Communism is the best form of government. Prove me wrong.
>>80571074
Can I have some money please?
>>80571074
What country has successfully implineted it?
>>80571074
Technically speaking, I dont have to prove you wrong. We are both right. Cheers.
shit OP I have nothing, you win.
>>80571074
Oh, that's why eastern European countries influenced by communism are rich and prosperous... really made me think
>inb4 China
They are officially commies but their whole economy is based on capitalism
>>80571074
Because no country has prospered under communism.
>>80571074
Communism and socialism bring everyone down to the same level of complacency and stifle any desire for innovation and self-improvement because "why bother?"
Also, pic related.
>>80571074
oh boy, I just cant wait to explain for the 6th gazillion time why communism doesn't work
>>80571291
>>80571536
Exactly can't prove me wrong nor any alternatives.
>>80571312
>>80571382
That doesn't mean communism isn't the best form of government.
>>80571074
It isn't because Communist societies don't have governments. The kikes ran with Marx's ideas and created countries of state (((((socialism))))) which is supposed to be the method by which equality is achieved and the state is repealed to allow for the communist society to exist.
If there's a state, it's not a commune
sw33t bait lad! I haven't seen a gommie thread in fucking forever and lol at these damn eastern euro liberalshka spreading their lies about the famines haha praise be to kek i'm just a gidd :DDDD
>>80571808
It doesn't promote most skilled/intelligent/experienced people but relatives and friends. Communism controls your life, way you think, what and when you do something.
Name one communist country that isn't complete shit.
Here (((OP))), watch this if you have an intense desire to blow yourself out.
>Milton Friedman Speaks - Is Capitalism Humane?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27Tf8RN3uiM
ummm sage
Wait, I thought Venezuela was an example of socialism gone wrong..?
Oh well I guess it's whatever we fuckin need it to be, amirite?
>>80571383
>Also, pic related.
Can you name any revolutions without innocent victims?
>>80571074
Yes, but as long as there isn't corrupt people at the top taking all the money and power.
Then true communism would be wonderful.
>>80571074
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union
>>80571074
no thanks
>>80571074
>>80575652
Yeah but that image isn't true communism. I like Nazi Germany as much as the next guy on /pol/, but a technocracy (true communist) planet is fucking utopian man.
Communism literally goes against every human fibre in our bodies.
People don't want to be the "same".
People don't want to settle for less.
People don't want to support others unless they are at a certain level of wealth.
Get this shit into your head you little rebel, people are greedy, people strive for more, better things for themselves and their family.
Just because you think your idea of sharing wealth is righteous doesn't mean people change. There will always be people trying and succeeding to take advantage and to take power so they have more than others.
Human fucking nature. Stop trying to go against it you filthy hippie.
>>80576132
Exactly. But if we could, we would all be better off.
>>80576029
>>80571074
Two words : no incentive
>>80571074
All anarchist systems are vulnerable to defectors and collapse into tyranny, even before we deal with practical issues, such as your inability to match production to desire consumption.
>>80576132
I think society should change not people :^)
>>80571074
>communism works guys!
>millions die
>it wasn't real communism! Try again!
rinse and repeat
>>80576625
Communism has never been tried.
We need a small society of about 500, in a self-sustaining agriculture "Eden" type system on a floating pontoon in international waters. True communism can be tested there, and I bet you it will be extremely successful, as long as no cunt gets greedy and tries to create a harem of all the females, or hoard all the food etc.
>>80576625
Capitalism killed millions more :^)
>>80576289
>saving the thumbnail
>>80576029
Technocracy is an oligarchy of experts, is strictly hierarchical, and is not communism. You should hang out with the neoliberals, because they all fancy themselves technocrats, while destroying the world economy every now and again.
>>80575288
>>80576289
you guys are the worst anti communist in the entire existence
After global Capitalism hits Communism is the next step.
>>80571074
you win op
>>80571074
>>80571808
>2 posts by this ID
>>80576811
Even if we accept your shitposting,
Millions dying of circumstances caused by capitalism (poverty, pollution, etc) is not comparable to millions dying from preventable famines, purges and being chucked into fucking gulags
>>80571074
>>80576760
Sure bud. That's definitely achievable. Communism will work with emotionless groups of robots who are programmed to the same objective.
>>80571074
DONE
>>80578890
The one under the dictator is the party, left that out, my bad.
>>80571383
people with no desire to innovate will not innovate, those who wish to can and will
>>80571074
Isn't Communism explicitly the absence of a government? It's supposed to be a classless, stateless society. That's part of the reason it doesn't exist--classes do not form as a result of government, they are natural, and cannot be eliminated, even by government.
>>80579053
Necessity breeds innovation, no need, no incentive for people to always be looking for a better way.
>>80575236
>calls op a jew
>post a red pilled jew
>>80578890
>this
>>80579150
I fucking hate communism.
"Hey guiz I have the perfect idea for how society should be run"
"That's great! You've actually managed to reconcile the competing interests of individuals while maintaining equality of opportunity and preserving all the necessary incentives to keep people working?"
"Yeah basically in my system everyone just acts perfectly and then there's no more problems"
"But why would they do that?"
"Cuz it's the system, yeah?"
It's like something a 5 year old would come up with.
>>80575101
the soviet union was good until brezhnev came along and reversed all the progress the soviets made in the past
and yugoslavia was pretty good until the reagan administration interfered
fun fact venezuela is starving not because "muh socialism" but because of the fact that the us put sanctions on the country as well as the fact that the country relies on the oil trade for their economy to function and oil prices have been pretty low
venezuela was doing ok under the socialist government for a while but no one talks about that
if a capitalist government fails or if people start starving in a capitalist country nobody blames capitalism they just say it's some other thing
>>80579204
>government grants (i.e. your taxes) fund a large amount of scientific/technological research
i'm not denying that consumer-oriented 'innovation' is all bunk; but a majority of it is used to appease a consumer's constant need for novelty (and push capital). Bendy screens, your new wifi fridge, glittery fleshlights, VR headsets... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ0JTkBZdyw
hell, the term innovation is just a cheap selling point these days.
desu the real meat and muscle comes from the military industrial complex, which gets a majority of funding from the USGOV
>>80571536
then explain it you cuck
>>80579993
You don't measure a runner by how fast he was running in the marathon if he had a fucking heart attack before he got to the finish line. A failed state is a failed state. Venezuela would be fine if it would have diversified it's energy sector and not engaged in socialist price setting.
>>80571383
>no desire for innovation
then why is it that the majority of "innovations" in technology (among other things) today are simple gimmicks made to screw people out of $600
>>80579993
Venezuela is starving because they built an unsustainable monocultured economy around oil production without diversifying like, say, Norway did, or as the Saudis are attempting to do now.
The reason this happened, though, is that Nationalized industry favors easy solutions to public opinion problems, and the easiest solution to nobody in Venezuela having any prospects or opportunities was to flood them with gibs instead of spending the money on something useful. Gasoline was so cheap in Venezuela that most places didn't even charge for it, they gave it out like water at a restaurant.
Pure Socialism does not work. Mixed economies are the way to go. Norway's largest oil company is primarily state owned, but only by I believe 65%, which allows money to flow both to social programs and the lower orders, and also towards high level commercial interests and corporate investment. Coupled with low corporate taxes you have the ultimate environment for combined economic growth and high quality of life.
But Socialist ideologues don't like to talk about Norway when you bring up the fact that it is successful because it combines low corporate taxes with partial state-ownership of certain industries.If Venezuela had not been huge cocksuckers, and if Chavez had not essentially stolen a bunch of peoples' assets, it would be the richest country in the world.
>>80580253
get your own opinion leaf
>>80580050
lets really take VR into consideration, there's no doubt in my mind that our friends at lockheed-martin, BAE, and other large happy-friendly corporations were experimenting with VR interfaces for military use, on the citizen's dime.
http://archive.ncsa.illinois.edu/Cyberia/VETopLevels/VR.History.html
its science at this point, they take the positive attributes (fighter-jet headsets, small, high resolution screens, headtracking, etc.) implement it where it needs to be, done and done.
fucking imagine what's being developed on your dime today.
now here, in 2016, after OCR/cuckerburg gets millions in crowdfunding, releases a subpar product which needs the help of online personalities to advertise it.
you're not buying a quality product, you're buying an idea. Millions in america spending hard labor on ideas and dreams. Not a very efficient use of resources or manpower, unless your the guy at the top.
>>80571074
Communism is an end result, not a solution.
>>80579993
>and yugoslavia was pretty good until the reagan administration interfered
Lets not pretend that Yugoslavia fell apart for any reason other than the Balkan states being the Balkan states.
On paper .
In small groups of honest people it could work alright .
But here in the real world of 9 billion liars , you'll sooner start a snow shoveling business in hell
>>80575345
Glorious Revolution
Your move
>tfw there will never be communal ownership of the means of production
>tfw Socialism will never prevail
>tfw Capitalism has been an unmitigated success in raising the lot of the many
>tfw you live a comfy upper middle class life with little stress or discomfort
>tfw you get to enjoy seeing the self-avowed socialists, who live off the triumphs of capitalism in some of the most prosperous nations, insist on the validity of the labour theory of value and muh socially necessary labour time knowing that their ideals will never be taken seriously
>>80581542
read this nigga
>>80571074
It failed
>>80581542
>Lets not pretend that Yugoslavia fell apart for any reason other than the Balkan states being the Balkan states.
This kind of blind arrogance is why we're enjoying ourselves watching your 'country' burn.
Make no mistake, the whole West is going the way of Yugoslavia pretty soon, and it's gonna be 1000 times more violent.
Glorious.
>>80571074
that sure showed me. guess i'm a #shillforhill now
cool
when tito 2.0 pops up in yugoslavia can i hang with you guys ?
>>80582023
was meant for >>80581917
>>80581743
>a slight knock fired up the typical Balkan tensions
Woah, thanks for proving my point.
>>80581917
>Make no mistake, the whole West is going the way of Yugoslavia pretty soon, and it's gonna be 1000 times more violent.
>Glorious.
Pretty good shitpost right there, I rate it a 7.
>>80571074
it's wallowing the lowest common denominator of life and using propping up a dysfunctional oppressive system through massive levels of coercion, please kid......
>>80571074
No it's not
It requires complete and total dehumanization. When the Russians installed it, none of the peasants wanted to work the state-owned land because it wasn't theirs so they didn't give a shit, and these plots were absolutely huge, so food production dropped instantly
>>80581917
The US will be one bloody mess for surem but let's be honest, yugoslavia would have not worked because of the Orthodox Catholic devide unless one removed the other.
>>80576299
>the only incentive anyone has to do anything is for money!
>it's the only thing we've ever known so it must be hew man natchur guys like obviously.
>>80582040
Sure, just bring that sweet syrup of yours.
>>80582042
>shitpost
As if you're not aware of this yourself. You wouldn't be here if you weren't.
![churchill2[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/wNOspnc.jpg "churchill2[1].jpg")
>>80571074
It has been tried.
>>80581716
it's honestly easier to imagine the apocalypse than it is to live in a post-capitalist world.
even the "marxist dialectic" has been consumed by neoliberal global capitalism. Morality, sexuality, identity, (especially) politics; all of it can and will be sold to you at a competitive price.
take that as you will, be it horrifying or a triumph of the free market.
>>80571074
True communism is just extreme collectivism, there individualism is thrown out the window.
If you want to conserve the values of your society and its gene pool than yeah communism is the go. but be warned, that's pretty much what the Abo's did for 45,000 years.
Individualism to an extent is good because on from conflict are humans encouraged to learn.
>>80571074
>>80582239
you don't understand money
>>80582238
>yugoslavia would have not worked because of the Orthodox Catholic
But it worked for almost 50 years. Why? Because it was a secular country that didn't give religion its' spotlight.
Sure, that might have made some things worse in the long run, but you have to consider these were baby-boomers we're talking about. They're basically 50's millennials.
Anyone who tells me 'but it couldn't work' just needs to ask someone older than 40 what life was like back then.
>>80582424
because as we all know capitalism has never cause a single death ever
>>80582466
Omg I hate communism now wtf
>>80582554
It worked for 40 years because Tito was good at his job. That is the only reason.
>>80582338
Your post is obscurantist drivel. What the fuck are you trying to convey?
>>80571074
>>80582814
ever read anything by marx ?
just curious
Just posting this
Workers owning the means of their own labour is retarded, they should own the means of their own property
>>80582562
that's not capitalism, leaf, that's imperialist CIA funding terrorist groups.
>>80583585
funding terrorist groups to fight and suppress anti capitalist organization
>>80579993
>the country relies on the oil trade for their economy to function and oil prices have been pretty low
There's a reason other oil rich countries aren't starving and didn't fund their Socialist policies with 90% oil money, it's because central planning doesn't create a flexible economy so yes Socialism is shit because it distorts incentives and economic signals and creates a rigid economy that can't handle crisis.
Look at how Chile recovered from the Latin American credit crisis for example or Australia from the GFC and minimg busts. It's bad here but we aren't starving yet, rest assured this isn't from a lack of trying by Socialists here.
If the Greens were in power here every state would be like Tasmania.
>>80583705
wrong as hell son
The sole reason the US is backing terrorists is to secure the israeli existence
>>80582703
>neoliberal global capitalism
majority of economic power lies within the global corporate oligarchy, this common interest in driving profit is becoming free of national borders. Trade partnerships only make this process easier.
>"marxist dialectic" has been consumed... Morality, sexuality, identity, (especially) politics...
its just capitalism man, you work, you get payed, you consume; it's beyond your control
granted it's a loopy capitalism where the products are made in a chinese gulag and upsold 1000%, with more $$$ is put into advertising it than actual quality. bought not for function but novelty, the "spectacle"
is your operating system microsoft or OSX? Are you a techie or an artist?
linux? wow check out this special socialist snowflake
STILL SEEKING FEEDBACK ON THIS.
I'd like general first impressions from people on how this comes across to them. I'm still refining the idea and your feedback would help.
>>80576289
New Zealand is Australian territory.
>>80571074
Communism is flawless if you're willing to completely disregard human nature. The unfortunate part about society is that we are human, senpai.
>>80576760
Even anarcho capitalism would work there. You are not proving anything. Communist societies have no desire for innovation and people will get lazy and live for the food the farmers give them and society will collapse. Rome fell because of soialism (free food) and scamming the Ceasar
>>80571074
someone said communism
>>80571074
Yeah, we even got our name from one of them.
> /pol/ pot
>>80582863
He's a fucking bigoted pseudo intellect who never stepped in a factory. I read the Communist manifesto half of it is low-tier capitalism criticism which has been debunked by Milton Friesland in an hour on a stage and the other half is contradictory bullshit
>>80571074
There is no government in communism. Don't talk about things you don't understand.
>>80584638
>I read a 200 year old pamphlet
>Why isn't it totally applicable to the modern day situation???
Gee, I don't fucking know.
Reading Marx is not the end of studying communism. It's barely even the beginning.
>>80571074
>communism
>form of government
fuck off (((bolshevist)))
How is Communism any different from a despot dictatorship.
Clearly Republican democracy is the only way to govern your nation properly
>>80584173
the fathers of free market economics believed in some crazy enlightenment shit where you're supposed to be ethical in your capitalist dealings. that it was human nature to cooperate or something
in this cold harsh world though, only the strongest theories survive, right?
http://imagining-other.net/enl5adamsmith.htm
https://www.academia.edu/3138759/Social_Contract_Theory_by_Hobbes_Locke_and_Rousseau
>>80584948
actually, fuck me, hobbes didn't believe in cooperative human nature, im taking fault for that
>>80584638
>he read half of a pamphlet and that was too much for him
learn to read
>>80582239
Why would you bust your ass to become an engineer when you can flip burgers for the same pay?
>>80571074
A dictatorship with a good, kind and cunning leader is the best type, but since a dictatorship with a bad leader is the worst, it's not recommended.
Communism doesn't work for shit. It topples under its own bureaucracy, because it can not accurately determine the value of things. Determining the value of things is so hard.
The advantage of markets is that they simultaneously offer incentive to work, as every purchase decision helps determine the price something has.
People also just take better care of things they own. If you own a house, you improve it. If you rent it, you make sure you don't get in trouble for modificstions or neglect and that's about it.
>>80579993
>was good but went to shit
>was good but went to shit
>is good even though it looks like shit
>was good but went to shit
Its almost like communist countries start off great, but then the bubble bursts and the whole thing falls apart, without any exceptions
>if a capitalist government fails
This happens pretty rarely. I can't think of a single example of a capitalist country failing in the last hundred years.
OP should swallow glass.
>>80585546
First of all, that's egalitarianism which is Marxist but not strictly communism. Communism means that the means of production are owned by the workers, which doesn't necessarily mean workers would all make the same income.
However, to answer your question: because flipping burgers isn't fulfilling in any sense of it and engineering is. If you had a secure wage no matter what you'd elect flipping burgers over cool, fun, interesting or challenging things? (assuming you're capable)
>>80586272
It's almost as if a century or so of history isn't actually that much and so far the countries that secured the dominate share of resources necessarily turned into capitalist states so that the owners could consolidate that wealth leaving only countries that are already impoverished shit holes desperate enough to attempt communism. Compound that with the aforementioned capitalist states waging war or trade sanctions I believe without exception so far and of course they all fall into despotic shit.
History has proven you wrong repeatedley
In before "that's not ((((((real))))) communism"
>>80571074
Yugoslavia lived good in comunist times (from 1945 to 1990)
During prosperity, it had only one leader. Tito. After Tito died, soon after republican leaders started to fight amongst each other over power and that all collapsed in 1989 and let to bloody civil war...
>>80587004
>necessarily turned into capitalist states so that the owners could consolidate that wealth
>necessarily
>N E C E S S A R I L Y
>E
>C
>E
>S
>S
>I
>L
>Y
Are you implying that its not possible to be prosperous AND communist? That, in order for such prosperity to occur it is NECESSARY (or perhaps you meant inevitable) that they become capitalist? Because that would be a clue that its a stupid fucking system with no sustainability.
If history proves that communism always fails because it is a victim of capitalism that indicates that capitalism is superior because it always wins.
>>80576760
>>80576811
>>80571074
>>80571808
>>80580110
>>80576029
>>80582239
>>80584758
A friendly reminder that a communist is target practice
communism can basically only work when the system is small and there is no need for specialized workers.
Basically modern hunter-gatherer tribes with group leadership.
>>80571074
>food goes down
>monarchy
>food goes up
>gommubism :D :D :D
Doesn't communist China kind of disprove communism ever working?
As soon as public owned farming was abolished, their economy skyrocketed.
>>80587273
Just like every totalitarian system with an iron fisted autocrat. When he's gone, totalitarianism breaks down with weaker leaders.
>>80575345
La Revolution Tranquille in Quebec.
Zero victim and our entire socio-political and socio-cultural changed in a manner of years.
>>80587395
>Are you implying that its not possible to be prosperous AND communist? That, in order for such prosperity to occur it is NECESSARY (or perhaps you meant inevitable) that they become capitalist
No you've got it backwards. Consolidation after centuries of feudalism and war caused prosperity which caused capitalism, capitalism didn't cause prosperity.
Like everyone who makes this meme argument, you're looking at history with myopia, as though the last century in history existed in some vacuum and is the finalized state of shifting culture, economics and politics. The point is that communism represents what's inevitable about the pattern in human organization and where we're heading, and that's control and prediction of our own future. Capitalism is the economics of chaotic feudal warring. Communism is the economics of science, of measure, of determination. It's not about 'capitalism vs communism' as though they are competing, they're not. Capitalism is the stage of development we are in and communism is the next stage. Let's just hope we don't destroy ourselves before we get there.
>>80575345
Weimar revolution
>>80588482
>feudalism made capitalism successful
every successful capitalist state was a feudal state before it was capitalist. This is also true for every communist state. The whole world was feudal, so whatever precursor to capitalism you want to attribute its success to that same precursor is also present for failed communist states, yet they failed.
>communism is the next stage
What is the stage after communism called?
Look at this pic. It is in a communist country, but all of that product in those thousands of containers will be shipped to capitalist countries. The most successful communist states depend on capitalist populations to support their economy. Even the commies are really capitalists underneath the red paint.
>>80571074
>communism
no, autism is best
I don't even have to prove you wrong, all of human history is doing a quite fine job of that already.
>>80571382
>>80571383
>>80575101
I can't name any successful communist countries. In fact, I wouldn't be able to name a single "communist country" at all. That's because "communist countries" don't exist. Communism is completely stateless. If you mean socialist states with the goal of communism, well then I can name quite a few.
>>80590057
>" I wouldn't be able to name a single "communist country" at all. That's because "communist countries" don't exist."
Fuck you and you're stupid meme
>>80591201
Pray tell, what is the definition of communism?
>>80571808
>every country to implement communism has invariably failed
>this doesn't prove it's a shit tier form of government
The problem with communism is that it requires workers to all work hard. When this inevitably doesn't fucking happen they try increasing pride in their nation. Men will work hard if they believe in something. However, the propaganda doesn't influence everyone. And they can't have dissenting civilians running around, so they start killing. And then they don't stop until the people overthrow the communist regime.
>>80591311
You know, I have a friend who argues just like you. He runs out of points to make, so he tries to get the other person to contradict themselves so he can walk away with a small fraction of a victory. It's desperate, and if you know the definition then why not make your point already?
>>80579993
>the soviet union was good
Oh yeah tell me more please.
>>80571074
Communism means you are classified as a 'Worker'. Guess who gets to boss you around? The same corrupt scum as now. Only under Communism, they get to send you to Gulag, or have you executed.
Wage-Slaves are a menace!
>>80571383
The Khmer Rouge killed off the bourgeois intellectual class. That was a good thing.
>>80571074
>communism
>government
xD
>>80579993
>the soviet union was good
Oh yeah, it was just perfect, the leaves are experts on this, it is known.
>>80594142
>killing the smart rich people
sounds like a great idea abdul lets start a commie revolution in saudi arabia
>>80593461
I literally defined it in my first post. It's stateless, I don't know how much clearer I can be about that. If he disagrees with that assertion, I'd like to know what he thinks communism really is.
>>80571074
>communism
>form of government
No.
>>80571117
this op im poor give me your house you fucking kulak
>>80585087
Reread what he said you illiterate.
>>80571074
Communism by definition isn't a form of government.
>>80592662
I dunno man, China is doing pretty well.
But this was a one of a million chance. Every other place with communism applied either failed or went apeshit.
>>80579993
>trust me, I - a leaf - lived under communism for years
>I have first hand experience
You most likely weren't even born when communism existed. What revisionists tell and how it actually was are two different things.
>>80590057
>working class
>cooperating with communists
Yeah sure, it was only the government that prevented the communist utopia.
>>80585087
the irony
>>80579993
>the soviet union was good
>>80571074
Just like Capitalism, it's vulnerable to corruption and doesn't have real incentive to protect the environment.
