Why is abortion wrong? I'm not a religious man, so the concept of there being a soul transported into the fetus by God (or however that works) doesn't really convince me
Is the whole argument pinned to when people consider a fetus to be a "human life"?
I've got a particularly pointed argument against the "it's a living human" argument:
Say your son's liver is failing. Without your body (or someone else's), they will die. It is your legal right to refuse to give your son a piece of your liver to save their lives, even if it will not harm you long term in any way.
Why is this different in the case of a fetus? Yes they may be their own autonomic being, separate from the mother yet dependent upon her, but how can we say that it's not right to force a parent to donate their body to their child in one case, but not the other?
>>81361770
You don't need to be God fearing man to oppose abortion.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Whether your creator is God, or nature, you should still value life.
By the way, my personal opinion is that abortion is disgusting and I would never suggest it to anyone; however, when it comes to rights, my personal feelings about a situation shouldn't get in the way of the debate.
Sorry, but you can't debate it without some kind of moral judgment on the value of life, and that means invoking religion even if you're an atheist.
Might be better off arguing about whether or not it's moral to eat vegetables or for your very blood to eliminate pathogens.
/pol/ is instantly BTFO on any defense of abortion because approximately 10 million niglets in the US have been aborted as a result of it.
>>81362084
>>81362147
Like I said I do value life and think abortion is fucked. The problem I'm having is whether it's rational to allow someone to deny their child their organs in the case of a transplant and then turn around and allow them to abort their child.
>>81361770
Its really not. Retards on tumblr just turn it into a social justice issue.
Plus you don't want rapebabies running around.
>>81361770
Nothing wrong with it, I simply don't agree that my taxes should pay for a woman's bad decision.
Don't get me wrong, the suction of the fetus is horrid, but an unwanted baby will only increase in the struggles for the woman and society in general.
>>81362448
No it's not rational, denying an organ transplant is different from actually killing somebody.
>>81361770
because it's the woman's fault the fetus is dependent on her.
the hole son's liver argument is valid since you did not cause it. if you damaged his liver on the other hand, it would be logical to demand you help him.
>>81362448
In law, there's such a thing as intent. If there's blood on your hands, it could be anywhere from negligence to murder depending on why you did what you did. In addition to whether or not you consider a fetus to be equal to a human, you'd have to ask whether you're acting to save a life or end it.
Does lack of organ donation count as murder more than forcibly terminating a fetus does?
>>81362611
If that's why your'e against it, then you're extra stupid.
Your taxes will pay for her gibsmedats and a few years in the future for all the expenses incurred by incarcerating her son or paying gibsmedats for her pregnant daughter.
Abortion is bad when the parents' average IQ exceed 100
>>81361770
My only argument for why abortion is wrong is that you are hurting those who wrongly believe in souls and/or want a maximum number of people to be born.
>>81363321
I think you're going too far in putting money above life. That's what what the nigger who robs you at gunpoint does. That's the message in the good movie Soylent Green.
It's also what Obamacare does by having a computer evaluate the worth of your life vs. the cost of keeping you alive. It's next-level Jewish Communistic USSR stuff.
>>81361770
Personally I think it's wrong because I value human life. If it can't last until birth, or dies of SIDS or something, well that's just unfortunate. But give the kid a chance unless you know it will kill the mother if she carries to term or something is terribly wrong.
Usually people try to counter me with "It's not a person yet." To which my thoughts on it are "Would you eat an abortion then? Why the fuck not, if you think it's not people?" If they would, fuck em, cannibals are shit people with shit opinions. Being a real human isn't something you magically acquire at an arbitrary age, no matter if it's when you're born, when you become self-aware, when you've developed the ability to use abstract thought or the ability to reason, it's in your DNA.
>>81362611
>I simply don't agree that my taxes should pay for a woman's bad decision
Then you should be against them having their children, then.
>>81361770
Our abortion rate is absolutely disgusting. Combine that with the Millennial mindset of "No kids, no permanent housing" and we are effectively killing off the next generation.
That's what's wrong with it.
If your argument against murder is "it is your legal right", I will add you to my "consequences of atheism" list.
>>81365289
Are our abortion rates really that high? I thought that number was inflated thanks to how much blacks have abortions
>>81361770
Killing an unborn child is technically murder.
Plus forcing medical staff to kill babies is fucked up.
>>81362426
The corresponding drop in crime rates, though.
/pol/ loves crime, it gives us reason to bitch
>>81364331
>anon admits he'd willingly eat shit
>>81365638
Yeah, black abortions still take the cake, but all the free-loving college girls are certainly not helping.
>>81365638
It's hurting white people too.
anti-abortion means pro-nigger
christcuck spook preachers fuck off
>>81365644
Now think of it. Why wouldn't said medical staff just quit?
Oh, right, because then they wouldn't get money. So they are forced to abandon their morals and act as slaves to the money masters instead. If a doctor takes an oath and he deems it moral to do that then that's one thing. Not being allowed to nope out of what you do not deem to be moral, even without taking an oath, is different.
>>81365989
Dude we give niggers abortions for free. Of course they're going to abuse free shit. And then we pay them to go on welfare if they crank out more babies.
MONI MONI MONI
>>81361770
Slide.
>>81362480
This.
>>81366173
>state-funded abortions for niggers
what's wrong with that?
just abolish the fucking welfare then
also give tax deductions to families with both working parents, so that it won't be niggers receiving the benefits
>>81361770
Because abortion is murder of the unborn, and murder is wrong.
>>81361770
The reason why it's different is because the mother CHOSE to have sex. She willingly made the decision to engage in sexual intercourse even knowing that pregnancy was a potential consequence.
In accepting that fact and making that choice, she assumes a certain level of responsibility.
Additionally, if the mother's life is in danger than the argument in favor of an abortion is strengthened, because killing the fetus could be "self defense"
>>81366633
I swear to fucking god these christcucks are the original SJWs
deport all the slims before you can worry about outlawing abortion
>>81361770
You're making a false equivalence.
I won't say abortion is wrong, but I recognize that it's a form of eugenics and that it is a human life being killed.
>>81366773
I'm not Christian or even religious.
>>81361770
It should only be allowed in rape situations. Otherwise, nigger, you gave consent, meaning you should be ready to take responsibility to any complications that may arise, such as an unwanted pregnancy due to improper or failed use of contraceptives
>>81366408
State funded means I'm funding it, and I don't care for eugenics. At least if it's privately run then people can chose whether or not to pay for it.
But the scary part is most people don't even know they're paying for abortions when they fund certain foundations. Why not just advertise it? Why hide it? Why trick people into it? You always have to be suspicious around liars.
>>81366773
>"murdering people is morally wrong"
>HAHHA WOW WHAT A FUCKING SJW
Are you retarded?
>>81367003
>niggers
>muslims
>people
you cucks are the reason the US is 60% white
>>81367083
>He thinks Muslims have abortions.
>>81367083
No, the Jews on the top that trick us into it and force it on us are the reason.
>>81366984
how the fuck will eugenics ever be profitable you utter moron?
how will science be profitable?
how will roads ever be profitable?
fucking christ neck yourself lolbert faggot and just become natsoc already
>>81367083
Awww, you are retarded.
No one said anything about blacks and Muslims.
You do realize that white babies get aborted too, right?
Even if you believe that blacks and Muslims arnt people, there are still hundreds of thousands of white babies that are murdered.
>>81361770
Nothing. My mom had 2 abortions when she was young and stupid. If she hadn't have had them, she would have introduced 2 fuck-ups into a shitty life instead of marrying and having 3 children that actually contribute to society.
>>81367306
>profit
>profit
>profit
Thanks for making my point, Jew.
They can all be made profitable if they're implemented correctly. What we have now is a rigged system that profits off of tricking dupes into murdering each other. It's the same thing with war and terrorism.
>>81361770
Because people have abortions so thry don't have to raise their children.
1-2% of abortions are a result of rape or incest, the rest are to prevent inconvenience. Over a million are performed annually in the United States and the Democrats fight for abortion rights for women.
>>81367386
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-25/american-babies-are-no-longer-mostly-non-hispanic-white
>>81367682
how will privately ran eugenics be possible to run if not by being profitable? kill yourself braindead nigger
>>81367866
By the government giving cartel powers and raping the tax payer for tax-free status, duh.
In current societies abortion is fine.
In a healthy one it is not.
>>81367866
>bloomberg
>>81367866
That link has nothing to do with your argument.
Additionally- are you saying that it is morally GOOD to kill some white babies as long as the majority of the babies being killed are not white? Really?
>>81362426
This. But the lack of Catholic Hispanic abortions compared to white ones has fucked them
>>81361770
The species of that life-form is homo sapiens since conception
You are not allowed to murder another member of your species if they are not a threat to you
>>81368175
it has everything to do with my argument
more non-whites are being born now than whites, and non-whites abortions are performed disproportionately on non-whites
therefore, abortions curb the birth rates in favour of white children
>>81361770
>>81368357
>and non-whites abortions are performed disproportionately on non-whites
and abortions are performed disproportionately on non-whites*
>>81361770
Abortion is totally fine, as long as it is being done by niggers and sand niggers
>>81368357
Except when Muslims and Christian Africans don't get one.
>>81368586
the solution is to deport them, then
but then faggots like this christcuck preaches we are """""""""brothers""""""""" with sand nigger
>>81368789
Or we could ban abortion, and thus not need migrants to begin with.
>>81368378
>>81364331
Except it's not money against lives, it's lives against lives. Money is just the unit of accounting.
If it costs 30,000 hues to save a life and 1,000 hue a year to incarcerate a monkey, any monkey that we don't need to jail for 30 years means another life saved*
So even if you consider abortion murder, there's still a net 0 lives lost.
*Of course money allocation is not perfect, but that's the idea.
>>81368901
didn't really help in the american south, where niggers are outbreeding the whites
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_African-American_population
There's nothing complicated about it at its core. If you consider it to be a living human at a particular point in pregnancy, then aborting at any point beyond that is murder. Even most pro-abortion individuals acknowledge that there's a point where it becomes murder, the question is really just where that point is. If you became pregnant as a result of consensual sex, there's the "assumption of risk" element, in which case you have to be held responsible for your actions.
>Say your son's liver is failing. Without your body (or someone else's), they will die. It is your legal right to refuse to give your son a piece of your liver to save their lives, even if it will not harm you long term in any way.
The fundamental difference is that the life in your example will end as a result of you living your life as normal, which is your right to do. In the case of pregnancy, continuing to go about your life as normal will result in the child being born, not dying. You have to go out of your way to kill it.
>>81369018
meant to quote>>81363800
>>81368357
But this is a question of morality.
Obviously abortion is beneficial economically and socially.
But morally, it is wrong to kill those white babies.
Additionally, it isnt justifiable. Who cares about the numbers game? The issue with race in America is culture based, not race,based. The multiculturalism is the cause of conflict.
>>81369094
Abortion is not banned in the US, and the black population is shrinking in the US. The Hispanic, Mormon and Evangelical populations are the ones doing all the growing.
>>81361770
Abortion is an easy way for women to rid themselves of their personal responsibilities.
>>81369120
if you get in a car accident thats your fault, you arent required by law to give blood/organs/w/e to the schmuck on the other side of the accident. im pro-choice and obviously abortion is killing of a fetus, that's entirely up to the person that its inside.
>>81369018
That's still a valuation of money over life, even if it's practical. I would rather look in to avoiding the monkey and the abortion.
Like this guy here says >>81368789
They don't belong in a first world country where we don't need eugenics to keep the population of criminals in check. Kind of like how we should not be spending money to fund overpopulation in Africa when they would just be a comparatively few jungle people doing jungle people things if we left them alone to do as they please instead.
abortion and gun violence are the only means of black population control. how is this not evident?
The supreme court basically ruled that "we don't really know where to draw the line between bunch of cells and human beings, but we're going to just go ahead and say that the first trimester is the former and for the sake of sagacity, we'll assume the rest is the latter."
I think that's reasonable from a jurisprudence perspective, but there's still room for shame in the equation. Because abortion should really be a last resort to encourage women to seek all other options.
>>81366030
People refuse to perform abortions all the time.
What are you on about?
>>81369560
Gun violence is still wrong, niggers staying alive is just worse.
>>81369806
See, that's how reasonable people act. That ruling isn't entirely consistent with my personal beliefs, but the law (and least of all if it has to be escalated all the way to the Supreme Court) is only needed when reasonable people can't act in a way that doesn't require state courts to adjudicate. At least with that particular ruling, you can kind of hand wave it away as not being too terribly horrific in the same way you wouldn't expect to go to hell for jerking off. The problem is abusing the option.
>>81370049
I was just responding to the claims made in the post I was responding to. But it's an important point. Kind of like when a nurse's union or whatever used collective bargaining power to not all get fired for not taking the H1N1 vaccine when they decided it wasn't a good idea and the state shouldn't be overreaching for power like that.
>>81369340
>a question of morality
fuck off nigger lover
What if you learned that your mother almost aborted you? would you be okay with it? Of course not, the thought that your mom thought about denying you the life you have now would sicken you.
But then you'll realize that if your life is that important to you, why isn't the potential life of someone else? Why is it okay to deny someone a chance to be alive over being nothing no matter how fucked up life may be.
>>81371976
My Grandparents apparently wanted my Mother to abort me, which is why my Mum did not speak to them for the first 12 years of my life.
>>81372156
Shit man that sucks... Why'd they want her to abort you? (if you don't mind me asking)
>>81372314
She was 17 when she got pregnant.
>>81372366
16*, corrected.
>>81372366
>>81372472
Brutal. When at least you got dubs if that's any conciliation.
>>81361770
I don't care if it's moral or not. I just want to have the option in case one day i need it.
>>81361770
It's potential murder, so it's wrong.
>>81372663
Jesus not even principled, just self interested
>>81361770
A question for prochoice people.
How late in a pregnancy should it be too late for an abortion?
>>81372978
Murdering for self interest is all abortion is.
>>81369505
Stop pretending to be retarded.
>>81361770
There's no such thing as "wrong." We're all just here right now.
That aside, unwanted children shouldn't be born. We're overpopulated as it is. People have this attitude like, "Well, you should have thought about that before. Too late now, you have to have it." Treating childbirth like some kind of punishment for sex seems sorely misguided to me. Hooray, the irresponsible teens have to pay for their mistake, but what about the kid? Too bad for the kid, too? If your sense of justice is fulfilled by a child being born to parents who didn't want it, maybe your sense of justice is more self-righteous than anything.
All that said, I don't place a very high value on human life. People are a dime a dozen because they're so easy to make. People just... happen, and then they proceed to contribute to this big, stupid, fucked up, psychotic thing we call "the world" that itself doesn't really mean anything. It's like a little play taking place in a tiny little box in an empty room. It could be destroyed in an instant and the universe wouldn't give a shit.
Fuck everything.
>>81373221
I know but not even veiling it in "the science proves it's not a life yet" argument. Like they're wrong about the morality but I don't think people are malicious when they're ignorant like that.
>>81362147
Implying moral values have anything to do with religion.
Agnostic here. Used to be pro choice. Then I had a kid.
Abortion is murder, it doesn't matter what your moral values are.
As for your questions about donating organs and abortion OP, I as a person have the right to refuse to give up my organs. That doesn't mean that a woman has the right to abort the living being that she decided to create inside of her. I pray that there is a god. And I hope that God is fucking savage. He will suck pro lifers through a vacuum crushing their bodies for all of eternity.
>>81373536
>but what about the kid? Too bad for the kid, too?
Yes, because being murdered is what every child wants of course.
>>81372978
And? What makes you think human life is all that important? And what if the baby is autistic? Or what if he suffers from some criplling disease? That is why i think abortion should be legal. I even think abortion should be encouraged in such cases. Call it my eugenics little ideas
> principled
Are you 13? Principles and morals are nothing. Just ideas people created to keep the stupid pacified. What matters is who wins.
>>81361770
Overpopulation OP. Abortion is great
>>81373692
>Agnostic here
>muh special snowflake
So what is agnostic exactly?
I'm a christian too...
There is one major difference between abortion and murder, and it is BREATH... Also a CONCIOUSNESS...
I would allow abortion until 3rd month of gravidity, before brain signal and heart-beat starts.
It is absolutelly necessary to allow Postinor pills and condoms. They work BEFORE life starts by merging sperm and egg and are 100% peaceful.
Specially MUST be allowed abortion for africans. Every mother after 4th or 5th living child should be sterilised.
It is necessary to adapt birth rate to live expectancy.
Abortion is unnatural (may be considered -- some women use it very naturally), medicine and peace are unnatural too. If we want to have a medicine and peace, we must use birth control accordingly.
Otherwise helping rescue 7-9 children per 1 mother is crime against humanity (unless it is a rare exception)...
We are obliged to preserve this nice planet to our children in a livable condition, being here just guests in the house...
And also consider - if 30-40% of gravidities end with spontaneous (or home-done) abortion, adding few more percent artificially (safely medically) is not much difference...
>>81374017
And also to consider:
We need not preserve EVERY life.
We need to preserve ALL future life, all following generations, and that requires responsibility.
>>81373900
atheist but pussy
>>81366921
Why shouldn't it be legal when it's not rape? Yes, "it's her fault, etc", but why is itwrong?
>>81366740
You prefer crime to "killing" a mindless bunch of cells
>>81373725
What makes human life important is that I value my life, therefor all other human life (including the unborn) should be held to that same standard.
Your in utero permutation of eugenics I agree is practical but I don't see it as right to deny someone life based on problems the baby might have.
>>81366984
Paying for abortions is cheaper for society than paying for unwanted children, burgerfat.
>>81373900
There probably is a god, but all of the religions we believe in are fucking regarded.
>>81374288
Sure
>>81367003
A mindless bunch of cells isn't a person, amerifat.
>>81374543
Not getting fat on burgers is cheaper than raising children in a wholesome, productive society, mexiwall.
>>81374658
You should read GEB
>>81374314
Because when democratically elected representatives refuse to allocate funding for planned parenthood and democrats in the senate then refuse to pass the spending bill, only the republicans in the house get blamed for shutting down the government. So democratic whores demand that society pays for their contraception, and any dissent will lead to media outlets spreading bullshit about "those ebil rethuglicans". I'm not against abortion, but I just don't want to pay for another person's fuckup.
>>81374326
>>81374658
Not sure why you felt the need to respond to me twice, but let me clarify.
That "bunch of cells" is a "bunch of human cells", just like you and me. We're all just a "bunch of cells" but we have human DNA, which means that we are protected by certain rights.
As for the "mindless" thing- are you arguing that awareness, sentience, and mindfulness is what makes someone "human"? If so, then what about people who have mental illnesses? Are they less "human"? Are people who are less intellegent also less "human"? You can't gauge how much of a person someone is by their mental state.
If that's too hard for you to understand then try to understand this:
At the point of fertilization, that zygote is constantly growing and developing into more and more of a person. At that point, the zygote has potential associated with it. It is morally wrong for us to extinguish that potential, whatever it may be. It is not morally correct to determine whether another person's life is worth living for them.
>>81373695
Owned.
>>81374959
If it's a legitimate fuckup, I don't mind paying a fraction of a cent for it. But how do you carry a child for 9 months (or even 2-3 years as some of these rabbis propose) before saying "oh shit what how did I not notice I was pregnant?"
>>81361770
Abortion is not wrong. It's a woman's personal choice to have an abortion, and nobody should try to change somebody else's personal choice.
>>81375351
So if I want to kill you, then it's A-Ok because that's my "personal choice", and "nobody should try to change somebody else's personal choice"?
>>81374684
o.k...
>>81374438
>is that I value my life
me too
>therefor all other human life
So you value all life? Even nigger one? Are you a hippie?
>it as right to deny someone life based on problems the baby might have.
Because the autists are completely happy that they actually born. Just ask half of /pol/.
>>81374589
>There probably is a god
According to?
So you are a theist?
>>81361770
Tbh there should be a law in place stating that if either mother or father want the child, then the woman should be forced to get an abortion. Equal rights.
Forcing a man in to a situation he doesn't want is awful.
>>81375556
Call me a theist if you want, I'm not religious and I'm not an atheist so I don't give a fuck.
I personally believe that God is the force that drives the universe. I don't think of God as an omnipotent being. God is more of a force from which existence stems from.
>>81375757
The man made the choice to sleep with the woman and risk pregnancy.
You know what is more awful than forcing a man (or woman) in to a situation he doesn't want? Killing an innocent fetus because the parents were too stupid to control their primal urges
>>81375521
You're missing the point. Aborting a fetus is fine, because that is not a born human being, especially if the abortion in done in the first 2-3 months of pregnancy.
>>81363146
this pretty much
people can choose not to be organ donors and there is no negative repercussion of that, considering how many other thousands of people are. OP's argument is pretty flawed because it assumes that the kids dad is the only human on the planet with a liver.
killing an unborn child for any purpose other than to avoid a stillborn, the mother dying in birth, or both dying in birth (which how would you even predict) is nothing less than murder.
>>81374959
> but I just don't want to pay for another person's fuckup.
And since birth control - mainly of africans and of damaged or low-brain people - is in the interest of society, it should be fully paid for from health insurance or by government,
there should not be a class threshold not allowing abortion to low-class or undesired people. And also because taking care for low-income adolescent and adult would be more expensive, than subsiding the abortion.
Opposite is true in cases, when there are too few people or it is of rare specie and reproducing is desired.
It's same, as here car-drivers asked, why from their taxes city gives subsidies for public transport tickets... Why? So that poor people use public transport and do not jam all streets. The car-drivers this way pay for passable streets by dotating poor-people use other transport means...
>>81376258
It is a human being, just an unborn one.
>>81375171
>Vanishing twins are a bunch of humans cells too, your arm is a bunch of human cells too, we can create organs that are a bunch of human cells too, are they human? No, that's right.
>As for the "mindless" thing- are you arguing that awareness, sentience, and mindfulness is what makes someone "human"?
Yes. People with mental illnesses are not mindless, they are sick.
If we cut your arms, your legs, your torso, etc. But keep your head alive you would still be human, wouldn't you?
>It is morally wrong for us to extinguish that potential.
Then you have to prohibit masturbation and death penalty. Potential is meaningless, something is or is not. Goddamn deontological people.
>>81376137
>>81375757
Though I do agree with you that technically it is unfair to force a man in to a situation without a way out when the woman does have that option.
The men should just not have to pay child support- but forcing a woman to go through an abortion if she wants to keep the child that's inside of her is cruel.
It's also cruel for a woman to kill the child if the man wants to keep it, which is allowed.
>>81374796
Give me your argument. I can't possibly read the entire book right now.
>>81376047
religious != theist
>I personally believe that God is the force that drives the universe.
So you are a theist. Check the definition of theist. This fucking american teenagers are so fucking dumb
>>81361770
Its unconstitutional. You cannot deprive someone of life without due process. So abortion would be okay if it was handled by judges or approved by a jury
Abortion is wrong because those babies could have been raised and trained to retake Constantinople.
>>81376258
When does the baby become a "human being". It has human DNA from the point of fertilization, right?
Is it only a human after its moved past the vaginal opening and been "birthed"?
If you're looking to draw a line on when a "human life is formed", scientifically it is at the point of fertilization.
You can disagree with me if you have a different opinion, but what I'm telling you is what has been scientifically agreed upon by people who have devoted their lives to determining these answers
>>81376586
So in america babies are citizens before being born?
Also, in a __civilised__ country, there is a chance of using a BabyBox...
If the mother decides, she can discharge the baby anonymously in the medical institution. They take care of an adoption.
It's much safer and more humane than any kind of murder... !
>>81376575
Sure, I'm a theist. Does that make you feel better? God, what the fuck does this have to do with abortion?
>>81376703
At least abortion, compared to murder, is tolerated by society.
every life has begun at fertilization
chromosomes combine to start the process
thats when you began and will continue if not aborted or miscarriaged. there is no gray line
>>81376366
You are not killing a being or creating life by creating those cells or destroying them.
Masturbation is not the same as a zygote. Sleep cells do not have all the chromosomes needed for human DNA, so life has not technically started at that point. Life begins once the sperm and the egg cell fuse and GROWTH takes place.
Look Mexico, I don't know what kind of jacked up education you got but I am literally a science major at a university and the stuff that I'm telling you is highschool level biology.
Look this stuff up and educate yourself so your opinion holds weight
For the foreseeable future, Abortion is a necessary evil. It really should be though with contraceptives and birth control so easily accessible. But that is precisely why it is necessary: It's for lazy subhumans and the poor. Without them Black's and liberals would breed more and America would turn into a overpopulated 3rd world shithole like India. Ideally the best compromise would be forced sterilization and strictly regulated breeding ala Dystopian fiction, but that'd probably cost too much to implement and never pass Congress.
In general, any women who uses Abortion as a means of birth control is a pure degenerate. But that's good, because it ensures that perhaps they'll be killed/raped to death before they decide to actually breed, ensuring they do not bring a tormented soul into existence who at best will be psychologically damaged and emotionally stunted and a drain on society. At worst she'll make 3 new little degenerates who spread her legacy far after she is gone.
Also late term abortions is murder, plain and simple, and any doctors/dindus who perform such unholy rituals should be hanged.
>>81376993
>Does that make you feel better?
It kinda of does, specially becuase you are being a insuferable faggot
>God, what the fuck does this have to do with abortion?
Nothing, but there is nothing else to be discussed in abortion. It's a dead subject that was aready setled a long time ago. Also there is no way to defend it other then resorting to muh feelz or muh christianity.
>>81377016
Yes, it is tolerated by society because it is beneficial to society.
If abortion was illegal, there would be a huge drain on the economy. Because of abortion, Single mothers needing constant financial assistance and raising criminals are instead able to focus on their careers and eventually have a stable family at a later age.
I'm not arguing that abortion isn't beneficial to society, only that it's morally wrong.
If people learned to control their urges, use protection effectively, and hold themselves accountable for their decisions, abortion would not happen in such large numbers.
>>81376586
Prove it is life. There is no constitutional definition so your point falls flat.
>>81377058
Isn't it amazing that in spite of decades of all this porn and sex ed everywhere there are still people are struggling with basic concepts on par with "sex makes babies?"
>>81377260
I was just trying to convey to you that there is no religion that I believe in. I don't actually believe that there is a god, in the sense that Christians think there is. I do not deny that there could be a god though.
The abortion argument isn't dead, people still get abortions every day. This means that people don't understand the subject.
>>81361770
I support the post-natal abortion tbph
The planet is too small to contain all the pleb
>>81377058
>You are not killing a being or creating life by creating those cells or destroying them.
You are an imbecile if you think that destroying a vanishing twin is not the same than destroying a mindless embryo.
>Masturbation is not the same as a zygote. Sleep cells do not have all the chromosomes needed for human DNA, so life has not technically started at that point.
Your point was that zygotes are pure potential, spermatozoons are potential too.
>Life begins once the sperm and the egg cell fuse and GROWTH takes place.
Hahahahahaha, such lack of consistency. You are quite funny, burgeranon.
>Look Mexico, I don't know what kind of jacked up education you got but I am literally a science major at a university and the stuff that I'm telling you is highschool level biology.
Le 'ld fallacy from authority.
There are some geologists that believe in the young Earth hypothesis, your point is?
Which major? Which university? Just curious
>>81377695
>I was just trying to convey to you that there is no religion that I believe in.
ok
> I don't actually believe that there is a god, in the sense that Christians think there is. I do not deny that there could be a god though.
So you are simply to coward to state your belieds. It's quite simple:
>I believe in a deity/deities
You are a theist
>I don't believe in a deity/deities
You are a atheist
Choose.
>This means that people don't understand the subject.
What is there to understand?
>>81361770
You're appealing to the law and not arguing for what is right and wrong.
>>81361770
There is nothing wrong with abortion if the child is a genetic dead-end or is the product of rape or incest.
No woman should be forced to bear the child of a rapist or a child that will be severely retarded and incapable of continuing their bloodline
>B-B-BUT MUH MAGIC SKY NIGGER!!!
Embrace quality of life over quantity.
I have no problem euthanizing kids with profound birth defects. Up until the age of about 2, human babies have not developed the higher brain function that would make them true 'persons', they're still just fetuses but they finish their development outside the womb because human hips can't walk upright and squeeze out a developed brain at the same time. You should be able to euthanize a developmentally disabled baby up until about 18 months and it shouldn't be a source of shame. Before modern medicine, the kid would have died anyway.
>>81378369
How on earth would you need to wait 2 years and 9 months to determine there was an uh-oh abort mission problem?
Your argument obviously has no moral or ethical basis.
>>81378037
Biology major, UNC chapel hill.
You obviously don't understand the point I'm trying to make. Maybe I'm not articulating it well enough. At any rate I hope you take it upon yourself to look in to the science of this topic more through sources that articulate these ideas better than I have.
>>81361770
The question is:
At what point is the government tasked with the protection of its citizens?
We acknowledge that it has the obligation to protect them prior to birth, else killing a pregnant woman wouldn't be double homicide, and the government would have no place regulating pregnant women smoking or drinking.
But when exactly does that responsibility start? Either conception, or viability.
Those are the only two options.
But viability changes as tech improves.
>>81378113
That's the beauty of it. I'm not confined to your ahitty beliefs. I don't have to choose shit.
There might be an omnipotent being, there might not be.
There could be a "force" that created the universe, the universe could have been created randomly.
I'm right in the middle of not believing in any one thing, but I lean towards an unintelligent force that the universe radiates/radiated from.
Just because your small mind can't grasp the concept doesn't mean that you have to get all butthurt.
>>81378264
This is an argument for eugenics, isn't it? Would you also support the government (and thus people) paying for programs to screen fetuses to find genetic dead-ends?
>>81368213
A lot of inner city Hispanics get corrupted by Mexican gangs (MS13), but most Hispanics on the border are against such things. LA has ruined our reputation as a peaceful race, but the RGV (Hispanic Central in Texas) has less crime than any Niggerland in Texas.
Mexicans and black people are the niggers of the Hispanics, corrupting them.
>>81378685
>Biology major.
>Believing that embryos without a developed nervous system are human beings.
It would be as if i opposed the law of supply and demand, ha. You must be a freshman.
>At any rate I hope you take it upon yourself to look in to the science of this topic more through sources that articulate these ideas better than I have.
I already have, thank you very much. May the magic sky nigger take good care of you.
Abortion is wrong once the fetus starts showing signs of vital organs functioning.
>>81378567
There are plenty of neurological disorders you cannot detect (or typically are not detected) until birth. Paralysis, blindness, profound muscular dystrophy, Down Syndrome, etc
Up to about 2 years old babies do not even have a sense of self, they do not even have a developed sense of where their own bodies are in relation to the world around them or where sources of pain are coming from (children under 2 burn themselves and fail to draw away from pain stimuli). There's no 'human' to preserve until it develops the ability understand itself as a person. A newborn kitten has more right to live than a 1-year-old human, the kitten at least has a developed neocortex.
Morality and ethics are relative to the goals of a society, and I say it's entirely within the goals of our society where couples choose to support on average 2.1-2.2 kids that they not be required to use their life and resources to care for a baby that will never develop into a functioning adult, let them have a do-over.
>>81379323
>Mexicans and black people are the niggers of the Hispanics, corrupting them.
Burger, please.
Centroamericans are the niggers of hispanics.
Southerners are the niggers of mexicans.
>>81379544
Yeah, nah, back to the oven with you. It's not too late according to my feelings.
>>81361770
>Why is abortion wrong?
Because it is murder and blood sacrifice. Pro-abortion degenerates will learn the hard way.
>>81361770
In your argument, the difference is this:
Man donating part of liver to his son. That requires a surgical process. Man has to use knowledge and technology to save the son. The natural course of events would be that the son dies.
In the case of abortion though, the doctors are intervening in the natural process in order to kill the baby. The natural state of things would be that the child grows in the womb and is born. The woman is not "donating" her body.
Personally I'm not sure I believe that a soul enters someones body. I want to be a traditional christian but struggle to actually believe some of that stuff
But I think it is important to value all human life (as long as it is white)
>>81377358
>>81376717
It is life you idiot, the question is if it should encompass the rights of the same organism that pops out o a vagina a mere few months later. I would imagine whenever a mother says the babies kicking you say "Quit lying bitch that thing in there isn't alive". Kill yourselves
>>81361770
I'm not going to say it's always wrong, if the fetus endangers the life of its mother I think that the life of the fully developed adult human should take precedence over that of the undeveloped/already dying human. In cases of rape I don't think its moral to force a woman to bear her rapists child either, that would be forcing a conscious human capable of exercising agency to do something which risks their physical and psychological health for the sake of an undeveloped potential person incapable of any agency, spawned by an act of coercion or physical violence.
On the other hand, I don't think that abortion should be advocated for, while I don't think that the undeveloped human's life is as valuable as the fully developed human's life, I also don't think such a procedure (which will end one of these lives) should be taken lightly or used without good reasoning. Shit like the women who have abortions just because they can is moderately disgusting and people who flagrantly abort multiple children seem to lack empathy.
At the end of the day, I agree that abortion should be legal especially in cases of potential harm to the mother or rape, however I think that a greater focus on contraception (especially for men, as women already have a plethora of contraceptive options) would prevent the need for so many abortions in the first place. I don't think abortion is a good thing, in the same way that I don't think locking humans in a metal cage is a good thing, but in a small number of cases such action may be necessary.
>>81379059
>That's the beauty of it. I'm not confined to your ahitty beliefs. I don't have to choose shit.
Thats edgy. Muh i'm not like all the others.
>There might be an omnipotent being, there might not be.
True. But atheism means that you don't BELIEVE in a deity. If he exists or not it's other question
>Just because your small mind can't grasp the concept doesn't mean that you have to get all butthurt.
>calling me small minded
>doesn't know what atheism is
>he is a free spirit, higher thinker becasue he calls himself agnostic
lel, what a kiddo
>>81363800
>It's also what Obamacare does by having a computer evaluate the worth of your life vs. the cost of keeping you alive. It's next-level Jewish Communistic USSR stuff.
The insurance companies have already been doing that for decades by denying claims, holding up payments, fucking over the doctors, waiting for patients to die to avoid pay for high cost end-of-life care. Theirs were
Death Panels for Greater Profits.
>>81383118
>MUH FEE FEES!!!!!!!!!!
>WHY DO PEOPLE DO STUFF THAT HURTS MUH FEE FEEZ!!!!! WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
>>81365644
>Killing an unborn child is technically murder.
It's technically not.
The unborn senior citizen is not a living being yet so it can't really be "killed".
Oh fuck, here we go with the bullshit about people pretending to give a fuck about an unborn kid again.
>>81366740
>The reason why it's different is because the mother CHOSE to have sex. She willingly made the decision to engage in sexual intercourse even knowing that pregnancy was a potential consequence.
The man didn't make any choices there? None at all? Have you been told about the birds and the bees yet? I don't want to spoil it, but it takes two to Tango.
>>81385462
You know, libruls are pro abortion, therefore, /pol/tards will have to be against abortion
>>81385243
And now we've gone from private cartel death panels to government mandated monopoly death panels.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/10/why-i-hope-to-die-at-75/379329/
This Jew, brother of faggot bathhouse-visiting dance-major former Obama White House chief of staff Rahm, both sons of their famous bus-bomber terrorist Israeli father, was one of the principle architects of it. And not the only Jewish literally "czar" filth that pushed this anti-constitutional death legislation.
#KillKikesNotChildren
>>81366894
>but I recognize that it's a form of eugenics
No, fetal termination is a woman's right to self-determination.
Eugenics is a government program where women are stripped of their right to decide for themselves whether or not they will bear children.
>and that it is a human life being killed.
The fetus is not a living being until it is born, so nothing is being "killed".
>>81367163
>He thinks Muslims have abortions.
Muslims allow abortions
>>81367386
>babies that are murdered.
It's against the law to murder babies and abortion is legal, so either you're lying that they're babies or you're lying that they're being murdered.
Or both.
>>81361770
I think it is not fair to deny life to anything
but looking at our world in its state Im getting jelous of the fetuses getting aborted
>>81373058
>How late in a pregnancy should it be too late for an abortion?
If you raise boys, there will be many times you will consider 17 years to be very latest for an abortion.
>>81374017
>Abortion is unnatural
Miscarriage is natural. It is abortion by another name.
>>81385857
>And now we've gone from private cartel death panels to government mandated monopoly death panels.
Not really. Can you provide even 1 example where the government instructed a doctor to pull the plug on a patient?
There are dozens of examples where the insurance companies deliberately did.
>>81387661
Personally and provably? No. But that's where it's going. The way these things work is to set up the conditions to get your end result without having a chain of evidence so you can go clean without even having to wash your hands.
Now, one of the methods is dehydration. I didn't have the heart to tell my family about this when it happened, but we all agreed that it was time to let it go. But that is one especially bad way to go, as evidenced by the agitation of the body after the relative sedation provided by the strokes or whatever it was.
Read up on what kind of people are running our government. Do not think for a moment they aren't ruthless satanic murderers.
>>81361770
If u want to go "full science" we are carbon bonds so the "living human being" and "human life" memes makes no sense then we can apply true evolution aaaaand (many ands) hello pre human rights Europe.
And since life is just matter then i can travel to a 3rd world country get rid of someone and save my kids or abandon them because i can have more childs cause they are basically weak apes with a good brain and a failing liver which is nothing more than a genetic failure (why would you love a weakling when u can get better offsprings to perpetuate our species?)
Have u seen the little elephant that was rejected by it´s mother? people were sad (even pro abortion "humans") but if that female elephant had the ability to dispose of the little one when he/she was developing in her womb.........
We must value life, wether it was evolution or a god it wasn´t easy to create it, just like at our solar system sht just look at us... one thinking ape related to a banana while billions of species evolved in a different way.
Im not a fcking vegan
>>81388156
>Personally and provably? No. But that's where it's going. The way these things work is to set up the conditions to get your end result without having a chain of evidence so you can go clean without even having to wash your hands.
Your argument is like a slippery slope with a conspiracy theory twist. Neato, but not really convincing.
>Read up on what kind of people are running our government.
{{{Conspiracy Theory Intensifies}}}
>Do not think for a moment they aren't ruthless satanic murderers.
Welp, is there even a shred of credible evidence? None? Not any at all?
Dude I get it. Sometimes we fall for a lie and we don't want to be all alone so we tell other people the lie and they fall for it too and we feel better because they're idiots like we are and now we're not so alone anymore.
>>81392112
>slippery slope
You can stand on the brakes and you can have your ABS and a million airbags, but once you slide down, there's nothing you can do about it.
That's a logical, science-proven fact, jack.
>>81385731
Yes thats why he suffers the consequences of being fucked by child support
>>81361770
I think the secular reason is people think it may just be really gross and scary that somebody could just easily think "oh ill get an abortion" without even an afterthought as to what they're actually doing, to preserve the control of their personal destiny.
Ie, using abortion as a de-facto contraceptive.
...Now *I* support this but I guess other people belong to sheep religions rather than a wolf religion.
>>81388156
>satanic
BTW the kek thing isn't just fags that got bored with lel, it's fag satanists and their ignorant tools who want pain and suffering because they're pathetic shitbags. Don't buy in, watch https://youtu.be/XXRC4TfmHEs?t=15m and make up your own mind. Also look into Manly P Hall's freemason plan for 3 world wars, with the 3rd being to instigate war between islam and christianity.
>>81394016
No fright bro. I know where kek is coming from.
I'm not supposed to say what pre-kek things, but that's part of the deal for extra protection against taking harm from certain kinds of actions.
>Is the baby property of the mother?
No
>Is the baby an organ, thus PART of the mother?
No
Mother has no right to murder the baby
>inb4 "it's not alive yet"
Abortion is amazing, do you know how many black women get abortions and prevent crime before it's even born?
>>81393106
>Yes thats why he suffers the consequences of being fucked by child support
Not with abortion. Abortion keeps deadbeats from being dads.
>>81394686
>Is the baby property of the mother? No
A fetus cannot own property but the woman that contains it can.
>Is the baby an organ, thus PART of the mother? No
A fetus is biologically designed to be integrated and sealed into the woman's flesh until it is born.
>Mother has no right to murder the baby
That would be illegal.
Abortion is not illegal. A woman does have a right to decide for herself if she will bear a child or not.
If your claim is that an embryo is its own living breathing human being, then please prove your claim.
>>81394562
Thanks for exposing the satanists.
>>81398446
I deserve no thanks. There are way more people out there exposing Satanists better than I ever will.
It's surprisingly easy to go against them. You will be granted protection.
>>81385307
No, its more like I get agitated of people using their feelings of "ITS A WOMAN RIGHT" to shit on a right given to everyone in this country. I'm sorry I'm passionate about what my ancestors fought for, they're smiling upon me Imperial can you say the same?
