Please give me the Islamic definition of innocent
>>81061059
Fuck this nonsense. Fuck you OP.
Vive la France
>>81061059
>Ignoring the next verse
>>81061059
Friendly reminder that the koran specifically states infidels aren't innocent.
>>81061059
>innocent = muslim
>not muslim = not innocent
you don't get it do you?
>>81061059
To bad that anyone who is not a Muslim is not an innocent.
>>81061222
It's right in same verse + 5:33 which orders to rip limbs off those who defy Islam. That maymay is partial quote.
i don't see radical presbyterians or buddhists killing this many people
>>81061059
They don't consider us innocent.
>>81061059
>Implying "innocent" means the same thing to Muslims as it does to everyone else.
>>81061059
>No true Scotsman
Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.
5:32
Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment
5:33
>>81061539
Muslim here, I consider you innocent. So do my niggas so you are proven wrong, what have you to say now?
>>81061777
thats not a real logical falacy, Ivan
>>81061955
That what muslims think doesn't matter because a person at war should never take advice from his enemy.
i think muslims are unreasonable and should calm down a little
(USER WAS ARRESTED FOR THIS POST)
>>81061955
#notallmuslims
>>81061059
Islam shall end, as will the jews that flood it into our nations. You've awakened our wrath. Your worthless people shall burn as recompense.
>>81061059
Sandniggers don't consider "Infidels" innocent.
>>81061885
>those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption
There you go, that's the definition of one who is not innocent. Not just a Muslim, but a man of any religion will tell you that those who wage a war against their God and strive to corrupt the adherents are not innocent but deserving of punishment. That you don't realize this isn't unique to Islam is enough for me to think I'm wasting my time in replying to you; I wouldn't reply to an indoctrinated child usually.
>>81061955
many muslims don't?
>>81061059
kuffar aren't innocent
there you go, happy jihad
According to Islamic tradition which describes this graphically, Jesus' descent will be in the midst of wars fought by al-Mahdi (lit. "the rightly guided one"), known in Islamic eschatology as the redeemer of Islam, against al-Masīh ad-Dajjāl (the Antichrist "false messiah") and his followers.[57] Jesus will descend at the point of a white arcade, east of Damascus, dressed in yellow robes—his head anointed. He will say prayer behind al-Mahdi then join him in his war against the Dajjal. Jesus, considered as a Muslim, will abide by the Islamic teachings. Eventually, Jesus will slay the Antichrist, and then everyone who is one of the People of the Book (ahl al-kitāb, referring to Jews and Christians) will believe in him. Thus, there will be one community, that of Islam.
>Eventually, Jesus will slay the Antichrist, and then everyone who is one of the People of the Book (ahl al-kitāb, referring to Jews and Christians) will believe in him. Thus, there will be one community, that of Islam.
Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 43: Kitab-ul-`Ilm (Book of Knowledge), Hâdith Number 656:
Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until the son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you as a just ruler, he will break the cross, kill the pigs, and abolish the Jizya tax. Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it (as charitable gifts)."
—Narrated by Abu Huraira[60]
Sure sounds peaceful and moderate.
>>81061059
Innocents in Islam are only the non-heretical muslims according to your particular sect of Islam, in other words, everyone else is not an innocent, and therefore free game for raping and pillaging.
>>81061059
Good thing infidels are not seen as innocent.
>>81061059
The next verse literally states that all who are unbelievers are the worst kind of sinners and that you must cut off their heads and their fingertips.
>infidels
>innocent
babby's first koran scripture?
>>81062291
Wtf Leaf, you are not yourself. You cannot be that angry and mean. Watch some hockey, drink some syrup and feel better.
>>81061059
You need to learn Islams definition of innocent.
>implying they don't want to kill all of humanity
>>81061059
Non Muslims are not considered innocents. They're infidels.
>>81061059
Too bad you're considered guilty if you reject Islam. AKA your argument is invalid.
>innocent
but westerners are all decadent heretics who sin against allah on a daily basis. killing them is fair game.
Chapter 9 of the Qur'an, in English called "Ultimatum," is the most important concerning the issues of abrogation and jihad against unbelievers. It is the only chapter that does not begin "in the name of God, most benevolent, ever-merciful."[54] Commentators agree that Muhammad received this revelation in 631, the year before his death, when he had returned to Mecca and was at his strongest.[55] Muhammad bin Ismail al-Bukhari (810-70), compiler of one of the most authoritative collections of the hadith, said that "Ultimatum" was the last chapter revealed to Muhammad[56] although others suggest it might have been penultimate. Regardless, coming at or near the very end of Muhammad's life, "Ultimatum" trumps earlier revelations.
Because this chapter contains violent passages, it abrogates previous peaceful content. Muhsin Khan, the translator of Sahih al-Bukhari, says God revealed "Ultimatum" in order to discard restraint and to command Muslims to fight against all the pagans as well as against the People of the Book if they do not embrace Islam or until they pay religious taxes. So, at first aggressive fighting was forbidden; it later became permissible (2:190) and subsequently obligatory (9:5).[57] This "verse of the sword" abrogated, canceled, and replaced 124 verses that called for tolerance, compassion, and peace.[58]
Suyuti said that everything in the Qur'an about forgiveness and peace is abrogated by verse 9:5, which orders Muslims to fight the unbelievers and to establish God's kingdom on earth.
Quran 5:33
Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,
>>81061059
If you reject Islam, you're not innocent.
Argument destroyed.
>>81062897
According to Ibn Kathir in his commentary on Chapter 9:5, Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, the first caliph, used this and other verses to validate fighting anyone who either did not pay religious taxes to the Muslims or convert to Islam. Ibn ‘Umar Ibn al-Khattab, one of the hadith transmitters, quoted Muhammad as saying, "I have been commanded to fight the people until they testify that there is no deity worthy of worship except God and that Muhammad is the Messenger of God." He testified that Ad-Dahhak bin Muzahim, an authentic transmitter of hadiths, said that the verse of the sword "abrogated every agreement of peace between the Prophet and any idolater, every treaty, and every term." ‘Awfi cited Ibn ‘Abbas, who argued that "Ultimatum" obviated earlier peace treaties.[60] The Shafi‘i school took this as a justification for killing anyone who abandoned prayer and for fighting anyone who refused to pay increased religious minority taxes.[61]
Such interpretations resonate. Muhammad Sa‘id Ramadan al-Buti, a contemporary Al-Azhar University scholar, wrote that "the verse (9:5) does not leave any room in the mind to conjecture about what is called defensive war. This verse asserts that holy war, which is demanded in Islamic law, is not a defensive war because it could legitimately be an offensive war. That is the apex and most honorable of all holy wars. Its goal is the exaltation of the word of God, the construction of Islamic society, and the establishment of God's kingdom on earth regardless of the means. It is legal to carry on an offensive holy war."[62]
>>81061059
>REAL islam
lolwut
its nothing but bullshit wrapped up in hate used as an excuse for every stupid thing muslims do
>>81061059
ex-muslim here, this is bullshit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w66Ist_G5To
>>81061059
>what REAL Islam teaches
“This Book is not to be doubted…. As for the unbelievers, it is the same whether or not you forewarn them; they will not have faith. God has set a seal upon their hearts and ears; their sight is dimmed and grievous punishment awaits them.” Quran 2:1/2:6-2:10
“God’s curse be upon the infidels! Evil is that for which they have bartered away their souls. To deny God’s own revelation, grudging that He should reveal His bounty to whom He chooses from among His servants! They have incurred God’s most inexorable wrath. An ignominious punishment awaits the unbelievers.” Quran 2:89-2:90
“Lord…Give us victory over the unbelievers.” Quran 2:286
“Lord…give us victory over the unbelievers.” Quran 3:147
“I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers.” Quran 8:12
“Let not the unbelievers think they will ever get away. They have not the power so to do. Muster against them all the men and cavalry at your command, so that you may strike terror into the enemy of Allah and your enemy…” Quran 8:59-60
“When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them.” Quran 9:5
“Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.” Quran 9:73
“Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous.” Quran 9:123
“Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another…” Quran 5:51
“He that chooses a religion over Islam, it will not be accepted from him and in the world to come he will be one of the lost.” Quran 3:85
“Let not believers make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful – he that does this has nothing to hope for from Good – except in self-defense. God admonishes you to fear Him: for to God shall all return.” Quran 3:28
“Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Scalding water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall be lashed with rods of iron.
“Whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape from Hell, back they shall be dragged, and will be told: ‘Taste the torment of the Conflagration!'” Quran 22:19-20
“Muhammad is God’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.” Quran 48:29
“Those that deny Our revelations We will burn in fire. No sooner will their skins be consumed than We shall give them other skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge. God is mighty and wise.” Quran 4:56
“Believers, know that the idolaters [non-Muslims] are unclean. Let them not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year is ended.” Quran 9:28
“The unbelievers among the People of the Book [Bible] and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures.” Quran 98:6
>>81061955
Good taqiyya attempt, osama.
>>81061059
First of all, this verse is preceded by a mention that it was given to the Jews. Second, it was not. It is a rabbinical teaching. This means Allah does not even know where the teaching is from.
And the verse is followed by:
>The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;
In other words, killing is fine as long as it's done to defend Islam including killing those who oppose Islam.
post slam poetry to fix this racism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51_XrR3J9VY
>>81061059
Guess your not as witty as you thought you'd be posting this.
In the Quran, Non-Muslims ae NOT innocent people.
>>81061465
retard, what does 5:32 say? it's in the context of biblical Israel. 5:33 defines the punishment reserved for HIGH TREASON against King and Country in ancient Israel.
You should not take things out of context, lest you want to look like a fucking retard.
5:32 : It is because of this that We have decreed for the Children of Israel: "Anyone who kills a person for other than murder, or corruption in the land; then it is as if he has killed all the people! And whoever spares a life, then it is as if he has given life to all the people." Our messengers had come to them with clarities, but many of them are, after this, still corrupting on the earth.
5:33 The recompense of those who fight God and His messenger, and seek to make corruption in the land, is that they will be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from alternate sides or that they be banished from the land; that is a disgrace for them in this world and in the Hereafter they will have a great retribution.
>>81062356
>corruption
The definition of corruption in islam is any foreign culture that does not submit to islam.
>>81063377
>Guess your not as witty
>your
>your
>your
>>81061059
Infidels are not innocent. This quote is a lie used by Muslims to justify their crusade.
Jews made us cucked so we can fall to Islam and then Jews will airdrop pork to take over the world.
>>81063351
false. It defines the punishment for high treason against King and Country in the context of biblical Israel.
Kuffar are not innocent. I'm gald to see the infidel trembling in fear on this board.
/pol/ will do fucking nothing as usual. We will keep killing you in attacks just set so far apart that you don't actually rise against us. Let the storm of controversy end before we make anothe attack.
Inshallah /pol/ will remain a small irrelevant corner of the internet and the cucks in real life will do nothing to stop us. We will rule this continent by the end of this century completely. I have honoured to live in the time wherein the Prophet Muhammad's(pbuh) prediction about the fall of Rome will take place.
It's a shame this state chose to leave the European Union it means I will not simply be able to hop on a train to Rome and join my brothers on the day in which Rome is destroyed. But I will find a way to bear witness to the final destruction of the Crusader dogs.
Would be nice but for the fact that all non-muslims are guilty of shirk, the worship of any person or thing other than allah, and therefore by definition NOT 'innocent persons.'
We infidels are onto your deception, my friend.
>>81061059
"Innocent" status by the Qooky Books own teaching can be revoked immediately if they're non muslim, good shariah muslims
the "innocent person" it talks about is your average ISIS fighter
>>81061059
a non-muslim is never innocent in the eyes of Allah
>>81061059
Non believers arent innocent.
/thread
>>81063377
>your
ok retard, sure they aren't. what about the fact that ISIS kills more Muslims than non-Muslims? Are they infidels too?
Everyone is an infidel except for the 100 or so in the middle of Syria, I guess?
>>81061059
If you're not Muslim you're not innocent.
>>81063650
In Islam Muhammad is the last messenger. 5:33 is not a teaching that applies merely to some extremely limited context of ancient Israel. Go peddle your lies and obfuscation to someone else.
>>81063399
So those guilty of corruption, and thus deserving of death, are those who don't accept Allah's word?
Do these people even read their own scriptures?
>>81061272
>Vive la France
>posts the guy that killed it
>>81063399
Muhammad was in Mecca and trading and shit. One day he has some visions in a cave where he liked to masturbate. Anyway, he starts getting people to follow him because Arabs are more gullible than white BLM supporters. Eventually enough people are dumb enough to follow him that they start destroying the shrines to the other gods in Mecca (which was against the law and their main source of income via pilgrimages). So Muhammad and his boys are kicked out and they go to live in the next town over which they renamed Medina (the city of the prophet). So they conquer Medina and make everyone convert and then they go back to Mecca. Muhammad marries a 6 year old and fucks her when she's 9. Muhammad is also greedy so he leaves the stone he used to help him get off in that cave in the middle of town and tells everyone you have to pray towards it and that its really important to visit it and give Muhammad money.
Then they spread this plague to the four corners of the Earth. And here we are today. Most of the violent passages in the Quran are during his time after being kicked out of Mecca and during his conquests.
>>81061059
keep in mind that they are referring to the innocent in the eyes of their god. If they believe that their god does not see those people who were killed as "innocent" then it is justified.
>>81061955
you didn't read the quran, surah al hashr disagrees FULLY with you
>>81063933
>>81064321
if you committed high treason in the time of the Prophet, sure, the punishment was death. Nothing unusual about that.
5:32 even mentioned that 'after the corruption/treason' that Moses, Jesus and the Children of Israel had to face, it still endured until Prophet Muhammad.
>>81061059
That refers to their own kind, not Kafir.
>>81063842
Isis doesn't consider any of their victims to be true muslims.
The homosexual isis pushes off the ledge may be considered a muslim by you and himself, but Isis says otherwise.
Thus the paradox of organised religion. Different people interpret the same religion differently.
>>81061955
You should be careful, the penalty for apostasy like that is death
>>81061777
What the fuck is up with the lack of checking repeating digits?
Check'd
>>81064533
I'm pretty agnostic, but I've read all the holy books. I think Islam is a bit more believable than God turning himself into a ghost to birth himself in human form, desu
>>81061059
>1post by this id
report and sage
I don't necessarily believe that Islam is intrinsically more violent than any other religion, but the culture around it is definitely one of the worst, most vile and barbarian groups in the modern world.
>>81061351
This
>>81065052
I got banned recently for checking digits. Too scared to do it anymore.
>>81064793
>>81061351
ISIS has killed more Muslims than """Kafir"""
You have no idea what you're talking about.
whuuuut, muslims commiting murderous mischief?
>>81065470
What even is sunni/shia
>>81065125
I mean, I left out the night journey and some other stuff. Islam is just Arab fascism.
>>81064778
Since when did the Qur'an apply ONLY to the time of Muhammad? The essence of this teaching applies to any place ruled by Islamic law today.
>>81065287
>I don't necessarily believe that Islam is intrinsically more violent than any other religion
you are objectively, empirically wrong. Islam is the most violent religion because any chance of reformation of liberalism being introduced has been dismembered for apostasy or weeded out by fundamental groups.
I think the only way we can truly achieve world peace is by quite literally destroying Islam. Not just the followers, because they welcome death. Biut the ideology as well.
>>81065470
what is and isn't kaffir is entirely arbitrary and ISIS knows this and uses this to their advantage
>>81065600
Remember in 2000 when Bush and Gore basically tied? It's like that but filtered through the lens of Islam so they hate each other and need to blow each other up.
>>81065287
I agree. The problem is people don't give up there culture when moving to a country not filled with savages.
>Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely.
>unless for a soul or for corruption
Uhhhhh....
>>81065770
Muhammad's word is essentially law in Islam
>>81061059
Define the muslim version of innocence
>>81061059
>infidels
>innocent
Choose one you fucking sperg
>>81061059
"Innocent person" in Islam is someone who does namaz 5 times a day and pays zakyat to local sharia mafia.
Kafirs are not "innocent person" and killing them is encouraged.
>>81061222
Actually the issue is more fundamental. What you want to ask is what is the definition of an innocent person? The answer is a faithful muslim if you look at the proper sources. Everyone else falls outside of this.
>>81061059
Yup, that's right, but when there are 2 contradictory passages of the Quran, the Muslim scholars consider truer the later revealed. All those peaceful passages are from when Muhammad was powerless. When he gained power later on, the verses of the Quran became warmongering.
So... the Quranic scholars consider the LATER, warmongering verses, truer. But it is moral according to the Sharia to lie to non-muslims so that Islam may gains power and influence and maybe convert some kafir...
>>81061059
all people that are not muslim are also not innocent.
Dumb shit
>>81065770
Interpretation for severely autistic retards, such of yourself:
5:32 CHILDREN OF ISRAEL: "ANYONE WHO KILLS FOR OTHER THAN RETRIBUTION OF MURDER OR HIGH TREASON IS WILL BE AS IF HE KILLED ALL OF HUMANITY". TREASON HAPPENED DURING YOUR TIME, AND EVEN AFTER. MOSES AND JESUS TRIED TO CORRECT THIS, BUT THERE WAS TREASON STILL UNTIL MOHAMMAD
5:33 THOSE THAT COMMITTED HIGH TREASON AGAINST GOD's MESSENGER WERE KILLED OR BANISHED, AND THEY WILL SEE PUNISHMENT IN THE NEXT LIFE
>>81065927
Remember that most of the OT was acted out over a long period of time, some hundreds of years. The Quran takes place over maybe ten.
>>81065470
Yeah, apostates. This is because they occupied the regions they took over.
Also captcha asked me to select commercial trucks and now I'm triggered.
>>81065366
check'd
Kek wills you to continue checking.
>>81061059
Tell the Wahhabists that, they're Kharijites that kill other Muslims and non muslims.
>>81061059
'innocent person' infidels cannot be considered as persons let alone innocent faggy muslim cock sucker
>>81066647
So everyone they killed in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Egypt, Jordan, etc are ALL apostates? How would they be able to make that determination without backing of the Grand Imam of the Sunni faith?
Oh wait...
http://alwaght.com/en/News/5760/Grand-Imam-of-the-al-Azhar-Called-for-Killing-ISIS-Terrorists
Looks like it's ISIS that are the apostates.
>>81066530
You're obfuscating by implying this teaching applies only to a very narrow context. It simply isn't true.
>>81065975
Wait a second this part is just a retelling of the Old Testament.
>>81061059
That only applies to other muslims you fucking idiot, read the book.
Sage this slide bullshit
>>81067046
If no one is a true Muslim then every Muslim can kill every other Muslim for whatever reason they want. Only a Caliph can enforce what Islam really says.
>>81061059
Their reasoning is that all westerners or persons living in a western society are guilty of indulging in un-Islamic behavior and are therefore guilty.
Really should just get rid of Islam entirely.
>>81064743
>>81064994
As a Muslim, I genuinely believe all men to be my brothers, whether fellow Muslims or not is irrelevant to me. I can actually read Arabic so none of this translation shit means anything to me; I've read it and in the language in which it has been brought down so I believe I know a thing or two about it, not to mention I've devoted my entire life to it...
>“If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure that is because they are men without knowledge.” [Al-Qur’an 9:6]
What does this bullshit mean? To let people go if they convert or what?
>>81067046
Any government the doesn't submit to the caliphate is the enemy to them.
>>81067463
I don't give a shit, I could never accept a Muslim as a friend or a neighbor. Fuck yourself and get the fuck out of this country.
>>81067084
5:32 It is because of this that We have decreed for the Children of Israel: "Anyone who kills a person for other than murder, or corruption in the land; then it is as if he has killed all the people! And whoever spares a life, then it is as if he has given life to all the people." Our messengers had come to them with clarities, but many of them are, after this, still corrupting on the earth.
>other than MURDER
>or corruption in the land
Corruption, in this context (and so many other context) is high treason. What narrow context could there be? There are just TWO exceptions for taking a person's life, and it's spelled out quite plainly.
>>81067577
If one of the non-believers ask to get in let him in and teach him the islam. But be sure to tie him up because he could be retarded.
>>81066307
But for Islam nobody is innocent, not even fellow muslims.
Early passages in the Quran are abrogated by later ones.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naskh_(tafsir)
Hence, unlike Christianity/the Bible where contradictory statements are left for interpretation by the reader, older quotes are just completely invalid in Islam.
>>81061059
You don't know islam, the jihadist are true muslims. mudism has the law of abrogation, later verses trump earlier ones, what the jihadists are doing is following later islamic doctrine which overrules your quran 5:32.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmyGC96ClcE#t=7m50s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y#t=2m45s
>>81067323
That's only for the Sunnis you idiot.
>>81067323
>>81067792
Grand Imam ranks supreme in terms of clearing ambiguity. ISIS can call themselves whatever they want, but they were essentially excommunicated by the highest authority in Islam.
>>81061059
>>81068340
In America, Law Enforcement calls it "Subterfuge."
>>81067809
I meant the narrow historical context.
Also, you're lying to yourself if you pretend "corruption in the land" is one neatly defined exception. It is actually a rather wide concept, and hence under Islamic law there is a long list of prohibited things and an even longer one when it comes to the rights of religious minorities.
As for murder, just a reminder that it means the unlawful killing of a person. Within an Islamic context, it doesn't mean the same as murder in the context of a liberal democracy.
WOW! YOU REALLY MADE ME THINK YOU GIGANTIC FAGGOT! Go peddle your backwards medieval form of governance elsewhere you cuck.
>>81061059
Fuck off Muhammad.
Innocent doesn't include non-Muslims, unless I believe that they are dhimmi (living in subjugation as a non-Muslim in a Muslim country, paying deathly taxes, basically a slave), and even then that status doesn't really make you "innocent" innocent because no one gives a fuck about you.
That quote is expressly referring to Muslims that murder other Muslims, and I believe it also includes those who "cause mischief in the land" further on but with different punishment (cutting off hands/feet from different sides).
>>81065470
That is the only difference between ISIS and Al Qaeda (and others similar). Al Qaeda labels ISIS murderers/apostates for killing Muslims, but that is all. On killing non-Muslims, both groups are in complete lock-step agreement. That's why, for example, when some in the media refer to Al Qaeda / Hamas / MB as a moderate force they should be roundly ridiculed.
>>81065125
Nothing is more patethic than a non-muslim defending Islam.
>>81068288
The fifth surah is one of the latest ones. The issue with the verse quoted in OP is not an abrogation issue. It's about the context the verse is in.
>>81067463
>>81061059
Read me 5:33. 532 is telling jews how to behave in Islamic land given to them by Muhammed
>>81067463
dont give a shit about any of that, ever heard of dhimmi or jizya taxes.
you're more accepting to other people because growing up in a secular country you forget that the root of Islam is built on pillaging and war.
>>81069068
*pathetic.
>>81068727
The entire paragraph is spoken to the Children of Israel. What other time frame, except historical, could there be??
>>81065793
Don't you remember the Salem witch trials?
>>81067463
>flag America
>Muslim
But you don't, you live in America. American Muslims arent the problem, the Islamic world is where they take everything the book says as the law of the land. I don't give a shit what you're interpretation of the Quran is. The fact is is that as long as there are countries where people are persecuted for going against the teaching of Islam to the point where they are thrown off of buildings, stoned shot to death then we have an Islam problem. Oh it's your culture? Well if Germany had won WW2 that would have been German culture wouldn't it? You're a cuck and a traitor to all of those in the Islamic world, and they hate you. That is our problem. Your religion needs a rennaisance, and it will be achieved thru bloodshed or other means. Deal with it.
>>81068806
I agree with that... anyone that tries to associate Al Qeada / ISIS / etc with Islam is hysterical, especially when the Grand Imam and highest authority in Islam has denounced them thoroughly.
http://alwaght.com/en/News/5760/Grand-Imam-of-the-al-Azhar-Called-for-Killing-ISIS-Terrorists
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/muslims-against-isis-part-1-clerics-scholars
gg
>>81067463
My best friend is muslim, sup habibi.
Don't let these bigots get you down bro. Most of these people don't have friends other than simple white people. So their viewpoint is fairly small.
religion is used for power and control. Those following the religion, and the religion only, knows that the only things to follow is your heart. not some warlord that wants caliphate glory from the past.
>>81067463
Nice taquito osama, your gypsy manipulation tactics wont work on us.
>>81069799
Wait...wait wait wait. Are you saying that...what are you saying?
Taquiya trikery!
>>81069534
>>81069068
There's nothing more pathetic than illiterates trying to twist words of a what amounted to a decent movement in medieval Arabia solely to push a political agenda. Islam ushered in a golden era of science and literature for centuries afterwards, and it was quite the remarkable transformation.
I'm not even opposed to your political agenda-- I don't care much for open borders and refugees, but that has nothing to do with their religion of the refugees. It's about the economics of the situation for me (can't pay people to not work and expect prosperity to result).
>>81061059
What does Islam consider innocent?
>>81070010
Don't put words into my mouth.
Muslim scholars are on message with Al Qaeda, which is on message with Hamas, which is on message with the Muslim Brotherhood, which is on message with the OIC/Ummah.
ISIS is the only one going off key, and only because they're killing fellow Muslims which is regarded as murder of innocents (unless they cause mischief in the land, which would of course be the argument of ISIS when killing them).
They all agree on killing non-Muslims. They are all Islam and abide by Sharia. They are all human trash.
Muslims need to stand up and condemn these kinds of acts. They need to take the lead in removing their own cancer. We are sick of hearing "it isn't all the muslims". That doesn't solve a damn thing and sits right next to enabling the terrorism in my book.
Take up arms with us and then you'll be accepted. Shed your blood with me and you will be my brother
>>81069068
The countries are ran by militaristic gov'ts.
The 'problem' with islam, is that you have literally life itslef absolved into a single entity. Religion.
Islam is economics, daily life, gov't, religion, morality, community, real-life justice, tradition and is education.
When opponents have criticisms for any interpretations of people's implementations of islam, it's an absolutist view. Either he's right, which makes those in power wrong, or the individual is wrong and he's killed. It's not simple.
Time and Western's example of religious tolerance will rub off on Islamic peoples.
infidels aren't people tho
>>81061059
In the mind of a terrorist the people they kill are not inoccent.
>>81069687
Post me mainstream Sunni references that say that the teachings in the Qur'an are strictly limited to their historical context. Protip: you can't. The teachings apply to any land ruled by Islamic law today.
Also, 5:32 is the one that quotes a teaching allegedly given to the Children of Israel. The verse ends in the comment that they did not follow the teaching. The reference to Israel here was explanatory as is clear in the context. The following verses do not describe Israel, although of course within the context of Islam the given teaching would have also applied in ancient Israel but this is due to Islam's concept of history where Islam existed before it actually existed.
>>81071022
Innocent = Muslim (who has committed no crimes, mischief in the land, etc.)
Temporarily/Occasionally Innocent = Dhimmi
Not Innocent = Everyone else
>>81071334
This is exactly what is happening in Iraq and while it isn't the fastest process, it is a good strategy in my opinion.
As much as I would love to destroy these scum as part of a serious western military force, and it really wouldnt take that long or be that difficult, those who melt away into the desert WILL be back once the force has gone. Training and assisting the Iraqi army is working, slowly.
>>81070672
I'm saying that strong establishments don't take dissent well, neither do they take outliers well in ANY society.
Islam is their CULTURE it's not just a religion. Think of jews but they aren't afraid to fight for themselves.
If you get rid of islam, you might aswell get rid of all the abrahamic gods.
muslims are generally taught to follow the later teachings of mohammad because they supersede the first
so instead of psuedo jesus prophet we get a vicious warlord child molester
Its from the most reliable english translation of the Quran.
It clearly states that you can kill to take a life back or kill people corrupted.
>>81061059
Infidels are not innocent.
>>81061059
That only applies to Muslims. They don't count non-Muslims as Human.
Islamic """Innocence""" as a concept is sketchy when discussing heathens.
Islam preaches that anyone is fair game if you piss them off enough, but muslims (and to a lesser extent, christians and jews) are less fair-game than heathens.
The Quran is filled with contradictions and inconsistencies. Even Muslim scholars in the middle ages pointed this out.
For someone to follow the entire Quran literally, it really means they're ignoring the contradictions or interpreting them in a way to make them seem consistent, which... means it's not a "literal" interpretation.
Muslims and /pol/fags eternally BTFO.
>>81061059
Lol this is the same faggot quote used by everyone, literally the only place where they can spin Islam as being peaceful, EVEN THOUGH IN REALITY IT'S ABOUT PUNISHING JEWS WHO KILL MUSLIMS NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND
>>81061059
>(1) post fag
And the rest of you faggots fell for this
This displeases Kek (pbuh)
>>81061059
>Infidels
>Innocent
>>81061222
$20 bucks say it only applies to other Muslims.
An infidel is free to be killed.
>>81061059
Nice taqqiya bro.
Sure
>>81070823
>Islam ushered in a golden era of science and literature for centuries afterwards
kek
>>81061059
I don't fall under that category. I'm not Muslim after all, I'm a devil/infidel.
>>81061059
"innocent person" doesn't include infidels you hapless naive CUNT
https://youtu.be/cBD9cDn52w8
>>81063933
no. muhammed is the last prophet. more messengers and warners will come.
>>81061059
The key word is "Innocent person" but if you are not of the faith you are not innocent, if you commit any thing under that religion you are not innocent.
All of the west, because of Christian, or values, or morals is not innocent.
>>81061059
Meaning Muslims. A person who has had the opportunity to convert to Islam and chosen not to is maximally guilty, and killing them is required of all Muslims who can either kill them directly, or at least support the effort with money or supplies.
>>81065793
that doesn't account for white americans converting to islam and having zero contact with middle east culture.
>>81066447
sounds like a bunch of shia faggots. my understanding is the bigger the chapter, and more to the front, the more important. the chapter on women is like chapter 2? 5? something early on. and it's fucking long.
>>81077076
quran is clear. only god may judge. god is the best judge. muslims killing anyone sends them to hell, as if they have killed everyone on earth.
>>81077076
You shouldnt hold views on anything. Really.
>>81077786
so muhammed is in hell?
Quran
5:32
Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land – it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one – it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.
Remind me again, who are the Children of Israel?
Talmud
Mishnah Sanhedrin 4:5
Whoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whoever saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world.
Quran 5:33
Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,
Islam is evil cancer. Purge all Muslim scum.
>>81076935
Reminder that Ahmadis are not considered Muslims by followers of Islam (as taught in the Qur'an and the hadiths), and only Ahmadis themselves consider and call themselves Muslims.
In Islam a messenger is one in whom God places his message. To say there will be other such messengers after Muhammad is clearly incompatible with Islam because it implies they would convey a message directly from Allah rather than being "messengers" in a generic sense. There is also a hadith where Muhammad says there will be no messenger after him.
>>81061059
>kafir
>person
>>81061059
>Be Muslim
>Stone a kuffar for being white
>Remember verse from Koran
>mfw no other kuffars dead
>Rent a truck
>>81061290
which is?
YOU HAVE BEEN VISITED BY THE ISLAMIC TRUCK OF TOLERANCE
______________¶___
|religion of peace ||l “”|””\__,_
|______________|||__|__|__|]
(@)@)*********(@)(@)**(@)
POST THIS IN ANOTHER THREAD OR THE PEACE TRUCK WILL NEVER COME TO YOUR COUNTRY!
ITS GOING TO BE A GREAT FUCKING WEEK !!
Do you realize there's something called abrogation, right?
Laters Sunas of the Quran, SUPERCEDE the older ones. Learning about this shit is a Google search away.
>>81061059
you would not be considered innocent if you were a french tax payer because you are ultimately contributing to the french military. that's how these "people" think
>>81064424
Lying to non-believers s a-ok too by the way, as well as stealing.
>>81061059
If Islam is the religion of peace then why aren't Islamic extremists extremely peaceful?
>>81061059
>verse is dependent on the muslim definition of innocent
>definition includes only muslims
Mow down a crowd of frogs?
No problem.
>>81062206
>The mischief makers
SHAKE SHAKE
>>81083682
solid logic tb h
>>81083700
whit westerners lie to everyone and themselves all the time, this includes when they pretended saddam was their friend then decided to kill him, this includes when they pretended qaddafi was their friend and killed him, this includes when they pretended assad was their friend then tried to kill him
islam did nothing wrong, it merely gave back what the west has been dishing out against it for decades now
no, there will never be a WW3 against islam or muslims because it wouldn't be a war it would be a massacre
no, westerners will never be able to save themselves in a civil war against muslims and the governments will use this opportunity to simply go full police state on your asses
it's already starting in russia as an example
>>81062206
you confirm being at war then?
how aren't the terrorist's actions not justified then?
there's literally nothing wrong dismissing disbelievers, every holy book does it
>>81061537
There are radical buddists in Tibet. They live in mountains and sometimes go down to kill some people.
>>81061059
Oh no!
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/taqiyya.aspx
>>81086903
>whit westerners lie to everyone and themselves all the time
So white westerners are Hillary Clinton who wants to steal everyones Gold and help the Jews.
Got you famalan
>>81061059
I'll field this one, as I have been busting this LIE all day
Islam has a tradition called abrogation. This means the newer teachings usurp the older teachings.
So when Islam first started, Mohamed was powerless and he was forced to preach a false message of peace.
However, when his evil religion gained power, his teachings suddenly turned to focus on acts of violence and evil.
So the latter teachings are the real Islam.
OP is a fucking idiot who knows nothing about religion
Check
And
Make
>>81061059
*unless they're gay
>>81075443
das it main
>>81061222
This.
>>81061955
You're probably not a real Muslim, just in name only, like most Christians...
Why do 2nd and 3rd generation mudslimes emulate niggers?
>>81061059
If you arnt muslim, you arnt innocent. Which makes it justified for them to kill you. Fucking fool
>>81061272
>vive le france
>post pic of worst french terrorist ever existed
He's up there with Gengis Khan and you guys keel seeing him as a national hero.
This guy wasted most young people in the continent cause he wanted to be Emperor.
>>81061059
and because I am not a muslim I am not considered Innocent.
>>81082499
>Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,
>>81061059
On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.
---
In context it says the exact opposite of that you're trying to imply.
----
What does it matter what their holy book says when it's practitioners are murderous psychotics who would do anything their imaginary friend tells them to? Fuck islam and fuck you.
------
>>81061059
Fuck you piece of shit, quote the whole verse, it's not meant for muslims, it is a quote from some Jew books, only the next verse is meant for Muslims.
>>81061059
I hope President Trump takes some nukes to Raqqa and other ISIS strongholds.
>>81091290
>>81091290
>This guy wasted most young people in the continent cause he wanted to be Emperor
Yeah, but also most french people wanted him to be the Emperor after the French Revolution
>>81061059
NO KUFFAR IS INNOCENT
>>81061059
>mfw muslims consider "kuffars" not innocent
>mfw they fucking kill gays and women who are raped all the time
