What do you think really happened with Jesus Christ? How did this man not only become the most philisophically influential man in history, but inspire a totally fantastical myth around his existence? Was he a product of superstition which had essentially around since the stoneage days, as in, was he just a random dude who was the product of a mythology that he happened to fit the bill for, and thus was programmed into the "ideal" man? What does he represent in human evolution and conciousness. Assuming all the magic and god elements are without validation, how was he able to inspire such a powerful myth which transcends humanity, or did the myth exist before him? What do you think this wishful thinking represents?
One of many religious cult prophets at the time.
His followers put down a lot of legwork, his story stuck and spread around Rome.
Later on elites used it as a means of unification (Constantine) and then codified the religion into an entirely different beast than whatever it was he originally preached.
He probably did exist, but I doubt his death. I think that story came way later.
Basically, there was nothing specially about him beyond the fact that it's his story that stuck around, and not one of any other cult following at the time.
People buy into spiritual matters incredibly easily, even today with the massive amount of information that exists. Just look at the success of horoscope and other new age bullshit.
TL;DR Guy starts cult in Judaism, few centuries later it gets edited and transformed as a means of Roman control, because it's a religion and not based on secular knowledge and justification it sticks around when everything else had not
>>72506785
Arguably one of the few revolutionaries who succeeded
>>72506785
The """myth""" that existed before him was called judaism
all he did was fulfill what the prophecies said would happen. that's what makes him special, from a historical standpoint
>>72507145
>cult prophets
I don't understand this. Where does his prophecies come from. Was he a liar who was manipulating people?
The only "supernatural" or "religious experience" i've ever had is on psychadelic drugs (i've moved passed them.) But I don't understand where in the human psyche being a "prophet" comes from. Can someone explain this?
>>72507323
>Where does his prophecies come from.
The old testament
>>72506785
He probably never existed. The name Jesus was very common. They probably crucified 2 guys named Jesus every week. It's all bullshit, all a myth. The Virgin Mary... you gotta be kidding me. Jesus flying up to heaven and no witnesses described the actual moment he went into heaven?
The whole story exists to separate the retards from the normal people. Wearing a cross is simply an identifier to help normal people deal with retards effectively.
He is the son of our Lord, he succeeded in that affect. The miracles he performed are unmatched by modern day standards.
Literally people can't believe he did the things he did, that's why it's a religion and not accepted as absolute fact. For those who witnessed his actions, the proof is in the pudding.
Jesus is the son of God and we all had best start praying hard
>>72507365
So this is what I dont understand
>>72507284
Are prophecies essentially wishful thinking on human behavior which basically everyone is too fucked up themseleves to actually do and eventually an exceptional person just realizes they can achieve whatever is being expected of this leadership position?
idk man
it makes more sense to me that he really was the fulfillment of old hebrew prophecies and that god would be the most influential man in history.
and you can't understand the jews without reading the gospels.
>>72506785
Christ is God. You can be mad that people believe that all you want.
>>72507473
From an atheist standpoint, pretty much
>>72507537
>>72507536
>>72507527
I just dont understand the culture. How is it that "prophecies" and miracles were so prevelent in this age? I was not raised religious, but I am open to the possiblity of god acting in this way that defies the laws of reality, but i have not experienced this in any form in my own life other than through psychadlic drugs, which I am now no longer a fan of. (i dont even drink or smoke weed anymore.) I just dont understand, even if, theoretically god existed, why he has been mostly absent from my life.
He was fabricated. They made him a pacifist so they could prevent rebellions.. and they could revise their book.
>>72507729
Superstition has existed forever. God never directly intervenes in physical life anymore so that's probably why you feel he's absent
>>72507874
Who. The jews? Do you think they are actually effective leaders by doing this?
>>72507926
A group of some sort, way back when. the Brotherhood of the Snake. The jews were tricked too, none of it is real.. at least, not how they say it is. a lot of it is based off of other religions or events, but the stories themselves are fabricated or twisted
>>72508033
source on the brotherhood of the snake?
So you think that evil is winning? Or simply that the most adapt and control are winning. If they are the most efficient rulers wouldnt that ultimatley make them good guys?
>>72507323
Well you should never discount that he could have been lying and in it for the lulz, it has happened before and will happen again, see Muhammed. But I don't think that was his prerogative. If I remember correctly his was from the tribe of Rabbis, so he probably had a good understanding of the judism. He took what he knew through that faith and made his own interpretation on what human spirituality and relation with God is. He preached it and people liked it and followed him. It was really a response to Roman rule than anything else. It's a cult, but don't think I mean that negatively, plenty of harmless cults. We just hear about the ones that get their followers suicided or ATF'd. Really, it was a meme. Centuries later his story is totally altered to make it an organized religion. That was completely done by liars and manipulators, as a means of control/power/culture propagation. So what we know of what he preached and what he actually preached are entirely different things. He may have never even claimed divinity or being the son of God, and I have reasons to suspect he never actually did, that was added later. Much like his "virgin birth" under a sign from a star.
Also I'm sure he mediated and fasted like it says in the bible. That can easily cause you to experience what a person in antiquity would consider divine inspiration (hallucination.)
Again though, I don't think Jesus himself was lying and manipulating, I think he was passing on what he genuinely considered to be spiritual truth. Only later does it get corrupted. But he very well could have been lying.
>>72508090
This is what I dont get - in the end, divine inspiration always seems to be attributed to some sort of hallucination caused by one sort of sense deprivation or another.
If this is the case, how is using psychadleic drugs to achieve hallucinations not a valid form of spirituality? I just dont get it.
>>72508237
some people would argue that it is a valid form of spirituality
>>72508342
But this opens up an entirelry new argument. I was pretty addicted to pot for a long time because it became my only connection to "the divine." For a long time I thought i wanted to shape my life in a way that would allow me to continue usage indeffinatley. Ultimatley i felt i was spending all my time observing the unobtainable, which was not productive.Now I have quit and feel it is a much better use of my time to be sober and essentially free from any sort of spiritual encounters. What does this say about society and the function of "spirituality?"
>>72507415
also
the bible says that when jesus died there was an earthquake
and also later on dead people got up and walked around and talked to people
no historical record for any of it
and in the old testament god fucking stops the sun in the sky for a whole day to give joshua enough time to win a battle
lol at christians
>>72508237
>how is using psychadleic drugs to achieve hallucinations not a valid form of spirituality
Same way using training wheels isn't like being able to actually ride a bike.
>>72507729
I haven't experienced the northern lights either. I still believe they occur.
>>72508237
>>72508512
Well I'm an atheist. I don't think there's a divine or spiritual reality. Actually I have a quasispirtual belief that the universe is a conscious thing but not in any sense of commonly understood theology and belief in a "God." I think those feelings are nothing more than emotions and byproducts of human consciousness and limited understanding of natural phenomenon. What you experienced because of the effects of chemicals on your brain is just chemicals on your brain. Some people can get "psych" themselves up so much about faith that they experience phenomenon that they believe to be spiritual that in reality is nothing more than a trance state and the placebo effect. Their mind literally makes it real. They just don't understand its from an internal source, not an external one.
As regards to spirituality and society, 99.99% I would say it's either ignorance, a scam, or misrepresentation of fact.
>>72506785
>What do you think really happened with Jesus Christ? How did this man not only become the most philisophically influential man in history, but inspire a totally fantastical myth around his existence?
Occam's razor: because God is real.
>Was he a product of superstition which had essentially around since the stoneage days, as in, was he just a random dude who was the product of a mythology that he happened to fit the bill for, and thus was programmed into the "ideal" man?
There is no randomnes.
Predestination, cause and effect.
>What does he represent in human evolution and conciousness.
The next step.
>Assuming all the magic and god elements are without validation, how was he able to inspire such a powerful myth which transcends humanity, or did the myth exist before him? What do you think this wishful thinking represents?
Assuming all of it is false IS wishfull thinking.
>>72507415
>He probably never existed
You--->trashbin
>>72509330
Jesus is a lie.
God never hated gays, He made them gay.
No, your sexuality isn't evil. Nor you have to put yourself at the mercy of your enemies for that matter like jesus suggests.
Proof.
http://pastebin.com/Yj53GrxN
>>72509414
>Jesus is a lie.
That sentence is a lie
>God never hated gays
That's true. He Hate Homosexuality like all sins. And yes, he made gays gays like he made kids with down syndrome kids with down syndrome.
>No, your sexuality isn't evil.
That's also true. Your hunger isn't evil too. But gluttony and fucking with everyone is a sin therefore it is evil.
>>72509414
>Jesus is a lie.
I didn't knew Jesus was made out of cake.
>God never hated gays, He made them gay.
Implying homosexuality is inborn. And even if that was true, God sets limits to heterosexuality. This obviously doesn't mean he hates heterosexuals.
>No, your sexuality isn't evil.
That's right, it's more of an abomination.
>Nor you have to put yourself at the mercy of your enemies for that matter like jesus suggests.
He doesn't Your anger is clouding your judgement.
>Proof.
>http://pastebin.com/Yj53GrxN
I am not clicking random links on 4chan.
All in all, you sound very gay and butthurt.
>>72508821
Based on photographic evidence probably
>>72508681
No, it's telling me I have to ride a bycicle when I have a car.
>>72506785
>How did this man not only become the most philisophically influential man in history, but inspire a totally fantastical myth around his existence?
He's the son of god.
>>72510659
>>72509992
>>72509831
Still, you have to prove to me that god exists the same way Jesus performed miracles and was required to convince his followers.
>>72509370
I made a gif a few days ago for this exact comment
oc donut steel
>>72510734
We don't. Of course, like Paul said, our faith without Resurrection and all that things would be empty but it is still a faith. Faith does not require proofs, if we had any besides metaphysicals and those mircels and revelations acepted by Church that woldn't by faith. That would be knowledge.
>>72506785
"man"
He is God in human flesh.
>>72506785
Here's an easy way to wrap our head about it. He was a Zoroastrian Trump in his own times. The people loved him more than the establishment. He wanted to make the middle east great again.
>>72511039
You don't accept that science has been able to, in time eventually explain all superstitions?
>>72511161
You can make science explain everything. Most science is theory and no more proven than voodoo and the like. I know in the post-modern era to most people science > all but there are a lot of us still left who place our faith in God before the word of man.
>>72511228
"he said, while typing into his magic voodoo box."
>>72506785
There were multiple attempts at the messiah meme. Jewish Kabbalists pretending to be Persian Zoroastrian magicians put the bug in Mary and Joseph's ear. Mary was raped by Roman soldiers.
>>72510734
nobody on earth can prove to you god exists the way jesus proved to his followers he was god
>>72511457
how am I suppose to believe it then. What is advantageous about believing it happened? What else should I believe without proof?
>>72507729
God has been absent from your life because Life is suffering. This is why the illusion of "self" exists. So that you can feel suffering related to your perceived self image.
God, as the entirety of existence, is incapable of suffering, so he created Life so he could experience suffering through us.
That is what is meant when it is said that god is always with you. "He" is with you to experience your suffering, for what you could best understand as enjoyment. Not in a schadenfreude sense, but in the sense of a new and unfamiliar experience.
>>72510488
It's second-hand testimony at best either way.
The photos could be fake, just like virtually anything in this world could be a deception. What you qualify as evidence isn't an absolute standard of objectivity.
>>72510633
You are obviously wrong.
Suffering through self-denying practices -> learning to ride a bycicle.
Popping some tabs or munching on some shrooms -> training weels
The analogy is so simple and fitting that I suspect you are either trolling or just plain dumb.
>>72511513
>how am I suppose to believe it then
This is why it's called faith, not knowledge. you don't have to have faith, nobody is forcing you to
>>72511514
>God, as the entirety of existence, is incapable of suffering, so he created Life so he could experience suffering through us.
why?
what knowledge is to be gained? Or is anything to be gained. If god needs to gain something he is not absolute.
>>72511513
Faith has it's own rewards. Those of true faith don't need direct proof. That's why it's called faith, my friend.
What is the benefit? There's a certain serenity that comes with faith. Look at the simple lives that monks and the like need. With no more than their faith and bare necessities they are probably happier in life that most will ever be.
>>72511665
and the like have* in life than*
still waking up
>>72511562
>>72511591
my point is this. I dont think drugs bring you any greater understanding of truth or reality the same way i dont think faith does.
>>72511606
What would the universe do with knowledge?
I don't know what you're getting at with absoluteness and gaining. That's thinking from a self-centric perspective. God has no self.
>>72510734
No I don't.
It would be pointless to try anyway.
For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible
>>72511766
yeah, just believing in something doesn't make you smarter. i don't think you actually have a point, the thread strayed off into too many paths
>>72511804
what are you trying to describe as god? It sounds like you are describing nothingness.
>>72506785
>How did this man not only become the most philisophically influential man in history, but inspire a totally fantastical myth around his existence?
Have you considered the possibility that it could have been real?
>>72511766
Drugs help you understand yourself, which is the lens through which you view reality. So it's the first step on the path, though that's not to say drugs are necessary or praise them.
>>72511903
>i don't think you actually have a point, the thread strayed off into too many paths
I didnt have that point when the thread started. This is the conclusion i've drawn after the discussion. This thread was very useful. 4chan is useful. Thank you to all the intellegence that went into creating this technology to allow this sort of discourse.
>>72511930
That's exactly it, God is the space in which the universe exists. So god is all things, and no-thing.
>>72511961
yes, but i dont have reason to believe it. seriously, no one has given me a reason to have faith other than "it will give you comfort." certainly lying to yourself might do that.
>>72512060
thats a contridction i.e. not possible. Sounds like double think to me.
>>72506785
First post best post.
Very funny that even Early (if not earliest) Christian doctrine is formed around a guy who claimed to have a higher authority than apostles because "He had seen Jesus in his dreams/visions thus he is taking direct orders from him"
If Islam is called Mohammedanism thna Christianity should be called Paulism
>>72506785
He died for my sins.
>>72512067
because if it is real, it fundamentally changes your purpose and outlook on life
>>72512006
sounds like someone whose actually done drugs.
>>72512191
>if
I can accept that. Certainly I dont know everything. I just dont think the people 2000 years ago knew everything either. I think it all develops over time.
>>72512139
[checks flag]
Crusade soon.
>>72506785
He probably did not even exist as a historical person. As with many God figures, he started as a story and got historicized.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUYRoYl7i6U
>>72511961
His actions and feats contradict observable reality. Far more likely that those who wrote about him (centuries after his purported death) were either mistaken or deceptive.
>>72511766
The problem is that using psychedelics has the disadvantage of the possibility that you overestimate your own capabilities.This leads to a misinterpretation of the results.
Like using training wheels and thinking you can actually ride a bike.
Like not knowing the real value of money because you grew up as a rich kid and never had to work for anything.
>>72512197
Not really. I tried LSD once, but I was on SSRI's(never take those,) so the effect was very limited. Helped me think better, probably something to do with the autism.
>>72512287
inb4 Josephus.
One of many forgeries by Christians. Would a devout Jew really say "Truly he is the Messiah!"
Nope.
>>72506785
>0 wiritings about him by Romans when he was alive
he didn't even exist, st. paul is responsible for today's "christianity". and he was a jew """converted""" to christianity. sand religions are jewish memes and you should avoid them
>>72512287
What a coincidence that your justification for use of inductive reasoning is viciously circular and invalid.
All I know is if God is real he is a fucking cock sucker and he is not here with us.
>>72512365
>atheists think anybody gives a shit about their hour long youtube videos of nobodies talking to a 20 person audience
>he thinks his opinion matters so much he literally posted twice
wew
>>72512293
>Like not knowing the real value of money because you grew up as a rich kid and never had to work for anything.
this is a good point. In the end i stopped using drugs because I didnt feel I was truly getting anywhere.
Anyways, i am at a disadvantage because I was not raised religious? I went seeking the most acessable route, (drugs) and now im moving on, but I still feel extremely far from being able to accept any organized religion, though it is incredibly appealing (mostly christianity, simply because I find it the most impressive)
>>72512376
Soon.
>>72512470
reminder that crusades were sad memes. also i don't even belong to sandreligion #3. all sand religions are shit, only sandreligion #1 is legit and it belongs to sandmerchants
>>72512451
sitting in your room getting high isn't going to make you religious
organized religion is a scam anyway, you just have to truly accept jesus as your lord and savior. don't listen to catholics, they aren't christian
>>72512451
Mushrooms and such helped make me more spiritual too, and I do not touch that anymore as is with you it seems. I was not raised religious either. You do not need acceptance, nor a physical church, nor a formal religion. If you think there is more to life than we can see just read up on philosophy both of the east and the west, read whatever religious texts seem interesting to you. Just don't try to force anything upon yourself. It may sound cliche but seek and you will find. Whatever conclusions you come to are the right ones for you personally. God lives in every man with his body as the temple. That's the great thing about spirituality--no one can tell you what to believe but yourself.
>>72512569
Even sandreligion #1 is derivative
>>72512451
You dont need to accept anything except god. Not even Jesus, though accepting Jesus will help you get over personal hangups if that's what you need.
>>72512598
>accept jesus
you lost me. Why should I listen to you? What authority do you have?
Multiple people written into one story. One of them was named Jesus.
>>72512710
>>72512695
Just want to thank you guys. This thread has been very helpful and positive for me.
>>72512285
>>72512470
Kek, I love you LARPers. Thinking you earn good christian boy points by posting deus vult in such threads
>>72512720
nothing, just a suggestion. you seem underage, or a redditor. you should knock it off
>>72512792
Not a problem brother. We look out for our own.
>>72512699
well, yeah
>>72512831
i just cant take you seriously when you talk down to me like this.
>>72512880
Grow thicker skin. You're here to learn, no?
>>72512798
Yeah, ISIS are larpers too, right?
>>72507145
>Later on elites used it as a means of unification (Constantine)
Constantine thought of himself the 13th Apostle, initially co-opting the faith as you said. Later however, he realized what he had done and the mystery of faith in Christ.
>>72507415
Your country weeps for you. After the religious and civil wars of your land, you write that. You have failed many.
>>72507431
4chan.org is the last place for theological discussion but fear not the words of immature anonymous people on the Internet whom want to infect you with their own undiscovered fears and irrelevance.
>>72512880
>posts on 4chan
>demands authority
>then demands a hugbox
You really do sound like a ledditor he's not making that up at all
>>72506785
Please go back to /r/almostredpilledbutstillanatheist you fucking retard.
>>72511457
>jesus proved to his followers he was god
he did? when and how?
>>72512994
Except ISIS talks the walk rather than posting pictures of mohammad or jihadists. You won't do shit, one thing I admire about radical muslims is that they walk the walk. Many leave europe et al to die for their causes in syria-iraq afganistan etc
Christians are not like that. They rather not buy a plane ticket, join some Assyrian Christian militia and defend Christendom. They put their comforts above their religion or maybe western wealth made them soft.
Thats the only and only thing I like about the radicals tbhonest. I hate their ideology but at least they walk the walk. Same with Kurds or leftists who also go and fight. I can't say the same for Christians, always always excuse
>I'm not old yet
>Pope has not said anything
>Assyrians are not true christians
bla bla bla.
I'm sure you pat yourself on the back for fighting the good fight. Jesus is proud of your fedora tipping deus vulting posts .
anyways off to eating
He Jewed everybody out of their pocket money with promises of healing and blessings from God.
>>72513096
talks the walk
kek this is what happens when english is not your 2nd but 3rd language(half kurdish)
anyways g2g just a minor laugh.
>>72513096
If there was a real christian movement like the Islamic State, many many of us would be over there, trust me. Lack of capital does not mean a lack of conviction.
>>72513093
Why are american shitposts always so low quality
It's a marvel, really
>>72512451
>Anyways, i am at a disadvantage because I was not raised religious?
No. I wasn't. I think it is actually better that way.
You have the advantage of knowing both sides of the coin.
> went seeking the most acessable route, (drugs) and now im moving on, but I still feel extremely far from being able to accept any organized religion, though it is incredibly appealing (mostly christianity, simply because I find it the most impressive)
It is a paradox, you belief because it's true and it's true because you belief.
Part of it is accepting certain things you don't understand or agree with to humble yourself and destroy your ego.
From a purely materialistic point of view, it doesn't even matter wich tradition you take. Certain actions will have certain results.
There is no easy answer. If you become Christian, you will have to pick up your cross.
You WILL suffer.
>>72513194
Kys European brazil.
>>72512139
You demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of Saul and his conversion as much as you do false prophet worshipping in your cursed practices.
>>72513177
>real christian movement like the Islamic State
We are commanded not to do so yet those that speak like this:
>>72513096
>one thing I admire about radical muslims
... may usher in an era of termination for the threat to peace all of the three main religions seek to bring to their people.
>>72513622
I know my friend. Patience in all things, the Lord rewards those who wait.
