http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2016/04/donald_trump_s_foreign_policy_speech_was_an_incoherent_mess.html
>I didn’t think it possible, but Donald Trump’s “major foreign policy address” on Wednesday—a written speech, which he read off a teleprompter—was even more incoherent than his impromptu ramblings of the past several months. In fact, it may stand as the most senseless, self-contradicting foreign policy speech by any major party’s presidential nominee in modern history.
>For example, he said that, because of President Obama’s policies, our friends and allies feel they can no longer depend on us—then said that a Trump administration would quit NATO and abandon our allies in Asia entirely unless they started spending more on defense.
>He said that his No. 1 national-security goal would be to defeat ISIS—then said that he would work with other nations to do so only if they “appreciate what we’ve done for them,” because for us to be good to them, “they also have to be good to us.” (There’s something childish, even narcissistic, about this demand, which he recited in the tone of a desperately firm parent.)
>He said, as he has many times, that our trade deficit has severely weakened America and strengthened China—then said that we have enormous economic leverage over China and that we should use it to get China to rein in North Korea.
>He said we should not help any country that isn’t our friend—then proposed easing tensions with Russia. (It’s possible to hold one view or the other, but not both.)
>He said he would strengthen America’s economy in order to shrink the deficit—then said he would use the extra wealth to boost jobs, then said he would use it to increase the military budget, without the slightest recognition of possible trade-offs or the need to set priorities.
>>72356795
Everything Trump said was true.
>>72356795
>Drumpf
what the hell is wrong with you democrats? i thought you were pro-immigration? making fun of an immigrants last name is pretty fucking low if you ask me.
>>72356795
>Then there are the statements, many of them reprised from debates and campaign speeches, that are simply untrue. He claimed that Iran has violated the nuclear agreement, when in fact it’s abided by the terms. He added that, because of the deal, Iran has become “a great, great power”—which must come as news to Iran’s leaders, who are frustrated that, despite the lifting of sanctions, they still can’t get much trade going with the West. He said Obama has “snubbed” Israel, when in fact many Israeli military and intelligence officers credit Obama with providing more security assistance than any recent president.
>Trump added that Obama has let our nuclear arsenal atrophy, when in fact the Pentagon is spending $20 billion a year to maintain and modernize it. He said Obama’s proposed defense budget for next year (which, by the way, amounts to $608 billion) is 25 percent smaller than his budget for 2011—when, in fact, it’s larger. He said that, since 1991, the active-duty U.S. Army has shrunk from 2 million troops to 1.3 million, that the Air Force is one-third smaller, and that the Navy’s force of ships has declined from 500 to 272—which may sound alarming, until you consider (which Trump hasn’t) that the Cold War ended in 1991: It would be strange if the military hadn’t shrunk since then.
>>72356969
>And there were the bombastic pronouncements with no basis whatsoever. “The world is more dangerous than it has ever been.” (Think about that claim for one minute, and you’ll see how absurd it is.) About ISIS, he said, “They’re going to be gone if I’m elected president, and they’ll be gone very, very quickly.” (What does this mean? Is he going to scowl at them? Nuke them?) “No one knows how to reduce debt, but I do.” (One way he reduced debt in the private sector was to buy debt-ridden companies, then abandon the creditors or offer them dimes on the dollar or nothing. International debt doesn’t work this way.) He also said, as he has before, that he opposed the Iraq war because it would destabilize the Middle East—when, in fact, he supported the invasion not long before it took place.
>Finally, he lent credence to the suspicion that he’s never read a history book. In what a cynic might interpret as an act of speechwriter’s sabotage, he embraced the tag “America First,” going so far as to say it will be “the overriding theme” of his foreign policy. He doesn’t seem to realize that this was the slogan of Charles Lindbergh—in his 1940 campaign against President Franklin D. Roosevelt—to remain neutral and isolationist during World War II. Is Lindbergh Trump’s witting role model?
>This was, I repeat, a prepared speech, not some rambling remarks by a candidate in over his head. I don’t know who wrote it, but it seems to confirm rumors that no prominent Republican national-security advisers are assisting Trump’s campaign. Clearly this is the speech of an unserious man who hasn’t read up on the issues or thought through his own instincts. The dangerous thing is not so much that he knows nothing about foreign policy; it’s that he doesn’t know just how much he doesn’t know.
>Trump criss-crossing and contradicting himself within one speech
Color me surprised
>>72356795
>Slate
Just kill yourself now faggot
>>72356795
>>72356969
>>72357053
You can tell this guy wants the Don's D. That's the thing about the anti-Trump/#nevertrump crowd, they're obsessed with him.
They'll turn around eventually, and Trump will forgive them since he just wants to make America great again. It's not a problem.
>>72356795
I was waiting for some shill to link the Slate article and pretend it matters. You guys never fail.
>>72357175
Except he didn't. Trying listening to him and not the media. currently 7% of Americans believe the media..
You must be a fucking Jew
>>72356795
>slate
>>72357189
>It's biased media even if the transcript is right there and why what he said is retarded
>>72357053
FDR was an awful president so what exactly is the point being made here?
>>72357250
Considering that he can't form original thought on Trump and only can parrot what he reads on the internet, I would bet that he is a mentally handicapped faggot who does indeed want Don's D.
>>72356795
>slate
>kaplan
>>72357379
>The media is bias!
Never mind the fact that he has clearly said these things that contradict each other and any person who listens to him can surmise why he is full of shit
Try harder. I swear anytime you see a snippet of a trump speech or interview there's always the one or two retards who post "YEAH BUT (insert news organization here) IS THE ONE POSTING IT AND THEYRE BIASED SO THAT MEANS ITS FALSE" when it's literally him fucking talking with no bias spin put on it. The media doesn't need to try with Trump, he digs his own grave.
>>72357445
The article is completely false and intentionally misinterprets what Trump said, and reframes the context of quotes in order to pretend that Trump said something that he didn't. Standard liberal tactics, and only an imbecile would take such an article seriously.
>>72356795
My poli sci teacher said that "america first" came from the 1940s by Charles Limburg and ended when he said anti sematic things about jews owning the banks and media
>>72357457
citation needed...
She also said that the other countries dont pay into NATO because their economy is shit and they cant afford it.
How does one rebut that statement?
>>72357727
Sorry but I watched the speech, he clearly doesn't know what he was talking about and did contradict himself. You're trying to tell me somehow the media changed what he said to fit their agenda?
>All these Trump cum swallowers rushing to defend him even though he has yet again proven to be full of shit and only shoots himself in the foot anytime he tries to talk about serious and real things and not just MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
daily reminder that trump wants to start a trade war with China and Mexico, force companies to produce goods in the U.S. Despite claiming to be for free trade, and that he seriously thinks a fucking wall will actually fix the illegal immigrant problem.
>>72357667
This man gets it.
>>72357825
America First started with George Washington
>>72356795
>he said that, because of President Obama’s policies, our friends and allies feel they can no longer depend on us—then said that a Trump administration would quit NATO and abandon our allies in Asia entirely unless they started spending more on defense.
My nigga lacks a lot of reading comprehension, it seems he didn't read the art of the deal
>No. 1 national-security goal would be to defeat ISIS—then said that he would work with other nations to do so only if they “appreciate what we’ve done for them,” because for us to be good to them, “they also have to be good to us.”
Yes, getting rid of ISIS would be in the interests of the USA, so it's ok to do it "for free". Although cooperation from others, including russia and syrian regime, would be very appreciated.
>He said we should not help any country that isn’t our friend—then proposed easing tensions with Russia.
Now this is too laughable. Do amerifats still see Russia as the big bad commie empire?
Globalist shills out in force today I see. Gotta make your pennies somehow i suppose.
>>72356795
>Trump makes one of the best speeches, especially the best foreign policy speech, since the 1940s
>#NeverTrump shows more desperation than Cruz by purposely misunderstanding everything
If you don't say "Isreal first, Russia bad", then obviously you don't have the country's interests at heart, goyim.
It's obvious to us what the US's foreign policy has been for a while now, but maybe Trump was right in saying that it's been aimless and random, considering the idiots that actually support the Neo-con narrative.
I thought the speach was bready guud.
>>72358131
>there's absolutely no way that there can be an untainted opinion that differs from mine without being controlled by the Jews and spoken out by shills
I'm sorry that your world view is so short sighted that you can't possibly imagine that there are people who think for themselves and can identify what a populist is
>>72357997
Yep. Sounds fantastic.
But I'm sure you prefer being a little cuckolded bitch to China and Mexico.
>>72357667
>I will believe anything the media tells me like a good little sheep
Get fucked you mindless drone. Think for your fucking self for once.
>>72356795
>none of these statements are contradictions
gj lefties
![20090529_Great_Wall_8185[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/y5A4XdV.jpg "20090529_Great_Wall_8185[1].jpg")
>>72357997
>he seriously thinks a fucking wall will actually fix the illegal immigrant problem
I'm with this globalist, walls have NEVER worked before in the history of mankind.
Now where do I get my Soros bux?
>>72356947
it's ok if you're making fun of a bad guy
>>72358364
You realize a trade war will only hurt Americans right? You realize 70% of illegal immigrants come by fucking planes, don't you? Tell me how tariffs will help anyone but the rich elites who control the market and why punishing the middle class is a good idea just to "stick it to CHINA and FUCKING MEXICO"? Oh and forcing Apple and Microsoft etc to produce in America certainly won't inflate prices of common goods by huge amounts, further hurting the common man.
But yeah, totally lets shoot ourselves in the foot to make some point to two countries we supposedly don't care about.
>>72357667
There isn't one contradiction listed in the article.
The writer (and apparently you also) thinks its a contradiction but this just shows his lack of comprehension of what trump is saying.
>>72357175
You realize that context matters, right? You can say opposing statements if they are referring to separate topics.
>>72358579
Thanks for weighing in, Mr. Kullemaia.
>>72358537
>What are planes
Yeah because a wall in the 21st century is as effective as one from a thousand years ago.
>>72358178
As the article reads, his speech was riddled with contradictions. How does that make a good speech, especially on foreign policy?
>>72358648
"Bleet bleet bleet" goes the cuckolded sheep.
I trust Trump more than I trust some faggot establishment "liberal" that wants more of the same shit we've had for the last 30 years.
Now go get your fuckin' shine box.
My teacher said that Hitler and Mussolini also talked about yumiliation.
When he said obama was yumiliated when nobody was there to greet him in Cuba and Saudi Arabia
>>72356795
>>He said we should not help any country that isn’t our friend—then proposed easing tensions with Russia. (It’s possible to hold one view or the other, but not both.)
>if they're not our ally they're our enemy
Trump laid it out pretty simply. If Russia wants to drop bombs on ISIS he doesn't mind.
>>72358537
...this wall was not only sucessfuly invaded, but china's dynasty replaced.
>>72356795
Wow it's an article of ad Homs veiled under the guise of real analysis.
Trash this nigger shit.
>>72358695
>>72358461
>Our allies can't rely on us anymore thanks to FUCKING OBAMA
>Our allies suck and need to pay for themselves, we're gonna peace out of NATO
GG, trumptards.
>>72356795
>Slate
>Trusting a far left menstruation rag
https://twitter.com/CantStumpTrump1/status/725410488494989312
He actually said this. He fucking said it.
>>72358648
You realize no first world country has let its manufacturing hollow out and trade deficits grow faster than the US?
China, Japan, Germany, all economic behemoths who rely on manufacturing, generous trade surpluses and favorable trade deals. But let's not shoot ourselves in the foot by preserving our middle class and implementing protectionist trade policy used by all the most influential economies.
>>72358803
Nice, man! Stellar argument you conducted yourself right there. Good thing /pol/ is satire and I don't need to take inbred retards like you seriously.
>>72358902
NATO sucks anyway. I thought you faggot bernouts were anti-war anyway? Why not pull out of all that expensive war shit?
Oh right. You're a faggot. You can't think for yourself.
>>72356795
>off a teleprompter
He memorized it though kek
![berglee-fig08_027[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/9C0xd82.jpg "berglee-fig08_027[1].jpg")
>>72358752
>Yeah because a wall in the 21st century is as effective as one from a thousand years ago.
Absolutely, I'm completely agreeing with you. Just ask the Israelis, their wall is basically useless.
Now answer my question, where do I get my Soros bux for shilling?
>>72358902
You misquoted it and misrepresented what he said. Try again.
Do you see how the two ideas can mutually support eachother?
>Donald trump said that this is a problem
>im not going to explain why, but this is wrong
>>72358997
Okay, but Trump isn't a protectionist.
>>72356795
$.01 has been deposited into your account.
>>72356795
I love his foreign policy, the fuck's wrong with you?
>>72356837
fpbbbbbp
>>72359012
>"WAAAAAAAAAAAAH U DONT AGRE WITH ME THAT MAKEZ U RETARD TEEHEEHEEHEEHEE ME SO FUNNY UR A TARD HEEHEE"
Poor little sheep's getting bootybothered because people don't wanna be sheep with him.
Poor little bootybothered sheep. :((((
>>72359038
Can you explain how a wall will prevent 70% of illegals coming via plane?
>>72359012
>>72357997
He's simply applying the principles of business to the conduct of nations.
For example, if you do a service for someone, you should expect to be compensated for it. Demanding fair payment doesn't make people hate you, it makes people respect you. Right now the US is a laughing stock. We altruistically spend trillions defending the nations of the world, and get nothing in return. Europe could not even finance these massive welfare states if it had to provide for it's own defense. They're laughing at us all the way to the bank. The entire expense for the world's defense is coming down on the American taxpayer.
In a negotiation, you always need to have an ultimatum. You have to be prepared to walk from the table. If you're not, the other side can demand anything they want from you, knowing you'll capitulate. Thus we have to be prepared to leave these other nations to fend for themselves if they don't give us proper compensation and proper respect for our efforts. They'll actually like us more if we do this, because they'll respect us. We won't be a sucker anymore.
And the fact is that our nuclear arsenal is decaying. $20 billion dollars spent evaporates into thin air. Trump has talked to generals and commanders on the ground who have told him and shown him the dilapidated state of the nuclear infrastructure. They're using phones from the 1950's.
The writer of this article has no business sense, and is passive-aggressively trying to poke little holes wherever he can by taking statements out of their context. Trump is literally a genius with a 156 IQ, the idea that he's some sort of moron is laughable. He's a quintessential manager. Although he doesn't know all the specifics himself, he knows how to manage people, and govern the situation to work out an effective solution. It's what he's been doing all his life.
>>72359121
>People like this actually take themselves seriously and consider them to be above the average person intellectually
>You share a website with these people
All I see from you are ad hominems and nothing else.
>>72356795
>kaplan
>smells jewy
>check wiki
>nothing there about religion
>click on wife's page (she's with NPR)
ohhhh there it is
Personal life
Gladstone resides in Brooklyn with her husband, journalist Fred Kaplan. They have adult twin daughters. Gladstone is Jewish.[4] She says she has Attention Deficit Disorder but tries not to let it distract her.[5]
>>72356837
FPBP
>>72357997
>start a trade war with China and Mexico, force companies to produce goods in the U.S.
Were already in a trade war you retard
Your boy sanders has the same positions on trade that Trump does
fucking retard
>>72359290
It's okay little sheep.
The Emperor protects those who love him.
But you'll get all the BBC you want in Canada when you move after he's elected.
>>72356795
>How the fuck USA dare to do ebin socialism and spend all his monet in defence=
>Ok then, I am quitting NATO, it is up to you now
>How USA dares to leaves his allies alone
>>72359068
everytime
seriously, NOTHING in that quoted text or elswhere in the "article" was contradictory
>>72359211
>And the fact is that our nuclear arsenal is decaying. $20 billion dollars spent evaporates into thin air. Trump has talked to generals and commanders on the ground who have told him and shown him the dilapidated state of the nuclear infrastructure. They're using phones from the 1950's.
[citation needed]
>>72359346
>All these implications
Reminder that Trumps tax plan will create a $10 billion dollar deficit over 10 years.
Reminder that Trump has said no cuts to Social Security, Medicare, and defense spending.
Reminder that Trump has only mentioned cutting foreign aid, which accounts for ~$40 billion annually.
Reminder that Trump nor his supporters can account for the other ~$9 billion.
Good job pol, you can't grasp basic math.
>>72359465
and all of them true
>>72359188
It won't, the Coyotes are already training Mexicans for illegal para-trooping over the plains of Arizona. Even though there's intense security at airports after 9/11 that constantly check for illegals, drugs and criminals, the US government won't be able to stop the massive amounts of parachuting burritos.
>shills really can't comprehend a concept as simple as a wall
>>72357053
>HURR AMERICA FIRST WAS BAAAAAD
>people who'd lived through WWI didn't want to deal with Europe's bullshit anymore
>this is bad
Libcucks everyone.
>>72356795
Man liberals have shitty comprehension don't they?
>>72359466
that's where the protection money from NATO and other "ally" racket comes in doofus
they gotta start paying tribute
>>72356795
>k a p l a n
>>72359398
>The emperor
Holy shit what a cuck you are. How triggered are you going to be when Trump loses?
>>72359466
Billions huh? 40 billion annually? 10 billion over ten years? Some random 9 billion.
Thank god our spending and income is in the trillions or I'd be worried.
>>72359188
if we build a wall and illegal immigrants keep coming do you think that we'll not know what the problem is and be able to adjust accordingly?
i dont know where you got 70% from, if thats really the case, then we could easily track one and find where they are landing at
>>72356837
FP;BP
![Big+carl+dump+carl+is+new+meme_2e4c61_5861384[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/IufdTij.jpg "Big+carl+dump+carl+is+new+meme_2e4c61_5861384[1].jpg")
>>72359012
>>72358902
Did you even listen to the speech?
No you probably just read the article and then said
>HURRRR OMG HE IS SO RIGHT FUCK DEUMPF HAHA LOOK GUYS IM SO COOL FOR HATING HIM
>>72359628
>implying Trump isn't going to win
Start packing your bags, Bernout.
>>72359649
Mate, situations like this have happened before. Do you really think this government can "adjust accordingly"?
>>72356795
>Taking shit out of context. The post.
They sure do try hard.
It's like retards saying Mein Kampf is nonsensical. It isn't that hard to comprehend what is being said.
>>72359774
>>72359709
>>72359663
>I haven't left high school yet and think I'm an absolute savage for supporting Trump and spend my days hoarding hilarious God emporer memes
>>72356795
Literally none of these things are contradictory. These guys are retards.
>>72356795
I'm confused; there isn't a single contradiction in there.
1) Just because others lose their trust in us, doesn't mean we can't lose our trust in them
2) It makes perfect geopolitical sense to only work with those that show goodwill.
It's what everyone claims to be doing right now.
3) Just because the US is weakened and China is strengthened doesn't mean the US doesn't have enormous economic leverage over China.
4) Who the fuck says Russia can't (or indeed shouldn't) be a friend of the US?
5) Trump showed a general intention to strengthen the military during a general address. This in no way means he doesn't recognize the possible trade-offs.
And it certainly doesn't disregard the need to set priorities, since Trump is making the military a bigger priority.
In all honesty, that entire piece is an incoherent mess.
Is Slate a well-known media outlet?
>>72359895
>i take 4chan so seriously that I get anally annihilated over memes
>>72359466
>$10 billion dollar deficit over 10 years.
Is that it? Illegal spics cost us 110 Billion EVERY YEAR, not to mention the long-term drain imposed by a low-IQ underclass that can't integrate and achieve a first world living standard.
>>72356795
"what's in it for us?"
>childish
>narcissistic
Fucking liberals
>>72358902
It's funny you mention Obama, because he believes the exact same thing as Trump.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/10/world/middleeast/obama-criticizes-the-free-riders-among-americas-allies.html
>>72360011
I meant trillion.
>>72359649
Nothing of what you said makes sense.
>The wall won't actually stop a large amount of illegals coming
>But we'll figure it out eventually
People come over on work visas or use forged documents and then end up just staying here. It's not Jose and his 15 family members literally walk across our boarder.
>>72359788
if the problem persists, someone is bound to notice and figure out why
the objective is to tighten border security, if the wall doesnt work, then we'll have a pretty good clue of what needs to be done next
>>72359920
>He said Obama has “snubbed” Israel, when in fact many Israeli military and intelligence officers credit Obama with providing more security assistance than any recent president.
>He added that, because of the deal, Iran has become “a great, great power”—which must come as news to Iran’s leaders, who are frustrated that, despite the lifting of sanctions, they still can’t get much trade going with the West.
>He also said, as he has before, that he opposed the Iraq war because it would destabilize the Middle East—when, in fact, he supported the invasion not long before it took place.
>>72359895
>projecting this hard
Do you always call people children when they call you out on your bullshit?
>>72360056
Wanting something in return is childish, and wanting to actually enforce your borders is racist.
The new globalist world order ladies and gentlemen.
>>72360002
I'm the one who got 15 different people to reply to me calling me a sheep cuck ;)
>>72360116
>It's not Jose and his 15 family members literally walk across our boarder.
No, Bernout. It is.
Go look at all the garbage they leave everywhere when they walk across the border. It's disgusting out there. It looks like your fuckin bedroom man. Piss jugs and crusty boxers everywhere.
>>72360156
>projecting this hard
Do you always call someone a faggot shill globalist kike for calling out Trump on his bullshit?
>We will no longer surrender this country, or its people, to the false song of globalism.
>The nation-state remains the true foundation for happiness and harmony.
Literally Hitler 2.0
>>72360208
>>72360116
you just said they were coming in by plane and now theyre coming in with forged documents?
which one is it then?
and where did the statistic 70% of illegals coming in by plane come from?
>>72360208
Wow you're a regular memer, huh buddy?
kek
KEK
kek
>>72360125
Even if he manages to become POTUS, I hardly think he could manage to enact his Wall idea, and much more, fix it if the air-dropped immigrants things comes true. Nearly everyone and everything that matters are against him I feel.
>>72360301
>>72360208
You just keep posting, damn, that must be some nice cash.
You never answered my question from earlier, where do I get my Soros bux?
>>72360062
Funny then, how Trump then tries to throw him under the bus and use him as an example of how our relations with our allies have been weakened.
Then again Trump knows he can't win without getting the "OBAMA IS A LIZARD MAN ANTI CHRIST" vote
>>72356795
I can't believe this fucking tool has a good chance to win and Bernie Sanders hardly has a chance. You Americans really are as dumb as everyone thinks you are
>>72356795
>i have no reading comprehension: the thread
>>72357636
this
>>72360267
Why would they leave piss bottles instead of just pissing on a tree?
>>72360301
There was nothing contradictory of what he said in his speech. You are being a little butt blasted faggot and have zero evidence to back up your claim. You keep crying though.
>>72360472
What's more, I hate the fact that of all the candidates, Trump, Hillary, Cruz, and Sanders are the best that could be managed. This is what happens when Americans who have no business in voting vote. I hate to say it, but god damn, most people shouldn't vote.
>>72360472
Justin pls
>>72360420
How the fuck do the two things not relate to each other you mouth breather?
>>72360558
Why do you piss in a bottle instead of using the toilet, neckbeard?
>>72360452
The wall is already approved and ready to go, it just needs funds.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6388548
And guess where the money is gonna come from.
Also > fix it if the air-dropped immigrants things comes true
That was a fucking joke you retard, Coyotes are not training illegals to para-troop. Top kek.
>>72356795
>Fred Kaplan
>Kaplan
EVERY FUCKING TIME
How many of you are going to commit suicide when Trump doesn't win? I really hope you guys get the proper support you'll need when your "God emporer" either backs out of the race or loses the general.
>>72360866
I have a delivery for 2Pannf3/
Please sign here.
>>72360766
You can think of better responses than that, try harder you projecting storm front babbie
>>72359428
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/04/28/huge_floppy_disks_and_other_old_tech_is_common_at_air_force_nuclear_missile.html
Oh my sweet summer shill.
>>72359319
What the fuck does this even mean
>>72360866
Yes, THIS time the media's right about Trump and will predict his performance in 6 months.
>>72357998
This man gets cock
>>72360953
At least you'll have your anime to live for
>>72360761
move goal posts much?
>>72360761
how is it that after two times you still manage to fail to state where you got the statistic from?
its cause you made it up
>>72356795
This is easily one of the worst article I've ever read. What a fucking piece of garbage. How the fuck does this qualify as journalism?
There is literally not one instance of Trump contradicting himself; the author sees everything as a dichotomy.
>>72360958
DAYUM.
You're MAD.
I guess I hit close to home.
>>72356795
Idiots at Salon are so stupid that they couldn't understand anything that he said even though he used simple language.
>>72361002
Your new is showing
>>72358752
>planes
because massive amounts of economic immigrants can afford a flight over the Great Trumpenreich's wall? Please kill yourself faggot
>>72360979
Sorry, anon but that article is from slate. And as stated before can NOT be taken seriously as a source, since they are so biased and stuff. GTFO u kike shill
>>72361107
Mexico's airforce consists of a cessna and some hang gliders.
I doubt the cartel or a bunch of coyotes can do much better.
But faggots gonna fag.
>>72361024
>>72361029
>How can illegals come by plane AND have forged documents??????
How can you be so honestly stupid
>>72361002
thats what i want to know
here i was coming to see how shit pol has doing and what i see on the Politically incorrect boards is some Bullshit globalist propaganda post i mean god damn i was here when it was fucking /news/ and i have no idea it was this bad since i left,, what the fuck happened pol, how can anyone be anti trump after that amazing speech
i just don't get it
>Salon supporting neocon Shillary (who destroyed 3 countries, Yemen, Syria, and Libya) over the relatively anti interventionist Trump
kek
>>72358537
Because the average poor spic looking for free shit will just as easily be smuggled through a plan as a car or walking.
You are legitimately retarded if you think a huge and complete wall with other small anti-immigration measures won't decrease the influx by more than 50%.
Also not only is the 70% by air statistic utter bullshit. Most of them are actual visa'd Mexican's that over stay their period. The real criminals and trash of Mexico almost all come by just walking through tunnels or driving.
>>72356795
>For example, he said that, because of President Obama’s policies, our friends and allies feel they can no longer depend on us
Politically, this is true. Obama's foreign policy has been to not hold the allies together, then get pissed when nothing goes right, an issue of coherence and reliability. Obama even came around to tell Britain what to do.
>then said that a Trump administration would quit NATO and abandon our allies in Asia entirely unless they started spending more on defense.
Relying on the US is different to taking American military expenditure for granted in order to spend spend spend on refugee welfare.
>He said that his No. 1 national-security goal would be to defeat ISIS—then said that he would work with other nations to do so only if they “appreciate what we’ve done for them,” because for us to be good to them, “they also have to be good to us.”
This is a message reiterating that co-operation must be done on a mutual basis, and that the US will no longer be taken advantage of.
>(There’s something childish, even narcissistic, about this demand, which he recited in the tone of a desperately firm parent.)
Fuck you, Slate.
>He said, as he has many times, that our trade deficit has severely weakened America and strengthened China—then said that we have enormous economic leverage over China and that we should use it to get China to rein in North Korea.
What doesn't make sense here? The massive trade deficit benefits them more than the US, and eviscerating this amount of trade to the US would hurt the Chinese economy immensely.
>He said we should not help any country that isn’t our friend—then proposed easing tensions with Russia.
Ending the artificial conflict with Russia as the archenemy of the US, and treating them simply as a rival that it is possible to co-operate with, isn't being "friends".
>(It’s possible to hold one view or the other, but not both.)
Fuck you, Slate.
>He said he would-
Just fuck off, Slate
>>72360979
>Lily Hay Newman
>Newman
Every Fucking Time.
>>72360464
You really have poor comprehension. Obama has said before that footing the bill for NATO hurts the country, especially when those same countries won't do the same to protect the US. That means both Obama AND Trump agree that NATO shouldn't exist in its current form. Of course Obama redacted what he said when his handlers got to him after the Atlantic interview, but Trump actually means it.
Obama's treatment of other nations has NOTHING to do with the legitimacy of NATO, except with the inane narrative you're trying to create about Trump voters. Now are you going to tell me where I get Soros bux, or what?
>>72361118
>not using the same source against someone
Debate 101 is calling, it's the most impervious form of counter argument.
>>72356837
FPBP
>>72356795
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY
>>72356795
>>He said we should not help any country that isn’t our friend—then proposed easing tensions with Russia. (It’s possible to hold one view or the other, but not both.)
Stopped reading this when I saw that. How the fuck is it contradicting to hold both views?
Helping another country that isn't our friend doesn't mean the same thing as easing tensions with Russia.
Completely biased article that in itself is also, ironically, an incoherent mess.
>>72361064
>Salon
Is Slate part of Salon?
Because that would explain a lot.
>>72361356
what the fuck does that mean faggot holy shit
that you don't have an augment and you're just saying words jesus fuckin christ what a nigger
>>72361107
>>72361186
>>72361029
>>72361024
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/sep/08/jorge-ramos/ramos-40-undocumented-immigrants-come-air/
>>72360208
So your counter-argument was to admit you are a troll?
![fred_kaplan-authorbio[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/7UZq18G.png "fred_kaplan-authorbio[1].png")
>>72356795
>(((Fred Kaplan)))
I knew it before opening the link from reading the first sentence OP quoted. When someone in the media tells you the very opposite of the truth with absolute confidence and chutzpah about it, that's probably a Jew.
>>72356795
>slate
>>72356795
>slate
>>72360807
Well, even then, there would likely be bi-partisan support just to fuck with Trump anyways by axing the BFA. And who knows, maybe there's a grain of truth in that little joke.
>Critics say security is a specious argument for building a border fence. They wonder why the same barriers aren't being suggested for the Canadian border, where potential terrorists have actually been caught. They say barriers help curb illegal immigration only where they are put, because people find ways around them.
Illegals will definitely find a way past Trump's wall if it comes to fruition. Not to mention this is a wall, not a fence we're talking about. Probably much more expensive.
>>72361455
>using politifact as a legitimate source
>>72356795
>>72356795
>Spoke about putting America first
>the incompetence of our leaders
>Having the respect of the world again
How was anything he said incoherent? It was one of the best foreign policy speeches in American politics in a long time. Just because they disagree with "America first" (not a surprise, the fucking commies) they say its incoherent. The media is so damn shameful.
So how many Europeans are funding Slate? They clearly don't want to pay for NATO or basically do anything that requires policing or accountability without American taxpayers having to pay for European shit.
>>72360979
Is it so much to ask for a source, sweet anon?
>>72361341
>point
>your head
>>72360208
>i was only pretending to be retarded
>>72356795
Trump could say the sun rises in the east and there would still be people getting paid to call him a liar about it.
What did you expect?
Trump made a speech, now the media will criticize it.
Fortunately he spent the beginning of his campaign exposing them, so no one with half a brain is listening to the media.
Anyone who didn't get a hardon watching it is simply a communist
>the left is so far gone that if they're not being addressed with emotionally fueled irrational yelling and bullshit they cannot process what they're hearing and call it incoherence
gg
>>72361523
>please give me a source that aligns with my world view
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooke_Gladstone
THIS IS HIS WIFE
POL WAS RIGHT AGAIN
>>72361445
fibby bippy
>>72361689
They're so far gone that unless someone constantly acknowledges their existence, and says with soft, cooing, reassuring voices that they are special they go apoplectic.
>>72357859
hello r*ddit...
>>72358902
These aren't mutually-exclusive statements, it's just you're not able to understand the concept of fairness.
>>72360979
>http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/04/28/huge_floppy_disks_and_other_old_tech_is_common_at_air_force_nuclear_missile.html
>Leslie Stahl of CBS's 60 Minutes reported from a Wyoming nuclear control center for a segment that aired on Sunday, and the Cold War-era tech she found is pretty amazing. But it also makes sense. The government built facilities for the Minuteman missiles in the 1960s and 1970s, and though the missiles have been upgraded numerous times to make them safer and more reliable, the bases themselves haven't changed much. And there isn't a lot of incentive to upgrade them. ICBM forces commander Maj. Gen. Jack Weinstein told Stahl that the bases have extremely tight IT and cyber security, because they're not Internet-connected and they use such old hardware and software.
>While on the base, missileers showed Stahl the 8-inch floppy disks they use as part of launch commands for the missiles. Later, in an interview with Weinstein, Stahl described the disk she was shown as "gigantic," and said she had never seen one that big. Weinstein explained, "Those older systems provide us some, I will say, huge safety, when it comes to some cyber issues that we currently have in the world."
>The Air Force is planning to spend $19 million on launch control center improvements in 2014, and is seeking $600 million for additional upgrades next year.
Hey sir, I found this in your source.
>>72361445
First Post Best Post
>>72358648
>CURRENT YEAR
>not having an integrated and comprehensive national ID / visa system
>>72361626
>MFW Trump won the Presidency with that speech
>>72361716
You could always use a source that doesn't lie.
>>72356969
LMAO Iran has NOT abode by the terms. Even if they had, the set terms are terrible for America.
>>72357053
>"“The world is more dangerous than it has ever been.”
Again, absolutely true. We've haven't had this much threat of attacks on American soil since WW2. An insurgency is very dangerous.
>>Trump added that Obama has let our nuclear arsenal atrophy, when in fact the Pentagon is spending $20 billion a year to maintain and modernize it.
They "modernized" what they didn't decommission.
I knew the dishonest media would make the America First connection to isolationism. Typical. You can put America first without withdrawing from the world. It's what Trump has been saying all along, free trade, but smart trade. Our interests FIRST, ALWAYS.
>>72357859
What exactly you want cited? And if reelection is your standard, let me point you to a man who loved FDRs policies to the point he implemented a lot of them: Hugo Chaves, the constantly elected populist who got in power due to an economic crisis.
>>72361830
+1
thank you holy shit
god damn is this what it feels like to be an old man when kids start using new slang you don't understand
Im getting to old for this shit
>>72361196
>he still cant place the statistic
its okay to admit you were wrong matey
>>72356795
>read first so called lie of Trump
>already wrong as he said the other countries have to pay a fair share to remain united
>>72357667
They aren't just biased they outright lie when it comes to Trump. They're saying its incoherent because they are anti-Americans who don't agree with putting our country before others. Incoherence is not subjective.
![[intelligent but mindfully playful reaction image ala reddit].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/wLruREA.jpg "[intelligent but mindfully playful reaction image ala reddit].jpg")
HA HA DRUMPF FUCKING BTFO
/POL/ BTFO
HMMMMMMM.....
IT REALLY MAKES YOU THINK.... DOESN'T IT?
WHY DOESN'T /POL/ EXPLAIN THIS?
[European/European-descended nationality/nation] ISN'T WHITE!
WHY IS [European/European-decended nation] SO SHIT?
[sect of Christianity] IS FOR KEKS!
HA HA [alt-right political position] IS SHIT HA HA
[more divide-and-conquer commentary meant to break up /pol/'s community]
/POL/ CANNOT RECOVER
BACK TO /POL/ STORMWEENIE
/POL/
/POL/
/POL/
/POL/
>>72359211
Yeah but running the country like a business is inherently EVIL! Don't you watch CNN?
>>72361789
>special
They're so special that they're an insult to actual retards.
American industry and employment has been severely weakened by our trade deficit with China, but we still have leverage over them because our trade is the driving force behind Chinese GDP growth. You might be retarded if you don't get that.
The only antagonizing player in the US-Russian relationship today is us. We're the ones sticking our dicks in their sphere of influence and trying to rob them of all their allies through regime change. But a lot of our "friends" like Israel and the Saudis actively work against our own interests. What Trump said was entirely consistent.
This shit was written by a frustrated neocon seeing GOP slip out of their claws.
>>72361829
That same segment also shows why we use a lot of those old methods today, they are effectively immune to cyberattacks.
https://www.rt.com/usa/203619-us-nuclear-forces-mismanagement/
Here's another, more reliable, source for you to chew on.
We pay millions to upkeep things made in the 70's with no idea if they may even still work when we need them. Under Obama's administration we are pretty much throwing money in a hole.
>>72357997
>Trump
>EVER claiming to be for tree trade
Neck yourself thx
>>72361455
> 40% of undocumented immigrants come by air
40%
70%
what is the difference between the two above numbers?
>>72361716
>politifact is a le credible, unbiased source xD
>>72361275
It's all about the money anon. Who is best for business. Trump has already stated he is going to be pursuing reforms on libel/slander laws in the media. That's why they're all in such a terrified froth trying to stop him, they know the party is over. You won't be able to get away with outright lying anymore is their fear.
>>72356795
>For example, he said that, because of President Obama’s policies, our friends and allies feel they can no longer depend on us—then said that a Trump administration would quit NATO and abandon our allies in Asia entirely unless they started spending more on defense.
countries thinking America is a lying asshole is not the same as America stating clearly what needs to happen before they will intervene
>He said that his No. 1 national-security goal would be to defeat ISIS—then said that he would work with other nations to do so only if they “appreciate what we’ve done for them,” because for us to be good to them, “they also have to be good to us.” (There’s something childish, even narcissistic, about this demand, which he recited in the tone of a desperately firm parent.)
it's absolutely not contradictory that America will fuck ISIS by itself whilst not getting stuck in some Quagmire in some Anti-American muzzie country
>He said, as he has many times, that our trade deficit has severely weakened America and strengthened China—then said that we have enormous economic leverage over China and that we should use it to get China to rein in North Korea.
Weakened does not mean no longer exists, America is still stronger than china, just that china is gaining strength whilst America is loosing it
>He said we should not help any country that isn’t our friend—then proposed easing tensions with Russia. (It’s possible to hold one view or the other, but not both.)
easing tensions is not the same as helping, this is pretty fucking obvious and a desperate reach by the author
>He said he would strengthen America’s economy in order to shrink the deficit—then said he would use the extra wealth to boost jobs, then said he would use it to increase the military budget, without the slightest recognition of possible trade-offs or the need to set priorities.
there's nothing wrong with that in a speech, Sanders does the same shit with "FREE EVERYTHING"
>>72358860
Because they literally opened the gates. In a classic case of "maybe being friends with the enemy of my friend is kinda retarded when I think about it", they tried getting the mongols and on a later occasion the Manchus to help quell a rebellion and the quellers decided they rather liked staying there.
>>72362136
There's a tard colony in my town. With some help, and some prodding, they can achieve some degree of autonomy and some even manage to engage in menial labor.
But if you go to a university, and write "TRUMP 2016" in chalk on the sidewalk, half the student body either pisses themselves right on the spot, or runs to the campus safe space and requires a cuddle before they can function once more.
>>72362070
pls no more
>>72356795
>>>>>>>>/reddit/
>>>>>>>>/out/
>>72361499
>hey wonder why the same barriers aren't being suggested for the Canadian border, where potential terrorists have actually been caught.
Wow really? So the Islamists said they are infiltrating immigrants from Canada? Oh wait no, they said Mexico. Plus terrorism is a very minor motive for building the wall. The main thing is keeping people out of the country who cost us 80B a year in entitlements and who commit heinous crimes at a far greater rate than the native population. Not to mention they are also a guaranteed Dem voting bloc since we are the only 1st world country on the planet that doesn't require voter ID, ironically, Mexico does.
>>72356795
>Put Americans ahead of others
TRUMP IS A MESS, A BIG FAT MESS
>>72357997
We're already in a trade war. What Trump is suggesting is fighting back and eventually coming to terms. Its not ideal but its far better than letting Mexico and China continue to plunder us.
>>72356795
>we should be able to rely on America for backup and spend more on defense so we're not totally dependent
>ISIS need to be destroyed without propping up countries that support and fund them
>China has been strengthened from a significantly weak state to not yet be an insurmountable problem
>America should help its friends and avoid making new enemies
>need to create jobs, many of which can be provided by an expanded military
How are any of these even wrong, let alone contradictory? This is some serious damage control if I've ever seen it.
>>72362319
So it seems then that this atrophy is a result of Post-Cold War attitudes. Unless Trump was planning on starting a new Cold War, should there be a need to update the technology, which is actually reasonably safe from outside attack, yet of questionable condition?
And it doesn't seem this can be pinned solely on Obama. Bush and Clinton may be just as much to blame for failing to maintain the nuclear stockpile to modern levels.
>>72359428
If you can put up with 2015 man:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y1ya-yF35g
Though if you are spending any amount of money on maintenance it "evaporates into thin air"
>>72363234
Fortunately not even the plebs believe the MSM anymore. Exposing them so early on was a master stroke on Trump's part. Now that he is being more serious he doesn't have to call the media dishonest liars all the time, people just know.
he actually didnt use a teleprompter you commeis
>>72359211
>He's simply applying the principles of business to the conduct of nations.
>For example, if you do a service for someone, you should expect to be compensated for it. Demanding fair payment doesn't make people hate you, it makes people respect you. Right now the US is a laughing stock. We altruistically spend trillions defending the nations of the world, and get nothing in return. Europe could not even finance these massive welfare states if it had to provide for it's own defense. They're laughing at us all the way to the bank. The entire expense for the world's defense is coming down on the American taxpayer.
>In a negotiation, you always need to have an ultimatum. You have to be prepared to walk from the table. If you're not, the other side can demand anything they want from you, knowing you'll capitulate. Thus we have to be prepared to leave these other nations to fend for themselves if they don't give us proper compensation and proper respect for our efforts. They'll actually like us more if we do this, because they'll respect us. We won't be a sucker anymore.
>And the fact is that our nuclear arsenal is decaying. $20 billion dollars spent evaporates into thin air. Trump has talked to generals and commanders on the ground who have told him and shown him the dilapidated state of the nuclear infrastructure. They're using phones from the 1950's.
>The writer of this article has no business sense, and is passive-aggressively trying to poke little holes wherever he can by taking statements out of their context. Trump is literally a genius with a 156 IQ, the idea that he's some sort of moron is laughable. He's a quintessential manager. Although he doesn't know all the specifics himself, he knows how to manage people, and govern the situation to work out an effective solution. It's what he's been doing all his life.
this
>>72359929
>media outlet
yes
>reliable news source
only to the people who read it
imagine the even fiercer anti-trump blowback on /pol/ once Sanders drops out
>>72356795
America First
FUCK YEAH.
>>72362776
Keep in mind, the source the guy gave me is from 2006. But you still didn't address that the Wall might not even be effective. Or without inordinate costs, much more than a fence.
>>72356795
It was an amazing speech and that pisses a lot of people off
>>72363610
it's the flash
>>72363737
That's like asking a doctor to address the possibility your coughing is actually cancer. Walls have been shown to be an effective way to prevent the entrance of undesirables and contraband (the Jewish wall, for example), and using known costs for the other wall, it would cost at max 15 billion dollars for the full length. In other words, fuck off.
>>72364153
Tunnels. Also source for that cost?
>>72364358
>tunnels
Why bother locking your door at night anon? people can just break it down anyway :^)
>>72364446
It's not just tunnels I would think. There's more than one way to skin a cat as they would say. And besides, some people don't lock their doors because they live in a good neighborhood. Maybe he should start improving conditions in Mexico by sending aid? Improve the neighborhood?
>because for us to be good to them, “they also have to be good to us.” (There’s something childish, ....
Slate was a mistake
>>72359895
MAXIMUM BUTTHURT!
>>72364653
Yeah just throw money at Mexico, what a fantastic idea.
Or -- and get this -- build the wall out of T-sections, patrol it well, do weekly scans for tunneling, and shoot on sight anyone coming through a breach in the wall
>>72364153
Actually, lemme just pull another thing from the article.
>There's no official government estimate of how much it would cost to build a 700-mile-long border fence. Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-CA), the main backer of the fence plan, has been quoted as estimating the project would cost about $2.2 billion. That's roughly $3 million per mile. But Sean Garcia, an expert on fencing with the Latin American Working Group, says the costs are likely to be much higher. Garcia notes that Hunter severely underestimated the cost of the San Diego fence, which is the model for the larger fence. Hunter said the San Diego fence would cost $14 million, or about $1 million a mile. The first 11 miles of the fence actually cost $42 million, or $3.8 million per mile, Garcia says; the last 3.5 miles may cost several times that much because they cover more difficult terrain. And that's just the cost for building materials. Labor, surveillance cameras, sensors, lighting and road construction are not included. Plus, there are the potential costs of fighting any lawsuits that may crop up, and of buying land from private landowners.
The guy pushing it said it would be 2.2B. But evidently, it would be much more than that. And then we come to Trump's wall, using more materials that are more expensive with more security measures as well. Maybe it would be 15B, but not even the Representative was right on his estimated cost.
>>72364358
What of them? Israel deal with them already using sismic sensors. Again, fuck off, you aren't here to actually get your mind change, despite I literally just repeating things already posted.
>>72364687
You think?
>>72365369
You'd be right that I don't support building Trump's wall. It's ludicrous to think that it could even be done in the political climate that Trump would be in if he were elected. And if it were built, that it would even be effective in this situation.
>>72365772
Then again, fuck off. We know the cost and effectiveness of the Israeli wall and until that wall starts failing, you don't have an argument about effectiveness or viability.
>>72365772
"Just give up and do nothing, open borders for white countries"
--anonymous
>>72366023
But why do you act as if that wall is to keep illegal immigrants out? It seems to me that it's simply to separate the Palestinians lands from Israeli lands. Not intended exactly to keep the undesirable unwashed immigrants out. The people wanting to go to the other side either want to blow up or work.
>>72366226
Seems to work for your cucked country, britman.
>>72360472
Bernie's abysmal chances don't have much to do with your average American voter (excluding nogs). Bernie has no chance because of the DNC's retarded, corrupt, anti-democratic system of supredelegates for the primary process.
This is marginally related to this thread, but I say this as a Trump voter. I disagree with almost everything Bernie says, yet I actually agree with him on some social issues where I disagree with Trump. But I am pissed off that the DNC is denying Trump an actual honest, prinicipled man as an opponent, regardless of how misguided he is.
It doesn't matter, though, since neither can stump the next POTUS :^)
>>72366402
Pardon?
>>72366339
It's to stop groups of militants from going into Israeli towns and doing Bad Things. You also don't want terrorists among your population, yeah.
>>72366732
Aye, Hillary.
>>72359012
Hey Rick Wilson
Guess what
I havent jerked off to anime in a long long time
>>72356795
>(There’s something childish, even narcissistic, about this demand, which he recited in the tone of a desperately firm parent.)
This sounds like a reasonable and unbiased person
>>72366820
You missed the point. The goal of Israel's wall is to protect from terrorist attacks, not to prevent illegal immigrations. You can't apply this wall idea to the border of the US and Mexico and expect it to work 100%. Trump is taking you all for a ride. And it'll be something to see when it crashes. We'll laugh about it for months while Trumpers do damage control for their failed messiah. Cuck.
>>72367087
He's actually not a Jew, apparently, unlike Robert Kaplan...
Although he is married to one, lol. So maybe he's a crypto-jew.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooke_Gladstone
>>72367252
>walls made to keep people and contraband out are keeping them out
>but I will somehow not keep people and contraband out if you do it here
Again, fuck off. If you were some ignorant idiot I would actively link and talk, but you made your intention clear while still being fucking wrong and trying for a semantic victory.
>>72367252
>The goal of Israel's wall is to protect from terrorist attacks, not to prevent illegal immigrations
Walls don't care about intent.
>You can't apply this wall idea to the border of the US and Mexico and expect it to work
errr
>>72367574
god bless those soldiers standing ready to defend their nation
why can't we do that here, and be proud of it?
>>72367252
>You can't apply this wall idea to the border of the US and Mexico and expect it to work 100%
Having something in place which deals with non-corner cases (easily 80-90% and even more, see Pareto) and easily moddable/iterable to deal with the corner cases is eminently more acceptable than not having anything at all or waiting to complete The Right Thing.
Do you even New Jersey Style?
>>72368033
Letting the perfect be the enemy of the good is a classic concern troll tactic. He's a fucking retard.
Slate is absolutely retarded. They advocate killing all men.
>>72356969
>which may sound alarming, until you consider (which Trump hasn’t) that the Cold War ended in 1991: It would be strange if the military hadn’t shrunk since then.
If there's one thing I learned from the scouts, it's "be prrpared".
If there's one government program that should be bloated and vastly overfinded, it should be the military.
>>72368754
They don't even Vegetius.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
>>72356795
Whoever wrote this slate article has no fucking clue what the current stage of world affairs looks like.
>>72368754
>prrpared
>overfinded
Wew
Prepared*, overfunded*
>>72368879
Exactly, excellent way of putting it.
>>72368908
It's Slate so the author is preoccupied with grooming their very own children to have sex with black boys, or hyperventilating over the flavour of the month SJW issue on Twitter.
>>72356795
Delicious globalist tears.
>>72356837
FPBP
OP and article are full of shit.
Fucking hell
>it's now childish to want something in return for what you do
When did this happen?
>>72357457
>>72357859
>>72357859
New Deal was shit. This man tried to warn us but Obama got his prolonged depression, FDR style, anyways.
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/stories/misguided-government-policies-80595
>>72356795
why would I believe or seriously consider anything coming from the Slate
>>72357825
Charles Lindbergh is a hero.
>>72356795
>The article begins with "I"
Reminder that these people are bloggers and not journalists.
>>72360105
so less than obama in 8 years then
