What is it about modern warfare that causes this PTSD "epidemic"
Disability payments
>>72942841
fpbp
>>72942666
I think it's the fact that there's death flying all around you, you can't see it, and you could be dead in an instant before you even realized what happened. It's "unnatural." Back before firearms it was hand to hand, just you and the guy in front of you (and lots of adrenaline), punching and stabbing and slashing. It was more animalistic, more "natural." Sure, you might get hit with an arrow or something but you might still know when it was coming and brace yourself.
That's my take on it
Modern warfare isn't exactly like premodern warfare, and PTSD existed even before we actively started studying and documenting it.
they probably didn't record it back in the day therefore they might have suffered in silence and the symptoms being blamed on bad spirits
>>72942666
>No clear mission
>No draft meaning more deployments, multiple tours
>immediately shipped back to a country that has largely ignored what is going on in the country you almost died for
its a lack of a good enough system in the army to deal with traumatic incidents, so the brain stores the memories without processing them in a healthy manner
having a debriefing for example will help manage the memories, and change them so that when you recall them later you dont get put back into the situation and start killing everybody
Soldiers are more likely to live thanks to medical advances and can cause massive damage with technological advances.
>>72943285
forgot to mention: memories are closely related to emotional status.
>>72943285
>Need mo money fo dem programs!
Every time
>>72942666
pussyfied men
>>72942666
It's always existed, just by other names. Shell Shock, Battle Fatigue, etc. It's just better understood now
>>72942666
It became a recognized condition. PTSD has existed under one name or another forever. Nothing's changed.
>>72942666
Helicopters.
> The average infantryman in the South Pacific during World War II saw about 40 days of combat in four years. The average infantryman in Vietnam saw about 240 days of combat in one year thanks to the mobility of the helicopter.
>>72943223
>>immediately shipped back to a country that has largely ignored what is going on in the country you almost died for
No one gives a shit about your service faggot.
You are the one who signed up, you are the one you chose to go into indentured servitude at the hands of a country who does not have your best interests at hand.
You deserve nothing more than what you get paid during your tours.
STOP BEING BITCHES ABOUT IT.
>t. Retired EOD1 who was offered a disability check even though I had zero hearing loss and only saw combat a handful of times.
When you believe you're at deaths door, you reach the tipping point and your entire psyche literally breaks.
Never to be fixed.
>>72942666
Bombs and guns.
Humans are not adapted to that kind of warfare, it fucks with your brain
>>72943434
amazing
anyway, its the soldiers themselves that do this debriefing. if you dont organize your thoughts and air them, you suppress them, then they come out at inopportune moments. but by all means, stay american (90 iq)
PTSD existed before, it just mostly went unnoticed. People often compare the US veterans of WWII to those in Vietnam while forgetting that the average US soldier in WWII saw ten days of combat a year when the ones in Vietnam saw two hundred.
>>72943582
>No one gives a shit about your service faggot.
>You are the one who signed up, you are the one you chose to go into indentured servitude at the hands of a country who does not have your best interests at hand.
This IMO is the only reason we need to bring back the draft.
When America's son's are dying against their will in a war we know we have no business in we actually have the balls to say "No fuck you Congress we're done end it or your career is over".
With a volunteer military you've said what basically everyone is thinking.
>>72943789
>US soldier in WWII saw ten days of combat a year when the ones in Vietnam saw two hundred.
See
>>72943505
Right idea wrong numbers
>>72943643
This.
Honestly after living long enough with a shrieking wife you'll get a sort of ptsd at whatever reminds you of things that would make her shriek.
I'm dead fucking serious. Compare just normal civilian life like that to the deafening loud ass noises you hear while body parts are flying all over the place.
>>72943911
>40 days in four years
>10 days in one year
>>72943480
This. In WW1 it was called "kRiegszittern" in Germany and Austria
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriegszitterer
Literally "War shakes"
It always existed but the way wars are fought now may have increased it.
>>72943019
Even in medieval times knights and especially vanguards had extreme PTSD. I just wasn't documented because it was considered normal or that you weren't acting manly if you complained about it. They'd usually end up in hullicinated flashbacks just by the sound of clashing metal.
>>72943582
You're right, no one gives a shit about your service. However service is duty and duty calls the best. Bring back mandatory service to America. Stop globalism from using our military as their pet attack dogs.
>>72942666
http://www.amazon.com/Odysseus-America-Combat-Trauma-Homecoming/dp/074321157X
>>72942666
Far fewer people used to die in battle when it was swords and shields. There were also fewer stressers, fewer bombs and loud noises. Pitched battle was probably much less mentally draining than a 72 hour fire fight.
>>72943582
Sure, but it's still a big part of the correct answer. There's no significant changes when you get back, you're just 'back' and expected to be normal again. There's no meaningful ceremony, no religious ritual, you're just back at the grocery store or at work.
>>72942666
It's not a modern thing. There are writings of it since ancient Greece.
But until the Vietnam war the term PTSD didn't exist.
Before that it was mostly diagnosed as "shell shock" or "post-battle fatigue".
>>72944054
you guys are mixing ptsd with brain damage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Jll9_EiyA
if someone comes into your home and rapes your children, forces you to watch ect. it will be how you store those memories that decides when you get "triggered" and relive that moment
if you lie in a trench and get your ears blown out every 30 minutes for months you get a brain damage
war usually is a combination of both these things. doesnt mean they are the same thing
>>72942666
Modern war is more chaotic and random, bullets and explosions all over the place etc.
ofc ptsd existed prior to modern warfare its just alot more prevalent in todays conflicts
As people have said, it always existed but wasn't called PTSD or diagnosed as a mental disorder.
But I also think a large part of it comes from the advent of modern weaponry. Having talked to Iraq vets and watched documentaries on the subject, a large part of PTSD comes from the idea that a bullet or mortar can hit you at any second. It's not so much being in combat, but the fear of combat, that really fucks with you.
>>72944261
I'd wager to say that there was many more causalities during the times of hand to hand combat than nowadays
>>72942666
Not being in control.
Getting killed by artillery and bombs which are 90% of deaths in modern combat.
IEDs and asymmetric warfare also dont help when your soldiers are shit, like in the US.
>>72942666
>What is it about modern warfare that causes this PTSD "epidemic"
i remember reading that all medieval knights had ptsd and would cry out and have interrupted sleep. its not a new thing.
>>72942666
not allowed to do as much raping to cool off as you used to
>>72942666
Realization that you were the bad guy and villain all along.
>>72944965
the casualty rate was higher, and your job was much more gruesome and face to face, but the armies were miniscule and the scale of combat was smaller compared to modern warfare.
>>72944965
I agree with this. But also consider:
Because we have modern medicine, soldiers wounded on the front lines can be saved. But by being saved, they live with the memories of war.
Thus, more PTSD.
>>72942666
Longer deployments in longer battles, modern battles being 99% chance, modern battles being waged with technology like artillery and air power.
Much tougher living conditions as a result, etc etc.
They didn't really start to see this level of Battlefield Crazy until WW1, and they wisely learned about halfway through that conflict how to mitigate it somewhat.
To be fair, at the time no one really expected things to degenerate that quickly or be as sustained as they were.
In WW1 it was the artillery bombardments that really drove them over the edge.
I remember listening to an interview with the writer of the film Jardhead (not the book author) who was also a Vietnam veteran. He said as horrible as Vietnam's general conditions were, and ambushes and firefights, the most terrifying thing was artillery bombardments, and that when he read the book and the author talked about pissing himself during his first artillery strike, he laughed because he did exactly the same thing during his.
Apparently it's the sound/impact jolt and complete randomness of it that drives them nuts.
PTSD has always existed, but in the past it was chalked up to literal demons or generalized madness and not attributed to war. Now that we know mental health is a thing, we see it a bit differently.
>>72942666
asymmetrical warfare
We are men from the future fucking up a bunch of medieval age minded and poorly armed goat herders with their families from helicopters
we are not sacking carthage, we are not storming normandy, no body is fending off mongolian hordes and that makes soldiers sad enough to want to kill themselves
>>72944072
Apparently there are some differences.
Which also led people after WW1 and 2 to wonder if it was an actual physical side effect as much as mental, brought on by the concussive nature of modern warfare. They had the usual screaming crazies and fucked up loonies they'd seen and heard of before - but not this sort of "nervous wreck" ailment;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Jll9_EiyA
>>72942666
>What is it about modern warfare that causes this PTSD "epidemic"
1. Its nothing new, there are countless descriptions of it in old texts.
2. Driving around knowing that you might at any minute hit and IED that does pic related wasn't a reality back in the days and between battles there where times to rest and recover. Now its constant patrols risk of getting BTFO by IED's.
3. You are a faggot.
>>72942666
It's always been a problem but nobody cared until now Mr. Satan.
>>72942666
I think the pills they give them are probably fucked up, psychiatry in the US has turned into a scam for some time now. Its easier to give fucked up pills than to put a person into therapy, group sessions, etc.
>>72944965
>nowadays
Maybe.
A lot of what we know about PTSD comes from 20th Century Wars - In which casualties were mind boggling huge on a scale ancient warfare couldn't even dream of.
The conditions were also a lot worse and a lot more prolonged, and the death and injuries much more haphazard and meaningless.
But I think the last war like that was probably the Iraq-Iran war, and I don't think we've had a Western war like that since probably Vietnam, and even that was much less wide ranging than WW1 or 2.
>>72943223
Gotta agree with these but I'm sure there are plenty more
I think war is so fast paced and unpredictable now for a foot soldier. Seriously there is total chaos going around you every t you are constantly locked into war mode and eventually you can't get yourself out of war mode.
>>72944072
I can imagine a man going batshit crazy when he's wife accidentally drops a pan or some shit.
Humanizing your enemy.
>>72942841
this desu senpai
>>72942666
Also, you have to account for the fact that these conditions didn't have labels affixed to them before. It's like when people say "hurr durr autism is on the rise". Well no, it's just that identification and documentation of autism has increased because people know about it now. Before, someone with autism would've just been written off as a social awkward goon and that was that. Doesn't mean more people actually have it now than before.
It's the violence. I don't know why that's so hard to admit. It's the one common denominator that links the phenomenon of PTSD through all the wars in history where it's popped up under one name or another. Man as a species is violent, but men as individuals, mostly, aren't. Most people just want to get along. Excessive, prolonged violent experiences will ((((trigger)))) something in most people.
>>72942841
/thread
How many layers of irony are you guys on right now.
>>72942666
What you are about to read is the correct answer.
tl;dr: Men not defending their homes.
Men going out into the lands of others (who have no limits on the depravity they will use to defend their homeland) will run up against the most awful shit imaginable.
Men in Iraq were, for their own safety, forced to run over children with their HMVees. I say "forced," but really that was only forced by our neocon jewish overlords. Bam, PTSD.
OTOH, if chinese tanks were rolling through our neighborhoods, it would be no holds barred, and children strapping bombs to themselves and blowing up those tanks would be seen as martyrs.
It's one of the reasons empires don't work, and the U.S. doesn't have the minerals for empire. Our judeo-elites have been trying to shoehorn us into empire for ~100 yrs. Too bad their sons and daughters were at the same time convincing our youth to be total shitbirds.
The jewish parasite: not even once.
>>72942666
A major factor is that the enemy isn't wearing uniforms. You're constantly on edge. Veterans come back and nothing is different. Hajis behind every corner.
>>72945901
I tend to lean to the same reasoning. Back then it was war on/off. Either you rest/march, or you're running into straight into your enemy.
>>72945658
did they survived?
>>72945976
Maybe.
Except you had veterans of previous wars serving in WW1 who said the way the conflicts had changed drove men mad.
But maybe that was just the fact that the violence and misery in WW1 was simply on an unprecedented scale and directly affected far, far, far more people.
Like you go on a campaign in ancient times, and you have one large battle in which 5,000 men die out of your 60,000 army.
Then in WW1 you lose 60,000 in an afternoon. And there is no "battlefield" to retreat from at nightfall and wait for tomorrow. It's just a continuous battlefield for months on end, day and night.
So it could simply be that it's exactly the same, just dispersed on a larger scale.
>>72942666
You dont know who the enemy is.
Imagine getting deployed and anyone in your sight can be working to getting you killed. And thats every day.
How can you live like that for years?
>>72946136
People were defending their homes in WW1 and 2.
I think the difference there is that they didn't strap up, ride off and engage in organized conflict to protect their homes.
They basically got told; "When I blow the whistle, stand up and get torn to pieces by flying chunks of metal, fire and poisonous gas, k thanx"
I think dealing with the fact that you weren't being asked to "fight" to protect your land, but you were being asked to act as basically a disposable wall of flesh to soak up enough bullets so that the other guy runs out of ammo probably did a number on their heads.
>>72945329
Lol I think you got this completely backwards
Just taking the Roman legion as an example, typically the casualty rate of a battle would be about 3-6%. Much more if there was a rout obviously. Stabbing someone was probably not as gruesome as seeing someone get blown to bits. And most of the injuries sustained were relatively minor cuts which could fester later one but generally not debilitating but beheadings and other gruesome stuff was generally not a feature of battle, there was no time to really fuck someone's shit up, it was stab/slash then advance.
Generally speaking if you got out of a battle unscathed yourself you likely wouldn't suffer any more psychologically than say a doctor in an ER ward because the only real trauma would be seeing people screaming in agony.
The armies were often much larger. When is the last time 50,000 men have taken to the field at once?
Ancient warfare was about concentrating one's forces.
>>72942666
I think it's just more understood and soldiers are less likely to bundle it up and man on.
>>72946136
>>72943480
Oh hello George Carlin
>>72946679
You make a good point, my shitposter-american friend.
In ww1, we shifted to a system where an entire calvary of the most brave men ever fielded could be cut down by a total noob with a water-cooled machine gun.
In that regard, it could be said that the industrial revolution made PTSD a thing, since the human psyche cannot compete with the result of precision-engineered metal spitting flaming bullets and artillery at them.
>>72946734
>>72945329
Let me put the casualty rates in perspective. The centurion was an extremely valuable asset and he always fought at the front of the legion to inspire the troops. Do you think Rome would have survived putting its best men at the front of the line in every engagement if the casualty rates were as high as today?
>>72943468
go to war faggot. you're too much of a bitch to even stand up against the domestic invasion going on in your country.
>>72946734
WW2 was probably the last time we saw those sorts of numbers.
People often forget that WW1 was so destabilizing on soldiers that even by WW2 whole new measures had been introduced to stop PTSD. More frequent rotation, no more large pitched battles, more mobilization, a limit on the types of weapons used, commanders not literally ordering 100,000 men at a time (or only in the rarest of cases) to walk into barbwire and machine gun fire.
>>72946154
Motivation would play a part in this too. The British dealt with this in Northern Ireland, but their was a long running ethnic/political animosity. These weren't strange and alien people wanting to kill you for seemingly no reason (to you). These were people you'd had animosity towards for half a century.
>>72943661
Norway bringin' the banter ayyy
>>72942666
It's not a new thing. People are just paying more attention to it.
>>72942666
What makes you think that "pre-modern" soldiers didn't develop the disorder?
I'd imagine that being a line-infantry soldier during the Napoleonic wars or being a warrior in ancient Greece would be equally traumatizing.
>>72942666
If you're talking about gulf war syndrome, it's because we're using depleted uranium in the munitions. Muh eugenics
>>72942666
Not enoughSociopaths permitted in the forces maybe!
>>72943480
>It's always existed, just by other names.
Historians suggest that "people didn't really die in wars of old."
Fascinating point tho. The record suggests that armies would stand on opposite hills and beat their chests until one went home. We know that the Romans invented combat discipline, and ACTUALLY KILLED PEOPLE, and were able to butcher their way almost across their known world.
From the poetry/stories/historians, I believe that most didn't die in war (except maybe of pestilence). Most warriors dropped their shields and ran from the opposing phalanx.
This shit is fascinating, pls keep this thread un-jewed.
My bumper-sticker: Socrates was a hoplite.
>>72946898
You hear accounts of WW1 from survivors of some of the battles, and they said essentially no one believed they would survive their call to the front lines. You basically accepted that as your death, and for most of the guys they saw no logical outcome for it.
They also described the alien nature of industrialized warfare, especially artillery. Just a continuous ocean like roar and the ground shaking constantly and occasionally someone near you would explode into pulp.
Then you'd have to sit in that bloody pulp and shit and vomit for several days not knowing exactly when you would randomly explode.
They didn't even get to see the enemy to get the adrenaline flowing, half the time. It was just "stand up, run into that gas/smoke, get tangled in barbed wire and either explode or get chewed up by machine gun fire".
All the training and experience in the world is for naught and you have no control over the outcome.
>sign up to murder people for money
>murder people for money
>watch friends die murdering people for money
>get back home
>get treated like a murderer for hire
>cry because they said you would be a hero
>>72942666
We can diagnose it more effectively and mental illness is less taboo than itbised to be. PTSD is not on the rise due to environmental factors but increasing due to a better ability to diagnose it.
>>72946496
Yep, back in the day people where marching for days, looking the countryside and fighting every now and then.
Then in ww1 you just marched to the trench and sat there and waited to go over the top and die or get a shell in your part of the trench and die. No sight seeing nature, no change in scenery, just the same old trench with the only thing telling how long you been there is the state of decay of the bodies in no mans land.
PMC operator here.
American soldiers are not in for war, they are in for the benefits (free college, free healthcare, free shit) or because they are incompetent no good idiots whose only option would be robbing a liquor store while hopefully getting killed in the process.
As a result you see a lot of manchildren and drama queens doing the bare minimum, then coming back home and throwing tantums about MUH HORRORS. Apparently Hollywood encourages this as well, and crying like a baby is now an acceptable and manly thing to do for a "hardened veteran".
Recruiters in my line of business are frowining upon members coming from the US military for this specific reason anyway. PTSD is something very rare among non american soldiers.
>>72943019
Fucking coward archer scumfucks can suck my fucking dick. October 25 1415 WORST DAY OF MY FUCKING LIFE.
Few people here think that its context and storyline that causes the ptsd, its not. Wether you are the invader or the invaded, the more you are exposed to near death yexpirience and the more you sense the bullets might find you, then its triggered.
Post war depression is related to that and to the storyline..
>>72947306
>The record suggests that armies would stand on opposite hills and beat their chests until one went home.
can someone substantiate this, sounds like some bullshit
>>72942666
Anxiety of ambush and ied. In ww2 and Korea combat was fairly regular and predictable. In Vietnam and Iraq2003 soldiers encountered dozens of small ambushes in a single day and then nothing for weeks at a time.
>all volunteer army
>once you're in they keep you coming back tour after tour
>forced to commit atrocities against innocents
>no reintegration into society
Gee I wonder
>>72947170
Well, we have records.
The Napoleonic Wars are a good example. Most wars were fought in the same manner as they were right up until the Civil War, and in Europe, even later - to the point that some of those leading and fighting in WW1 had experienced those styles of conflict.
They noted the difference in the effects, and some, like the French, had been keenly aware of reports of the effects of modern war on individuals from conflicts like the civil war and the russo-sino war, and had taken SOME precautions, like implementing rotation.
They saw a distinction between the mental issues caused by violent trauma and "shell shock", which was more of a nervous disorder. The jumpiness and unease, rather than derangement.
>>72942666
Fighting wars for the Jew does that.
>>72947323
>They also described the alien nature of industrialized warfare, especially artillery. Just a continuous ocean like roar and the ground shaking constantly and occasionally someone near you would explode into pulp.
This, I personally believe the constant 24/7 feeling that you may explode at any second would make anyone snap.
And to do this for years without a break? Fuck me.
>>72942666
It's the drug and vaccines that they force upon the enlisted.
>>72942841
Probably a combination of this, and troops wanting to go home early.
I reckon there are a lot of fakers, and fair enough too. Playing army man isn't fun like in movies. Some have to learn the hard way.
>>72947463
top-tier film
>>72943019
Fruity Rudy from Generation Kill said to offload the extreme brutality of fighting the Samurai would do very relaxing, feminine things like flower arranging to balance themselves out, this true?
Shellshock.
Battle fatigue.
Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.
All the same thing. Has it always existed? Who knows. Two aspects of this that are an outcome of our fucked up shitstorm known as modernity.
First and foremost, the increasing attempt to hide from reality by using fancy jargon. This devalues the term and renders it almost meaningless. Just another example of mundane sof nihilism. Now, someone can get 'PTSD' from a car crash. Give me a break.
Secondly, shell shock became more of an issue only in the 20th century because not only the mechanisation of war, but also the effect of conscription- men fighting for something they had little motivation for and the higher proportion of cowardly men.
>>72942984
What is fbpb? I'm not the newest of fags, I just work a lot.
>>72947170
>>ancient Greece would be equally traumatizing
>be in the middle of phalanx
>third row
>damn we got lots of spear, no way any will beat us
>meet another phalanx
>both formations clash
>slowly get crushed between enemy spears and friendlies from behind pushing on your back
>can't even move away from spear tip that is slowly pressing through the man in front of you and then continuing into your chest.
>>72943582
>You deserve nothing more than what you get paid during your tours.
>STOP BEING BITCHES ABOUT IT.
>>72947538
I can't substantiate it, but there is a lot of recorded history that shows the difference.
Essentially a conflict in ancient times would see low mortality rates during the actual "fighting". The mass killing came during the routs.
You saw this at one of the largest/most famous Ancient battles at Cannae. The Romans basically fought as usual until they were surrounded. They then laid down and the Carthaginians moved in and began slaughtering them like cattle. Some of them even committed suicide rather than wait.
Whereas in Modern warfare (basically WW1 and 2) the mortality rate exploded right at the start of battles. Which is why so many sides got BTFO early on and the wars turned into such shit fights.
>>72944299
I think in the civil war it was called "seeing the elephant"
>>72947754
first post, best post
it's quite common on 4chan. Once you see it it's hard to miss.
>>72946466
That truck is probably 12-14 tons and it was lifted maybe 4 meters in the air.... I'm going to say no.
>>72947705
Not just that, but the actual physical effects of literally hours upon hours of non stop shelling. Literally hours of massive explosions that are coming at the pace of a rapid drum beat. You cannot pause, rest, focus. It would be enough to break most people.
As far as I know one of the main reasons it's become a bigger problem is that soldiers who returned from wars like WW2 would once the war was over spend a few months just hanging around with the rest of their soldier friends, and travel home took a longer time giving them time to reflect on the events. Soldiers nowadays just get shipped home in a C130 after a few days and then they might not see or hear much of anyone from their company again, leaving all those emotions from the war bottled up and left to develop into PTSD. Can't remember where I read this but it seems reasonable to me.
>>72942666
Nice trips but yeah read Johnny Got His Gun this shit has been happening for as long as people documented it!
>>72947992
Well I am one of the people that experienced what bombs falling sounds like IRL and it's loud as fuck yes, I dont think I could stand hearing that sound without stopping for days, let alone months or years.
>>72942666
It's like everything else.
It's not the increase in a thing.
It's the better understanding of the thing.
We just have a better understanding of PTSD then we did 100 years ago.
>>72947323
>>72947538
>can someone substantiate this, sounds like some bullshit
Caesar and Christ by Durant, pg 384 (and sources, too lazy atm).
The Arab Mind, 2002, pg 233.
We didn't have enough time to evolve with technology.
>>72947763
I don't think it was considered feminine but it is true that they did shit like origami. It was part of their culture, a real warrior mastered every part of life. Like a warrior monk or something like that.
>>72947538
Most ancient battles would have one army start to win, then the loser would retreat to fight again on more favourable terms. Usually you'd see 10% or so of an army die in the fighting, then many more would be killed as they retreat. It's why cavalry were so important to have in an army; so you could catch up with the fleeing forces to prevent future battles.
>>72947545
WW2 in the Pacific was more like Vietnam.
>Sit in Jungle
>See no enemy for days or weeks
>Rains 24/7
>Constantly shitting and pissing yourself thanks to infection
>Literally starving because supply lines are cut by Japanese sneak raids
>Once in awhile you get sniped or explode thanks to a landmine.
>If you're even luckier you stumble upon a fellow soldier who had gone missing and find him with his eyes gouged out and his dick in his mouth
>Never see the enemy
>Eventually get orders to move onto the next island
>>72946982
>Do you think Rome would have survived putting its best men at the front of the line in every engagement if the casualty rates were as high as today?
Yes! U.S. military doctrine puts the designated marksman up front.
There's something to be said for leading from the front.
>>72943829
I doubt they can be trusted with guns.
>>72942666
Combat vet here, did two tours. For me it's the hypervigilance, the constantly being on guard because something could happen at any time. It's hard to shut it off when you get back. It can cause tremendous anxiety in crowded areas. And for me I can't even use the "all of that happened overseas, I'm safe at home now" logic because my company got hit in the Ft Hood shootings and 3 of my friends died. All of the paranoia also comes from an instinct to protect others around me, and not fear for my own life.
>>72947763
It wasn't feminine or relaxing. But tea ceremonies and art were considered important, almost habitual, cultural institutions. It had a lot to do with discipline. Very Victoria Era ideas of self control. Sort of like taking your dirty shoes off when you go into your house.
>>72942666
The weapons used.
>The volume of the explosions and gunshots
>The vibration of the explosions
>The scare factor of bullets whistling and missing
>The scare factor of bullets hitting buddies; death completely unexpected
>Not coming toe to toe with an enemy; edgy as it might sound, it's easier on the psyche to vanquish a foe than to press a button and erase him
These are still all enormously unnatural to mankind. It's not so much the death and suffering as it is the realization that nobody really has a fair chance when every man can do what gods did in legends of old.
what sets SEALS apart who can keep coming back for more or do they have problems to?
>>72945271
>Realization that you were the bad guy and villain all along.
this. the Vietnamese didnt get ptsd
>>72942666
PTSD was pandemic in Vietnam
PTSD was pandemic in the World Wars
PTSD was pandemic in the American Civil War
PTSD was pandemic in the 100 Years War
PTSD isn't new
>>72948042
Yeah i read it to. Soldiers in ww2 rotated down in whole units and got shipped home in ships and then got got chance to decompress for weeks with the bros at the ship.
Then Vietnam came and the soldiers where some times rotated individually and they where flown home in planes. No time to decompress or talk about what happened, one day your are seeing your friend getting blown to pits by and RPG and stepping on sharp bamboo and the other day you are at home wiping hippie spit out of your eyes.
>>72942666
It's having to learn to cope with what you've done in the line of duty, nothing more, nothing less. Libtards like to bitch and moan when armed forces call them gooks, zipperheads, hadji, etc. but ignore the fact that as an invading force in a foreign country you're liable to not only be facing adult combatants in uniform but civilians as well.
A twelve year old kid with an AK-47 is just as deadly when you're clearing a building as Jihadi John is.
>>72948419
They say themselves they have lots of problems.
>Keep coming back
Some of them keep going back because they claim they can't readjust to civilian life and prefer to be in a combat ready situation.
>>72948423
Having had to grow up and live around Vietnamese migrants, I can tell you this is bullshit.
Crazy little fucks.
>>72948539
Yeah, that sounds about right.
>>72948042
In WW2 the Yanks would ship back to Australia and spend a couple of months if not more getting drunk and impregnating Australian broads. Didn't have to return to work or "normal" life for a bit.
>>72947293
This, mental health standards are too strict. If you only let in low-IQ normies with no history then obviously they're going to tard out when the time comes. I'll admit that I'm bitter because I was denied the opportunity to serve because of a history of violence, but I'm literally signing up to go commit violence against whoever you want so I don't see the incompatibility to be honest familio.
>>72948042
>leaving all those emotions from the war bottled up and left to develop into PTSD
This. I read an article about drone pilots having a worse rate of PTSD than regular soldiers due to then being "at war" all day then going hime to there family each night. The dissonance between killing people, and then suddenly being safe at home is not good for you emotionally or mentally.
>>72948760
Depends on your charge.
"A history of violence" could indicate discipline problems, which makes you kind of useless in the military. But that would be dependent on what you did of course.
>>72944100
>It's your duty to """defend""" you country against goatfuckers on another continent that have no chance of crossing the Atlantic and attacking Americans in their homes.
I'm glad we don't have the draft. At least natural selection is weeding out the retards
>>72947372
>with the only thing telling how long you been there is the state of decay of the bodies in no mans land.
It's hard to describe just how true this is. In ww1 the skies around trenches would often be dark for days as the air was thick with so much smoke and dirt. It was hell on earth.
>>72947538
Most people didn't die in war before the industrial revolution, unless it was from pestilence or some side-malady. It's something that isn't controversial now among a broad swath of historians of the ancient/classical/medieval period. I'm proud to have been a small part of that data-mining 18 yrs ago when I was an academic.
The implication is pretty awful tho, tb.honest. It goes a long way towards explaining the sudden instances of "PTSD" or whatever the latest name for it is.
Point is, you're fucked if you're a soldier, and a state power should be more careful than ever to send these kids (oldfag reporting) to war instead of less careful, which we have seen lately. These two forces are tearing apart the ability for nation-states to project power beyond their own borders.
Being mentally #rektd because BP wants unfettered access to resources? Yeah, not worth it. Better off cutting deals.
Gee, I wonder where we could find a deal-maker for President.... (picrel)
>>72948783
That sounds a lot like social conditioning.
It would definitely help if you were raised in a culture where these actions weren't viewed negatively.
>>72942666
It's because it's so easy to go from "I'm safe" to "I'm completely fucked."
Walking through a town and suddenly a sniper shots barely misses your head. You can't see the enemy, you can't see where the shot came from, you can't even see what almost killed you. It's just the unseen death everywhere and there are no warning signs of it coming. From air strikes to artillery to road mines, etc.
Modern soldiers develop this keen hypervigilance in an attempt to keep themselves alive, but evolution couldn't have anticipated such a ridiculous fighting scenario where there is no benefit from higher perception and vigilance. It doesn't help you. No matter how adapted you are you can't see bullets. You can't see the mines in the dirt. You can't see the sniper on the hill miles and miles away.
PTSD is the result of our body and mind desperately trying to solve a problem it can't solve. To be ready for something it can't anticipate. To the point that it physically changes our brain and our chemistry.
>>72948599
bullshit we used to do much more horrible things to eachother on the battlefield, much more personally.
ptsd is caused by the lack of any solace that comes with modern warfare. in the old days you were relatively safe until you were actually on the battlefield in sight of the enemy, and then you go back home. since ww1 instant, violent horrible death has been around the corner every single second for months, day and night, you can suddenly just blow up without any warming. this constant stress without releif is what causes ptsd because it totally frys your brain
>>72948760
They don't want people flipping out and harming their own, and shooting to wound rather than kill takes two enemies off the battlefield instead of one.
>>72948929
this senpai
>>72948878
how old are u?
just curious to some of our demographics here and why an oldfag would be drawn to /pol/
>>72948876
One upside to all of your dead friends and their body parts remaining in the trench with you; Pillows.
>tfw British soldiers took the decapitated head and severed arm of one of their fellow soldiers, named him "Bob" and mounted them in the trench, and would walk past him in the morning, say "Hello Bob" and shake his hand for good luck.
>>72948834
>I'm glad we don't have the draft.
Aren't they going to reintroduce the draft? For both for men and women this time.
>>72948962
I'm just repeating what a family member confided in me, Anon.
>>72942841
this
>>72948929
You hear the same from criminals who have been in jail.
Tell tale sign being constantly hunched up shoulders and "peeking".
There is also the mental conditioning they inflict on themselves; "Cut myself off from friends and family, accept that I'm already dead".
Then you go back into the normal world and you have these ingrained tendencies to deal with.
>>72942666
The mitigation rate of organization, mobilization and execution is razor thin. Men used to march out of camp, steel themselves for 4+ hours while their leaders moved them to changing positions, then face a total of ~10 possible deaths before a charge of bayonets, shoulder to shoulder with friendlies. Imagine a Napoleonic grenadier in Vietnam.
>>72948929
>To the point that it physically changes our brain and our chemistry.
And there is no down time either.
Back in the day you could sit at a hill, see smoke from the enemy camp 8 mile away and think ''they won't be here until tomorrow, better get some rest'' and you would be right. People couldn't kill you from over a 1km away, rarely even 100 meters. Then the rifling became mainstream, artillery got better, the rate of fire increased and everything changed.
Now you never know.
>>72948962
>since ww1 instant, violent horrible death has been around the corner every single second for months, day and night, you can suddenly just blow up without any warming. this constant stress without releif is what causes ptsd because it totally frys your brain
That's the stuff that frightens me.
>Sitting in trench, bunker, whatever
>All of a sudden I'm on fucking fire
>Patrolling street
>All of a sudden my legs are blown off my body
This shit would drive me mad.
>>72949044
No you're thinking of selective service
Every male aged 18-25 is eligible to be drafted if the circumstances are so dire
They want to do the same for females
>>72949031
I'm an oldfag, just turned 40. I've been here for ~12 yrs. I love it because I can speak completely freely outside an academic or business context. I'm somewhat successful, live between a boat and a florida island, and I'm healthy.
I am an anon every day because I don't think me and my experience are worth much more than some underageb& faggot. The prevailing order needs to be destroyed either way.
The U.S. needs to be delivered from the kikes, and I think the youngfags for the first time have the fucking minerals to do it. We've been waiting so long for them...
Back in my day, the ppl were useless, but you guys are something special. Never let them intimidate you.
>>72948876
>It was hell on earth
This is why I will always think WWI was worse than WWII.
The amount of death was less, but much faster.
The Earth was geologically changed forever.
France now has a layer of iron below the surface.
Explosions, gunfire
>>72949289
Yep, at least you can see the enemy. Ironically I found all this shit out by studying the effects of child abuse on children. It tends to manifest itself in complex ptsd, more alike to POWs where the abusive environment lasts for years. In general PTSD is all about acquiring habits that help you stay alive (React fast enough to a noise and you might actually survive) but when you return to normal, civilian life it prevents you from living normally. And sadly it's not just behavioral, PTSD changes your actual body.
>>72949044
i think they did that here
>>72943223
I heard about veterans who literally went into severe depression when ISIS took over Ramadi, and most Americans didn't even know where Ramadi was, or what significance it had
>>72948832
Just a lot of fights and too many arrests. Discipline is easy, you can drill discipline into anybody. Again, you'd teach discipline differently to a group of violent men than you would to a group of fresh faced 18 year old high-scool graduates who love their country, but it could be drilled in either way. Do you think that Centurions were totally sane nice people? Did the Persians ever turn down a soldier because "he fought too much?" You get these kids who glorify war (/pol/) and then show up and all of a sudden the romance stops and they can't cope, the military needs people who know the realities of life and violence. Captain America is not real. You can't have some fresh-faced patriot farmboy who is at the same time an efficient and mentally stable killer. Take that American Sniper guy that everybody hates. He obviously had some issues with empathy and emotion but he was good at his job, he wasn't a live-wire and he never put anybody in jeopardy from a lack of discipline, but he certainly wasn't what is currently known as "totally stable." He admitted to liking the killings, and he killed hundreds, but you don't see him crying about it. Instead of encouraging that sort of soldier, we convince patriotic, romantic suburbanite children to enter life-or-death situations and expect them to come out unphased. I'm not saying that we need an army of nutjobs, because obviously that's a horrible idea, I'm just saying that we kind of have a pussy mentality with what disqualifies an individual from service, which in some small way is contributing to the increase in PTSD. We go and kill threats while pretending that we don't, we glorify the helicopters and the flag and the uniforms and by the time the naive kid is in the helicopter and the uniform waving the flag it's too late to prepare him for the fact that he is about to see very many human beings die in front of him. The whole military structure has become castrated and bastardized.
>>72949455
God bless
PTSD doesn't exist. Anyone who claims to have it is a fucking pussy and welfare parasites. WWI and 2 veterans turned out fine, so did Korean war, and then comes Vietnam where a bunch of sissies who can't handle killing people start crying over nothing. It makes me sick.
>>72947130
Didn't Israeli soldiers literally shit their pants at the thought of them having to go back into Gaza?
>>72949505
>PTSD changes your actual body
There are even studies about how it affects your kids and offspring for generations to come. Basically hard wiring it into the genetics.
Think about it, slavs died in mass during ww2 and they are all assholes that are dead inside while Sweden have been at peace for 200 years and so every one here is a pussy instead. Its not only cultural, its genetic to.
>>72949472
>This is why I will always think WWI was worse than WWII.
Undoubtedly, in WW1 not only was there the war but there were terrible trench conditions, disease, infection, no battle relief, and no mobility. Supply lines were terrible, you'd never know if your next meal was going to arrive, and the equipment provided was terrible; 100,000s of Austrian soldiers froze to death while marching. Not to mention the commanders were terrible, they would march 10s of thousands of men into entrenched machine guns for nothing.
Imagine all of those things at once, i'd rather kill myself.
>>72949878
that explains germany
>>72942666
I heard a theory that the helicopter is responsible. Something along the lines of the helicopter removes clearly defined fronts by point insertion, this increases the amount of battle exposure that troops get, which increases the chances of PTSD.
>>72947329
true alot of people dont want to accept it (muh service) but thats basically the way it is even if they think they were just being patriotic theres no room for naive if you dont want to come out of a fight a brain damaged hasbeen and thats what happens to alot of america and elsewheres modern soldiers.
In the old days only true psycho and sociopaths could stomach and excel in battle the men that sign up today sign up for completely the wrong reasons if hes not there to kill he shouldn't be there at all
>>72948423
You dont know their culture and language, they wont show you their weaknesses.
>ptsd suicide epidemic is caused by the government trying to save money
Weve solved it.
Soldiers of the past were commonly raised since youth for combat/war. Many tribal people do this and warlords in Africa have an effective time raising youth in to violence.
If you are raised killing since 6 it becomes a norm, PTSD does not exist when its all you have ever known. When we have sheltered kids, at age 18 being recruited for/joining the military and suddenly being exposed to all this violence and death is when it becomes an issue, biologically speaking humans were meant to hunt and kill at a way younger age. Ironically enough its morally arguable that having humans recruited at a much younger age would be more ethical than the current system.
>>72949621
You could try joining the French Foreign Legion. I don't think they'll accept just anybody anymore, but you may not have to tell them your history.
>>72948539
Walking tall machine gun man
They spit on me in my homeland
>>72949618
Understandable. It's like if you spent months building a house and the person you sold it to decided to burn it to the ground.
PTSD always existed but now we know about it and how to treat it. Also warfare used to be less about killing and more about showing intent of killing. Most soldiers don't have impressive kills and most of their kills were either done on a tool like ships or drones or at the heat of the moment.
>>72949455
respect oldfag
War always caused ptsd. Just in past ages the vets got to be functioning alcoholics, hermits, they're crazy behaviour tolerated, or they were locked up in the nut house.
>>72948878
>Most people didn't die in war before the industrial revolution
I find this strange since there are plenty of historical records of plenty of deaths, the most prominent of which detailed by xenophon, a trusted greek historian, who detailed the deaths in various battles...
While morale was alot more central to battles than kills were (Specially given alot of deaths came from routing soldiers being hunted down by cavalry) I'm not sure I believe that there wasn't that much of a significant ammount of deaths, at least from what I've read.
>>72950347
I agree it's completely understandable. They fought so hard, lost so much, went through so much suffering to keep Al Qaeda out of Ramadi, then the Iraqi army just hand it over to ISIS
>>72950238
This tbhfam
>>72942666
no more sacking/pillaging. it's essential to wind down after a long campaign
>>72949846
(You) know all about self defecation first hand, and you're not even surounded by enemies, just flocks of immigrants..
>>72942666
Not enough money for those programs.
>>72942666
>modern warfare
>never seen the shakers from WW1
was it any better in the days of the cavalry?
>>72950410
omg anon, such a blast from the past....hnnnnnggggg
>>72950853
>tfw kike soldiers are afriad of death
>tfw itz coming
>tfw funding is going to stop
>tfw missile defence around their shit-country to nullify nuke capability
>tfw kikes are eventually btfo by a u.s. populace who are utterly sick of WHAT JEWS DO
Don't mind me, I'm merely an observer. W/ muh popcorn. Good luck surviving the internet, you kikes.
>>72942666
Bombs and explosions.
>>72950963
Patton was trained as a cavalry officer and straight up didn't believe in shell shock / PTSD until he got reprimanded for calling a soldier going through it a coward during WWII. Patton was a pretty observant guy, so this suggests he hadn't seen it in his cavalry days.
>>72949621
they'll be broken or become stronger for it
dumb boys will die or go mad
tough boys will weather the storm
crazy boys will find home on the battlefield
smart boys will have never left home
ITT: edgy underage faggots call out veterans for suffering from trauma
>>72951330
Weird boyz will become psykers.
>>72949846
Definately. Its not surprising.
One day you're over the fence and just sitting there. Your entire company is green.
And then an Arab pops out from the ground and begins fighting. Sometimes a man is taken. You win the firefight of course, but he is never found in one piece. This can happen at any moment.
You don't know when the Arab Child throwing rocks suddenly tosses a live grenade. What happens when you kill him and he only has empty hands as a corpse? You never know if the woman or man will pull a knife to try and stability you or blow up. Some are even pregnant women.
You might kill them before they even hurt you, but in the end, they are civilian corpses. Throwing grenades, thus leaving an empty handed corpse for the soldiers to see, destroys the ability to justify the killing, no matter what they did when they were alive.
Between this and hyper vigilance stemming from the insurgency, the ptsd is horribly common. However, the Israelis are one of only a few countries who still have military leadership/former soldiers at the helm of their government.
From their experiences in the war of attrition and other conflicts, they take steps to mitigate the emotional impact.
>they only send ground forces to battle when there is a mission (a set in stone endpoint) to accomplish. Ie tunnels or artillery or a base
>they rotate forces back to bases on the border for debrief before sending them home
>because of the defined victory point, their actions are celebrated, and they work towards the victory point, thus staving off the trauma from insurgency
>the majority of the Israeli population were apart of the military at some point. Troops coming home have massive backing from the civilian populace, many of whom have experience in battle
The UN and Arab countries get butthurt about it, but the Israeli leadership are doing something we should follow.
>>72942666
PTSD or shell shock has been documented in wars throughout history. Seeing someone get cut in half by a cannonball was just as traumatic in the 16 th century as it is now.
>>72951521
nigga i aint reading all that shit
>>72950963
Before WW1, war could actually be romantic. This is mainly due to how conflicts were settled in short exchanges on the battlefield instead of long, drawn out battles of attrition that modern warfare created. A few hours of fighting each day is less stressful than prolonged hours of shelling and gunfire which forces a soldier to endure it both through day and night with any limited breaks in between it. Before this, PTSD was very rare, though possible in some recorded cases. I forgot the name, but I remember one ancient Greek drama has a soldier who could be described as showing the symptoms of war trauma.
I would say the Russo-Japanese wars was one of the last wars where romantic conflicts were actually possible. WW1 was the turning point.
>>72951129
U.s populace is too busy btfo'ing itself from within,
Everybody are afraid of death, specially little shut in kids from america who write "tfw itz.." on pol and maintain an agoraphobic lifestyle in the comfort of their basment.
>>72943582
Another tough EOD tech that would not leave the FOB unless a company size unit was out there to protect vehicle while he sent the robot down to blow up the bomb. Basically a drone operator that did not get to go to Nevada.
>>72951521
the israelis try to avoid sending troops into battle because they are a declining power and lack to political will to sustain casualties anymore. compare the idf now to the motherfuckers who fought the arabs in the 1940's.
>>72942666
PTSD has been arround for ages
http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/weapons-and-tactics-change-ptsd-goes-back-millennia-002613
The reason why it has become so widespread may be two: raising awarness among military officials and doctors and of course social benefits one gets when diagnosed.
>>72945926
A buddy of me once dove for cover as a jackhammer went off. Also he was always nervous in my yard, it's sort of an exposed position and hundreds of troops could hide in the forest behind my house. Stuff like this happens. Kosovo fucked him up for a while, but after a couple of months he was back to normal.
>>72947802
First post best post
I think its more of the fact that America has psychopathic narcissists leaders in the military that treat those under them like shit. And I'm not referring to boot camp.
I know an American that was discouraged from joining when he overheard a military officer "jokingly" saying "who cares what they think?"
Referring to some low ranks.
>>72951783
The jews cannot survive the internet. Rage against this for your people as much as you like. History will prove us out.
Your time is over.
>>72951747
Space marines when
PTSD BTFO
For they shall know no fear
>>72943582
>>72947828
This desu
>>72952167
>Space marines when
Great question!
Space marines when we stop spending 30 billion dollars on leering, swarthy, hook-nosed KIKES!!!
We CAN HAVE NICE THINGS, we just need to jettison these weird people from e.europe with ugly noses and a weird business sense. LOL Did I say "weird business sense?" I meant to say, "genociding white folks."
But yeah, we can and will explore the universe. Bad news is that there is an infectious parasite in human form that we need to eradicate first.
Will you eradicate them and go to the stars? Or will you be a jewish faggot and let them continue to GAME YOUR PEOPLE?
>>72951259
>>72951747
we agree it seems to be linked to modern warfare.
I'd say the following: the difference is the use of machines and modern explosives and IED's and vietcong traps.
>>72942666
Part of it is resilience and it's something that is just now being seriously studied. Some people deal with the stress better than others; part of it is innate, part of it is mindset and training, morale is a huge factor. Vietnam had a much higher rate of ptsd than recent wars simply because of the draft, people that would have never been soldiers fighting a war they didn't believe in with little moral support. Needless to say, it is something modern commanders are looking at very closely.
>>72950244
Good song
>>72942666
Aside from all the stuff that's basically the same throughout history (war is hell in all time periods) I'm thinking the biggest thing with the modern battlefield is all the explosives.
Bombs, grenades, mortars, IEDs, RPGs, there are just sooo many explosives being used in so many different situations, and the blast affect typically kills in a small area and then shocks in a large area around it.
So that's a big contributing factor. Remember PTSD is a euphemism for 'shell shock' because even back in WWI doctors understood it was often associated with being in the shock radius around a detonating shell.
related:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSp8IyaKCs0
>>72952675
>>72952629
>>72952610
>>72951747
>>72951521
>>72951259
>/pol/ international consensus
>/thread/
>>72952135
>tfw you
>>72952539
The jewish plan is in full effect in europe. Leftism has dulled the mind of the goyim and given a false sense of weakness. With the creation of the EU unified army and this new authoritarian 250k per refugee rule, we're getting closer to being chained by the kikes...
I wish I could do something, but I'm just one person. I try to show friends the truth, but thats all I can do... I would even join a militia for western and white liberation but none has been created yet... the future seems bleak
>>72942666
Explosives and ranged weapons which means that they can die at any moment even when they cant see the enemy. That level of heightened fear never leaves them.
In the past if you couldnt see the enemy it meant you were safe.
>>72952866
t. Derailing Jew
>>72948364
>people who wear shoes inside of their homes
fucking retards reeeee
>>72950448
That was the thing. Shielded and later fully armored troops going head to head didn't cause many deaths.
It was like a big ruck. It was a massive shoving match. The major evidence that points to this is the extreme disparity between casualties between the winning and losing side.
The losing side was massacred during the rout. However, during combat itself, casualties even on the front lines were extremely low.
1-3% at most. However, during this massive ruck and shove one side takes the advantage. Perhaps they take a few Knights down on one side (most of those were fatigue and blunt trauma, rarely dying at this point). The troops exploit this weak point in the lines so the front line match up becomes less of a major 1 combatant vs another deal. At this point, there is a rout, and then the large casualties begin to come.
Cavalry was such an integral force for this reason. Being able to chase down a routed enemy, destroying his ability to make war again, is literally the raison d'etre for cavalry.
Then of course you get killing of wounded post battle, ovetseen by commanders of whayever fighting force you have. One side will be able to save its wounded. The losing side, sans the most important that could be ransomed by the enemy, counts them as dead.
In the days of hand to hand combat, armies did not waste their resources during a war on things that arent their own military. Numerous POW's and a concept of inhumane treatment took a long time to develop. Taking prisoners had to become lucritive before it became accepted or normal.
>>72942666
Because now it's not some guy in a uniform looking somewhat like your own shooting at you in a Red vs. Blue fight.
Now the little kid who hangs around for candy could also be letting his big brother know the best time to shoot you or the spot you slow down at on patrol for a nice IED.
>>72952866
jew extremely detected
>>72942666
as a man who has recently done a dissertation on combat motivation during the first world war, I can say that most cases of shellshock came down to:
A) an inability to release aggression upon the enemy: soldiers who were incapable of fighting their opponent, seeing or killing them often suffered greatermorale drops and mental health issues then those that remained active on the front. Soldiers that went raiding, killing and attacking successfully often had a greater quality of life then those that did not. Therefore, weapons such as artillery, gas and sometimes tanks often had a greater straining effect on men due to their inability to attack those weapons.
B)the consequence of physical stimulus such as shockwaves: shellshock can also be a physical side effect of rapid concussive force. In this case the individual often is mentally capable but suffers physical shaking and an inability to stay still. This is often attributed to the nervous system becoming "jolted" by concussive forces, however research has been slow in identifying the core root of this.
>>72947538
There were ancient battles were, despite tens of thousands of soldiers, only a hundred or so died. This is because tactics played a much bigger role. You would meet your adversary in some landscape and the challenge would be to set up your troops in a way that you had a topographical advantage. Sometimes you might see that you're at a disadvantage and just retreat. Other times in trying to get the advantage you would have small clashes. In situations where it was two phalanx armies, you would meet with shields and whoever was the weaker group would indeed just break formation and runaway. Sometimes an army would have advanced calvary and flank the opposing army. This would result in massive bloodshed.
>>72942666
Started with WW1 who honestly I think had the worst of it. When that war started they didnt think to rotate out the front lines at first so you had people in 24/ 7 shelling trench warfare for years. Top Kek....
It is just the constant never ending overload of your sensory and emotions. It isnt just the death and your friends getting killed - its the lack of sleep... you become a zombie.
Wars of the past had breaks where modern war does not.
>>72943078
This.
Man's war was killed when tercios died. After that the only semi-manly war was guerrilas as the guerrila.
The rest? Cowards and cucks paradise, if you do not engage into cqc it is a shit fling no a war.
>>72953188
Oh, putting that way I fully agree. Honestly just looking at confrontations like pike phallanx battles, there were barely any losses until one of the battle lines was broken. Of course it depends on the armies. Steppe armies employed what was basically a skirmishing army for morale attrition and rout killing contingent in one, and the mobility and killing potential of a horse archer army is what made them so feared.
Now, battles can even last days, sometimes weeks.
"War never changes" my ass, fallout. It's the reasons for war, the demographic that suffers and the underlying nature of humanity in our conflictuous nature that seems far from changing. Ultimately though, human self preservation always loom wherever dangers lie, and traumas, whenever it fails to protect the mind and body
>>72942666
spending more time in combat.
a ww1 vet spend like 10 days total in combat, a vietnam vet spent over 70 days in combat
>>72951521
a shekel for a good goy
>>72942666
Former 68W medic, 66H nurse here.
Grunts sent to fight with limited information, always on high alert. Three patrols, four patrols, five patrols, no action. Start to relax even a little bit. Almost killed on sixth patrol, buddies die, hand blown apart. Brain stores information="Relax even a little bit=danger."
Brain never relaxes again.
100 years ago, soldiers weren't used in that way. There was no "patrol sortie, then safe place" structure. They were always in danger. So, when they were out of action, they knew they were REALLY out of action.
The way grunts are used now is incredibly psychologically destructive.
>>72951897
You're mistaken. Israel has more military power now than they ever have, including a number of reserves and military ready population that dwarfs the Israel of old. They use their troops wisely.
The men of the 30's and 40's became the leaders of the country during the 50's, 60's, and 70's. The men of that Era have become the leaders of the country now.
Israel only became the dominant power starting in the late 70's, only solidifying in the early 90's and late 80's. Before that, they were under equipped in every war compared to their adversaries. They used Shermans up until the 70's, and sent them to battle against Soviet MBT's. They used old mirage based designs with outdated missile technology (if they carried missiles at all) against enemies flying mig 21s.
They're more powerful they have ever been currently. Their leaders were veterans of these old wars. They of course got lazy in 2006 in Lebanon because of their sudden power advantage, but the lessons were learned.
The Israelis know exactly how to use modern warfare against terrorism and insurgencies, but their main military power is based upon conventional conflicts possibly flaring up at the drop of a hat. They use airpower in COIN ops, they use artillery and standoff weaponry, and they only send in proper ground forces, not just armor, when it is necessary to do so instead of using infantrymen like a club.
Yeah it's /pol/, and yeah everyone hates the Jews, me included, but you have to give credit where credit is due.
I respect the israeli military and smart leadership. I will never hate them like i hate marxist jews. I will never hate marxist jews the same way the israelis do. The jewish schism is fascinating.
Lol @ everyone itt that hasn't been shot at AND never read classical literature.
Modern Warfare is incredibly intensive and stressful, consider World War 2 for instance. PTSD (or "combat fatigue") rates were much higher in US Marines serving in the Pacific than US forces fighting in North Africa or Europe. This was because in the Pacific it was just constant stress, you could never relax.
Psychologically this is very damaging to the average person.
My cousin served in Afghanistan and, although he didn't get full blown PTSD he did get a lot more nervous. I spoke to him about it once and he said it was very strange, you're only ever safe inside the base or camp (and even then he said they were often repeatedly attacked with RPGs at night).
>>72944072
Actually it was well documented. However contrary to popular belief battles were extremely rare in the Middle Ages. If you were a knight who were in five battles you were already legendary tier.
Sure conflicts might go on forever but battles were rare, a lot of ransacking, burning down shit etc. but not full blown battles.
Most of the knights who actually went to battles and wrote about it mentioned that they had problems sleeping even decades after it.
And as a knight what you mostly saw the brutal killing of the peasants while knights often took each other for ransom and you barely had a chance to get hurt with a good armour. But peasants died left and right, and in horrible brutal ways.
>>72945602
Well WW1 was an absolute shithole. Medieval times was at least tame in terms of the battle arenas, ww1 was hell. You'd sit in trenches in the rain for months and the water wood flood the trench floors. You'd be ankle deep in water for weeks with no dry clothes and when someone died they'd have to let them sit in the cramped pathways because there was no where to put them. On top of that you have to be crouched most of the time in fear of getting shot and pray to God you dont get got by a rogue mortar shell. Overall you were sitting in shit, piss, decomposing corpses, and flood water lying on your back while your feet start to rot and shells fly over your head while your friends brains are on the wall right next to you. WW1 was completely fucked.
>>72942666
>join military because you believe it's the right thing
>end up being asked to kill teenagers in a desert to protect your country
>watch your friends die to IEDs
>when your term is over you come home, can't find a job, and have to watch the continued degeneration of the culture you sacrificed for
>>72955252
Even one battle was enough to fuck you up for life.
>>72947763
It makes sense. Balance out your experiences of the most horrible things in life with some of the most beautiful and relaxing.
Jesus christ, guys. this shit isn't rocket science.
In past wars, we were constantly rotated out. During the Great War, a british infantry battalion was cycled almost monthly between rear resting areas and the front, and even at the front, that battalion would rotate different companies within its sector. GHQ determined that a soldier could spend 6 months at the front before succumbing to "battle fatigue" and needed to medically evacuated. This policy continued into WW2 and Korea.
And on top of the that the average 20th century veteran of the World Wars actually saw very little combat compared to his successors because he tended to get killed or grievously wounded in his first battle (for example, my own unit suffered enough casualties to raise it to full strength 5 times over in WW2)
Now contrast this with modern deployments:. While we got 2-3 weeks off half-way into a tour, the American grunts who had been in the same FOB for a year and a half were not being rotated out. That's how American leadership got around the shortage of manpower in Iraq and Afghanistan: Stop-loss measures and longer tours for everyone with shorter breaks in between each rotation.
Constant, prolonged exposure to danger, that's all PTSD is. A survival mechanism for the body to adapt to dangerous situations. We're living longer and surviving longer than ever before and it's just another type of scar.
>Be rotated out after 9 months of leading a bunch of Uzbeks and Hazaris in pickups
>come home for 6 months
>Go back to Helmand, same burnt out platoon guarding the same FOB. One dude offed himself in a shitter the day before we showed up.
>What the fuck are you all still doing here.jpg
>>72951937
My Dad was in Kosovo, never talks about it but he hates walking next to high banks and ledges. I assume it's prime ambush territory
>>72942666
They Just started keeping track of the numbers of people Who have ptsd, it isnt very different to the ww1 era and even earlier than that.
>>72947763
as far as I read, a lot of the movements they used in the tea ceremony and flower arrangement were mimicking the moves of combat. so they basically practiced battle in a half meditative relaxed state, even in peace time.
>>72942666
The great war had shit tonnes of cunts with "shell shock", but instead of caring for them, they called them cowards and shot them.
it was always there you fucking idiot
in the world wars it was called shell shock
>>72942666
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4irXQhgMqg
PTSD Vietnam!
>>72943223
Indeed.
>>72942666
Higher percentage of people who DON'T serve in the military. In the past if there was a war, every man took up arms, so if they had PTSD, it wasn't as noticed because they were all mentally fucked and they just assumed that's how men were.
It's an awareness thing more than anything.
>>72953627
Beyond that, there were set victory conditions, clear enemies to fight, and a lack of single side brutality and quarter.
Modern combat is barely combat as we used to know it. Decades long insurgencies are a cesspool combining everything horrible about war, everything about war that emotionally damages people, but leaves out everything positive that mitigated the damage. There was glory, honor, heroism, and victory.
An insurgency wins if it simply refuses to lose. There can be one man left of an insurgency and have it still continue indefinitely.
The days of combat seen by a modern soldier have grown exponentially. Just getting cut down by a booby trap, a mine, or an IED does not count in the statistics. There were times in Iraq where you would take fire 2-3 times a week, but would encounter booby traps and IEDs every day, sometimes multiple times in a day. Tactics have been slow to develop against it.
It doesn't matter if you win every battle, it doesn't matter if you have driven the enemy away every time you have seen him, and it certainly, with the extreme emotional damage that comes with it, does not matter how many you kill. Their attrition rate does not matter, and even when their countries are paved in their dead, you will still hit an IED at random.
Modern combat is fucked. Insurgencies are even more fucked. There may be no way to beat insurgencies under the rules of modern combat.
>>72947763
>>72948204
>>72948364
>>72955446
>>72955786
All of those things became popular after samurai were done killing each other. Outside of the warring states period, Japan was actually not a violent place, at least not on a large scale. Once the Tokugawa shogunate was in place (which is when most of the tea ceremony and such started getting big) warfare had ceased, and samurai had to find other things to busy themselves with.
>>72942666
It's the sensation you get when you leave your basement, except this time it's more horrifying
>>72949878
Filthy Polska slav here, second gen. I can confirm that I am an alcoholic, chain-smoking sociopath.
>>72956202
My dad was In nam, his best mate was in a blues, metal band. It was 1971, right around the time that stuff was coming out. His mate was from invercargill, massive stoner.
Was thinking about this recently, I think it's because men these days have much easier lives. The average recruit from 1970-2000 is a lot softer than the men of the previous centuries who had very difficult lives. The same is true for women. There's no way in hell your grandmother in her 20s would feel unsafe or traumatized by a group of men aggressively catcalling her. Yet today, it warrants therapy.
>>72956488
The Tokugawa period saw the transformation of samurais becoming more bureaucrat than warrior. The only factor that stopped this full transformation was the training, discipline, and tradition that still existed with them.
PTSD diagnosed /pol/lack here. 2 tours in Iraq and part of the surge, and 1 tour in Afghanistan. First tour was mellow, and only had a couple bad moments, but Holy fuck when I went during the surge, we were fighting those animals nearly every day. Constant sniper fire and rocket attacks. We had a lot of people die.
In Afghanistan, it was nearly nothing but IEDS. EVERY FUCKING WEEK IEDS.
I don't really suffer from PTSD except for my sleep. I don't know why, but some nights I just can't sleep, but other than that, I'm functioning fine and working on getting my NP license. About once a week, sleeping is hard, and I usually take sleeping aids to fix it.
>>72942841
Infantry vet here. This tbqh
I was in a pretty rough car crash and after 5 years I still get a mini heart attack and clench my asscheeks if I see a car sneaking infront.
>>72951747
A little late to reply, but it was Achilles in Homer's odyssey.
There was actually an incredible book about that called Achilles in Vietnam. Achilles was basically PTSD incarnate, having gone through nearly everything imaginable that causes ptsd.
>>72945329
>>72944965
>>72944261
>>72945420
>>72945763
Actually, battlefield casualties were very low on the ancient and medieval battlefields, unless one side broke and was routed. Most winning sides suffered 3% casualties at most on battlefields where every single man was a combatant who was expected to fight directly.
Vastly improved logistical capabilities (ability to quickly shift soldiers around) had completely changed combat. In the Vietnam Era something like 20-30% of soldiers deployed to the region saw actual combat where as now it is like 70-80%. Not fighting conventional wars also contributes to this (occupations with no Frontline). That means non combat arms soldiers are taking a shit ton more fire then they would in wars like world war 2 (ex. Truck drivers).
>>72957187
I go into a panic attack when I hear cars backfire or fireworks go off on days that aren't the 4th of July. I'm mentally prepared for the noise on the 4th but I lose my shit when there's a sudden explosion sound on any other day. I mean my whole body feels cold my heart is racing and I'm sweating like crazy and I feel lightheaded and like I'm going to pass out.
>>72952931
És de onde?
https://youtu.be/b3LdMAqUMnM
thread theme, killer choon
>>72942666
WWI made wafare a miserable thing, defying all kinds of honour codes and rightfulness principles - from then on, it's only been a landslide.
I mean, the last big movie was trying to convince people a Sniper is an honourable fighter and a hero. Someone trying to hit people a 1000 yards away. I mean c'mon.
And let's not even start on bombings drones and chemwarfare. Vicious and ethic-free fighting produces traumatized individuals
