any anons on /soc/ a
feminist,mra,mgtow,sjw,or etc.?
>>23906524
mra? mgtow? what?
I'm a feminist, though. The real kind, though... equality and all that.
>>23906556
i have a question for you, suppose you had a boyfriend who was working and you weren't would you still want to split house chores or would you offer to help do most of them? By the way just know that if your positions were switched your boyfriend would happily do all the house work for you.
>>23906556
then why do you bother to cling to a name that is rightly associated with crazy people?
Why is the name so important? Do you need "fem" in the word for you to care?
If not, why don't you just say you are a supporter of woman's rights, like the women who are actually doing something to help women are.
its like clinging to nazi and try to make everyone see that you are the good nazi who "love people of all religions, the real nazi, not like those fake hitler supporters!"
that is literally how you sound.
>>23906574
relax internet warrior
>>23906563
I was actually in this situation until recently. I was unemployed after being laid off for nearly 2 months. During that time, my fiance worked full time. As a result, I did most of the household chores, with him helping whenever he felt like it. I was happy to do those things for us because I couldn't help pay the bills.
>>23906574
I don't think the word feminist is all that important. However, I don't think it's associated with crazy people... when I learned about the movement, it was always in the context of equality and compassion. I've never actually encountered any crazy feminists, so the word doesn't have the connotation for me. I can see what you're saying, of course. It's just never caused me any trouble to use the word itself to identify my beliefs.
>>23906582
thanks, my girlfriend thinks doing all/most of the housework is completely unacceptable even though she is unemployed. The catch though is she has a condition, so of course I don't mind doing all the work; but I told her if I go back to working 8 hours day and she has no job and gets better from her physical condition I would expect her to do more and she started crying and telling me i expected her to be a house wife. I don't know what the problem is honestly, she can at most spend an hour a day cooking and cleaning and I'll be happy, that's 7 whole hours to herself at home. Meh
>>23906582
the fact you had to specify when you said feminist prove that it also impact you and that you are aware of the problems, even if you have not personally encountered them.
the fact the movement is heavily fragmented and not unified about anything also do not help.
If I ask you what the major causes feminsits are fighting for I bet you would tell me something else than the next feminist I asked, that is also a problem.
at least MRA (I consider them equally pointless btw) tend to have a unified focus and a clear set of cases they want to bring to light, like the suicide rates among men, lower focus on men's health compared to women and their disadvantaged position in regards to parenting
At least they are consistent. You? I know nothing about you and your feminism unless you tell me
I'm a mild feminist. As a dude it's hard to 100% identify with it, but I support it on the whole.
>>23906597
tell her you expect her to pull her weight equal to the weight she would be able to pull at a job, and that if she gets that job you will be happy to take more of the house work.
if she can't understand that she seems rather egoistic IMO
>>23906597
I can understand why she might be upset... she doesn't want to be taken advantage of. And, of course, that's what you want to avoid as well. If she cried about it, it must be a genuine fear for her, so I think you two should talk it over. From my perspective, you're in the right, though.
>>23906611
I specified because 4chan is well-known for hating on women. I frequent /b/, so I expected that sort of reaction.
Oh, MRA is men's rights? See, I consider feminism to be all-inclusive in that sense. I can see why the name confuses people. I think it would be better to classify myself as a human-rights advocate.
>>23906574
But the Nazi party was an objectively bad party with an objectively bad ideal.
The ideal behind the original feminists, the Suffragettes was absolutely fine and sound. Maybe she just harkens back to the kind of ideals the Suffragettes had (hopefully without the violence) and tries to disassociate it from 2nd and 3rd wave Feminism, which is getting more and more ridiculous.
I refuse to acknowledge any form of Feminism that Sir Paul McCartney doesn't write a song about.
>>23906524
Egalitarian here.
>>23906630
you might consider it as such, but the majority do not agree with you
what is the point of a label when it don't label you like you wanted?
MRA is a reaction to mainsteam feminism and originally was made as a joke to make them realize how dumb they looked then it grew
feminism stops being all inclusive already in the name itself btw, if anyone is confused its you
>>23906631
I believe that many people do, I just don't think they do themselves any favors when they insist on naming themselves the same as people who are seen as crazy people.
As mentioned earlier, women who do the real fight for women's rights consider feminism today "trivial bullshit"
intersectional feminist here. i hate mras they suck desu
>>23906636
People who describe themselves as Egalitarians are idiots, absolutely fucking idiot idealists. At least Feminists have a shot at achieving their goals.
People who describe themselves as Egalitarians who work contrary to feminists are the worst a well, as if furthering Feminism doesn't further Egalitarianism.
instead of reclaiming they should rebrand and move on, its what companies do and it works for them
>>23906630
>>23906626
yeah i'm sure we will talk more tonight, thanks guys. sometimes i like other people's opinions to keep myself in check if I have to.
>>23906654
Except you realise in that exact article you just posted that woman is saying exactly what you're arguing against, right?
That American feminists need to take the word Feminist back from the women who are using it now and turn it into a positive thing again.
By telling her to give up the word Feminist and use "Women's Rights Activist" you're going against the very fucking article you used to support your point.
>>23906661
what even are the goals of modern feminism?
tell me what needs to happen in society for feminism to become redundant?
>>23906661
seems counter productive to focus on only one half of the population when it takes the same amount of work.
if someone pursue egalitarian views they most likely do more for feminism than most feminists ever will
>>23906644
I think the name feminism just honours the history of the movement; the suffragettes. I think they'd be really annoyed by things like the MRA, given how hard they had to fight just to be recognized as socially human. Unfortunately, women are systematically oppressed and abused in a large percentage of the world. I agree that men have social issues to deal with as well, but it's not really on the same scale... I don't mean to disparage the suffering of men, just to point out the historical, widespread disadvantage that women have experienced. Some people believe that relinquishing the name feminism is like denying the crimes against women. I'm not sure I feel that way, but I really don't think you or anyone else has to worry about a label.
>>23906563
Im a feminist and to answer your question I would not make my boyfriend to chores if he was working and I wasn't. If he was making money to take care of the both of us the least I could do would be the chores.
>>23906673
I'm shocked, shocked, that a /pol/ dude is memeing and not making a real argument.
>>23906673
I do realize that, its a discussion, the reason I argued against it was to show you that I did not agree with the article in its entirety, I followed it up here
>>23906663
maybe you should comprehend before you reply? ;)
>>23906679
the suffragettes would not as much mind the MRA people as they would mind the complete destruction of what they created.
they would focus less on others and more on themselves, unlike modern feminism who do it the other way around, who care what mess your own "organization" is as long as you are able to point a finger at someone else
>>23906676
But your realise "Egalitarianism" doesn't mean "Equality between the sexes", it means equality in every single aspect of life. Our current meritocratic society goes inherently against the ideals of Egalitarianism.
And even if something is successful doesn't man it is over, even if Feminists achieved all their goals today they would still be Feminists, because it's an ideal, not a label.
>>23906696
You seem pretty focused on feminists, yourself... do you consider yourself a women's rights activist?
>>23906700
I looked it up before I replied, it means "equal rights and opportunities"
and what you are saying does not make sense, it is also a movement, so in regard to its very real existence as a movement it must have goals that if met would make it redundant in the sense that there is nothing more to fight, no?
if not you are like Sisyphus, going on forever
>>23906704
I support women rights, as do most people if you bothered to talk to them from a sane and normal perspective and don't mix in the poison that feminism is
modern feminism is actually anti women in many regards.
like treating women like sex objects, the first people who told me that this woman should no longer be seen as a complete person but reduced to sex alone, was feminists.
>>23906740
If you want to break it down to 4 words, yeah, sure, but it's an entire Political and Social philosophy and not as simple as that. Things like Social Ownership, Fixed Pricing and Equality of Outcome are all part of Egalitarianism. So for example, all wheat produced by all farmers belongs equally to everyone, if one guy produces 50 bales of hay and one guy produces 500, it is all distributed equally. Then, as it is given to bakers all of different skill levels the prices of each loaf is fixed evenly across all of them, so that one baker who puts more work into his bread sells his loaf for the exact same price as a sloppy baker who burns his bread. That way, we have Equality of Outcome, in that no one is ever above another, regardless of merits.
If you've ever watched Game shows, sports, etc. and seen one person win while another loses that's inherently against the ideals of egalitarianism because an Egalitarian believes in the Equality of Outcome rather than the Equality of Opportunity.
A Meritocracy, which our society is close to is the exact opposite of that in that everyone has Equality of Opportunity, but not Equality of Outcome. If someone does better with the equal opportunity they will be rewarded above the person who does worse with the Equal Opportunity.
>>23906740
Also, I forgot to counter your other point, I got distracted.
An example would be that I live in a Democratic nation, I believe we should be a Democracy, therefore, I am a Democrat. Even though my beliefs are represented, I am still a Democrat as if my country were to try and instill some other form of government I would fight against it.
Just because I am not currently fighting for Democracy, doesn't mean I cease to be a Democrat. Just like if a Feminist wasn't fighting for Feminism at the time, wouldn't make her less of a Feminist.
>>23906783
you are the only person who have said it is equality of outcome, the very definition when I looked it up was equal opportunity, either its as bullshit as feminism because it does not accurately define itself and thus rendered pointless or you're wrong
>>23906804
you countered nothing, lol
all you have done is prove to me that feminism as a movement is bullshit because it can't define its goals, here you are paddling and stretching, if I ask any other movement they usually give me a quick few lines followed up by a link to a more detailed overview, you simply try and ignore the fact its a movement by dodging the question.
As a democrat you also have a lot of goals you need to reach, democrats have a goal saying we need a direct democracy to truly be a democratic nation, for example, so no, you do not at all live in a democratic nation yet
and when we do, the movement will end even if the definition and label stay in recorded history.
by your definition a revolutions never ends because the ideas live on even after they have completed all their goals.
mra reporting in
>>23906850
Do you consider yourself a men's rights activist?
>>23908346
lol, no
there 3 type of feminism
radical feminist,liberal feminist,and than sjw feminist
I consider myself egalitarian I suppose. I believe there are both men's rights and women's rights issues that need to be rectified. I dont support radical/sjw feminism but Id say by original d e finition I could be a feminist
>>23906524
I'm a feminist. That means SJW by most 4chan standards.
Yep me.
More sjws
