Is Tolkien's fantasy the last attempt at a European "High Culture"? Why has it failed to take hold in that way?
>>73403153
Tolkien was largely inspired by the old Norse sagas, and Beowulf.
>>73403153
Wait for the reboot and. They will put strong female charaters, put niggers, poo, chinks, spics, sand niggers, in the movie.
>>73403323
true. Tolkien combined influences from a broad set of European mythologies which he unironically loved and saw as integral to the spirit of Europe. In his story he doesn't focus on the lowest common denominator (eg telling a "realistic" story about the daily lives of normal people) but instead displays the highest and most sacred values of western culture through myth. Just as Homer wrote about the Olympians, Tolkien gives us the story of his people- his own creation, but deiberateky representative of broader western myth.
But somehow this is missed, and it's mostly seen as a meme fantasy that normies love.
>>73403323
Christianism was his greatest inspiration.
Also he was mocked when he originally released the first book for being too childish and below his skills. It took a long time before everyone saw the genius behind his work.
>>73403907
He was a devout Catholic, and Catholic theology is heavily influencing in his work. It's more or less a statement of his religious convictions. I'd go as far as to say that it is primarily a religious work.
>>73404145
Don't quote me on this but I remember him stating in one his letters that he was trying to give Britain it's own mythology since their religion was foreign.
>>73404874
He did. It's not that their religion was foreign, but he thought that the old myths, including pagan ones, were an important part of British history and identity. He also thought that they were sadly unknown by the general public, so he wanted to synthesize them together in a way that brought out the good ideas (honor, beauty, love of nature) without making it un-Christian
>>73403817
There's a reboot?
>>73403817
They can't change the books
>>73405781
You know it will inevitability happen.
>>73403907
Beowulf, which was a major inspiration for LOTR is culturally important because it was written at a time when Christian and Pagan worldviews were competing.
>>73403153
It failed because it was fantasy, not a movement.
>>73403153
The eye of sauron literally looks like the crescent spire over mecca, (with the eye being the star meteorite) and considering the Islamic jihad against europe for 1400 years i'd say tolkien was pretty red pilled.
Islam is literally the evil ones in LOTR and the men of the west fight against it.
>>73405903
>The books don't address Aragorn's skin color anywhere!
>It doesn't say he's not black!
>>73406146
>>73405986
I actually always thought the Calormen or whatever from Narnia was a better fit for this analysis.
>>73406148
>men of the west
>white
Dunedains are niggers of Middle Earth
>>73406148
I can already see it
>whitest movie ever
>wheres muh niggers? why is every single female attractive and straight? fucking abelist shitlord, there are no handicapable characters or downies in the movies
>directed by JJ Abrahms
They could never hope to make a better adaptation of the books.
>>73405903
>They can't change the books
you poor poor soul.
Just like they couldn't change star wars epidoce 4.5.6?
>>73407425
Oh fugg :DDD
I guess good goys don't care what's cannon
>>73405903
They will just make it happen after the books, problem solved.
>>73406946
The day they will try to remake Lotr with fags, blacks and feminism is the day we burn them in public.
They already went full feminism with Hobbit.
>>73403824
>Tolkien combined influences from a broad set of European mythologies
Yeah, for example Gandalf was modelled after Karkonosz - demon from Polish and Czech folklore.
>>73406946
>downies
KEK.
>>73403153
Tolkien was a pot smoking hippy.
>>73407306
Inb4 they will make aragon gay in this scene and the fallen brother in fact will be his gay mate...
This would kill me..
>>73408156
>says the Polish guy
Fuck off.
>>73403153
>implying it hasn't taken hold
>implying there is no such thing as a "breakaway civilization"
>implying said breakaway is not high culture
OY VEY
>>73408290
He's right though...
>>73406148
You have a point, with Aragorn being King n'd sheeit its reasonable to assume he's black
>>73403817
Already has sandmen, those pirates on the boats with elephants are moors/carthaginian types
>>73403153
Tolkien just wanted a place where he could put his languages because he realized a language cannot feel natural without a culture.
That's not to say he didn't care about it. It just wasn't his main interest.
>>73408156
No he wasn't. Gandalf was modelled after Woden the Wanderer. Tolkien didn't like shitty slav mythology, he liked Finnish and Germanic mytholgies.
>>73408290
Why?
>>73408871
And some of the Easterlings are basically Mongols/Huns, horse lives and Shit that enslaved the people of what is now Rohan
I haven't read the books but by the sound of them I wouldn't like them.
I like thick plot, suspense, and the like.
Having saiid that, I love the films, probably because they are a condensed version of the books.
The subject matter might by European through and through, but I fear the writing style was modern and .... erm... bland. (Again, going by what I've heard about the books.)
>>73408924
I think you missed your own point...
He had to develope a culture, which is what all of these fine minds are disscussing.
>>73407306
They will look for his coming from the white tower, but he will not return. ;_;
>>73409319
The writing style is great.
The people who complain that the writing style spends 20 pages describing the branches of a tree are stupid. The writing style of the books is based off the writing styles of Germanic Mytholgy (beowulf and other legends) and it has a very old, very traditional and very rustic feel to it, which makes it great for reading if you're innawoods or innacabin.
>>73409061
>shitty slav mythology
>Implying you know anything about slavic mythology.
It was larger and much more compex that other European mythologies combined.
>he liked Finnish mythology
Nope.
But Quenya language is based on Finnish indeed.
>>73409332
I'm pointing out that Tolkien didn't attempt to create a new Western fantasy canon, but he had to in order to achieve his objectives. So it was not "an attempt at high culture".
>>73409061
Is woden English for Odin?
>>73409319
You're a moron.
>>73409558
yes, old english / anglo saxon term for odin.
>>73409544
Slavic mytholgy wasn't larger or complex you dumb fuck. Tolkien based none of his writings on slav mytholgy, it was exclusively Germanic and finnish.
Tolkien based much of the mytholgy on the Kalevala, which you would know if you read any Tolkien.
>>73403153
It was a mythical history. Stop trying to bring some sort of allegory into it.
And stop saying orcs are niggers, you dumb niggers.
>>73406148
Idris Elba is a good actor and if he were Aragorn I think it would be okay. Hopefully they wouldn't portray Aragorn as a weak little bitch that doesn't want the throne, which is a far cry from what he was in the books.
>>73409558
>>73409626
Yes. Simply, Woden is english for Odin.
If you want to know further, there were a few differences. Odin was more of a mighty god in the mountain peaks (norway has lots of high mountains) and Woden was more of a primal god located in Forests. But those are only small differences.
>>73409712
>it was exclusively Germanic and finnish
ayyy
>>73409319
It is a suspenseful book, but you already know what's going to happen so...
>>73406148
>tfw this might actually happen
>>73409912
Please give proof that Tolkien used in Slavic mythology. Oh yeah, you can't.
>>73405903
>They can't change the books.
The Hardy Boys is an American series of novels about two smart white teenagers solving crimes to help their detective father. The original book series was reprinted with changed language after a few decades because the originals were "too racist" because of their portrayal of many criminals as minorities.
It may unfortunately happen with time.
>>73405085
Fuck off christfag.
>>73410155
I'm not a Christian, I just got over resentment
>>73409773
It wasn't an allegory for contemporary politics, but it is 100% a religious allegory, by Tolkien's own admission
>>73409956
they did it to the Gunslinger in The Dark Tower series.
The books specifically mention his skin color as white, and he has a romantic interest who is racist who comments on it, but apparently that takes a back seat to "diversity"
so idris elba is the new gunslinger
>>73403907
>>73404145
>>73405949
Actually the biggest influence on Tolkien would be The Kalavala.
He had a lot of inspiration from Norse and Christian mythologies but our lad Tolkien was a real Finnboo.
>>73410526
That was the main influence for much of the Silmarillion, though LOTR and the numenor story have other influences too
>>73403817
I can see Gandalf coming back as Gandalf the Black
>>73410494
i´m waiting 10+ years for the fucking movie series you are kidding?
>>73408136
Make sure to portray all the evil characters as white men though
>>73403817
Tolkien and the film adaptations is the last pure fantasy work. Its pure, unashamedly masculine and heroic, and pround of its origins.
I regard it as a bible. If they touch it, i'll go out on a spree killing.
>>73409540
Well, that writing style isn't great for me.
Perhaps you're write. Perhaps spending 20 pages describing a chair has some precedent in European writing, but when I think of Shakespeare, the prime Western writer, I think of quite tasty plots without too much dilly-dallying.
My favourite book is probably Quo Vadis. There is lots of scene-setting, but it rarely felt too much. Like I said before, Tolkien's work, going by what other people have said about it, would be too much scene-setting for me. I'd be thinking: Oh just get on with it.
>>73409890
Christ not this meme again
>>73406536
So much this
>roaming around
>'pretending' to be drunks and vagabonds
>we wuz kangz n shiet
>>73411531
>There is lots of scene-setting, but it rarely felt too much.
Or to put it another way: the fluffy, non-suspense parts were still relevant to the overall plot. Whilst spending 20 pages writing about trees.... I'm gonna finish that book and think: "Well I don't see what the point of all that tree-stuff was."
I don't really admire people for long prose, however beautifully written.
>>73411531
Try it out anyway mate. If you don't like the book then give it to someone else. The trilogy is less than £5, try it out and see if it's right for you.
>>73410964
It's going to be fucking aweful, everything I've read about points to
It being terrible, re-arranging the story, adding characters, trying to gear It YA
>>73411531
Quo Vadis is a goddamn encyclopedia compared to Tolkien, and far less happens, too. This isn't Tom Hardy. Stop making such a fuss out of it and read it already.
It's a novelization of the christian apocalpyse from a catholic point of view. Tolkien had to veil that because the jewified brits hate catholicism more than anything.
Aragorn arc = the catholic Great Monarch prophecy
Frodo and Sam = The Two Witnesses prophecy
Mordor = Israel
Sauron = jewish antichrist
There's a reason why there's an entire Lotr subculture going on among catholics.
>>73410964
No he's not kidding. And Matthew Meme-Man McConagheyy is Randall Flagg
I have no expectations whatsoever.
>>73411990
>and far less happens, too
I disagree.
Quo Vadis's depiction of the hero's volte-face in the face of the clash between Classical and Christian culture is amazing.
It is the best Christian material I have read. It didn't make me a Christian, but the depiction of the Christian's in the book is touching.
It's a slow start, mainly because, IIRC, it is setting up the society of the Roman's, which is necessary because the book is, as I have said, about the clash of civilisations, and you need to know both of the sides. So that by the end of the story, when Petronius offs himself, you see him as a hero representing an older, wiser form of Classical culture, whilst Nero is the degradation of that culture.
I'm not good at reading into literature, but Quo Vadis was an epic.
>>73409092
Harad and Rhune are the middleast... and they are evil and some not even human...also they gate the west with a passion... hmm sounds familiar
>>73412830
>Quo Vadis's depiction of the hero's volte-face in the face of the clash between Classical and Christian culture is amazing.
That's character development, not plot, which is what you were complaining about.
I'm not saying the book is bad, on the contrary, anon. I read and loved it too. That's why I can tell you this.
>>73403153
>Isengard
>A horde of race-mixed creatures led by a hook-nosed bearded guy
>pure coincidence
When somebody want to make a reboot there will not be white people to interpret the characters.
Gandalf will be muslim, Frodo a nigger and Arwen will wear burka.
>>73412938
Wow, did you dumb faggots not even read the books? Sam's speech about being evil or being misguided is one of the small, yet big, messages of the books.
>>73413072
Yes, the character development in the book is brilliant.
The only book I've read which rivals it is The Small House at Allington, which basically depicts a nervous young teen's bitter-sweet transformation into a respected member of society.
But I'm not widely read, so that isn't saying much.
>>73403153
How so? there were no blacks in tolkien's middle earth
>>73403817
I'm pretty sure Peter Jackson confirmed he's doing the similarion. Whichis pretty much history and lore of middle earth.
>>73413869
I hope not. Peter Jackson fucked LotR up in a way.
>>73413869
I thought The Hobbit films were meh.
Won't get hyped for whatever else he does.
Though I do wonder whether The Hobbit films would have done better if they had came out before the LOTR films.
>>73403153
>fantasy shlock
>high culture
I remember what it was like being 14
Isn't Rohan based on the Kingdom of Mercia?
>>73414266
