![libertarians[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/CDSHUn4.jpg "libertarians[1].jpg")
Why did so many libertarians turn into alt-right fucktards?
I'm asking because I've been browsing /pol/ since it was called /new/, and I feel like I've witnessed a pretty giant swing in the average /pol/ack's ideology. I feel like GG was the turning point. Pre-GG, the most popular ideology seemed to be libertarianism. Posts on Keynesian vs. Austrian economics were probably the most popular debates. Of course, you had the alt-right white nationalists and the cuckold porn spammers at that point too, but they were mostly a minority and a giant percentage of them were memers from the /new/ days. But post-GG, it seems like the entire board's focus has shifted to a culture war of sorts. That seems weird as fuck to me, since normally libertarians think the government should stay out of cultural issues and give people, well, liberty in that regard. The alt-right philosophy seems to be entirely opposite to that. The logic seems to be "restore the social and cultural conditions of 1950s america and the economic and politic stuff will sort it self out".
So, /pol/? How do you go from a political philosophy that stresses cultural apathy to one that's almost entirely based on a perceived culture war?
Edgy reactionaries reacting 100% to tumblr. It's sad that 2 websites reacting to each other created such a bunch of bull shit now.
>>80336464
Is that really all there is to it?
I mean, that seems like that's all there is to it. But I'd like to hope there's some actual train of thought behind most Trumposters aside from "muh ess jay dubyas". Like, I want to believe that there's some actual logic behind these people.
I really don't want to think that /pol/ meme'd a man into the general election.
>>80336328
Because desperate times call for desperate measures. Libertarians may have good intentions, but they in effect will be no better than neo-cons, which in effect are no better than Dems. Johnson is pro open borders, pro amnesty. That tells you all you should need to know.
A Libertarian president may have been helpful in a world where USA was still 90% white.
>>80336328
Maybe they went back to re ddit where their jewish ideology is more welcome. Have fun for voting for legalize weed open borders man.
>>80336328
MUH ROADS
>>80336328
Been here since 2013. Libertarians were never anything more than a retarded and loud minority.
>>80336328
It's become increasingly obvious that people literally want to exterminate straight white males, and all the economic policy on the world doesn't mean shit when Muslims are raping your women and the thought police are silencing you for suggesting maybe we stop that.
I know what you're talking about and yes, the world has gotten that much worse just the last few years and yes, everybody notices, which is why we have occasional threads about 'man shit sure has gotten terrible just the last few years'
I hope for trump because I'm a poorfag and him winning pisses off richfags. When it comes to politics, I always tend to agree with Gary Johnson more and with Trump quite seldom. But that's besides the point. Johnson's not going to win. Trump or Shillary is.
>>80336328
Reactionary shift because of Obama and Hillary. They'll swing back to the left when we get our next Bush-tier Republican president
Libertarians are contrarian by nature, for better or worse
>>80336677
No dude, you give /pol/ way too much credit. They don't believe in anthropogenic global warming, most of them are christian, and /pol/ has one of the lowest average IQ's of any board on 4chan.
I only come here for humorous entertainment. It's like watching the retarded kids at recess trip and fall.
National Liberalism is here to stay. I want to see white trannies and gays holding hands with a gun in the other and joints in the pocket and a nigger skin wallet.
>>80336328
because I am 24 instead of 18
I fell for the lolbertarian meme
now I realize gary johnson is a retarded faggot who wants open borders
>>80336869
>been here since the exact point where I said the board shifted
Libertarians used to be the minority, man. Threads on economic theories were like 70-80% of the board. The guys screaming about culture were the ones who used to be the minority.
>>80336837
>>80336721
>assuming you know everything about my personal political views or who I'm even voting for based on my question
i'm not a libertarian lol
>>80337118
I could buy that.
During the late bush years 4chan was super liberal.
Libtertarians are worthless, enjoy never being relevant to anything, ever.
>>80336328
>>80336704
>Libertarians may have good intentions, but they in effect will be no better than neo-cons, which in effect are no better than Dems.
This.
>>80336328
Libertarians try to stay out of cultural issues, but when cultural issues are thrust on libertarians, that is when you start to see the swing.
>>80337230
Gamergate wasn't until summer 2014. It was ancaps vs Nazis from 2013 until then.
The worst thing to happen to this board was Trump. Half of these people are from r/the_donald which is nothing like /pol/ no matter how hard they shill
libertarianism is a joke
thats why, a fucking JOKE. The Libertarian Party today is indistinguishable form leftists SJWs on social issues, they support open borders, and 90% of their policies are in regards to legalizing WEED.
Have fun with your meme ideology that will never gain traction
>>80336328
SJWs, ISIS, and BLM happened
>>80337135
>the planet goes through seasons therefor we must be responsible.
>i can see no god therefore i am in charge
your arrogant.
do you know what the downfall of most great societies is?
>>80336328
>I feel like GG was the turning point.
The SJW invasion provoked a response of a kind. Socialism inspired ideologies love to slice people up into groups and pit them against one another because they perceive this process to be the main agent of progress. If the identity "FUCKING WHITE MALE" is gonna be imposed upon us, by which I mean that this is the way others will think of us, then we will do with this identity what we will and will naturally try to defend it, since we will be included in it whether we want it or not.
Hence the alt-right. Now as to why it is libertarian precisely who reacted this way, it is because it was they who were most likely to react negatively against the collectivist lens imposed on them by the SJW ideology. At first the libertarian response to it was to deny the possibility of collectivized thinking all together, but as this line of argumentation has been found to be ineffective, pragmatic dictated that we made the collectivism in question our own, since it seemed to be used advantageously by the other parties.
There are some people who still reject this type of thinking in term of group, but they usually self describe as "classic liberals" and anti-SJW. They're not alt-right.
>>80337135
You can't prove any of the assertions you just made, you sure the board users are the ones with low IQ and not you?
>>80336944
I can buy that former libertarians may now believe
>It's become increasingly obvious that people literally want to exterminate straight white males,
But, as for
>and all the economic policy on the world doesn't mean shit when Muslims are raping your women and the thought police are silencing you for suggesting maybe we stop that.
Wouldn't the average libertarian see a situation like that and say something like "We shouldn't have thought police and there should be a free market of culture where no one fucking wants to follow the rape religion"
There wasn't much left after the defeat of Ron and Rand Paul, so Americans that knew they were anything but leftists basically moved away from failed libertarianism into the Alternative Right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUO9L577GS4
>>80337745
No.
>libertarian here.
free market of culture?
what the fuck.
no
whatever happened to you stay where you are and ill stay where i am.
most importantly don't go where you are not wanted?
>>80336721
Christ's sake, what is she edgy and pissed off about? The size of her feet? I guess I'd be pissed about that too.
libertarianism is for children
I only fell for it because I hated school and being told what to do and I wanted to be a special snowflake
>>80337745
>free market of culture
>islam
lmao
>>80336328
the main tension seems between wanting to have a free society and free market but also wanting tight border control to keep the swathes of freedom hating brownies out, I noticed a big shift with the refugee crisis in europe kicked into high gear
I'm not sure why they don't just consider border defense apart of property rights defense and see there's no tension in keeping unwanted people off your land
all the cultural tensions come from welfare tbqh since all these useless immigrants, degeneracy and crime factory single mothers can only behave that way because they state gives them money to pump out more kids
>>80337745
>free market of culture
>>80337949
>>80338042
>>80338112
That was a fucking dumbass way to describe it by me.
What I meant was what >>80337695 said,
>Hence the alt-right. Now as to why it is libertarian precisely who reacted this way, it is because it was they who were most likely to react negatively against the collectivist lens imposed on them by the SJW ideology. At first the libertarian response to it was to deny the possibility of collectivized thinking all together, but as this line of argumentation has been found to be ineffective, pragmatic dictated that we made the collectivism in question our own, since it seemed to be used advantageously by the other parties.
Also, >>80337695 seems like a pretty good answer to my question. Makes sense.
>>80337695
>self describe as "classic liberals"
I can assure you this is not a self descriptor, and it should not at all be surprising which race or religious group actually started using it. The idea, and it is flawed, was to separate them off and drive them to the right. However anyone who sees through this is relatively intelligent (though still bluepilled enough to be on the left) and all it does is cause infighting.
t. definitely not leftypol, i'm a pure blooded libertarian please believe me
>>80337695
This whole post makes sense. I can see why people would believe this.
I still don't understand most of the alt-right, though. Mostly >>80337633 types of folks. I'd like to, but I feel that's beyond the scope of this thread.
>Why did so many libertarians turn into alt-right fucktards?
Because it's currently the ultra progressive left that's seized enough power in the right places to fuck with the shit that said libertarians like.
So, it's natural that cultural battling would gain in prominence.
The ultra christfags by comparison aren't seen as a threat.
Compare that to how much the narrative on, say race and gender has shited in the last 3 years.
>>80336721
>tfw no redpilled qt3.14 stoner gf to smoke dank nugs with
>>80336328
Your right in that we believe the government should stay out of cultural issues, but that has become infected when they feel that immigration (mass) is a government issue (federal) and not a states right issue.
you make the assumption that the current culture is a product of non-government interference. when in fact we are combating a "progressive" agenda that seeks to eliminate the white race by mass integration into other societies no matter how degenerate they may be.
regardless.
why does this matter?
you obviously dont like us and we don't give a shit about the problems that your seeking to cause.
so.
like all libertarians
leave us the fuck alone and count us out of your petty frivolous bullshit.
>>80337745
That's really the point m8. Global free market only works if everyone follows the same rules to ensure fair competition. A communist slave-state like China, by it's very nature, does not follow those rules, therefore anyone else who does follow them will be taken advantage of.
Islam is the "free market of ideas" equivalent. Can't have a free market of ideas when one of the ideas is built upon killing anyone who criticizes it.
>>80338171
Self described classic liberals are people like David Rubin and other types of pseudo libertarian people (Sargon of Akkad) who had a split wit the rest of the left over Islam and identity politic on steroid.
They are still against the possibility of seeing themselves as belonging to a group and acting in the interest of said group. They are individualist at the core.
What's most likely to happen, however, is that they will realize more and more that the left rejects individualism and personal freedom which they reckon is a value system borne out of exploitation that exists solely to mask and protect the "privileges" of the dominant class. As this realization emerge, so called classic liberals will realize that they are confronted with an enemy which is effectively forcing them into a certain camp.
They thought they were in front of someone they could talk to but they're really standing face to face with a kind of aggressor who insists very much on seeing race and gender and analyzing social situations according to these units of measurement.
>>80338803
>Can't have a free market of ideas when one of the ideas is built upon killing anyone who criticizes it
and this.
>>80338492
The left has been controling the media for decades imposing its world view on the population.
The internet made it now hard for the mainstream media to control information. Use the migrant crisis for example. If there was no internet we would not know for the Cologne attacks and the.media would be shiling for the rapefugees.
GG was only a candle that started the fire.
It was only a time of when ppl start getting proper informations and open its eyes to reality. Instead of believing in a multikultopia.
>>80338486
I'm not sure if the mainstream narrative on race and gender has really shifted all that much. IMO, I just feel like two separate echo chambers collided, and each side thought that the other was the new "mainstream America". The BLM people think the average person is a 1776er, and the 1776ers think the average person is a BLM guy.
>>80338803
But wouldn't the libertarian response be to, you know, level the playing field and make everyone play by the rules? I'm not seeing why a libertarian would want to get rid of liberal equality thought police, only to replace them with "Islam sucks" thought police.
>>80337230
>The late Bush years
Bush had a 24% approval rating, of course everyone sounded liberal
Libertarian Alt-Right checking in. there's no contradiction. One focuses mainly on monetary policy and rights issues, the other is the cultural foundation needed for a mutually respectful society to work.
The big plus from libertarianism is the boost to trade and unmediated human interactions. But as Ayn Rand famously ignored, there's still the possibility of violence. Only a traditionalist, "alt-right" (which is really just reactionary) ethical context can truly optimize libertarian philosophy
TLDR its the two sides of the best coin
>>80338436
You have to understand that there is many people in the alt-right who have increasingly found themselves being put in the "shit bar".
It used to be that the only people who were in the shit bar were actually racist and neo-nazis. These people were positively proscribed from contributing to the discourse in general. Nobody wanted to see them and nobody had to hear of them. They were pariah. But as the social justice agenda became more and more aggressive, a growing number of individual got pushed into the shit bar. I got pushed into it because of Islam. It suddenly became "racist" to criticize an ideology who had all the flaws of christianity yet deserved none of the ridicule or scrutiny.
But of course, SJW didn't stop there and, soon enough, the "shit bar" part of town started to develop into its own fucking neighborhood, new element mixing with the old in a zone of complete freedom. Since it was just as bad for me to criticize Islam as it was to talk about race differences and diversity, there suddenly was no cost at all to thinking and talking about those thing among the people of who had been pushed into the shit bar.
Today, this particular discursive space (shit bar) is populated by old and new element. The old stock is what used to be rejected back in 2008-2013. The new stock is something different.
>>80336328
My guess is that they have similiar morality with reactionaries and reactionary propaganda is super effective to make them totalitarian fascist bootlickers.
>>80338772
This man is correct. The alt-right is dead OP. Not even the American's on this board believe in the founding father's vision anymore. They've decided to fight fire with fire (not implying they actually achieve anything in society or their own lives).
/pol/ has become the right-wing, male equivalent of Tumblr. Just another petting zoo for highly irrational, poorly educated citizens who are addicted to the internet.
>>80337169
That's not what national liberalism really is.
t. second biggest party is the National Liberal one
Alt right isn't a coherent ideology.
Its a fucking meme
>>80336328
Libertarianism was a meme for young white males during the early internet years before they realized just how much the media was against white males.
The entire world has shifted to identity politics, why you think whites wouldn't is delusion.
>>80339182
>I'm not sure if the mainstream narrative on race and gender has really shifted all that much.
How young are you? The shift since about 2013 has been incredible. Online media like Salon, HufPost and even now respected media like Guardian and NYT are heavily anti-white to the point of literally saying it without any double meaning or subtlety.
>>80337135
Iq meme that infographic was ridiculously generous to lit
>>80336944
This is exactly it. Hard to argue for a peaceful society when half your society is using state power to destroy everything that is meaningful to you.
>>80337169
Me too senpai
>>80336328
The tipping point was Ron Paul becoming a sellout to Romney, and Rand Paul SPASTICALLY attacking Trump over border control. That was the moment I went to Trump.
Pol hasn't changed much, though. Ultimately its about borders-n-guns, and freedom in general.
The modern libertarian party is anti gun, pro selling heroin to kids, and anti Christian bakeries, so fuck them.
>>80337610
(((Pure coincidence))))
>>80339305
I agree with all of this, but I'm pretty sure there's two separate shit bars. I highly doubt the average American has anywhere near the same low threshold for "shit bar"ing someone as the average tumblr user. If that were true, then Trump would have been given the shit bar by the vast majority of the populace. He probably wouldn't even have lasted much longer than Rand Paul, let alone won the Republican nomination, if that was the case.
IMO, it seems like there's two seperate kinds of shit bars. One that the SJW's put people into, and the other that the alt-right folks do. I mean, shit, look at this thread and see how many people tried to discredit the entire premise of my discussion because they thought I was a libertarian (I'm not). Imagine if I said in my post I was a SJW, jew, or shillary voter? IMO, it's the shitbarring on both sides that has totally fucked any hope of having a meaningful conversation about politics on the internet.
>>80336328
>Why did so many libertarians turn into alt-right fucktards?
Because 90% of them weren't genuine, they were just memers following a trend.
Ron Paul brought them. He brought the anti abortion nuts and the neo confederate racists. People dont realize it but he's been terrible for libertarianism. Eventuality he'll have to be denounced and the Paultards run out of the movement the same way conservatives had to get rid of the John Birchers..
Because the libertarians that went "alt-right" learned that the problems in society can not be solved exclusively through economic goals, and libertarians take pride in addressing everything exclusively through economic goals.
>>80340342
(You)
>>80336328
Hitler has proven one thing, he has right about racial politics. If any race is going to advance their politics based on race alone, whites should be a the front of the line, no questions asked. It's not about supremacy, it is our divine right to protect our land and our people.
The shift comes from the realization of how fucked we truly are.
"The nation-state is still the source of happiness." The Don
We have accpwted the governmwnt isn't going anywhere, so we have adopted authoritarian views so that order may be restored in this time of choas.
Some are memeing little shits, the meme magic shit makes me want to puke.
>>80339182
You take what you can. What's more free, 'anything you want but Islam' or 'anything you want if Islam allows it'? Some ideas are mutually exclusive.
Alt-Right is doublespeak for Nazism. That's it.
You can find libertarians everywhere on the internet still. But /pol/ became indoctrinated by Stormfront. Ron Paul /b/ was many years ago.
>>80336328
God forbid people stop being autists and start to notice demographic trends.
>>80340093
There's probably a pretty big overlap between the old shit bar and low IQ people who didn't have a whole lot of representation in the media outside of the republican party. What's surprising about Trump isn't his popularity among that demographic but the fact that there is a semi articulate crowd gathering around him and figures like milo and vox day. (Vox is pure alt right.)
As for the reason why we cannot hold a meaningful conversation with the opposition, it actually, I believe, boil down to the philosophical supposition each side makes. You'll notice that the way to left treat reality and language isn't the same as the way the right does. The left sees reality as being constructed by language and thus every speech act isn't so much a way to communicate information as it is a way to build reality. In that universe, the notion of true and false doesn't really apply. There is only the "social object" you construct and the power dynamic you embed within them.
This is why it's very difficult to talk with a modern day lefty. They don't use words the same way we do. If we say something which they perceive will perpetuate a certain power dynamic they may not like, they'll see us as being complicit in a system of oppression and exploitation, at which point they'll go for the jugular in a non discursive way.
This is part and parcel of the reason why these people consider speech aggression. A good example of this is the notion of rape culture. Rape culture is the idea that language and attitude generate a mindset whereby sexual violence against women (at the hand of the privileged ie. white men) is more likely. (There's a logical reason as to why it is always the "privileged" who are targeted.) In this view, language creates reality, creates the action of rape and sexual assault. Therefore, if you talk wrong about rape, you're complicit in rape culture and hence rape.
Of course, since speech causes rape, it becomes very important to control speech.
>>80340093
The majority doesn't do anything, they just follow the extremists. It is, in fact, a minority of society that ever makes anything happen, the majority just jumps behind the popular idea. All those psychopaths on college campuses and out in the streets can and do drag the bulk of society along without an opposing force.
>>80337606
libertarianism is pretty fucking easy to understand, if you're not a retarded little faggot. It's basically classic Republicanism re: small government, but leaving out the Christian morality bullshit.
Seriously, it's that simple. Small. Government. That's it, you illiterate nigger.
>>80340104
This. There are two types of people that are naturally attracted to Libertarianism: autistic diehard philosophers and completely drugged out conspiracy nutters.
The majority of the alt-right don't fit this at all. Sure you have a few conspiracy nuts here and there, but for the most part the alt-right is just young, dumb and angry males eager to take their frustration out on whatever they perceive to be the problem at the time. Now that there are recognizable leaders with a violent, meme-friendly message to rally behind, they've revealed themselves for what they truly are.
>>80337135
>most of them are christian
Slanderous. We worship Kek.
>>80339827
I'm pretty fucking old, pal. Old enough to know that Salon and Hufpo have been practically self parody since they started. The only difference is, you didn't have a giant collection of man-babies on /pol/ whining about how one guy said in an article on a site targeted at a specific internet subculture represented the decline of America.
And it's not just Hufpo and Salon. The Guardian, or any NYT article you find online, isn't the "mainstream" media. Anything you find online is geared towards millennials. A large chunk of the demographic that reads online news (hint: millennials, and a minority of the population) are much more receptive to SJW rhetoric. The demographic that watches news on TV and reads newspapers (non-millennials, aka "the mainstream") aren't as into it. That doesn't mean that some of them won't be receptive to ideas like "white privilege". Hell, fucking Newt Gingrich checked his privilege earlier today. http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trailguide-updates-1468001199-htmlstory.html
But, when CNN and Fox News are praising cop killers, that's when I'll think that the mainstream media is anti-white.
libertarians are autistic and retarded
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb8cErokGFs
they think "hurr get rid of le governmnet" is a legitimate cure all for the world's problems.
>>80337576
/pol/ was all about Trump MONTHS before /r/the_donald even existed.
reddit isn't shilling here. /pol/ is shilling on reddit.
>>80341036
libertarianism is just applied autism
http://reason.com/blog/2011/07/20/being-libertarian-may-cause-au
>>80337576
anything on earth is better than a retarded ancap
>>80336944
>>80336328
In germany at least the mainstream parties drifted to the left after the Liberterian Party (FDP) commited suicide by bad politics and the CDU under Merkel went full opportunistic.
This led to a vaccuum in the moderate right and helped the rise of the AfD.
I imagine in burgerland there happened something similar with cuckservatives.
For Internet libertarians however I think GG broke the camels back when they saw how radical SJW are and how it's getting more mainstream.
It's literally newkiddies being edgy. Funny thing is they don't even realize they're exactly what they supposedly despise: SJW's, but they think they're right wing, totally retarded.
>>80341638
>he thinks being right wing= being a cuck that is fine with being racially and ethnically destroyed by non whites
kek
>>80336328
Before GG, /pol/ was literally a Nazi board then the nazis got kicked out and went to cripple chan.
You sir, are a fool.
>>80341461
>that 1 shill who posts the same shit every thread using the same non arguments
Fucking kys.
>>80336328
"Everyone is equal and everyone gets a vote" sounds great until you realize women and niggers vote for stupid shit that ruins your country.
>>80341788
what is cripple chan?
>>80341758
Right wing is being against big government. End of story. Now go suck Moshe's circumcised cock shill.
>>80336869
>been here since 2013
Fucking newfag
>>80336328
I think libertarianism is on the decline because of Donald Trump. Usually you get a shitty democratic candidate and a shitty republican candidate, and you're just choosing between the lesser of two evils. This is not the case this time around; Trump is actually a good candidate and would make a good President. Many libertarians like Trump and know Gary Johnson can't realistically win. I also agree more with Trump's immigration policy.
It's not that the philosophy of libertarianism is on the decline, it's that nobody is dedicated to the party enough to not vote for Donald Trump.
>>80341795
because it's true
libertarians are the most autistic people on earth by a mile
>>80341882
kek you are literally retarded
the right began with monarchism
lrn2basichistory and not libertarian propaganda
>>80336328
Globalism, for or against, is the only issue of our time. The rest must fall to the generations who inherit the rubble.
Libertarians are not centrist. They've always been right wing in nature. Because capitalism, private property and freedom in general have to do with respecting the natural hierarchy of human society, which is a right-wing concept.
But since there are so many threats to liberty as of now―the Obama administration, Hilary Clinton, Black Lives Matter, ISIS and general Islamic terrorism, the European Union, SJWs directing how governments and corporations function and so on, the Right is becoming more and more militant. Hence the abandonment of traditional libertarianism (which by the way cannot work in a democratic context where taxes and welfare can be voted on by people who are inherently hostile to liberty) and the gravitation towards the far end of the right-wing spectrum.
>>80340907
I buy all of this, but doesn't alt-right kind of do the same thing? I mean, this logic:
>The left sees reality as being constructed by language and thus every speech act isn't so much a way to communicate information as it is a way to build reality. In that universe, the notion of true and false doesn't really apply. There is only the "social object" you construct
Isn't that the same logic that lots of alt-righters use to condemn liberal points as simple "virtue signalling"?
Personally, I think what you're talking about is the major problem politics faces in the internet era. No one can judge someone's ideas as simply ideas, they HAVE to attach some ideology to the idea. Then, instead of actually critically thinking about the initial idea in question, they have to argue PAST that and shit on other things they ASSUME that person believes, that have nothing to do with the idea in question. And that's not something that only liberals do. I mean, again, look at this fucking thread. Half the responses are people ignoring what I said and just going "lol OP's a lolbertarian lololol". How's that any different from an SJW ignoring someone's entire argument because they've found some tangential looped-logic way of calling them racist? And how are we supposed to have an actual fucking discussion if either of these dynamics exist?
>>80336328
>The alt-right philosophy seems to be entirely opposite to that. The logic seems to be "restore the social and cultural conditions of 1950s america and the economic and politic stuff will sort it self out".
libertarians kiddies who posted here grew up and realised that
>Freedom ain't free
>>80336328
A free society is dependent on circumstances it cannot guarantee on its own. Once you have uncontrolled immigration of cultures that do not care about a free society, you will no longer have one.
Ideologists like Ancaps tend to become radicalized very easily once they realize that their utopia doesn't work in practice. Look at all those "anarchist" revolutions that quickly turned into dictatorships.
>>80342101
>Libertarians are not centrist. They've always been right wing in nature.
Only in relation to communists, not in relation to anything else.
>>80342126
because appealing to libertarian cucks is pointless
you will say anything to avoid being called "racist" despite the fact the left hates you regardless of what you say
>>80341849
A place that can't be posted here due to the spam filter.
Have you considered googling it?
>>80336328
Que?
>>80342046
>he thinks being right wing simply means "preserving the social order"
Reminder that your actual autistic political compass that claims you can be right wing authoritarian or left win libertarian was created by an anarcho communist kike.
>>80342326
>autistic political compass
>t-the politica compass is wrong not me!!!!
>libertarian was created by an anarcho communist kike.
god you're fucking retarded if you think Rothbard created libertarianism
will the libertarian autism ever end?
>>80342508
>m-m-muh Rothbard
I bet the autistic kiwi wouldn't even know who this was without the file name.
>alt rightists are radicalized libertarians
>>80342046
>libertarians are the most autistic people on earth by a mile
There's literally nothing more autistic than telling people what to do when it doesn't actually affect you in any significant or realistic way. Not everybody has to feel like they're "part of the community".
>>80342293
But won't this board label me a cuck/sjw for anything I say that's even slightly egalitarian?
Is that it?
Everyone is either a racist or an SJW cuck, and everyone should immediately dismiss anyone who disagrees with them on anything?
Is this where critical thinking goes to die?
Good thread. Nice to see people who haven't swallowed the alt-right meme completely.
>>80342674
Libertarians are radicalised classical liberals.
>>80336328
because libertarian is a pipe dream as much as socialism. They're the same shit. I mean, alt-right is shit too, but at least is more grounded to reality. Anyway, They're gonna become straight conservative soon.
>>80342676
"MOM DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO" as a political ideology
>>80342293
What Ayn Rand didn't know at the time was that racial characteristics have a lot to do with "intellectual and characterological traits", as intelligence among other behavioral aspects in humans, is highly heritable.
Besides, Ayn Rand saw through the double standards of how the left sees racism in the following excerpt:
"Today, racism is regarded as a crime if practiced by a majority—but as an inalienable right if practiced by a minority. The notion that one’s culture is superior to all others solely because it represents the traditions of one’s ancestors, is regarded as chauvinism if claimed by a majority—but as 'ethnic' pride if claimed by a minority. Resistance to change and progress is regarded as reactionary if demonstrated by a majority—but retrogression to a Balkan village, to an Indian tepee or to the jungle is hailed if demonstrated by a minority." -
Return of the Primitive: The Anti-Industrial Revolution, 142
>>80342732
I mean, I don't think I've subscribed to any meme ideologies.
But I at least try to understand all of them.
And man, I just don't fucking get the alt-right half the time.
>>80342676
>it doesn't actually affect you
fucking up society affects you
>Not everybody has to feel like they're "part of the community"
That's right some of us are special snowflakes and strong independent men who don't need no society
Just ignore all the benefits you get from living in a (temporarily) white 1st world society
>>80342727
>Everyone is either a racist or an SJW cuck
Basically yes. Because in the modern world if you are white you're automatically racist and need to die according to the mainstream narrative. You must have missed that memo
>>80342126
>Isn't that the same logic that lots of alt-righters use to condemn liberal points as simple "virtue signalling"?
No. Virtue signaling is a concept developed by the right in order to explain the behavior of people on the left which they do not understand. They don't believe that reality is being constructed by it, it's just that they wonder why the leftist is doing what he's doing and they say "he gets a narcissistic kick out of doing this in public". I saw someone acknowledging their white privilege on facebook today. She (lol) studied in communication and "cultural studies". (ie. she's a parasite.)
I personally think that virtue signaling is very real. It affects the narcissist which, not so incidentally, loves identity politic and labels and despises anonymity.
As for the reply you got in this thread, they may have been poor but they weren't the result of the underlying ideology. I can link what the left is doing to Foucault, Edward Said, or Simone De Beauvoir, but I can't link a shitty answer on a meme board to anything other than ordinary shittiness.
The people here, as far as I can see, will always argue with you, no matter how poorly, in reference to an objective reality. Something is either true or false, either corresponds or does not correspond to something that exists outside themselves and independently of what social processes do. The left doesn't do that anymore and it's as a matter of properly understood leftist doctrine, not general shittiness.
In other words, people here may suck but they suck in an ordinary, normal way, not in a way that defies the use of language and our philosophical understanding of the concept of reality itself.
>>80342126
This has been the case throughout all of history. Societal progressions isn't the result of the bickering masses, but people continue to bicker regardless. Trying to argue out political ideology on the web is the single least influential thing you can do to change the course of society or your own life. It's also why libertarianism is not that big on the web: it's a relatively practical set of morals to live by, rather than a meme to vote for. Most of the tech industry, including the elite that are pretty much dictating the course of societal progression in the world currently (Google, Apple, etc.) fall towards libertarian ideology, and that's where the world is heading.
>>80342849
>What Ayn Rand didn't know at the time was that racial characteristics have a lot to do with "intellectual and characterological traits", as intelligence among other behavioral aspects in humans, is highly heritable.
Bullshit, she always knew.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uHSv1asFvU
That's why she supported her tribe/race (jews) over arabs.
>>80342508
>implying the compass is right when it says you can be against big government while simultaneously saying you are for it
>>god you're fucking retarded if you think Rothbard created libertarianism
I never said that.
>>80336328
>Pre-GG, the most popular ideology seemed to be libertarianism.
/pol/ was filled with Neo-Nazis pre-GG you moron. Libertarianism died with Ron Paul's failed Presidential bid.
>>80343047
It's more descriptive to call tech CEOs globalists and neoliberals
they won't go to bat for say, cutting payroll tax or ending government subsidy of wall street, but they will totally be fine with flooding the west with cheap immigrant labor and outsourcing your jobs to China.
>I'm socially conservative but economically liberal
>>80336328
>the left supports personal freedom, tolerance of property rights, civil liberties and privacy as well as ending corporate welfare
In the earlier days of pol, noseposting and JIDF detection truly did seem like satire. The people who really believed the memes were obvious and always there, but they seemed to be the minority.
I have no problem with nationalism and aggressive promotion of monoculture within a country, but the downright racism is clearly not satire anymore. Are some nefarious actors working pol to meme it into the ideology of their choosing? Was JIDF really Stormfront all along? wew rally makes u pensive.
>>80343136
>implying the "size" of the government is a scalar quantity
>>80343284
>it's bad to be a normal human being
>>80343056
>[...]because it's the advanced, technological, civilized country amidst a group of almost totally primitive savages who have not changed for years and who are racist and who resent Israel because it’s bringing industry, intelligence, and modern technology into their stagnation.
And is any of that wrong? Because if Israel were some European country amidst Muslim savages, I'm sure you'd support it too.
>>80336328
How long do you think a libertarian society lasts with open borders retard?
>>80343047
>Google, Apple, etc.
>Libertarian
Do you you even live on this planet. If you work for these companies and voice that you would vote for Trump you effectively lose your job. They shill for Hillary publicly AND privately.
t.siliconvalleyfag
As far as the party per se, it's always been marginal to the point of sheer irrelevancy. That suffices to dismiss it out of hand.
Libertarians needed to shift to the right substantially to be relevant at all. They needed, at the least, to question globalism more in all its rotten vacuity. I don't put that forth as an empty platitude. I mean that libertarians need, as Vox Day mentions - and as I have slowly over the past years since I've shifted views somewhat - adopt a broadly more reactionary stance on things like free trade (at least such that the matter has some nuance), immigration, and social order.
It turns out that the shitlordiest paleocon-affiliated libertarians were the most correct all along. The only other option aside from the right libertarianism is basically leftism with corporate worship and shekel hoarding. To most, that's no alternative at all; proper leftism is the plainly better option. I enjoy the company of right libertarians and consider myself of similar mind even if I don't know exactly what to call myself anymore; but of the rest, the vulgar libertarian, the base anarcho capitalist, the mutualist, the left libertarian, the liberaltarian who is generally a shitlib at heart - they are fools or worse.
>>80341155
Yes. Statist normies.
>>80342990
at no point did you make an argument for statism
statism is the ultimate power suppressing whites from only associating with whites
I'm voting trump but only to close the borders on this god forsaken welfare state
>>80343136
>muh right wing was never authoritarian
>literal monarchists pre French Revolution
>I never said that.
in retrospect you said an ancomm created libertarianism which is somehow even more retarded
>>80343284
the liberals agree with you economically you massive faggot
>open borders
>outsourcing
>globalism
>neoliberalism
they're on your side
>>80343411
we all became the memes and have all been memes for some time (and not just on /pol/)
>>80343279
Practical applications my friend. Don't refuse what is given freely.
>>80343427
I didn't say she was wrong for supporting her race.
But she is wrong for being a hypocrite like 99.9% of jews who support Israel.
>>80342293
>man's ... traits are produced and transmitted by his internal body chemistry
how is that wrong? last time I checked I want to fuck things because there's this testosterone chemical in my body
>>80342801
>mom don't tell me what to do
So that's nice to know, that you view yourself as everybody's mommy. It's really no wonder people think you're control freaks and don't want you to have any power, when you start with this frame of mind.
>>80342990
>fucking up society affects you
Nothing I do actually "fucks up society". Not an argument.
>That's right some of us are special snowflakes and strong independent men who don't need no society
I'm not a special snowflake, I just care about my rights and don't have to do what you say. Meanwhile, you and your kind openly admit to viewing yourselves as everybody's mommy. That's a special snowflake if I've ever seen one.
>Just ignore all the benefits you get from living in a (temporarily) white 1st world society
I'm not ignoring them, I think they're extremely overrated, and I don't think they're exclusive to a society run by control freaks.
>>80343497
Because Hillary supports free markets while Trump... opps.
>>80343533
"government" isn't going away
there is no way for complex human society to function without a state so whining and bitching about "statism" is pointless. You should put your efforts towards enacting state policy you agree with.
>>80336328
>>80336464
What willl libertarians do when niggers and spics vote away any possibility of anything resembling austrian economics? You either fight the demographics, or the cultural marxists win
>>80336328
nice slide thread
sure would be a shame if somebody saged it
>>80343914
>>80342862
It's just European style conservatism. When a countries welfare state gets too large, the right has to fuse socialism-lite with nationalism and it's own identity politics to survive.
Remember how there used to be a bunch of leftists on pol that would debate the libertarian/right? They're all pretty much gone now. They and the Ron Paul bandwagon are the alt-right now. Meme kiddies.
>>80337135
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289614001081
>Highlights
>Individuals who identify as Republican have greater probability knowledge
>Individuals who identify as Republican have higher verbal reasoning ability
>Individuals who identify as Republican have better question comprehension
>Cognitive ability’s effect on party identity works through socio-economic position
>>80342796
WHERE IS YOUR EAGLE?
>>80343753
>Free markets
What a joke, you really think Hillary supports free market?
Neither Hillary nor Trump do. In the actual real world Trump's policies are way more in favor of free market than Hillary's.
On the moral angle ostracizing anyone who is not in favor of your political ideology is truly "libertarian"
>>80343565
Is Gary Johnson the only person you can use for your anti libertarian propaganda?
Why don't you tell me some of Ron Pauls positions on the border, welfare, medicare and education?
>>80343730
>Nothing I do actually "fucks up society". Not an argument.
>Nothing I do
>I do
seriously why are libertarians so autistic? I'm not talking about you retard I'm talking about society as a whole. There are laws and policy we need in place to prevent society from being fucked up.
>you and your kind openly admit to viewing yourselves as everybody's mommy.
>Basic law and order means you live in a nanny state
like I said, pure autism
>they're extremely overrated
He said while he lived in his nice, rich, (relatively) safe first world country
seriously this autism is off the charts. Without democracy you just get monarchy or oligarchy. Abolishing this government just replaces it with a worse one.
If you ever did manage to somehow prevent government from forming for a short period of time you'd just be at the whim of whatever roving band of mercenaries happened by.
>>80336328
Libertardians are a joke. They're the despicable neutrals.
>>80336328
I supported Ron Paul, now I'm basically a fascist
Race redpill did it for me
>>80344272
>current nominee for the libertarian party doesn't represent the libertarian party but a retired former Republican who hasn't technically been in the party for two decades does
you heard it here first, folks
>>80344293
That's kind of a non sequitur. You can be a diversity skeptic yet still believe in libertarianism for the member within a society.
Libertarianism inside, border control outside.
>>80344079
Nice find.
>>80337135
>and /pol/ has one of the lowest average IQ's of any board on 4chan.
How can you know this? I'd love to see the evidence.
>>80344528
border control is "muh statism"
>>80336328
they realised freedom leads to degeneracy and the death of western civilization
>>80336328
Libertarianism needs to die
>>80344235
>TPP versus no TPP
No I think it's pretty clear if you understand basic economic theory. If you mean "free markets which should protect American jobs by using old school national socialist policy which aren't actually free markets", then sure, Trump is more in favor of free markets.
>ostracizing
You do realize this is /pol/, that that word both describes the way /pol/ behaves and the ideology it proposes at the same time, right?
Also I'm not a libertarian.
>>80344654
Sure and it violates the NAP, but that's why you restrict the NAP to citizens. I don't think the NAP has to apply to universally.
>>80344458
>what is infiltration
Here let me do it for you then.
1. Abolish the welfare state. The incentive to take a job at whatever wage available must prevail.
2. Establish a generous visitor work program. Once we solve the economic crisis by introducing sound money, demand for domestic and immigrant labor will rise.
3. Enforce the laws on the books with more border guards. Allow states and landowners to enforce the law and provide security assistance.
4. Abolish birthright citizenship for children of illegal immigrants. [Current U.S. citizens will not be affected. Instead, babies born to illegals after a future cutoff date will no longer gain automatic U.S. citizenship. They will still have citizenship in their parents’ home countries.]
5. End all federal mandates on the states to provide free education and medical care for illegal immigrants.
6. Free market healthcare and education.
Wow, what an idiot right? Fucken lolbertarians lol! xD
>>80344770
>B-b-but guns are good right? Rights over statistics, that's what you told me guys?
>>80344794
>restrict the NAP to citizens
if the NAP applies to all citizens doesn't that mean the government can't enforce laws or collect taxes?
>>80343497
This sort of thing among other distasteful or downright corrupt and morally and intellectually bankrupt shit I see washing out of corporations has made me cast a jaundiced eye at them far more than I used to as a wee libertarian. Even if I distrust the state, I appreciate that it is not always the greater threat over corporations in a given situation, though that does not necessarily justify expanding state powers.
>>80343533
Part of the problem with libertarians is that even if they understand that open borders and welfare states cannot coexist, they often see no higher principles. Open borders would be simply kosher without nanny states across the West, right? Speak nothing of the muddying of culture, race, and aesthetics.
>>80343047
u wot? Are they libertarians? They seem staunchly leftist to me. I may be biased since I see things from the perspective of a man who wants to preserve the West with some high standard of racial purity to maintain our inheritance. I don't see the hook noses at Google or Apple or whatever giving a shit about Western civilization. As long as they can get fat producing more plastic shit for idiots to drool over, they will be merry even if society falls apart around their ears. The Jew and the cosmopolitan fundamentally don't give a shit if they live in a place like Brazil or Mexico where the rich and middle class must live in walled compounds.
To their mind, fly over country, middle America (or the similar 'irrelevant' parts of Oz, England, and elsewhere) represent the barbarians in their midst. This is why it's vital that we purge this alien 'elite' of their influence before they run us into the fucking ground.
>>80342727
Racist? Why are you using retarded terms like that? Are you a mental babby?
>>80344921
Eh, no cunt. If you control for niggers and spics, the US has about the same rate of homicide as Belgium and some other shit countries.
>>80336328
>Posts on Keynesian vs. Austrian economics were probably the most popular debates
But that shit is boring. I like the new /pol/
t.100% Aryan
>come onto /pol/ before and have reasonable discussions with right wing individuals about certain issues
>come to /pol/ now and get called a cuck and a useful idiot
Dunno, lad, the meme's gone too far
>>80344528
Naw man, Libertarianism is too idealistic, I see the light now
When I look out at the US and I see how easily people are manipulated by simple marketing techniques and media manipulation, I lose my faith in human beings (even whites) being rational actors in a market system. Able to clearly pursue their own personal self interest, negotiate on their own behalf, logically lead their own lives....etc.
Human beings just aren't like this. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature. Because the base unit of humanity is not the individual, but rather the tribe.
A human can't reproduce, a tribe can. A human can't live forever, a tribe can. Most importantly a human can't withstand the overwhelming might of other tribes, a tribe can.
We, all of us, exist in the context of our environment and the people around us. If you take a German accountant out of his community and place him in ancient egypt, he will be the lesser. He won't be able to communicate with anyone, or form natural relationships with his neighbors. He won't be able to pass on his genes with any assurance that they won't be mixed away into oblivion.
Take a trout out of a stream in California, and dump him in the Hudson river. Is he the lesser?
Take a finch out of England and drop him in Africa. Is he the lesser?
We are not simply free floating entities disconnected from the world around us. All of us exist in the context of the larger society in which we are involved. This is the fundamental failing of libertarian ideals.
Race realism was really at the core of what pushed me to the right even further. Once I saw through lie that mass immigration from the third world would be anything but disastrous and that the media blatantly lies about race related issues, I couldn't sit around and NAP them to death.
>>80336328
More like "when did the left start embracing all this regulation?"
>>80337135
>and /pol/ has one of the lowest average IQ's of any board on 4chan.
>I only come here for humorous entertainment. It's like watching the retarded kids at recess trip and fall.
Says the one who takes every infographic as matter of a fact.
>>80345299
While I see what you're saying, even if it is presumptuous, it's unreasonable to expect a person to have a deep understanding of every relevant issue, there has to be some reference to infographic
We grew up.
lolbertarians are idiots. Simple as that.
They are dreamers. They are naive to think the people would be "just dandy!" if they were left alone. The people dont want to be left alone, the people need a strong government to fix problems. Most of the people these days xan't think their way out of a box. It even takes a strong government to regulate itself anymore.
Also, libertarians don't fight hard to defend their ideals. They try to get along with people, and they lose debates and elections that way.
Behold, the greatest rebuttal to libertarianism: actual human beings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRZZpk_9k8E
>>80341638
muh two sides of the same coin meme
sargon pls go
>>80344791
>TPP
Did you actually look at TPP policy?
basic economic theory is essentially based on centeris paribus which doesnt actually exist in our world. Smith's "free market" doesnt exist outside of nation state or even in nation states; another reason why libertarians are a meme.
/pol/ is /pol/
libertarians are libertarians
/pol/ =/= libertarians
>>80336328
It's reactionary more than anything, the left have been shilling all kinds of degenerate shit and that had pushed a lot of lads further right.
>>80344795
>infiltration
by who Mises? Open borders have been a talking point by cuckbergtarians for years
>take a job at whatever wage available
that's retarded if wages are too low to live on. There's a reason half the country is on government assistance now, mainly because wages are low thanks to the very same outsourcing and mass immigration libertarians support.
In reality the main reason to abolish welfare is to prevent this from happening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBqjZ0KZCa0
not your fucking low wage propaganda
>Establish a generous visitor work program
kill yourself for the love of god
yes let's make wages even lower than they already are
>sound money
muh shiny rocks
>more border guards
because it's been so effective now
>Abolish birthright citizenship for children
And retroactively revoke citizenship for anyone who is an anchor babby
> End all federal mandates on the states to provide free education and medical care for illegal immigrants.
this is a no brainer
>Free market healthcare and education.
I'd say breaking up the insurance cartels and a subsidy system for lower income families would be fine. Same thing with vouchers for education.
Regardless this is all pointless since this isn't the Libertarian Party's current official policy.
>>80344921
yes I forgot the amendment in the constitution that lets you drive drunk
>>80336328
What's funny about wanting the culture back is that degeneracy is a Pandora's box, it isn't going back in. Go give Yuri a listen again and understand the the end came 30+ years ago. Outside of gigantic death camps it is not going to happen, and even if it went that far there would be those that survive to start it all anew.
>>80336328
Because I'm not a cuck
>>80345672
This image is great, how have I not seen it before
>>80344921
Name me one part of constitution that says "The right of the people to drink and drive shall not be infringed."
>>80345953
Hello ally of greatest ally
>>80345057
This is funny, because if this is truly what you think, then you should be placing the blame on libertarianism.
Look, there's honestly too much there to respond too. I just don't see how you can have such a warped sense of reality?
>This is why it's vital that we purge this alien 'elite' of their influence before they run us into the fucking ground.
You clearly don't understand how the world works, do you? You are getting poorer, but the rest of the world is getting richer. Far richer. The middle class in countries like our's are being eroded, yes, but not because the world is turning to shit. When American's lose their jobs, the Chinese gain them, and they start receiving the money you would have. Hence American wage stagnation correlates with billions of people in China being lifted out of poverty and into the middle class.
I guess people on this board do realize this, but they believe they can change it. Trump is either lying or completely delusional when he promises that he can change this. You can't force wealth to appear in the economic situation western nations are in.
What is happening however is that your wage stagnation is being counter-balanced by the efficiency in emerging economies. So although most development nations are producing shit all, and therefore you should be living like dogs, you in reality aren't. You are moving in the dog direction, but there's seriously nothing much you can do about it.
>>80336328
>freedom is intrinsically good
>many imperfectly rational agents with wildly varying wants and desires will necessarily bring about the most efficient, productive, or mutually beneficial situation through entirely voluntary means
>all people are equal
Why are libertarians so retarded?
>>80345066
>Poo in loo
>100% aryan
Try somewhere else pal
>>80346018
Those rights enumerated in the constitution are not inherently more good simply because they are in the constitution. They ought be judged on their own merits as rights, on the reasons why they should or should not be rights, and the benefits and harms coming from them being rights.
That being said, the right to bear arms is a useful one, if possibly dangerous and destructive for the potential for rebellion.
>>80346018
I'm not a libertarian. I'm not giving an opinion either, just pointing out what I think is the irony.
>>80346250
But Russians are literal mongrels
>>80336328
Many Libertarians turned into SJW Bernie supports too.
>>80336328
Maybe because they found that individualistic libertarianism presumes there isn't an organised movement of totalitarian death worshippers out to end them all, so they came together in self-defense. Coming together in self-defense also happens to be a trait within the libertarian movement.
>>80345057
Corporations and governments are both collectivism. All forms of collectivism are morally and intellectually bankrupt. This is why a checks and balances system is needed for both.
Individuals can be corrupt but its either or, in a system it only takes a few to fuck over an entire system.
Watch the following educational video OP. It has the answers you seek.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jcUZrDX5P7A
>>80336328
Libertarians are even more blue-pilled than leftists. At least leftists know the value of violence and authoritarianism, they just pretend they are not violent authoritarians.
Libertarians on the other hand, are truly dumb enough to believe that violence is bad, that people deserve anything let alone freedom and that we all can live in an egalitarian harmony.
They may be skeptical of government, but that just makes them useful idiots to which ever political wing is playing the role of the rebels.
>>80346616
Collectivism is the proper and natural form of affairs for man, and it is arrogant to presume that any and every plebe can competently fulfill his own desires, or that doing so isn't harmful to his peers at large.
That being said, there are obvious logistics, communications, and decisions issues that plague heavily centralized authority, and although these can be somewhat mitigated by technology, are still problems.
The obvious solution is relative autonomy for the citizen to pursue their wants, but the power for authority to adjust and manipulate incentives and disincentives for the benefit of all, alongside the normal function of solving collective action problems.
TL;DR: Libertarians are as extremist as totalitarian communists, and both are cancerous to the extreme. Neck yourself.
Because collectivist ideologies are stronger than individualist ones, and desperate times call for desperate measures
I guarantee if we were all living in economic good times in 99% white countries we'd still be libertarians
>>80346952
there's a good reason why all formerly non state societies have been replaced by state societies
the centralized states are more powerful and always win in the end
>>80346839
fucking amazing
>>80346071
That whole element of zero sum eludes a whole lot of libertarians who believe that the service economy is spectacular, that it's sustainable. Even though that this flies in the face of the fact that any shock in energy prices or geopolitical stability will cause a massive hit to all of the [essentially] deindustrialized West, who've got only a fraction of the tooling they once possessed. Global trade in the libertarian world view, despite the inherently finite resources we have to work within, is supposed to be a net positive game.
>You clearly don't understand how the world works, do you? You are getting poorer, but the rest of the world is getting richer. Far richer.
Don't patronize me, ozcunt. It's a race to the bottom. Capital chases the cheapest labor and the process repeats. China hasn't even fully industrialized their country and they're already starting to outsource some of their industry to parts of SE Asia.
The other reason for stagnating wages and GDP is demography. It has to do with both the influx of submarginal people and our aging native population, aging because fertility rates are low and there are more old than young now. None of these are good for growth or sustainability. When the system is trying to hold up four pensioners on the backs of two workers, it falls to pieces.
>You are moving in the dog direction, but there's seriously nothing much you can do about it.
Well, no. Unless we are so fated, there is a simple recipe to reverse it, at least in theory: demographic health and heavy industry. These are the means by which the West rose to the top in the first place, and the means by which we will likely rise again.
>>80347117
It's not that they're more powerful, but they're also more stable (as a consequence of that power).
Stability begets comfort, and comfort begets risk.
Risk begets progress, and progress begets civilization.
For the price of some freedom, you are given the environment and potential tools to act upon your remaining freedom in even greater ways, and hopefully as a much better person thanks to said stable environment, and the civilization created by your ancestors.
Freedom should not be considered personal sovereignty, but rather the autonomy to do what you ought to do without oversight and coercion.
>>80336328
Because Johnson wanted to do libertarian policies with open borders, which is suicide. Add pro-amnesty to that, and we have turbo suicide. More libertarians popped up that were nothing more than lolbertarian versions of liberals and started co-opting it. More actual libertarians started going along with their stupid, more feels than thoughts, approach, bullshit.
Then, the stupid SJW libtard bullshit started trickling into my personal life. They had brainwashed my friends and some of my family.
Friends that were rational and analytical became emotionally reactionary faggots.
Not homosexual faggots. Just faggots.
I can tolerate the stupid when they keep to their own circles. but when they start infecting hosts and multiplying like a virus, I'm done playing around.
>The logic seems to be "restore the social and cultural conditions of 1950s america and the economic and politic stuff will sort it self out"
and this is why you're a lolbertarian and not a libertarian. The economy situation is like a bubble that is only going to grow larger before it pops, and the resulting collapse will be worse and worse the longer it is kept from happening.
Better to cut our losses now than have it build up more and be even more disastrous.
Because they realized there have to be borders or muslims will come and use the freedom to kill you and establish a califate.
>>80346952
you are absolutely right
i was trying to imply that gov is a strong c/b for corporations. Without gov intervention in the market we get some serious damage to the country/population. Pure cap is just like a fascistic gov without c/b.
It rarely works in practice and only from an individualist perspective.
BRB tying hangman's knot
>>80347662
>you are absolutely right
Then why did you call collectivism intellectually and morally bankrupt?
For all the rational and a priori arguments against it, it is evidentially an extremely strong and superior system, at least without choking under its own bloat.
>>80336328
/pol/ has actually only gotten good in the past couple years, I remember it used to be filled with actual retarded white supremacists from storm front talking about long debunked scientific studies on skull shape and shit
I'm glad we have shed that and become somewhat respectable now
>>80336328
Libertarians realized that the only way your gonna get a libertarian government is by removing non-whites.
>>80336944
>It's become increasingly obvious that people literally want to exterminate straight white males
And yet all i see on here is posts about killing niggers
>>80347811
because it is inherently, ALL collectivism is. Thats why c/b exists.
>extremely strong and superior system
100% it gets things done and is more effective. Although corruption is what causes the issues and may take decades+ to fix. In certain circumstances its worth sacrificing efficiency for the prevention of corruption.
>>80347420
>demographic health and heavy industry. These are the means by which the West rose to the top in the first place, and the means by which we will likely rise again.
You just agreed that capital chases the cheapest labor. So how do you want to compete with China with industry? How do you want to compete with China in the service industry either? Wait till American's become poorer than the Chinese? Also, the fact that this is even happening is proof that demographics have little to do with it: demographic health proceeds industrial success, China being a prime example.
>a simple recipe
I get how /pol/ hypes this meme for comfort, but the fact that you've actually come to believe it, despite there being nothing but memes and ms paint infographics to justify it, is absolutely hilarious. This is why I'll keep lurking and always deep down love you guys...
4chan is ultimately comprosie d of contortionists who just want something tor ebl against. When it was orgifinally /new/ it was near the start of the obama administration right? Or was it still Bush? Because the hip thing then was the right spying on people and shit so libertarianism was the composite of that to rebel. Now after 8 years of obama and social justicae becing shoved down everyone's throats and the right just taking it like bitches the best way to rebel against that is the alt-rigth
>>80348314
>because it is inherently, ALL collectivism is. Thats why c/b exists.
checks and balances don't make it any more or less immoral, anon. Either it is, or it isn't.
It is not.
/pol/ used to be a Neo-nazi board with a majority of white supremacists, nationalists and right wing socialists. Some however mixed in economic liberty eventually.
This is where the arguments between Keynesianism and Austrian economics deprive. Those left wing economically saying that capitalism erodes the culture, while those for Austrian economics extolling its efficiency and compatibility with the USA.
Slowly more people were attracted and converted, the nazis and radicals of this Board started to mock themselves for humors sake. This is 4chan after all. Some posts actually blaming Jews other only ironically blaming Jews. These were always very obvious to spot.
More people came, eventually confusing the ironic for the sincere, either believing all is ironic or all is true creating a false image.
Many were converted but did not go fully into the common beliefs, they agreed with the economics but not the culture but some of the racial aspects. This lead to the board being filled with libertarians, racially conscious libertarians. as times have gone on the libertarians of this board have recognized that the cultural previously extolled is needed, making them into full on cultural authoritarians.
Donald Trump was the final straw, plunging the libertarians off the deep end back into authortitarianism and nationalism. Once again making dominant debates about Keynesian vs Austrian economics front and center. Trump mixing Keynesianism with general right wing economic has changed how many voters think.
Ultimately because of trump this Board is returning back to its original nature, only now with the addition of much more spam and detractors.
>>80345672
lol that pic
>>80348480
Ok I'm going to try this again but my brain is fried tonight.
4chan is ultimately comprised of contrarians who just want something to rebel against. When it was originally /new/, it was near the start of the Obama administration, right? Or was it still Bush? Either way the big thing in govt had been the right spying on people and such, in a post-911 thing. Libertarianism was a kind of mirror of that at the time, to rebel against it. Now after 8 years of Obama, and social justice being shoved down everyone's throats, and the right just taking it like bitches, the best way to rebel against that is the alt-right.
tl;dr It's popular so we hate it
>>80348703
That isn't true. The politics of 4chan have always been anti-gay and anti-black
4chan has always been about hating bad minorities.
I've been here since 2006. It went from apolitical, racist and homophobic to right wing.
>>80348840
>4chan has always been anti-gay
>the website that launched the careers of several trap pornstars is anti-gay
>>80336328
Listen up you two bit limp wristed anarchist, libertarianism was only ever popular here because it was something else. Do you even recall thread upon thread upon thread of people calling themselves libertarians and arguing with each other over what they thought constituted being a libertarian? People flocked to it because it was a somewhat viable 3rd party and no one ever believed someone far right would ever actually be a viable candidate. Now that this has happened no one gives a fuck about your faggy little ideology.
>>80348908
>The website which has normalized the term "faggot" is pro-gay
>>80348840
Because being anti-gay and anti-black has always been counterculture. I have been here since there was still a lolicon board. 4chan is largely about doing what normies hate
>>80348955
If anything, 4chan ripped a lot of the meaning out of faggot. Can't really be all that offensive if fucking everyone is some variety of fag.
>>80348957
You've been here but you don't understand it ya damn normalfag.
People didn't come here and try to do things that piss normalfags off, people who aren't normalfags tend to have similar interests and thought patterns so they gathered here and allowed their thoughts to run free.
>>80343526
you type like a massive fucking faggot
>>80348549
im retarded, its not inherently
but in practice it is
>Either it is, or it isn't.
You dont even need a small minority to be considered corrupt.
If a person is 50/50 moral/immoral as your organization grows what is the chance that all peoples are moral
you need more than just a majority to prevent corruption in a group and that majority in of itself is subject to it.
checks and balances dont make it more or less immoral but it is the tool we use to prevent and eliminate immoral practices. Its not perfect by far I would welcome a better system. Waiting till we implement the Sibyl system to our benefit.
>>80336328
>Why did so many libertarians turn into alt-right fucktards?
Immaturity.
>>80336328
I realized libertarianism is very similar to """"pure"""" communism, a fantastical ideology that can never work without the perfect perquisites
>>80349080
You seem to be under the impression that nobody ahs ever changed their thought pattererns since they started coming here but that is wrong. The site culture is very much against what normies like and you see it all the tiem. WHenever something becoems popular people steadily turn against it. Even if it's just a shitty meme that got posted around or whatever. Once it's mainstream it sucks. The same goes for political opinions. If /pol/ is still around in 8 years it will probably see a surge of more moderate or even left-wing posters after 8 years of a right-wing government
>>80349199
Are we playing spot the nigger again?
>>80338832
>What's most likely to happen, however, is that they will realize more and more that the left rejects individualism and personal freedom which they reckon is a value system borne out of exploitation that exists solely to mask and protect the "privileges" of the dominant class.
This is what happened to me
>>80336328
>I'm asking because I've been browsing /pol/ since it was called /new/, and I feel like I've witnessed a pretty giant swing in the average /pol/ack's ideology.
Flags were introduced which turned /pol/ into an /int-b/ hybrid and the few people who had the patience for actual discussions left
correct me if i'm wrong
>>80336328
I'm guilty. the answer you seek rhymes with booze.
>>80349418
i guess government regulated economy, and special treatment for selct corporations should be included
>>80337230
Sounds like the voting system in america is fucked up and always suppress some side too hard.
>>80348840
> The politics of 4chan have always been anti-gay and anti-black
There's gay shit all over tthis site. There's four gay boards. Five if you count /d/ there's always trap threads on /b/ and /a/ has gay threads daily
>>80336328
I started coming here in 2013, and this place blew my mind at first. There was a high level of intellectual discussion going on. People sourced their claims and made real arguments for complex ideas, and their ideas were pretty... Unusual (hitler was right, Jews ect.).
Now /pol/'s interests are pretty much anti-liberal and anti-mainstream politics. Anti-globalism too. The intellectual discussion is gone. Today's /pol/ reminds me of old /b/, just high energy memes. Not necessarily a bad thing, I like old and new /pol/
>>80349729
Guess why traps are called traps?
>>80336328
No, libertarians were already disappearing by the time GG rolled in. In mid-2014, /pol/ was in its Christian Conservative "phase". Later, hardcore Stormfags left to the other chan, and after /pol/ recovered from moot's antics, it became /Trump/.
>>80347817
>skull shape
>debunked
Wew Shiggy
>>80349729
It may be true that 4chan is filled with gay now, but that is not true about /b/ I've been on 4chan since 2006. Traps and gay were never common on /b/ until recent years and /a/ was always a bunch of elitists with sekrit klub memes.
The dominant culture on 4chan has always been anti-gay and anti-black
>>80349967
/b/ was always highly derogatory towards faggots
>>80350043
Do you think they care? They get off on you calling them faggot. That's why they're still here.
>>80336328
Same reason Stephan Molymeme is edging closer and closer to natsoc positions, because he realizes that a libertarian society doesn't work when it's filled with cultural groups that are inherently antagonistic toward each other.
>>80336328
Libertarianism is born out of the equality meme, and rely on behaviour being learned and not genetic.
Libertarians that accept reality and look up the relevant data and statistics automatically turn to genocidal fascism, the logical end of political thought grounded in reality.
>>80349781
Because they're men who dress like women and put things in their ass on cam aka fags
>>80336328
>all the good things on the left aren't actually supported in any way by the modern left
This is why, OP.
The left has usurped power and radicalized. It can't be overpowered just with economic common sense.
>>80336328
Immigrants are destroying Liberty.
We can't have Liberty if we don't ensure that America remains a people whose culture prioritized Liberty.
That's the shitty thing about democracy.
If we had a fascist dictator and a clearer, stronger constitution who demanded Liberty reign in spite of the wishes of the fearful people, I'd be more ok with more open borders.
But since we're a democracy, third world shitty people have been moving here and they're stupid and they're voting to expand government and welfare in huge numbers.
If we don't stop this shit, Liberty in the USA will die. We must preserve our culture to preserve Liberty. I could care less about race, but we need to instill in all citizens a love of freedom, and force legal immigrants to assimilate and adopt the same ideals.
>>80349775
>There was a high level of intellectual discussion going on.
I blame the anti-Trump shills that have shown up since this time last year. Essentially they bait with strawmen and one post twitter shit and turn decent discussions into trash.
The whole Jew debate has downgraded to adding the echoes ((())) to anything /pol/ doesn't like and the accusation that something is "degenerate" has replaced any reasoned argument.
R O A D S
O
A
D
S
>>80349967
That doesn't stop there from being interracial shemale threads on /gif/ that get tons of replies and none negative just people fapping and asking for sauce
>>80336328
>Why did so many libertarian fucktards turn into alt-right fucktards?
Fixed it for you.
Libertarians tend to be silly billies.
>>80350356
Now that you understand maintaining a specific culture have value, your next step is understanding culture is the gestalt of the behaviour of the individuals, and since behaviour is genetic, culture is genetic.
You cannot import violent, backward people, whose many children will be backward and violent people too, and not expect your culture to not become backward and violent.
>>80350356
>Immigrants are destroying Liberty
Are you native American? If not you're an immigrant
>>80350432
/pol/ doesn't even discuss the Jews anymore. It's literally just a meme to them now.
New /pol/ probably has a better influence on the internet than old pol though
>>80349086
i thought it was an okay post
>>80337230
So then if you hate Trump you're either a libtard or a cuckservative which is it.
>>80350649
So they switched from Jews and niggers to just niggers. what's the difference between r/niggers and this then? This board is a joke
>>80336328
there is no alt-right. old neocons tried to turn liberal. if you uphold actual conservative values they try to act like its something new and say your alt-right
it doesnt matter what for a message is in its what it means. memes, bible passages or a angry rant its all the same
>>80350779
We have a frog worship cult.
>>80350615
Exactly francebro. I was a hardcore Libertarian. Now I love Liberty still, but I recognize the importance of culture and homogeneity.
>>80350641
That's the most retarded meme ever. 0/10.
>>80350641
>le jewdit we are all immigrants meme
Fuck off.
>>80345563
Good infographics supply sources rather than lines of bullshit
>>80336328
Libertarians stayed libertarian, they just play along sometimes because people are generally sheep and follow trends. I think the alt-right fucktards are relatively new.
>>80336328
I am a libertarian, around the world especially in the UK there's no real sense of libertarianism or any kind of stregth behind a libertarian party, so you tend to pick what is the next best or closest thing to closest match your values.
Right now the alt right are the closest thing, the so called rise of the cultural libertarians and Milo puts it. The upcoming divide between left and right I feel will become less significant and elections will start to be won on liberty vs authoritarianism.
Even the dumb lefty twats are starting to rebel against authority in some senses, of course they want to use the government to control a lot of things but they also want the government out of their own lives, look at gay marriage and all that kind of thing.
The alt right are the first real gathering of people who can be taken seriously, who can oppose the government being so left wing, they can oppose how far left the pendulum has swung without any of the baggage of the old right like religion and outdated ideas like that.
