So everyone with a brain knows these are easily the best two footballers of the past 50 years or so. But who is truly the goat? At their peaks who was better? Messi or Ronaldo 09 the phenomenon
CR7
Why are South American spics so good at football but Central American ones are so bad?
Messi
It's close but I think Messi. He influences the game on so many levels it's just unreal. It's like having a world class #10 and a world class striker in one player.
Also his peak has lasted for way longer
>>64480497
Post a picture with more talent
>you cant
>>64480541
>yfw even with destroyed knees and a fat guy Ronaldo was still tearing up defences at 25+
Went to several leauges and still performed unlike messi who has never been taken out of his barca comfort zone. He also GOATed for his country and was a big game player. I really think if not for his injuries it Ronaldo would be the undisputed goat. Like the jordan of football.
>>64480581
And what did he win in those several leagues that he tore up?
1 league title and 0 CLs.
Why is lack of NT trophies an argument against Messi but lack of club trophies not an argument against Ronaldo?
>>64480620
He won the dutch league at like 17
>>64480754
Except that he never won the Dutch league and didn't even play there until he was 1 month away from turning 18.
Good try though
Messi >>> Fatnaldo
>>64480541
/thread
None of you kids had the joy of watching ronaldo play. Every time he would do something amazing. He was unbelievably quick, explosive, exciting. Messi is good but compared to how ronaldo played he is too muted. IMO messi just edges it but ronaldo was a batter dribbler, while messi is a goat passer/ playmaker also.
Messi because of consistency over such a long period. If Ronaldo could have stayed injury free he would be right up their with Messi.
These are the only two players in my lifetime that I would go out of my way to make sure I watched them play. Head and shoulders above the rest.
Messi is the greater player, obviously.
But i think if Ronaldo had been able to get to say, 27 years old without suffering any serious injury he'd have ended the Pele/Maradona argument and this 'GOAT' debate between him and Messi would be had by most of the footballing world right now and not just in this thread.
Also i wonder how different Ronaldo's career would have been if he was born 10 years later. He'd certainly have more club titles because he'd have been snapped up by one of the current super clubs, but he'd probably have less NT success because of Brazil's shitty current generation. Maybe today's fitness teams would have been able to manage his knees better also.
>>64480522
Because Central American ones are focused on drug dealing and baseball (at the same time).
>>64480497
>a fat nobody and Messi
>>64480554
andrélotterer.jpg
Messi hasn't peaked yet.
>>64481223
>Brazilian hating on their best ever player
sad
>>64481317
>mfw I don't honestly know who was the best brazilian player of all time
>but one thing I'm certain, it was not Ronaldo nor meme Pelé
>>64480497
you just know
>>64481353
>being this contrarian
Nobody else comes close to them
>>64481481
>coming close to Pelé
KEK
>coming close to Ronaldo
World Cups a shit.
Why does no one care that Messi has played in the same team which has always had other GOAT tier players around him and pretty much always been the best team in the league and in the world?
Yes this is in part because of Messi's influence but Spain won Euros and WC and Messi wasnt there but many other Barca players were so you can't just claim Barca are GOAT because of Messi.
As for R9 I feel he is overrated by a lot here because he was on top during their childhood. Messi is way better.
>>64481190
Imagine if Fatnaldo stayed at Barça or even another club for much longer and had a healthy lifestyle instead of fucking traps
>>64481570
>fucking traps
Oh this again. Did you even read that story?
>>64481570
People are overrating Barca, before their Ronaldinho-Messi and their golden generation, they had only won one CL.
>>64481615
They had a fantastic team in the early 90s and their late 90s team would be a CL favourite with Ronaldo (provided that they'd still sign Rivaldo, although I sort of doubt that)
Its el fenomeno, R9 and I'll tell you non believers why
>Proven across the top leagues in Europe with consistent goalscoring like no other at the time
>played against arguably the finest generation of defenders, not the poor excuse for defenders we have today
>spear headed two world cup victories
>top goalscorer in the world cup until recently and therefore is able to perform on the biggest stage
>>64480581
>>64480984
>B-but muh injuries
Injuries happens and are part of sports. If you have exploding knees like Fatnaldo you are out of any GOAT debate.
Saying "Ronaldo with stronger knees" is as stupid as saying "a 10 feet tall Spud Webb"
>>64481749
Not our fault that Messi injects horse tranquiliser and ket into his anus you tapas munching mong
>>64481793
Ronaldo used drugs too.
>>64481501
>World Cups a shit.
But they're literally the only reason Brazil is relevant in football
Also show me another Brazilian besides Pele who have these kind of stats for the NT
>5 Major Tournaments played
>3x Tournament wins, 1x Runner-Up (Key player in all 4)
>World Cup - 19 Apps 15 Goals
>Copa America - 12 Apps 10 Goals
>2x Best Player Award, 1x Runner-Up
>2x Golden Boots
>1x Silver Boot
>1x Bronze Boot
>>64481793
Fatnaldo is well known for roids lol
>>64481940
Who wouldn't have those stats when you playing against carpenters and plumbers ?
>>64481965
Those are Ronaldo's stats m8
>>64481983
Nevermind then
>>64481247
Thats simply not true
>>64481720
>spear headed two world cup victories
I'm pretty sure he didn't play a game in 94
>>64481947
>>64481923
Just Pele creating drama because he's old and no longer relevant
Pele's ego is bigger than his footballing achievements and that's saying something
>>64482068
This is true
still one WC>0
and he has always been amongst the best at every WC he's played in
>>64481570
>imagine if Fatnaldo wasn't a mercenary
>>64482189
>not mentioning 3 CL > 0 CL
>>64482507
Is there anything wrong with being a merc if you're good? Its just treating football as a job. Better than cunts swearing allegiance to one club then leaving to the first club who throws a shit load of money at them.
>>64482580
In arguably one of the finest club teams of all time
>>64482764
Ronaldo's NT trophies came in one of the finest NTs of all time.
Guess they don't count then
>>64480497
TSUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
>>64482580
>thinking messis CL's matter
The guy is has goats around him like Iniesta, biscuts, Xavi, villa. Ronaldo comparative had good teams but not like barca 2010+.
>>64482835
>thinking ronaldo's WCs matter
The has goats around him like Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Cafu, Roberto Carlos. Messi comparative had good teams but not like Brazil 94-02
>>64482835
>zidane
>figo
>Raul
>that one brit guy
This polish Messi fans is very dedicated. Very strong arguments.
>>64482927
>zidane
>muh meme ball control and dribbles
Zidane was overatted shit. Laurup, Inesta and more are better than him. He just had lucky goals and now very 13 year old watches a youtube video and thinks hes great.
>>64482927
Steve Mcmannaman
>Most underrated player of the past 20 years
>>64482825
I just wanna say for the record, defending nowadays has gone down the fucking shitter, >Ronaldo always performed at every world cup he played
>Performed against arguably the finest generation of defenders
>>64482913
You seriously think those Brazil teams were better than modern Barca? Kek
Ronaldo was probably the best of all time at his position but Messi can take up so many roles on the pitch (and be world-class good at them) that he simply cannot be measured the same way most other footballers can.
I think the only player comparable to him is Di Stéfano, who was also capable of being best in the world at multiple positions.
Messi is the undisputed GOAT, anybody that doubts that should watch him and open their fucking eyes.
>>64481247
physically he has peaked. Don't know if he can improve his game more, though. Would be frightening if he could..
>>64483122
He can play AM, WG and CF. Many other players have been able to do the same. Don't kid yourself into thinking he'd be a great FB or CM.
>>64483056
And how many of those GOAT defenders did he face in the World Cup? Let's look at the teams he faced in World Cup knockouts
Chile, Denmark, Netherlands, France, Belgium, England, Turkey, Germany
How many GOAT defenders can you count there? Stam? Ferdinand? I really can not think of anyone else (discounting French defence since he was ded and didn't do shit the entire game)
>>64483262
>implying messi hasn't sat deep before.
>>64483297
At club level, you don't always have to rim messi mate come on
>>64483262
He is capable of playing as a striker, false 9, AM, winger & deep creator/CM. And he can be best in the world at these positions. Name me those "many other players" that can do the same.
>>64483297
>ronaldo routinely schooled GOAT defenders like maldini
>messi only has to face Ramos/ david luiz
>>64483456
And what did he win at club level against those GOAT defenders?
I actually love Ronaldo as well. I just hate arguments that boil down to "if we discount Messi's trophies won with good teams but count other players' trophies won with good teams then Messi isn't that GOAT after all".
It's almost like good teams with a GOAT player win more trophies than shit teams with a GOAT player
>>64482764
>>64482835
>mfw I don't even need to reply to these shitters since based Poland already ravaged them with their own arguments
>tfw remembering when Ronaldo was the only player not licensed on fifa, so he was just "Number 9" and was the best player on the game
>>64483580
one of the main points that has been made was that Messi has routinely been a part of the greatest club sides in modern football
R9 on the other hand did not, hence why Messi is more succesful at club level
To draw back to your earlier point about World cup GOAT teams, are you really saying that Messi hasn't been surrounded by some of the best players in modern football?
>Higuain
>Tevez
>Di Maria
>Sergio Aguero
>Pablo Aimar
>Riquelme
>Cambiasso
>Mascherano
>Garay
He was so deprived of talent wasn't he?
>>64484007
one of the main points that has been made was that Ronaldo has routinely been a part of the greatest NT sides in modern football
Messi on the other hand did not, hence why Ronaldo is more successful at NT level
To draw back to your earlier point about GOAT club teams, are you really saying that Ronaldo hasn't been surrounded by some of the best players in modern football?
>Zanetti
>Recoba
>Zamorano
>Kanu
>Zidane
>Casillas
>Hierro
>Roberto Carlos
>Raul
>Figo
>Beckham
He was so deprived of talent wasn't he?
>>64484169
Half of those are from Real Madrid, a club he joined, then injuries caught up with him and he declined.
He also won more at Madrid due to their much better squad and overall huge void between the top teams in La liga and the bottom ones, suggesting he would have likely won a lot more
>also Kanu...
>>64484338
>muh injuries
if there wasnt for my injuries I would be GOAT atm, just saying
>>64484338
>Half of those are from Real Madrid, a club he joined, then injuries caught up with him and he declined.
Cool, discount the Real Madrid ones and add Stoichkov, Guardiola, Luis Enrique, Laurent Blanc, Luis Figo. All from Barcelona
>He also won more at Madrid due to their much better squad and overall huge void between the top teams in La liga and the bottom ones, suggesting he would have likely won a lot more
What exactly did he win? 4 full seasons, 1 league titles, 0 CLs, 0 CdRs. I guess 1 > 0 but it doesn't seem like much to brag about
>>64484570
good chat poland, you fight a good fight, I just hate Messi dickriders
>>64484007
Not a single one of these players comes anywhere close Ronaldinho/Rivaldo tier. Also:
>Higuain
Among best players in modern football?
>Di Maria
Played out of position in 2010, in 2014 proved to be a meme player.
>Aimar
never played a single WC game with Messi
>Riquelme
didn't spend time together since Messi was a sub in 2006
>Cambiasso
wasn't even called up in 2010 by Maradona, which speaks volumes about managerial ability that is detrimential to team success
>Mascherano
One-dimensional world class, still poor mans Gilberto Silva :^)
>Garay
Haha give me a break here. He's Lucio/Edmilson tier to you? You should have mentioned Demichelis while you're at it. :^)
I don't want to sound as if Messi played with literally who's, but come on. Ronaldo did have the luxury in playing in THAT Brazil team, just like Messi had in that Barcelona.
>>64484972
Higuain is a top striker, his goal scoring record proves it, despite the fact he's a choking mess
Garay is very underrated, his performances at the back were instrumental in their path to the final
>people L I T E R A L L Y and U N I R O N I C A L L Y underrating ronaldo fenomeno ITT
>the city of people born after 1990
Do you seriously understand just how much the PED treatments at PSV fucked him up? There is a reason why nearly everyone says that R9 sans injuries would have been the undisputed historic GOAT.
Did any of you even watch the nigga play or did you just start following the sport around 2006 by the time he had gone past his peak?
>>64488835
They're just Messi cock jockeys mate, they don't understand
>>64488835
>>64489266
No one here is shitting on Fatnaldo, just applying the same arguments you use against Messi (lack of particular team trophy). Some of you just can't connect it.
>>64484169
>Recoba
>Zamorano
>Kanu
KEK
>>64484570
>Stoichkov
Was over the hill
>Laurent Blanc
flopped
Barcelona and Inter from that period were not elite teams, and are nowhere near comparable with the Barca teams of 08-present.
>>64480522
South american spics have more european admixture + their natives were better than the central american manlets so they produce better athletes.
>>64488835
>>64489266
half the thread is arguing for him you dumb cunts
>>64488835
>would have
Cool, too bad we're discussing what actually happened. Not what would have happened if a million things went differently.
>>64489959
I'm not comparing them to Barcelona, I'm comparing them to Argentine NT. I could greentext literally everyone on that team except for maybe Mascherano.
Why are good players that flopped for their club an excuse for Ronaldo's lack of club trophies, but good players that flopped (Higuain) or got injured (Di Maria) for the NT aren't an excuse for Messi's lack of NT trophies?
>>64490043
Yet there is another half that isn't you cock connoisseur.
>literally retyping Messi haters' retarded arguments with switched names
>wow, guess what. They apply to Ronaldo too
>HURR YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE RETARDED
well no shit sherlocks
>>64483563
>a 17 year old Messi schooled Cannavaro .webm
>>64484972
Garay was the best CB at the 2014 WC.
Also
>the best two footballers of the past 50 years or so
u wot m8
>>64491287
no, he wasn't.
>>64491430
Boateng was good too.
>>64491405
He was great but not consistant enough to match messi or ronaldo 09.
>>64491656
He played on a b-tier team for most of his career. In terms of the actual game, Maradona over Ronaldo:
>better dribbler
>better off the ball
>better hitter of the ball (passing/shooting/crossing/FKs etc)
>leadership
>game vision (Ronaldo had literally 0 until he died and had to adapt)
>Could be GOAT at midfield as well as striker positions
Ronaldo over Maradona:
>better finishing
>more explosive
that's it
The only one who is comparable to peak Messi is maybe peak Ronaldinho.
>>64491967
>better dribbler
nope
>>64492017
You should watch some of those Barca games to see how limited Ronaldinho's game actually was (always talking relative to GOAT contenders ofc). He depended a lot of being afforded space on the left and having the cross-ball to Giuly to work.
On the other hand, give peak Messi 1cm of space even in the middle and you're done for (like Real at 2011).
>>64491967
Bull shit is maradona a better hitter. Ronaldo had it all. clinical, good fks, good pens. Until his knees blew ronaldo didnt need great vision and he still got a good number of assists.Leadership maybe but we are talking about ability, messi isnt much of a leader either. Plus maradona played against joke opposition. you might as well bring pele into it.
>>64492160
>Maradona played against joke opposition
Oh boy
>>64481940
>Brazil
>relevant
7-1, thank you and good bye.
>World Cups a Mickey Mouse League
>>64481923
His medical, legal growth hormone defeicienfcy treatment (known widely and in detail), from his child to his teen years, is in no way "using drugs".
Well, unless you're a CR7 fanboy and desperately grasping at straws...
It was no more, no less than a medical treatment that helped him turn from an underdeveloped kid to a normal one (an even then, he bearly made it to a normal height).
>>64481515
All great players play on great teams with other great players
I like howPoland schooled all these Messi haters, Messi aat his peak has no rival and the only reason Barcelona has been the greatest team the past 7 years is because of him, hell he even won a leagu on his own when the team was shit, he was the top scorer in Europe that year and the top assister as well.
>Ronaldo
>goes to Internazionale
>wins UEFA Cup
KEK
yeah Messi is probably better OP
but Ronaldo is still my favorite player, the one who could go magic in front of our eyes
watching messi is just so boring compared to watching Ronaldo
to me football is way more then just pure skill
>>64480581
Hell if it wasn't for his seizure and his sidekick being injured before the 98 World Cup he would still be the undisputed goat. Poor lad, even without Romario he was still able to take Brazil to the final.
>>64480522
>tf
>tt
>>64483071
Hell yes
>>64483071
It's all relative to the competition. Barca plays against other super club teams in the CL. Brazil plays against national teams.
Barca being better than Brazil is completely irrelevant.
>>64494312
You're right, it's all because of Messi. Not because of the GOAT spanish midfield that would strangle teams into submission and have 70%+ possession every game. And it's not like Barca without Messi dominated 3 INT tournaments in a row, and Messi without Barca choked in multiple finals where he couldn't do shit when it was a more level playing field.
KEK
