ago is Germany
No. Spain is an example.
Football has gotten worse TO WATCH because weak teams are not so weak anymore, they know how to defend and matches are more balanced = boring to watch.
>>68540254
cherry picking muslim fuck
fuck right off
>>68541096
>Football has gotten worse TO WATCH because weak teams are not so weak anymore
I do agree with that, some weak teams used to be such a burden against the powerhouses or better teams.
>>68541210
didn't use to be
Too many games. When the WC or Euros comes the players are at their breaking point.
>>68540712
Suarez, Eto'o, Lewandowski, Villa, Forlan, Griezmann, van Persie, Tevez, Ibrahimovic, Rooney, Benzema, Aguero, Diego Milito, Falcao, Higuain
All better players than Davor "I was bang average for 90% of my career but nostalgiababbies love me because I was good in the first World Cup they watched" Suker
>>68537371
> Italy. They went from Maldini, Nesta, Cannavaro, Pirlo, Gattuso, Totti, Del Piero, Vieri, Inzaghi etc to their current squad. Shocking.
The opposite could be said about Spain's players. Country strength is cyclical and doesn't have much influence in the discussion of "were players objectively better in the 90's or the 10's".
The answer is that players these days would crush players from the 90's.
>>68536793
The "skill" is worse because the defenders are better. They are more physically fit and tough, so for example fat Ronaldo wouldn't be a star in the current year.
>>68541250
it's not like club game is more entertaining than back then. I mean, remeber those epic games between Man Utd and Real Madrid at Old Trafford in 2000 and 2003? 2005 CL final? We don't see such epic games at this level of the competition anymore.
>>68541418
>2005 CL final was 11 years ago
shit man
>>68541336
No way Milito or Falcao are better than Zamorano was
Idk about quality but it's a lot more boring to watch now than it was back then
>>68537741
Roberto Carlos alone was better than these combined.
The problem is all the good outfield players now are AMs. There are virtually no world class defenders and hardly any great strikers.
>>68537392
Maniche still haunts my dreams
>>68541367
Spain 2002 or 2006 was nowhere near as talentless and todays Italy. Raul, Morientes, Hierro, Salgado, Canizares, Luis Enrique, Baraja, Albelda, Diego Tristan, Valeron, Vicente, all very talented players. They also already had young Puyol, Xavi, Torres and Villa.
>>68537500
You cannot honestly believe there had never been better players than those people.
>>68541418
Liverpool - Dortmund 2016
>>68537392
>Says the guy that has won nothing for more than 50 years.
At least they won something
Brazil has declined. They peaked at 2002 with Ronaldo, Rivaldo and Ronaldinho.
>>68537741
>Lewa better than Ronaldo
>Neymar better than Ronaldinho
What the fuck is wrong with you?
>>68537500
>>68541651
Everyone thinks their generation is the greatest ever when they're young
>>68541720
Neymar is just a couple steps behind Ronaldinho, sadly.
>>68537913
I agree with you, my british amigo. I'd like to also add that watching videos/studying tatics is more accessible to everyone today
>>68541393
lmao
Modern football focuses too much on possession, it's better to win 1-0 than 3-2.
Even players like Messi, Ronaldo hold back and pass around too much while they can literally run through the whole defence and score.
It's more about efficient and precise passing now than individual skills.
>>68542029
that's another thing, back then offensive players were a lot more brave and imaginative, today they are pragmatic, safe and boring
I remember reading few years ago that Roberto Baggio was given a task to see how good is youth training in Italy and was shocked and depressed to discover that kids are scolded for taking risk, trying to dribble through defence, play backheel passes etc.
>>68540809
Want to compare 2002 and 2016 Netherlands, though?
About the fact that Uruguay (a small nation) is outperforming Italy or Brazil (big countries who were consistently great for decades), isn't it a bit worrying?
>>68541148
Not cherry picking. Just compare all shirt numbers from France, Italy, Brazil, Argentina, Netherlands... 2000 vs 2015. Some modern players win easily (Messi, Robben, etc.) but the large majority of players is mediocre in comparison.
Micoud was perpetually benched 15 years ago in French NT. Today he would be the NT's leader by far. And France is the most likely to win this Euro 2016 (according to the bookmakers)... See the problem?
football, boxing.. athletes get better and better but they also wanna be more careful.
thank god there's still tennis. tennis players can't time waste, it will never get boring.
>>68536935
but none of those teams is comparable to the good teams from 10/15 years ago.
Perhaps spain could come close., but the total quality has gone down
>>68542305
He had no defence, so no, he wouldn't be the leader of this team.
>>68541418
Dortmund Madrid were pretty dope both times. And BArça vs MAdrid in the Mourinho era were pretty great in general
>>68541572
Marcelo was better than Roberto Carlos ever was. RC is just overrated because he was a very unique kind of player.I have seen both on live and Marcelo was just better technically and I would argue that in defending too
Duh. Can't you tell by the hyper fast increase in scoring. In the old days defense used to matter.
Used to be 1-0 grinders. Now it's 2-0 excitoball for adhd kids
2 scores in 90 minutes. Wtf is that garbage??
>>68542225
>depressed to discover that kids are scolded for taking risk, trying to dribble through defence, play backheel passes etc.
So kids are coached to play smart instead of try to be a hero and lose possession a large majority of the time and this is supposed to be bad?
Maybe you just like tricks with a ball and not the sport of football.
>>68536793
National teams who meet up for 2 weeks per year have nothing on grown teams such as those coached by Mourinho, Pep, Ancelotti.
>>68542848
Marcelo will be forgotten as soon as he retires
>>68542305
The netherlands in 2002 didnt even make it into the worldcup.2010 Netherlands was way better than the 2002 counter part.And Uruguay is a legendary NT squad.They have the most copa America's in history and 2 world cups.I dont really see how it is surprising that a NT that performs usually well, does well
>>68536793
Upvote if you were born in the right generation!
Seriously, you're nostalgic for fucking Deco? Jesus.
>>68541393
dude people are saying that italy has the best defense this season and those guys were literally the reserves of italy's defense 4 and 6 years ago.
>>68542848
Yup, Roberto Carlos is the definition of an overrated player. His amazing long shooting goals are the reason why most people remember him in the first place, great attacking skills but dreadful defence.
>>68543003
I like the sport of football. I loved the sport of football back when it was A LOT more entertaining and magical to watch.
Back then players had imagination, they had their own unique style as well. Now it's like watching 11 robots run around. With the exception of few players there is no spark anymore, it's just so safe, and predictable, and boring, and defensive. It's supposed to be entertainment, remember?
>>68543109
Irrelevant.RC was a crappy defender, that was just very potent.He would be a sub to Marcelo, in the current Madrid squad
>>68536793
these BRs honestly disgust me
>>68536793
What is time, what is experience, what is growing library of resources, who are ex pro coaches?
As a game grows, people learn from each other. If a team uses x tactic for so long, people adapt to stop it. The game of football in general has changed to become a more club focused sport.
You are expecting players who are on competing teams all year to suddenly work in perfect unison 'for the glory of x'
>>68542848
Marcelo is a meme. Always clueless where he should be positioned, dives, funny hair that makes people empathize, all he's gotta do is cross to Crisnaldo. Type of chemistry dani has with Messi, doesn't mean dani alves is some goat-tier rb, far from it.
Meanwhile Roberto Carlos was a beast.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjpPWiGPfYI&t=2m34s
>>68543323
>You are expecting players who are on competing teams all year to suddenly work in perfect unison 'for the glory of x'
As crazy as it sounds, most fans and the press in this continent do think like that.
>>68543168
>I like the sport of football. I loved the sport of football back when it was A LOT more entertaining and magical to watch.
No old player were as magical as Iniesta or Messi ever was, you are just nostalgic
>>68543323
as I said club football was a lot more entertaining too, 1999 Man Utd vs Juve, 1999 CL final, Man Utd vs Real Madrid 2000 and 2003, 2005 CL final. Chelsea vs Barca 2005, Liverpool vs Alaves Uefa Cup final 2001 etc.
Now vast majority of knockout stage games in UCL are boring. It used to be that most games were good and when a bad one happened (2003 CL final) everyone was disgusted by it. Now most games are bad and when a good one happens everybody loses their shit from excitement because they are not used to it.
I blame the media and the big clubs, the media only focus in Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi and games with big clubs, like real vs barca, Lazio vs Roma or Liverpool vs Manchester. In other hand the big clubs buy young and talented players that only sit in the bench, because they need more experience and they can't be compared with already talented and experienced players.
Before players would travel around the world and they would play in different leagues, getting experience, but now they are buyed from shitty leagues when the are young and people expect them to play like good against seasoned pros in the big leagues, without the chance to grown because they need to meet objectives in a limited time and they never play real games.
>>68543431
>Cherry picking much
Marcelo is more consistent, more technical and defends better,Roberto Carlos barely knew how to defend.If we faced someone like Messi, he would be a living joke.
>>68543593
This is not as bad as it sounds, then.
>>68543585
Ronaldinho was and forever will be the most magical player to me. But that's mostly because he played when I played the most and everyone wanted to emulate him.
Only Messi got even slightly close for me desu.
>>68537637
Owen in his prime was Fatnaldo tier. Too bad it didn't last.
>>68543585
no, you could argue that no old player was as good, but magical? Zidane was more magical and entertaining than Iniesta, Iniesta is great, maybe even better, but also a lot safer, Zidane took more risks, played with more imagination and produced more magical plays because of that. Iniesta is just part of a machine, a brilliant part yes, but still, he's too much like Xavi. He will rather make a back pass than take a risk.
Messi could be a lot more entertaining player too if he took more risks. Sure, he would lose the ball more often but would also produce a lot more spectacular goals and magical dribbles/passes.
>>68537419
Messi is the greatest I've seen and I'm really fucking old. Maradonna a long way second.
>>68539474
>>68539509
hilarious to see that madman Mou trolling them by letting the grass at Santiago Bernabéu grow and leaving it dry as fuck
>>68543825
Ronaldinho was magical, but I really dont see him to be lose to Messi,maybe because he faded too fast,and Messi had more time to build its carrer, but players like Kaka,Zidane or Riquelme are highly overrated.
>>68543676
Marcelo's shit, doesn't know how to defend, it isn't all about tackle, he always gets balls behind his back unnecessarily. Marcelo IS a living joke, just got lucky this year for facing mostly weak teams like Roma, Wolfsburg, City.
Filipe Luis is unironically twice the player, just watch his game against Barça in the CL where he was pivotal both in defense and attack (started the counter-attack that led to the penalty, made a lot of successful dribbles throughout the whole match, even nutmegged opponents if my memory doesn't fail).
>>68543915
Maybe post surgery Ronaldo.
>>68544077
I agree my Spanish friend.
It would be a match though, Ronaldinho v Messi in their prime.
>>68543927
Zidane was irregular as fuck,and the things that he did were just flashy.Iniesta has a control of the ball, that I have barely seen in my life.He is onl overshadowed by Messi.I recomend you to take a look at an average game from Zidane vs one of Iniesta, you will see that Iniesta has more control of everything, and is way more regular
>>68544111
>Marcelo's shit, doesn't know how to defend, it isn't all about tackle, he always gets balls behind his back unnecessarily. Marcelo IS a living joke
All of this could be used to describe Roberto Carlos. If /sp/ was around in late 90s/early 00s he'd be called the biggest meme player in the world
>>68543168
Except for the Dutch, European Football has always been defending and save play.
Go watch Copa America if you don't like it.
>>68540790
i'm confused, anon, are you going by the number of the role of the player (i.e. 9 is the striker) or actual jersey number??
cause xavi and iniesta switch between the 6 and the 8
in barcelona
>xavi 6
>iniesta 8
in national team
>xavi 8
>iniesta 6
baraja wore number 8 with spain and valencia but he had the number 10 during the qualifiers for 2002
and fuck you for implying baraja is trash, the guy was an amazing midfielder
>>68544624
This.RC was cancer in defence.If he was alive today, he would probably be benched in important games.Players like Messi would oblitarate him
>>68544624
Marcelo has all the cons R.C. has, plus he dives, isn't as strong or fast, is more tactically clueless, has a good crossing but only when he pauses near the edge of the box while R.C. used to go all the way using his speed, can't take FKs.
>>68544480
more control of everything, how is that supposed to equal being more magical and entertaining? my point still stands, Iniesta might be better, definitely more regular, but Zidane was a lot more entertaining to watch. I mean, you actually wrote that no old player was as magical as Iniesta which is retarded.
What about Ronaldinho? Check this out -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEG_X8Dy2dM
>>68544949
MArcelo is way better defencding than RC ever was, and he isnt even that great.
>>68543167
>His amazing long shooting goals are the reason why most people remember him in the first place
I think it's more because he was the shit in the first FIFA's and Winning-11's we ever played.
>>68544923
>>68544949
Marcelo is only good at pushing the ball up field and his understanding with Cristiano is world class
I also think we're giving Marcelo a hard time because sometimes I would see him be the only one marching up the field and giving his all for the team he played fantastic in the 2014 Champions League final
good player but he would benefit more in a 3 man back line he would be perfect in Juventus opposite Lichtsteiner but they went with Alves
>>68536793
The last decade?
The sport was utterly destroyed at the turn of the century. The only reason you still had good players for a while after that was because they were raised playing proper 20th century football.
The plastic boots, ball, and semi plastic pitches, plus the protection of the ball carrier, have turned it from a profound field sport into another court sport.
So you see as tonight - Poland with 11 men around their own penalty area for 90 mins. You might as well, - because if you try to play deeper, it is so easy to keep possession in deep now for the other team - you might as well keep funneling back and back and back.
Ball striking is dead - because any side foot shovel will skid the ball as far as it needs to go - and shooting is literally hit and hope.
Everything creative and skillful is more difficult in modern conditions - whats easier is retaining posession, repetition of technique and covering ground in your lightweight slippers.
Thanks capitalism.
>>68536960
>not rating Adriano
The guy was unstoppable until his mentality cracked.
>>68545444
>So you see as tonight - Poland with 11 men around their own penalty area for 90 mins.
Did you watch the fucking game?
>>68537419
Pretty sure you were a joga vomito bandwagonner in the mid 2000s.
>>68545548
Yes. They sat outside their own penalty area the entire fucking game like they were San Marino.
But I suppose you never saw football back when it didn't suck a thousand cocks, so it probably seemed normal to you.
>>68545635
>Yes. They sat outside their own penalty area the entire fucking game like they were San Marino.
And created better chances than Germany.
>>68545660
But no one on the team did any ebin stepovers and Cruyff turns like my childhood idol Zidane used to, so the game was shit xD
>>68545548
And in one sense it is normal - for modern football - teams are literally taking turns to cower in their penalty areas and midfield play is just a memory.
>>68545660
Agreed. You'll note its the entire sport since the year 2000 I'm dissing, not Poland tonight.
Cause the sport is too saturated now
>>68545162
RC never lost 7 to 1.
Hope Marcelo never touches the national shirt again.
>>68536793
The WCs with the lowest goal scores where 74 and 90 (both won by Germany).
What you remember is the highlights shown in television not the endless boring parts.
Just of the era now only the good parts will be shown in the future.
You're just a typical Nostalgic fag.
I for myself enjoyed the game today. It had its moments, it was very tough and both teams worked a lot.
It was tense to watch.
>>68545837
2010 was second lowest behind '90.
Kids don't wanna be footballers these days most kids i knew who were good atheletes growing up are now Personal Trainers or some shit like that, when on the playground ppl used to call them the next Maradona
Then they end up in some shitty college doing "sports science" and amount to nothing
Sports are overesaturated now full stop and I think the culture of everyone going to uni now is hampering player development, education often comes before football for decent players which is seen as leisure
I think there's a lot less big game players than there used to be.
>>68545896
My source seems heavily outdated:
https://medienwerkstatt-online.de/lws_wissen/vorlagen/showcard.php?id=7762&edit=0
>>68545837
except I'm not talking about fucking WC 1990, I'm not that ancient, but rather WC 1998 and Euro 2000, two best football parties I had the pleasure to witness. Everyone who watched those tournaments knows that there's no chance we will every witness another one that entertaining and it hurts us because we love this sport.
>inb4 WC 2014
Only group stages and 7-1 were good, most knockout games were typical boring, defensive tactical battles.
>>68545972
It was Spain in the first place that caused this tactic switch.
They showed a very efficient and very succesful way to play and others learned from it.
Earlier or later something new that works against this tactic will be discovered.
Sad that the dutch aren't there.
>>68545945
http://www.fifa.com/fifa-tournaments/statistics-and-records/worldcup/
1990 2.2 per match
2010 2.3
2006 2.3
1974 2.6
>>68543137
Netherlands in 2016 didn't make it either. It's my point. Now I think Seedorf, Bergkamp, Davids, Kluivert, the De Boer brothers... were a bit more impressive than the "literally who" who begin to be in the 2016 starting squad.
Uruguay has always been solid, my point is that the greats aren't great anymore.
Maybe when every NT will be 10 literally who + the eventual Bale or Neymar, you'll see the issue...
>>68546074
The dutch started great in 2008. If they had won things might have been slightly different. Like the 1982 moment.
>>68543431
now everyone watch that vid and tell me how football wasnt more entertaining back then
>Ronaldo in counterattack memeing
>Ortega trashing the entire Brazil d
Shit is too plastic and calculated nowadays
>>68543431
>>68546207
literally generic hoofballing, counterattacks and memeballing.
the only thing that's different from a bunch of kids playing after school is more pace and better ball control.
It's not just the fun players either
>Good Euro 2000 defenders
Maldini
Cannavaro
Nesta
Ferrara
Thuram
Lizarazu
Desailly
Blanc
Stam
De Boer
Campbell
Adams
Neville
Couto
Hierro
Mihajlovic
>Good Euro 2016 defenders
Boateng
Hummels
Ramos
Vertonghen
Alderweireld
Chiellini
Bonnuci
Barzagli
>Pepe
>>68546207
found a nice gems at 24min (video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KHfEbnJitI
Shit, /sp/ if full of retards, some teams of better and some got worse.
There are less pure stickers than 20 years ago, but Suárez can only be compared with Ronaldo.
It's sad to see Netherlands, Brazil and African teams with shit teams, but even without them, we've had a great generation. Messi (literally the goat), C. Ronaldo, Rooney, Iniesta, Neuer, Buffon, Eto'o, Lewandowski, Suárez, Busquets, Xavi, Puyol, Neymar Drogba, Robben, Bale, Van Persie, Busquets, Torres, Muller, Piqué, Boateng, Hummels, Bonucci, Chiellini, Pirlo, Xabi Alonso, Villa, Benzema, Modric, Casillas, Forlan, Godin, Agüero, Lahm, Yaya Toure, Ozil, Ramos, Vidal, Schweinsteiger, Mascherano, T. Silva, Tevez...
All generations gave good players, and we'll probably overrate this generation in a few years.
>>68546552
and as for the forwards. Just rom the OP image there is ronaldo who is just as good as messi, possibly ronaldinho too, and all the others who are as good or better than C ronaldo and ibrahimovic.
And that's from just one team.Zidane was just as good as messi. And there were many players as good as C ronaldo or ibrahimovic in other teams. Just for italy you had pirlo, del piero, totti, inzaghi.
>>68546857
>Zidane was just as good as messi
Post discarded
>>68546844
Some teams got better*
>>68546891
as good or better, that wasn't the point
Poland has better NT mate
>>68547060
>as good or better
holy shit hahahahha
The only thing Zidane was better at than Messi was fancy tricks.
>>68546891
Zidane won a world cup; messi did not
>>68546891
he was Messi of his position, you can't compare them to be honest. That's like comparing Xavi and C.Ronaldo, you can't, two different positions, two different roles.
>inb4 Iniesta is better
Zidane was literally Iniesta and Xavi morphed into one player. He wasn't very regular in the league but showed up for big games and in his top form he was simply magical, an artist. There was something sublime, subtle about his style of play. Soundtrack for most legendary players like Maradona etc. is samba, something fast paced, fun, excting. Soundtrack for Zidane is classical music.
>>68547117
ahh, the Pedro > Cruyff theory at work
And if you want to use team trophies to compare players
8 league titles >>>>> 3 league titles
4 CL trophies >>> 1 CL trophy
4 domestic cups >>>>>> 0 domestic cups
1 World Cup > 0 World Cups
1 Euro > 0 Copas America
there is a clear winner here
It's much less entertaining, I think the amount of money involved means teams play safer but more boring defensive play.
>>68547110
you must be a Barca fan honestly
fancy tricks? you make it sound like he was some fucking brazilian circus clown doing tricks for no reason. Or that mexican guy whose signature move was jumping with the ball between his legs.
>>68547152
>he was Messi of his position, you can't compare them to be honest.
You can't compare them because Messi is so much better he transcends positions.
You can compare Messi's playmaking with Zidane and it would be close.
You can compare Messi's dribbling with Maradona and it would be close
You can compare Messi's goalscoring with Gerd Muller and it would be close.
>>68547199
Zidane was better at stepovers and Cruyff turns. Messi shits on him from heaven above when it comes to actual dribbling as in getting past your marker.
Maradona carried a shit team to a world cup. Messi will never do that.
>nostalgia fags unironicaly think Zidane was better than Messi.
Prime Ronaldinho was better than Prime Zidane.
>>68547317
Hell, Zidane was rarely even the best player on his teams.
young Del Piero was better than him at Juve and the team went from winning the title to finishing like 7th when he blew out his knee.
And then at Real a fat, post injury Ronaldo was better.
If you want to compare someone from that era to Messi then please use Ronaldo. Zidane is not even in their galaxy
>>68547241
>getting past your marker
I'm not sure you understand what role Zidane had on the pitch. Comparing him to Messi is pointless, compare him to Laudrup, Modric or Lampard. Brazilian Ronaldo was Messi of that era and it would be pretty stupid to compare Ronaldo and Zidane because they played in different positions, logic.
Also, let me remind you that this whole thing started as Iniesta vs Zidane and you brought Messi into it for some retarted reason. What's next?
Me - hey, remember Nesta? No central back today comes close to him in his prime
You - Messi something something
>>68547396
>I'm not sure you understand what role Zidane had on the pitch
Messi is just as good as Zidane at Zidane's role on the pitch while also being able to fulfil a million different roles.
>Also, let me remind you that this whole thing started as Iniesta vs Zidane and you brought Messi into it for some retarted reason. What's next?
No, it started as some nostalgiababby shitting on modern players and actually claiming that Zidane is just as good or better than Messi.
>>68547317
reminder that Prime Ronaldinho got schooled by 34 old Zidane
And again, different positions. You can compare Ronaldinho with Figo if you want, not Zidane. It's just stupid. You can't even compare Pirlo and Alonso with Zidane even though they are playmakers too, they play way too deep, and you guys bring up Messi and Ronaldinho.
Honestly, are you Barca fans? I'm only asking because only people I know that get so worked up saying that Zidane was overrated are cules. Heck, I know Barca fans who think Riquelme was better. Yes, you can compare him with Riquelme.
Messi>>>>>C.Ronaldo>>all GOATs of mid 90s to mid 00s
After that there's only a handful of current players that measure up to the previous generation - Iniesta, Suarez, Busquets, maybe Neymar.
Also notice how all but one of those play for one team. Club competition has gone to shit.
>>68547487
>I'm only asking because only people I know that get so worked up saying that Zidane was overrated are cules.
The only people who say that Zidane was overrated are people who watched Zidane play at Juventus and Real. And by watched Zidane play I mean actually watched him on a week to week basis and not just tuned in to see the world cup and the CL knockouts.
>>68547540
only thing that works for C.Ronaldo today is number of goals he scores in club game, other than that with some exception (Wolfsburg 2nd leg) he is completely useless. It's hard to rate him. If he was a center forward he would be the best ever but he's a fucking winger for christ sakes.
>>68547213
>>68547241
oh I see, you're a fanboy. Now it makes sense.
>>68546844
accurate post
shut up pollack
>>68536793
Messi > Ronaldo > Ronaldinho > CR7 > Rivaldo > Kaka
>>68547547
you really watched him on a week to week basis at Juve? Also times were different back then, you didn't have Real and Barca getting between 90 and 100 points every season. That was especially true in pre-calciopoli Serie A were every team went out on the pitch with "I'd rather murder him that let him score" mentality.
And it's no secret that Galacticos were a bunch of spoiled prima donnas who didn't show up for many games against smaller opponents. For the first 3 years under Del Bosque they showed up for big games. For example I remember in 2002/2003 season Madrid played a magical, absolutely out of this world game against Man Utd and Bernabeu (3-1, should have been a massacre but ref didnt give 2 clear penalties) only to lose next 2 league games playing like shit IIRC. They lost to Mallorca 1-5 at Bernabeu that season too. It's just motivation. At this point Zidane was 30+ and won both WC and CL.
>>68547646
Good argument.
How many times did Zidane take the ball, dribbled past 5 players and scored or laid it out for a team mate? Because Messi does shit like this literally every few weeks.
>>68547778
>you really watched him on a week to week basis at Juve?
The first game I ever saw was the 1997 CL final (his first year at Juve)
>>68547173
1 World Cup > 300 league titles
Most German players of the past that were considered the best in their teams like sepp maier, beckenbauer, hässler, rahn, matthäus, gerd müller, effenberg or paul breitner would not be fielded today. Todays players are more versatile, quicker, have better endurance and are better technically. And mind you I just named players from the first 3 WC we won that were considered outstanding (except Effenberg who at least won a Euro Cup).
.
>>68547732
agreed
>>68547816
Where did I mention goals?
And does this also mean that Arbeloa > Maldini?
Brazil haven't played good football since the 80s
>>68547823
I said that Germany is the only footballing power that got better (I didn't mention Spain because a lot of their golden generation stars already retired)
Also Effenberg would take Khediras place in the starting XI. He was a lot better.
