Let's settle this, right here right now
Who's the player you rate higher
>>65952602
Anyone above 170cm
>>65952602
Messi.
/thread
Riquelme>Messi>Maradona
>higher
Maradona hands down.
>snorting lines off of World Cup trophy
Bautistuta
Messi
because he's a better passer, a better dribbler and a better scorer, quite simply a better player by far
Maradona. Messi is a Barca babby.
Messi, obviously. He's the best player to ever play the game.
Maradona dindunuffin
>>65952602
maradroga, he has a personality at least
>>65952602
Messi
Maradona had a few good seasons in Napoli and a meme world cup. Great player, but nothing to write home about.
I always thought Messi was the best player of all time the way /sp/ talks about him.
He may not even be the best player in Argentina's history?
>american flag
Disgusting.
>>65953100
>He may not even be the best player in Argentina's history?
Argentina has a history of producing individual GOATs, But Messi is quite easily the best of them all.
The only argument for Maradona is that he performed like a god in one 7 game tournament (and still needed to cheat to win it)
>>65952602
Maradona so unbelievably overrated the other plays for the greatest team ever so yeah both a little overrated have to say messi tho
Maradona to play cups
Messi to play leagues
>>65953144
>cheating as argument for a guy that played his whole life at barcelona
>>65953480
ueafalona amirite xD XD xD
messi is literally a xaviesta babby
so maradona obviously
>>65952602
>Handball
>HGH
>i rate Maradona
>>65953549
>xavi in qatar
>iniesta on a serious decline
>messi is still goat
?????????
>>65953689
>xaviesta wins world cup + euro cup without messi
>messi can't win shit without xaviesta
>messi is still goat
????????
>>65953741
To be fair, Messi got to 2 massive finals.
Also, to be fair, Messi should've opted to play for Spain.
>>65953689
>iniesta on a serious decline
hes not as good as he used to be, but is obvious because hes past 30 now and still won the treble last year
>>65953741
I think Messi is a choker with Argentina, but Argentina is worse than Barca, far worse.
>>65953741
exactly, being the GOAT is not about checking down a list of trophies and achievements. It's about consistently playing better than anyone before. And Messi does exactly that
>>65953689
>iniesta on a serious decline
I hate this meme, he even get standing ovation at el clasico this season
>>65953799
>iniesta is just as good as he was in 09-11
did you start watching football last year? 5 years ago he was giving performances like the El Clasico one every other week.
>>65952744
>>65952602
i said to myself before i checked the country of the person who uploaded this "i bet this was a yank" hmm
>>65953777
>but Argentina is worse than Barca, far worse
sure, NTs can't compare with clubs, but messi dickriders always make it like he plays with fucking armenia or something
They're both cheaters so I don't rate them at all. CR7 despite his flaws is a better player and a better person than both of them.
>>65954107
well this is true. I mean Messi has been in the NT with 5 coaches in 10 years.
5 COACHES! He hasnt won anything with 5 coaches in 10 years besides a gold medal he wasnt even the best player on the team.
>>65952688
Roman is my favorite player ever but no
>>65954107
Maybe not Armenia but without him they're Colombia/Paraguay tier, as evidenced by current WC qualifications
>>65954200
>5 COACHES!
I don't understand this argument. Should the amount of coaches positively correlate with the amount of trophies won?
>>65954254
It means Messi has failed to play at the same level at Barca with 5 different tactic systems, and serves as proof that Messi wouldnt be as good if he joined other team.
>>65954302
>5 different tactic systems
Wow, you're saying Martino is the shit right?
Argentina coaches have been shit since years.
>>65954302
>It means Messi has failed to play at the same level at Barca with 5 different tactic systems
And now we see how good this team is without him. Behind the World Cup qualification spots and with 2 goals scored in 4 games. Obviously it means that Messi is the problem.
>serves as proof that Messi wouldnt be as good if he joined other team.
Rijkaard's team, Guardiola's team and Enrique's team are all vastly different teams, both personnel and tactics wise and he performed in all of them. Staying at one club for all your career does't mean you only play on one team.
>>65954348
you are right, Argentina should hire Pep or Low asap so Messi can play good.
>>65954382
you operate under a false assumption that Messi playing badly is the reason why they can't win anything.
meanwhile Messi playing like he does is the reason why they even qualify for the World Cups
>>65954382
Wait, are you one of those RM fans like our press that loathes everything messi does?
Winning a world cup is much more dignified than joining a foreign legion and winning for Qatar.
Ask not what (Spain) can do for you. Ask what you could do (world cup) for your country.
>>65954438
>Winning a world cup is much more dignified than joining a foreign legion and winning for Qatar.
we're not discussing who's more dignified. we're discussing who's the better player and that's objectively Messi
>>65954405
I never said Messi is the responsible of Argentina losing. Check the last posts. I just said he doesnt delivers at the same level as Barca in Argentina, and its not because his team of the coach total fault. The Argentinian shirt is just to heavy for him, because hes not the kind of guy who can carry a team that doesnt have total faith on him. On Barca Messi can be 1 year without scoring and people will still defend him.
"Messi is Maradona every day".
t. Jorge Valdano Barbosa
literally the guy that played with Maradona and for Real Madrid.
>>65954463
>too heavy for him
You mean for his teammates, that can't score golden chances?
>>65954434
of course not, i support Barca, but not because i like them, i just like see RM crumble because that teams represents everything thats bad in modern football. But i cant say Messi is the GOAT if he cant be mentally superior to Maradona.
>>65954463
>I just said he doesnt delivers at the same level as Barca in Argentina, and its not because his team of the coach total fault.
He doesn't because Argentina's midfielders can't pass, the full backs can't cross and the strikers are erratic finishers at the very best. Look how deep he's constantly forced to play for Argentina compared to Barcelona (webm very related)
>On Barca Messi can be 1 year without scoring and people will still defend him.
Because if you take away he's goalscoring he's still a top 5 player in the world on his dribbling and passing skills alone
>>65952602
Messi, Maradona's form wasn't as defined as Messi's is and it lacks that "smoothness" and control Messi has.
>>65954511
>Look how deep he's constantly forced to play for Argentina
Because he's easily marked out of games when he plays higher up the pitch
>>65954527
He plays higher up the pitch for Barcelona and is virtually unstoppable, I don't know what games are you watching.
He's playing deeper for Argentina because they have 0 creative midfielders on their team
>>65954458
I respect your opinion seeing as you probably grew up watching soccer.
Factually and notwithstanding objectivity or bias, however, Maradonna has more world cups than Messi which is a harder trophy to win.
>>65954494
>You mean for his teammates, that can't score golden chances?
thats the whole point of this thread. Maradona always delivered in critical moments, when the rest of the team wasted all the oportunities. Shit, even in the 90's WC final he in one feet carried the team and almost won. Messi cant do that. But in Barca they can be losing 3-0 and Messi in one half can score 5 goals alone.
>>65954527
Because Argentina's wing game is atrocious, and because they play a deeper midfield, giving defenders freedom to heavily mark the most dangerous player?
>>65954082
Cool
>>65954548
>Maradona always delivered in critical moments, when the rest of the team wasted all the oportunities.
His team mates converted 3 opportunities in the World Cup final alone.
And don't give me this "always stepped up" bullshit. He won 2 league titles and 2 domestic cups in his entire club career, doesn't seem like "always stepping up".
And he played for Napoli that was laundering a shitload of mafia money and was one of the richest clubs in the world at the time, they could afford to break the world transfer record to bring him there
>>65954572
Napoli were also playing in the most competitive league in the world, not one of the worlds richest clubs amongst a bunch of scrubs who can barely afford the seeds to grow grass on their pitch
>>65954606
La Liga is the best league in the world now and Serie A wasn't the best in the late 80s, the Premier League was
>>65954623
>La Liga is the best league in the world
Only because of two clubs. Atletico and Sevilla get some credit but the other 16 might as well not exist.
>>65954635
But Atletico are clearly better than Real right now and they consistently do well in the CL. And Sevilla, Villarreal, Bilbao and Valencia always go far in the EL.
>>65954635
Also if you look at 80s Serie A, it wasn't a very deep league either. There was the great Milan side, a decent Inter and Napoli. Both Napoli and Inter got BTFO pretty hard every time they entered the European Cup
>>65954502
It's the whole team. Messi isn't a cocaine addict like Maradona for to get THAT aggresive, also he had Batista, Valdano, and what has Messi? Higuain? Please you better be joking, Argentina NT from 86 was way better, Maradona had an easy time.
>>65954726
And Juventus, Roma?
Serie A had more depth than La Liga does now by a long fucking way. It's ridiculous to even argue otherwise. The gap between the top teams in Spain and everyone below 3rd is shameful. "Going far in the Europa League" doesn't mean anything
>>65954876
Going far in the EL is the best representation of how good a league is below CL teams. Just because England is shit in the EL doesn't mean you can pretend it doesn't matter.
By your logic every team in the premier league is shit because they don't even succeed in the CL, let along the EL
>>65954876
>And Juventus, Roma?
What about them? They had some upper mid table finishes when Napoli were winning titles and never won anything in Europe in that period
>The gap between the top teams in Spain and everyone below 3rd is shameful
There is exactly a 4 point gap between the 3rd La Liga team and the 4th La Liga team with the 4th team having beaten the 3rd one head to head.
>"Going far in the Europa League" doesn't mean anything
>a competition doesn't mean anything because I say so
alright
>>65954932
I'm not arguing about the quality of the teams, I'm arguing about the relative quality of them within their domestic league with the implication being the closer the gap between the top and the bottom the harder it will be to dominate. Barca and Real have much more resources and therefore can stroll to wins season after season (>muh Atletico). 80's Serie A wasn't so easy.
Apples and oranges, really.
Maradona played like his jockstrap was on fire.
He snorted up entire Peruvian villages, and drank and smoke and fucked bitches.
Messi plays like Jackie Chan holding a baby in a Hong Kong ladder factory on fire while being chased.
He likes Sprite and Cheese Pizza.
>>65954999
And a large reason for why Barcelona are so much better than the rest is Messi. They're also better than anyone in the CL where the resource gap isn't that big
also putting muh and a meme in front of something doesn't invalidate it. Atletico are genuinely an elite side at the moment
>>65955050
>And a large reason for why Barcelona are so much better than the rest is Messi.
And unfairly distributed revenue.
>They're also better than anyone in the CL where the resource gap isn't that big
Not really. They've only made one final in the last 5 years
>>65954999
Serie A was a corrupt joke in the 80s. They had that match fixing scandal in the early 80s and then everyone that had been punished for it was mysteriously pardoned just before the world cup. Then they had a second match fixing scandal later that decade.
>>65955074
>Not really. They've only made one final in the last 5 years
they literally won it twice in the last 5 years. you should stop lying on the internet.
They also won it 3 times in the 7 seasons since Messi entered his prime. No other team has multiple wins in that time frame. In fact, you have to go back to 2002 to find the next multiple winner in Real.
So, Messi's Barcelona - 3 CLs in 7 seasons
next best team - 2 CLs in 14 seasons
>>65955136
12: Chelsea
13: Bayern
14: Real
15: Barca
16: ???
Only once.
And maybe all those earlier wins were more to do with Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets and not Messi. It would explain why Spain dominated during that same period whilst Argentina were shit
>>65955194
Who played final in 2016?
>>65955194
>last 5 years
>counts only 4 years
Today is March 2016, 5 years ago was March 2011. Barcelona have won 2 CL titles since that time.
>And maybe all those earlier wins were more to do with Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets and not Messi.
Maybe it's not seeing as he was their best player and top scorer every single year.
Here we can see Messi being carried to the CL final by Xavi and Iniesta
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwsFYkp_r5w
Maradona. Messi is a system babby who keeps failing whenever he's not in his comfort zone.
Only sky sports babys rate Messi as the goat
>>65955315
Why sky sports? All they care about is EPL
>>65955288
This pretty much.
WC is the ultimate stage. It's the most fair way to compare all players from different nations. Maradona excelled more than anyone else so by comparison he is better than everyone else.
>>65955491
>the greatest player of all time should be decided based on a 7 game sample
le costanza face
>>65952602
Maradona.
>>65955507
the true GOAT should be able to perform on the biggest stage in football.
>>65952602
The one with a world cup
>>65955576
the true GOAT should be able to play football better than anyone else. and no one has played football as well as Messi
>>65955614
You mean the one without CL?
The one who is not a manlet
>the argentina messi meme
I wonder why Messi isnt so good with a team that has around 10 training sessions per year and never plays with same squad or tactic. Meanwhile he trains daily with his club.
>>65955962
all NT players have the same amount of time to train with each others
>>65956069
Germany and Spain had the luxury of having 6-8 players from Bayern/Barcelona in their starting XI at the last two World Cups so that's not true
>>65954873
>and what has Messi? Higuain?
Aguero, Di Maria, Mascherano, Tevez, Zabaleta etc
stop pretending like the Argentina team is shit. There is little doubt Messi hasnt played as well for them as he has Barcelona
>>65956094
Di Maria got injured in the World Cup and the Copa, Tevez is straight up awful for the NT (13 goals in almost 80 apps + missed penalty vs Uruguay), Aguero is fit and on form 1/3 of the time and Zabaleta is nothing more than a solid defender, not sure why you'd even include him, he doesn't even start for City anymore.
Mascherano is the only reliable player on this list
>>65956127
Stop pretending like its a shit team, he has had plenty of decent support from his national team over his career
Even more limited players like Enzo Perez, Lavezzi, Rojo etc would have walked into the English team at various points in their career.
Argentina is hardly a GOAT team but it is and always has been a good team. The fact that a good team + GOAT player has failed to win anything suggests that perhaps that player hasn't played as well for country as he has club.
And if Messi can only be great when he has great support, perhaps he isn't as amazing as he is made out to be.
Chile won the Copa. From 1 to 11 are they a better team than Argentina? Sure they have say 4 guys who would get into the Argie team, but you can't deny that Argentina and Messi have underperformed.
>>65955668
Maradona WC >>>>>>> Messi embarrassing himself with probably one of the worst free kicks of all time, definitely the worst in a WC ever, absolutely devastating his country and reducing his national reputation to nilch
More of a LAMB than a GOAT tbphwyfameelya
Until i see Messi play realy good at another team or his country it will always be Maradona
>>65956193
>Stop pretending like its a shit team
http://pl.soccerway.com/international/south-america/wc-qualifying-south-america/2018-russia/1st-round/r31495/
The results seem to agree that this team is pretty shit when Messi is out
>>65952602
Maradona, as much as it makes britcucks mad.
seriously though, why are brits the most obsessed with Messi?
Lol at this mad as fuck brit Messi dickrider
>>65952602
claudio paul caniggia
>>65956297
>maybe if I say he's mad it'll make it seem like he's not 100% right
clever
Messi will have to prove himself in another league like the EPL or win the WC to be the GOAT imo. Simply getting carried in barca and have the best managers (luis + pep) right now.
>>65956281
>muh short term form
oh yeah sure and based on that England is the best team in the world
we're not talking about 2015/16, we are talking about his entire international career, so 2005-2016
and for a player who is supposed to be as good as he is to have won nada suggests that he has underperformed. And if he has underperformed his ENTIRE CAREER, as he has, then perhaps he isn't as good as he is supposed to be
one of the biggest memes on /sp/ is that Messi carried Argentina to the World Cup final. The reality was that he did shit all after the group stages and wasn't even in Argentina's 2 best players. That would be Mascherano and di Maria
>>65956387
Honestly I agree
Think about the players he has played with at Barca. Dinho, Deco etc at the start.
Then Xavi, Iniesta, Henry, Eto'o etc
Now Nerman, Suarez, Busquets etc
The one team that he has played for where he hasn't had that unbelievable service, Argentina (which as stated, is hardly a bad team), he has been good but not great.
Honestly Zlatan has probably done better internationally than Messi had
>>65956667
>he reality was that he did shit all after the group stages
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDbyzzohSA8
just look how awful he was
>>65956667
>The reality was that he did shit all after the group stages
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pF4yQqEnio
fucking horrible, carried by di maria to the final
>>65956667
>The reality was that he did shit all after the group stages
>>65954511
Again, watch him waste a beautiful pass from his brilliant team mates. I can't believe how shit he was after the group stages
>>65954511
based post
no wonder you invented football
ITT: Messi haters trying to find a flaw, mostly bad casuals from cricket and apehoop countries
>>65956826
compelling argument m8
let's look at more highlights of Messi wasting chances created by his world class team mates. I wish they'd bench him so he could stop limiting Lavezzi's and Higuain's genius
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH2XKvMOn7s
>>65952602
> Messi won 7 league titles
> Maradona won 3 league titles
> Messi won 5 national cups titles
> Maradona won 9 national cups titles
> Messi won 10 international titles
> Maradona won 1 international title
> Messi won 1 youth WC
> Maradona won 1 youth WC
> Messi won 1 Gold Medal
> Maradona didn't
> Messi lost 2 Copa America final
> Maradona los 1 Copa America final
> Messi lost 1 WC final
> Maradona won 1 WC and lost 1 final
> Messi is as skillful as Maradona, plus Muller goal capacity plus Cruyff playmaking
Everything revelant Maradona did Messi already did it and mostly surpassed it, but winning the World Cup. Take in mind that Messi is almost 30 yo
Also, every other elite football player has stated that Messi is better than Maradona, Maradona himself admitted it.
