I know he is the most talented footballer ever, but is he worthy of being called the GOAT if he never wins the World Cup with Argentina?
In all honesty he has been a massive failure for the national team, no WC wins, no Copa Americas.. You take away that and what's left is him dominating club football in the best club side of all time with perfect role players like Iniesta, Xavi, Ronaldinho and Suarez.
Ronaldo obviously isn't better but he at least proved himself in a different league and plays for a much weaker national team.
So is he really more GOAT than Maradona or Pele, who are probably hurt by the fact that they played in a less hyped era of football?
Lack of team success shouldn't necessarily take away from an individual's accomplishments, especially since the World Cup happens so rarely.
That said, Pele and Maradona still better. But Messi is the best player of his generation.
>>64064667
I guess, but he has played in 3 WCs and will make at least 4, probably 5, and it's such a vital thing to have on your resume considering that the previous GOAT candidates all have WC wins.
But that makes you think should the GOAT question be purely about ability rather than achievements, Messi's 73 goal seasons for instance will never be topped.
>>64064667
>That said, Pele and Maradona still better
Maradona could be debated though Messi has done way more, Pele is meme garbage get the fuck out
>>64064646
>but is he worthy of being called the GOAT if he never wins the World Cup with Argentina?
Is Maradona worthy of being called the GOAT if he never won European Cup/CL (most imporant club trophy, yet he never reached Quarter Finals in it)?
>In all honesty he has been a massive failure for the national team, no WC wins, no Copa Americas..
A massive failure? He was by far the best and most consistent Argentinian performer since 2010. The fact that he lost in two finals doesn't mean he was individually "a massive failure".
>You take away that and what's left is him dominating club football in the best club side of all time with perfect role players like Iniesta, Xavi, Ronaldinho and Suarez.
Pele's Brazil was by miles the best NT side of his time. Does it discredit his candidacy in the GOAT debate?
>So is he really more GOAT than Maradona or Pele, who are probably hurt by the fact that they played in a less hyped era of football?
In terms of pure footballing ability he is better than Maradona, Maradona tops him only in character department since Messi's introvert persona isn't really leader material. Also, there was IMMENSE hype over Maradona in his time, he was the subject of jerking off that time as much as Messi is today so don't know why you bring it up.
>>64064843
>Is Maradona worthy of being called the GOAT if he never won European Cup
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
yes he is
Pele never played in Europe
Maradona never won Champions League
Neither Pele nor Maradona won Copa America
Messi lost 2 finals
everyone has a blemish on their record, and yes Messi is GOAT.
>>64064691
>3 WCs
1 as a youngster with a manager that thought he was too young to use in big match
1 with a shitty manager
He reached a final with the one good manager, hmmmmmmm....makes you think.
>>64065674
Pelé played in Europe.
1958 Sweden World Cup.
Intercontinental Cups of 1962 and 1963.
imagine this
Messi's first world cup: he was too young to play any real match and he sat watching as Argentina got eliminated
2010:
Messi has Maradona for a manager
Maradona as Manager
>1994, Mandiyu de Corrientes, 8.33% win rate and fired
>1995 Racing Club de Argentina, 18% win rate and fired
>2010 Argentina national team
literally how did he get that job? by name alone.
2014
Messi loses world cup final with a real manager
so it's unfortunate he has bad luck but he still has 1 good world cup and another world cup where he can be the old wise man in midfield.
>>64064646
>Ronaldo obviously isn't better but he at least proved himself in a different league and plays for a much weaker national team.
Top kek @ this.
>Leads Argentina to Copa America final 2011
>Tevez chokes a penalty
>Leads Argentina to World cup final 2014
>Higuain spaghetti
>Leads Argentina to Copa America final 2015
>Higuain again spaghettis
3 consecutive finals in a row but people say he underperforms for his country.Do you people actually watch football?
>>64065787
The argument against this is if he was the GOAT he would've carried those 3 games regardless of other players spaghetti
>>64065787
>it's always somebody elses fault
Are you forgetting Messi missed a one on one in the WC final and skied a last minute FK? Literally the only two things he did all game and he fucked them up. He didn't lead shit after the group stage. Even the MOTD team, who were all Messi dickriders, admitted he was poor in the final and didn't deserve the best player award.
To be the GOAT you need:
>a WC
>a Euro/Copa
>success in more than one team/league
>a CL
>a Ballon d'Or
So using this criteria, one man comes to mind..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrOLGifnMJk
>>64065848
But what if a player has multiple balon dors (five), multiple CLs (four) and a single club's best player ever?
Kinda evens it out desu
World Cup has been irrelevant for years, the best active player that has won a WC is Iniesta, most elite players haven't won it
>>64065877
Well Barca have been a top 3 team since the very start of his career. This gives him a big advantage over other GOATs when it comes to stats and trophies, because most of them had to work their way up from shitty teams and leagues.
>>64065787
>forgetting this thing
>>64065848
Judging by this logic Cannavaro was a Euro/CL away from bring the GOAT
>>64065901
>messhit and penaldo apologists
>>64065848
>>success in more than one team/league
Nah, that doesn't make any sense
Messi just happened to be world class since he's 16 years old, he was lucky he started playing for one of the best teams in the world and with him it turned the best team ever (probably in history, we will always talk about late 00's and 10's Barcelona). Why would Messi now leave Barcelona, to prove some people he can do it outside of that club? He has rekt clubs from all leagues
>>64065942
What about Suárez, Neymar, James, Lewandowski, Agüero, Vardy, Aubamayang, Kane and other world class players?
>>64065934
>Judging by this logic Cannavaro was a Euro/CL away from bring the GOAT
So he's missing 2 out of 5, that's nearly half of the criteria.
>>64065918
Argentina's greatest generation getting beat by literally who
>>64065986
>Argentina's greatest generation
>Abbondanzieri
>Heinze
>Rilelme
>Young as fuck Messi
>Young as fuck Mascherano
>Aimar
>Lucho González
lmao, our current squad is far better
>>64064646
>>run and dribble until tackled
>>most talented footballer ever
oh finland
>>64064646
>In all honesty he has been a massive failure for the national team
No, he will retire as out NT highest scorer and we had elite strikers before
He carried our NT to 2 consecutive finals and people like Higuaín or Palacio managed to fuck his shit up
>>64066024
>this topic
>this flag
opinion discarded
>>64064646
desu he cant be called the GOAT if he never plays in the prem
Out the way kids, the real savior of all the white people in Argentina is here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojge082rsmY
>>64066063
>He carried our NT
he didn't carry shit
>>64066109
based Dyballer
>>64066139
Have you seen our NT without him?
Without Messi we wouldn't even made it out the groups stage in the last WC, imagine that shame, losing a group with Iran, Bosnia and Nigeria
>>64065918
was played out of position
>>64065998
>>lmao, our current squad is far better
that flag though
>>64065998
>young Messi
already top3 player in the world
>young Mascherano
already an elite DM
>rilelme
Greatest Argentinian player outside of Messi, also greatest Argentinian midfielder in like, ever
>Aimar
>implying Aimar is bad
I guess he wasn't nearly at his primer by then
>our current squad is far better
You're delusional
>>64066326
>>young Mascherano
>already an elite DM
He was playing at West fucking Ham, how can you say he was elite
>Greatest Argentinian player outside of Messi
Oh, you are just baiting
>>argentina
>>hasn't won anything for decades
>>still think they are relevant
how cute
>>64065825
the one on one was hardly a forgone conclusion. neur would have to have made a huge error for him to let up a goal from that angle and spot
>>64066345
He was already playing at Liverpool and even reached the CL final (where he was a starter). Besides, the level of a player has nothing to do with where he demonstrated it, that's how signings work.
>baiting
Riquelme literally carried the whole team in that Copa and he was right out of having carried Boca throughout the Libertadores. He was the one Messi needed to play his best, too bad about 2010.
>>64066424
You said Riqueleme was the best argentine midfielder ever, ergo you are suggesting he was better than Maradona
You are the deluded one
>>64066443
>Maradona
I guess you can... kinda consider Maradona a midfielder in a 70s way, but I consider him a forward or a mediapunta at most.
I can think of like, 3 midfielders who can say they're better than Riquelme. Bochini, Redondo and I guess prime Verón but Verón was never that much of a differential.
>>64066463
Riquelme is just a glorified Pisculichi
>>64064646
>but is he worthy of being called the GOAT if he never wins the World Cup with Argentina?
yes.
he's already been the GOAT before he won his 2nd treble
he already was GOAT when he lost that final against Germany
and he will probably add another bunch of trophies before he retires
>>64066063
Using that logic Rooney has been a massive success in his England career.. but I think a lot of Brits would disagree
>>64066699
But he plays for fucking England, who cares about their historic record
>>64066728
>one of 8 national teams to have won the WC
>constant failure on the international level
>no world cup
>no continental cup
>"GOAT"
I don't think so 2bh. He's not even playing for a weak team like England or Venezuela, there are no excuses.
>>64066764
Reaching a final is a failure? Beign 2nd from +200 is a failure?
Life is too depressing if you see it with your optic
>robbed Messi his WC
>split up with his GF right after
>probably banging multiple sissy bois at this very moment
is there a more based human being on this planet?
>>64066818
Should be gotze who robbed messi familia
>strikers
>GOAT
When will this meme end? How can you be the GOAT if you can never be the most important player on your team?
>>64066903
who?
>>64066920
Strikers are the most important players in the team
To win a football match you need to score goals, why do you think strikers get payed more than other players?
>>64066818
>>64066920
This is the same guy and I'm 80% sure it's Neuer himself
>>64066818
Don't see Gotze on that pic desu
>>64066950
>To win a football match you need to score goals, why do you think strikers get payed more than other players?
Because most people are unwashed plebians, raising the market prices on strikers, causing a price loop. Defense wins championships and a shitty team with a legendary goalkeeper will always win more than a legendary team with a shitty goalkeeper.
>>64067063
>Defense wins championships and a shitty team with a legendary goalkeeper will always win more than a legendary team with a shitty goalkeeper.
Real Madrid, Barcelona and Spain dominated football for some years and they had bad goalkeepers
>>64067063
>Defense wins championships and a shitty team with a legendary goalkeeper will always win more than a legendary team with a shitty goalkeeper.
But Marcos won a World Cup with Kahn over the other side.
>>64067092
I can't think of a single bad starting keeper Real, Barcelona and Spain had in the last decades.
>>64065697
Played for a club in Europe.
>>64067231
Barcelona just won the treble this year with Ter fucking Stegen as the starting keeper in 2 of 3 competitions
>>64067151
Well, Marcos had a decent tournament. You also have to remember that Germany squad of 2002 had absolutely no business being in a knockout stage, let alone a World Cup final.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdcK-SDDqHw
Just look at this. Kahn literally plays them alone and sets up the final goal. Oliver Neuville was merely the one actually putting it in the net, any drunken hobo from the streets could have done that.
>>64064691
but still it's a tiny sample size, how many world cup games has he played? 20? why would that overshadow the 500 club games he has played where he is the undisputed GOAT?
>>64067231
Casillas after 2012
>>64067273
Europe was comparatively shit. Hence why Brazil winning 3 world cups in 12 years with not a single player from European clubs.
>>64064646
the world cup criteria is a meme, in 30 years time no one is going to be talking about Alonso, Gotze or Kroos. But people will still remember Messi.
How many players can you name from the 1982 world cup winners squad? what about 86? only one or two players from those squads are still being talked about
>>64065848
>Thinking the biggest lining meme is the greatest of all time
LEL
Also hate this American mentality that you have to win a ring or some shit to be GOAT. Puskas and Di Stefano were pretty GOAT but never won a world cup. Although Puskas was ref balled and roided out of a world cup by le stinky krauts
>People think being a GOAT defender is harder than being a GOAT attacker
Nice meme. Literally every player agrees the hardest thing in football is to score goals
>>64067721
and yet there is a massive deficiency of defenders right now while there are GOAT attacking players in almost every club
>>64067721
Scoring goals AS A TEAM is hard. Scoring goals as a striker in a team that generates the chances is easy in comparison.
Look at Chicharito.
>>64067638
>what about 86?
You remember them if they were your team
>>64067760
This is true. Every club that matters and even some underdogs have amazing attackers/strikers now.
Good goalkeepers and wingers are rarer to find now.
>>64064646
>Donaldo
>plays for a weaker national team
They had their golden generation when Ronaldo was in his early 20s and they did fuck all other then choke to Grease in the euros and get to semis in the 2006 world cup
>>64066373
messi put himself in that position though
It isn't his fault Higauin is a choker. He literally has 1 goal per 2 games with Argentina and brought them to the final of the last World Cup and Copa, he isn't 'bad' for Argentina by any means desu.
>>64064646
he is the best football player the world of professional football ever seen, but he is not the most successful one, at least at an international level
>>64065683
> its always the managers fault
Where did this meme come from?
>2006
keked by Germany
>2010
keked by Germany
>2014
keked by Germany
BASED NAZIS
>>64070503
Your history is funnier faggot
>>64067638
Pretty sure germans will still talk about Gotze bro.
World cup is the most relevant trophy, no matter what club babbies say
>>64067721
football is becoming softer and softer, you can't just play brutes fouling everybody in your box now
good defenders are rare now
>>64070828
only brits say that shit about international football because they're that bitter
guess what, unless it was the team you support nobody else remember which team has won the CL in 1979 either
>>64064646
>In all honesty he has been a massive failure for the national team
No he hasn't. Argentina lost its midfield play post this 2007 >>64065918 loss. Do not underestimate how devastating that Copa America was. We had an absolutely fantastic team that fell apart after losing the final, the most iconic case being Riquelme quitting the NT because "his mother felt sad".
Argentina post 2007 had a non coach, non project, non team(Maradona and the 4-0 loss at the WC); a completely desperate and retarded attempt at copying Barsa's style(Batista, literally losing the easiest Copa America in the last decade); and a good defensive coach that relied on counter attacks(Sabella). That is to say, we were in literal shock for 4-5 years after that final, a period in which the NT desintegrated. The only thing that kept it together was Messi.
That is not to say the he has performed at his goat-level in the NT, it's just that he had to endure a lot of wasted years. His most impressive performances in relation to his barsa level were back then when we had Riquelme handling our team. God knows what would have happened if we didn't self destruct in that fucking 2007 final.
>massive failure
>made both finals that were stupidly close
>>64070503
let me fix that for you
>2006
almost took out the local team, played better, lost on penalties
>2010
BTFOed by Germany
>2014
keked by Germany
>>64073890
Isn't Argentina actually a country known for producing good managers historically? What happened to you guys
>>64075114
Yes. Maradonna was put in charge because we were desperate and though that a coaching team with 'the mistique of 1986' plus Messi would be good enough to win a WC. Batista was put in charge because "if we mimic barcelona(without xavi or iniesta or busquets) Messi will score 4 goals every match". Finally, after two embarassing tournament losses(and a 6-1 defeat against Bolivia too) the AFA got an actual good coach.
What you have to understand is that prior to the 2007/08-2011 debacle we had two coaches that preached for long term projects and good football(and one spectacular player manager coach), both made the team play really well and qualify with ease, but both failed in the big tournaments.
Bielsa's team was ridiculously knocked out in the group stages in 2002(after breaking point records in the qualifiers) and lost an incredible Copa America final in 2004(last minute goal evened the match, ended up losing on penalties). He didn't get sacked though, he resigned after the Olympic Games claiming he was drained(righfully so, the press over here destroyed him).
Pekerman had great qualifiers, had a great team, and barely lost against Germany in the quarterfinals(the image we all remember is him subbing Riquelme off, putting fucking Cruz into the game and leaving Messi on the bench, to then lose on penalties in a game where we played better). Still, he couldn't handle it: he resigned after the WC, probably because of press bashing too.
Basile grabbed Pekerman.Bielsa's team, put Veron in it and literally played such great football that the entire country stopped to watch it play. There were TV hosts that arrived late to the station, and started their show 30 minutes late because they wanted to watch the NT. We stomped through that tournament. And, in the final, we lost. 3-0. Against Brazil.
So you get why we were desperate. We believed Maradona could add some magic to the team so we would win those matches. It failed, spectacularly so.
>>64073890
Is it true? Did a victory of Brazil B team over Argentina destroy their morale for 2 whole world cup cycles to come?
this shit's funny
>>64076093
That is my opinion of it. It was the breaking point for a failure cycle.
Oh, I got nostalgic. For anyone that understands spanish, this is a great report on the 2007 team before the final.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPbfVED1fLQ
>>64076178
http://www.marca.com/2015/07/05/futbol/copa-america/1436056227.html
>>64064646
>Maradona and Pele
GOAT
Garrincha is the best player who ever walked on earth, Messi is second tho
>>64076787
Garrincha was just a XX-century Arjen Robben. Did the same shit every time and it just worked.
>>64064667
Doesn't look asian to me
>>64076706
Mascherano's right. Thank god club football exists, because following the NT is torture.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kCo5qrdXps
>>64064667
fack a uuuu white boi, yulia es best figure skater
>still doubting the GOAT even tho he's the GOAT with 28 years
>Pele
Kill yourself desu :D:DDDDD:DDDD
>>64064646
he should have won the last world cup really but the argentinian team as a collective whole just bottled it inb the final, trust me us english are experts on footballers bottling it so I know what I'm talking about
>>64081365
he was best for his era bu all around he cannot even clean fatronaldo's boots
>>64081365
that's garrincha and the play was stopped by the ref in that gif.
>>64081365
I know Pelel is one of the most overrated players ever, but that isn't even Pele and that's not a WC final.
>>64081365
Estonia does it again.
Stick to scrubbing toilets
>>64065903
>Barca have been a top 3 team since the very start of his career.
Massively incorrect.
>>64065787
>Leads Argentina to Copa America final 2011
>Tevez chokes a penalty
Lel wut? that was a Quarter final. And he does underperform with the NT, anyone would if your teammates are a bunch of mercs like Dimemeria or Higuain and you also have no midfield to fall back to.
Messi is goat even if he doesn't win any title with the NT anyways.
>>64067021
>imblying a GOAT would miss this oportunity
>>64067564
/sp/ forgets that a lot
>>64070828
The media tries to force the Götze wm hero here but everyone with a but of understanding of the Sport knows that he was one of our weakest players in the tournament and that based Neuer carried us to our finals.
He ist the one everyone will remember, just like Kahn. We Germans value or foalies very highly.
>>64082487
>tfw we never had anything other than meme keepers
>>64082519
Coupet pls
Barthez wasn't a meme, he was just a clown at times.
>>64064646
Yes he will still be GOAT even if he doesn't win a WC. The WC is a tournament where teams can be fickle because of the huge pressure, flukes etc. Messi shouldn't be rated by this.
WC happens every 4 years, I rate a player on his consistency throughout the season, and on that basis Messi is GOAT.
>>64081382
>dat pic
Spot on.
WC is cool and shit, but happens every 4 years and teams have only one month to prepare. Messi is the GOAT and you nostalgia fags can do nothing about it. Messi is in TOP 3 for the last 9 YEARS. How can a man be so consistent? And forget it, faggots, Messi has at least 3 or 4 years at maximum level.
how could a career's worth be defined by a couple of short tournaments when they player cannot be sure of his age, team mates, his coach and his current fitness?
pele and maradona and such were only seen at world cups by europeans, most of their club careers were spent at leagues way worse then la liga
messi was good for argentina and goat at club level, he's clearly had a more impressive career
>>64083713
>most of their club careers were spent at leagues way worse then la liga
kek
>>64083869
tell me again how great santos and new york cosmos were
ok napoli was decent back then i suppose
>no world cups, ever
>>64083973
>>64083991
>Benedikt Höwedes played every single minute of Germany's victorious WC campaign
>as a fullback
>EVERY SINGLE MINUTE
>WORLD CHAMPION
>MESSI WILL NEVER, _EVER_ BE WORLD CHAMPION
>muh world cups
>muh international football
literally a casual's tournament for women and kids to enjoy during the summer holidays
how the fuck are players like c. ronaldo, george best, ryan giggs, didier drogba, gareth bale, luis suarez etc. etc. EVER going to win the world cup? it's just not possible when you play for a nation with less than 5 million to pick from or play in a country that doesn't give a shit about football
they're not, so it's completely redundant saying "Oh X never won the world cup, so they can't be considered a great/GOAT"
it's fucking stupid, the world cup is a bit of fun which brings the world together to celebrate football every 4 years, nothing more and it never will be anything more
a player's peak generally only lasts about 4-5 years at the VERY MAXIMUM therefore they have one good chance to perform well and win the world cup. now what if they get injured and miss the whole thing? what if they get a cold before the quarter final and it lasts throughout the rest of the tournament? what if they forget their boots before the final and have to wear someone else's causing them to play far worse than usual? what if they get wrongly red carded in the first minute of a game and the subsequent ban puts them out of the whole competition?
WAY too many factors to consider it a valued measure of a player's ability. You'd have to be some sort of fucking moron to think it's valid in any way at all.
A player is measured on his ability THROUGHOUT the year. Over a period of 50+ games and 12 months. Sure you can add international games into the mix, but really it's worth maybe 3% of the overall total.
>>64084037
>>64083991
>>64083973
Your posts prove the WC is an irrelevant competition
>>64083886
Brazilian and Argentine leagues were better than every single European one until the 80s m8
>>64084223
then why did you cry that night, pablo?
>>64084223
>>64084244
I didn't even watch the final mate, I had better things to do that watch an amateur match featuring players that didn't play more than a couple hours together in the entire year
>>64084275
it certainly looked like that when your "goat" missed the wide open goal
>>64083713
Yeah, it's beyond me how anyone can say that Maradona or Pele (Or Ronaldo, Zidane, Cruyff or anyone for that matter) have had better careers than Messi.
It's literally not possible.
>Messi
7 league titles
3 domestic cups
4 champions leagues
4 ballon d'ors
300 goals in nearly as many games in one of the world's toughest leagues (top 2 at worst)
>>64084275
>not watching your country play the WC final
you will go to hell, for lying
>>64084330
to be honest family, i didn't watch england's game against uruguay
was at a bbq
>>64084275
>I didn't even watch the final mate
u fucker
mexico will NEVER get to semis, at least you guys compete for the trophy
i know its a football for plebs, but still, exciting as fuck.
>>64084347
England hasn't reached a final in literally half a century, of course you've never seen it
>>64084320
>open goal
lmao
>>64084347
Sure, but it wasn't a final. Who the fuck doesn't watch their country in a final?
>>64084232
"kek"
>>64084378
We are too used to reaching finals, you will never understand it, Hommamud
>>64084384
>this flag
>this topic
>>64084324
Agreed. Most of the people who actually say things like that are World Cup babbies.
>>64084232
>this is what latin american citizens GENUINELY believe
Argentina and Brazil have NEVER had a domestic league stronger than the Scottish top flight. Never. Not even for a year or two.
>>64084392
>argentina
>white
>>64084448
>>64084462
>these flag
>these topics
Sorry, I'll only reply to people from football nations
>>64084462
It depends on the arbitrary definition of GOAT, imagine a player who seems to surpass all current players by a mile, breaking all records and getting double the goals messi gets for club and country but he's from San Marino and for every crazy wonder goal he scores for them they concede 2 because they happen to be terrible.
Would he not be GOAT if say Messi had won the World Cup, what about if Messi had just won Copa America, would Messi be considered better?
I think the having to win the WC stuff is BS, it's purely luck, if Messi decided to go for Spanish citizenship he could most probably have played at a substantially lower level in 2010 for Spain than he actually did in the last WC and probably would have won it in.
Messi's GOAT status in these kinds of arguments can and be decided on whether one time Higuain gooses it or not. To say he's not GOAT because of that and then in an alternate universe Higuain scores and they win the WC and Copa and he could've played the exact same in both, shows to me how this argument is BS.
He's the GOAT
>>64084699
I don't think you can be the GOAT if you've never proven yourself outside of your comfort zone. For all of his career Barca have been totally dominant, giving him the luxury of walking around most of the game and then striking when the opponent has been weared down. The WC is the ultimate test, and he couldn't do shit when the going got tough.
>>64084699
All GOATs are from football nations, literally ever
Nations like San Marino, Pakistan, England, Finland or Monaco will never produce a world class player
When are you dense motherfuckers gonna realize GOAT doesn't mean the perfect fucking god. Its just being better than anyone who has ever existed. And Messi is consitently far better than Pelel and Maradroga. Neither have a CL and the insane feats Messi has performed throughout his career far outweigh a world cup against farmers and world cup won by cheating.
>>64084887
you're making it hard not to take this bait
>>64084759
>if you've never proven yourself outside of your comfort zone
he has played as a false 9, as a 10, as a rw in different systems and he has always delivered
>>64084759
>For all of his career Barca have been totally dominant,
no
>>64084759
>giving him the luxury of walking around most of the game and then striking when the opponent has been weared down
no
>>64084759
>The WC is the ultimate test, and he couldn't do shit when the going got tough.
i dont think it is. i agree that he didnt goat it in the match vs Germany. but as other posters said, nt matches are like 10% of a player's career
>>64084887
Don't agree, get players like George Weah from Liberia who was fucking great in his time.
>>64084759
Don't agree and cba getting into a debate, it never changes anyone's mind anyway but go back and look at Messi's performance in the last WC, he made a plethora of chances, turned a couple games on his own and was for the most part great. If anyone not called Messi had performed like that and been awarded the Best Player of the Tournament award or whatever it's called, there'd be none of this 'he didn't deserve it' grumbling.
The sooner plebs realize team trophies are collective team achievements the better. One player can't solo win you a trophy in this sport, there are too many factors internal and external involved. Player's individual brilliance can win you a game or save you a game, but to pull it off to the end ultimately demands collective success (often with a bit of luck here and there or refball :)).
>>64084973
>weah
>goat potential
all the best players are from brazil, argentina, germany, france and italy (and spain in the last decade)
What about e.g. Matt Le Tissier? He didn't achieve anything at club level so does that mean he's not as good as Darren Fletcher?
>>64064646
>but is he worthy of being called the GOAT if he never wins the World Cup with Argentina?
It's hard to win things with Chokeguain holding back the entire nation
no one cares about the world cup unless they come from undeveloped shitholes
the world cup here was a reason to gather around and drink a few beers. Yes the following day we talked about it but after the second day no one even cared anymore.
>>64085003
The point is that a great player can come from plenty of countries it just happens unsurprisingly that the countries with biggest football culture produce more of them. Especially with Barca now poaching the most promising young ones from around the world. How are you not getting this?
>>64064646
football doesnt have an absolute GOAT unlike other underdeveloped sports, which is why is so based
the only thing overrated is the GOAT term used by everybody and what it means for everybody
Messi deserves all the things he have achieved so far
